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posted by Fnord666 on Sunday July 16, @02:25AM   Printer-friendly
from the all-your-face-are-belong-to-us dept.

"Congress allowed the government to scan faces of foreign nationals to keep track of visa overstays. But now that's set to be extended to Americans worrying some privacy advocates."


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  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @02:40AM (17 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @02:40AM (#539756)

    Will you let us exit the country and file our renunciation at an embassy without getting our faces scanned?

    Because some of us are ready to take our chances on the outside...

    Fuck America and fuck the pussies that let these authoritarian assholes slowly erode both our privacy and our liberties!

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @02:59AM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @02:59AM (#539759)
      All this bitching about how rough you have it in america.
      How you hate everything american that isn't degenerate trash.

      Yet you don't leave it.
      • (Score: 2) by takyon on Sunday July 16, @03:12AM

        by takyon (881) <{takyon} {at} {soylentnews.org}> on Sunday July 16, @03:12AM (#539764) Journal

        Don't you get it? Anonymous Coward would have their face scanned if they try to leave. Anonymous Coward no more.

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      • (Score: 2) by mhajicek on Sunday July 16, @01:51PM (1 child)

        by mhajicek (51) on Sunday July 16, @01:51PM (#539889)

        America has abandoned American principles.

        • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @04:36PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @04:36PM (#539930)

          There's nowhere else to go.

          The places where American principles seem to exist only do because the local governments are too underfunded or too incompetent to implement their authoritarianism.

    • (Score: 5, Informative) by kaszz on Sunday July 16, @03:14AM (5 children)

      by kaszz (4211) on Sunday July 16, @03:14AM (#539765) Journal

      There are scanless ways out if you just think about it.

      However renunciation is not free:
      1776: Free (1)
      2010: 450 US$ (1)
      2014: 2350 US$ (2)(3)(4)(5)

      And to leave leave America, you generally must prove 5 years of U.S. tax compliance. (3)

      (1) https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128414887 [npr.org]
      (2) https://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2014/231128.htm [state.gov]
      (3) https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2014/08/28/u-s-hikes-fee-to-renounce-citizenship-by-422/ [forbes.com]
      (4) https://news.yahoo.com/renouncing-u-s--citizenship-is-about-to-get-a-lot-more-expensive-150405883.html [yahoo.com]
      (5) https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2014/08/28/2014-20516/schedule-of-fees-for-consular-services-department-of-state-and-overseas-embassies-and#p-amd-2 [federalregister.gov]

      This more and more is taking on the shapes of some combined pre-WWII Germany + USSR. Which also had the policy of deep exit tax and exit like visas.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @03:29AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @03:29AM (#539774)

        Costs for renunciation are over 3k now, possibly up to 5k. As to taxes: You're supposed to be keeping them for 7 years IN the US, so if you are kosher 5 years is nothing.

        And yes the questionable policy decisions are making it harder and harder to morally justify remaining in America. Most people just lack the brains, breadth of tech knowledge, and knowledge of history to understand the full ramifications of what is happening, both in the US and in other 'free' countries around the world.

        The situation is not going to be fixed since the populace either supports or doesn't care enough to protest, which means the only options remaining are outside of the respective countries immediate sphere of influence. Foreign influence may still find you dealing with objectionable actions, outside of their legal boundaries you can DO something about it, if the need arises and for better or worse consequences whether economic or militarily.

        • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Thursday July 20, @01:26AM

          by kaszz (4211) on Thursday July 20, @01:26AM (#541735) Journal

          Considering salary for qualified positions and business opportunities vs IRS stomping, housing and pay it all healthcare etc. Is it still a profitable deal?

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @03:51AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @03:51AM (#539782)

        "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

      • (Score: 2) by Whoever on Sunday July 16, @04:40AM (1 child)

        by Whoever (4524) on Sunday July 16, @04:40AM (#539796)

        Depending on how wealthy you are, the fees may be trivial in comparison to the tax (section 877A), which also applies to Green Card holders who leave the USA.

        • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Sunday July 16, @09:08AM

          by kaszz (4211) on Sunday July 16, @09:08AM (#539844) Journal

          Correct. But they are substantial especially for the middle class. And you may have to pay a lawyer familiar with local tax laws + US tax laws. And.. pay at least 5 years of "proper" taxes.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @06:20AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @06:20AM (#539819)

      Per the fine summary:
      You'd be treated either like a US citizen (and have your face scanned), or as a foreigner (and have your face scanned).

