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posted by cmn32480 on Saturday September 16 2017, @03:36AM   Printer-friendly
from the static-is-a-precursor-to-shutdown dept.

After 13 years the Debian-Administration website will go read-only at the end of the month. Then later in the year it will transform it into a solely static-site so that the articles, weblogs, and associated comments are not lost - and they can be served via single server or two. Mostly this is happening due to lack of new content being added and folks posting more elsewhere.

https://debian-administration.org/article/730/This_site_is_going_to_go_read-only


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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @04:06AM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @04:06AM (#568830)

    I have never heard of this site.

    13 years is 2004, which means it probably wasn't historically important or used by early adopters.

    What's the deal again?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @04:24AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @04:24AM (#568839)

      I've used fucking slackware since before that site was founded and I've never heard of it. Never ended up at any articles searching for linux info either. I mean look at this ish from its heyday?

      https://debian-administration.org/article/13/Simple_review_of_GNOME [debian-administration.org]

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @04:36AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @04:36AM (#568842)

        I had never heard of it either. I won't miss it.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @04:13AM (18 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @04:13AM (#568834)

    Debian used to be the go-to Linux distro, especially when you needed a really stable Linux installation. But now that it uses systemd and Gnome 3, it's basically a clone of Fedora. The spark within its community is gone. Both the community and the distro have been neutered. Its best users now use the *BSDs or macOS instead. When I look at Debian, all I see is a corpse.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @04:59AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @04:59AM (#568846)

      Best users? macOS is proprietary junk.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @10:32AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @10:32AM (#568908)

        BSD based junk, thank you

    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @06:37AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @06:37AM (#568860)

      The way systemd was pounded through Debian was demoralizing and insulting to the large user base. Then on top of that the damage that systemd has done to systemd administration has hurt. So between the two effects the air was really let out of the project's tires.

      There is also much less emphasis on code and code quality and more emphasis on which coders are gayer and the code (and people) are promoted based on their gayness rather than how well the code works. But that's not a problem unique to Debian at all.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @11:06PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @11:06PM (#569158)

        the damage that systemd has done to systemd administration has hurt.

        If it weren't for systemd, there wouldn't be such a thing as systemd administration!

    • (Score: 5, Informative) by coolgopher on Saturday September 16 2017, @07:46AM (6 children)

      by coolgopher (1157) on Saturday September 16 2017, @07:46AM (#568877)

      Fortunately, Devuan [devuan.org] is doing well and is what Debian should have been/kept being.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @12:57PM (4 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @12:57PM (#568938)

        I don't think that Devuan is "doing well". It my experience it's a very amateurish distro.

        While I used to trust Debian for moderately critical workloads, I wouldn't even trust Devuan for throwaway use.

        I think it's a myth that Devuan is a replacement for Debian. It's not.

        If you're putting in the effort of moving away from Debian, you might as well move to one of the *BSDs instead of Devuan.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @03:50PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @03:50PM (#568994)

          You are entitled to your opinion, but I use devuan successfully in server and embedded environments, and it's been great. You may run into a little bit of roughness, but as an experienced professional, you can work around that should you encounter it.

          Debian had its issues too, look at all the bug reports that have been sitting for years.

          BSD could be suitable, but Linux has the kernel and the drivers.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @04:03PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @04:03PM (#568998)

            but as an experienced professional, you can work around that should you encounter it.

            This is true. As an experienced professional, I uninstall Devuan and install FreeBSD instead. That's the best workaround.

        • (Score: 3, Informative) by Bot on Saturday September 16 2017, @09:21PM (1 child)

          by Bot (3902) on Saturday September 16 2017, @09:21PM (#569116) Journal

          I dunno still about devuan but mx linux and antix seem good enough to me if you want to stay in .deb land.

          --
          Account abandoned.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @11:22PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @11:22PM (#569169)

            Debian can still be used without systemd, depending on one's needs. I use it for a desktop; by avoiding the full-blown KDE and GNOME I could avoid systemd.

