Associated Press reports:
While 41 percent of Republicans of all ages believe immigrants face a lot of discrimination in the United States, the percentage increases to 60 percent among Republicans between 18 and 29 years old, the survey found. That's a stark contrast to GOP voters 65 and older — only a third of that group says immigrants experience discrimination.
Researchers also found that 74 percent of young whites believe that immigrants are targeted for discrimination a lot, compared to 57 percent of white Americans of all ages. However, among Republicans, only for the youngest group, between 18 and 29, is that view in the majority. Even 30-to-39-year-old Republicans are evenly split, 48 percent to 48 percent, on whether immigrants undergo a lot of discrimination.
[...] "Closed-minded Republicans need to expand their perspective to see how immigrants are helping us all create a better America. I believe that this will change with the younger generation of Republicans," Kromsky said.
[...] According to the PRRI poll, 64 percent of all Americans, regardless of political affiliation and age, believe that immigrants in the U.S. illegally should have a path to citizenship if certain conditions are met; only 16 percent say they should be deported. Among Republicans of all ages, support for a path to citizenship is lower, at 55 percent. But when only Republicans between the ages of 18 to 29 are accounted for, that number rises to 62 percent.
[...] The age gap among Republicans also surfaces on gay rights: 54 percent of Republicans between 18 and 29 believe that gay and lesbian couples should marry, while half as many Republicans older than 65 agree. Younger GOP supporters are more closely aligned with the majority of Americans than their older counterparts: Overall, 58 percent of Americans support gay marriage. However, they are far from the average among young people of all political leanings: 74 percent of them support gay marriage.
From the same source, comes news on a class-action suit challenging a once-secret government program that delayed immigration and citizenship applications by Muslims; a suit that was okayed by a judge in Seattle:
U.S. District Judge Richard Jones in Seattle on Wednesday denied the Justice Department's request to dismiss the lawsuit, which was filed in February by the American Civil Liberties Union and the Northwest Immigrant Rights Project.
The lawsuit claims the government since 2008 has used the Controlled Application Review and Resolution Program to blacklist thousands of applications for asylum, legal permanent residency or citizenship as national security concerns.
The program imposes criteria on the applications that go far beyond what Congress has authorized, including holding up some applications if the applicants donated to Muslim charities or traveled [sic] to Muslim-majority countries, the complaint alleges.
The program was not publicly discovered until 2012, when an immigration officer discussed it during testimony in a different lawsuit. Immigrant rights advocates then filed Freedom of Information Act lawsuits to force U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services to turn over more information about it, the lawsuit said.
In addition to challenging the program, the lawsuit seeks to block any other "extreme vetting" that President Donald Trump's administration might impose as an updated version of it.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @08:28PM (1 child)
Young and Republican means they want to exploit H1B workers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @11:58PM
I thought young republicans came from Sirius-B (and barked)...
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @08:39PM (63 children)
I'm certain, because I'm doing it. Out, out, out!
All things considered, immigration doesn't help the people who are already here. Automation is killing jobs, outsourcing is killing jobs, and we're supposed to want to bring in more mouths to feed? No. There is nothing that requires the USA to have non-zero immigration.
A nation is not a chunk of land or even a set of laws. A nation is a people and a culture. Welcoming people from toxic cultures will create a more-toxic culture in the USA. Our local liberals whine about an imagined "rape culture" in the USA, but then they welcome people from Pakistan and South Africa -- places where "rape culture" is 100% real, no joke. We now have an epidemic of female genital mutilation in the USA, mostly going undetected for obvious reasons. We are not improving our nation when we bring in people who are useless and horrible.
Even the Mexicans are trouble. Part of the reason for historical economic success in the USA is a single language. We have also been a nation of laws, but that is undermined when we have people who violate our laws on day 1 when they hop over the border with forged/stolen identity documents.
We're seeing massive failure to integrate. Not many even try, because they come in large groups and the pre-existing citizens aren't insisting. We're headed to disaster. Diversity with proximity leads to slaughter. Perhaps we have most of a century left before the killing starts in earnest; why should we accelerate this?
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @08:47PM (11 children)
Feminists say they want equality, but they don't want equality. Feminists want revenge. Feminists will not stop until every woman is employed and every man is unemployed. Women once endured a second class life as housewives, but men will not be allowed to stay in the kitchen. There will be no place for men except prison.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @09:06PM (10 children)
Time to block feminists in all aspects of life?
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @09:18PM
Bring your testes a little closer, you Red Pillar Sad Puppy Momma's Boy!
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @09:18PM (8 children)
Time to fuck every feminist to death, starting with self proclaimed feminist Joss Whedon.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @10:15PM (7 children)
Are you so sure that this would not just result in your own demise, since Feminists are stronger than you, and they are after your vital fluids?
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @10:38PM (6 children)
He will end up as a debt slave (to alimony) and then later into prison because "rape".
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @10:44PM (5 children)
Getting off lucky, in view of what he done. And so easily avoided! If only he had been a real man, a strong, confident, sensitive feminist man! One without this wussy victim mentality and fear of Xenia.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @10:56PM (4 children)
"Xenia" means hospitality. Xena is the warrior princess.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @11:31PM (3 children)
Xena-phobia, plural: Xeniaphobia "fear of warrior-princesses". Besides, that sharp ring-thingy she carries? Do you know what that is originally for?
(Score: 2) by WalksOnDirt on Tuesday June 27 2017, @03:03AM (2 children)
That was a chackram [wikipedia.org]. It was used pretty much as Xena did.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @06:08AM (1 child)
And . . . little know fact, Xena was also a mohel.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @01:20PM
I don't think that is one of her many skills. Citation needed.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @08:51PM (2 children)
A certain people is an illiterate who acts as the defender of the culture of his nation
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @08:54PM (1 child)
You're the particular individual who can't grammer. "A people" is used correctly in context.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @10:19PM
But "grammer" is not. This is why we cannot have white supremacy. Defective language.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @08:57PM (2 children)
The local liberals seems to be anything but. Instead ideological lock and fanaticism seems to be more fitting.
I read that Spanish has become so big even in the 1990's that it posed a problem. Is that still so? what kind of problems creep up?
The immigration disaster can be mitigated be expelling the undesirables. The problem is usually political backbone and vested interests. But large scale diversity based killing doesn't seem likely in USA because the military still have a force to count on. They have acted in the past when large riots happened. However I'm waiting for LARGE gated cities, that is available even for those with low income. That will be a game changer.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @10:10PM
Epic fallar, mi querido AC! Nadie creerá que usted puede leer español!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @02:53AM
"Expelling the undesirables" and do you then think you're not fascist?
(Score: 4, Informative) by c0lo on Monday June 26 2017, @09:04PM (19 children)
You mean... people like those in the flyover country, the ones who elected Trump?
People who don't hold any job for quite some years (because there's none around) and live in Methland [wikipedia.org]?
You know, the former middle class which used to be the backbone of American society? Here's a hint for you: it is not immigration that killed them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @09:44PM (4 children)
Globalism killed those jobs. You outsource and import and hire immigrants, and fashion the law such that alternatives are uncompetitive, because those fly-over people are sub-human to you. They don't matter in your world.
They don't wish to leave communities filled with family and long-term friends.
People of your ilk don't care for our nation. You never fly the flag. You don't have children, and thus don't have investment in the future of the nation. You don't give a shit about America. The very idea of patriotism is offensive to you.
Without the sort of people who vote for Trump, you'd soon lack the international influence required by your economy and you'd soon discover that the immigrants reshape culture in a way that is against everything you believe in -- well I assume you don't think gays should be tossed off of buildings or that parts should be cut off of girls, but maybe you'll be cool with that. If you "win", you lose.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @10:01PM
Plus you invent new things, like computers and technology, that destroy real American jobs in typing and labor. For Chrissakes, the vacuum cleaner alone cost Americans billions of good paying cleaning jobs. Modern cutlery and its fancy liberal "knife" with a silent k and have literally dessicated the American street hand washing business.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by c0lo on Monday June 26 2017, @11:02PM
On the contrary, I'm empathetic with their situation.
Not that I approve the way that they tried to solve it.
Given that I'm not an American, I find this accusation as mildly amusing.
Like the way the Italians and Irish [nationalpost.com] shaped New York at the beginning of last century? Yes, the end result is horrible indeed, one can't even sleep anymore in that city.
That's the only true part of your post (the rest is delusional).
Pity it doesn't go deep enough - it's not the globalism itself, it's your illusion that money/capital is a purpose/end, not a mean (e.g. to have a balanced society).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @02:25AM
Fuck the fly-over states.
Fuck communities filled with family or friends.
Fuck the flag.
Fuck having children.
Fuck the future of the nation.
Fuck america.
Fuck patriotism.
Fuck Trump.
Fuck the economy.
Fuck the gays.
Fuck winning.
Pull that red white and blue cock from your fetid mouth for a second and realize that true liberty means people don't have to conform to your phony, commercially manufactured cultural ideals. Those same people who manufactured that bullshit and spoon fed it to you sold this nation down the fucking river. Finally, fuck you.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday June 27 2017, @05:46PM
Without the sort of people who vote for Trump, you'd soon lack the international influence.....
You mean the international influence that is currently in free-fall because of Trump?
