The whole juggernaut that is now Linux on Dell started as the brainchild of two core individuals, Barton George (Senior Principal Engineer) and Jared Dominguez (OS Architect and Linux Engineer).
It was their vision that began it all back in 2012. It was long hours, uncertain futures and sheer belief that people really did want Linux laptops that sustained them. Here is the untold story of how Dell gained the top spot in preinstalled Linux on laptops.
[...] This first attempt at Linux on laptops failed mainly because most non-technical users were blinded by the cheap price and didn't understand what they were actually buying.
[...] This time the duo had the right initial market. It was big, commercial web-scale operators and their developers who were crying out for a fully supported Linux laptop.
People who do technical work, like Linux. People who don't, don't.
(Score: 3, Informative) by jimtheowl on Friday November 17 2017, @05:43PM (40 children)
I was ordering Desktops at the time, but they could not offer an explanation, so I just assume that they were still paying the Windows tax by fear to get into trouble.
Further, only non technical people or people that only know Windows believe that you need a technical mind to use Linux.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Grishnakh on Friday November 17 2017, @05:55PM (36 children)
Several manufacturers have offered Linux laptops, most notably Dell, and the Linux price has frequently been higher than the Windows price. This isn't because of a "Windows tax" (Microsoft forces the manufacturer to pay a license fee for every Windows laptop), it's because of the "Windows crapware subsidy": those Windows laptops don't come with a clean copy of Windows, they come with a special version of Windows that's preloaded with a bunch of crapware from various companies like McAfee, Symantec, Adobe, and others, usually some kind of "starter version" of software, or some kind of small promotional executable which encourages you to put in your credit card number and purchase a copy of their software. For every one of these, the software maker pays the laptop maker a fee, which frequently ends up being more than the Windows license fee. So in effect, those crapware makers are subsidizing your laptop purchase in the hope that you'll buy their full version of software.
Linux laptops don't come with crapware, so there's no subsidy. You might save on the Windows fee, but it's possible they're paying a small fee per machine to Ubuntu (or whoever), and with no crapware subsidy, the final price ends up a little higher than the Windows version.
(Score: 5, Funny) by Freeman on Friday November 17 2017, @06:05PM (14 children)
So, what you're saying is, we need more crapware for Linux?
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Grishnakh on Friday November 17 2017, @06:45PM (3 children)
Honestly, it wouldn't hurt. I wouldn't mind having tons of crapware on a preloaded-Linux laptop, including crapware that sends all my private data to some company's server, as long as they're paying me by reducing the purchase price (perhaps down to zero...).
It doesn't matter to me, because I'm just going to wipe the HD and install my preferred distro anyway. The distros they choose are always some bullshit distro with some bullshit DE like Gnome. And no one ever partitions HDs right anyway.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @09:59PM (2 children)
Ubuntu is ready for you now.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @10:23PM (1 child)
The April 2016 release disabled the Ubuntu Shopping Lens by default. [google.com]
It was something they tried and they responded to the negative feedback appropriately.
Get over it already.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 5, Interesting) by requerdanos on Saturday November 18 2017, @02:43AM
After fighting *for* it furiously for a time, they finally realized they were not going to get away with it and disabled it.
That's absolutely, completely false. Among other things, Canonical's Shuttleworth said at the time "Don’t trust us? Erm, we have root." and that this crap was necessary to make Ubuntu "World Class." Canonical has never, ever said anything then or since that indicates that they "get" that hijacking your local queries by default (rather than knowing, intentional opt-in) is wrong in any way--only argued incessantly that it was fine, not a problem, a desirous feature, etc. It was the least appropriate responses imaginable. As bad as no response other than "Get over it".
That would be exactly the wrong reaction. We already know that Canonical--and Shuttleworth personally--believe that spyware for profit is a good and noble thing and the only question in their minds is, how to do it and get away with it (not whether it's the right thing to do). "Never Forget" would be more appropriate, given Shuttlworth's rants about not getting his way.
The fact that they have thus far not found a way to get away with it does NOT mean that it's all good. Rather, it means, we know not to trust them and know that they have not changed any. at. all. They will spy on you for profit if they think of a way, and based on what they said at the time, they are doing plenty of thinking trying to come up with a way.
Please do not spread lies about them now being 'over it' just because they didn't get away with it. They aren't over it, and their potential users shouldn't be either--no one should use Ubuntu without making an intelligent decision with eyes wide open about Canonical's attitude on the matter.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by DannyB on Friday November 17 2017, @06:45PM (8 children)
I don't think he's saying that. No need to put crapware on Linux. I would be happy to pay the higher price to not have crapware and ads.
Of course, I'd be even happier to pay the lower price and not have the crapware or ads.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Friday November 17 2017, @07:36PM (4 children)
I'd be happy to get a laptop for free that's full of crapware and ads and even sends all my private data off somewhere. Why would you not want this?
In short, what kind of Linux user uses the OS that's pre-loaded by the manufacturer? Crapware and spyware doesn't matter when you just wipe the HD as soon as you get the computer and install a better distro.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday November 17 2017, @08:37PM (2 children)
It depends on whether the "Ubuntu" option is the same price as the "FreeDOS" option. If I'm going to wipe the preinstalled OS first (which I am), then FreeDOS may be the actual choice I want.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Friday November 17 2017, @08:44PM
Yeah, if the FreeDOS option cost more, why would you pay for that if you're going to wipe the HD anyway? In fact, hypothetically speaking, if you could get the exact same laptop with Windows preloaded for $100 less, why bother with those more expensive options? Just to prevent MS from getting a license fee (which effectively is being paid by the crapware vendors, plus an additional kickback to you)?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @10:56PM
OTOH, if it ships with Linux, you can check to see that all the hardware is supported under Linux before paving over the pre-installed distro.