      • (Score: 2) by VLM on Saturday September 16 2017, @01:58PM

        by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 16 2017, @01:58PM (#568958)

        I would agree with and extend your remarks in that the unix boxes I haven't been able to turn into freebsd, get a systemd-free unix experience with Devuan. It just works. Kinda boring how well it works, what can you say about it?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @10:00AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @10:00AM (#568900)

      Debian used to be the go-to Linux distro, especially when you needed a really stable Linux installation...

      really stable?

      s/Debian/Slackware/g

      (as I've had far more Debian servers screw up on me than Slackware ones over the years..that's both monumental fubars and stupid little fuckups when various updates were applied)

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @12:59PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @12:59PM (#568939)

        "Stable" doesn't just mean it doesn't crash. It also means it gets timely updates, especially when there are security issues discovered. It also means it's extensively tested by a wide base of users. Debian offered far more of those things than Slackware ever could have.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @11:45PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @11:45PM (#569186)

          Slackware used to be entirely put together by one guy, who didn't care one iota about security. Last time I looked into it, I saw that that has changed for the better.

          Most security flaws transcend Linux distributions (some affecting BSD too). You could keep an eye on the Debian security advisories while running Slackware, to be aware of the times when you're running unpatched software. The converse applies too: Slackware's advisory [slackware.com] about CVE-2017-7526 predates Debian's [debian.org] by nearly a month.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @05:07PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @05:07PM (#569029)

      only vile whores use macOS

    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Saturday September 16 2017, @05:47PM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Saturday September 16 2017, @05:47PM (#569049)

      When I look at Debian, all I see is

      Ubuntu, Raspbian, and a dozen other variants that use the apt-get package system.

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @10:17PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @10:17PM (#569127)

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian#Policies [wikipedia.org] and look at the table "Historical population". 2008 was "peak DD" with 1075. Crisis hit and two years (2009 and 2010) of numbers going down. Probably people having to focus in getting money instead of side projects. Later it recovered, but still below that record... and in 2016 it went down a bit again. systemd brouhaha took place around 2014 (they even voted "no" on keeping compat without non-systemd!?) and things took a bit of time to sink in so 2015 was still positive but 2016 is down (what future is there for Debian hurd or kbsd projects now? or any other package that systemd "obsoletes" via their tentacle creep?). Also crisis is not over (if ever?) and new generations seem to just go "social".

      From bug reports, it seems DDs are overloaded, unmotivated, lost their magic touch. (So I am about all this FOSS "corporatization", becoming a monoculture (when RPM only? soonTM), pushing crap to keep their jobs and fighting for control, instead of finishing the old programs they inherited, so maybe I'm projecting.) Years ago a report or new comment was quickly acked, now it can take weeks. Packages with new releases take months to be packaged. You better get youtube-dl from DMO than official unstable if you want to access anything. Just poking around found one dh or similar helper package looking for maintainer. I hope that was just the exception and just hit two unlucky packages. I would also like to see the stats for NMI, both to fix a critical issue (big problem) or just to keep with API/ABIs (minor issue, yet it should be the DD in charge, right?).

      But then I go and look at the Social Contract and wonder what happened to what wikipedia distills as "Not hiding problems with the software or organization." and "Staying focused on the users and the software that started the phenomenon." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian_Social_Contract [wikipedia.org] . Same page also says "Young said this would be a "kiss of death" for RedHat, implying it would constrain the company's ability to generate profit." and I wonder if ignoring the DSC is the kiss of death for Debian.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 17 2017, @12:01AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 17 2017, @12:01AM (#569195)

        Wikipedia confirms it: Debian is dying! :)

  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @04:18AM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @04:18AM (#568835)

    This just goes to show how fragile open source communities are. XFree86, Gnome, Firefox and Debian are projects that I think are now past their prime. They used to have vibrant communities. Now they are just ghosts.

    • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @05:09PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @05:09PM (#569032)

      fuck you, idiotic whore

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Bot on Saturday September 16 2017, @09:24PM

      by Bot (3902) on Saturday September 16 2017, @09:24PM (#569118) Journal

      Yeah, meanwhile Apple shat on its powermac line, toyfied final cut so much that it had to reverse course, and windows wants to go subscription only, like adobe.
      Debian is paradise by comparison, even with systemd (well almost)

      --
      Account abandoned.
  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @04:23AM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @04:23AM (#568838)

    Was Ian Murdock [wikipedia.org] the glue that held Debian together? Even if he may not have been involved as deeply with Debian as he once had been, once he passed away things never felt the same within the Debian community. A guiding light was taken away much too soon. Rest in peace, Ian.

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Hyper on Saturday September 16 2017, @10:23AM (2 children)

      by Hyper (1525) on Saturday September 16 2017, @10:23AM (#568905) Journal

      Is Linus the glue for which is holding Linux together?