U.S. Image Suffers as Publics Around World Question Trump’s Leadership [pewglobal.org]
Hell, even Americans are starting to think we suck!
Americans See US World Standing as Worst in a Decade [gallup.com]
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday June 27 2017, @02:46AM (13 children)
There has been a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth about the disappearing middle class. But almost half the US is still middle class. And of the people who aren't, a larger share has become wealthier rather than poorer than middle class. At the beginning of 2016, I wrote [soylentnews.org]:
(Score: 3, Interesting) by c0lo on Tuesday June 27 2017, @03:20AM (12 children)
Oh, wow. Glass half full, right?
Where do you draw that line? As long as there's still one individual that can be called middle class, we have nothing to worry?
You lost 11% of that class and gained only 7% in the upper class - net lost of 4% at the first sight.
Except that those extra 4% not only don't contribute to your taxation base, but also:
1. suck your social services - so an increased pressure on social services of 8%
2. can't consume higher value goods - too expensive for them - so 4% of that market lost. No, I'm not speaking about Ferrari cars, I'm speaking about fresh vegetables and the like - the one that would keep alive some other (possibly middle-class) farmers.
Meanwhile those 7% promoted into upper class? Won't consume more in quantity, just more expensive. Lately (for quite a while actually), more expensive goods doesn't translate in more jobs being created, just (a bit) more taxes paid - and this only if they haven't jumped high enough to afford an accountant able to arrange for a double-Irish-with-a-Dutch-sandwich.
4% lost from your taxation base doesn't seem that much to you? Well, continue the fight then, you haven't yet won, the middle class is still alive and kicking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Tuesday June 27 2017, @05:15AM (11 children)
Why don't you read the study? They define stuff.
I'll note at this point that the narrative has changed. We've gone from "You know, the former middle class which used to be the backbone of American society? Here's a hint for you: it is not immigration that killed them." to "4% is a big number, right?"
And why is that consideration worth considering? This is a typical failure mode of demand-driven economics. Here, you completely ignore a huge economic improvement in a portion of the US's population - because they aren't consuming sufficiently more. I believe a fair number of people here think that materialism isn't the best thing ever. You might even be one of them. I wonder how they would feel about an economic outlook that is obsessively materialistic?
Given that a) I don't see a taxation maximization as the purpose of societies, and b) you just blew off the 7% who now pay higher taxes, I don't see the point of your argument.
My point here is not to portray the recent US as the most perfect society ever, but to point out one of the many illusions about the state of the society, namely, the purely fantasy conversion of the US's middle class into poor people. When we actually look at real statistics, we see that almost twice as many people ended up wealthier than poorer and the effects are rather modest even when we look over a period of 35 years. That's just a poor fit to the narrative. Reality should get with the program.
Rather than wondering why our impression of the world is so much worse than the reality, we see here a typical response - something negative has to be found, no matter how minor it may be. This goes beyond cynicism - it's hypochondria. Maybe that sniffle really is a bad case of lung cancer. Maybe that rash you've been OCD scratching for the past 40 years is plutonium poisoning. Maybe your society is about to die of something horrible. You're bound to be right sooner or later. Ok, later.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday June 27 2017, @05:33AM (10 children)
Thanks to the data you posted. If you think of me as someone that can't assimilate information, maybe it's time to reconsider?
Because I believe that US society in average didn't benefit from the evolution. You are not better prepared to face this world than before, you aren't a more harmonious society, and for sure it's a place that is less fun to live in (read "lower life quality in average") than it was, for instance, 5-8 years ago.
You cannibalized 11% of your society quality of life only to raise 7% of it.
I am for sure one of them. The reasons I mentioned taxes:
1. because I know you as a person who gets economy (more than it gets "intangible" things, like fun)
2. to suggest that the govt will have difficulties in keeping the promises it made in the past (yes, I see Trump reneging deals made by his predecessors)
Yes, I got that message, thanks for the information.
No, I still don't think a higher polarization (income inequality in amplitude) with a flatter middle representation makes a society better. Do you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday June 27 2017, @12:45PM (9 children)
I don't think so. Your narrative immediately went to the worst thing you could pry loose from that information.
Even if we accepted your interpretation, that's cannibalize 4% to raise 7%. And speaking of "fun" in government policy is doing it wrong [xkcd.com].
I never thought that the US federal government could (much less sincerely intended to) honor the most extravagant of the promises it has made. Nor am I interested in getting taxed more just so we can learn why I believe that.
Yea, we should have flipped the lever to "more better" 40 years ago. This isn't an argument over what is better, but rather an argument over what choices we can make to improve things. It's also be better if we had 10,000 year life spans and post-scarcity standards for everything. But we don't have an obvious way to get there from here in a short while.
Here, globalization would have affected us no matter what we did. The world saw a huge amount of cheap, low skilled labor come online. It'd have affected us, no matter what approach we took (even isolationism). It isn't good enough to say 4% of the population being poorest is bad. You have to have a better approach with a better outcome. I don't think you have that.
Bottom line: you need to have rational expectations of what a society can deliver and a good enough view of what the society currently delivers.
My view is that the US has done remarkably well economically despite trying circumstances. Let's make a valiant attempt to get back on subject. Recall that this whole thread started with:
One obvious thing is that immigration means more local jobs unlike automation and outsourcing. We also ignore the benefits of ambitious immigrants (such as a current SN favorite, Elon Musk, immigrant from the rape culture of South Africa, who is in the process of revolutionizing space travel) who can create a lot of jobs rather than just merely eat food. This poor poster has even a worse grasp of what's going on in the US as well as expectations that are even less based on reality.
Or maybe not. Second and third generation immigrants tend to be very American no matter their source.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday June 27 2017, @07:51PM (8 children)
Oh, sure, I can change the narrative but of course I'm not going to change the mindset.
Nothing personal, I'm always testing the theories put forward against "what's the worse that can happen" and I accept my theories may be flawed too.
How come only 4%? The numbers are: 11% economically crippled, can't stand without social support, 7% better off.
Because it's specifically about the US fed govt which can't be trusted? Or is it that you don't believe a higher income redistribution by taxation can work if done honestly?
Or you should have not castrated Roosevelt's second new deal from 80 years earlier? Which was implemented in a remarkable short time.
Look at other societies that delivered to their citizens in spite of globalism and economic crisis, like the Scandinavian ones.
Isn't it remarkable how Iceland watered down the crisis after cleaning its banking system (instead of shifting the burden on tax payers) and applying capital control?
It on 13th place in the Human Development Index [wikipedia.org](is it rational enough for a metric?)
At what cost, though?
I tend to agree on this one, for slightly other reasons (somehow "faith-based" rather that rational. Something on the line of "Status-quo and perfection kills. Challenging a system just enough by increasing the chances of different outcomes will make that system more flexible/adaptable". Call it an "unverified crazy theory of moderate chaos injection")
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday June 27 2017, @09:44PM (7 children)
The numbers are 4% more below middle class and 7% more above middle class. There is no 11% economically crippled even if you believe that moving below middle class qualifies.
While the US government is pretty bad at dealing with any sort of redistribution scheme, I also don't believe that income redistribution is very useful. It doesn't do that much for anyone (a society with such an honest government can feed, clothe, and shelter its citizens without a lot of government intervention - and that's pretty much all you'd need a scheme for) and it takes away from the vital activities that governments do, like emergency services, national defense, etc.
I think the only problem with that "castration" was its lack of thoroughness. The FCC and a number of other government agencies are still around. US labor laws are still screwed up. Social Security is still set to implode. And maybe the haste with which those systems were set up is an indication of the poor quality of planning and foresight that went into them?
The US is at 5th place on that same index for the given year (2014)! I withhold judgment on whether the HDI is rational enough or not. It seems to be based on things which tend to be better in larger quantities (life span, education, and GDP per capita), but I notice the presence of a inequality-adjusted HDI which definitely doesn't meet the standard of rationality (they haven't even established that more inequality is worse!). But the high ranking of the US on what you apparently consider an important metric should be yet another to rethink some of your positions. The US with its lack of comprehensive social programs is still holding its own against these other systems. That means the US is doing something right. Perhaps we ought to figure that out?
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday June 27 2017, @11:30PM (6 children)
An as good hypothesis as mine (mine being: Reaganomics screwed the pouch).
A pity that social is not suitable for double blind experimentation (so we can agree to disagree).
In regards with Roosevelt new deal agencies, there are still a lot (more than FCC, labor laws and social security) around [wikipedia.org]. What's no longer around is the progressive taxation to pay for them.
Mind you, social programs aren't necessary a sign of fiscal irresponsibility - Roosevelt managed to keep the finances in check [wikipedia.org] before WWII, Reagan blew them away [macrotrends.net]
I haven't chose the Iceland example at random: GFC saw their entire country financial system busted, their currency fell 80%, they narrowly avoided sovereign bankruptcy.
Yet Ireland managed to surpass US in the same period.
Then come with a proposal of "Quality of life" metric - just don't link it exclusively with GDP/capita, that's not "quality of life" (at most, it's a "potential"- whether or not this potential is realized in "Quality of life" depends on how the society is structured).
Then use the non-inequality-adjusted.
As for "more inequality is worse": if placing this question in the context of "Quality of life", what your feeling of guts say?
