Here's a statement that would have been unimaginable in previous years: Ubuntu has arrived in the Windows Store. As promised back in May, you can now download a flavor of the popular Linux distribution to run inside Windows 10. It won't compare to a conventional Ubuntu installation, as it's sandboxed (it has limited interaction with Windows) and is focused on running command line utilities like bash or SSH. However, it also makes running a form of Linux relatively trivial. You don't have to dual boot, install a virtual machine or otherwise jump through any hoops beyond a download and ticking a checkbox.
Source: Engadget
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Ubuntu Linux is Available in the Windows Store
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(Score: 5, Insightful) by kaszz on Tuesday July 11 2017, @05:54PM (7 children)
Don't fall for this contain, compartmentalize and crush.
Windows 10 is evil - make sure that OS can't benefit from the FOSS ecosystem.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday July 11 2017, @09:12PM (5 children)
If you're developing for Linux, why would you want to do your development and testing on the Windows Kernel running a "linux personality" that can run Linux user space binaries. Why not develop and test on the genuine Linux kernel that your production system will be running on?
Young people won't believe you if you say you used to get Netflix by US Postal Mail.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by kaszz on Tuesday July 11 2017, @09:37PM (3 children)
Most likely because some boss or IT-department insists on Microsoft infestation everywhere.. because policy.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by DannyB on Tuesday July 11 2017, @09:53PM (2 children)
Here is a more likely scenario. Microsoft will subtly break something such that your system breaks when run on genuine Linux. In a panic, the boss will ask, "Can't we use Windows on the production servers?"
Young people won't believe you if you say you used to get Netflix by US Postal Mail.
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Tuesday July 11 2017, @10:41PM (1 child)
That IS a good point. Any ideas on counteraction?
Compliance library that test the system before going ahead? "This system is borked, all problems are your own".
(Score: 3, Insightful) by DannyB on Wednesday July 12 2017, @12:55PM
Counteraction? Cut Microsoft out completely.
Your development and testing system should be as close as possible to the actual production system. If you tested this drug in mice, then it is obviously safe for use in humans.
Young people won't believe you if you say you used to get Netflix by US Postal Mail.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Arik on Tuesday July 11 2017, @09:41PM
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 12 2017, @02:02AM
I see it as Windows used (not users) now have an officially sanctioned pathway to upgrade their systems. And having once tasted Ubuntu, they may yeah even (oh horror), discover other distros that are even better.
Yet sadly so many, programmed by the Blue Screen of Death, will choose the Blue Pill, over and over....
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 11 2017, @05:55PM (18 children)
Most people who would want this are developers, and they all run such overpowered machines that it's trivial to run real Ubuntu in a VM, also without having to reboot.
(Score: 3, Informative) by LoRdTAW on Tuesday July 11 2017, @06:01PM (4 children)
If all they need is ssh and a few unix utils, use Cygwin and call it a day.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 11 2017, @06:50PM (3 children)
I prefer MSYS and MinGW and you should too.
(Score: 3, Informative) by LoRdTAW on Tuesday July 11 2017, @06:59PM (2 children)
For native cross-platform POSIX development, yes (at least in the case of MinGW). If you need an actual unix command line and ALL associated tools, you can't beat Cygwin.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 12 2017, @01:42PM (1 child)
They both have horrible package- and update-management, for that alone it is worth running Ubuntu...
Most people running them probably never install any security updates (especially since both projects as far as I can tell don't even HAVE a security team).
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Wednesday July 12 2017, @02:18PM
Horrible package management? Admittedly it's odd, but re downloading the setup utility and running it to grab packages and updates is not exactly rocket science. And if you like apt, there is always apt-cyg which gives you apt like control of upgrading and installing packages.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by canopic jug on Tuesday July 11 2017, @06:06PM (6 children)
Why, you ask? It's about keeping control and preventing exposure to better technology. The goal is to steer fools away from a proper Linux experience and provide something as broken as they can get away with to ensure the most negative experience possible. M$ is not new to this game. They used to advertise use of their own virtual machine to run various Linux distros. The reality was that those VMs never worked and any jackass dumb enough to try to base a course around such products ended using up all the class time, over the whole term, just dorking around with Windoze trying to get the VM to boot.
Money is not free speech. Elections should not be auctions.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by frojack on Tuesday July 11 2017, @06:56PM (5 children)
They are running a (almost certainly crippled) Ubuntu in a container. A container (in this instance) is a just thin wrapper around the GPL.
Still, using the free Microsoft Virtual PC you can run the full Ubuntu or any other Linux. (Yes, I know you glibly asserted that never worked, but I've used it in the past and I assure you it did work). And far more capable Virtualization platforms are freely available.
