The Guardian brings us a disturbing story from Anaheim California:
Somewhere in the southern California city of Anaheim, less than five miles from Disneyland, three porta-potties – two pink, one gray – are locked in a city storage facility. It's not where they're supposed to be.
They were meant for a dusty homeless encampment that sprawls along the west bank of the Santa Ana river, and is home to hundreds of men, women and children in tents and other makeshift shelters.
But the toilets are sitting unused after being confiscated by the city, and the residents have nowhere to relieve themselves except in the bushes, or in buckets, or in the cramped privacy of their own tents. Activists are up in arms over the primitive conditions in which camp inhabitants are living, and which, in their view, the local government appears to have sanctioned.
"This is a public health crisis for the homeless community," said Mohammed Aly, a homeless advocate and lawyer who helped install the toilets. Not least it was a case, he said, of providing people with simple human dignity.
[...] The closest public toilet to the Anaheim camp is over a mile upriver from where many riverbed residents live. So when the porta-potties arrived in May, after being purchased and delivered by local activist groups, they were a welcome alternative to walking half an hour or more to use the bathroom, or taking the more popular route of relieving oneself in a bucket and dumping the refuse in the riverbed.
But just 72 hours after the toilets were installed, there was bad news: the council of wealthy Orange County insisted the porta-potties be removed from their land, saying their presence was unauthorized.
Aly subsequently moved them about 300 yards, out of the county's jurisdiction, and onto city land. That lasted a week, until the city, too, ordered them removed, citing local ordinances regulating the installation of porta-potties. When Aly and other activists didn't remove the toilets themselves, the city government confiscated them, and took them into storage.
[...] Aly said he's not giving up on the toilets. And if he can't work something out with the city or county governments to get them back in place, he knows what he's going to do.
"Our next step is to proceed anyways," he said. "To leave the portable restrooms on a trailer, park the trailer adjacent to the riverbed, and move it around every 72 hours."
If the city of Anaheim doesn't want the homeless to use toilets, perhaps city council members could offer their bathrooms instead.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by maxwell demon on Monday October 09 2017, @07:18AM (28 children)
Too few people care about illnesses of the homeless. Therefore the argument should omit that last part:
"This is a public health crisis."
That way it's not less true, but it might get more people concerned because they might fear for their own health. And, let me add, rightly so: Contagious illnesses likely won't stay confined to the homeless community.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @07:38AM (27 children)
Arrest them, and lock them away until they can prove that they can and will provide adequate facilities for themselves.
Put them in mental hospitals as necessary, and if they agree.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @08:19AM (20 children)
Put these people to work.
There are lots of parts of Orange County that look like an armpit.
There are also lots of people in Orange County with more wealth than they could spend in 5 lifetimes--wealth that they derived by exploiting the non-wealthy and exploiting the public infrastructure.
In finding a solution to the unemployment/homeless situation, the dots are very easy to connect.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by rylyeh on Monday October 09 2017, @08:46AM
+1
"a vast crenulate shell wherein rode the grey and awful form of primal Nodens, Lord of the Great Abyss."
(Score: 5, Touché) by c0lo on Monday October 09 2017, @08:52AM (18 children)
Careful what you wish for.
I can see a solution which perfectly fits your requirements and still implemented by the worst reactionaries. It's called: forced work camps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @10:09AM (15 children)
I was thinking "jobs" (FDR-style).
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday October 09 2017, @12:03PM (14 children)
Yes, I believe you.
I'm not going to split the hair, but you'll have to admit that forced work camps still fit your wording [tvtropes.org].
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Troll) by Ethanol-fueled on Monday October 09 2017, @10:36PM (12 children)
We should also do this with illegals. Labor camps in exchange for 3 hots, a cot, and perhaps a rec area and some basic medical care.
Residents must be sober at all times but will be able to leave the camps at any time provided they lose those benefits and are kicked back onto the streets (homeless) or deported (illegals).
Look, that's a pretty sweet fuckin' deal. I don't understand why people keep modding me down for suggesting that.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by KiloByte on Monday October 09 2017, @11:52PM
And here's the reason why homeless shelters tend to stay empty.
