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posted by martyb on Friday November 17 2017, @10:54PM   Printer-friendly
from the engineers-need-artists-to-keep-them-honest dept.

A very clever (imo) artist has developed a simple trap for autonomous cars --
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thuN2HD6m2s
Less than 90 seconds of video, no sound. If you get it right away it's only a minute.

Oh, and if you didn't get the title, there is this,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heffalump


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  • (Score: 1) by insanumingenium on Friday November 17 2017, @11:08PM (5 children)

    by insanumingenium (4824) on Friday November 17 2017, @11:08PM (#598447) Journal

    Something tells me honey doesn't attract autonomous cars.

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @11:19PM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @11:19PM (#598455)

      Ant pheromones are a better metaphor than honey in this instance actually. Ants are dumb and do what pheromone trails tell them to do.

      • (Score: 1) by insanumingenium on Friday November 17 2017, @11:27PM (3 children)

        by insanumingenium (4824) on Friday November 17 2017, @11:27PM (#598456) Journal

        Didn't they use honey to bait the heffalump trap?

        • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @11:35PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @11:35PM (#598461)

          Doesn't the car in the video react in a way that shows it is stupider than an ant?

          • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @03:48AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @03:48AM (#598556)

            I don't think it's an actual autonomous car in the video. A steering wheel is visible, but sensors are not.

          • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @08:50AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @08:50AM (#598602)
            the video and click bait title is used to trap viewers for views.
  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @11:08PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @11:08PM (#598448)

    Less than 90 seconds of video, no sound. If you get it right away it's only a minute.

    I knew exactly what would happen 10 seconds in.

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @01:28AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @01:28AM (#598490)

      I'm not certain, but maybe they meant that after 60s the car just sits and does nothing therefore you can stop watching? Though the extra 30s does nothing to add comprehension anyway.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by leftover on Friday November 17 2017, @11:10PM (3 children)

    by leftover (2448) on Friday November 17 2017, @11:10PM (#598449)

    This could either be funny or very much not. Software will need to recognize this situation just because it is so easy to do. Two sets of lines on a single-lane road would make quite a trap.

    --
    Bent, folded, spindled, and mutilated.
    • (Score: 2) by PinkyGigglebrain on Saturday November 18 2017, @02:27AM (2 children)

      by PinkyGigglebrain (4458) on Saturday November 18 2017, @02:27AM (#598510)

      it would also work on the entrance(s) to a parking lot, or across just about any road for that matter.

      I wonder how long before we start seeing these traps in the "wild". I give it about a week, probably less.

      --
      "Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @03:30AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @03:30AM (#598542)

        The video was "Published on Aug 22, 2017."

        • (Score: 2) by kazzie on Monday November 20 2017, @02:24PM

          by kazzie (5309) Subscriber Badge on Monday November 20 2017, @02:24PM (#599239)

          You mean the car's still stuck there?

  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @11:11PM (11 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @11:11PM (#598450)

    The way they've been hyping this trash, I thought it was capable of mapping its surroundings in a slightly more advanced way than this. From this video, it looks like it only operates according to the most rudimentary, naively constructed set of rules.

    I mean, is this care like an undergraduate's Senior project or something? If not, I have zero confidence that I'll live to see autonomous cars in practical action.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @11:15PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @11:15PM (#598453)

      Self-driving cars are a long way from Culture Minds. In the Culture novels, an AI Core doesn't know when it's being trolled either.

    • (Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @11:33PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @11:33PM (#598459)

      Truly the young trendy AI gurus who code autonomous cars are millionaires who are better than you. Never forget that.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @01:33AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @01:33AM (#598491)

        Alright boys we found the motherlode, time to open the salt mine!

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by tftp on Saturday November 18 2017, @01:08AM (5 children)

      by tftp (806) on Saturday November 18 2017, @01:08AM (#598479) Homepage

      The real set of rules by which the world operates is extremely complex. A human child, a construct that is considerably more complex than a computer, needs about 20 years to learn the basics.

      A robot car, even one with AI, can be stopped by simply walking in front of it on a narrow road. Another guy behind, and hijacking is complete. What will a human do in this case? Many will just floor it. They know that twelve is better than six. Will we teach an AI that homicide is sometimes OK? When? Humans struggle with this problem for centuries. Worse still, humans are responsible for their actions and won't be doing GTA just for fun, otherwise they will be imprisoned or executed. But how can you punish a robot?

