Some of the fastest growing financial technology firms in Wales are at risk of being held back by skills shortages, a leading specialist lawyer has warned.
Cerian Jones said so-called fintech companies have told her they are "chasing fish in the same small pool".
She said those firms not actually trying to fill a recruitment gap "are trying to retain staff so they don't go elsewhere".
Cardiff is facing competition from London and Bristol among other cities.
Ms Jones, a patents attorney and partner at UDL in Cardiff, said: "When I talk to software companies about what their biggest challenge is, nine times out of 10 it's recruitment.
"These are very skilled positions, needing skilled graduates with the right coding and development skills."
She said there was a lure of working in London and firms in south Wales were having to be creative in trying to entice people "in a candidates' market".
Some were finding it difficult, even when offering £60,000 salaries.
There you have it. You can code to make banks richer. In Cardiff.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @08:13PM
Translation: we need out own H1B cheap Indians! Give us some now! A hundred 747s full!
(Score: 5, Interesting) by bzipitidoo on Saturday November 18 2017, @08:39PM (8 children)
The one thing that might really show a shortage of talented candidates is offering more pay. They say they're offering 60,000 Euros (about $70,000) as if that's a big increase over previous offers and a lot of money. If the cost of living in Wales is low, and if that amount is for new graduates with 0 years of experience, then that's pretty good pay. It's still nothing on the 7 figure pay that upper management in finance pays themselves.
Now if they were willing to allow telecommuting, and they begged for workers on tech oriented web forums, then I'd believe there really is a shortage of workers.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @08:53PM
I agree, they could pay more if they want more. My staring pay out of college was 20% higher than that, and they claim this is trying to retain workers? I make double that before stock, bonus and benefits. Its a competitive market. It easy to view your company failing to be profitable enough to hire staff as a staffing challenge, but its really just a struggling business (or the management is hording all the money). Either way I don't really see it as a staffing problem: which ever department is underfunded is going to have a problem, in this case staffing.
(Score: 3, Informative) by bzipitidoo on Saturday November 18 2017, @09:48PM (3 children)
Whoops, that's pounds, not Euros. 60000 pounds is equivalent to about $80000. Not bad, but still not high. A quick online search shows pay is all over the place, maybe 50k or maybe 60k pounds is about average for an experienced software engineer in Britain, depending on which site you believe.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 19 2017, @12:28AM
There... fixed that for ya...
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 19 2017, @04:42PM (1 child)
Says someone who has never been to London. 60k pounds is nothing, everything there is expensive. And remember they say it's for "very skilled positions", so even if London was cheap that salary doesn't cut it. Add bad weather, pakis, etc and no wonder they can't find suckers.
(Score: 3, Informative) by TheRaven on Sunday November 19 2017, @09:04PM
sudo mod me up
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @09:54PM
Mid-level Wall St. investment banker/analysts/trader make well over a million on average. Mid-level computer programmers (engineers, architects, whatever) makes a tiny little fraction of that on average. Even bliuechip IT firms' CEOs make tiny fraction of bank CEOs.
Obviously, what we need is whole lot of H1B visas for finance.
(Score: 3, Informative) by frojack on Sunday November 19 2017, @12:34AM
Well its closer to 80K than 70 at today's rate.
I don't know what average financial systems devs make in Wales but that seems cheap for US market. I was doing way better than that when quit a State Government job 25 years ago in that same general area of expertise.
It all comes down to money. What's the price of decent housing in Wales? The cost of food, cars, travel?
If those things are expensive, then this is a shit wage.
These are supposed to be financial Technology firms. If they can't figure out how to attract talent then why would you buy anything to do with finance from them? Its easy. Reach for your wallet guys.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by crafoo on Sunday November 19 2017, @03:03PM
How valuable is the skill to the company, really? Mid-management certainly makes more than that. Probably the HR drones too. Maybe start paying the people that create value for the company. Is this really about begging for cheap import labor?