Take an extreme example - e.g. would you like a "corporatism feudalism" type of society (no state, all economy driven, with social barriers for transiting between "have-nots" to "haves" - no free education, no social security, inventions/progress in technology are accessible only with non-trivial investment, no non-violent exit from the "have-not" class).
In my book, this qualify as worse: the corporate overlords have little incentive to push technology and science further.
If you agree, there's the case (I need only one) that allows me to state: "there exist conditions in which income inequality is detrimental to society" and we can continue bickering on where we draw the line between "good/detrimental" in regards with income inequality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday June 28 2017, @05:19AM (5 children)
It's almost like we'll have to resort to something other than merely asserting things, eh? I'll note that FDR had a second recession later in his reign (1936-1937) which only ended with the advent of the Second World War which resulted in the ending of a lot of FDR policies (which got in the way of winning a war). Reagan instead started a sustained period of economic growth that lasted through 1990 and then resumed again in 1992 and lasted till 2000.
Surpass at what? US ranked higher at the time, let us note. And they didn't avoid sovereign bankruptcy ("their currency fell 80%" is an 80% default on ISK-valued loan payments among other things). And why would the things you listed reduce HDI?
So do you want to abandon demand-side economics or not? I'm getting mixed signals here.
Take an extreme straw man, let us note. This is a lot like the Laffer curve argument. Perfect equality means the ones with merit aren't getting rewarded. Perfect inequality means a ton of people are kept down regardless of merit. But in between allows for some interesting flexibility and dynamics. And I haven't claimed that more inequality is always better, just that the opposite assumption at the core of the inequality metric that more inequality is always worse is unfounded.
There isn't a point to your side in this thread. You started with an assertion about the death of the middle class that was blatantly false. Rather than learn, you came up with a ridiculous argument based on the growth of the lower than middle classes while brushing off that almost twice as many became wealthier than middle class (and that all this has happened over a rather long 35 year period, indicating the US is holding up well to the economic changes of the past half century).
Now, we're seeing some ridiculous straw men. Just because I happen to believe that more income/wealth inequality is not necessarily a bad thing, doesn't mean that I think some ridiculous extreme about corporate feudalism.
My point behind all this is that if we're not perceiving what's actually happening, then how can we be right about the solutions?
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday June 28 2017, @06:45AM (3 children)
Which WWII saw an increase in the maximal tax rate from 75% for incomes over $5mil to 90% for incomes over $200,000 (if my reading is correct [wikipedia.org]).
Seems like tax increases were necessary for winning the war, right? If it worked during crisis, why wouldn't it work during normal times? (no, I'm not totally serious raising this question, you can let is slide away).
Have a look over the next years - 2015 and 2016 Iceland's HDI is higher than USA's.
Because a weak ISK means implicitly less trust into Iceland economy's ability to generate enough to maintain a strong/stable currency.
As such, the GDP (which is still part of HDI) as measured in a reference currency is likely to be impacted. Am I wrong?
Can you show me who actually offered loans valued in ISK to Icelandic banks/govt?
I can't believe ISK has such a large circulation (monetary mass) and acceptance on the financial market that someone would think to use ISK as a reference in valuing loans.
The position of "Any loans that US took is USD on Australian market were defaulted by 50% when USD failed from almost 2AUD/USD before 2009 to 0.95AUD/USD in 2009" sounds closer to plausibility than "ISK-valued loans" (even if I wouldn't use this model).
I proposed HDI as a rational metric for "quality of life" with the hope you'll agree and we can continue to use values in this metric as a comparison.
You didn't quite agree with it, not outright rejected it, so I invited you to propose another, one which you will consider a good enough metric for the "quality of life".
Is it clearer now?
With the emphasized, we can close this part (it was meant only to act as an extreme scenario in a "thought experiment" to put into evidence that there's a point where inequality is detrimental. As you seem to agree, there's no longer a need for the artifice).
Ah, thanks for the reference to Laffer curve. I knew about it a while ago, but I forgot the name.
Ah, hmmm... Well, at least we can find what's currently not working.
And far from my mind to propose solutions: at most, I can suggest things that seemed to work in other geographies and/or times.
Thanks for the correction. Now I know it is not dead yet.
I still don't get you arithmetic: I'm seeing 11% being worse and 7% getting better. To me, it still sounds like "I damaged some 11 to make other 7 better".
Either:
a. you accept that you lost 4% in your bottom line (and have 7% lost compensated by the 7% better) - profit=-4; *or*
b. accept that you get 7% better (income) while sacrificing 11% (expense).
The position of "I got 7% better (income) while sacrificing only 4% (negative profit)" simply doesn't make sense to my mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday June 28 2017, @01:10PM (2 children)
Maximal tax rates are relevant only if you pay those rates. Another thing that was ended was FDR-sponsored oligopolies.
You aren't. Once again, there were five cohorts treated by the study, the "middle class" in the middle and two lower classes and two upper classes. The lower classes went from 25% to 29%. That's an increase of 4% not 11%. The middle class as defined by the study shrunk from 61% to 50%, an 11% drop. And the upper classes grew from 14% to 21%, a 7% increase. So of the 11% drop in middle class number, almost two thirds of the shift was to upper class instead. Also it's worth noting that the class divisions are relative to the median income with the high side of the ranking being really high. You're below middle class, if you earn less than 67% of median income, but to get into higher classes, you have to earn over 200% of median income, meaning people have to earn a lot more in order to be moving to upperclasses while people who move into lower classes don't have to earn that much less in order to do so.
While it is an interesting metric, I notice that it overemphasizes small changes in longevity while downplaying similar-sized changes in GDP per capita (which of course does downplay the US approach to some degree). The education metric is just something I'm not comfortable with at all. There are parts that obviously necessary to quality of life, such as literacy rate. But other parts (like amount of higher education), aren't necessarily improvements (unfortunately, the US is exploring a variety of ways to make education negative value IMHO). If everyone is spending a huge portion of their lives in formal education, that indicates something is wrong. Currently, one spends on average about a quarter to fifth of their lives merely reaching some basic college education.
Hmmm, I guess what I think would be interesting here, using the three subjects of this metric. Longevity is obviously important, but I would use a logarithmic scale - small changes in longevity just aren't that valuable no matter what the dying man may feel about the issue. For a measure of education and economic well-being, I'd use a combination of measures of people who pass minimal thresholds of education and economic attainment (literacy rates and poverty rate) and an estimate of the marginal improvement to be gained from engaging in an hour of education or work at a fixed level of education or hours worked per week - for example, if someone has graduated from high school or equivalent, what is the value to them economically of an hour of college-level education at the rate they would pay for it? What's the average wage paid for an hour of work (maybe measured by quintile as well to get a better idea of the work traction of various groups at various levels of income)? I'll note these are viewpoints where the US doesn't tend to shine (with both higher college costs and more hours worked per week, that should deflate US figures).
My idea here is that quality of life can be crudely measured by how long you live and by how much effort you need to put into living. Higher marginal value to your efforts indicate that you need less effort to just live and more effort can more readily translate into improving your lot in life should that be something you want.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday June 28 2017, @11:32PM (1 child)
Pedantry, I admit:
a. " 75% for incomes over $5mil" meant exactly one individual - JD Rockefeller. I assume "90% for incomes over $200,000" included a lot more other (not in the "middle-class class")
b. FDR-sponsored oligopolies were replaced by it will become not much later the military-industrial complex. Sponsored by the tax-payer, "on the expense of the future" (i.e. the govt borrowing like crazy).
And the above is almost pedantry because one can't judge crisis time solutions using the metric of the normal life ("almost" - because one doesn't need a war to slide into a "crisis like" situation).
You are right. Thanks.
Depends on what you chase:
a. if "life just for the life itself" is the value that you chose, then GDP and education are means and longevity becomes the purpose.
b. if "life for the purpose of productivity" is the value you chose, then GDP is the purpose and longevity is a (limited) mean, education a more direct one.
c. if "scientific/technological progress" is the value you choose, then GDP and longevity are means (with longevity having a smaller effectiveness).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday June 30 2017, @12:14AM
JD Rockefeller never paid those rates prior to his death in 1937. His wealth was in trusts which wouldn't have seen those marginal tax rates no matter how high the income was. And similarly, any other high income person could use similar instruments to avoid the 90% marginal tax rate. One of the things that the Reagan era did was greatly reduce the tax loophole industry. It is still out there, but there's not the same obsession to avoid taxes (and the same corresponding degree of inefficiencies introduced in the US economy merely to dodge taxes) as there used to be.
The military-industrial complex didn't reach its current level of oligopoly formation until the consolidation of the military industries around the end of the Cold War in the mid to late 1980s. So even though it was a serious problem as early as 1961, when Eisenhower made his speech about the twin threats of the military-industrial complex and the domination of research by government, it didn't reach the current level of unhealthiness for decades.
The follies of the military-industrial complex also seems to me to be a demonstration that such things hold back economies which supports my earlier argument.
Well, we can look at what people actually "chase". Of the three, b. seems most pursued with a large number of people working hard to increase their wealth and prosperity (also economic immigration is either the largest or second largest reason for immigration, competing with fleeing really bad situations like war zones). a. doesn't really happen until people are reaching the end of their lives when suddenly death doesn't look so good and the common struggle against the inevitable begins. Before that, you see people smoking and boozing, eating hearty rather than allegedly healthy, and so on. They could make changes decades earlier to improve their odds, but apparently those changes aren't worth the modest effort and cost. And as to scientific/technological progress, that's the arena of experts - who typically care about such progress far more than the layperson. My point here is that we've pretty much decided economic aspects are the most important.
