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posted by mrpg on Wednesday October 11, @06:05PM   Printer-friendly
from the took-way-too-long dept.

"A Utah police officer [Jeff Payne] who was caught on video roughly handcuffing a nurse because she refused to allow a blood draw was fired Tuesday in a case that became a flashpoint in the ongoing national conversation about police use of force."

Salt Lake City Police Chief Mike Brown made the decision after an internal investigation found evidence Detective Jeff Payne violated department policies when he arrested nurse Alex Wubbels and dragged her out of the hospital as she screamed on July 26, said Sgt. Brandon Shearer, a spokesman for the department.

Attorney Greg Skordas has said Payne served the department well for nearly three decades and questioned whether his behavior warranted termination. He couldn't immediately be reached for comment Tuesday.

Click here to read the entire story

Utah cop fired after arresting nurse who wouldn't draw blood
Some videos on youtube
Utah officer wants to apologize for nurse's controversial arrest


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  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 11, @06:22PM (4 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 11, @06:22PM (#580653)

    Attorney Greg Skordas has said Payne got away with bad behaviour in department for nearly three decades and questioned whether his client will lose his free ride pension after termination.

    FTFY.

    • (Score: 2) by nobu_the_bard on Wednesday October 11, @06:40PM (3 children)

      by nobu_the_bard (6373) on Wednesday October 11, @06:40PM (#580678)

      Man, chill out. It's the guy's attorney. It's his job to say stuff like that.

      The thing you have to watch out for is when politicians start talking like that.

      • (Score: 4, Touché) by Pax on Wednesday October 11, @06:57PM

        by Pax (5056) on Wednesday October 11, @06:57PM (#580692)

        Man, chill out. It's the guy's attorney. It's his job to say stuff like that.

        The thing you have to watch out for is when politicians start talking like that.

        aren't most politicians lawyers in the first place ??? :P

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Grishnakh on Thursday October 12, @03:49AM (1 child)

        by Grishnakh (2831) Subscriber Badge on Thursday October 12, @03:49AM (#580961)

        If it's your job to lie, then maybe you should find another line of work.

        If an entire profession requires its practitioners to lie, then maybe the profession needs a complete overhaul, and an introduction of mandatory ethics training and new regulations to penalize dishonesty.

        WTF kind of society are you going to have when the people running the society are professional liars and those who don't lie can't even survive in that position?

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday October 12, @03:13PM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday October 12, @03:13PM (#581163) Journal
          Welcome to conflict of interests. Get rid of those and we'll have something to talk about.
  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Gaaark on Wednesday October 11, @06:22PM (8 children)

    by Gaaark (41) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday October 11, @06:22PM (#580654) Homepage Journal

    I don't believe he violated 'department policy': he was trying to get the nurse to break the law with violating the persons rights without a warrant?

    He was trying to intimidate her and coerce her into doing what he wanted AGAINST THE LAW OF WHAT WAS ALLOWED.

    "Payne served the department well for nearly three decades and questioned whether his behavior warranted termination"

    If he'd only been there a week, would you question it?

    How about a month. Six months. A year. 5 years. 10 years.

    He was trying to intimidate her and coerce her into doing what he wanted AGAINST THE LAW OF WHAT HE WAS ALLOWED TO DO.

    Yes, he should be fired: he was supposed to uphold the law, NOT BREAK IT.

    Let's say he was caught robbing a liquor store: should he keep his job?

    He is a violent, controlling cop: yes, he should be fired.

    --
    --- That's not flying: that's... falling... with more luck than I have. ---
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by frojack on Wednesday October 11, @07:19PM (3 children)

      by frojack (1554) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday October 11, @07:19PM (#580718) Journal

      /best Paul Carrack voice: "How Long has this been going on".

      False arrest is itself a crime no?

      --
      No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
      • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Wednesday October 11, @07:31PM

        by Gaaark (41) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday October 11, @07:31PM (#580730) Homepage Journal

        YAH! THAT TOOOOO!!!!

        (in my Gilbert Gottfried voice)

        :)

        --
        --- That's not flying: that's... falling... with more luck than I have. ---
      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Thursday October 12, @02:30AM (1 child)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday October 12, @02:30AM (#580925) Journal

        I didn't have to browse far to find the post I wanted to make.

        Merely fired? Where are the charges for false arrest? That limited immunity crap has got to be examined, and clarified. In effect, the "limited" immunity has been turned into unlimited immunity. Cops can literally murder a citizen, and they get a few days paid leave? FFS, things are seriously wrong!