Ceterum censeo systemd esse delendam.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @11:53PM (7 children)
You're an idiot to not see how that will go badly. I guess you don't quite understand human rights either, they must seem lime some idealistic nonsense to you.
The fact that you don't understand the downmods says a lot.
(Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Tuesday October 10 2017, @12:09AM
Spoken like a true gated-community liberal.
Invite them into your house and see how well that works out for you. Anyway, in my past screeds, I mentioned that the stipulation was that illegals would receive job training and, eventually, citizenship after 5 years in the 'camps with no trouble. I call that a win-win situation.
I would have happily agreed to such terms to get Swedish citizenship back when it was actually a functioning country and before Merkel and the Jews decided that Nordic countries were too White and too good examples of society.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday October 10 2017, @02:11AM (5 children)
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness doesn't necessarily give you the right to lay on the sidewalk, drunk. That's what a home is for.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday October 10 2017, @02:30AM (4 children)
Where's exactly the definition in which "to lay on the sidewalk, drunk" is banned from "the state of being happy"?
In other words, why is illegal to have the personal definition of "pursuit of happiness" as "attaining a state of perpetual drunkenness 'til the end"? Why are you asserting that a leaving-Las Vegas [wikipedia.org] person is being immoral/illegal?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday October 10 2017, @02:16PM (3 children)
Because the city sidewalk is public property, belonging to ALL OF US. If you pass out drunk on that sidewalk, you are depriving other people of their proper use of that public property. At the least, go to the park, and sit under a tree until you pass out.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday October 10 2017, @02:50PM (2 children)
By that measure, anyone in the public space is depriving any other person by the space the one occupies.
What if I don't pass out drunk but stay put in the public space for some hours, am I depriving less of US? What if I'm moving though the public place for the same length of time: doesn't my presence deprive others of the use of the same amount of personal space? Is any of these two forbidden?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday October 10 2017, @05:38PM (1 child)
Most people, standing upright, occupy fewer square feet of ground than they do unconscious on the groung. The activities you have mentioned only require that you occupy those couple of square feet of ground. Enjoy yourself. Please don't intentionally become an obstruction, like that drunk bastard in front of the bakery.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday October 10 2017, @09:25PM
Do you want to oppose the rights to public space of morbidly obese people with those of laying on the ground (drunk or not)?
Does it make a difference in the occupied space if the said homeless is sober but keeps her/his belongings in a shopping trolley?
How about the disabled people that use an electric scooter for mobility, are they subject to "public space limits" too?
(come on, Runaway, like it or not, that drunkard is a human too. He may be the victim of those corporations and globalism too late in his life to start again. Don't use the righteous broad brush to paint all individuals you don't like as "undesirables", it's wrong even in principle - justice and fairness are meant to act on the specific of individual cases).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Tuesday October 10 2017, @02:20AM
You kidding/trolling, right?
(Just in case you are not) Because the things can get pretty quick out of control when dealing with people without means to defend themselves, especially when the labor camp administration have a great incentive to be as populated as possible.
Imagine yourself, after a good - ummm - fueling session in which you lost control over yourself (or someone just helped by mugging you), being picked up from the street and thrown into one of those camps.
With no way to communicate outside (equiv: "Tell me, Mr. Anderson, what good is a phone call when you are unable to speak?"), they'd be able to do to you whatever they want - you accidentally became "undesirable" and they have a pretty strong incentive to keep it this way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by Pino P on Tuesday October 10 2017, @01:42PM
Ethanol-fueled (2792) wrote:
How easily can someone who is "Ethanol-fueled" become sober?
Less flippantly:
What sort of treatment for substance dependence would these labor camps offer?
(Score: 1) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Tuesday October 10 2017, @03:10PM
Meh, let's just summarily execute anyone who poisons their body with alcohol, productive or not. That'll solve the problem too, ok?
This sig for rent.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Pino P on Tuesday October 10 2017, @01:38PM
From the linked page: "This is page #1 that you have viewed this day". This looks like a metered paywall. So here's an alternate source: Literal Genie [allthetropes.org]
I've explained further in a journal entry [soylentnews.org].
