Submitted via IRC for TheMightyBuzzard
Microsoft sparked fury when it aggressively pushed its Windows 10 operating system onto people's PCs – from unexpected downloads to surprise installations.
Now a consumer rights group has forced Redmond to promise it will never do it again, in Germany at least.
In 2015, Microsoft offered existing Windows 7 and 8 users a free upgrade to its new cloud-friendly OS, and rapidly become increasingly ambitious about getting it onto machines. After bundling the upgrade alongside its monthly security patches and resorting to tricky tactics, loads of users found they were downloading gigabytes of unwanted Redmond code.
This riled a lot of folks, but Germany – one of the few countries that takes consumer rights seriously – actually took action. The Consumer Center in Baden-Württemberg filed a cease-and-desist complaint against Redmond regarding the practice, and the software giant has unexpectedly caved and promised never to do it again.
"We would have wished for an earlier introduction, but the levy is a success for more consumer rights in the digital world," said Cornelia Tausch, CEO of the Center.
Source: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/23/microsoft_windows_10_updates_germany/
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday August 26 2017, @06:34AM (6 children)
Levy? What levy?
TFA as clear as mud in this respect
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by lx on Saturday August 26 2017, @06:43AM (5 children)
After reading the German and from context I think they mean "concession" instead of "levy". German native speakers feel free to correct me.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday August 26 2017, @07:17AM (2 children)
Germans are about pandering to Jews and literally eating turd-logs. That is, they eat human shit. Nothing they do nowadays surprises me.
(Score: 4, Funny) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday August 26 2017, @08:05PM
Sorry, guys. Any other nationality he'd picked I would have let the Spam mod stand but the fact of the matter is, Germans are indeed the world champions of shit-eating. Up until the past five years, if you saw a shit-eating video on the Internet it was all but guaranteed to be German in origin. I can't in good conscience let the mod stand when he's factually correct.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 26 2017, @09:37PM
Quit saying stupid things!
(Score: 3, Informative) by Arik on Saturday August 26 2017, @07:23AM
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 26 2017, @11:14AM
El Reg's translation is just utter shite, bruv. Disclaimer: I'm no teacher, just a native speaker. Gonna try to explain the fuckup as best as I can.
In German the action undertaken by Microsoft as per the headline in the primary source (Verbraucherzentrale) is "eine Unterlassungserklärung abgeben"[1], which in a very literal translation (like letting the Google Translate app on your mobile do it) might come out as "to hand over a declaration of discontinuance". At this point, the meaning should have been clear to whoever hacked together the article. However...
Later in the text, "abgeben" is nominalized to "Abgabe"[2], which as a noun has a few alternative meanings - such as " levy". None of these make any sense in the context though.
So the author's "translation" has the predicate ("Abgabe") confused for the object ("einer Unterlassungserklärung").
The Unterlassungserkärung is (probably same as a declaration of discontinuance but IANAL) a legally binding contract, usually with a penalty clause. So this is an actual victory for consumer rights, just a little too late =/
[1] "Microsoft gibt Unterlassungserklärung ab"; "gibt ... ab" being 3rd person singular form of "abgeben"
[2] "Microsoft hat sich mit der Abgabe einer Unterlassungserklärung..."
(Score: 2) by Arik on Saturday August 26 2017, @06:53AM (6 children)
They should have to reimburse wasted bandwidth, tech support for recovery, and nuisance damages.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Saturday August 26 2017, @07:49AM (5 children)
I've read the German text. The relevant part is already in the title:
The key word here is "Unterlassungserklärung" [wikipedia.org]. This is by definition a legally binding statement.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 4, Informative) by maxwell demon on Saturday August 26 2017, @07:53AM (1 child)
Sorry for the self reply; I just noticed that the first paragraph also has an important extra information:
"Strafbewehrte Unterlassungserklärung means that it is not only legally binding, but it also includes an explicit penalty clause.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 26 2017, @09:23AM
Strawberries? What does delicious fruit have to do with this?
(Score: 2) by Arik on Saturday August 26 2017, @08:21AM (2 children)
Reading languages I don't know is fun.
"Eine Unterlassungserklärung (auch Unterwerfungserklärung) ist eine Erklärung, in der sich der Erklärende verpflichtet, eine beanstandete Handlung in Zukunft nicht vorzunehmen."
Let's see, eine is a/an, ist is is, nicht is not, those are easy. And Erklärung is just obvious from common Germanic, that has to mean explanation. Verpflichtet is gifflicted, afflicted by means of gift, obliged. Beanstandete is together+standing, communal? Collective? Social? Something like that. Handlung is handling, 'action' is probably a good translation to modern English. This is legalese so I am thinking 'beanstandete handlung' probably means 'class action' actually. Vorzunehmen, predictably, the last word of the sentence broke me. Couldn't figure out a translation that made any sense, looked it up. "To undertake."
So here's my ignorant American translation of that sentence:
"An *Unterlassungserklärung* (also *Unterwerfungserklärung*) is an explanation, in which the explaining obliges, without requiring a class-action to be undertaken."
Very good, as far as I can see that link does seem to back you up.
Alright, now I'll wait for someone that actually knows German to tell me if I was funny or not.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 26 2017, @09:21AM (1 child)
- "Erklärung" in the sense used here is actually a statement, not an explanation.
- You missed "sich" in the middle construct. "Sich verpflichten" means "to obligate oneself".
- "beanstandet" does come from the roots you guessed, but its meaning is completely different: it's "standing together" in the sense of "similar", or "under discussion". So "beanstandete handlung" means "a similar action". The last part of the sentence therefore means "to not undertake a similar action in the future".