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @08:57PM (5 children)
This can't be all that hard. The toughest part will be getting your message to the right people. Oh, and not getting arrested for doing so, since the UK lacks free speech. You need to target people who need safety, vehicles, good schools, and large houses.
If a family has kids, you can carefully suggest that Londonistan isn't suitable for that unless you are truly rich. Showcase affordable good schools, affordable backyards, affordable parking, relative lack of rape, etc.
You can target people who are trying and failing to save up for kids. Many such people are not even poor, because people keep raising their standards as they get more. One always wants to do a bit better, and have the finances nicer for kids, no matter how well one is doing. This is why many people put off having kids until it is too late. An employer can take advantage of this by advertising a nice cost-of-living situation, and of course the employees still won't feel that they are ready to have kids.
Older people and women tend to feel very unsafe on public transportation. Offer free parking. Offer a loaner car to new employees moving from Londonistan and other places where people might not have cars.
Londonistan's mayor actually said that terrorism is "part and parcel" of living in a big city. WTF!!! (since World War II there has been only that one subway gas attack in Tokyo, a really huge city, so this can't be true) Welcome people to safety.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @09:54PM
But, but...Diversity! And equality! Look how beautiful it is!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 18 2017, @11:25PM
Do the invaders also cause homosexuality?
(Score: 1) by realDonaldTrump on Sunday November 19 2017, @01:51AM (2 children)
London Mayor Sadiq Khan is doing an unbelievable job. Bringing radical Islamic, and Islamist, extremists & terrorists to what was one of the world's greatest cities. They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, they're rapists. And Sadiq welcomes them. He says there's "no reason to be alarmed." He says it's "part and parcel of living in a big city." Shocking statements. MSM is working hard to sell!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 19 2017, @05:45AM (1 child)
Some, I assume, are good people.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 19 2017, @07:56AM
Some are.
Some came to London to escape the Islamic nutjobs running rampant in their home countries, some of them being on death lists back home for being 'too western', some having members of their families shot for the same crime..
Some of them had to struggle with the Usual Government Suspects to be allowed to stay in this country, and after all that, only to find the fuckers and their 'idiotologies' that caused them to flee their homelands now following them here, adding insult to injury, these bastards then being welcomed with
at best, the deluded ignorance of the self-same Usual Government Suspects who were so bloody obstructive in their cases following the incompetently and totally misguided ideals behind some sort of inclusionist multicultural agenda
at worst, with open arms by their 'fellow travelers' already ensconced here.
Here's an educational London story for you
I was once told by one Muslim 'watch what you say in front of a.n.other Muslim' when I asked why, the response was 'because he hates you..' bugger me, I thought, I don't think I've ever done anything to annoy him, so I asked 'why does he hate me?, I don't think I've ever...' the Muslim I was speaking to broke in 'no,no,no not you personally, he just hates all you westerners...he'll smile to your face then stab you in the back, fucking Persian...'
Guess which of the two had absolutely no problems getting to stay in the country?
For the record, I'm an atheist, used to be of the militant anti-religious type, but age has mellowed me and I'll now only go into attack-dog mode if they direct their MSF-bothering antics in my direction, so, whilst I might not believe in their religions, I do have friends of quite a large number of different religious persuasions, and four of the best human beings I've ever come across on this dirtball over the past five decades are deeply religious (two Christians, two Muslim),saying that, four of the nastiest POS humans I've ever come across were also deeply religious (Muslim, Jewish, Christian and Buddhist), so I'm not down on any particular single religious group.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by snufu on Saturday November 18 2017, @09:12PM
"I want to pay less than the market value for widgets, so she must be made of wood. Therefore, there must be a widget shortage. Alert the media of the 'widget crisis', demand that widgets drop their prices."