        --
        #Hillarygropedme
        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by TheGratefulNet on Thursday October 12, @02:35AM

          by TheGratefulNet (659) on Thursday October 12, @02:35AM (#580928)

          on a lot of social media, you'll often see a graphic of a cop with the words "I'm going to kick your ass; and get away with it."

          this is what we have become.

          and yet, we continue to praise cops, give them the benefit of the doubt and NEVER punish them like they would be punished if they weren't in blue costumes.

          make them liable like we are; if we break the law, it comes down hard on us. give them the same fear and watch how things change overnight.

          nah, will never happen. too many people are brainwashed to 'trust authority'. ie, repuglicans and other misguided moron.

          --
          "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    • (Score: 4, Informative) by requerdanos on Wednesday October 11, @11:20PM (2 children)

      by requerdanos (5997) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday October 11, @11:20PM (#580843) Journal

      Yes, he should be fired: he was supposed to uphold the law, NOT BREAK IT.

      I don't much care whether he's fired or not--what he did if sanctioned by the department of cops was "arrest with subsequent evaluation and release." But if not sanctioned by the department of cops (and it was, but shouldn't have been), it's assault and kidnapping, and he should live out his natural life underneath a nice prison somewhere. At the very least.

      If you or I had done such a thing, there would be no question: assault and kidnapping. But since he is a "cop" who committed assault and kidnapping, we are sitting here bickering about whether he should go scot free and be fired, or go scot free and not be fired. The answer is NEITHER, because he should be in prison, and whether he is also fired seems irrelevant to me, with all due respect.

      Let's say he was caught robbing a liquor store: should he keep his job?

      What does that have to do with it? I don't care if his employers are dumb enough to keep paying him or not. But if he's still free after assault and kidnapping, and he robs a liquor store, he should go to prison for armed robbery.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12, @01:02AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12, @01:02AM (#580885)

        If you or I had done such a thing, there would be no question: assault and kidnapping. But since he is a "cop" who committed assault and kidnapping, we are sitting here bickering about whether he should go scot free and be fired, or go scot free and not be fired. The answer is NEITHER, because he should be in prison

        Damned. Straight.

      • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Thursday October 12, @03:51AM

        by Grishnakh (2831) Subscriber Badge on Thursday October 12, @03:51AM (#580963)

        I agree completely. It's ridiculous that police get away with using violent force like this, and when they're grossly wrong, the worst they have to worry about is losing their cushy paycheck and having to find another department to hire them, or maybe downgrading to working mall security. Kidnapping is a huge felony, and this asshole should be prosecuted for it.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by khallow on Thursday October 12, @03:27PM

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday October 12, @03:27PM (#581164) Journal
      Let's also keep in mind why he did that. The poor comatose sap in question was the victim of an accident involving a suspect actively pursued by police. If the police could have evidence, real or manufactured, that the victim had illicit drugs or alcohol in his blood, that would greatly reduce the liability from the coming lawsuits. Given how quickly he illegally abused this nurse, I think it quite clear that he was willing to fake evidence as well to frame the victim (it's just another crime after this one). And no, he probably didn't think of that scheme all by himself.

      The icing on the cake is that the coma victim was a police officer as well. This case might not go higher up the food chain, but you won't find a clearer case of the harm that police corruption causes. They're even willing to eat their own.
  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Booga1 on Wednesday October 11, @06:26PM (14 children)

    by Booga1 (6333) on Wednesday October 11, @06:26PM (#580661)

    He was properly fired for arresting someone for obeying the law instead of him. At least keep him out of police work forever. He shouldn't be doing that job if he cares more about people doing what he tells them to do instead of obeying the law.

    He should be charged with abuse of power under color of authority, or whatever the relevant statute is that would put him in jail for a while.

    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday October 11, @06:33PM (4 children)

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday October 11, @06:33PM (#580668)

      should be charged

      Yes, he should, however - a firing is probably the best we might hope for under the current political climate. The Atty General notes that officer Payne is more than just an Apprentice, so he isn't sure that firing is appropriate, but even high level White House advisers can be fired for not fitting in with their leadership, we should at least consider firing the Police for not following the law. Isn't there an oath they take once or twice before becoming a "sworn officer of the law"?

      • (Score: 2) by frojack on Wednesday October 11, @07:21PM (3 children)

        by frojack (1554) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday October 11, @07:21PM (#580721) Journal

        The Atty General notes that officer Payne is more than just an Apprentice

        Where/when did the Atty General weigh in on this?

        --
        No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
        • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday October 11, @08:06PM (2 children)

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday October 11, @08:06PM (#580757)

          What, you mean Greg Skordas isn't Attorney General yet? Well, he's a fine man, a good Attorney, and I'm sure he could become Attorney General someday - after all, we've always been told that anyone could grow up to become president, and look what we have today - sure he was born to money and power, but just look at him and it's obvious that ANYBODY could be president.