      Fiat they came for the foreigners, and you didn't stop them because it wasn't about you. Blow they're coming for the rest, and there are no foreigners to step up for you.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @08:43AM (5 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @08:43AM (#539840)

      Why don't you fix your own country instead of coming over here expecting a handout?

      signed: The rest of the world

      • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Sunday July 16, @09:10AM (4 children)

        by kaszz (4211) on Sunday July 16, @09:10AM (#539845) Journal

        Sometimes you wake up to the fact that your fellow countrymen are complete idiots and you need to leave..

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @01:00PM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @01:00PM (#539881)

          If you think only the US has idiots and and idiot politicians... you
          may be an idiot.

          • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Sunday July 16, @09:56PM (2 children)

            by Grishnakh (2831) Subscriber Badge on Sunday July 16, @09:56PM (#540045)

            No one thinks that. There's plenty of places with even more idiots; Syria comes to mind at the moment, plus Somalia, and many other such places. It should be pretty obvious that the OP thinks there's some select countries where the idiot density is lower than the US, which I think is quite likely. Go travel to Japan for instance and check out the infrastructure; it makes the US look like Somalia by comparison (i.e., bullet trains vs. Amtrak). Even Turkey has a better train system than the northeast US.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 17, @07:14AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 17, @07:14AM (#540210)

              Uh Syria is messed up because of the USA and its allies. Not really because of a higher than average density of idiots.

              Years ago the USA wanted to overthrow Syria so the USA imposed sanctions: http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/11/us.syria/ [cnn.com]
              Then when the sanctions started biting, it sponsored the Syrian opposition: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-syria-wikileaks-idUSTRE73H0E720110418 [reuters.com]

              Then when the fighting finally started (I wouldn't be surprised if the CIA or similar helped start the fighting), the US Gov supplied arms to help keep it going: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/21/world/middleeast/cia-said-to-aid-in-steering-arms-to-syrian-rebels.html?pagewanted=all [nytimes.com]

              And the mess is what they and their allies predicted and want.

              Not saying the Syrian Gov are angels. Far from it, but I doubt that the majority of the Syrian people want the extremists that will take over if the the US Gov succeeds. It's not like they can't see the results of the USA's "success" in Libya. I doubt the women making up 13% of the Syrian Parliament would want the ISIS in charge.

              If overthrowing the Syrian Gov can be justified, wouldn't the Russians or China overthrowing the US Gov be justifiable too? After all the US Gov is evil and corrupt too and has been responsible for even more deaths than Assad's Government. It's hard for me to say that Trump would be a better leader than Assad... ;)

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 17, @04:37PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 17, @04:37PM (#540377)

              It should be pretty obvious that the OP thinks there's some select countries where the idiot density is lower than the US, which I think is quite likely.

              I think they mean the density of like-minded idiots is higher.

  • (Score: 2) by takyon on Sunday July 16, @03:09AM (1 child)

    by takyon (881) <{takyon} {at} {soylentnews.org}> on Sunday July 16, @03:09AM (#539762) Journal

    I was sure I submitted this but I checked and couldn't find it. Thanks for subbing it, anon.

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    [SIG] 04/14/2017: Soylent Upgrade v13 [soylentnews.org]
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @03:10AM (10 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @03:10AM (#539763)

    Soon you will be monitored, photographed, recorded and scanned every time you step out of your house. For the sake of the children and to protect you from terrorists. Only a criminal would even think to complain about it. You don't have anything to hide, do you?

    • (Score: 2) by takyon on Sunday July 16, @03:15AM (5 children)

      by takyon (881) <{takyon} {at} {soylentnews.org}> on Sunday July 16, @03:15AM (#539766) Journal

      You forgot microchipped. In your ass cheek.

      Make it so that body heat or glucose can power it and you can have an active transmitter.

      --
      [SIG] 04/14/2017: Soylent Upgrade v13 [soylentnews.org]
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @03:32AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @03:32AM (#539777)

        For body heat to power it there needs to be a heat sink. If it's totally surrounded by butt flesh there won't be much of a temperature gradient, except when there's an ice cube touching one side.

        • (Score: 2) by legont on Sunday July 16, @06:59PM

          by legont (4179) on Sunday July 16, @06:59PM (#539969)

          Let it use glucose and be sold as a diet device.