N.B. Yeah, this is pretty ancient lore.
Most whitebox vendors have learned to just avoid hardware manufacturers who won't support Linux properly.
(Some years back, AMD muffed a quarter-billion dollar contract because they didn't offer Linux drivers.)
The partitions are probably already ext4 as well.
.
Heh. The thing that amused the hell out of me was when the vendors would pay to have their crapware installed on Windoze boxes then, after collecting that fee, the whitebox vendors would offer a de-crapped box to consumers^W suckers for an additional fee.
.
FTFS: People who do technical work
...in addition to those who don't want to paste a new layer of security^W band-aids on their OS weekly^W daily^W hourly.
...nor wait until the 2nd Tuesday of next month for patches
...nor defrag.
It's been quite a while since I had to maintain a Windoze box.
I may have (gratefully) forgotten some of the nonsense that I had to tolerate back in the day.
It took several years for them to catch up, but I understand that MICROS~1 now offers virtual desktops (multiple workspaces).
I liked those from the 1st day I used Linux.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 20 2017, @03:22PM
Reminds me of the punchline to an old joke: "We've established that you'll prostitute yourself. Now we're simply negotiating the price."
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Monday November 20 2017, @03:29PM (2 children)
I honestly don't understand why any serious Linux user would object to having tons of crapware and ads, in exchange for a lower price. What exactly is your objection? Are you really going to use the distro that comes pre-loaded? If so, you're not much of a serious Linux user are you?
(Score: 2) by cykros on Monday November 20 2017, @04:06PM
Even using pre-loaded Windows instead of a wipe and fresh install always struck me as immensely lazy and potentially costly down the line. Before I moved to Nexus/Pixel phones (which are 100% pure vanilla Android, so it's clean), I didn't even treat my phone with such carelessness.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday November 20 2017, @05:04PM
You're right. On the only box I ever got that had Linux pre-installed (1999, with Red Hat), I promptly installed SuSE 5.1.
Getting Linux pre-installed from the factory, instead of FreeDOS gives a level of confidence that all of the included hardware is supported by Linux -- even if you're going to wipe it.
I had not thought this through very carefully. Really, the price matters more, since I am convinced I would wipe it.
In more recent years, I have gone with Windows boxes, wiped and reinstalled. And most recently a very nice custom built box (not built by me). I built one back in the early 2000's. It was a fun adventure. But I'm a software guy.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @10:14PM
Well, you get systemd, don't you?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Friday November 17 2017, @06:12PM (16 children)
"crapware from various companies like McAfee, Symantec, Adobe, and others,"
You mention only programs that have some minimal redeeming value. When the first Athlons were hitting the market, the wife decided to buy a computer, and settled on a Compaq. Windows XP, Athlow XP, enough hard drive and memory to make a respectable machine. It really looked good - it had some of that crapware you mention. But, performance really sucked! I was still on a Super Socket 7 machine (we couldn't afford to get hers, and mine too) and my AMD 450 mobile with less than half her memory actually seemed to perform better.
We started the search for malware. The antivirus found nothing, and we were kinda stumped for awhile. Oddly, there was a process that used CPU all the time. Turns out, it belonged to an online game thing - there was a little black raven in the toolbar for it. Wife only played it occassionally. I took a good look at it, and uninstalled it. Things went kinda haywire, and we did a system restore. There's that game again. Uninstall it, things go haywire again. So, I do some searches, and find that many people are complaining about that stupid game. So, I search some more - turns out that game was utter bullshit. They only had a few games on the site, most of them sucked, the others only moderately interesting. But, the game site was slurping data, all googlesque.
It took a couple days to finally track down the method to get rid of that game system from her computer. And, at last, her computer did noticeably outperform my Socket 7.
Compaq may have been the worst for installing malware - I've heard and read where people say that. Worst or not, they really sucked because of it.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Friday November 17 2017, @06:31PM (15 children)
Nothing's changed in that regard with Dell.
You still to this day get a machine so bloated with crapware they run dog slow.
My HOA association purchased a machine for association business. All new and shiny and Windows 10. It literally took two days of crapware removal to get it to the point it could run quickbooks and Office Libre at the same time.
And dell is forever pushing updates to their service and support app which sneaks some of those microsoft malware back on. At any given power up, you never know how long it will take you to be productive.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Friday November 17 2017, @06:42PM (14 children)
It literally took two days of crapware removal to get it to the point it could run quickbooks and Office Libre at the same time.
Can't you just download a clean corporate copy of Windows and install that instead? Heck, even buying a license for a full clean copy is cheaper than 2 days of your time.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @07:04PM (4 children)
> even buying a license for a full clean copy is cheaper than 2 days of your time
Haven't tried this with a Dell laptop, but did try it with a ThinkPad (Win XP years). No go, something(s) were missing and installing WinXP Pro from a Microsoft optical disk would not boot into Windows. Didn't go further, but maybe Lenovo added some drivers or something?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Grishnakh on Friday November 17 2017, @07:38PM (2 children)
Now that you mention it, that was a big problem with Windows for a long time: you couldn't just install a clean copy, because you had to get a bunch of driver discs or download drivers from the manufacturer's website(s), and then go through a bunch of rebooting cycles to get all the drivers installed and the OS installed.
I thought new versions of Windows had mostly built in drivers for most common hardware so this wasn't so much of a problem as it was, but I haven't messed with Windows installation in a very long time so I don't really know.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @08:37PM
Most hardware now comes with drivers distributed through windows update and it's been this way for some time. This usually works fine (though reboot cycles are still a thing).
It has also been possible for a long time to add drivers to the installation medium (this was very important if you wanted to install Windows 2000 on a SATA drive and didn't feel like digging out a 3.5" floppy disk to load your disk controller driver).