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday October 12, @03:28PM (1 child)

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday October 12, @03:28PM (#581165) Journal
            So.... you're just talking out your ass then?
            • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday October 12, @04:17PM

              by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday October 12, @04:17PM (#581196)

              Sorry, was channeling theRealDonaldTrump for a bit there... also perhaps a little bit of the senility in the inlaws nursing home has been rubbing off lately.

    • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 11, @06:37PM (6 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 11, @06:37PM (#580671)

      And should never work as a police officer again, and be stripped of his weapons permit due to his charge. On another note... I just saw a marked San Diego Fire Dept Ford Excursion almost run over a pedestrian in the crosswalk at a local school today. No lights, no siren, just a fucking idiot taking his kid to school in a govt gas guzzler taxpayer vehicle.

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by NewNic on Wednesday October 11, @06:48PM (5 children)

        by NewNic (6420) on Wednesday October 11, @06:48PM (#580683)

        And should never work as a police officer again

        Good luck with that. He'll be back working for the local Sheriff or a nearby plice department in a couple of months.

        • (Score: 2) by frojack on Wednesday October 11, @07:24PM (3 children)

          by frojack (1554) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday October 11, @07:24PM (#580725) Journal

          Huge risk in hiring into any badged position once fired somewhere else. Most departments won't do it.

          If the guy just resigns and moves on, that's different. Even if there are complaints on record at the old place, because every cop accumulates complaints over time.
          But Fired is different. Insurance companies usually won't wear it.

          --
          No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
          • (Score: 5, Informative) by NewNic on Wednesday October 11, @07:58PM

            by NewNic (6420) on Wednesday October 11, @07:58PM (#580748)
          • (Score: 4, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Thursday October 12, @02:34AM

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday October 12, @02:34AM (#580926) Journal

            "Most departments won't do it."

            Citation needed. I think the Good Old Boy's network has him covered. All he need do is avoid media/public scrutiny for awhile, and he'll be forgiven.

            --
            #Hillarygropedme
          • (Score: 4, Informative) by Grishnakh on Thursday October 12, @03:56AM

            by Grishnakh (2831) Subscriber Badge on Thursday October 12, @03:56AM (#580966)

            BS. In addition to the other responder's link, there was a cop named Dan Lovejoy who murdered a woman at a Walgreens in Chandler AZ a while back: she was driving away from him and he shot her to death. He was fired by the Chandler PD for this, but not prosecuted. He got himself another job at the next county over, Pinal County, with the Sheriff's department there, which was run by some buddy of infamous Joe Arpaio.

            I'd say shooting someone to death who's fleeing is quite a bit worse than arresting someone improperly because they won't break the law for you.

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday October 12, @03:38PM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday October 12, @03:38PM (#581172) Journal
          What might make this case different is that he was trying to frame another police officer. No one would buy that he arrested a nurse for failing to provide access to a comatose patient without a warrant merely because he wanted to protect the patient (a patient who if he so happened to have evidence of illicit drugs or alcohol in his blood would greatly reduce the liability that the police department would be exposed to in this case). This patient happened to be a police officer.

          So said police department would have to either buy a pig in a poke (and not investigate at all why the officer had been fired) or be comfortable with hiring a police officer that was willing to do this to another police officer.
    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12, @01:35AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12, @01:35AM (#580905)
      "He should be charged with abuse of power under color of authority, or whatever the relevant statute is that would put him in jail for a while."

      Looks like a textbook case of false arrest/false imprisonment. He had no warrant, she was not committing any crime, nor did he have probably cause to believe she was committing a crime.

      The only problem is that whoever prosecutes him will need a new career. The union never forgets.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12, @08:20AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12, @08:20AM (#581033)

        In that case we will finally get actual numbers on the whole "few bad apples" thing. If the union has a problem with firing the bad apples, every officer who is still a member of the union afterwards is by definition a bad apple.

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by AssCork on Wednesday October 11, @06:40PM (15 children)

    by AssCork (6255) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday October 11, @06:40PM (#580675) Journal

    Defense attorneys love stuff like this. Every time a LEO (especially one with such a loooong career history like this) gets canned for breaking the law to obtain evidence, they start pulling case files and making phone calls.
    Did Officer/Detective McSlick work on your case?
    Did you get convicted?
    Want that conviction overturned? Or at least get a retrial?
    BAM.

    • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 11, @06:46PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 11, @06:46PM (#580681)

      And, of course, this is why the police must be above the law.