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @09:39PM
It solves the problem without encouraging more. ("don't feed the animals" pretty much)
If the situation gets too far out of hand, eventually people will demand something far more brutal. Remember that the Final Solution wasn't just Jews, and it was at least partly supported by ordinary people who were fed up with things.
Angry people get desperate. Solve the problems with something like work camps before people demand death camps. Unimaginable you think? No. It has happened before and will happen again. Don't ignore the anger and frustration.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Tuesday October 10 2017, @03:01PM
- work three jobs because there is the mortgage on insanely priced real estate: all fine
- county asks you to clean up some mess in exchange for some food it has been giving you for quite some time: SLAVERY!!!
As usual, it's not evil when the bank is doing it.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 3, Touché) by c0lo on Monday October 09 2017, @08:48AM
You serious?
(good luck proving anything while locked away. Maybe... at most some math theorems if one can do it without pen/paper).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Informative) by tangomargarine on Monday October 09 2017, @03:55PM (1 child)
Seriously? You missed the part in the summary where that's exactly what they did, then the county/city took said facilities away?
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by Pino P on Tuesday October 10 2017, @01:56PM
"Adequate facilities" include title to land. Without said title, facilities cannot be adequate in the city's view.
(Score: 2) by leftover on Monday October 09 2017, @04:21PM (2 children)
This 'solution' might sound harsh on first glance, but think for a minute. We, as a society, treat intentional criminals better than we treat people marginalized by mental illness or by financial problems or even just bad decisions. The privatized prisons are so desperate for 'residents' that they are bribing judges to send people there. So hell yes! Go ahead and 'arrest' mentally ill homeless people! Send them to private facilities equipped to handle them. Then monitor the shit out of those facilities to maintain standards of care.
This solution includes the magic "Capitalism!" tag to erase all doubts and concerns.
Bent, folded, spindled, and mutilated.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday October 10 2017, @02:20AM (1 child)
That idea is not to terribly far out in left or right field. Unfortunately, the implementation is unlikely to be much good. I don't believe that any people, or any agency is going to properly monitor conditions inside the jails/prisons/institutions.
If decent monitoring could be guaranteed, I might just go along with the idea. It's no secret that some people do much better in a controlled, regimented environment, than they can do on their own. On the other hand, it's no secret that sadistic SOB's are attracted to jobs where they can exercise control over the helpless. Witness the mayor's treatment of the homeless . . .
(Score: 2) by leftover on Tuesday October 10 2017, @11:39AM
Exactly. Hence my snark. Our inability to keep government services and oversight of services on track is an overarching problem.
Bent, folded, spindled, and mutilated.
(Score: 1, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @07:43AM (30 children)
Look, this problem is not hard. Other places handle it.
The "homeless encampment" is unauthorized trash, construction, camping, water pollution, and loitering. It ruins public land that could be used for recreation. Clean that up. Restore nature. Make the needed arrests. There are toilets in the jail and in the prison. Heck, it's progressive activist heaven in prison: free medical care, free housing, free food, and only the authorities have guns.
Well-run places don't let such problems get out of hand.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @07:50AM (8 children)
Surely you also advocate for actual public housing (as opposed to jail and prison), then, right?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @09:20AM
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Monday October 09 2017, @05:55PM (1 child)
Surely you also advocate for actual public housing (as opposed to jail and prison), then, right?
It appears to be more effective and cheaper. [wikipedia.org] So I'm guessing the answer is NO.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @09:04PM
You need to account for things beyond the immediate per-person cost.
The threat of jail/prison encourages people to find their own housing supported by their own employment. It's like how the threat of being drafted caused many people to enlist for Vietnam, knowing that they'd have more choice that way.
Ever see a "don't feed the animals" sign? The support of public housing breeds more people who will end up in public housing. They make babies. This is exponential growth. It's like leaving out food for pigeons or squirrels or mice. You'll get more. Prison prohibits breeding. (or do you propose to sterilize people in public housing?)
