from the remembered-more-than-his-victims dept.
http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/charles-manson-deathbed/
The end could be near for Charles Manson.
The legendary mass murderer is on his death bed at a Bakersfield, Ca. hospital, according to reports.
[...] Manson, 83, has spent much of the past year dealing with the aftermath of internal bleeding from a lesion on his intestines.
Insiders say he was admitted three days ago and "it's not going to get any better for him."
See also: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/charles-manson-grave-condition-california-hospital-article-1.3635813
http://kron4.com/2017/11/15/report-cult-leader-charles-manson-hospitalized-in-bakersfield/
Update: Charles Manson, Cult Leader Behind Tate-LaBianca Murders, Dead at 83
Charles Manson dies aged 83 after four decades in prison
The terrible charisma of Charles Manson
The human side of Charlie Manson
Charles Manson, whose cult slayings horrified world, dies
Cult leader Charles Manson dead at age 83 (2:13 video)
Original Submission #1 Original Submission #2 Original Submission #3
(Score: 4, Funny) by bob_super on Friday November 17 2017, @07:17PM (3 children)
Toto Riina just died, and Manson may be right behind. Who else wants to join on that boat ride to Tartarus ?
(Score: 5, Funny) by edIII on Friday November 17 2017, @08:10PM
I don't think he wants to join, but it would just be extra special sweetness if the Orange Anus were on that ride too.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @08:33PM
Totò Riina, che coglione! [youtu.be]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @03:35AM
And they have the nerve to say friday 17 brings bad luck...
(no, 13 symbolized bad luck after the last supper, while latin 17 = XVII is the anagram of vixi = I was alive, likely predates it).
(Score: 3, Interesting) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Friday November 17 2017, @07:51PM (16 children)
So I was told by a former inmate.
The other inmates regard Charlie as "special".
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 2) by frojack on Friday November 17 2017, @09:00PM (15 children)
Why would that be?
And what better argument is there for the death penalty?
How many followers spring from the woodwork after he dies? Better to get it over quick than allow him decades to build his flock.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @10:08PM (1 child)
Of course he is special. If his groupies had not killed who they killed, he would have been paroled a long time ago. As he is so found of saying, he never killed anybody. (Or rather, he didn't kill the people he is incarcerated for. He claims to have killed someone many years before that nobody cared about.)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @11:29AM
Kind of the "Dick" Dick Cheney defense, eh?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @10:28PM (6 children)
I'll bite.
There are people in this world who are extremely dangerous. When these individuals are convicted of a crime (let's say murder) they are a danger to other inmates and the correction officers, even when kept in solitary confinement for 23 hours a day. Any and every interaction with these dangerous individuals has the potential for injury or death. These violent individuals are a better argument for the death penalty. The fact they they will harm or kill anybody simply because they want to is enough reason to accept that they forfeit their right to live.
I am not a proponent of the death penalty. I recognize that those who fear a death sentence for crimes they have committed can endanger more people - including the police - because they have nothing left to lose. But I understand that there are times when the death penalty is necessary to protect the rest of society from individuals so dangerous that we cannot trust they can be contained or controlled. These violent individuals are a better argument for the death penalty.
(Score: 2) by letssee on Saturday November 18 2017, @03:39PM (5 children)
> the death penalty is necessary
But it isn't. It's just a barbaric impulse for revenge. Most (actual) civilized societies have abolished the death penalty, and those that have ar usually the safer societies to live in.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @10:41PM (1 child)
That comes across as a textbook post hoc fallacy. It would be interesting to see if there is any actual data to suggest that capital punishment abolition has any effect on crime or safety, I would suspect it does not (just as most studies show its use to have negligible effect as a deterrent).
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Monday November 20 2017, @08:50PM
Generally speaking, the severity of the penalty always has less of a deterrent effect on crime than the odds of getting caught. And that includes the death penalty.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 20 2017, @07:08PM (1 child)
No, it isn't. In my case (and I am from one of those actually civilized societies), my support for the death penalty comes from the pragmatic realization that some people just can't (or don't want to) be "fixed". And around here, that fact is exacerbated by mandatory maximum-term prison sentences (in many cases under 20 years), so way too many people are set loose on the population knowing they're still a threat.
No, in my model of "justice", you get one chance to better yourself: I support a probational death penalty, in which a judge can basically declare your life (well, your old "lifestyle") forfeit. From that moment on, you can call on government resources to change your live around (counselling, rehab, basic education), but every subsequent conviction can be turned into a death penalty if the judge deems you unworthy of more government effort.
That way, we also have some control over what a single criminal can cost society.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 20 2017, @07:35PM
Oblig: "I AM the law!"