So I doubt your "Preventing exposure" theory.
Anyone with a conceptual grasp of running linux or a need to run Linux in or out of a container or virtual machine would certainly already know about "Better Technology". The theory that this is to provide SSH capability to windows also seems bogus, since that is freely available (without the constraints of a container).
You have to realize that Microsoft itself did not provide this package. Microsoft simply ALLOWED it in the store. The publisher is Canonical Group Limited. One has to wonder how much of their remaining sliver of soul they had to sell in order to get Microsoft to agree to this.
I'd be wondering if they even provide a scripting interface to the container. Doing so could be seen as making it an option part of the Windows release, which starts treading very close to certain interpretations of the GPL.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 11 2017, @07:45PM
Well bless their heart.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 11 2017, @07:55PM (2 children)
A container (in this instance) is a just thin wrapper around the GPL.
Wat
(Score: 2, Disagree) by frojack on Tuesday July 11 2017, @08:36PM (1 child)
Think about it. I'm sure even an AC can get the concept.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 12 2017, @07:04AM
The GPL is a license, even metaphorically it doesn't make sense as no container for the GPL is needed to run userland utilities on Windows.
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Tuesday July 11 2017, @09:40PM
Next.. would they allow say OpenBSD the same way?
(Score: 2) by theluggage on Tuesday July 11 2017, @07:54PM (5 children)
When I tried it a few months ago, it was very much "work in progress" and using a VM was a better solution - but it showed promise.
I suspect, though, the long-term goal is containerisation. Currently, you get to choose between Windows Containers (which can only provide Windows sandboxes) or a Linux-based container system like Docker - but with this Linux subsystem for Windows, potentially, Windows Contaners could offer a mix of Windows and Linux sandboxes on the same machine (more efficiently than having lots of VMs).
If MS don't offer something soon, bright sparks might think of installing Wine on Docker - and then who needs Windows? (I'll give some other soylentil the pleasure of showing that's already been done).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 11 2017, @08:14PM (2 children)
I have to wonder what happens to "Linux" when Windoze bluescreens/locks up/crashes/gets pwned?
What happens when MICROS~1 decides it's time for an update and seizes control of the box for part of an hour?
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by frojack on Tuesday July 11 2017, @08:34PM (1 child)
What? You've never seen Linux Crash all by itself?
How is this different, other than you can fairly simply backup the entire container?
The linux process will just get very few cycles. And even if Windows 10 decided to force a reboot, (which it is actually pretty good about avoiding when something is running), it would gracefully shut down any well behaved running tasks. That's the nice thing about containers - they usually behave.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by gawdonblue on Tuesday July 11 2017, @10:25PM
You're correct about Windows not crashing as much as it used to. Neither Windows nor Linux crash often these days, and usually only from hardware faults.
However, in regular use of Windows 7, 10, and various Server editions at work the main problem with them all is that they still can become slow & unresponsive and require a reboot. As a precaution my current employer still schedules regular reboots for Windows and architects our Windows servers in pairs with load-balancing so that we can maintain uptime (which in turn adds complexity to our Windows service software). We don't have similar slowdowns to Linux and rely on single instances to do the job and usually only shutdown during a full planned outage.
Just my observations from supporting various OSes over the years. Hopefully it's as valid as yours.
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Tuesday July 11 2017, @09:34PM
Neither Wine or ReactOS is sufficiently compatible to be a full replacement. But what is interesting is to deport Windows-10 into a VM where the host for the VMs runs some Unix.
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Wednesday July 12 2017, @11:45AM
who needs Windows?
2000 called, they want their quesiton back.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by bob_super on Tuesday July 11 2017, @06:01PM (15 children)
One fun thing about MS adding linux compatibility in W10: our tools exist in both Win and Lin flavors, and the linux version runs 10-20% faster when running in the W10 bash shell than the native Windows tools on the same machine (running the linux version in a linux install is the fastest)
Makes me wonder how much faster other tools are running in bash or this new Ubuntu env than in native windows...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 11 2017, @06:05PM (7 children)
Really. The first thing that comes to mind is MS will find a way for Ubuntu to become infected...
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Tuesday July 11 2017, @06:12PM (6 children)
systemd?