          --
          "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
      • (Score: 2) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Sunday July 16, @06:09AM (1 child)

        by Rosco P. Coltrane (4757) on Sunday July 16, @06:09AM (#539816)

        You forgot microchipped. In your ass cheek.
        Make it so that body heat or glucose can power it and you can have an active transmitter.

        Make it fat-powered and the chip will have unlimited power in the US.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @02:23PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @02:23PM (#539893)

          Make it burn enough fat without exercise and you'll have trouble keeping up with demand.

      • (Score: 2) by mhajicek on Sunday July 16, @03:55PM

        by mhajicek (51) on Sunday July 16, @03:55PM (#539914)

        Put it deep in the wrist so you kill yourself if you try to remove it.

    • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Sunday July 16, @03:17AM (1 child)

      by kaszz (4211) on Sunday July 16, @03:17AM (#539767) Journal

      "Our cameras noticed that your wife is pretty. So we take her for her own protection."
          //Special investigations(tm)

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @02:25PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @02:25PM (#539894)
        That sounds more like the clintons. And your children.
    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday July 16, @03:49AM (1 child)

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Sunday July 16, @03:49AM (#539781)

      It doesn't stop at the home - you can be scanned infra-red, radar, and WiFi interference patterns through your home walls, videoed through windows, etc.

      It has been done to celebrities for decades, Andy Warhol was a lightweight - we're all getting 15+ years of fame in the future, thanks to the advancement of monitoring technology.

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @05:12AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @05:12AM (#539804)

        You missed the obvious... All those webcams and microphones and even speakers (software can pipe the mic input to the speakers) you think are off

  • (Score: 2) by Lagg on Sunday July 16, @03:17AM

    by Lagg (105) Subscriber Badge on Sunday July 16, @03:17AM (#539769) Homepage Journal

    I already gave up on that dream before you said it was cool!

    Also I'm pretty sure like most things as of late it's something they've always wanted to do anyway. Worrying with good reason. They might not even have malicious intent. Just history has proven multiple branches have just the biggest hardon for "just in case" hoarding of information.

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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Justin Case on Sunday July 16, @03:24AM (7 children)

    by Justin Case (4239) Subscriber Badge on Sunday July 16, @03:24AM (#539770)

    Americans who still remember what it was like to live in a free country say Homeland Security "Shouldn't Exist".

    --
    Software controls the world. Hardware controls software. China controls hardware.
    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @03:32AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @03:32AM (#539776)

      Say Welcome to Soviet Amerika, comrade.

      Literally everything my gradeschool teacher ranted at us as a sign of Soviet Russia's authoritarian rule has been implemented in America, up to the level of KGB-esque spying, informants, etc.

      Remember to support the party, comrade. Otherwise expedited trip to gulag free for you!

    • (Score: 5, Informative) by isostatic on Sunday July 16, @03:41AM (1 child)

      by isostatic (365) on Sunday July 16, @03:41AM (#539780) Journal

      Americans who still remember what it was like to live in a free country say Homeland Security "Shouldn't Exist".

      So that rules out pretty much anyone under the age of 30. Another 10 years of this and it will be the majority.

      • (Score: 2) by krishnoid on Sunday July 16, @03:58AM

        by krishnoid (1156) on Sunday July 16, @03:58AM (#539784)

        I've sometimes said I wish I had been born 60 years later. By then technology's barriers would be the size of the atom, the individual photon, and the speed of light, and we'd start getting into a whole new class of interesting problems. Societally, though, I now have to wonder what the other technology advances will enable by then.

        We still have the US constitution and EU privacy laws, though ... here's hoping.

    • (Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @10:58AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @10:58AM (#539865)

      You haven't been free to marry cute young girls for a century or more.

      • (Score: 1, Offtopic) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday July 17, @01:46AM

        by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Monday July 17, @01:46AM (#540116)

        Fuck off, Kavaratshkelia. We all know it's you. You couldn't get married to anything if your life depended on it you goddamn paedophile.

    • (Score: 2) by tibman on Sunday July 16, @08:02PM

      by tibman (134) Subscriber Badge on Sunday July 16, @08:02PM (#539993)

      You realize that those same Americans implemented this.

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    • (Score: 2) by dry on Monday July 17, @04:28AM

      by dry (223) on Monday July 17, @04:28AM (#540173)

      Are there actually Americans that old? America has been about removing freedoms for a long time, though I guess if you are a member of the right class, this is new.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @03:26AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @03:26AM (#539772)

    Before you know it, the DPRK will be asking the US in amazement on how it was able to pull this shit off, because they too will want what we will 'have' here soon.