You can of course change the weightings however you'd like. I'll note relevant to my comment above, that increasing life span from 85 years to 145 years would double the life expectancy index (1.00 to 2.00). To double the GDP index (from 1.00 to 2.00 again), starting at $40,000 per capita would require a GDP of $16 million per capita (no take backs for inflation). That's way in post-scarcity territory. Sorry, living 60 more years isn't equivalent to a society 400 times as wealthy. The education index is linear as well, but capped by 100% participation. You can't double that index, unless you have really low adult literacy rates to start with (for example, 0% college educated and 75% adult literacy shifting to 100% college educated and literate would double that index from 0.5 to the absolute maximum of 1.00). It should be a warning to us that the index, which is in the real world most heavily valued by people making their own decisions, is extremely nerfed compared to the others.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Wednesday June 28 2017, @10:17AM
khallow! Stop! You are in over your head! c0lo just knows more than you do! Best to stop before you reveal what an ideologue you are, but, oh, it may be too late for that already. Well, I was here, trying to help you! Tarbaby, bro!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @09:13PM (3 children)
. . . they are racist refugees from Apartheid South Africa, Rhodesia, Leeds, and Nazi Germany. And Poland. The real threat to America is racist nativists who are not even American, because no American could be racist unless they brought it in from their messed up "culture" of isolationism and xenophobia. You can tell them, since they think that there should be an "official language" of the United States, and they keep suggesting a language of foreign origin for that purpose! Since we cannot assimilate these racist bastards, I recommend they be forcible expelled. Maybe Sweden will accept them as refugees. Of course, since they are opposed to refugees, maybe they would refuse to be refugees, and not accept themselves.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @10:03PM
What are you talking about libtard?! I speak American like God wrote it in the Bible.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @01:35PM (1 child)
What are you talking about? I grew up in Poland and I did not understand what the concept of Racism was till I moved to the states and met Black people, who "kindly" introduced me to it. Homogeneous societies do not have problems with racism. You create racism by letting other cultures and peoples into your country, and forcing the natives to compete with the new arrivals for diminishing amount of opportunities.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @09:08PM
You make my point completely! Thank you! Now lets keep the Polacks out! They are so racist they don't even know they are white! These are the ones Kanye was talking about when he said, "I see white people, and they don't even know they are white!" So keep the Polish out, to make America Grate Agin! .
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @09:21PM (2 children)
not sure if troll or just plain stupid, learn some history before opening your piehole
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @09:36PM (1 child)
Fecking racist AC! When you point, three fingers are pointing right back at you! We are all pretty sure you are the stupid one.
(Score: 2) by KGIII on Tuesday June 27 2017, @04:52PM
Trivially related: I spotted the person who hasn't traveled.
Some cultures don't like pointing with our "pointer finger." Many Arabic cultures (they're not all the same) point with the thumb. In Nepal, they consider any pointing to be rude - though it's more acceptable in urban areas where they get outsiders. They usually point with their chin. In parts of China, it's done with the palm up and all five digits pointing.
Not important, but interesting to note - in my views. There's a whole lot of differences in cultures. Largely, people are people everywhere. They just have some different behaviors that are considered normal - mostly harmless things.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
(Score: 3, Insightful) by NewNic on Monday June 26 2017, @09:39PM (6 children)
LOL. Because Mexico doesn't have a single dominant language?
Your history is completely wrong. There were generations of people in the USA who spoke only German until well into the 20th century. Now we have millions of Spanish speakers. Yes, English dominates, but to suggest that the USA's history in terms of a using single language is significantly greater than Mexico's is ridiculous.
How about this fact from Wikipedia: "Over 50 million Americans claim German ancestry, which makes them the largest single ethnic group in the United States." Yet now we mostly speak English.
Your posting clearly shows that you hold a racist viewpoint.
lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @10:05PM (4 children)
It always amuses me that literally zero Americans I have asked have said they are English-American. Proud of heritage fail?!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @10:49PM
Those are called, "Canadians". After the Revolution, all the Loyalists left to places they could still grovel before a monarch.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @12:44AM
I'm Dutch-American, you insensitive clod!
(Score: 2) by WalksOnDirt on Tuesday June 27 2017, @03:13AM (1 child)
I'm an English-Scottish-German-Jewish-Cherokee American. That's all I know of, anyhow. It's a bit of a mouthful for everyday identification.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @05:24AM
Hey! So am I! Are we related?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @11:05PM
I did say "part", and our economic success didn't really kick in until German went out of style.
Mexico does have multiple languages. The non-Spanish areas are in horrific poverty even by Mexican standards. Mexico might seem bad now, but they'd be way worse without a fairly dominant language.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by bob_super on Monday June 26 2017, @09:40PM (3 children)
> We're seeing massive failure to integrate. Not many even try, because they come in large groups
Correct! Those Black immigrants living in their own "town" with their own church should be stopped!
Correct! Those Irish immigrants living in their own "town" with their own church should be stopped!
Correct! Those Jewish immigrants living in their own "town" with their own temple should be stopped!
Correct! Those German immigrants living in their own "town" with their own church should be stopped!
Correct! Those Polish immigrants living in their own "town" with their own church should be stopped!
Correct! Those Italian immigrants living in their own "town" with their own church should be stopped!
Correct! Those Chinese immigrants living in their own "town" with their own temple should be stopped!
Correct! Those Korean immigrants living in their own "town" with their own temple should be stopped!
Correct! Those Japanese immigrants living in their own "town" with their own temple should be stopped!
Correct! Those Iranian immigrants living in their own "town" with their own mosque should be stopped!
...
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @10:03PM (1 child)
So how did that Plymouth town work out for the North American natives?
I'm sure there were liberal members of the tribes who thought it was proper to welcome the immigrants. Hey, share some corn and beans and squash and cranberries and turkey! Go to the Thanksgiving party! Life will be great with all the diversity!
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Monday June 26 2017, @10:11PM
Are you afraid?
Your grandparents weren't exterminated by Germans or the Chinese. Their grand parents weren't decimated by the Irish.
There are more Indians and Chinese than Latinos or Muslims, and they work better jobs when the immigrate to the US, paying more taxes and creating more riches than many Americans.
Lie down on the couch and tell me, boy, what are you really afraid of?
(Score: 2) by Sulla on Tuesday June 27 2017, @06:14AM
If it weren't for the Italians we wouldn't have an FBI.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @10:42PM (5 children)
You might be able to make that argument if the US *had* a unified culture (no, consumerism isn't a culture) or homogenous racial makeup. Practically every other country on the planet can make this claim except the US.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @11:38PM (4 children)
The US have a culture that people need to adapt to if they want to be relevant. So while there exist many other cultures, there is in essence only one that matters.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @12:08AM (3 children)
Yeah! Simple things like subject-verb agreement! "US" is a singular noun, so it should take the third person singular present tense verb: "has". If you cannot speak the language, I suggest you get the bollocks out of England!
Second, why would anyone want to be relevant in the US? And do you know who definitely is NOT relevant? Racist bastards trying to claim that there is some such thing as "American culture". I suppose you will insist only only mustard on hot dogs? Pizza eaten with the hands? Never carrying your sidearm concealed? Hula Hoops and phone-booth stuffing? Duckbutt haircuts? You have now idea what you are talking about.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday June 27 2017, @02:06AM
Oy!!! There are lots of cultural things that came from America - jazz is the first to pop into my mind (due to my affinity with it), don't tell me that "Rhapsody in blue" and "Take five" aren't worthy to be considered expression of culture.
Two things need to be added to the above:
1. note the verb tense - "came" as it is. Lately, I fail to see anything culturally significant coming from USoA (no, Facebook and Transformers pertain to anti-culture).
2. many of the American-specific cultural expressions were originated/created by immigrants
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @04:00AM (1 child)
The US is a collective noun in this context. Using have with it is perfectly acceptable grammar.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @04:21AM
Singular collective noun, you bungling ignoramous! Can we not have proper American English here on SoylentNews? And I the only one who still believes in the the Rules? (of grammar and spelling?). My God your are stupid and illiterate and probably a trump supporter but definitely a Republican who believes that cutting taxes with make America a collective noun and allow us to USE THE WRONG FuCKING Verb!!!! I have had it up to hear with all the Mufferducking Republicans on this Mudderfunking website!!! Go sit, time out for you, you flunk elementary English! You are no allowed to comment any further, you firken bucket of a racist!!!! Now, don't make me angry, or I may actually insult you. You inside-out urchin.
(Score: 2) by Taibhsear on Tuesday June 27 2017, @03:10PM
You got a citation for that? This is the first I've heard of it and I have a lot of friends in the medical field as well as immigrants.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @08:46PM (23 children)
When difficulties experienced by immigrants are discussed. It matters what kind of immigrants that is referred. And what kind of difficulties that is meant.
Keep in mind that even a professor in robotics from Australia of English descent would be a "immigrant". And that person will likely be more desirable than other persons. Which means that any state or people will want means to deny people that will be a detriment to themselves.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @09:31PM (22 children)
Things might not be so terrible if we were choosy. We aren't, and that mostly isn't about to change. It's better that we admit this and just shut down immigration.
