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posted by cmn32480 on Tuesday November 14, @04:56AM   Printer-friendly
from the nobody-else-will-look-out-for-you dept.

In Da Nang Vietnam, Australia and 10 other countries have tried to revive the TPP without the US.

Even though the analysis of the TPP has shown that the so called 'free trade agreement' has only minimal benefits and many drawbacks for developed nations the Australian Prime Minister is still set on having the agreement ratified. The Australian Prime Minister may be trying to push through the TPP before his government collapses due to the citizenship audit which is rapidly culling members of his party which could result in his party losing power in parliament. With the majority of the Australian public being against the TPP and with Malcolm Turnbull facing an election soon the reasons for this move to try to ratify the TPP is unknown.

If this trade agreement is accepted it will be the last in a series of detrimental trade agreements where Australia is on the wrong end of the stick. With Australia still reeling from the impact of the terrible China-Australia Free Trade Agreement the move to try to bring in another bad trade agreement may spell the end of the liberal government's long run in parliament.


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  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by dwilson on Tuesday November 14, @05:47AM (23 children)

    by dwilson (2599) on Tuesday November 14, @05:47AM (#596671)

    I am Canadian.

    Last I heard, (yesterday? day before? ish.) we aren't abstaining per-say, we only pushed to drop some of the more offensive intellectual property/patent sections. Thank god. I imagine most of the world has -no idea- how huge of a grassroots effort there was here to make that happen.

    If this trade agreement is accepted it will be the last in a series of detrimental trade agreements where Australia is on the wrong end of the stick.

    No, only the latest. Government is run by people, and people are a problem.

    --
    - D
    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday November 14, @06:28AM (5 children)

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 14, @06:28AM (#596682)

      Government is run by people, and people are a problem.

      Let's eliminate the people running the govt and let the govts happy and problem free.

      (large grin)

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @10:30AM (4 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @10:30AM (#596732)
        I think even in Australia most voters seem to care about "who gets to marry who" than about stuff like TPP.

        Whereas the corporations who "sponsor" the politicians don't really give a damn about whether gays get to marry or not[1] (that's why they sometimes seem to sponsor both/all sides).

        So the politicians give the voters what they want the most and the corporations what they want the most. The politicians get votes and $$$ and everyone gets what they want the most.

        Democracy working as designed. Win-win. Kinda. ;)

        [1] Even if the CEOs might personally care about "gay marriage" or "abortion" often when they are acting on behalf of the corporation, the resulting actions reflect a corporation that doesn't care e.g. the CEO's corporation will lobby for stronger monopolies for itself and not say a single word about "gay marriage".
        • (Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday November 14, @10:52AM

          by takyon (881) <takyonNO@SPAMsoylentnews.org> on Tuesday November 14, @10:52AM (#596736) Journal

          (that's why they sometimes seem to sponsor both/all sides).

          *Many sides.

          Big corporations and industries will almost always care more about trade/regulation legislation than confused citizens. Sometimes they care so much that they helpfully write the legislation themselves [nytimes.com].

          Meanwhile, corporations getting involved in the culture wars [businessinsider.com] can [nytimes.com] backfire [foxnews.com]. They have only gained confidence to support gay marriage as public opinion on the topic has taken a sharp turn in about 2 decades (in the U.S., maybe you know more about Australia). Now corporations could be boycotted for not providing benefits to certain employees or doing business in certain states [reuters.com].

          --
          [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
        • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday November 14, @02:07PM (1 child)

          by Phoenix666 (552) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 14, @02:07PM (#596787) Journal

          It's deleterious to repose so much power in entities that do not have humanity's best interests at heart. They in turn have completely subverted the political entities that are charged, on paper, with serving humanity's interests. It has produced a massive schism between what humanity wants and needs and what it has gotten.

          The system that succeeds the coming revolution must address that directly: how do we check the concentration of wealth and power in very few hands?

          --
          Washington DC delenda est.
          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday November 14, @06:54PM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 14, @06:54PM (#596906) Journal

            It has produced a massive schism between what humanity wants and needs and what it has gotten.

            Not really. [soylentnews.org] Don't be another Chicken Little advocating your favorite fantasy.

            The system that succeeds the coming revolution must address that directly: how do we check the concentration of wealth and power in very few hands?

            Revolutions routinely don't do that. The French Revolution and the Bolshevik Revolutions in the USSR didn't do that, for example. And what is the quality of that wealth that's being concentrated? Is it really worth what is claimed for its valuation? What I frequently hear from those who claim to care about wealth inequality is a downplaying of the value of wealth while simultaneous pumping up the supposed power of that wealth.

