The Register is reporting that Microsoft recommends that you NOT install the recommended .NET Framework 4.7 update:
Earlier this month, Microsoft gave the world .NET Framework 4.7 and urged users to install it for the usual reasons: more fun bits to play with and a security improvements.
But two days later the company urged Exchange users not to install it ASAP, because it hadn't validated it yet. Last Friday - 10 days after the launch of the new code - it reminded users of Lync and Skype for Business not to install it either.
[...] "We are in the process of validating Exchange Server on the .NET Framework 4.7, but the work is not yet complete".
While that validation is happening, "please delay this particular .NET update on your Exchange servers".
If you followed the original recommendation and installed the framework, and now wish to follow their new recommendation, then Microsoft recommends you follow these instructions to roll it back.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Monday June 26 2017, @02:15PM (28 children)
It's easier to roll up a Linux From Scratch system...
Why the hell can't MS put out a roll-back machine to do it for us?
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @02:30PM (21 children)
If microsoft has published this in the *RELEASE* channel of its update service, as a RECOMMENDED UPDATE, then AFTER THE FACT stating that it hasn't been QA'd with some of its MOST CRITICAL BUSINESS SUBSYSTEMS, what does that say about Microsoft's capability of handling 5 9s corporate infrastructure, whether from the development, maintenance or support angles?
People, especially beancounting people consulting with their IT staff, should really take some time and mull that, then begin investigative processes withing their own company to decide if Microsoft is in fact worth the money they are spending yearly for support, and multiyearly for upgrades. Because Windows doesn't seem to be providing the platform and services it has in the past, even as bad as some of those platforms and services WERE.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @02:40PM (17 children)
The place I work depends on a mission-critical Windows-only software package. :(
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @03:10PM (1 child)
"mission-critical" and "Windows-only" are probably two phrases that don't belong together in the same sentence.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @04:07PM
Windows-only is not suitable for mission-critical situations.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by LoRdTAW on Monday June 26 2017, @04:00PM (9 children)
That's the biggest problem with trying to move away from MS. Web backends have thankfully been able to shake loose the grip of MS. But desktops and local infrastructure tend to always need MS in some capacity. The big culprits are productivity software, engineering software, and ERP software.
And I'm just going to say it's probably too late to push MS out. The desktop platform has stagnated thanks to the boom in mobile and web development. The only other serious contender is Apple who is in no way better and in some ways, worse. Linux had it's chance but blew it because it never had a clear goal or product (it was more DIY than turn key). Compared to Windows, Linux is a huge mess that most people, even competent programmers, don't want to bother with. So where does that leave us? Right back at the start. Windows just works and convincing people to move elsewhere is pretty much pointless.
(Score: 2) by butthurt on Monday June 26 2017, @06:56PM (5 children)
> The only other serious contender is Apple [...]
I notice that the story posted just before this is about Chromebooks.
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Monday June 26 2017, @08:22PM (4 children)
That article is about installing Linux on a chromebook. I am talking about the push to rid MS from the desktop. I'd love to see it happen. But most developers I know are either happy with Windows or switched to Apple. Mention Linux and you get nothing but Linux sucks comments or rants.
Not everyone wants to mess with an OS. And most developers I meet don't give two shits about the OS. They want a platform where they can crank out code. Apple and yes, even MS gives them that. It sucks but that's the way things work. The usual line is: "I tried that Ubuntu thing but it didn't have x." x being a commercial software package. That or some piece of hardware didn't work properly or at all (wifi anyone?). That's where Apple comes in. It gives them just enough of the icky Unix bits with a slick UI so they can ssh into their node powered iot web 4.0 servers while running photoshop. That's what they want. They don't care about kernel this, desktop environment that, systemd rants, etc. They just want to turn their computer on and get to work.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @09:02PM (1 child)
That's a short-sighted mentality. The main reason many pieces of hardware don't work on GNU/Linux-based operating systems is because of non-free proprietary user-subjugating software; hackers are forced to reverse engineer, which takes time. I guess these useless developers can have fun living in their prisons, as slaves to proprietary software.
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Monday June 26 2017, @11:49PM
Jaded.
Fine. I get it. Proprietary this and that. But I'll be honest and say that was more of an issue 15 years ago when I first started playing with Linux (ISA sound cards anyone? ,[shudders]). It's 2017 and I rarely find hardware that doesn't work save for a few wifi cards and niche/odd ball hardware. Everything else pretty much works out of the box.