      Just think about all those Bad Guys™ that will go free! Nobody will be safe!

      How do we know they're Bad Guys™? They were arrested. Q.E.D.

      Safety trumps freedom every time. It's a no-brainer. (I suppose because one must needs lack a brain to think the way I'm satirizing. Observation: brains are a very rare organ with an unknown but probably nefarious purpose.)

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by ngarrang on Wednesday October 11, @06:48PM (4 children)

      by ngarrang (896) on Wednesday October 11, @06:48PM (#580685) Journal

      I was thinking the very same thing. He got caught on camera this time. But how many times in the last 30 years had he gotten away with such illegal and unethical behavior?

      • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday October 11, @08:00PM

        by DannyB (5839) on Wednesday October 11, @08:00PM (#580749)

        One of the linked articles said in the past he had been reprimanded for arresting some kids, transporting them somewhere else, releasing them and not documenting the incident.

        So it's all good. No kids were killed in that incident. No charges were filed. No harm done.

      • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday October 11, @08:09PM (2 children)

        by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday October 11, @08:09PM (#580763)

        I've heard this argument for speeding tickets, and it sucks. The whole system where 99.5% of the cars on the road are breaking the law, but we only enforce the law on random days at random times when an officer happens to be randomly present either running an end-of-month quota filling trap, or when someone manages to offend their concept of respect for the law too fragrantly, then "here's your ticket" and just count your lucky stars the we're not also fining you for the 10,000 previous times you broke the law and got away with it.

        • (Score: 2) by Spamalope on Thursday October 12, @10:35AM (1 child)

          by Spamalope (5233) on Thursday October 12, @10:35AM (#581072) Homepage

          Tickets: or driving while black; young; in a sports car; in a hot rod

          In practice, speeding isn't required at all. While driving a sports car 40mph in a 40mph zone and being passed, I was pulled over to be cited for 51. This is why I have a dash cam, and I really wish they'd be available when I was a teenager.

          My fav quote from an officer: "It doesn't matter if you're speeding now. If you drive a car like that you must have been speeding sometime."

          • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday October 12, @11:55AM

            by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday October 12, @11:55AM (#581085)

            My favorite quote after being detained for 35 minutes for running a yellow light: "I'm going to cite you for running that red light, you can take me to court but it will be your word against mine...."

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday October 11, @07:01PM (4 children)

      by Phoenix666 (552) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday October 11, @07:01PM (#580697) Journal

      And those thrown out convictions ought to sour the record of the commanding officer and lead to his firing as well. Unless the commander is held responsible for his officers' behavior, as they are in the military, he will not do his job and fire cops like these.

      --
      Washington DC delenda est.
      • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday October 11, @08:04PM (1 child)

        by DannyB (5839) on Wednesday October 11, @08:04PM (#580752)

        Something needs to be done about Police Unions interfering with and inserting themselves into how departments deal with police officer conduct.

        I am NOT a cowboy! And sppeed is substute fro accurancy.

        • (Score: 3, Informative) by Grishnakh on Thursday October 12, @03:57AM

          by Grishnakh (2831) Subscriber Badge on Thursday October 12, @03:57AM (#580967)

          Police unions should be banned.

          Do we have unions for military enlistees or officers? Fuck no. So why do cops need unions? They're always defending cops who are caught doing highly illegal things.

      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday October 12, @02:39AM (1 child)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday October 12, @02:39AM (#580929) Journal

        Agreed. Mere enlisted men, like myself, were held accountable for the actions of their subordinates. It isn't just commanders who are held accountable. So, if I can be taken to Captain's mast over a subordinate's actions, then WTF aren't police commanders held to at least the same standard?

        --
        #Hillarygropedme
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12, @05:34AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12, @05:34AM (#580990)
          Well his supervisor is getting a demotion...
    • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 11, @07:13PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 11, @07:13PM (#580711)

      > Defense attorneys love stuff like this.

      You know who also loves stuff like this? Innocent people who were imprisoned because of falsified evidence.

      If Officer "If You Know What's Good For You" Payne simply had to have some evidence, and wouldn't accept "no" as an answer, the evidence provided by the frightened citizen has good odds of being false. Not many people are willing to bet their entire life on the practically non-existent chance that a judge and jury will trust their word over an officers.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12, @01:30AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12, @01:30AM (#580902)

        We previously discussed forensics lab tech Annie Dookhan and how she stole evidence (drugs) and queered test results.
        Massachusetts Throws Out 21,587 Tainted Drug Convictions [soylentnews.org]
        Massachusetts: Tens of Thousands of Drug Convictions to be Overturned After Fraudulent Lab Tests [soylentnews.org]

        I had another thing in my personal queue but took so long to get back to it that I deleted it just the other day.
        Now, here we are again on a similar topic.