      Given that, a lesser than AI control structure will be totally helpless. Modern cars apparently understand and obey hand signs that police sometimes uses. Do you think the car will realize that there is no police car around? On freeways autonomous trucks will be boxed in, stopped and cargo reloaded before police comes. Those robot cars can be fooled by many ways.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @02:41AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @02:41AM (#598516)

        A robot car, even one with AI, can be stopped by simply walking in front of it on a narrow road. Another guy behind, and hijacking is complete. What will a human do in this case? Many will just floor it. They know that twelve is better than six.

        You lost me. What does comparing 12 and six have to do with a carjacking?

        If the 12 vs 6 thing is a non sequitur and is meant to stand on its own, its lack of context is also confusing. Twelve what is better than six? Cookies? Kisses? Kicks in the nads? Lashes? Minutes standing naked in boiling/freezing temperatures?

        • (Score: 5, Informative) by Farkus888 on Saturday November 18 2017, @02:47AM

          by Farkus888 (5159) on Saturday November 18 2017, @02:47AM (#598520)

          It is a play on the line "it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6". 12 being jurors and 6 being the number of people carrying a casket.

      • (Score: 2) by darkfeline on Saturday November 18 2017, @05:39AM (2 children)

        by darkfeline (1030) on Saturday November 18 2017, @05:39AM (#598582) Homepage

        What will a human do in this case? Many will just floor it.

        So you're saying a human will choose homicide when faced with an ambiguous situation? You're not helping your case if you're arguing against self-driving cars.

        --
        Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @09:03AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @09:03AM (#598603)
          Not really. A human driver will know that the carjackers would get out of the way of the car e.g. you can floor it to make them move away reflexively, then if necessary brake and swerve and not hit the person. Any injuries sustained in such a scenario would likely be far from fatal.

          They're carjackers not pedestrians looking at their phones.

          I haven't seen captchas from Google asking me to tell the difference between carjackers, pranksters or inattentive pedestrians yet. So I doubt their cars will handle such scenarios well ;).

          Most current AIs are still far far behind in many ways. Compare the mistakes they make vs the mistakes "dumb animals" make. The mistakes AIs make show how little they actually understand the world in practical ways compared to animals.

          Might still be enough for some purposes but don't be fooled into thinking they actually are that advanced.
        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by sjames on Saturday November 18 2017, @11:18AM

          by sjames (2882) on Saturday November 18 2017, @11:18AM (#598627) Journal

          That depends on the motive of the two people trapping the car. If their intent is to harm the passengers, taking a run at them might well be justified.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by requerdanos on Saturday November 18 2017, @02:07AM

      by requerdanos (5997) Subscriber Badge on Saturday November 18 2017, @02:07AM (#598505) Journal

      is [this car] like an undergraduate's Senior project or something? If not, I have zero confidence that I'll live to see autonomous cars in practical action.

      I have had near-zero confidence that we'll have self-driving cars anytime soon for *years*, for the reason that tftp phrases so eloquently elsewhere in the thread...

      The [rules] by which the world operates [are] extremely complex. A human child, a construct that is considerably more complex than a computer, needs about 20 years to learn the basics.

      But complex rules and my lack of confidence don't seem to be slowing the self-driving-car people down much at all.

    • (Score: 1) by toddestan on Saturday November 18 2017, @02:10AM

      by toddestan (4982) on Saturday November 18 2017, @02:10AM (#598506)

      While I certainly agree that autonomous cars are overhyped, I'm pretty sure this a joke and the vehicle in the video is a just a standard human-driven model.

  • (Score: 5, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @11:11PM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2017, @11:11PM (#598452)

    In Grand Theft Auto V when AI car drivers get stuck somewhere they progressively get more and more aggressive until they eventually drive forwards and backwards at full throttle smashing into everything around them until the car explodes or they are free.

    • (Score: 2) by JNCF on Saturday November 18 2017, @12:04AM (2 children)

      by JNCF (4317) on Saturday November 18 2017, @12:04AM (#598467) Journal

      You're right, we should totally implement that IRL; it's the best solution. Quick, turn on the Musky-Signal!