I mean really, can you imagine us being appropriately choosy?
You must demonstrate a willingness to eat a bacon cheeseburger. Your party must arrive with a grown woman who is willing to be seen by non-family males while wearing only sandals, short shorts, and a tank top. All people over age 10 must demonstrate an IQ of at least 115. All members of your party must be willing to shake hands with non-family members of the opposite sex. If not highly fluent in English, you must be highly fluent in a language that is NOT among the 10 most popular in the United States.
That isn't going to happen.
(Score: 2) by NewNic on Monday June 26 2017, @09:42PM (4 children)
So what you are saying is that we should expand the H1B visa program, but reduce the number of green cards issued to family members?
lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @09:56PM
Make the minimum salary be 3x the median household income. Block anybody with a belief system that includes a restrictive diet, required clothing on the arms/legs/head, a required system of law, or similar trouble. Block anybody who would likely isolate themselves in a non-English community.
That won't happen, but sure. It might be a decent idea to have a reasonable number of such people. At no time should the number of such people in any age/sex group be a significant portion of the population -- perhaps 5% is a reasonable limit. (so we can let in a 32-year-old male if 4.99% of the 32-year-old males are immigrants, but not if 5.00% are) Have a much lower limit when language is concerned; 5% is far too high for any non-English language. Maybe 0.1% for that.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Tuesday June 27 2017, @07:17PM (2 children)
No, don't expand H1B because it's a bullshit visa, because it ties employees to their employers. Change it so that the visa-holders can job-hop all they want and it'll be good.
Green cards issued to family members are bullshit IMO if they're for extended family. Your kids, of course; your spouse, sure; your parents, I'm not so sure but maybe; your 2nd cousin, definitely not.
(Score: 2) by NewNic on Tuesday June 27 2017, @07:30PM (1 child)
H1Bs don't tie immigrants to their employers. The green card process does.
People who are in the USA on an H1B can get a new visa for a different employer, without any quota limitations.
lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday June 30 2017, @12:27AM
My view is that this whole area is a huge mess that doesn't protect anyone from evil foreigners. I'd much rather have green card access after a sizeable payment and relatively background check for criminal activities and such, skipping most of these visas altogether for a straightforward permanent residency that is easy to get.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @09:49PM
Like many other countries, even some of the "socialist" ones in Europe that are so highly regarded by Liberals have much more restrictive immigration than the USA.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Monday June 26 2017, @10:08PM (8 children)
You must demonstrate a willingness to eat a bacon cheeseburger.
Why? I'm American and I really hate bacon. I like cheeseburgers as much as the next American, but fuck that bacon shit. Honestly, that sounds like a Southern thing to me, and as someone who actually grew up in the South, I fucking hate most Southern food. Don't try to pass Southern shit food off as "American", especially that pork rind crap. No one else in the country wants to eat that shit, only stupid hick Southerners (and even then, only some of them; don't get me wrong, not all Southerners have such horrible taste in food).
You might as well make a law saying people must be happy to eat oysters to be a "real American"... except that most Americans don't, it's something popular mainly on the east coast.
Face it, there's no food that's uniquely American that almost all of America actually likes, unless it's so popular that it's been exported all over the place (like hamburgers).
Your party must arrive with a grown woman who is willing to be seen by non-family males while wearing only sandals, short shorts, and a tank top. All members of your party must be willing to shake hands with non-family members of the opposite sex.
Then you'll have to kick out a whole bunch of conservative Christian Americans, especially Mormons and worse, Amish.
If not highly fluent in English, you must be highly fluent in a language that is NOT among the 10 most popular in the United States.
What does this mean for all the Cajuns in Louisiana? Are you going to kick them out too? I guess the Amish and native Hawai'ians are lucky they also speak English (maybe the Cajuns do too, I'm not sure though). And what about all the people who speak English, but with such a horrible accent that it's completely incomprehensible to standard English speakers? Like all those white people from the mountains of Appalachia, or white Southerners from anywhere in the Deep South?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @11:05PM (1 child)
I'm American and I really hate bacon.
Ha! Sleeper terrorist detected!
:)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @12:10AM
This is why we need more than bacon. Test for immigration: must consume sweetbreads and headcheese and Rocky Mountain oysters.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @08:01AM (4 children)
I could sort of go for kicking people out, but natural citizens with no other citizenship really are the rightful owners of this place. That includes the defective ones.
If they get a second citizenship though, yeah, good riddance.
Somebody arriving here as an immigrant is asking us for a favor. We can and should hold them to a higher standard.
As for the bacon... how about shrimp or a nice pork chop instead? That'd do. If you won't eat either of those, there is a diet problem likely related to some sort of religious or religion-like belief system.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @01:26PM
The Tick That Gives People Meat Allergies Is Spreading [soylentnews.org].
But yeah, deport 'em all! Can't eat bacon? Can't eat a pork chop? Deport 'em! I don't care if they're a natural born citizen with no other citizenship in the world. God wouldn't have bitten them with a tick if god didn't want them deported! Deport 'em all!!eleven!1!
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Tuesday June 27 2017, @04:33PM (2 children)
Somebody arriving here as an immigrant is asking us for a favor. We can and should hold them to a higher standard.
Except your "higher standard" is complete and utter bullshit: bacon is garbage. So who gets to mandate the "higher standard"? And how is it fair to not hold citizens to anything remotely like that standard? If you put me in charge of the standards, they'll have to show a love of progressive rock music from the 70s and road cycling and a high disdain for American-brand cars, rap music, country music, and pickup trucks, for instance. And my tastes are probably not at all unusual for countless white Americans living in large metro areas.
how about shrimp or a nice pork chop instead?
I hate pork chops. In fact, I really don't like anything with pork; it's a rather nasty-tasting meat. Shrimp is good, but liking shrimp is not at all unique to America. Why the fixation on diet choices anyway? Are you anti-Jewish?
(Score: 2) by KGIII on Tuesday June 27 2017, @05:09PM
I retired and moved to a backwoods place in NW, Maine. I should add that I'm so Native American that Canada has to let me in. My tribe is mostly located in NS, CAN, and is the Micmac tribe. They are also from Maine and were out on the other islands.
Anyhow, someone once asked me why I emigrated to Maine. They were being polite and just curious. I told them that I was returning to my home.
It took years for the locals to adjust to me - and I didn't make it easy. I still call them The Village People, 'cause they live in the village and I'm quite a ways out, in an unincorporated township. They've adjusted and accepted me. Now, when I call them The Village People, I point out that I'm the Indian.
I'm not sure what I'm trying to say, but it takes time and effort to acclimate to a new community, to adhere to new social norms, and it takes effort on both parts. It's not quite a different country but it's a very different culture than many would expect. I knew that I was accepted when they started telling me the gossip, instead of the gossip being about me. When I was having my house built, they would show up and watch it being constructed.
It was pretty different but I'm happy to be here.
Again, I'm not sure there's anything deep in this message but that's my best example of assimilation. I've traveled a great deal but this is different because I am intending to remain here. I changed some, they changed some, and we're a happy group of people.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @08:49PM
Muslims, Jews, and Hindus all have dietary restrictions. This is unacceptable.
Having a bacon cheeseburger indicates that you don't care about that stuff.
If somebody is allergic or hates the taste, oh well. This is rare. We have no duty to accept outsiders. People with allergies and picky eating are trouble anyway.
(Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Tuesday June 27 2017, @04:09PM
Blasphemy!!!!
The world is full of kings and queens who blind your eyes and steal your dreams.
(Score: 2) by arslan on Monday June 26 2017, @11:08PM (2 children)
WTH are you talking about? It is not easy to migrate to the U.S. as a professional, compared to countries that uses a point based system like Oz or Canada. You need basically a job sponsorship or lots of money. If that is not choosy I don't know what is.
Yes, there are loads of Indian tech companies abusing this by arbitrage and that is only because there are AMERICAN partners willing to support this, but that is an implementation/enforcement problem. The policy itself is actually relatively pretty choosy for an individual who wants to follow the process to the letter of the law.
You must mean refugee migrants..
(Score: 5, Insightful) by LoRdTAW on Tuesday June 27 2017, @02:54AM (1 child)
I don't get how people are dumb enough to buy into the immigrant FUD. It's obviously the American businessman who sold us out. Paco, Habib and Samir didn't come to the USA, walk into our places of employment and take our place. No, the employer saw an opportunity to pay those guys next to nothing and LURED them here (and in some cases directly bring them in). The people get pissed, and the trusty ol anti immigrant narrative is stoked so everyone pays attention to that instead of the men behind the curtain.
The irony is the same red blooded businessmen who actively seek out these low cost employees to replace more costly Americans are put on a pedestal by the same people they are fucking out of a job. God Bless America.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @02:36PM
yes-- they point somewhere to draw attention from themselves.
What is the phrase? Business leaders are saying something like this while entrenching their positions: I'll let you all fight for second place.