So if Linux is ready for the desktop where are the applications? Linux isn't an application. And that's the biggest problem for Linux: no one cares about the OS, get it? It has nothing to do with proprietary, freedom, liberty, libre, or any other feel good bullshit. If that really mattered to people we'd all be running Linux or some other open source OS. The OS doesn't matter. The applications do. And they're all on Windows where they've been for the last two or three decades. Whats the incentive to start over for Linux?
Stop being so dramatic. Some of these people are making north of $100k in their "prisons". I don't see any slavery in that salary. Some people are doing better than me writing fucking java script code in an SSH session from their MacBook Pro shaped prison.
(Score: 2) by butthurt on Monday June 26 2017, @11:58PM (1 child)
It seems I didn't clearly communicate my thought. The other article reminded me of Chrome OS, which is backed by Google. With Samsung, Dell, LG, H-P and Lenovo offering computers with Chrome OS pre-installed, it strikes me as a "serious contender" in the desktop computing arena. From what I've heard, it's suitable for those who prefer not "to mess with" the operating system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromebook [wikipedia.org]
> That or some piece of hardware didn't work properly or at all (wifi anyone?).
The nice thing about Windows is that all the hardware works without hassles.
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Tuesday June 27 2017, @12:08PM
Ah, I see what you mean.
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Tuesday June 27 2017, @04:52AM (1 child)
Nonsense. Linux on the Desktop has two problems, neither of which has to do with the system as such:
Note that this problem is gradually getting better, albeit slowly.
Note that the situation is completely different on the server side, which proves that the system as such isn't the problem.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday June 27 2017, @08:33AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Tuesday June 27 2017, @04:57AM
Don't worry, Microsoft is working hard on catching up to Apple in its badness.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Monday June 26 2017, @07:11PM (3 children)
My hope is that companies which absolutely depend on Windows for mission-critical stuff will end up being destroyed by this dependency, driven out of business when MS goes just a little too far somehow and causing those companies downtime which results in their failure.
It's the only way to really unseat Windows in the business market.
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Monday June 26 2017, @07:43PM (2 children)
Hope is the keyword. I find Windows in places it doesn't belong. We bought a new Trumpf Laser workstation last year. I don't know what runs on a Siemens SINUMERIK 840 but the two Beckhoff systems in it run Windows embedded. One runs the UI for everything on a Beckhoff embedded PC, the other is a CX9020 embedded automation controller that has EtherCAT IO. The only upside is the vision system that connects to the IP camera on the laser head is running what looks like redhat (can tell by the kernel boot screen) with a custom UI.
Though here are a few automation companies that use Linux out of the box: Opto22, Delta Tau, MKS Instruments, Phoenix Contact, WAGO, and a few others. Some offer Linux support such as Advantech, Kontron, and other embedded vendors. Even Beckhoff who are complete wintel whores, offer the CX9020 with the option to boot Linux off an SD card. But that does not include any software support beyond a github repo nor will it run their TwinCAT automation software which is all windows based.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Monday June 26 2017, @09:32PM (1 child)
Well yeah, hope is all I can offer at this point. Hopefully Win10 will turn out to be a complete disaster for embedded/industrial control applications like this, forcing huge losses on companies that use it. If they're not smart enough to use something else (maybe Linux, maybe some other RTOS), and the companies buying this big-dollar equipment aren't smart enough to demand better, there's nothing anyone else can do.
However, not having that much contact with systems like this, how much does it matter that it runs Windows? Most importantly, is any of this stuff networked? If not, it's not that big a deal aside from the horrible UI of Win10.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday June 27 2017, @08:40AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by KritonK on Tuesday June 27 2017, @08:30AM
Test the software package, to see if it runs under wine. You may be pleasantly surprised.
My take on this is that if there is no Linux version of a program or a Windows version that runs under wine, then there is NO such program, period.
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Monday June 26 2017, @02:42PM (2 children)
Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM^H^H^H Microsoft.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Monday June 26 2017, @05:08PM (1 child)
Maybe not fired, but not displaying external signs of deep devotion to the Apple cult is a career hindrance in some trendy circles.
You ain't one of us, boy...
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Monday June 26 2017, @07:15PM
Trendy circles:
* Creative types working in media
* No nothing makers and IoT trend followers
* web dev's
* indie game crowd
(Score: 2) by RamiK on Monday June 26 2017, @02:42PM (2 children)
No one's running Exchange bare-bone anyhow so what's the point?
compiling...
(Score: 2) by NCommander on Monday June 26 2017, @09:46PM (1 child)
You can't safely rollback an Exchange VM because it will get out of sync with AD and often crap itself in ways that are difficult at best to fix.
(it's a similar story to if you rollback an AD controller when you have multiple ones; the dreaded invalid SID error).