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @12:17AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @12:17AM (#598471)

        You should try the new Gran Turismo PS4 game. Still cheatable if you know how.

        • (Score: 2) by Knowledge Troll on Saturday November 18 2017, @01:15AM

          by Knowledge Troll (5948) on Saturday November 18 2017, @01:15AM (#598484) Homepage Journal

          You should try the new Gran Turismo PS4 game. Still cheatable if you know how.

          I've been playing it - how does this cheating you speak of work?

  • (Score: 4, Disagree) by MostCynical on Saturday November 18 2017, @01:13AM (4 children)

    by MostCynical (2589) on Saturday November 18 2017, @01:13AM (#598482) Journal

    this worked with one car.

    Was the car hacked?

    Did they take many attempts to find the right approach angle?

    Does it work with any other cars (different car of same model, different maker..)

    Does it work twice with the same car?

     

    --
    "I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @02:33AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @02:33AM (#598512)

      Is it even an autonomous car. We're told that it's an autonomous car, but it looks like a regular car that's been driven into the middle of a circle. I see no particular reason for an autonomous car to have pulled over there and then driven straight for the specific set of lines that make no logical sense in a traffic context.

    • (Score: 2) by captain normal on Saturday November 18 2017, @03:49AM (2 children)

      by captain normal (2205) on Saturday November 18 2017, @03:49AM (#598557)
      --
      When life isn't going right, go left.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @03:55AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @03:55AM (#598562)

        Has anyone converted this list of rules into a decision tree or other machine-usable form?
        Seems like this must have been done by all the auto-drive car developers.

      • (Score: 4, Informative) by captain normal on Saturday November 18 2017, @03:58AM

        by captain normal (2205) on Saturday November 18 2017, @03:58AM (#598564)

        3---2---1----do you get it yet? All North and Central America and the countries I've driven in in South East Asia You may cross a dashed line in your lane, but cannot cross a solid line oin your lane.

        --
        When life isn't going right, go left.
  • (Score: 4, Funny) by CZB on Saturday November 18 2017, @01:22AM (2 children)

    by CZB (6457) on Saturday November 18 2017, @01:22AM (#598487)

    I thought this said "tarp for autonomous cars", and was excited about the idea of cars that cover themselves with a tarp when parked.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @03:48AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @03:48AM (#598555)

      I think the tarp is part of the heffalump trap...

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @09:05AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @09:05AM (#598605)
      It's actually a trap for youtube views.
  • (Score: 4, Touché) by wonkey_monkey on Saturday November 18 2017, @09:26AM (1 child)

    by wonkey_monkey (279) on Saturday November 18 2017, @09:26AM (#598609) Homepage

    Any evidence that this would actually work?

    But I guess "Attention seeking 'artist' paints circle and drives a car into it" doesn't have the same ring to it.

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk
    • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @02:33PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @02:33PM (#598662)

      > "Attention seeking 'artist' paints circle

      That is certainly one interpretation.

      As submitter, I chose a different interpretation, see the "dept." line in tfs.

  • (Score: 4, Funny) by SomeGuy on Saturday November 18 2017, @02:32PM (3 children)

    by SomeGuy (5632) on Saturday November 18 2017, @02:32PM (#598661)

    Can't pull up Youtube right now, so let me guess, they painted a big mural of a tunnel on the side of a cliff and the autonomous Acme car splats in to it like Wile E. Coyote? :)

    Or does it drive on through, only for the trap designer to go "splat" as he tries to follow it? :P

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @02:38PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @02:38PM (#598668)

      Used a bag of salt (or other white powder) to make a temporary white circle in a roadside turnout. It's a double line, the outer is dashed, the inner is solid. Like the double centerline on a 2-lane road where you can pass, but cars coming the other way can't. Once the "autonomous car" gets inside the circle, it sees the solid line on its side, can't get out.

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 19 2017, @05:49AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 19 2017, @05:49AM (#598850)

        Son, you need to think bigger.

        A roundabout would be a perfect trap, now that would be fun to watch, round, and round, and round, until the car battery dies.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 20 2017, @01:16AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 20 2017, @01:16AM (#599088)

          > Son....

          What makes you think I'm a guy?

          (On the internet no one knows you are a dog...)

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