"You" all are the people fighting for the same jobs that they are investing in robots and automation to replace. Maybe not all of them, but even prostitutes won't work for free even if its the only skill they have. Someone's gotta have money. The robots won't likely need prostitutes, nor will the small shell script that replaces many people.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @12:45AM (1 child)
Can we require that they cook it over a fire started using the bible as kindling? If we're going to stop admitting Muslims, Jew, Hindus, Buddhist and maybe others, let's keep the Christians out, too.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Tuesday June 27 2017, @07:27PM
Actually, Hindus don't have a problem with eating meat, and they eat meat all the time. It's only the Brahmans, the highest caste, that practices vegetarianism. So a meat-eating requirement for immigration would end up only barring a minority of Hindus (and the ones who are generally the richest and most well-off at that).
The only problem I have with keeping the Christians out is that, while that isn't a completely terrible idea, it's been my observation that American Christians are by far the very worst of the lot in general. What we need is an immigration system where any time a Christian is allowed in, one of our own gets randomly booted out. Since so many American Christians now are followers of Prosperity Gospel, there's a decent chance we'd lose one of them for each Christian immigrant. Even better would be a 1:3 system, where admitting 1 Christian immigrant results in 3 American Christians being deported: we'd reduce the problems with our horrible versions of Christianity, and we'd also reduce our population problems at the same time! As for where to deport them to, Somalia would be a good place: there's no really functional government there which could protest us dropping all these people off there, and these people generally complain a lot about "big government" so Somalia would be a good fit for their worldview.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @02:50AM
What the blithering hell are you babbling about?!? There are many things that might make me apprehensive about a potential immigrant but abstaining from eating pork is not one of them.
Also, this country does not have a dress code. Are you sure you are an American? Are you really sure?
Sadly, it looks to my eye that you wouldn't be able to pass your own entrance requirements.
While I do think it is a good idea to be friendly and outgoing, I'm not so sure I would make it an actual requirement for entry into the country. Also, there are lots of Americans who don't like shaking hands. Just so you know.
I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. Do you understand what this is supposed to mean? I mean...YOU did write it after all.
Well, thank God! For a second there, I was worried.
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Tuesday June 27 2017, @02:56AM
How about we start with you so you can get that free plane ticket. Buh-bye now.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Monday June 26 2017, @09:05PM (61 children)
Islam remains incompatible with democracy. Muslims aren't "immigrating" so much as they are "colonizing". But, white guilt has blinded people to the realities of life.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @09:16PM (36 children)
Runaway is more imcompatible with democracy! Go back where you came from, Runaway!
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday June 26 2017, @09:21PM (35 children)
He's not wrong though. Islam is incompatible with Western democracy. So is Christianity, but thankfully most Christians are fat, lazy, theologically-illiterate morons who wouldn't recognize Jesus if the guy smacked them across the face hard enough to leave a big red handprint with a size 98 nail hole in it.
The Abrahamic religions, in fact, are incompatible with any civilization above Iron Age.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @09:28PM
Don't tell Western capitalists about Christian communism.
(Score: 2) by arslan on Monday June 26 2017, @11:12PM (2 children)
The Pagan gods laugh inside their tomb in oblivion..
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Tuesday June 27 2017, @02:59AM (1 child)
Nah. They saw humanity, packed up and went back to Asgard. Then a bunch of loons in the desert started various cults and here we are.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @06:15AM
Let's get this right, before he awakes: “In his house at R’lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming.”
(Score: 2, Insightful) by knarf on Monday June 26 2017, @11:41PM (26 children)
Well, yes, and no. While it is a popular opinion to put the 'The Abrahamic religions' all together in the same box, the reality is that there are significant differences between Judaism, Christianity and islam. Christianity was incompatible with democracy before the enlightenment but things have changed since then. The most important change is the separation of church and state, no longer does the Christian church profess it should be at the helm of the state. Judaism takes a similar stance, although there are those who deem it incompatible with the concept of a secular state. Furthermore, Christianity and Judaism do not include the doctrine of forcible conversion which is present in islam.
Islam needs 'an enlightenment' but it is hard to see how something like that would be possible given the ban on changing so much as a single character of the koran and the doctrine of Mohammed as 'the perfect man, to be followed whenever possible'. Without such an 'enlightenment' islam is, and will stay incompatible with 'western democracy'.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @12:17AM (22 children)
Lies! There is no doctrine of forcible conversion in Islam, any more than there was in Christianity during the Spanish Inquisition, which no one expects. Take your Islamophobic pants wetting back to Gen. Flynn and his craven coven of cowardly cretins. Do not make us impose sharia on you just for shits and giggles.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday June 27 2017, @12:37AM (19 children)
Technically, you're right. There are no forced conversions. The Muslim jihadist will give you a choice. Convert, or die. It's entirely up to you whether you convert. You don't have to convert. He won't whip you with a cat of nine tails until you convert. It's very, very simple. Convert, or die. If you tell him that you're a Christian or a Jew, he MAY just enslave you. But, it boils down to convert, or die. That is in the Quran, ordered by the pedophile who would be a prophet.
(Score: 3, Informative) by aristarchus on Tuesday June 27 2017, @12:56AM (18 children)
So, it's just the same as the Christians, the Hasmonean Jews, Not-at-all-gay Fundies and Republicans? What's the matter, Runaway? Think they will force you to believe something that just ain't so? Reasonable fear, given what Fox News has been able to do to you so far. In fact, I think all these "Islam is not a religion" coward types have gotten to you, as well. All it takes is fear, not actual whippage, and you jump on the "denounce Islam" bandwagon? You've been force-converted, Runaway. Try to break free. Think for yourself.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @01:19AM (11 children)
Are you familiar with the Westboro Baptist Church? They are the ones who protest with "GOD HATES FAGS" signs.
Islam makes the Westboro Baptist Church members look like bleeding heart liberals, progressive and SJW to the max. If you don't mind Islam, you'll love the Westboro Baptist Church.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Tuesday June 27 2017, @01:36AM (7 children)
My sign says, "God hates Flags!" All of them! Of course, you have no idea what you are talking about. Westborough are just a tad extreme for Baptists, and do not even get anywhere close to Pentecostals or Assembly of God types, or the Calvary Chapel! These are the religions that are aiming to overthrow the Enlightenment achievement of separation of church and state. And of course, Mike Pence is poised to take over, when the Muslins attack and take out Drumpf, and impose Biblical law to save us from the nasty, nasty muslins. Yes, Christianity has given up on the idea of Christendom, that kind of fell apart during the Thirty Years War in Europe, but the hope remains in America!
So, silly AC, it is not that I don't mind monotheistic fantasies, it is just that I do not see them as any kind of threat to rational thought. Runaway, not quite being rational, is scared. So try to help him gain some courage of some convictions, do not scare him further with Baptists!
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday June 27 2017, @02:21PM (6 children)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U144Haddt5o [youtube.com]
It's amazing that you (ab)use the name of a philosopher, but you can't distinguish between a religion whose founder orders his followers to kill all nonbelievers - and another religion whose founder orders you to love your neighbor as you love yourself. You should probably register a new account, and give this one up.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Tuesday June 27 2017, @07:25PM (5 children)
Sorry, Runaway, I do not click on undescribed youtube links posted by anti-religious zealots, or people consumed by a hatred of a semitic religion. Maybe it is time you quit posting on things you know little about, but have some pathological fear of. Just saying.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday June 27 2017, @11:46PM (4 children)
If you prefer to remain ignorant, that is your choice. Don't click. It's Youtube, FFS - do you think it's full of malware?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Wednesday June 28 2017, @04:35AM (3 children)
I don't know, Runaway. But you linked it, and I don't want it to do to me what it did to you!
I had a mentor tell me once that investigating things like the ethics of violence ran the danger of titillation, that attempting to discuss something like violence in a religion ran the risk of turning into a form of atrocity porn. Fundies are great for this. One of the grossest websites I have ever come across was fundie who was saying, "Just look at how perverted and terrible this is!" I had to admit, it was quite the collection of perversity! Must of taken lots of time and concentration to collect just that much perversion, all in one place. Same thing for the islamophobes. I really suspect they want to be able to stone, defenestrate, and decapitate peoples, since they focus on it so much. Are you alright, Runaway? There are people who can help.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday June 28 2017, @02:47PM (2 children)
"I had a mentor tell me once "
So, wait. You had a mentor, who told you that investigating stuff for yourself could damage your delicate psyche - and you believed him?
Well - after a bit of thought, it's pretty obvious that you do have a delicate psyche. A lot of women used to have "vapors", but today progressives have delicate psyches. That helps to explain a lot of things about this turkey who professes to be a philosopher.
Please, Ari, you don't want to read any of Tolstoy's works. You'll be severely damaged.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Wednesday June 28 2017, @07:43PM (1 child)
Never had a mentor, did you, Runaway? It shows. The question is not damage, it is the loss of control. Think of islamophobe videos like heroin; yes, one hit will not damage you, you can quit whenever you want. But at some point you have changed, you no longer can quit. You start posting islamophobic drivel all over the internet: BECAUSE YOU LOST CONTROL! That is the damage, but it is one I avoid not because I am too weak or sensitive, but because my mind is strong enough to keep itself on a healthy diet. I recommend the same for you, Runaway. Although it may already be too late.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday June 28 2017, @11:27PM
Don't worry about control - obviously, someone is controlling you already.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @02:57AM (2 children)
You're aware that the Westboro Baptist Church aren't the only Christians who hold similar beliefs?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @04:23AM (1 child)
No! I wasn't aware of that at all! Maybe because I am not stupid enough to live in Kansas? "Brownback", "Brokeback", it's all the same to me.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @01:28PM
Well, this provides a solution. I say we deport Kansas!
(Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Tuesday June 27 2017, @05:43AM (5 children)
LOL riiight, how many christians have shoved a gay off a building this week? Know any Baptists or Jews that have done any suicide bombings? I'll just leave this here [youtube.com], not that you have the actual ability to learn anything that doesn't fit with your political narrative sadly, what with having been programmed to be a beta filled with self loathing by a higher education system that was taken over by Marxists years ago [youtube.com]. This is why two groups, Islamists and progressives, get along so well BTW, both want the destruction of the west, just for different reasons.
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Tuesday June 27 2017, @05:57AM (2 children)
Ah, once again, the Hairyfeet Challenge! Can you reboot your culture without it puking its guts right back at you, you aged hippy? I am disgusted by your bigotry! You carried the promise of the Age of Aquarius, the smell of Woodstock, Flower Power, the sexual revolution, and this, at long last, is all you are left with. A fear of a medieval version of a monotheistic religion, the same one that the Children of the Sixties rebelled against, and won! way back when. You are the Old Republican characterized in the study, Hairy, look into the mirror. You have become your father, Hairyfeet.
(Oh, and at least Marxist can read, and do math. It is called, "economics")
(Score: 3, Funny) by Hairyfeet on Sunday July 02 2017, @08:44PM (1 child)
Why don't you tell everyone about how you hope the white race is destroyed? You certainly had no qualms bragging about it before. C'mon cuck, lets hear your racist diatribes against all people that look like you do in the mirror.
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Sunday July 02 2017, @09:06PM
Hairyfeet! My, how you have fallen from the old days of shilling for Microsoft! You are reduced to this? OK, to make you feel better, I call for the White Genocide! Yep, kill whitey! Because, you know, there really are no "white" people. There are Britons, and Saxons, and Gaels, and Friesians, and Belgians, and Franks and Goths and Slovenians. Race is not culture, nor ethnicity, nor national identity. So I say, kill it. Death to the White Race, and may it never raise its ugly head again! Death to what never really existed in the first place. Now I hope you, my dear and furry Feet with Hair person, do not identify with this artificial category of skin color, because that would make you racist. And that is about the worst thing an old Hippy can end up being. Say "Hi!" to Archie Bunker for me, Meathead!
(Score: 1) by kurenai.tsubasa on Tuesday June 27 2017, @01:40PM (1 child)
Oh fuck you. At one point after my daddy threw me out of his home and he learned that I hadn't starved to death in a gutter yet, he was threatening to drive to my apartment 50 miles away and finish the job himself.
My daddy isn't the only Christian who's threatened me with violence upon realizing that I'm not the womyn-born-womyn I appear to be. How dare you suggest that Christians are pro-LGBT?
And what do you assholes constantly cite, when you're not being disingenuous hypocrites and suggesting you're pro-LGBT? You cite acceptance of trans women and gay men as your evidence of “Marxism.” You assholes bought into the feminist narrative hook, line, and sinker about bathroom rape. Go to hell.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Wednesday June 28 2017, @10:23AM
I have absolutely nothing to add to this. The "Hairyfeet Challenge" has been definitively answered by kurenai. I hope to never hear of it again.
(Score: 2) by unauthorized on Tuesday June 27 2017, @02:41AM (1 child)
Oh sure, you don't have to suck up to the bully, he will just take your milk money [thereligionofpeace.com] if you don't. No compulsion in religion my ass.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @05:31AM
You fucking coward! I am willing to die for my belief in the Flying Spagetti Monster! We say, "Marinara, to the Death!" So what is your problem, milktoast? Are you afraid to die for your beliefs, because in your heart of hearts, you know you are empty, you have no belief, you have no honor! You only live to pleasure yourself, but you are not even worthy of such feelings! That is why we take your lunch money, you pathetic excuse for a human being! Stand up for yourself! Die for something, anything! As Shephard Book said, "I dont' care what you believe in! Just believe in something!" Now here, read this pamphlet. Jehovah Witlesses. No coercion, just weakness and cowardice on your part. You worm.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday June 27 2017, @12:36AM
Really, Christianity has no doctrine of forcible conversion? What do you think "compel them to come in" means? And do you know how many people took that very literally for how long? Christianity's "enlightenment" is a polite way of saying "God died of a 300 year overdose on logical thought."
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Arik on Tuesday June 27 2017, @01:09AM
It will probably come, but not while the Saudis last.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @06:23AM
Yes, just like the Fundamentalists and other illiterate worshipers of a book. Do you know, that when the bible was translated from Greek, which has articles (for you illiterate Republican Soylentils, things like "a" and "the"), into Latin, (which does not!), they tried to preserve the text by using demonstratives. First Latin Bible was unreadable.
Good things Christians do not have a concept of a perfect man, because their perfect man is not just a prophet, he is Viggo!! you are like the buzzing of flies to him! Xcxcc#(&U excuse me, he is God. So they act in imitatio Dei, or since the fundies cannot read Latin, WWJD.
So, I am left with this impression; This poster is either more ignorant of Christianity than he is of Islam, or, more likely, equally ignorant of both. l mean, when Arik is more right than you are, it is time to be quiet for a bit.
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Tuesday June 27 2017, @03:01AM
Christianity cant even figure out monotheism.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @09:30PM (2 children)
Idiots modded you up, but in fact it was Christians at the core of most democracies. That doesn't fit with your anti-religious vomit, but it's truth. As big as you talk, I'm fairly confident you know little to nothing about any actual religions or any religious people other than hearing that some of them disagree with your lifestyle. That is likely what drives your vitriol. I get it. Nobody likes to hear that someone doesn't like how they live, even if you find their opinions ridiculous. Still, you are overboard with it and quite immature.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday June 27 2017, @09:41PM
You're saying this to someone who's spent nearly 11 years studying the extant mss. of the NT in the original Koine, on top of logic, apologetics and counter-apologetics, comparative religion, and even a bit of OT Hebrew.
Want to walk this one back a little, genius? :)
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Wednesday June 28 2017, @04:38AM
Greek democracies are way pre-Christian. In fact, once the Xtians took over, it took some thousands of years before Greeks got democracy back. Kind of post WWI, and somewhat spotty at that.
Nietzsche was right, Christianity is a slave religion, and it supports totalitarian states. Opus Dei, y'all!!!
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday June 26 2017, @09:18PM (20 children)
Yeah, right. But again, justice has always been blind.
Playing by the rule of law and all that, doesn't it matter anymore?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday June 27 2017, @12:39AM (19 children)
The rule of law. Law says we can pick and choose who we allow into our home. We don't need or want a group of people whose purpose in life is to establish a world spanning empire called Islam.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday June 27 2017, @01:02AM (17 children)
True when applied within the limits of the law.
False - the rule of law says you can't discriminate based on religion.
You can discriminate based on the adhesion of the rules of law - e.g. if, for an individual, respecting some passages in a book requesting the killing of others takes priority over the respect of the criminal law, then you are right in no accepting that person (ever since 1878 [wikipedia.org]).
However, like it or not, the rule of law applies:
1. on a individual (case by case) basis
2. not allowed to be applicable against any religion - ever since 1779 - first amendment to your Constitution. Do you feel like reneging on that contract?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @01:24AM (12 children)
Ideally, we'd declare Islam to be "not a religion" for the purposes of the first amendment. It's a death cult that refuses to recognize our constitution (with first amendment) as the law of the land, and thus should not have the protection of that constitution.
If we can't single out Islam, then we need to shut down all immigration. That gets the job done without any first amendment issues.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday June 27 2017, @01:48AM (10 children)
You can't.
Simply because there's an overwhelming majority of Muslims who chose to discard the "kill the infidels" prescriptions of their holly book. The same way there is an overwhelming majority of Christians and Jews who do the same with their respective holly book.
Suit yourselves. You'll also lose at least 10% on their contribution to science and technology** if considering only the Asian countries [nih.gov] (grads and postgrads counted only). And the linked one is 2013, in the meanwhile the price of a college degree rose by 9% in 2016-2017 alone [collegeboard.org]
--
** if you lose 10% and they are going some other places, those other places will hold an advantage above 10% over you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1) by tftp on Tuesday June 27 2017, @02:57AM (7 children)
But how to recognize those who are not part of that overwhelming majority? How to know who will change over time after the massive propaganda campaign? Those are not the questions that countries worry about when the prospective immigrant belongs to any other religion or is an atheist - those people, aside from an occasional mental case, are not very likely to initiate a crusade against their neighbors. Despite the words in some of their holy books, they don't really consider themselves slaves of their gods. If the god personally appears to them and demands to sacrifice their son, they will call the police instead of obediently following in the footsteps of a biblical hero. The whole concept of Jesus was marketed on love because the theme of "love thy neighbor" aligns well with the natural tendencies of many humans. Another theme of the New Testament is nonresistance to violence, non-interference in affairs of caesars.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday June 27 2017, @03:32AM (6 children)
Convince that overwhelming majority to snitch those who show signs of radicalization?
Minimizing the chances of some individual to radicalize? Like showing respect for them and their culture, assimilating parts of their culture (e.g. some of them do have very nice spices) while asking them to assimilate your culture entirely, instead of calling the derogatory names and discriminating against them even if you don't know any of them individually?