(Score: 3, Interesting) by choose another one on Friday November 17 2017, @08:52PM
Worked in Microsoft or mixed shops for years, clean installs were a problem with NT and 2000 but from XP onwards were typically straightforward, particularly once the "slipstream" tools were available (not sure they were out with XP at the start, but certainly used with XP) to merge drivers and updates into install images. For many years first job for anyone on the team getting a new machine (and they were typically Dells) was to reinstall clean windows, less technical teams (sales, marketing, etc.) tended to live with the Dell install or beg a dev to do it for them.
Dells as I recall came (maybe still do) with a drivers folder on the root disk, if not a drivers CD, worth copying that before you reformat the disk - although they can usually be downloaded from Dell direct it's a bit of a pain if the driver you need is networking...
Having MSDN or Technet available possibly helped, but since Win 7 I am pretty sure downloadable releases were available to anyone. Then you just need the licence key, typically stuck on the machine somewhere. On Dell laptops the sticker may be under the battery, worth noting it before you start the install.
Clean installs are no big deal, as long as you have done a few and have relatively recent practice (reformat and reinstall every year is good practice anyway, reminds you to organise your data properly separable from the OS, which isn't always obvious in windows, and can be used to test your backups) unless you haven't done them for ages, or ever, in which case there is a big fear factor - but no different to Linux in that, or restoring from backup!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @11:31PM
With closed-source proprietary stuff, you don't actually -own- anything.
The word "buy" is inappropriate in those cases.
I prefer the term "pay for".
...and it would be M$ getting the money. 8-(
.
quickbooks and Office Libre
Heh. They were half-way to dumping Windoze.
My question WRT payware apps is always, "Are you actually -using- features that are -only- available in those?"
...or would a gratis and libre app do all that you need?
I'm wondering how long ago that experience was.
(FOSS) FrontAccounting [google.com] has been around for a bunch of years.
Jack Wallen was praising it going back to 2011. [google.com]
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @08:17PM (6 children)
You don't even need to buy a new license to reinstall Windows on a laptop that came with preinstalled with Windows. The computer comes with a license.
On older versions (Windows 7 and older) you had to do phone activation when using the OEM key from the sticker (which was easy enough) but newer versions have the license stored in nvram so it "just works" (although I assume this makes it harder to transfer the license to another computer, which was possible before).
Even better is to install a free operating system.
(Score: 2) by choose another one on Friday November 17 2017, @09:13PM (5 children)
Allegedly, once activated, the license is tied to bits of the hardware config (and the pairing is stored on MS servers) - change too much and it doesn't just work anymore. Change the motherboard and I think you are guaranteed to need to ring up and beg - officially I think you need to buy a new license (but even MS knows that is stupid and that if you've just had to warranty-replace the motherboard you shouldn't be out the cost of a license).
Some OEM license keys are allegedly locked to the BIOS so they'll only work on machines from that OEM (or that model), however I have also seen said allegedly locked OEM keys work absolutely fine on new custom build gaming rigs.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @09:33PM
I had a computer motherboard die on me at work. I bought the parts for a new system (SuperMicro chassis, new motherboard, etc.), but no OS. I wanted to just install a clean copy of Win7 and activate it with the license key that was on the chassis of the computer that died. I had an OEM install disk and I used that to load the software, but it wouldn't take the software key nor activate.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by edIII on Saturday November 18 2017, @02:14AM (2 children)
For the record, I've never, ever, not once, been turned down by the clearinghouse when I called them. I did have an issue once, but it was a typo in the key relayed to me by a 3rd party (our fault).
They just activate it for you, Every. Single. Time.
Maybe I've been lucky, who knows.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @03:01AM
When Win 7 first came out it was in preview in technet while I was in school with access to tech net. I Installed it once but was having issues so I went to reinstall and it made me call the clearing house. Took me a while to explain to them that I was just fiddling with my own computer and was a student. They did eventually ok it though.
(Score: 2) by choose another one on Sunday November 19 2017, @01:16PM
Actually, nor have I. I have never had a licence transfer fail either. Stories of failure or refusal to activate are always hearsay or rumour at best.
Maybe I too have been lucky, but I don't have that much first-hand data, and I haven't actually been trying to do anything dodgy licence-wise.
However, every time I have to call because the automatic route has failed I get worried, I feel I have to plan my explanation / defence of my actions, and (see above) I don't think I'm doing anything I shouldn't be able to. And then I start to think, maybe I should be using a Free OS for this job... (and I shouldn't have to think that - if I am not doing anything wrong, surely the automatic route should just work).
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @12:22PM
OEM activation. Bit more to it than the marker in the BIOS (do a search for SLIC table) - you also need an MS-signed OEM certificate installed in the OS for the auto-activation to work this way. So of course, changing the motherboard breaks activation since you changed or lost one part. Unless you know how to and have the tools to add the correct marker to the new motherboard's BIOS, or it's already present in the new BIOS, plus you have a matching OEM certificate, you need to activate via another method or use a different licence. There are tools to extract the certificate part from existing working machines.
For Win7, there is no online part of the OEM activation, so as long as you have both the BIOS markers and the certificate matching, and use an OEM licence key in Windows for whichever edition you feel like using, it will activate regardless of hardware config. For virtual machines, the BIOS marker injection is easily done for some hypervisors like Xen or Virtualbox, so means unlimited activated Win7 copies in these environments. I'd expect KVM to be similarly easy. I've also heard it's possible to do this on VMWare/ESX/ESXi, but never done that myself. Also note the OEM licence key you put in Windows is not the same as what you find on stickers stuck to cases - the stickers are NOT OEM keys.
(Un)fortunately for Win8 and later, yes it all gets tied to hardware config and stored online on MS servers, so the above trick no longer works reliably if at all.