(Score: 5, Informative) by Nuke on Saturday November 18 2017, @11:22PM (12 children)
Much of South Wales (the Newport-Cardiff-Swansea area) is a dump. Forget the romantic image of mountains, wizards and waterfalls : it is, and looks like, ex-coalmining and steelmaking followed by a swathe of failed new-tech industries. Attractive housing is not easy to find and relatively expensive, although there are plenty of ex-mining houses and other shit holes like these :
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/gallery/two-houses-go-up-sale-5903883 [mirror.co.uk]
Culturally it is out on a limb. One of the worse things for parents is that their children are obliged to waste time learning the Welsh language :
http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2015-07-10/exclusive-poll-64-oppose-compulsory-welsh-to-age-16/ [itv.com]
I live there myself BTW.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by frojack on Sunday November 19 2017, @12:42AM (3 children)
I see nothing there that couldn't be fixed with a fresh coat of bulldozer.
The land itself has to be worth that much.
Ok, not move in ready, but still.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 19 2017, @01:48AM
Exactly.
Buy the whole row of the things, bulldoze them, build something better. Whats that a row of, 10 houses? Assume an average price of 10k per, 100k to get the hole block, build your self a nice 200k house with a backyard. 300k, I wish I had that opportunity here.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 19 2017, @04:06AM (1 child)
> fixed with a fresh coat of bulldozer
Before you start, I suggest you investigate the extent of required planning permission. Not sure about that part of Wales, but I'm slightly familiar with SW England, where it might take 10 or 20 years to get demolition and building permits. Glaciers have been known to move faster.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 19 2017, @08:02AM
Move to Scotland, up here, even Listed buildings can be demolished quite easily and quickly, Our local planners make very liberal use of this gambit. [goodreads.com]
And if they get caught out, well, it's amazing how many buildings catch fire up here after planning permission has been refused...
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 19 2017, @06:51AM (4 children)
Would living in London mean you can get all the way through school, including college, without a language? I doubt it.
Welsh is as useful as anything else, which is to say that nothing is useful for a native English speaker. Look at it from an economics perspective, not silly emotion:
Of the adults who are competent in a second language, only 2% of them got there via school instruction. People burn years of precious childhood for nothing, when they could have instead done something of more value. In economics, we call this an "opportunity cost". That time could have gone to sleep, exercise, learning chemistry, learning calculus... or even learning economics.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by bradley13 on Sunday November 19 2017, @09:25AM (3 children)
Learning languages - the problem, of course, is that you usually don't know what language will be useful to you later in life. When I was in school, for example, most people chose Spanish, but German was also on offer. I went the Spanish route, and 20 years later I was working in Germany. Great, wrong pick, but who knew?
"nothing is useful for a native English speaker"
Cluebat, dude. You're the ugly American I keep running into in various countries.
"People burn years of precious childhood for nothing, when they could have instead done something of more value."
Yes, well, lots of school subjects aren't taken seriously, but which ones - that depends on the kid. Some kids figure all those math courses were a waste, but they loved the language courses - and went for careers accordingly. Others blow off the language courses, but love the math. Still others hated languages and math, but maybe went for social studies or science, or music, or...
School is about providing a broad foundation, so that you can function in society. It is also about providing that broad foundation so that you can figure out what you are actually interested in and potentially good at. If anything, the foundation is too small - once upon a time, there were also courses in the trades - a bit of carpentry, a bit of mechanics, a bit of cooking, a bit of sewing. Those courses really need to come back, because those are also (a) important life skills and (b) valid career choices.
Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 19 2017, @04:13PM (1 child)
We had three school terms per year. 'Language' was a compulsory subject for the first two years of high school.
Year 7 - First term we studied French. Studied moderately hard. By the end of term we probably knew a few dozen/hundred words, and enough grammer to ask someone to shut the door or where the toilet was. (year 7 was about age 12)
Second term we switched to German. Found it annoying to be forced to switch and start over. By the end of term we knew the days of the week and could count up to ten, say please and thankyou. Had forgotton most of the French.
Third term was Italian. Totally pissed off by then. Mostly fucked around in class. By the end of term we could count up to ten , say hello and goodbye. Had forgotton all the French and German.
Year 8 Did it all again.