(Score: 2) by Arik on Saturday August 26 2017, @09:36AM
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by anubi on Saturday August 26 2017, @08:05AM (4 children)
Isn't it to everyone's interest that Microsoft be allowed to piss off its customers?
The faster Microsoft ditches trust and confidence, the more Microsoft causes problems for their customers, the faster we can all have a universal system that no one entity can control and force their business model on unwilling adopters.
Remember that Microsoft update right in the middle of a live TV weather report? [youtube.com] Something like that is funny on something like live TV, but this kind of stuff would wreak havoc if that computer was running, say, a bottling plant. Can you imagine the mess? Heck, I ended up ditching an HMI I bought when I turned it on and the Microsoft logo popped up. I can't trust it any more than those stinkin' FTDI USB/RS232 chips that were being nuked by a Microsoft Update. I ended up changing the design on every friggen board to a CH340 to make sure that did not happen to MY stuff.
If one is selling pigs in a poke, best sell them to someone who would not recognize what a pig looked like if it was staring him in the face.
Preferably someone with a lot of money, given authority without responsibility, cherishes hand shaking, and knows nothing about pigs.
Incidentally, I was so glad to see our new CNC machine had no Microsoft crap in it. It just comes up and runs. I know good and well we probably would not have a Microsoft machine run a year before we got a window popping up, demanding some update, likely right in the middle of a machining run, with all the consideration for the customer that a television advertiser has. When you are big enough, you can make an incredible ass of yourself, and none of your "locked-in" customers can do a damned thing about it.
They can't even fix the damned thing without running into DRM, IP, and copyright problems. All they can do is beg and pay. Only big corporations that have highly paid CEO's and Managers have budgets big enough to write off this kind of stuff. Few people have the moxie to tell some highly paid CEO to take responsibility when we come back to work and find we don't know how to run our own production system.
I am one of the last guys that when I build something, I expect it to work as designed indefinitely. Like building a solid brick barbeque. I don't want to come back and find the thing doesn't work consistently. I still use a power supply I made over 50 years ago.
Here's another guy's commentary on his WIN10 on a 4 year old system. [youtube.com] Imagine that happening on the production floor. It seems only executives aren't incensed at the liberties other people take on their so called "right" to barge in to one's computer. Would they tolerate this kind of stuff from their landlord as well?
There are many videos of tales of woe on YouTube about people's problems about their stuff getting changed behind their back. They come back and their computer acts different. A common gripe is having to re-register copyrighted and licensed softwares when that software wakes up and realizes its not running in the same environment. I guess its no big thing if its something like some bean counter losing access to his accounts receivables, but it would be a disaster in something like factory automation.
Here's another guy who likes WIN10 and discusses the tactics and security concerns. [youtube.com]
Personally, I had just as soon leave Windows for the Tie Guys and Hand Shakers, and us tool guys use stuff that is consistent and understandable. We have a job to do, and if our tools are flakey, we look bad.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Virindi on Saturday August 26 2017, @09:22AM
Don't worry! There is no way Microsoft is going to stop acting like users' machines are their property. Any promises to the contrary are just to create the illusion of appeasement.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 26 2017, @09:41AM (1 child)
We had a win 10 machine force reboot to update in the middle of an agile demo. So funny.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 26 2017, @07:19PM
Those reboots are so agile they can't be stopped.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 26 2017, @08:38PM
No. What I want is prison time for those in Microsoft who were responsible for tricking people into "updating" to Window 10. There were many people who did NOT want Windows 10 but somehow their computers got it and in some cases their PC stopped working properly (not compatible).
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3014238/windows/get-windows-10-prompt-adopts-malware-like-tactics-to-trick-you-into-upgrading.html [pcworld.com]
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3073457/windows/how-microsofts-nasty-new-windows-10-pop-up-tricks-you-into-upgrading.html [pcworld.com]
If Microsoft is allowed to do tricks with dialog boxes so that people click the wrong thing and software they don't want is installed then why can't malware/crapware people use similar tricks?
Would you go unpunished if you went about upgrading Windows 7 machines to Windows 10 without the owners real permission? e.g. tell them while they aren't paying attention "if you don't say No, you consent to letting me upgrade your PC to Windows 10".
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 26 2017, @10:35AM (1 child)
Any computer that attempts mandatory updates is a machine you don't really own. Some would say that of all closed source software, but in this case, it takes it from the theoretical to the practical. Your computer will run whatever code the company wants you to, for good or for ill. Combined with Microsoft's telemetry and license agreement and fantastic stunts like updates uninstalling software Microsoft deems undesirable due to supposed incompatibility, they own any PC with Windows 10.
Hopefully this will spread to other countries. People have been lulled into a mindless delusion that all updates are inherently good. A lot of security "experts" have fallen all over themselves to parrot this same advice. I'm not sure if this is because the situation is just that bad or because it's the easy and trendy thing to do, but IMNSHO it's at best grossly irresponsible and lazy.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 26 2017, @07:52PM
This whole thing is just more MicroFudge.. dazzle them with lunches, beer/wine and another 'agreement', while shafting the hell out of them in secret. Rinse and repeat for every country, local government, etc... it is the "MicroShaft Way".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 26 2017, @02:25PM (1 child)
In my country we have an expression, to bolt the stable door after the horse has bolted. It means taking precautions against something that has already happened.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 26 2017, @07:21PM
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/shut-close-the-stable-barn-door-after-the-horse-has-bolted [cambridge.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 27 2017, @12:03PM
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/proprietary.html#content [gnu.org]