        Drug cases tainted by Sonja Farak should be dismissed [aclum.org]

        The ACLU of Massachusetts [says]
        [...]
        Almost every day for eight years, while working as a state chemist in the Amherst lab, Farak manufactured drugs, stole samples, and tested evidence while under the influence, throwing thousands of drug cases into question.

        Since the Amherst scandal first became public in January 2013, Farak's lab misconduct has been compounded by the AGO's misconduct because, according to the recent findings of Superior Court Justice, Assistant Attorneys General deliberately misled the court and defense lawyers about the evidence against Farak.

        This combined wrongdoing by Farak and the AGO, in turn, has been further intensified by the District Attorneys' failure to identify the "Farak Defendants" and notify them about the violations of their rights.

        -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by Pav on Wednesday October 11, @11:00PM (1 child)

      by Pav (114) on Wednesday October 11, @11:00PM (#580836)

      The police officers involved were trying to dodge responsibility for engaging in a dangerous car chase - the suspect they were persuing (against the rules) swerved in front of a semi-trailer and was killed, and the truck driver (who was actually a reserve police officer himself) was badly burned. There was no reason for them to seek a blood test unless they were trying to shift blame to a victim.

      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday October 12, @03:46PM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday October 12, @03:46PM (#581176) Journal
        And if he was willing to break the law in order to extort access to the above victim for a blood test, then he was probably willing to break the law in order to fake evidence of said blood test.
  • (Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 11, @06:53PM (15 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 11, @06:53PM (#580688)
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by takyon on Wednesday October 11, @07:17PM (3 children)

      by takyon (881) <{takyon} {at} {soylentnews.org}> on Wednesday October 11, @07:17PM (#580715) Journal

      Police unions are the lobbying and political front for departments that in many cases have devolved into armed gangs, or at the very least ignore or protect the "bad apples" within.

      Rape, murder, assault, drugs, "asset forfeiture", you can get away with it all as a cop.

      The police unions will complain about any level of accountability. It isn't enough that the officers are on paid vacation and will likely not be punished. It's also important to protect the officers from any consequences that their own actions, as documented by video, could possibly lead to. We wouldn't want to hurt their widdle feelings, now would we?

      If someone else, including the nurse, had managed to document the event with a smartphone or bodycam, it would be well within their rights to release that footage ASAP, regardless of any investigation. Keeping videos secret allows incidents like this to be swept under the rug. Plenty of people have been subject to far worse at the hands of the police with no recourse. Today, there are many bodycams, but they can still mysteriously malfunction. Always film the police.

      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12, @02:11AM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12, @02:11AM (#580921)

        If someone else made the video, that person would own the copyright on the video. When an officer makes a video, any copyright belongs to the officer or to the law enforcement agency. One right that copyright confers is the right to not publish.

        • (Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Thursday October 12, @02:20AM (1 child)

          by takyon (881) <{takyon} {at} {soylentnews.org}> on Thursday October 12, @02:20AM (#580923) Journal

          The bodycam videos mades by police officers are typically considered to be public records and subject to state FOIA laws [rcfp.org] (alt [google.com]). And someone paid taxes for that employee to make that video in the course of their duties.

          --
          [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12, @02:51PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12, @02:51PM (#581153)

            > The bodycam videos mades by police officers are typically considered to be public records

            Public records are not necessarily in the public domain.

            > and subject to state FOIA laws [rcfp.org] (alt [google.com]).

            "Because only a few states have passed state-wide rules regarding public access to BWC footage, most police departments are left to determine their own rules," says that page.

            The policy [rcfp.org] adopted by the Salt Lake City police says:

            The media captured via the AXON Flex Camera will only be uploaded to Evidence.com and will only be used for official purposes. Officers will not make copies of any audio or video recordings for personal use and are prohibited from using a recording device such as a telephone camera or secondary video camera to record media from Evidence.com or the MDT if video is viewed through the sync system.

            > And someone paid taxes for that employee to make that video in the course of their duties.

            That doesn't necessarily mean it's in the public domain. You can see on the utah.gov website that the state asserts copyright: "Copyright © 2017 State of Utah - All rights reserved."

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by DannyB on Wednesday October 11, @07:46PM (10 children)

      by DannyB (5839) on Wednesday October 11, @07:46PM (#580740)

      From T2FA (the 2nd FA, er, "friendly article") . . .

      Payne's lawyer, Greg Skordas, said he plans to appeal the decision. Skordas said Tuesday that Payne would still have a job if the video of the arrest hadn't gone viral.