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @08:34PM (4 children)
People don't appreciate something they didn't pay for. Public housing gets destroyed by the inhabitants. Prisons are harder to destroy: concrete, stainless steel, etc.
Public housing holds people with problems. Without the sort of security offered by prison, public housing quickly becomes extremely unsafe. You get prostitution, drug dealing, rape, muggings, and general extreme violence.
Public housing erodes the incentive to work. Considering the example of a woman with 2 kids in Chicago, public benefits are such that there is no reason to earn more than minimum wage unless you can manage well in excess of $60,000 per year. The more you earn, the more your benefits are reduced. You aren't clearly ahead until you earn $80,000 per year. There is no incentive to work harder or at a more-skilled job that might pay more.
Public housing causes children to grow up in a poverty cycle. More children are born to those who otherwise are failing at life. Meanwhile, the people with better-paying jobs (usually the sort who would make decent parents) are holding back because of the taxes needed to support the public housing and other welfare. Essentially, we are breeding for poverty.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @09:13PM (3 children)
Public housing erodes the incentive to work
...in the way that not having an address incentivizes getting a job?
...in the way that subsidies to megacorporations makes them less willing to produce?
.
...and in the way that tax breaks for the 1 Percent causes them to create new USAian businesses and new USAian jobs? /sarc
.
Public housing that isn't just warehousing for the poor and which looks like other people's homes actually works out well.
...and, if we're going to keep Capitalism as an economic system, then when the boom-and-bust Capitalists YET AGAIN completely bork the economy, some Keynesian job creation on the part of the gov't would be apt.
USA did this previously and, on FDR's watch, 15 million idled people were turned into consumers once again (saving Capitalism from itself).
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @09:46PM (2 children)
See "ECONOMICS -- PUBLIC AND PRIVATE CHOICE" ISBN-13 978-1-111-97021-4 and ISBN-10 1-111-97021-1 Part 6, Special Topic 6 ("Lessions from the Great Depression"), page 627
Basically, FDR prevented recovery. See the book for 14 pages of explanation with lots of nice graphs.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @10:02PM (1 child)
...because people without jobs and without disposable income are what gets an economy back on its feet, apparently.
...and I've already noted that the Capitalists weren't hiring.
Keynes (FDR's advisor) had learned the lessons of the The Long Depression (1873 -1996): People idled by boom-and-bust Capitalism produce a downward economic spiral.
(Dubya, O'Bummer, and Drumpf clearly all failed Macroeconomics.)
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @11:20PM
Businesses ("capitalists") were starting to hire again until government fucked things up, turning a short-term problem into a huge disaster.
That book is a well-written college textbook. Get yourself a copy, open your mind a bit, see the evidence laid out, and learn.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @07:56AM (18 children)
Nice North Korean style solution there. Liberalism all grown up shows its true NIMBY colors and turns out worse than "National Socialism" of the 1930's. Way to go California. The other 49 states called, they want a divorce. Sad that other parts of the world model themselves of of this screwball state.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @08:11AM (11 children)
Your incoherent ramblings would put you in the needs-supervision-by-professionals category.
First, if actual Liberalism was in play, gov't would be doing what FDR did in the 1930s when he put 15 million people back to work when the boom-and-bust Capitalists weren't hiring.
Next, if California was a country, it would have the 6th largest economy among nations.
Cali (and other Blue states) are the reason that Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, Arkansas, and other Red states that take more than they give haven't gone completely under.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by Arik on Monday October 09 2017, @09:00AM (9 children)
For about 20 minutes, it would.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @10:13AM (8 children)
Then what? More USA.gov imperialist aggression?
Murder Californians until USA.gov achieves the hegemony it desires?
...as it has done time and again.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Informative) by Arik on Monday October 09 2017, @06:38PM (4 children)
Californias economy is dependent on it being a part of the US in so many ways. The vast majority of it is imaginary and/or federally supported military-industrial-media complex stuff. Kiss it all goodbye. And you'd better have those de-sal plants built before you do it too, cause guess where most of your water comes from?