(Score: 3, Funny) by aristarchus on Friday November 17 2017, @08:41PM
It's frojack! More likely than not, he tacked the lappy to the side of a shed, and years later when they moved, it still had crapware on it.
(Score: 1) by ElizabethGreene on Saturday November 18 2017, @03:02AM
Most vendors now offer bloatware free "signature" editions of Windows. Yes, smh, they charge extra for it.
(Score: 2) by jimtheowl on Saturday November 18 2017, @12:10AM
The crapware issue is indeed a well known subsidy, but why do you state it as if you know that it excludes a sole vendor agreement?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @03:50PM (1 child)
I think you're missing at least two other reasons Linux isn't cheaper than Windows at Dell:
1. Dell sells millions of Windows PCs per year, so their internal costs to configure, package, and install a Windows image for each hardware skew on a per-unit basis probably amount to less than a dollar. Since Linux sales are dramatically lower, the the per-unit costs of building and maintaining the install images is probably $20 or even $50. If sales go up maybe that price could come down.
2. I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft negotiated some kind of deal that allowed Dell to sell alternative operating systems provided the sticker price was never lower than the Windows sticker price. It's the kind of thing they did in the past.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Monday November 20 2017, @03:25PM
Your reasoning on #1 is wrong, I'm pretty sure. If this were actually a factor, then the vendor could offer the FreeDOS or barebones option (no OS) for significantly less. But they don't.
As for #2 (which you'll inevitably use to say my line above is wrong), first any such deals should be leaked at some point by a disgruntled employee (that's not something only a few people would know about), and second, how do competing brands compare?
It would be really interesting to get access to a line-item breakdown of costs in a modern laptop, including the crapware and Windows OS.
(Score: 2) by Marand on Sunday November 19 2017, @01:50PM
I see nothing wrong here; you do tend to pay more for a higher-quality product. ;)
Maybe instead of trying to convince people Linux is better because it's free, we should be telling people it's better because it's a better product; if it weren't, OEMs wouldn't be willing to charge a premium over the cost of Windows for it. What you save buying Windows you lose later in maintenance and upkeep. (e.g. virus scanners, unwanted updates, unexpected reboots, random breakage.)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @10:16PM
Didn't RTFA, but based on the summary, it sounds like they are referring to the early netbooks that all ran a Linux distro (Xandros or something? I think it was whatever Lindows became after getting sued). There were a lot of FUD articles at the time about people being upset, mostly pushed by Microsoft which resulted in the extension of XP's lifetime until Windows 7 came out with that 'Starter Edtion' abomination (remember "It is against the EULA to change the desktop background without upgrading to Home" anyone?).
(Score: 2) by edIII on Saturday November 18 2017, @02:04AM (1 child)
Yeah, I'm going to disagree there. Started out with Microsoft on the desktop, moved into Linux on the servers (headless), moved into BSD on the servers (still headless), and finally Linux on the desktop. I've been computing for decades, and love Linux. That said, it's not all that user friendly.
There have been many aha's and gotchas, and quite frankly, some really hairy shit that I thought would require a complete reinstall. Only my "technical mind" saved me, but it was nearly a straight up learning curve on key management for encrypted drives, how you handle with fstab, signed OS, etc. It was a kernel update that completely fucked my fstab and profile in how it was requiring an encrypted volume to load, but no longer had the correct syntax IIRC. I also had help that pointed me in the right direction, and helped me with syntax. Only thing I figured out on my own was key management, and that was after accidentally changing the password, promptly forgetting the new password, and learning the intricacies to the extent I could create new passphrases (8 slots), and regain access. That was only because it didn't get logged off and still had the key loaded in memory.
I've had issues with the windowing manager as well and needed to change the compositor. I'm pretty sure a technical mind is required just to understand the previous sentence, and I still don't entirely understand how the windowing manager works yet. Until maybe six months ago, I never used a windowing manager other than Microsoft. Only exception was for a little while when I had Ubuntu on an old laptop, but it didn't work well enough for me to use.
I will say it has become smoother than I expected, and is getting better, but a technical mind helps using Linux. It's like a very good custom car, but owning it means you do need to actually know what a distributor is, how to put oil in, etc. Linux is not anywhere near Apple's BSD in terms of ease of use. I hate everything else about them, but their windowing manager for BSD is better and easier than windowing managers in Linux.
I think what you meant was that a professionally installed Linux OS, with set up programs, profiles, cron tabs, etc. can make it be easy for the non-technical people. If you don't have a technical mind though, you're just as beholden to the Geek Squad as any other member of the "unwashed masses". Especially, since the vast majority of all the aforementioned diagnostics and fixes occurred after pressing F1 and getting a shell on tty1. Pretty sure a technical mind is required to understand how to send KILL/TERM/HUP to a process too, and I have to do that more often than I like.
If a technical mind were really not required, I think Linux would be at least half as successful as Apple by now, at least in terms of desktop presence.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 2) by jimtheowl on Saturday November 18 2017, @09:36AM
By non technical people, I had in mind your friends and family that ask you for help whenever they need to reinstall Windows, or buy a new machine because it is "too old", as if it depended on some kind of internal gears that wore down as the machine got 'obsolete'. Most can get by using a browser to get on Facebook and with LibreOffice to edit their resume. The ones that were complaining to DELL were probably trying to install a Windows game, but I got bored with the article before confirming.
As for installing, one can still run into issues with unsupported hardware when installing Linux, but I have not encountered that in quite a few years. Unless you run into that scenario, I find that running a fresh Linux install is as easy or much easier for the uninitiated as there is no hunting for device drivers on the manufacturer's web site, or worse, digging out and identify original CDs that came with the machine, followed by multiple reboots.