      The problem is not that the video went viral. The problem is that there was a reason for it to go viral. An otherwise ordinary police interaction video would not go viral, because it is quite boring.

      This is why all police interactions with the public need to be live streamed to the cloud by a member of the public. The police have demonstrated, and this lawyer is so bold as to brazenly state the desire to prevent such viral videos from happening. The video going viral is the public's mechanism to ensure that the video cannot just "disappear".

      If you are relying on the police to record video, it is frequently turned off, or mysteriously missing. Or the un-edited version stored in one of the officer's personal home.

      If it is not live streamed to the cloud, the police can "accidentally" destroy the recording device.

      In the past, security cameras have led to the exposure of police crimes.

      It's not that all police are bad. But the few that are, affect the safety of the rest, over the long run. And we're seeing that now. The public trust of the police has been poisoned. Some departments seem to recognize that. Others would rather deny it, and try to obstruct efforts to increase transparency and public trust.

      Despite officer Payne's commendations and service, if he cannot follow the law and control his temper, then he really should not be in the job. And he should know this after such lengthy service. The fact that he thinks this is acceptable after such a long career demonstrates a serious lack of sound judgement.

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 11, @08:22PM (7 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 11, @08:22PM (#580773)

        It's not that all police are bad. But the few that are, affect the safety of the rest, over the long run.

        If the "good" cops are turning a blind eye or even defending the illegal and immoral behaviour of the "bad" cops, that makes them bad too.

        I doubt there are very many good cops at all.

        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by DannyB on Wednesday October 11, @08:38PM (1 child)

          by DannyB (5839) on Wednesday October 11, @08:38PM (#580785)

          I doubt there are very many good cops at all.

          I would like to be generous and assume there are. But I am fully aware that you could be correct. I am usually cynical (see: posting history) but I would like to give the benefit of the doubt. But there may come a point where I would say the same as you are saying.

          • (Score: 4, Informative) by mhajicek on Thursday October 12, @05:06AM

            by mhajicek (51) on Thursday October 12, @05:06AM (#580983)

            From those I've known, good cops don't last more than a couple years.

        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12, @02:11AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12, @02:11AM (#580920)

          A 44 year old movie explains how it happens:
          If you're a cop and you turn in a bad cop, subsequently, when you get in a jam and call for backup, no one comes.
          Undercover officer Frank Serpico gets shot in the face [youtube.com]
          More clips [google.com]

          ...and prosecutors won't press charges against rogue cops (because cops are the source of the cases that the DAs handle)--and even when they do prosecute a bad cop, it's half-hearted.
          ...but Reactionaries keep voting for and reelecting these sleazeballs.

          -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

        • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Thursday October 12, @02:50AM (1 child)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday October 12, @02:50AM (#580933) Journal

          Every working man and woman in the world is subjected to situations which they don't approve of. Sometimes, you even work for a complete freaking idiot, an incompetent boob. You know, and I know, that the working person seldom has any influence over the situation. You follow orders, do as you're told, and "don't rock the boat", or you're fired.

          I would like to think that MOST cops would turn on a fellow cop who flagrantly violates human rights, and/or commits major felonies. I can't KNOW that, but I would like to believe so. My interactions with police, over the course of many years, has convinced me that there are far to many bad cops. But, I've also met a lot of good cops. I've even met a few who have stuck their necks out to ensure that something resembling justice was dealt.

          A big part of our problem when trying to judge cops is, we don't get all the facts. The truth is kept out of sight, and we're left guessing most of the time. We're sure that a cop did something wrong - but we are never allowed to learn whether he did it out of malice, or it was a mistake, or maybe even the media got it all wrong.

          That secrecy needs to be done away with. Body cams are part of the solution to that. Every cop needs to wear one, and the cop must NOT have any control over that camera. He puts it on when he comes on duty, it records until he goes off duty. It's part of his uniform, and being out of uniform warrants a week of UNPAID suspension.

          Then, we can begin weeding out the bad cops. And, maybe, the good cops will take more pride in their jobs.

          --
          #Hillarygropedme
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12, @05:45AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12, @05:45AM (#580995)
            That's why I say most people aren't good or bad. A minority are bad and smaller minority are good. The rest follow what's the perceived norm.

            Just because you don't do the bad stuff makes you better but doesn't make you good.

            Go look at the Stanford prison experiment, the Milgram experiment and similar. There are a bunch who are good enough to refuse to go along but how many tried to call the police to say a crime may have been committed or similar?