At the end of two years of three hours per week I could count up to ten what in I thought was french, but found out later half the numbers were italian.
Stupid fucking "multicultural" school policy.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 19 2017, @06:00PM
> Stupid fucking "multicultural" school policy.
No, just plain stupid. 15 weeks or so of learning a language? Why even bother? And French and Italian at the same time (essentially)?
There is no way anyone remotely competent at teaching was involved in that decision.
Though I guess the unfortunate truth is that there are all too many teachers that are no good at teaching.
Funnily though, over the years the only teachers I actually remember are the good ones, even though I do remember having quite a few classes with bad teachers...
(Score: 2) by TheRaven on Sunday November 19 2017, @09:11PM
sudo mod me up
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 19 2017, @05:50PM (1 child)
Well, I understand that it's not of as much use to someone living there as to a tourist, but there are really amazing mountains and waterfalls - and beaches actually (though the more in the southwest than Cardiff admittedly). So I hope you only sound like grumpyness made you forget the nice things, because otherwise I'd recommend to take another look with fresh eyes :)
And about languages. Well, you know, in south western Germany, right next to the border, a lot of people feel the same about French as you do about Welsh.
Having learned Swedish (due to living in Sweden) I can say there are sometimes benefits to learning an obscure language, for example you have your own secret language if you ever need to discuss something in front of for example foreign customers!
But the article to my ears says the main problem is that it's incompetently taught so nobody actually even learns anything.
Well, that's the same with any language. Few people learned much in my English class, and besides not making it engaging the teacher had little enough knowledge of the language that in most tests she marked things as wrong that weren't (and I had to look it up in the dictionary and prove her wrong). I'm not sure anyone learned anything in my French classes.
Not once was I introduced to a book I'd actually want to read in any of those classes, that I had to find myself, and a friend of mine learned more English trying to program and reading English help texts/specifications than in class.
So honestly: If as a parent that is your concern... Get a grip on reality, language teaching is almost universally a crapfest, your kids aren't losing out on much (and might gain in other ways).
(Score: 2) by Nuke on Sunday November 19 2017, @10:30PM
Perhaps you missed the part where I said I live in Wales. There are beautiful parts of Wales and I know them well; they are mostly in Mid and North Wales, but I live in a beautiful part of South East Wales. My house is in a forest, not far from several castles, an old abbey and a waterfalI. My location is expensive but I can afford it. But I am within a half-hour drive of some of the ugliest areas in the UK, and my wife's family came from the actual "Valleys" town (Tonypandy) where my linked photos were taken.
(Score: 3, Informative) by TheRaven on Monday November 20 2017, @11:34AM
I don't think that's a particularly fair characterisation. I used to live in Swansea. The town suffered a lot from the recession (I think about half of the shops in the city centre closed, for example), but it seemed to be starting to rebound when I visited last year. The town has a couple of universities and so there's a reasonable amount going on if you know where to look (and, importantly, the places to avoid). A 10-20 minute bus ride or a 30-40 minute walk gets you onto the rural bits of the Gower peninsula, which are beautiful for the couple of months of the year when it's not raining. A shorter walk or bus / bike ride along the costal path gets you to the Mumbles, where there's a picturesque village with some nice coffee shops (and some really good ice cream).
I bought a nice two-bedroom house overlooking the sea with a 20-minute walk to the city centre and about a 2-minute walk to a large park (where I often sat with coffee and a book for a bit when I woke up) for about £100K in 2010 and house prices seem not to have moved very much since then - you can get somewhere pretty reasonable for a single person or couple with no children for under £150K, which is close to what you need for a deposit in London.
Oh, and there's a reasonable community of people who enjoy the low cost of livings and work for US tech firms - RedHat employs quite a few people there, for example.
sudo mod me up
(Score: 3, Insightful) by JustNiz on Sunday November 19 2017, @05:53AM
>> Some were finding it difficult, even when offering £60,000 salaries.
60k really isn't much at all. Welcome to the world of employers finally being as subject to the laws of supply and demand as everyone else.