From mrpg comes an interesting story about how communicating in a foreign language can influence decision making.
If you could save the lives of five people by pushing another bystander in front of a train to his death, would you do it? And should it make any difference if that choice is presented in a language you speak, but isn't your native tongue?
Psychologists at the University of Chicago found in past research that people facing such a dilemma while communicating in a foreign language are far more willing to sacrifice the bystander than those using their native tongue. In a paper published Aug. 14 in Psychological Science, the UChicago researchers take a major step toward understanding why that happens.
"Until now, we and others have described how using a foreign language affects the way that we think," said Boaz Keysar, the UChicago psychology professor in whose lab the research was conducted. "We always had explanations, but they were not tested directly. This is really the first paper that explains why, with evidence."
[...] "We discovered that people using a foreign language were not any more concerned with maximizing the greater good," said lead author Sayuri Hayakawa, a UChicago doctoral student in psychology. "But rather, were less averse to violating the taboos that can interfere with making utility-maximizing choices."
Journal Reference: Sayuri Hayakawa, David Tannenbaum, Albert Costa, Joanna D. Corey, Boaz Keysar. Thinking More or Feeling Less? Explaining the Foreign-Language Effect on Moral Judgment. Psychological Science, 2017; 095679761772094 DOI: 10.1177/0956797617720944
(Score: 3, Funny) by aristarchus on Monday August 28 2017, @08:53AM (10 children)
Ας ρίξουμε τον αριστάρχο κάτω από το λεωφορείο!
(Score: 2) by RamiK on Monday August 28 2017, @11:10AM (8 children)
Et tu, Aristarche? Dominum amas! Aut, sub carro vos iaciam!!!
Apologies for the rusty Latin.
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(Score: 3, Informative) by coolgopher on Monday August 28 2017, @11:40AM (7 children)
Romanes eunt domus! ;)
(Score: 2) by RamiK on Monday August 28 2017, @12:06PM (6 children)
Crap you're right. I should have used the imperative ama instead of indicative amas to say "Love thy master!" instead of the current "You love your master"...
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 28 2017, @02:03PM (5 children)
I cannot find any "thy" in that sentence. Did you misspell "the", or did you omit a "tuum"?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 28 2017, @04:34PM (4 children)
Classical Latin doesn't have "the" so putting "tuum" would emphasize thy\your to say "Love YOUR masters!" (strongly employing "and not other masters") instead of "Love your\the masters!".
There are different sentence structures that would make this explicit but they're too indirect and polite for a master to address their slave. Essentially, it's a similar issue to how Japanese pronounces are usually dropped and using them forces a more polite \ explicitly impolite speech.
Latin sucks.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday August 28 2017, @05:43PM (3 children)
Eeeeugh, that's way worse than Japanese. I had a much easier time with Koine than Latin; can't hardly understand any Latin at all aside from individual words, and the grammar escapes me entirely.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 3, Informative) by RamiK on Monday August 28 2017, @09:47PM (2 children)
You got to remember Koine wasn't really used for academic purposes: The well educated in the east used Ionic while the later westerners used Latin. So, comparing political discourse from Cicero to their contemporary pop-fiction, poetry and historical accounts of locals doesn't really sit right with me.
And it's reflected in the academic curriculum: 2 years of Latin are enough to start reading Caesar's journals. 2.5 in most Archeology departments is considered enough Koine for a working understanding of the language . However, Ionic... Well, shit that takes 3+ years just to start making some sense from the texts and a good 4 years before people start looking into reading the philosophy of the period. And then, paraphrasing my lecturer at the time, it can take years before you realize the Greeks are using metaphors left and right but most of the scholarly works and philosophical analysis on those predate modern literary analysis and was done by religious scholars and imperial British nobles resulting in some of the silliest readings you can imagine.
Personally though I can't remember nothing much of any of it so take it all with a grain of salt :D
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(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Tuesday August 29 2017, @06:12AM (1 child)
Ionic? Pentantic Hexameter, just like Homer? I think not! We used Attic, from Athens! Even myself, raised in the dialect of Samos, knew this at least! And when I went to Alexandria, we all used Attic Greek, the language of Plato and Aristotle, not some backwater Ionian dialect! Do try to keep up, RamiK!