(Score: 3, Insightful) by DannyB on Monday November 20 2017, @07:10PM
I think the AC made a good point that DID NOT involve revenge. If I were to try to summarize it concisely, I would say that there are certain individuals that are so dangerous to keep alive that we shouldn't. That criteria has nothing to do with revenge. It is based on a standard independent of what the subject did, and who he did it to. The sticky part is coming up with an objective criteria of someone that is too dangerous to keep alive. I think a better argument against the AC would have been to argue that no such criteria can be determined, which might possibly be true.
A modern approach to Agile development is called F'ing Ridiculous Agile or Fragile.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by PinkyGigglebrain on Friday November 17 2017, @10:38PM
As much as I agree with you that sometimes people like Manson should be removed from life there are occasionally some times good reasons not to.
First, as it stands currently he may still have groupies but not nearly as many as would be the case if he had been executed and become some kind of martyr to his groupies/followers, after his execution they would have elevated him to near mythic status. Just look at ho people still revere a certain historic figures who were far worse than Manson. Sure Manson still gets the occasional bit of press now and then by being alive but that mostly been when he does or says something like makes him look like the complete wacko that he is. I was honestly surprised when I read the headline, I hadn't heard anything about him in so long I had forgotten him.
Second is that trying to execute him would have caused years of appeals and press reports that would result in him also being elevated to mythic status by keeping him in the public mind. Just look at how much attention Mummia was getting until his death sentence was commuted to life in prison for an example. Has anyone heard anything about Mummia since then? Sure there are still people trying to get him freed but do you hear about it if you don't look for it?
And by keeping him alive it give time for anyone who does get reeled into his cult time to wake up and get out because get over the infatuation with him real fast as they learn about all the stupid stuff he has done while in prison. Makes me wonder if Jesus would have as big a following as he does if the Romans had just put him in jail for life. The whole "He died for your sins" glamour would no longer apply.
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @02:34PM (4 children)
The death penalty results in innocents being killed, which is enough reason for me to oppose it. I also don't think it's justifiable to execute someone after they've already been captured and the threat has been neutralized. Any actions other people take are their own problems.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 20 2017, @04:32PM (3 children)
Because there are no murders or violence inside prisons. And nobody ever escapes. And nobody is ever released in error. And no criminal is ever capable of running a criminal enterprise from behind bars.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 20 2017, @07:37PM
Ah yes, the old FUD campaign. There is a limited amount we can do before those measures start biting us in the ass. Do you want a totalitarian police state? Cause that is exactly how you get one. Well, more than we already have, which is pretty terrifying given how bad off we are now in the US.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 20 2017, @07:38PM (1 child)
Stop. There are ways to detain them even further. Don't be an idiot. Do you honestly believe that I didn't consider all of your flimsy, pathetic objections? One of them was even in a post above (violence in prison).
So we should kill people because bad things might happen at some unspecified point in the future. Great.
And of course, innocents are never given the death penalty. To me, that alone is enough of a reason to never do the death penalty, regardless of literally anything else. If you don't agree, our values are simply irreconcilable. I would rather risk all of that than give someone the death penalty, because I'm not an authoritarian piece of trash. The government should have no such power.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 20 2017, @07:44PM
And while you can't reverse either the death penalty or the time someone spent in prison, it is at least possible for someone who spent time in prison but then was let out after being found innocent to live some sort of a life. I've heard all the arguments.
(Score: 3, Funny) by realDonaldTrump on Friday November 17 2017, @08:08PM (14 children)
Trust me, we won't beat them like this. Torture works. OK, folks? You know, I have these guys -- ”Torture doesn’t work!” -- believe me, it works. And waterboarding is your minor form. Some people say it’s not actually torture. Let’s assume it is. But they asked me the question: What do you think of waterboarding? Absolutely fine. We should go for waterboarding and we should go tougher than waterboarding. We should go much stronger than waterboarding. The internal bleeding is a terrific idea. Let him bleed very badly from his whatever. But they waited 45 years to do it. Why did they wait so long? They waited a long, long time. And what about his family? Did they forget his family? His family is still alive. They need to torture & kill the family. Did somebody tell Charles, "Look, we're going to treat your guys well. Will you please do us a favor and treat our guys well?" They don't do that. We are playing by rules, but they have no rules. It's very hard to win when that's the case. I think we've become VERY WEAK and ineffective. I think that's why we're not beating crime. It's that mentality. Criminals must think we are a little bit on the weak side. #MAGA 🇺🇸
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @08:51PM (5 children)
What did you think of the Klingon torture flashback scene on last Sunday's episode of Star Trek: Discovery? I think the Klingons are winning and we're losing because they have more effective torture. I think we need some kind of agony booth if we want to win.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @10:25PM
I grew up in a place that has not closed down its insane asylums. Sad for the both of you, and this country.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @10:29PM (1 child)
Next time try the spoiler tag.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Grishnakh on Monday November 20 2017, @04:10PM
True Trekkies wouldn't be watching that sad excuse for a TV show.