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @11:18AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @11:18AM (#568918)

        Yes. Absolutely.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 17 2017, @12:07PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 17 2017, @12:07PM (#569365)

          I can see it now. Microsoft sending assassins to remove the last bastion of Linux freedom. With its defender gone Microsoft will be free to embrace, extend, extinguish

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @04:31AM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @04:31AM (#568841)

    The announcement says

    the maintenance of the (10+) servers which power the site is becoming increasingly draining

    10+ servers?! What the fuck?! Why the hell does a simple site like that need that many servers?! I can understand two or three for some redundancy, but 10+?! A couple of $5/month VPS instances would probably be more than sufficient for a site as basic as that one.

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @05:35AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @05:35AM (#568852)
      from a comment to the article:
      • 4 x web-servers (apache2)
      • 1 x load-balancer to route traffic to any of those that are up (haproxy)
      • 1 x database for content-storing
      • 1 x redis for login-sessions + caching
      • 1 x API-server for serving content for other uses.
      • 1 x mail-delivery host for sending out comment-notications, etc.
      • 1 x webserver for the planet

      Doesn't need half that many machines of course, but at the same time why not?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @01:09PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @01:09PM (#568944)

        Why not? Because at most all they really need is:

        2 x web-servers (apache2); webserver for the planet
        1 x database for content-storing; redis for login-sessions + caching; API-server for serving content for other uses; mail-delivery host for sending out comment-notications, etc.
        1 x load-balancer to route traffic to any of those that are up (haproxy)

        Given how little traffic they probably get, and how non-critical this site is, they could probably get away with:

        1 x web-server (apache2); webserver for the planet; database for content-storing; redis for login-sessions + caching; API-server for serving content for other uses; mail-delivery host for sending out comment-notications, etc.

    • (Score: 2) by choose another one on Saturday September 16 2017, @12:09PM

      by choose another one (515) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 16 2017, @12:09PM (#568924)

      Perhaps more importantly, how the hell does a site that isn't being actively used much need 10+ servers?

      Either no one is using it so it doesn't matter much if it goes away, _or_ it needs a lot of servers. Not both.

  • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @04:40AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @04:40AM (#568844)

    Linux has been shattered.

  • (Score: 3, Funny) by lx on Saturday September 16 2017, @05:03AM

    by lx (1915) on Saturday September 16 2017, @05:03AM (#568847)

    Life would be so much more peaceful.

    Lucky Debian Administration.

  • (Score: 2) by requerdanos on Saturday September 16 2017, @11:34AM (2 children)

    by requerdanos (5997) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 16 2017, @11:34AM (#568919) Journal

    from the static-is-a-precursor-to-shutdown dept.

    Well, the site's sidebar poll does include the phrase "when this site closes"...

    What will you miss when this site closes?
    __ Articles
    __ Polls
    __ Weblogs

    • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @01:12PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 16 2017, @01:12PM (#568947)

      They forgot the "Nothing" option.

      • (Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Sunday September 17 2017, @11:32AM

        by maxwell demon (1608) on Sunday September 17 2017, @11:32AM (#569358) Journal

        Those who won't miss anything will probably not even see the poll, and if they do, not bother answering anyway.

        --
        The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  • (Score: 2) by VLM on Saturday September 16 2017, @02:08PM (2 children)

    by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Saturday September 16 2017, @02:08PM (#568963)

    So the unix spirit folks moved to freebsd or devuan or other distros because its hard to get motivated anymore about yet another fedora clone gnome desktop bootloader. I remember when Debian was the Universal OS, those were exciting days. Anyway, wheres the analogy sites for other distros?

    The problem with "heres how to do cool stuff on FreeBSD" is FreeBSD is an engineered rather than organically grown OS with excellent docs. So first of all doing cool stuff is logical and sensible and predictable and doesn't need a guide, secondly the best doc for that kind of work is:

    https://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/system-administration.html [freebsd.org]

    For example out of paranoia whenever I resize a disk I have sec-17.3 open in a tab although everythings well engineered and logical and unsurprising so I don't really need it.

    None the less if someone knows of something like debianadminstration but for Devuan or FreeBSD or other refugee OS, that would be interesting.

    So much of debianadministration was the areas where Debian was poorly documented or poorly engineered (in a relative sense, things were usually pretty good).

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