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 1) by Arik on Monday October 09 2017, @08:24PM
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Monday October 09 2017, @08:52PM (2 children)
The Sierra Nevada, almost wholly within California?
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @09:29PM
Well, with Global Warming and ever-lower winter snowpack, local mountains have been a decreasing factor.
Having turned Mono Lake (Kern County) into a small mud puddle in the middle of an alkali flat, SoCal is more dependent on the Colorado River than ever before.
The OC has been considering desalinization plants.
(The vendor mentioned is your typical Capitalist operation with especially horrible records on the environment, corruption, labor relations, etc.)
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday October 10 2017, @02:27AM
How about electricity? I forget what fraction of California's electricity comes from Nevada, but it's pretty large. Bit of trivia I learned when I toured Hoover Dam - none of that electricity is used in Nevada. The entire output of Hoover Dam goes to California.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @07:12PM (2 children)
By seceding, CA would lose their place at the Fed spigot, which is the only thing keeping them from being Guatemala.
BTW, don't you have a country music concert to shoot up?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @08:11PM
It's well established that they pay out more in taxes than they take in. If you mean that it would be disruptive to someone's established business sometimes.. Yes. That's true.
It's not like the red states which are more or less one welfare check away from becoming tiny mexicos for us to build walls around.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @09:50PM
After that, where is USA.gov gonna buy all of its bombs and bombers?
...and you assume that other customers couldn't be found after USA.gov embargoes are out of picture.
.
I have never owned a firearm and I like actual Country Music (but not the children's pop music that they play on "Country" radio these days--without playing any Hank or Lefty).
N.B. KPFT, Pacifica Radio for Houston, has an awesome Audio Archive [kpft.org] that has a bunch of Blues, some Bluegrass, and The Lone Star Jukebox, among other stuff.
Playlists too. [archive.li]
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @11:30PM
Get yourself this excellent college textbook: "ECONOMICS -- PUBLIC AND PRIVATE CHOICE" ISBN-13 978-1-111-97021-4 and ISBN-10 1-111-97021-1
Turn to Part 6, "Special Topic 6: Lessions from the Great Depression" on page 627. Read that 14-page section and look at the nice graphs and photos. I happen to think it is pretty readable by itself, but then I took lots of economics in college, so maybe you'll need to read some other parts of the book to bring you up to speed. The entire book is excellent, so read the whole thing anyway. You need it.
Basically, FDR prevented recovery. Some politicians in America have a vested interest in pretending otherwise, but the evidence is clear.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by NotSanguine on Monday October 09 2017, @08:22AM (5 children)
Oops. The Orange County Government [wikipedia.org] is dominated by Republicans.
Oops. And Anaheim is considered, by Republicans/Conservatives*, to be the third best city in the US for conservatives* [ocweekly.com].
So why are you shitting on your own, AC?
*This word is code for "radical reactionary."
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @10:48AM (3 children)
...in places.
Hillary took the OC in 2016.
Latinos and people of Vietnamese extraction tend to vote Blue and their numbers are rising in the OC.
The county is shifting away from its traditional Red hue.
Anaheim is [...] the third best city in the US for conservatives.
Yup. Very business-friendly.
I don't like to go near Anaheim.
Seems like they're always tearing up something and replacing it with something else that's bigger.
If you don't make an effort to find out about that stuff, you can run into roads that are blocked off|bus stops out of service|yada,yada,yada.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 4, Informative) by NotSanguine on Monday October 09 2017, @11:04AM (2 children)
Yes. And those places that are still quite red include Anaheim.
And go ahead and look up the "Orange County Board of Supervisors." It's dominated by Rs.
The article is about the folks who confiscated the only bathrooms the homeless there had. And those folks are the radical reactionaries who (inaccurately) call themselves "conservatives"
I pointed all this out for the benefit of an AC who probably blames "teh beaners" when his toast gets a little too brown.