            Finally, if wealth inequality is so important, then why do so few people bother accumulating wealth? I'm not seeing the reason to care when at least half of US citizens (among the wealthiest of the world's population) can't be bothered to save significant money.

        • (Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday November 14, @10:37PM

          by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Tuesday November 14, @10:37PM (#597025)

          I think I remember everyone having very strong views about gay marriage while our parliament debated the issue. Fortunately for us the extreme religious fringe trotted out their usual arguments against and were roundly mocked, so the bill was passed.

          A few years later it is almost completely uncontroversial and no-one really cares.

          Gay marriage has even failed to undermine my own heterosexual marriage and I was promised that it would.

    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @06:30AM (5 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @06:30AM (#596683)

      agree about.... it is that a lot of people in a lot of disparate nations are electing officials that are not acting in their interests under the false notion that someday they will be in the group whose interests those officials do represent and prefer spending time in that imaginary world rather than in the real world where they could enjoy freedoms where they are today if only they would elect officials who shared those values.

      I am glad your Canadian grassroots efforts lead to change. Here in America we seem to be regressing on that front, having polarized harshly into the alt-left and the alt-right, with both groups mocking rather than listening to, the alt-inbetween.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @10:50AM (4 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @10:50AM (#596735)

        It's pretty lame to call "both sides" in what is happening in the US. The right has simply gone ape shit - seemed to start during GW Bush when the propaganda machine started 24/7 with war/fear/guns/gold/gays. End of America!111!

        • (Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Tuesday November 14, @12:32PM (3 children)

          by bzipitidoo (4388) on Tuesday November 14, @12:32PM (#596764) Journal

          The right has gained, no doubt there.

          As for going ape shit, that's hardly new. Those sort of people have always been around. About 30% of the population finds thinking for themselves such hard work, life very uncertain and scary, and would rather follow a Great Leader anywhere, even if that means war and mass executions, in hopes that it will lead to the Promised Land. They won't follow just anyone, has to be someone who seems to be one of them.

          When they become so powerful that they can push the nation their way, watch out. That's what lead to Nazi Germany and Khmer Rouge Cambodia. Such movements have soon collapsed when the nation is no longer able to maintain the lies and illusions, and the war machine runs short on material, labor, and cannon fodder. It may be that soldiers and war casualties disproportionately come from this 30% of people. The worst thing the rest of us can do is stand by and let the greedy rich push those people to the edge, corrupt and steal all they can, let the powerful make life genuinely more uncertain and scary for them, meanwhile framing some other group for their troubles. Blame the liberals, or the Jews, Muslims, Catholics, brown people, gay people and purple cartoon characters, scientists and nerds, even financiers, whatever. Revolutions feed on trouble.

          Now that we have nuclear bombs, humanity can't afford total war, that's a consequence of this problem that we can no longer accept.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @02:11PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @02:11PM (#596790)

            and it never seems to thin out the people causing the problem. they take root like weeds and take over again, given enough time and distractiosn that the other mindsets cause.

          • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @03:39PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @03:39PM (#596828)

            Hitler demonized the Jews, blaming them for pretty much everything. Jews were the target of the day.

            Today's left likes to blame the white males. Merely posting "It's OK to be white" on college campuses has caused the left to freak out pretty well. The left employs a "progressive stack" instead of equality; they have to have a villain to blame.

            The rest of the politics mostly match up too. The only difference is perhaps the choice of globalism over nationalism.

            Like today's left, Hitler had a fondness for Islam. You can find Korans with swastikas on the cover.

            Like today's left, Hitler was into social programs. He made workers join a union. He exerted government control over industry.

            The more things change, the more they stay the same.

            • (Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday November 14, @10:41PM

              by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Tuesday November 14, @10:41PM (#597027)

              So much historical revisionism in this post I don't even know where to start.

              Possibly the stupidest thing is that there is a "left" in US politics.

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @06:31AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @06:31AM (#596685)

      Last I heard, (yesterday? day before? ish.) we aren't abstaining per-say, we only pushed to drop some of the more offensive intellectual property/patent sections.

      With US out of the TPP, what stopped the canadian side renegotiate the IP side?
      I don't think Vietnam or Philippines would have objected.

      • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday November 14, @08:54PM

        by Gaaark (41) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 14, @08:54PM (#596974) Homepage Journal

        I think it IS due at least in part to the grass root pressure: Trudeau WANTS to feed his piggies, but the sheep are a woken giant.

        Woken. Woken?

        Supposably?

        The sheep have woken?
        Supposably!