(Score: 2) by RamiK on Tuesday August 29 2017, @11:42AM
I just shortened Ionic-Attic to Ionic. Practically speaking, most textbooks teach Attic since it's easier to teach as the rule rather than the exception while making footnotes regarding the Ionic when Attic has a greater variety of reading material and diverges into Koine. Also a lot of people like Attic's additions to the language since they read and sound more posh and once you go Koine most of the useless baggage is cast-off. However, it's called Ionic-Attic and shortened to Ionic since phonetically, Attic splits-off Ionic (which in-turn splits off old Ionic\Epic) and we use Ionic alphabet following the Eucleidian reforms.
Though admittedly, I remember preferring Ionic over Attic at the time. I don't remember the details but I think I like it since it was more orderly and had fewer exceptions. Regardless, like most everyone else I was taught Attic with Ionic footnotes and later some Koine tweaks and done most of my reading in Attic so I can't really argue against your atticism...
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(Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Monday August 28 2017, @11:13AM
Let's. By rational discourse and only by convincing him to do it himself.
Grow him tired with the non-rationality of this world, exhaust his power to revolt against it.
Let him embrace the absurd, make him see "La Cantatrice Chauve" in everyday life, make him identify with Bérenger facing Rhinocéros, show him his teaching are not far from "La Leçon" (are they?), then whisper in his ear "Il n'y a qu'un problème philosophique vraiment sérieux : c'est le suicide".
I bet he'll throw himself under a streetcar named desire and depend on the kindness of strangers ever since.
(grin - just don't take me serious, you'll end more cynical than me and make MostCynical redundant - not a nice thing to do to a fellow soylenter)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Monday August 28 2017, @09:15AM (8 children)
You're struggling with conjugation, trying to get the verbs and nouns in their proper order, and suffering with pronunciation - and all you want is revenge on the savages who invented this language. Of course you'll throw some poor chump in front of the train for revenge!!
(Score: 4, Funny) by c0lo on Monday August 28 2017, @11:46AM (7 children)
As a person having English as the non-native language, I can tell you how wrong you are regarding the choice.
Contrary with your opinion, letting the trolley going forward [colorado.edu] is the most rational solution.
If listening and responding to the thanks of one person is tedious and painful, can you imagine doing it for five?
(grin)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 28 2017, @02:09PM (4 children)
That's all wrong. The most rational solution is to nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure not to be unfair to any party, as everyone dies alike.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday August 28 2017, @02:27PM (3 children)
Pity, when we spoke foreign languages, all we have is a trolley [wikipedia.org]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 28 2017, @08:04PM (2 children)
A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of global thermonuclear war?
(Score: 3, Informative) by aristarchus on Tuesday August 29 2017, @06:15AM (1 child)
Now this is an AC comment that I would mod up, if I had not been banned from modding because I spam modded The Mighty Buzzard! Good comment, AC, I salute you! If only the eds could admit they made a mistake, I could actually mod you up. But don't count on it, they seem to be a vindictive lot.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday August 29 2017, @11:36AM
Toldja! You are on a solid track for cynicism. In rather the modern meaning of the term than the classical Diogenes'es one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 28 2017, @03:29PM (1 child)
You can always use the New Yorker solution to the problem, turn around and pretend like you didn't see anybody. That way, nobody will be dead. Or perhaps everybody, but either way, you'll be in the clear as nobody will know you were there.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Monday August 28 2017, @07:23PM
The pentagon solution requires blowing everybody up (with a couple 500-lbs bombs, to be really sure), labeling them enemy combatants, and justifying it by that threatening language they speak in the area.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday August 28 2017, @11:06AM (10 children)
Best argument ever for forcing kids to take other languages in school. And a damned fine argument for teaching the rest of the classes in a second language.
Side question: Could you even effectively teach White Male hating properly if you were forced to use a language that none of the students spoke as a first language?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday August 28 2017, @12:46PM (4 children)
But of course!
Teach them Spanish over all the weekends for an year, no beer allowed and use "Triunfo de las donas" [wikipedia.org] as the text book, show them even more than 500 years ago there were people more civilized than them.