I think there was some Linux distribution that added a phone-home on the search feature or such.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday July 11 2017, @06:53PM (3 children)
That *was* Ubuntu, and it was sending search info to Amazon. Ubuntu has disappeared up its own ass.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Arik on Tuesday July 11 2017, @07:52PM (2 children)
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday July 11 2017, @08:39PM (1 child)
Yeah, if there's one company the term "cultural appropriation" can actually be unironically levelled at, it's Canonical. They've gone from ostensibly embracing the Zulu concept of "ubuntu" (roughly "we are one/humans are because humanity is") to a bunch of literal latte-swilling hipsters. Their forum measures post count with coffeebeans FFS.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Tuesday July 11 2017, @09:28PM
I.I.II hahahavvvve.e.e.e.e n..onono aa.b.b.b.ssti.n.n.enence! *shake*shake*
Classic case of fingers programming but the brain won't keep up and the resulting code ends up being code salad? ;-)
At least the PR department planning author may suffer ;)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 12 2017, @02:50AM (1 child)
The April 2016 release disabled the Ubuntu Shopping Lens by default. [google.com]
It was something they tried and they responded to the negative feedback appropriately.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Wednesday July 12 2017, @06:42PM
The big problem is that they even tried it. It's like the Belkin router MITM attack from the manufacturer. It should not even be attempted.
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Tuesday July 11 2017, @09:31PM (6 children)
What does the tool do? and do you have the timing data available?
Have you checked that the timing mechanism in win10/vm-linux is accurate using external means?
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday July 11 2017, @09:48PM (5 children)
Synthesize, place and route FPGAs. Takes between 20 minutes and many hours, and we checked the wall clock and the timestamps.
I don't know how Linux interpretation in Win10 could be that much faster than raw Win10 native executables from a similar codebase. It probably has a lot to do with the compiler directives being optimized better for the Linux ones, including but not limited to the different way the memory is used (it's highly memory-intensive, with huge logic databases). Or some of the linux emulation routines are better than the native OS they run on, which would be quite odd.
Just an odd fun data point to highlight: software compiled for linux running faster in W10 than its native W10 counterpart.
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Tuesday July 11 2017, @10:38PM (4 children)
Memory handling and compiler optimizations seems likely as you say.
On the hardware side for synthesize, place and route FPGA. It seems a fast memory bus and definitely a large processor cache (Lx) speeds up completion of the task. Is that your experience too? additional tips?
Additional cores should be a good thing but utilization of those seems dismal for this kind of application.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday July 11 2017, @11:07PM (3 children)
(definitely offtopic)
Lots of bandwidth, lots of cache, and high clock speeds are definitely more important than going beyond 8 cores. The Xilinx tools only use 8 cores briefly, and spend a lot of time between 1 and 4 (that's slowly getting better). So single thread optimum throughput, with enough memory architecture to cycle through an 8 to 32 GB chunk of RAM used for the database...
The new i9-7820 seems like the best bang for the buck, until we get specs and benchmarks for Ryzen 9. At the cost of the waiting engineer, the i9 is still likely to win even if it's 50% more expensive.
I wouldn't look at server parts: the slower cores are not our friend, and I have never noticed a need for ECC (YMMV). I just wish my PHB would get that.
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Tuesday July 11 2017, @11:54PM (2 children)
Is the Xilinx tool spending so much time in a single core that having 2 or 4 is in the area of diminishing returns? From your experiences it seems 2 cores is almost an optimal point. A finer optimization is if it's more important with local processor cache vs fast memory bus, if one has to choose one over the other.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday July 12 2017, @12:16AM (1 child)
In the last 3 years, they moved a lot of the single-threaded stuff to 2 and 4 threads (Syn, Route), so not having at least 4 cores is a costly savings.
Having at least HT to accommodate the parts where they can spawn 8 threads will save time (reports). But if a company is paying engineers, there is no reason to skimp on $900 for a 8/16 chip+mobo (1500ish for a headless machine) to give each thread its own core. I suspect future Vivado versions will keep trying to add more threads as chips get bigger but clocks don't get faster.
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Wednesday July 12 2017, @02:29AM
So even they can make progress ;) Is the UI still crap and crashy? such that makefiles makes the day?
Is there some kind of powerful shared server pool for doing the synthesis or is everyone doing that on their own workstation?
Any preferences on DRAM types or is it just the more Gbit/s the better? I noticed that anything above DDR2 have significant latency times for random access when looking at the communication setup.
What's a Vivado version?
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 11 2017, @07:01PM
Does it come with a drinky-bird of a penguin that pecks your pecker until you cum?
(Score: 3, Funny) by J_Darnley on Tuesday July 11 2017, @09:16PM
Biggest question: do they provide the source?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 12 2017, @07:47AM
Stallman was right. This is an example of why you should say GNU/Linux and not just Linux.
Why?
Because this is NOT Ubuntu GNU/Linux, it's Ubuntu GNU/NT. There is no Linux involved anywhere.