Perhaps. The history shows that Christians rarely chose these paths in practice.
And so, if it is the reality of the behavior that matters more than what the books say, why discriminate "by the book"?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0, Troll) by tftp on Tuesday June 27 2017, @04:31AM (5 children)
Sometimes that works. But there are even purely mathematical reasons why this won't always work. Examples: Jonestown, Heaven's Gate, any established criminal organization... and even the 9/11 perpetrators. Nobody was successful enough to snitch on them to prevent the action. Besides, Quran instructs the believers to help other Muslims. Those who "snitched" violated the Quran; they were Muslims second and citizens first. That is not always the case.
Sure. I'd like to stop by the chop-chop square on Fridays, see how the heads roll. When is the first one opening? Also, we need to forbid the women from driving - or from appearing outside the house without their man and without the sack. And FGM, of course - girls are property, after all, isn't it so, sellable and purchaseable goods at age of nine? Am I respectful enough? If not, there are other aspects of their culture that I'd like to assimilate. For starters, let's burn all paintings that depict people... or use ancient statues for target practice... You are with me so far?
"Sorry, Allah prohibits that. See Quran." Now what?
There is no need to call them derogatory names. I don't do that. It would be childish and ineffective. It's much worse when the people are known for what they actually do. I'm not religious, but the words in the Bible about "for their fruits you will know them" are pretty wise for an ancient society. For their fruits we know them.
Because only one holy book prescribes death to infidels, and only followers of that holy book do what it says. Others, like Christians, hand-wave and say "you know, it's just an allegory."
Naturally, this applies not only to one specific code of behavior that includes religion, but to any framework that is hostile to the given society. You do not introduce wild lions to kindergartens, I hope - and why is that? Because lions are living by laws that are incompatible with human laws. Would you expect the lions to change? You do not import members of MS-13 into your country, I hope - because they are far more likely to maim and kill than to help a grandmother cross the road. Can they be reeducated? Perhaps, on the chair. You, presumably, do not allow members of ISIS to enter your country either. In all these cases admitting those beings (animals and humans) would be reckless. In the vast majority of cases a country does not need any immigrants. In the modern connected world culture and ideas are flowing over fiber cables, not via in-person contacts.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday June 27 2017, @04:56AM (3 children)
Don't be a fool to expect a 100% foolproof solution.
In USA, Anti-abortionist alone [wikipedia.org] is responsible for more terrorist acts than radical Islam [wikipedia.org] (this is not to make a comparison between the risks of terrorism, but to show that you can't expect a 100% foolproof solution against terrorism).
Stupid me, I though you were for a genuine discussion on the subject.
Well, stay there and brew in your own intellectual piss, being afraid of what's outside (home of the brave my ass).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @08:13AM (2 children)
Japan has only had 1 major terrorist attack since the end of World War II. That was 20 years ago.
Tokyo is not a small city! Japan has about 1/3 the population of the USA. Ever wonder why Japan lacks terrorism?
Japan has about 1000 muslims and has about 2 dozen refugees. The government closely monitors all muslims. Bringing in refugees stopped after 2 of them -- out of only 2 dozen -- were convicted of rape. Sample size is an issue, but FWIW that is about an 8% rapist rate.
So there you go, the 100% foolproof solution is obvious: Have zero muslims.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @08:31AM
You have never been to Japan, have you? You are only using this because you found it on some islamophobic website, of racist Axis Power leftovers, didn't you? Do you know what? Your stats also apply to Christians in Japan. About the same numbers. Only the rapists where US servicemen, and they murdered as well. So now Japan is working on getting the Marines out of Okinawa.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday June 27 2017, @08:48AM
Sure, mate, learn whatever you like from examples. Don't come crying when the reality bites your ass [wikipedia.org].
Here, have some more:
* Italy has 2.3% muslim population [wikipedia.org] and not a single Islamic extremist terrorist attack [wikipedia.org]
* Northern Ireland had 1,943 Muslim in 2001 [wikipedia.org] and had two bombing attacks [wikipedia.org] in the same year, none of which were Islamic extremists.
* Peru has a population of 31 millions and about 5000 Muslims [wikipedia.org] - terrorist attack last year [reuters.com], from their own Sendero Luminoso (which were far more active before).
Should I mention Nicaraguan Contras, financed by US? Why bother, it's only one in a long list of terrorist organizations sponsored by US. Al-Qaeda was one of them, the Syrian rebels some others.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @05:36AM
Well, obviously you got the wrong Allah, or the wrong Quran. What are you, some kind of literalist fundamentalist Christian convert who thinks that holy books actually literally mean the simplest stupid explanation that comes into your not too smart and uneducated head? You will burn in hell for such stupidity! Multiple times! Says right in the book!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @08:21AM (1 child)
Depending on how you ask the questions, 10% to 40% of muslims in western society support all that "kill the infidels" stuff.
Obviously, they don't all do this, but they still do agree that it is proper. Muslims don't all go killing infidels because muslims are not especially non-lazy, athletic, well-financed, fearless, and so on. Muslims can be slackers too.
So it is pretty common to have quiet approval and endorsement. The radical muslim kills you, while the moderate muslim smiles and celebrates.
10% science and technology isn't worth the trouble.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday June 27 2017, @08:50AM
Your country, do what you want with it.
Just stay there, please.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @04:39AM
You fucking bigot! And racist! Probably have a very tiny sexual organ, judging by the size of your brain.
You scum bastard racist bastard! You think the US constitution protects anything? Are you completely fucking stupid? (rhetorical question, don't answer, every but you knows the answer.) The Bill of Rights (see how that is named after Bill Clinton, right there?) refers to rights that exist regardless of whether they are recognized by anyone, what we call "human rights" or what they Fondling Fathers called "natural rights". So stupid religious beliefs are protected, whether they are or not.
Death Cults? Christians killed their own god, and they keep doing it every Sunday, if they are Catholic. And they eat their own god, so he can turn to shit! Did you ever think how negative this is? But it is the Christians who are big on death: Branch Dravidian; Jim Jones and the coolaid. Heaven's Gate (maybe not Christian, but got's "Heaven" in the name), Tim McVeigh (blowing up a day-care, for Jesus!). All they are missing is Riddick to come and bring down their Necromancer religion. Rise from the dead, yeah, right. Slaves.
Speaking of slaves, you know who else did not respect the law of the land in America? Yeah, Christians! They used to held escaped slaves runaway1956 from their lawful masters on the Underground Runaway1956 thing. Should have banned them. John Brown, before James Brown. You fucking racist.
We need shut down all immigration to North American (Actually, Turtle Island) retroactively! Out with all these racist European bastards! Out with Richard Spencer! Out with David Duke! Out with Newt Grinch! Out with the Donald, a german immigrant! Until we can figure out just what the heck is going on, all European descendants need to go back. No Christians. And no Methodists!!!
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday June 27 2017, @02:02PM (3 children)
And, what you fail to understand, Islam is not simply a religion. It is a totalitarian regime, giving authority to religious leaders, or imams.
Tell you what - find a couple hundred million Muslims who will proudly proclaim their allegiance to the United States, and submit to US law instead of sharia - I mean, proudly and publicly make that announcement. They'll start dying before the sun sets.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @04:06PM (1 child)
How is this different than several forms of Christianity?
There are even current cases about how good Christians are being bullied for not wanting to make birthday cakes or whatever depicting a gay person. It goes against their beliefs. They gave their authority to their religous leaders--not the government, and certainly not for tolerance of their fellow citizens that may not share their beliefs.
Or may even want to, but feel terribly shamed that they feel the way they do, even if that shame was taught to them in the same Christian religion--and that their biological feelings overtook their spiritual ones and couldn't remain hidden and not be terribly depressed.
There is not much difference between extremists. It is not even religion, it is more of a form of xenophobia under the guise of religion.
Find me a hundred million Christians that can turn the other cheek and I doubt anyone will try to kill them, instead, they'll get berated by their extremist friends, family, and radio personalities that tell them to do otherwise.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday June 27 2017, @11:42PM
"several forms of Christianity?"
The Christian's Holy Book, the New Testament, does NOT direct Christians to kill unbelievers. Obviously, Christians who act like Muslims aren't good Christians.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 27 2017, @09:24PM
Ha ha ha! Runaway!
Your confusion of your delusion with other people's understanding is amusing. You are such a funny guy! If you want a real political system (and economic!) masquerading as a Religion, just look into Mormonism! Or Scientology! Or The Society for Consciousness. Or Identity Christianity. Or the Brotherhood. Or Republicans (also a death cult).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 28 2017, @05:08AM
Unless you rent. Or have a mortgage. What if your bank sells your mortgage to a Muslim bank? And what if they foreclose, 'cause you forgot to pay? You will have to let Muslims, or their agents, and the nice deputy sheriffs, into your house, Runaway. Sorry, sucks to be you!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @09:25PM (2 children)
Let us again worship Bacchus for truly we should return to the old ways of democratic representation by drunken senile pederasts.
(Score: 3, Touché) by bob_super on Monday June 26 2017, @09:33PM (1 child)
"return"?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 26 2017, @09:40PM
Anthony Wiener [wikipedia.org] did nothing wrong.