  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @04:01AM (9 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @04:01AM (#539785)

    Other modern countries like New Zealand already do this. While I always opt out of the back scatter machines (irrational fear of cancer), I honestly have no issue with having my photo taken. Everyone here has a driver's license right?

    What concerns me more is career politicians that encourage violating federal immigration and election law as a "sanctuary city". Gives them a free pass on issues like gun violence, welfare fraud, and running pension deficits for years without a budget in place. "Sanctuary city" is code for voter fraud happens here.

    The legal immigration process isn't that bad, and have no issue with bringing over the best and brightest. Wife helped a few family members go through it recently.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @04:19AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @04:19AM (#539790)

      It's at least three cameras pulling a *FULL FACIAL* photograph anytime you want to board a plane. This was discussed a while back. They are basically making 3d images of your face.

      Why should this concern you?

      Because it makes it that much easier to place you somewhere when they want to convict you of a crime in the future, even if you've never been there in you life. Just get a guy wearing one of those hollywood greenscreen masks with markers for skeletal positioning, then take the 3d modelled head and overlap it (maybe inside of a hoodie in order to obscure details, and viola, you are now the prime suspect in a robbery, murder, or other government orchestrated event, allowing them try you in front of a jury of your peers too stupid to get out of jury duty or with a law enforcement friendly background. Enjoy your felony loss of privileges and/or 10-life in prison.

      See if you can keep laughing about it in a few presidential terms when it has come to pass.

      • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @04:38AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @04:38AM (#539795)

        Just wondering if I can substitute a violin for the viola you mentioned as part of the imposter's outfit? What if the target preferred a harmonica? Could a jew's harp be substituted?

        So many questions, so few answers. I just wish I could imagine something, and voila!, a viola, or jew's harp, would appear.

        cheers,

      • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @11:00AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @11:00AM (#539868)

        You oppose the will of the God written of in the Old Testament Book of the Law.

        You are against men marrying young girls.

        You deserve your fate.

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @04:19AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @04:19AM (#539791)

      It's not an irrational fear of cancer. When they give out the irradiation figures for those machines, they apply it to bodyweight and say it is a low dose, but the wavelength they use is all stopped within a millimetre or two of the surface of the skin. What would be a low dose spread oveer the whole body is actually a high dose for a small part of the body.
      And thats assuming that the machines are adjusted correctly - a big assumption when they are being run by semi-trained kiddie-groping monkeys.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 17, @07:23AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 17, @07:23AM (#540213)

        Backscatter x-ray machines use x-rays... Millimeter wave scanners use lower frequencies which are less damaging assuming they only go 2 millimetres deep: https://www.propublica.org/special/scanning-the-scanners-a-side-by-side-comparison [propublica.org]

        If it's not x rays and really stopped by the skin then I'm not as worried. The skin is exposed to all sorts of cancer causing crap everyday. Sunlight, toxins, physical trauma. Skin cancer detection and survival rates are better than many internal cancers.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 18, @02:54AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 18, @02:54AM (#540716)

          NO! SOME skin cancers do. Melanoma, you're golden - it has ~98% survival in the USA! But there are LOTS of skin cancers which are > 80% mortal, too.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @04:26AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @04:26AM (#539792)

      So, you're a terrorist, then?

      See how this works?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @07:31AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @07:31AM (#539831)

      Everyone here has a driver's license right?

      The problem is that they're conducting mass surveillance on the populace using facial recognition technology and other methods, which will destroy freedom and democracy. This isn't simply a matter of having your picture taken and having it appear on a card.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @02:57PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @02:57PM (#539900)

      Australia already has.
      Now they want biometrics including retinal scan too, but there is tech to get that from a meter away now.

  • (Score: 2) by turgid on Sunday July 16, @08:29AM (1 child)

    by turgid (4318) on Sunday July 16, @08:29AM (#539836) Journal

    It'll be beautiful.

    --
    Don't let Righty keep you down.
    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @02:00PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @02:00PM (#539891)

      And paint the Whitehouse Red.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @04:25PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @04:25PM (#539928)

    I'm a felon, most other countries wouldn't even let me in!

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @07:26PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16, @07:26PM (#539980)
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