I'm a BSD user myself and I would not trust Linux for a server environment unless I had paid support to take care of it for me, but every time I have put Linux on a machine outside of work, I have never had to support that machine again.
As for Apple, they control both the software and the hardware, which is why it gets much easier to make sure that everything works as intended. I think adopting BSD was the best decision they ever made. I don't use their products myself, but when I had to buy an entire system for someone else, that is what I bought just to make sure that I woudn't have to provide support.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by crafoo on Friday November 17 2017, @05:56PM (8 children)
Depends on what you mean by technical work. Information Technology - yeah, sure. I would use Linux or BSD. But probably BSD.
CAD, CAM, FMEA, optical sims, ... any # of 1000s of niche simulation and optimization tools - Windows. Linux isn't even seriously considered.
Numpy/scipy etc make scientific model prototyping viable on Linux. Custom command line tools makes collecting the large datasets more convenient than Windows. Most people use Mac or Windows anyway though.
Linux fills the IT niche well. It's still a niche. It doesn't generalize to 99% of the other technical or scientific fields.
(Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Friday November 17 2017, @06:38PM (1 child)
Ahem. I think most scientists use Mac these days, seen as best of "usability/compatibility" and "can run a compiler/etc". I have seen some folks run windows desktop, do real work on a cluster and interface via e.g. putty.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @09:04AM
True story: There's a Physics Department out there who were seriously into Grid Computing [wikipedia.org] who forced their users into running Windows Desktops, whilst they ran (was Hummingbird, is now OpenText) Exceed (Yes, full XDM sessions) to access a bunch of Linux/Unix servers to then run their code.
So, here's how their typical user spent their day.
User comes in in morning, fires up desktop, fires up Exceed, logs into Unix server, spends all day there, logs out of server, shuts down PC.
In essence, the PC was a bloated Xterm with added security holes for fun (think: insecure SQL Server running on internet visible machine thanks to inept admin decision to install software without locking shit down, person with domain admin rights logs in to compromised machine...you do the rest of the math)
The Irony of a bunch of supposed Grid advocates not using their 1200+ desktops as part of any sort of distributed computing setup was not lost on a lot of people back then.
Thank the FSM I'm well away from that place, so I've no idea if that's still the SOP...it would not surprise me.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Friday November 17 2017, @06:45PM
When not doing "technical work" I always feel much safer in Linux.
I have less bloatware, I have a reasonable approximation of a sane permissions system, I can easily jail things I distrust.
I refuse to read email on any windows machine, and its rare that I browse the web on windows.
Technical work (whatever that may be) is not necessarily easier on Linux. But just about every activity is safer.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by NewNic on Friday November 17 2017, @09:14PM (2 children)
Try designing integrated circuits. Not possible using Windows. Linux is the only way to go.
lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @12:54AM (1 child)
Out of curiosity what software do you use in linux when doing that.
(Score: 3, Informative) by NewNic on Saturday November 18 2017, @01:14AM
The 3 largest companies in the EDA business are Synopsys, Cadence and Mentor.
They do support Windows for some tasks and FPGA implementation is commonly done under Windows, but for IC design, there are key (and very expensive) parts of the tool set that only run under Linux: specifically RHEL and SuSE. SuSE is only used by one company for EDA work: Intel. Everyone else is on RHEL/CentOS.
lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @11:16PM
[quote] any # of 1000s of niche simulation and optimization tools - Windows. Linux isn't even seriously considered[/quote]
Just as a data point, I work as a FEM engineer at a very large company, and all our workstations run on linux. One other (small) company we're working with uses windows, and the people I work with are jealous of me having linux at my disposal. Many of the (very expensive, proprietary) tools basically work on both windows and linux, but much better on linux.
(Score: 2) by Hawkwind on Sunday November 19 2017, @02:32AM
All I hear about from the local Physics department is Linux. And over in Engineering there's a lot of non-MS stuff going on.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Freeman on Friday November 17 2017, @06:02PM
People who do technical work may like Linux, but that's not a given. I manage some of the IT in the Library I work at. IT sent us an all-in-one to replace a desktop. This was one junky, slow thing, that was excruciating to use Windows on. I installed Linux on it and helped my student worker learn what they needed. Later the thing needed a new HDD due to some physical abuse (I think it was knocked off the desk a time or two.), so IT put windows back on. My student worker asked for Linux to be put back on the thing. People, like what works. The problem, is that they've never had experience with anything other than X default choice. Typically they learned to use Windows, sometimes Apple, but rarely have they even heard of Linux.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Friday November 17 2017, @06:04PM (7 children)
When are they going to bring back the nice keyboards they used to have on the E6x00-E6x30 series Latitude laptops, before they jumped on this idiotic "island keyboard" craze that all the laptop makers have joined in their quest to copy Apple?
(Score: 2) by meustrus on Friday November 17 2017, @07:42PM (3 children)
I don't know what you're talking about. Every laptop keyboard I've used that isn't the Apple-style chiclet was terrible. I would make so many typing mistakes due to poor feedback and inadequate distance between keys. The chiclet isn't perfect, but it's better than anything else that fits in that short a space.
Desktop of course is a different story, and I would take a cheap full-sized dome keyboard over a chiclet keyboard any day. But laptops haven't offered anything close to that experience for as long as they've been common.
If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @08:24PM (1 child)
The old thinkpad keyboards are lovely. Not as nice as a good mechanical keyboard, but still very nice to type on given the reduced thickness required for a laptop keyboard.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Sunday November 19 2017, @12:16PM
Recalling Stallman's improvements on his XO [imgur.com]
Tactile feedback is more pleasant on thinkpad but also old acers or the dells or the toshibas the powerbooks, than chiclets I tried (hp, but I see no big differences), because the upper and lower edges are shaped differently and because of the slight concavity which lets you instinctively adjust to the correct position. On the chiclet you instinctively watch to check your position.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 1) by toddestan on Saturday November 18 2017, @01:16AM
Not only are the chiclet-style keys annoying to use, but the Apple ones (completely flat tops with little travel) are the worst of the bunch.