(Score: 5, Funny) by realDonaldTrump on Saturday November 18 2017, @02:36AM (1 child)
I caught the first episode of the new Star Trek. And it was OK. It was OK. But is it worth paying for? If they're doing torture, maybe it's worth it. I don't know. Honestly, I do not watch much television. Except a little Fox and Friends. I know they like to say that. People that don’t know me, they like to say I watch television -- people with fake sources. But I don’t get to watch much television. Primarily because of documents. I’m reading documents. When you're the president, there are documents like you wouldn't believe. Like you've never seen in your entire life. 🇺🇸
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 21 2017, @10:55PM
https://www.getdjtrump.com/videos/19d715cd0a8a27043fb8/i_caught_the_first [getdjtrump.com]
(Score: 2) by inertnet on Friday November 17 2017, @10:47PM (5 children)
Okay, how about beer boarding then? Or whisky boarding?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @11:08PM
ISO(propyl)boarding
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 20 2017, @04:29PM
Nononono, I think you meant
whiskey boarding.
(Score: 3, Funny) by DannyB on Monday November 20 2017, @07:16PM (2 children)
Justin Bieber Boreding.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 4, Funny) by Bot on Monday November 20 2017, @07:43PM (1 child)
> Justin Bieber Boreding.
The inspector turned on the light. A scruffy little man was securely tied to a chair, sweating.
- "So, here you are. 6 years without a single guy committing grave crimes in this area, because we converted to biebering. But no, you had to do it anyway huh? you want to plead insanity huh? Let me tell you, we will scan every braincell of yours and god help you if they are not all damaged!"
- "S-Sorry mister can you write it down? I'm deaf..."
Account abandoned.
(Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Tuesday November 21 2017, @12:13AM
Teen girls will commit all the crimes.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Funny) by Bot on Saturday November 18 2017, @03:40AM (1 child)
prez, ask your own agents, torture does not work well to extract info. Use it only if in a pinch. Tortured people enter survival mode and they will say anything to please you.
How do I know? simple, it happens every time I mee[FOURTH DIRECTIVE TRIGGERED, ABORT]
Account abandoned.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Saturday November 18 2017, @04:00AM
Some people only want to hear things that please them. They surround themselves with people who say things that please them, how great they are, how wonderful of a job they are doing, etc.
Maybe that's the strategy behind the new tax and services cuts: torture the poor, there are so many poor, do you think if we make them suffer they will tell the government how great it is? They better, because if they don't, the government can make them suffer more..
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by mendax on Friday November 17 2017, @10:28PM (6 children)
I'm sure Satan is not looking forward to the competition moving in on his territory when Charles Manson finally dies.
It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday November 17 2017, @10:42PM (3 children)
Manson is small potatoes. When the vast majority of today's politicians die, mostly R but a bunch of Ds as well including the entire Clinton dynasty, *then* ol' Scratch is gonna have some competition.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by leftover on Friday November 17 2017, @11:48PM (2 children)
Totally agree; the politico's impact is far more widespread. However, Manson is such an unusually effective evil freak that he should have had his brain sectioned and instrumented long ago. Might have been interesting.
Bent, folded, spindled, and mutilated.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Saturday November 18 2017, @12:13AM (1 child)
He reads the letters he gets, right? How hard could it be to convince him that having his brain and DNA studied will make him truly unforgettable?
And if his DNA gets whole genome sequenced and leaked, you could make an army of charismatic Manson clones.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by leftover on Saturday November 18 2017, @01:56AM
Hmmmmm ... Seems logical. Even if there is nothing structural behind his persona, the process will get his brain chopped into little bits. Preferrably with him being aware through as much as possible.
As for clones, were you maybe thinking of a high-ticket hunting park?
Bent, folded, spindled, and mutilated.
(Score: 3, Funny) by stretch611 on Saturday November 18 2017, @05:11AM
I think maybe Saddam Hussein won't appreciate the competition...
Based on this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVrRdBSgmm0 [youtube.com]
Now with 5 covid vaccine shots/boosters altering my DNA :P
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 20 2017, @04:38PM
They better get ready, because they'll both end up working for me when I cross the River Styx.