That the demographics of Orange County are changing isn't news. It's also not relevant to the issues in TFS/TFA.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @07:15PM (1 child)
Oh, I'm fairly informed on the state of OC politics.
http://www.orangejuiceblog.com#rss-17 [orangejuiceblog.com]
(inaccurately) call themselves "conservatives"
Amen.
for the benefit of an AC who probably blames "teh beaners"
OK.
not relevant
Maybe not at this moment, but changes to the representation rules plus shifting demographics will likely be pivotal to the direction things go in the (near?) future.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Monday October 09 2017, @07:54PM
That's certainly a possibility. I wonder though, will that near future come before the next homeless person needs to take a dump?
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @05:24PM
Hahaha I was waiting for an ignorant turd to try and blame liberals for this crap. Ignorant sucker, can't even use Wikipedia!
(Score: 3, Funny) by realDonaldTrump on Monday October 09 2017, @02:38PM
We had a very deplorable situation in New York City. While disabled veterans should be given every opportunity to earn a living, is it fair to do so to the detriment of the city as a whole or its tax paying citizens and businesses? They were allowed to sell on Fifth Avenue, a most important and prestigious shopping street. One of the world's finest and most luxurious shopping districts was allowed to be turned into an outdoor flea market, clogging and seriously downgrading the area. The image of New York City suffered because of it. I hope you can stop this very deplorable situation in Anaheim before it is too late. 🇺🇸
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @08:46PM
First, the Santa Ana River is a big concrete ditch.
(Thanks, for removing the vast majority of anything that looks natural, Army Corps of Engineers.)[1]
Next, it already is used for recreation.
There's a bicycle path along its edge.
(See the comment by RamiK.)
[1] In L.A. County, they're trying to undo the ecological damage that the Corps did and restore parts of the Los Angeles River (also a big concrete ditch) to some of its former natural glory.
It ruins public land
Actually, it sounds like public land being used by The Public.
It's only people who would make e.g. Johnny Appleseed unwelcome that have a problem with this.
I'll mention The Commons once again for those who have missed my prior references, as well as the Enclosure Acts of the 1600s which (disgracefully) privatized that stuff.
...and let's not forget the Native Americans who thrived for many centuries and thought that the European concept of private land ownership was bizarre.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @08:00AM (4 children)
The November election was the first where Anaheim did NOT have an at-large mechanism in place.
Previously, everybody in the city got to vote for the city councilman for -every- district, even though they didn't live in those districts.
This time around, the city (which has a significant Latino population and is mostly Working Class) had a by-district thing, the way a democracy is supposed to work.
The people who live in a district--and ONLY residents of the district--decided who would represent that district.
City of Anaheim Districting 2016 [anaheim.net]
Even after the switch was made, however, representation by people other than affluent Whites is slow in coming.
A voting law meant to increase minority representation has generated many more lawsuits than seats for people of color [latimes.com]
Anaheim is also home to Disneyland; anything that is not tourist-friendly has been squashed by TPTB.
A bus stop in Anaheim that I use occasionally recently had the benches removed because homeless folks were using them.
(There was still a homeless guy sleeping on a piece of cardboard.)
.
Go south a bit and you get to Sana Ana, the county seat and the most populous city in Orange County.
It also has homeless encampments along the Santa Ana River (a big concrete ditch).
That city, however is dealing with the homeless situation a bit better, e.g. converting unused buildings into shelters.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Arik on Monday October 09 2017, @09:09AM (3 children)
OK, I'll trust your word on that for now. What's the significance?
"Previously, everybody in the city got to vote for the city councilman for -every- district, even though they didn't live in those districts."
Err, do you mean that previously it was an at-large system, with no districts? It sure sounds like that's what you're saying.
"This time around, the city (which has a significant Latino population and is mostly Working Class) had a by-district thing, the way a democracy is supposed to work"
Wow, umm, no. Districting was written into our laws in the US because it was the only practical way to conduct elections in the horse and buggy days, not because it's how 'democracy is supposed to work.' There are arguments on both sides but most folks figure that at-large is better, as long as there are none of the practical impediments that were common in less technologically advanced times. We could easily do a nationwide paper ballot and a unitary vote count today for the entire nation, let alone Anaheim.