        --
        --- That's not flying: that's... falling... with more luck than I have. ---
    • (Score: 1, Redundant) by frojack on Tuesday November 14, @06:45AM (2 children)

      by frojack (1554) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 14, @06:45AM (#596693) Journal

      Even after we've seen it, nobody is fully aware of how many under the table codicils Obama had tacked on to that monstrosity. (And no, I'm not forgetting that John Boehner and Paul Ryan were un-indited co-conspirators in that effort.)

      While you were fretting about the largely sacrificial "intellectual property/patent sections" who knows what is in 800 pages of crap nobody was allowed to read until the bitter end?

      --
      No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
      • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday November 14, @02:13PM (1 child)

        by Phoenix666 (552) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 14, @02:13PM (#596791) Journal

        Was anybody actually allowed to read it? The most I read was that Congressmen had to go into a triple-sealed vault, naked, with no paper, pencil, or Blackberry, to read the text of the treaty. And then afterward they were roofied to ensure they forgot what they had read.

        Me, I don't give a shit what they claim was in it, but anything put under those kinds of constraints are nothing a democracy should have anything to do with. I really rather want to subject all the diplomats and authors of that treaty to public pillory for even proposing those constraints.

        Even with all the chaos and idiocy of the Trump presidency, he still did a massive good by killing the TPP. It was a greater good than all the last three presidents before him managed, combined. For that reason I would still choose Trump over Hillary, the venal, the corrupt, the apostate.

        --
        Washington DC delenda est.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @08:39AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @08:39AM (#596713)

      The last that this government led by Turnbull will put in as they are dead in the water now with the citizenship scandal culling their ranks

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @09:33AM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @09:33AM (#596721)

      (Fellow leaf.) Holy shit. Do you have more on the exact changes?

      I produce music and the thing basically said they wanted to send me to butt-rape prison for sampling orphaned works.

      • (Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday November 14, @09:49AM (1 child)

        by takyon (881) <takyonNO@SPAMsoylentnews.org> on Tuesday November 14, @09:49AM (#596723) Journal

        I produce music and the thing basically said they wanted to send me to butt-rape prison for sampling orphaned works.

        Extradition to the U.S.?

        --
        [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @11:01AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @11:01AM (#596740)

          Probably. Even the Canadian stuff I've sampled is mostly on US-owned labels.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @10:53AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @10:53AM (#596737)

        Why do you want actual information? You've been TOLD by someone on the internets that you're going to butt-rape prison. DO YOU WANT TO GET BUTT-RAPED???

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @11:04AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @11:04AM (#596743)

          I read the ratification candidate draft of the TPP back when the US was involved. It invents new copyright violations and criminalizes them, among many existing ones.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @06:31AM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @06:31AM (#596684)

    I am Australian.

    Sorry.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Tuesday November 14, @06:39AM (1 child)

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 14, @06:39AM (#596688)

      What are you sorry for? TPP negotiations started under the prev Labor govt, not your (or my for the matter) fault we have an idiotic political class.

      The only ones that would not have brought us into TPP are maybe the Greens, and I don't think they'll form a govt any time soon.

      • (Score: 2, Informative) by jb on Wednesday November 15, @04:35AM

        by jb (338) on Wednesday November 15, @04:35AM (#597149)

        The only ones that would not have brought us into TPP are maybe the Greens, and I don't think they'll form a govt any time soon.

        Yes, the Greens were most definitely against TPP (see Senator Hanson-Young's dissenting opinion in the JSCOT report for a good example of their position).

        But they were far from "the only ones".

        Senator Xenophon (NXT) famously called TPP "a dud deal". Bob Katter MP (KAP) described TPP as the greatest attack on democracy in 500 years. The Queensland Nationals pointed out that it was discriminatory. And if memory serves me correctly, Senator Lleyonhjelm (LDP) didn't care for it either.

        The extreme left (Australian Communist Party) and the extreme right (One Nation) both condemned TPP -- now there's two mobs who almost never agree on anything.

        Fact is, as far as Australian politics goes, it has only ever been the Labour & Liberal parties who supported TPP.

        Granted, it is extremely unlikely that any government could ever be formed in Australia without including either Labour or Liberal.

        The best we can hope for is that in the next parliament the balance of power will be held by NXT, KAP or LDP., since "if you ratify that treaty I'll join the Opposition in a motion of no confidence" can be one hell of a motivator...

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @06:45AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @06:45AM (#596692)

      So am i, and while I am against these agreements I do not see myself in the majority, as suggested in TFS. In fact many still think these "free trade agreement"s are about freeing up trade. I wish I was better at explaining the problem...

  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @06:57AM (8 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @06:57AM (#596695)

    So, the summary is giant opinion piece? As far as I know, everyone with any concept about trade deals, like these types of deals. US very much wanted to have some IP protections in there, but since they are out some of the more draconian stuff US demanded, is being culled.