(then keep them there, don't inflict them on the world)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 28 2017, @05:22PM (3 children)
But... The Spanish are white??
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Monday August 28 2017, @07:26PM (2 children)
The Spanish haven't been white since long before the Crusades.
Their country is basically the almost-land-bridge between western Europe and Africa, featuring some of the most mild climates in Europe, and impressive natural fortifications controlling the Straights of Gibraltar, the only nautical passage between the rich Mediterranean trade waters and the lucrative Atlantic coasts of both Europe and Africa.
Basically, they've been conquered so many times that "pure-blood Spaniard" is an oxymoron. Considering the vast technological superiority of the Moors for much of medieval history, I suppose it's a wonder that most of Europe isn't much darker skinned. Perhaps they simply decided there was little point in building an empire into lands so cold and dingy that no sane person would want to live there. :-D
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 29 2017, @01:38AM (1 child)
You don't know many Spaniards, do you?
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Tuesday August 29 2017, @06:21AM
"I give you my word as a Spaniard."
Man in Black:
"No good, I've known too many Spaniards."
We are men of action, spam mods do not become us.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday August 28 2017, @06:32PM (2 children)
I've long thought that instead of regular college everyone ought to go for 6 years in 3 sets of 2 years, with each set spent on another continent than one's home continent, in a language other than one's mother tongue. At least one of the 2-yr periods would be on the other side of the equator, but otherwise the student could choose which 3 continents. In the end he would earn a Master's degree with proficiency in at least 3 other languages, and have gained something of a more global perspective.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday August 28 2017, @07:23PM (1 child)
So, English in Britain, Bad English in the US, and Whatever The Hell Austrailians Speak in Oz?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by DECbot on Monday August 28 2017, @08:19PM
No, no, that won't work. US English and UK English are too similar. I recommend US, Scotland, Australia.
cats~$ sudo chown -R us /home/base
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 28 2017, @11:18PM (1 child)
Side answer: You're a trolling idiot for even bringing up the question which only serves to reinforce the stereotype you dislike so much. If the sheet fits wear it.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday August 28 2017, @11:45PM
You call that a troll? Man, my asshole makes more worthwhile noises than your weak-ass shit.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 28 2017, @11:07AM
So that's one reason (among many) why the jews are able to start wars with no emotional consequences. Why they are able to sink entire nations and the world in debt in order to enslave them. They have no empathy about it. Being devil worshipers, empathy is not one of their feelings.
As you know, jews must read their holy (unholy) books in their original language using a characteristic bobbing of the head. This is why they are taught jew-language from the start. So the little jews will grow up to be bigger jews.
(Score: 2) by looorg on Monday August 28 2017, @11:57AM (4 children)
Will different languages produce different results? In English I'm just weird, In Swedish I'm totally sane and when I think in German it's all about creating more lebensraum for the master race?
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday August 28 2017, @06:39PM
The effect is well-known, and much discussed. Women speaking French become much sexier to non-French speaking men. Men speaking Italian become much more attractive to non-Italian speaking women. Men and women speaking German immediately become more authoritative on any subject. Speaking Russian makes you feel dark and moody. Arabic is used to scare the crap out of everyone else. Speaking English makes you American.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Tuesday August 29 2017, @06:28AM (2 children)
I find it hard to believe that anyone is sane in Swedish, since they would be, you know, Swedish. But, ja, the weird in English is true, not your fault.
(Score: 2) by looorg on Tuesday August 29 2017, @09:22AM (1 child)
Börk börk börk ... börk ...
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Tuesday August 29 2017, @09:38AM
This deserves a Touche! I would mod it, if I could, but I have been mod-banned, so I hope some other Soylentil will step up to do the honors. And, I like Swedes, almost as much as Julian, but not in a semi-conscious sexual way. So somebody please mod up the parent! Please! (I feel so, emasculated!)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 28 2017, @01:37PM
This is the correct answer! [knowyourmeme.com] Multi-track drifting! Kill them all!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 28 2017, @03:31PM
I'd love to push whoever invented this dilemma in front of a train, even if it saves nobody.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 28 2017, @04:19PM
So that is why all the bad guys in movies are foreigners with funny accents!