The best keyboards are the classic Thinkpad keyboards, though honestly the ones on the older Dell Latitudes mentioned by the GP are almost as good.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Friday November 17 2017, @08:08PM (2 children)
As soon as Apple has the Courage to bring good keyboards back, the rest of the industry will sheepishly follow.
Given the Slim Laptop Without Ports craze, I'd say it won't happen anytime soon.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Monday November 20 2017, @03:46PM (1 child)
Well Apple recently put out new laptops with a touch panel in place of the function keys.
My prediction is that their next move for keyboards will be to replace the whole keyboard with a touch panel. This way, it'll be perfectly flat, the keys can reconfigure themselves depending on what you're doing, it can be sealed against spills, and it'll look totally sleek and futuristic. Of course, it'll totally suck to type on, but Apple users won't notice that; they're perfectly happy to type on an iPad screen after all.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Monday November 20 2017, @05:27PM
https://www.theonion.com/apple-introduces-revolutionary-new-laptop-with-no-keybo-1819594761 [theonion.com]
(Score: 5, Informative) by frojack on Friday November 17 2017, @06:23PM
Seriously? Juggernaut?
They STILL hide their Linux models, the still sell very few in comparison to windows, and they still act like you are from Mars if you ask for tech support.
Even their XPS line, which was their Linux breed only hints at linux availability with pictures of penguins. You can only select Windows 10. You gotta dig to find the linux models.
They are slightly more forthcoming with availability of drivers (but they seldom maintain them).
Mostly the linux models amount to Dell choosing components where there is community supported drivers (good for them - but no real support from Dell).
I've probably installed 10 or 15 Dell rack mount servers that came with linux installed over the years. I then learned to just buy them with freeDOS (because of their stupid agreement with microsoft to never sell a machine without an operating system). Why? Because I could never trust THEIR installation. I never found any instance of Dell malware on the machines, (charitably excluding dell "service and support" portals). Rather their linux installs were just full of brain dead stupid installation choices. Services running and ports open for no reason.
I was going to have to fetch my own install media and do it over anyway, why buy anything pre-installed from dell.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @06:44PM (7 children)
I just got a Dell "black friday sale" paper catalog in the mail, maybe a dozen pages. In among the various systems and accessories there are three machines that ship with Windows 7 (Windows 10 free upgrade included).
The first time I saw this was ~4 months ago, same kind of small paper catalog -- most computers were Win 10, but there was one that came with Win 7. Since they went from 1 to 3 systems over the last 4 months, maybe there is still good demand for Win 7?
One small engineering company I work with is still Win 7 across hundreds of technical workstations. They have no plans to move to Win10, although the IT department is getting nervous...
(Score: 3, Informative) by frojack on Friday November 17 2017, @06:48PM (6 children)
I hope they know enough to remind the IT department who they work for.
Most of those guys are Microsoft zombies all the way down. If they are getting nervous its just a sign of how shallow their skillset is.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @07:23PM (5 children)
All depends on the company.
Some companies (names excluded to protect the guilty) of which I am personally aware are pushing hard to drop Windows in favour of OSX and/or Linux. Not because they like Apple particularly, but because the Windows 10 model is just not good news.
Pay Microsoft $Money on the regular just to keep a thing running, accept whatever updates Microsoft decides are a good idea on any given Tuesday, and hope that your machine will be available for use as opposed to spending ages in update hell when you need to do a presentation?
Yeah, no. All the nope. You only have to watch one poor sap sweating bullets while trying to run his salespitch off an iPad because his laptop is talking to its electronic gods, to realise what a stupid plan this is.
Now, I know, some Microsoft apologist is going to explain how if you're in solid with the Powers that Be, and you're a huge corporation with all sorts of techies, you can take control of that (except when you can't), and that's great if your market cap is a few billion. I'm talking about SMEs. The ones who want to get bigger.
You know, Microsoft's future big revenue stream. Or not.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @01:01AM (2 children)
That right there. You can change it till you cant. After the hell I've seen with my customers Windows 10 rollouts and update when they want to ignoring all of the gpos, Microsoft can go to hell. I'm actually back in school right now buffing up Linux skills cause I'm hoping to move out of the Windows world.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @01:22AM (1 child)
School isn't bad.
But I can save you a lot of time, and get you off the ground faster.
First, get a copy of the UNIX System Administration Handbook. It's good stuff. Whichever edition gives you wood, I don't care.
Next, get a copy of the O'Reilly book on SED and AWK. Sounds stupid? Isn't stupid. Similarly, get one on BASH.
If you have SED, AWK, BASH, and you're not intimidated by the fact that UNIX uses a command line, you're on the way to being a rock star.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @03:06AM
Good advice. School is free though though so I might as well use it.
I will look into those books. I've already started dabbling. Typing this from Opensuse right now.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @09:22AM (1 child)
I wish you'd name names..
some of us are about to have Win10 imposed on us, despite our warnings, as the PHB has been told by $expensive_external_consultant 'Industry is standardising on it'
(What fscking 'Industry'? and 'where'? are the first two questions we then asked....as you can guess, we're still waiting for a response..)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @03:50PM
Yes, but I still want to have a job tomorrow.