    So, what's up with the opinion piece? Are we now for the nationalistic, pro-tariff type trade like Trump wants? Or the one Brexit is going to achieve? What's the deal with you people? Is it the case of "I blame foreigners for my job losses but I want cheap crap in Walmart anyway" idiocracy taking over?

    Free trade deals have brought up more people out of poverty than anything else in the last 100 years. Everyone is generally better of. The only problems of concern have to do with INCOME INEQUALITY and that is the main reason why some places have been losing real income. Nothing to do with China. Everything to do with bullshit that started as Regonomics, continued as Bushonomics and now being exponentiation by Trumponomics idiocracy. Seriously people. Look at the fucking numbers. The math doesn't lie where the money goes. US is richer than ever, but all that money is not going to the "poors", it's going to the Trumps. And that is one thing where you can "believe me" - look at the NUMBERS.

    Or is it perception problem? You know, Soviet Union collapsed not because of anything but people's disillusionment with the establishment and buying the fairy tale Hollywood manufactured in the 1980s about lifestyle of Americans - land of the free and careless. So is there a disconnect here between what life you thought would be like and what reality is like?

    So which is it? Perception issues? Or idiocracy economics? Because nations (on average, because of things like Syria and Ukraine) are better off than they ever were in the past so all this FUD seems to be rooted in something else than reality. USA is better off than at any time in the past. And like I said, INCOME INEQUALITY is the problem in America, but it seems no one gives a rat's ass to talk about that reality.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by c0lo on Tuesday November 14, @09:43AM (5 children)

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 14, @09:43AM (#596722)

      Free trade deals have brought up more people out of poverty than anything else in the last 100 years.

      Is it the only solution to the problem of bringing out people from poverty? (was this problem tried by any other approach? If yes, citation needed - I'm curious to see which others were tried)

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @03:29PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @03:29PM (#596823)

      Just because it's called a free trade bill doesn't mean it actually is one. If it were a free trade bill it wouldn't need to be thousands of pages long, and certainly wouldn't include all sorts of things to restrict trade (like the IP extensions).

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @04:24PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @04:24PM (#596847)

      US very much wanted to have some IP protections in there, but since they are out some of the more draconian stuff US demanded, is being culled.

      "Intellectual property" [gnu.org] is a propaganda term (and sadly used in the legal system all too often) that I recommend avoiding. Also, "protections" carries a positive connotation, which I would avoid in this context. These "IP protections" are/were actually restrictions on your freedoms.

      The TPP had other issues besides that, such as the ISDS, which would have decreased national sovereignty and gave far too much power to corporations. The TPP is not a free trade treaty; it is a corporate supremacy treaty.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @10:42AM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @10:42AM (#596734)

    Note this is not liberal but Liberal, which is OZ is actually the conservative party. The liberal party is Labour.

    Godwin: much like the Hilter was leader of the National Socialist Party in Germany. Not socialist.

    • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday November 14, @02:18PM (1 child)

      by Phoenix666 (552) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 14, @02:18PM (#596793) Journal

      Whoa, buddy. You blew minds right there. You mean the Nazis weren't socialists? It's in the name.

      You mean the PATRIOT Act is not patriotic? It's in the name.

      You mean the Democratic Party is not democratic? It's in the name.

      It's like you're saying people say one thing and mean another. No. Way.

      --
      Washington DC delenda est.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @08:10PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @08:10PM (#596960)

        Well the snark at the end of TFS is aimed at the "liberal" government whereas it would be more accurate if it said "conservative".

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @11:03AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @11:03AM (#596741)

    ... just presenting the piece on its own, without the heavily-tilted opinion? I dumped Slashdot partly because of all the editoriollocks. Sad to see it here.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @11:38AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14, @11:38AM (#596751)

    Big Mickey (kangaroo) mouse, with kangaroo pouch loaded with DRM.

  • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday November 14, @02:24PM (1 child)

    by Phoenix666 (552) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 14, @02:24PM (#596796) Journal

    In America politicians like these would be tarred and feathered, but what's the Australian equivalent? What do you guys do to punish scoundrels like these, bury them up to the neck, douse them with eucalyptus oil, and leave them to be nibbled to death by koalas? Or do you lash them to deck chairs, send them aloft with many scores of helium-filled party balloons, to drift out to some remote place in the outback where they alight and begin a romance with many setbacks but an ultimate, heartwarming conclusion?

    --
    Washington DC delenda est.
    • (Score: 1) by jb on Wednesday November 15, @04:41AM

      by jb (338) on Wednesday November 15, @04:41AM (#597156)

      As an Australian, I think that the most fitting penalty for an Australian politician who deliberately acts against Australia's national interest would be to exile him to the USA.

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