            Thus if you really want good stuff to happen you should try to set up systems so that such things are less likely to happen. The camera stuff you mention might help.
        • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Thursday October 12, @04:02AM (1 child)

          by Grishnakh (2831) Subscriber Badge on Thursday October 12, @04:02AM (#580969)

          I think it's department-by-department. I think there's good cops out there, but they're in departments that are relatively well-run, and everyone there is pretty good. The bad cops don't last there. Then there's departments (and there's lots of them) where there's plenty of bad cops, and plenty more cops who cover for them and are bad by extension, and most importantly, the leadership is bad because they're complicit. In those departments, the good cops don't last.

          Human organizations tend to be like this: it's not just "a few bad apples". With real apples, a few bad ones will spoil the whole bunch--that's the rest of the saying that everyone keeps omitting for some reason. It works that way with humans too: like attracts like, so shitty/corrupt leadership eventually results in shitty/corrupt underlings.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12, @05:57AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12, @05:57AM (#580998)

            I think there's good cops out there, but they're in departments that are relatively well-run, and everyone there is pretty good. The bad cops don't last there.

            Nah they're not good it's just the department system/culture makes them behave better. Scatter the same bunch into bad departments and most will behave like the bad cops. Scatter the bad cops into good departments and most will start behaving better. Doesn't work if you keep them together though because then they get to keep their team/pack culture.

            If you want to find a good cop, go look at who is arresting or stopping the bad cops. The rest are just followers.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 11, @08:34PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 11, @08:34PM (#580778)

        Payne's lawyer, Greg Skordas, said he plans to appeal the decision. Skordas said Tuesday that Payne would still have a job if the video of the arrest hadn't gone viral.

        "My client shouldn't be convicted, because he wouldn't be if you didn't catch him."

        So their strategy is a Chewbacca defense. [wikipedia.org]

      • (Score: 2) by TheGratefulNet on Thursday October 12, @02:53AM

        by TheGratefulNet (659) on Thursday October 12, @02:53AM (#580935)

        if we had any balls, or power, as citizens, we'd demand that a law be enacted that voids all police results that have 'missing audio or video'.

        even if the camera really did jam or break on its own, that should not be an exception. this is to prevent abuse.

        abuse we all KNOW happens every day, since its unwatched and a guy in blue with a gun always gets to have his say over a guy who is without a gun and blue costume.

        all interactions with anyone in position of authority (especially ability to directly kill you) should be live streamed to 2 cloud locations. there should be immediate backup copies via whatever tech makes sense, so that the data is as undeletable as we can technically make it.

        any citizen should be able to view any video and make comments. comments could be moderated so that they get seen or buried, sort of like here.

        distributed free help. and by people who have a direct interest in not letting the powerful abuse their power.

        damn. we could solve so many problems if 'we' (the thinking people; not the psycho career politicians and con-men) had some actual say in how systems are setup. the 'justice' system needs a major overhaul, but those who are in it, keep themselves and their friends in it. it won't change by itself, and we seem completely kicked out of the process, at this point ;(

        --
        "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
  • (Score: 3, Funny) by krishnoid on Wednesday October 11, @07:09PM (3 children)

    by krishnoid (1156) on Wednesday October 11, @07:09PM (#580707)

    I really hope this leads to improved officer training.

    "Dude, if you're gonna rough someone up, nowadays you want to assume that someone's recording it on video, and don't pick a fetchin' *nurse* of all people."

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by DannyB on Wednesday October 11, @07:55PM (2 children)

      by DannyB (5839) on Wednesday October 11, @07:55PM (#580747)

      I really hope this leads to improved officer training.

      Hilariious! +1 Funny
      Call me cynical. The problem is a deeply ingrained cultural problem. The bad "training" is probably absorbed by new officers after their formal training. I'm sure the formal training does NOT include:

      • How to Manufacture Charges
      • How to Fake Evidence (pocket guide)
      • How to arrest someone for resisting arrest
      • If the suspect asks why he is being arrested, it is assault, and the basis for a resisting arrest charge, and physical force

      The new cops learn the bad stuff once they join the department. Departments need to fix this. They also need to better screen officers. Protip: don't hire the high school bully as your small town police officer.

      "Dude, if you're gonna rough someone up, nowadays you want to assume that someone's recording it on video, and don't pick a fetchin' *nurse* of all people."

      Learn the phrase "Stop Resisting!". Learn to repeat it until the victim is dead.

      • (Score: 2) by krishnoid on Wednesday October 11, @10:14PM

        by krishnoid (1156) on Wednesday October 11, @10:14PM (#580819)

        Don't forget the reference guide for operation of the various bodycams in use.