Sucks, dunnit?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @06:53PM (4 children)
i'm glad they are doing this but if they were some sort of visionaries they would have had at least a small commitment to linux back in 2000, not 20 freaking 12! a company like them could have partnered with canonical and built transparent windows app support and super stability with security updates in an ubuntu/dell enterprise edition. you'd have to not screw it all up though. also, while i'd love to buy from a company with a certain basic amount of respect for Gnu+Linox, i'm not going to be victimized to do it. namely, i'm not paying a high price for questionable hardware design and quality and a shitty warranty. make tough hardware and back it with a long warranty and maybe i'll pay a higher price. otherwise i'll be forced to buy from whomever has the longest lasting hardware at any given time. i can burn an iso if i have to, after all.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Friday November 17 2017, @08:47PM (3 children)
I know of some still solidly running Dell PowerEdge 2450, 2550, and 2650s which were bought new in the early 2000s. It seems that some of them were purchased with Linux installed. Some of the original manuals and CDs are still around and are all about Linux. The Dell website still has the support docs and downloads for several Linux distros, and many other OEes: http://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/19/product-support/product/poweredge-2450/drivers [dell.com] Just click on the "Operating system :" combo box and you'll see.
(Score: 1) by toddestan on Saturday November 18 2017, @01:42AM (2 children)
I'm kind of surprised by that. While the Optiplexes back then (despite their propriety form factors) were solid machines that ran Linux like a champ, Dell's server stuff back then was just.... weird. Installing Linux on one was a challenge, constantly running into various incompatibilities and quirks, and even once installed it never seemed quite right. Even installing Windows on those machines seemed like voodoo, with having to enable special "OS Install" modes in the BIOS and having to turn on memory limits.
I was pretty happy to see that stuff go away years ago.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @09:38AM (1 child)
Indeed, ran Linux on a fair number of Optiplexes without issue (one was acting as a server, uptime before it was unceremoniously retired due to 'politics' was in the order of 390 days). As people do have the rather bad habit of giving me lots of 'obsolete' equipment to repurpose/dispose of, I'll quite happily take Dell desktop machines off their hands, I'm currently running Linux on the Inspiron I'm typing this on and there's an old Dimension 5150 sitting on the same KVM switch which quite happily runs Linux without issues, Old Dell servers, however, I stopped taking a few years back, far too many weird issues with them, they were starting to clutter up the already cluttered computer corner of the 'Junk Room'.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Saturday November 18 2017, @06:40PM
I've had absolutely NO problems running mostly CentOS. Tried a few others, slightly pressured into running CentOS, okay, I've adapted.
Maybe I'm more tenacious and like the challenge? Maybe I'm lucky? It's a very low-budget operation. If I tried to requisition newer fancy stuff, they'd move to major hosting provider and I'd lose the fun and income, so I keep things humming.
CentOS 4 (before me), 5, and 6 running on PowerEdge 2450, 2550, 2650, and PE 600SC (tower case- P4, has ServerWorks chipset, 3 IDE ports, Adaptec SCSI, etc.) I know some of the 2450s were originally bought new with RedHat 4 and 5 (the older series- 2000-2004).
So what "weird issues" do you remember having??
(Score: 2) by lentilla on Friday November 17 2017, @07:51PM (13 children)
There will be much discussion here about the crapware that comes pre-installed with Windows on a brand-new computer, so maybe now is a good time to ask a question:
"How exactly does one install a fresh copy of Windows (without all the crapware) on a brand-new PC?"
One presumably has the licence to run Windows, so after you bring the computer home from the store and wipe the hard disk, how do you re-install the operating system that you paid for back on the computer?
(Score: 4, Informative) by John Bresnahan on Friday November 17 2017, @08:05PM (2 children)
This should provide a good start:
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-windows_install-winpc/how-to-download-official-windows-10-iso-files/35cde7ec-5b6f-481c-a02d-dadf465df326?auth=1 [microsoft.com]
You can freely download an ISO file and either burn it to a DVD (I think it requires dual-layer), or load it in a USB thumbdrive (either use an available GUI utility, or get to a Administrator command window and perform the several steps manually). Then, boot from the media you created and follow the simple instructions.
If your computer came with a copy of Windows 10, then the fresh install should automatically activate.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @08:51PM
If it does, dispatch with either a large caliber handgun or large sledge. Then turn the selected tool upon yourself. If the install does not activate, it is your lucky day. Go forth, and sin no more. Install a real operating system.
(Score: 2) by Teckla on Saturday November 18 2017, @03:09PM
I installed a fresh copy of Windows 10 a week ago. (Upgraded to a larger SSD.) Burned the Windows 10 ISO to a standard DVD-R disc.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @08:10PM (9 children)
First, identify all the vendors for all the hardware in the computer.
OK, next go to all the vendors of all the hardware in the computer, and download all their drivers for all the hardware in the computer.
Third, save all the drivers for all the hardware in the computer on separate media.
Fourth, go buy a retail copy of the OS of your choice (Hahahaaa, who are we kidding, it's the OS of Microsoft's choice, as per their update rules).
Fifth, install that OS, and with it all the drivers for all the hardware in the computer that you bought.
Sixth, activate your OS with Microsoft (because important reasons).
Oh, also don't install any of the vendor crapware on your system. Even though it comes with the drivers. Duh!
See? Windows! It's easy and convenient!
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @08:30PM (4 children)
I don't like Windows, and I recommend installation of a free operating system.
But arguments like this don't help. It is clear that you have not actually done this process, and are just making this shit up.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Grishnakh on Friday November 17 2017, @08:52PM (3 children)
He's not making anything up; that's exactly how it used to be back in the 2000/XP days.
Supposedly it's not as bad now, but I only had to do that back in the XP days so that's the way I remember it.