"Even after the switch was made, however, representation by people other than affluent Whites is slow in coming."
Wow, that was a pretty racist thing to drop in the middle of the comment with no warning. And I'm not even sure what you actually mean. Do you mean poor brown people didn't vote? Or are you just unhappy with who they chose to vote for?
"Anaheim is also home to Disneyland; anything that is not tourist-friendly has been squashed by TPTB."
Yeah, that's why I remember the place. Wasn't it essentially a big orchard before Disney?
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @10:26AM (2 children)
Add the pejorative "classist" while you're at it.
Doesn't change the truth.
not because it's how 'democracy is supposed to work.'
You've managed to completely miss the whole "the consent of the governed" thing.
a big orchard before Disney?
That's why they called it Orange County.
Juice oranges came from Florida (they have an Orange County too) and eating oranges came from Cali.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Touché) by Arik on Monday October 09 2017, @05:52PM (1 child)
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @07:53PM
For starters, you've omitted non-affluent Whites.
My assumption is that these folks
1) relied on Lamestream Media to give them useful facts.[1]
2) took note of what filled their mailboxes[2]
3) weren't aware of townhalls/debates in time to attend[3]
[1] I think that we've established that money talks and everything else is a distant 2nd place, and that business interests dominate corporate media.
[2] If their mailboxes in Anaheim were anything like mine here, those were crammed full of stuff from the best-funded candidates/issues and that was mostly negative campaigning.
[3] ...and even if, as some cities do, Anaheim had a public access channel (which I think they don't), [wikipedia.org] that's typically via cable so cord cutters and never-had-a-cord folks couldn't view that.
...and it also takes some time to build up popular political constructs after you've always been ignored/bulldozed for a century and a half and have grown to accept that your vote doesn't really matter.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by Bot on Monday October 09 2017, @08:59AM (8 children)
- Citizen
- What
- Your toilet is confiscated
- What? Why?
- Public Health something
- And where am I supposed to do my pee pee and poo poo now
- In the bushes, dig a hole in the ground, whatever
Sounds healthy.
In totally unrelated news, California City wants homeless to go elsewhere.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by jmorris on Monday October 09 2017, @01:02PM (7 children)
Citizen? Of what? Certainly not of Anaheim or Orange County. They don't own or rent property there, they do not pay taxes, there is an old out fashion word for what they are: squatters.
And yes they need to be 'encouraged' to go elsewhere, somewhere they might actually contribute enough to the local society to earn a place to live. High property values make it difficult for the less valuable workers to earn enough to pay the high cost of living that goes with pricey areas of the country. But guess what, nobody has an inherent 'right' to live there, they so not have the 'right' to be provided "low income housing", they do not have the 'right' to become squatters and befoul the area.
In fact, I'd argue that zero government subsidized "low income housing" should exist in the top ten percent of housing markets. If nothing else it would put a cap on the out of control prices. Think about it. Seriously, before unleashing the spittle flecked rage, stop and consider what would actually happen if we did it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @03:53PM (2 children)
Citizenship is no longer something that needs to be earned, these are the results of freely giving people something.
I'm thoroughly convinced that by the time I get grey I will be truly convinced the only way to deal with the Bolshevik mindset is to kill on sight.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @05:30PM (1 child)
Ah the good old AC fascist pig. You won't like the consequences of your murderous stupidity.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @08:08PM
fascist
The Bolsheviks are sometimes (with some accuracy) called "Red Fascists".
In their early, formative days, they were Marxist, professing support for distributed collective ownership and worker empowerment.
As soon as the October Revolution was over, however, they began to crush the soviets (worker councils, citizen councils, etc.).
Once they gained power (having already fully marginalized the Mensheviks), the Bolsheviks weren't commune-ists, they were top-down Authoritarians.
GP got it right.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 4, Touché) by bob_super on Monday October 09 2017, @09:10PM
> there is an old out fashion word for what they are: squatters
It came back in fashion as soon as they removed their toilets.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Monday October 09 2017, @10:38PM (2 children)
As usual jmorris, you're flat wrong [usconstitution.net]:
Please show me where it says that, to be a citizen, one must "own or rent property there, [...or] pay taxes"?