      • (Score: 4, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Thursday October 12, @02:55AM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday October 12, @02:55AM (#580936) Journal

        Some of the bad training is taught right at the academies. That decades old nonsense that a cop is justified killing anyone within 21 feet? It is standard dogma, taught from day one. Meanwhile, the person who originated that justification has retracted his statements. (Sorry, time for me to leave for work, or I'd find citations.)

        The fact is, a TRAINED assassin/assault squad member/hitman/whatever is dangerous to an armed officer at such distances. The average klutz who encounters a police officer poses no threat to that officer. Unfortunately, the training is ingrained into the police forces, and they have no plans to drop it anytime soon.

        --
        #Hillarygropedme
  • (Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 11, @07:23PM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 11, @07:23PM (#580724)

    This officer was well within his rights.

    No one may disrespect the police that way. Just like those commie, 'murika hating football players, disobeying the police is unpatriotic!

    That stupid bitch should have been shot dead for resisting arrest. Because resisting arrest is a crime, even if there is no basis for an arrest.

    What's more, shooting that disobedient 'murika hater would have sent the right message -- do as you're told. The police *own* you and if you speak up or disobey, you will have an immediate conference with hot lead.

    That's the 'murikan way and always will be!

    #MAGA

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by MostCynical on Wednesday October 11, @10:30PM (2 children)

      by MostCynical (2589) on Wednesday October 11, @10:30PM (#580825)

      Not funny; Need a "+1 Sad but true" mod.

      --
      (Score: tau, Irrational)
      • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12, @01:45AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12, @01:45AM (#580913)

        You mean a "+1, Most Cynical" mod :D

  • (Score: 3, Informative) by tangomargarine on Wednesday October 11, @08:01PM

    by tangomargarine (667) on Wednesday October 11, @08:01PM (#580750)

    Payne was also fired from a part-time job as a paramedic after he was caught on camera saying he'd take transient patients to the University of Utah hospital where Wubbels worked and take the "good patients" elsewhere as retribution.

    Payne had previously been disciplined in 2013 after internal-affairs investigators confirmed that he sexually harassed a female co-worker in a "persistent and severe" way.

    His supervisor sounds a bit out of it, too.

    Payne nevertheless insisted, saying the evidence would protect the man. Payne told Wubbels his supervisor [Lt. James Tracy] said he should arrest her if she didn't allow the blood draw. Tracy arrived on scene after the arrest and forcefully told a handcuffed Wubbels that she should have allowed the blood draw. She was later released without charge.

    Tracy, meanwhile, has risen to through the ranks since he was hired in 1995, earning commendations for drug and burglary investigations. He was reprimanded in 1997 for moving two handcuffed people from one location to another a few miles away and releasing them without documenting the incident.

    --
    "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by donkeyhotay on Wednesday October 11, @08:36PM (1 child)

    by donkeyhotay (2540) on Wednesday October 11, @08:36PM (#580782)

    Today the Navy announced that they relieved the CO and XO of USS John S. McCain, holding them responsible for a collision that killed 10 sailors. This effectively ends their careers. If they do not resign their commissions, then they'll be stuck in deadbeat jobs where they can't do any damage. There won't be any kind of "captain's union" that will come to their aid. Their peers will shun them.

    That's the difference between the military and the police. The military polices their own pretty well. The police, on the other had, do not. Every cop that gets in trouble can count on his union to come to his aid, and other police officers will support them.

    Here's the problem: every cop will admit that there are bad cops; but whenever a bad cop is found out, every other cop -- good or bad -- will lock arms with them in solidarity. It is in this way that all cops share the blame for one bad cop.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by NewNic on Wednesday October 11, @08:58PM

      by NewNic (6420) on Wednesday October 11, @08:58PM (#580793)

      What I find amusing is the common refrain in situations like this: "he was just one bad apple". But the full phrase is: "one bad apple spoils the barrel".

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by crafoo on Thursday October 12, @12:02AM

    by crafoo (6639) on Thursday October 12, @12:02AM (#580857)

    He may have violated department policies.
    But he also violated the law and should be in jail awaiting his hearing.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by boxfetish on Thursday October 12, @02:28AM

    by boxfetish (4831) on Thursday October 12, @02:28AM (#580924)

    I read early on that he radioed in the situation and was ordered by a superior to make the arrest. Was that true? And if so, can we assume that his superior will also be fired?

  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12, @05:00AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 12, @05:00AM (#580979)

    I've lost count of the number of cases of cops being acquitted after killing black/brown people. While firing Payne was the right thing to do and may even give the public some small amount of hope that policing could someday change for the better, it's still very telling that police are only held accountable when it's a white person with an important job whom they've wronged. Not trying to start anything, just say'n...

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