(Score: 2) by choose another one on Friday November 17 2017, @09:23PM
Not exactly - the fourth step is wrong. Back in the 2000/XP days you could buy a clean "OEM" copy of windows for around 10% of the full retail version price, some made you buy it with hardware (e.g. a cheap mouse) but still way way less than paying for full retail.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 19 2017, @04:44AM (1 child)
GGP could not have been talking about Windows 2000, because windows 2000 and earlier did not have activation.
But even if we're talking about Windows XP GGP's argument is still bullshit because Windows XP is 16 years old -- and we should be comparing it with its contemporaries. Windows installation sucked, but installing any flavour of GNU/Linux in 2001 sucked too, probably moreso. Things really are much improved now.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 19 2017, @12:25PM
when win7 came out, by the time the first windows preinstalled PC recognized the network printer, I had installed successfully installed sidux on other three PCs.
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by ElizabethGreene on Saturday November 18 2017, @03:20AM (3 children)
> First, identify all the vendors for all the hardware in the computer.
...
I haven't had to do this since Windows 7. Today I use the (Free and open source) Microsoft Dvd/USB creation tool to explode the iso on a usb stick, put it in the PC, and boot the USB drive. Pick the OS, pick Clean install, Next, Next, Next, Finish.
Then I click the box for my privacy choices, and I have to make a choice.
If I sign in with my @microsoft.com email (I work for the man.) my machine will automatically join our Azure AD. It will bitlocker the system, push down our VPN profile, and set up my access to the company app store so I can grab Office, etc.
If I sign in with my Xbox account (my @gmail.com email) I'm at a usable desktop. My desktop background shows up automagically, my onedrive works, my bookmarks are in edge. From here I install adblock plus for edge from the Microsoft Store (Yes, that's a thing), sign in to Skype, grab and install my software essentials from my OneDrive.
In the background, while I'm doing the above, the system scampers out to Windows update and pulls down any drivers I'm missing plus the latest cumulative updates. It just works.
Today's Microsoft is not Mr. Gates or Mr. Ballmer's Microsoft. It's different and better.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @03:56PM (2 children)
You're right! This is sooo much better.
Explain to us again the part where you disable the telemetry, firewall off the Microsoft services, download the drivers for the things that you install for your particular needs that aren't included with the ISO, and otherwise get to have a computer where you have some semblance of control? We love that part!
(Score: 1) by ElizabethGreene on Monday November 20 2017, @03:40PM (1 child)
Question on that: Do you have the same concerns about telemetry and privacy for your mobile devices? E.g. an iPhone or Android Phone? If so, how do you handle those?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 20 2017, @06:23PM
I can't really speak for the GP, but I sure do worry about the phone. The options seem to be, if anything, more limited. Generally, I try to buy phones that are campatible with an installable OS (e.g. lineageOS, etc.). This isn't perfect (Apps are an issue, although xprivacy helps and supposedly the newest version of Android has more built-in controls), but a non provider OS is generally better than anything that comes from a provider.
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Friday November 17 2017, @10:34PM (3 children)
My most powerful box runs Linux Mint but I rarely so much as turn it on.
When I got my first paycheck from my current client, I bought a Mac mini. During my homelessness I had an Acer windows laptop but now I never turn it on either.
I'm going to buy a MacBook Pro so I can work at Starbucks. To avoid paying the Apple Tax I'm going to buy a used one. Macs hold their value better than do windows boxen.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @12:55AM (2 children)
WFM. Has for many years.
Most distros come quite able to accomplish all the tasks that most folks do.
When I first stumbled on Puppy Linux, I was amazed that it was small enough that 5 Puppy ISOs would fit on 1 CD.
...yet it still was able to all the usual tasks--out of the box.
This was after I had encountered KNOPPIX, which, again, had an excellent assortment of tools.
...again, out of the box.
.
There was a time over a decade ago when FOSS ECAD [google.com] suites [google.com] were becoming a popular discussion topic in sci.electronics.design|sci.electronics.cad.
The gEDA team had offered Windoze binaries several times, but the mailing list kept getting filled up with idiots who kept asking "How do I run Windoze?" so the guys stopped offering Windoze binaries and only provided source code and a build script for Windoze lusers from that point on.
(Anybody who wasn't a complete nitwit got the app suite installed just fine and their questions were about the fine points of getting things done with the apps.)
Another thing that became available about that time was bootable spins of Linux distros with a vocation-specific set of apps.
Ubuntu Electronics Remix [google.com]
Fedora Electronic Lab [google.com]
Those included the ECAD apps and, again, worked out of the box.
Terry Porter used to put up links to images of his latest PCBs, which were making him good money, all done with FOSS tools.
"not ready"??
You're putting me on.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Saturday November 18 2017, @12:57AM (1 child)
Mac OS X drivers possess exquisite beauty.
Writing Linux drivers makes hair grow on the palms of my hands.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @07:31AM
Clearly, you're holding it wrong. 8-)
...and the Linux Driver Project has hundreds of volunteers waiting in line, [googleusercontent.com] (orig) [lwn.net] ready to make hardware Linux-compatible.
I'm sure they're all scratching their heads WRT your statement.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by el_oscuro on Saturday November 18 2017, @05:49AM
I got my first Dell desktop in 2006, and an Inspiron 1525 laptop in 2007. Both came with Ubuntu pre installed. The desktop died a few years go, but I still have the laptop with 16.04 Mate edition. It's kind of on it legs now but it still works.
SoylentNews is Bacon! [nueskes.com]
(Score: 2) by fliptop on Saturday November 18 2017, @04:18PM
I miss that guy.
Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
(Score: 2) by Absolutely.Geek on Sunday November 19 2017, @09:12PM
I tried to but an XPS 13 Dev edition in New Zealand....nope; it isn't available not nor has it ever been.
The only dell linux options for NZ are the precision line of workstation laptops and these are not always available on the NZ website.
Don't trust the police or the government - Shihad: My mind's sedate.