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by jmorris on Tuesday October 10 2017, @12:10AM (1 child)
The part that says United States Constitution and the cites to the U.S. Code? Notice it says nothing about the city, county or State? Nothing you quote says a city has to allow squatters to illegally seize their land, defile it and demand services from the city and its taxpayers. Under normal conditions cities don't haev immigration controls, anyone who buys or rents a place to live is allowed to come on in, work and pay taxes and be a citizen of the city. No law says that must always be so, that they must cede land to any random squatter who wanders in. In a sane world they would be quietly driven out right after the "homeless activists" were noisily driven out by an angry mob. Alas, we still live in Clown World. But Kaboom! comes, tolerance for the insane will decline in a good cleansing economic crisis.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Tuesday October 10 2017, @12:23AM
Words have specific meanings, jmorris. "citizen" has a generally accepted meaning which, in the US at least, has zero to do with residency, employment or tax revenue, despite what you think or say.
The word you *may* be thinking of is "resident."
Given that your blather is generally pretty incoherent, it might behoove you to try and be more precise with your language, assuming that's not too intellectually taxing.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 3, Interesting) by RamiK on Monday October 09 2017, @09:09AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF7hWzqdPDk [youtube.com]
Just to get a sense for the scale of the problem.
Or just move the whole camp upwind to Disneyland...
compiling...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @09:59AM
But found none.
Guess all of them got flushed. Oh wait...
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @10:27AM (6 children)
So they have Hepatitis so bad they had to disinfect the sidewalks from the blood, Gov Jerry Brown just signed a law by Scott Wiener decriminalizing the act of knowingly giving HIV to their partners or lying about HIV when donating blood, and now they are throwing away toilets for chamberpots, buckets, and I'd imagine just defecating in the street. I've visiting California before, but if I ever return, I doubt I'd be allowed to bring the required amount of hand sanitizer to make myself feel comfortable onto the plane.
(Score: 2) by jmorris on Monday October 09 2017, @01:05PM (5 children)
"They are a dying people, we should let them pass."
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @02:06PM
"The liberals or the homeless?"
"Yes"
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Monday October 09 2017, @10:42PM (3 children)
Kosh [wikipedia.org] you are not. You resemble this guy [wikipedia.org] much more closely.
What's more, you shouldn't take that out of context:
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by jmorris on Tuesday October 10 2017, @12:15AM (2 children)
Gotta make people work for it a little. And who do you think modded the AC above Touché for getting the joke but cleverly adding to it instead of merely proving he knows how to use Google.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Tuesday October 10 2017, @12:26AM
My point, similar to AC's (although I hadn't seen his/her response before writing my own) which seems to elude you is that phrase doesn't mean what you think it means.
What's more, I was merely being specific. I find that if you can't say what you mean, you can never mean what you say.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Tuesday October 10 2017, @12:31AM
I'd also point out that your disdain for your fellow humans is rather disgusting.
In fact, I expect we don't have much in common, except for both of us sleeping with your sister.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Sulla on Monday October 09 2017, @04:22PM (4 children)
They say the same thing about the homeless camps in my town and local journalists (and driving by and looking) have proven this to not be the case. Where I am at we have pretty good resources for women and children, keeping them off of the streets and in some sort of actual housing. Is Anaheim lacking in these?
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 2) by NewNic on Monday October 09 2017, @05:29PM (1 child)
They are Republicans. They are lacking in empathy for anyone except rich white guys.
lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Monday October 09 2017, @09:17PM
Actually, you will get help and charity from them as soon as you prostrate in front of the right altar.
Governments should let people fall as far as it takes, for then they will be ripe for My Church.
(Score: 4, Informative) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Monday October 09 2017, @06:59PM (1 child)
When I was homeless I met lots of people who refused housing because couples were not allowed to live there. There are women's shelters, men's shelters but no men's and women's shelters.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 09 2017, @08:20PM
That is unfortunate MDC, it's like they force the family to break-apart.