Still always moving
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @10:26AM
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/dd877016(v=exchg.140).aspx [microsoft.com]
(Score: 2) by seeprime on Monday June 26 2017, @04:20PM
Have you ever tried to unroll baked spaghetti?
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday June 27 2017, @08:55AM (1 child)
Our biggest fear at $DAYJOB is rollbacks, we never want any of our $$$-paying clients to have to do one. If one client rolls back, we have to further branch our release tree, and we simply don't have the staff or time to manage that complexity. Fortunately, ``git revert'' is moving forwards, so if we can get reverts out quickly enough, everyone thinks we're moving forwards all the time, even if we've shipped them a few bugs briefly.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday June 27 2017, @09:00PM
They should immediately push out "new" versions identical to the old versions, just re-labelled to look modern.
Yeah, it didn't occur to me that's how to do it. I agree with you on roll backs. They rarely, if ever work. Same with 'system restore'. That one fucks up things royally.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by KGIII on Monday June 26 2017, @04:34PM
I promise, I won't install it.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Qlaras on Monday June 26 2017, @05:59PM (6 children)
Surprise - testing big, complex things isn't an instant thing! Who knew?
Anytime a new major version of the .NET Framework comes out, you usually need to skip it for Exchange, Skype for Business (Formerly Lync) and SharePoint until the next Cumulative Update. (Which are usually quarterly)
ElReg making a stink about it means:
1) They've never run any of the above systems
2) Must be a slow news day/week, desperate for some content
Until its RTM'd/released, they're still changing bits; so testing non-final-code isn't a guarantee that it'll work; and the amount of functions within each product to test makes testing dense and not-quick.
The above Server software also didn't immediately support Windows Server 2016 on release; you had to wait for a following update to the bits to make it supported.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @09:12PM (2 children)
The actual news is that M$ fired their entire testing department when the new CEO took roost.
(Score: 5, Funny) by Grishnakh on Monday June 26 2017, @09:41PM (1 child)
The actual news is that M$ fired their entire testing department when the new CEO took roost.
It'd be nice if this were more publicized, but it was absolutely the right move for MS. They don't need a testing or validation department, it's just a waste of money and produces negative shareholder value. Testing is a cost center, and is only worth it when it results in more sales. With Windows and other MS software, people are going to use it no matter how buggy it is, so there's just no point in doing a lot of testing to avoid bugs. At Intel, they created a big validation department in the wake of the infamous Pentium FDIV bug, because that bug cost them a *huge* amount of money in recalled chips. But with MS, bugs aren't going to cost them anything; they deliver software, not hardware, so they don't have to recall anything, and can just issue a patch, and moreover, there's no financial liability as their EULA quite clearly states that MS has no liability for software defects and customers use it at their own risk. So why bother testing?
Some people trash Nadella's management skills, but I think he's the most competent CEO they've ever had. Why didn't stupid Ballmer ever think of cutting costs like this during his decade-long reign?
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday June 27 2017, @09:11AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday June 26 2017, @09:17PM (2 children)
You're right, business as usual - people who have dealt with this for years will feel right at home.
Also business as usual, daily nag notices on ALL of my Windows 10 boxes about how MS would like to schedule a convenient time for me to restart the system, and somehow hasn't been able to perform the previously scheduled restart. The only OS I've used that was worse about these kind of "oh, you want to use your device now?, well, just wait a few minutes while we try to get it ready for you" kind of notices was Sony's PS3 (can't speak about PS4, didn't buy one.)
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Grishnakh on Monday June 26 2017, @09:35PM (1 child)
The only OS I've used that was worse about these kind of "oh, you want to use your device now?, well, just wait a few minutes while we try to get it ready for you" kind of notices was Sony's PS3
And people keep trying to tell me that newer game console are so much better than the NES I grew up with. I never had to wait a few minutes for that thing to start up, I just popped in a cartridge and hit the power button and it was on and playing instantly. (Luckily, I never had much trouble with bad contacts on cartridges that many people complained about, but I was also careful with my stuff, always putting the cartridges back in their sleeves when I removed them.)
(Score: 2) by NCommander on Monday June 26 2017, @09:49PM
I just switched back to PC gaming after the last generation because I got fed up with that type of crap; at least with Steam, it will always start in offline mode if nothing else.
I like to have my games ready to go on demand. I can understand installing updates for multiplayer, but waiting forever and a day for Fallout to install to the HDD is a major putoff, plus the costs for the officially "accepted" HDDs is absurd so you frequently have to delete and re-install games.
Still always moving