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posted by CoolHand on Tuesday November 21 2017, @10:43PM   Printer-friendly
from the the-end-of-the-net-as-we-know-it dept.

The FCC will reveal vote to repeal net neutrality this week

The new rules are expected to be announced on Wednesday, whilst most Americans are distracted by getting home to loved ones for Thanksgiving.

This will then be followed by a vote on 10 December, which would see the 2015 rules designed to protect the internet being torn down.

[...] The important point, as we've said before, is that once the genie is out of the bottle, getting it back in is almost impossible and for our readers outside the US, don't think this doesn't affect you - everything that passes through US servers will be affected in some way and will knock on to you.


Original Submission

Related Stories

Support Net Neutrality Day / FCC Chairman Ajit Pai's Tone-Deaf "Verizon Puppet" Skit 44 comments

[Ed note: Some important context for this submission appears in this c|net article: Internet sites to protest Trump Admin's net neutrality plan

A group of activists and websites including Imgur, Mozilla, Pinterest, Reddit, GitHub, Etsy, BitTorrent and Pornhub are planning a campaign Tuesday to draw attention to an upcoming FCC vote that could radically reshape the way the internet works.

[...] Tuesday's campaign is the latest effort by activists to dissuade the FCC from repealing Obama-era rules that effectively classified internet service providers as utilities. The classification, known as Title II, forced companies like Verizon, AT&T and Comcast to treat all internet traffic equally. Last week, protesters marched outside Verizon stores around the US.

Earlier, a handful of tech trailblazers -- including Vint Cerf, a founding figure of the internet Steve Wozniak, a co-founder of Apple; and Tim Berners-Lee, the inventor of the World Wide Web -- posted an open letter on Tumblr criticizing the proposed repeal of net neutrality.

"The FCC's rushed and technically incorrect proposed order to abolish net neutrality protections without any replacement is an imminent threat to the Internet we worked so hard to create," the letter said. "It should be stopped."

Imagine if all sites defaulted to, say, dial-up or ISDN speeds unless they paid extra for full-speed internet. The large, incumbent sites on the net could easily absorb such costs. Smaller, new, or niche sites (such as SoylentNews) could not afford to pay for faster access. If this is not what you want, then contact the FCC and/or your elected representatives and let your view be heard.]

takyon writes:

Ajit Pai jokes with Verizon exec about him being a "puppet" FCC chair

On Thursday night in Washington, DC, net neutrality advocates gathered outside the annual Federal Communications Commission Chairman's Dinner to protest Chairman Ajit Pai's impending rollback of net neutrality rules.

Inside the dinner (also known as the "telecom prom") at the Washington Hilton, Pai entertained the audience with jokes about him being a puppet installed by Verizon to lead the FCC.

Pai was a Verizon associate general counsel from 2001 to 2003, and next week he will lead an FCC vote to eliminate net neutrality rules—just as Verizon and other ISPs have asked him to.

At the dinner, Pai played a satirical video that showed him planning his ascension to the FCC chairmanship with a Verizon executive in 2003. The Verizon executive was apparently Kathleen Grillo, a senior VP and deputy general counsel in the company's public policy and government affairs division.

The speech was apparently not supposed to be public, but Gizmodo obtained footage of Pai's remarks and the skit. You can watch it here.

The vote is currently scheduled for Thursday, Dec. 14. The FCC and Federal Trade Commission announced that they will work together to punish ISPs that don't keep their promises (assuming they make any).

Previously: Washington DC Braces for Net Neutrality Protests Later This Month
FCC Plans December Vote to Kill Net Neutrality Rules
FCC Will Reveal Vote to Repeal Net Neutrality This Week
Comcast Hints at Plans for Paid Fast Lanes after Net Neutrality Repeal
More than a Million Pro-Repeal Net Neutrality Comments were Likely Faked


Original Submission

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  • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday November 21 2017, @10:51PM (3 children)

    by bob_super (1357) on Tuesday November 21 2017, @10:51PM (#599930)

    There's only one way! Quick, to Cashmobile !

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by julian on Tuesday November 21 2017, @11:05PM (2 children)

      by julian (6003) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 21 2017, @11:05PM (#599937)

      The dude used to work for Verizon. He still does, but he used to, too.

      In other news, Mr. Fox appointed Chairman of hen house security.

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 21 2017, @11:13PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 21 2017, @11:13PM (#599949)

        We all freaked out when Obama appointed somebody from the cable industry, but that worked out OK.

        Trump had limited choices anyway. He didn't have free reign to pick just anybody. These people are McConnell approved.

        It would be notable if somebody from the ARRL or NSA were a choice. No such choices were available.

        • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @07:43PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @07:43PM (#600299)

          I'm pretty sure he did have free reign. He doesn't need to listen to McConnell. They might need to be approved, but he can keep the positions vacant until he wins. Stop trying to excuse loathsome behavior.

  • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 21 2017, @10:55PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 21 2017, @10:55PM (#599934)

    </discussion>

    • (Score: 2) by fishybell on Wednesday November 22 2017, @02:51AM

      by fishybell (3156) on Wednesday November 22 2017, @02:51AM (#600020)

      This has come up before [cnet.com], and don't you worry, once there are rules more or less encouraging blocking, they'll be back on this.

  • (Score: 5, Informative) by julian on Tuesday November 21 2017, @11:00PM (1 child)

    by julian (6003) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 21 2017, @11:00PM (#599936)

    Before discussing, watch this short video [youtube.com] to review the issue and why NN is important for true competition and freedom. Net neutrality is the spirit of American capitalism: freedom to compete, even for the little guy. Anti-Net Neutrality is crony capitalism; only the multinational corporations get to play--you just get to PAY.

    Don't be un-American!

    • (Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 21 2017, @11:10PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 21 2017, @11:10PM (#599943)

      Tier 1 network [wikipedia.org] is a network that can reach every other network on the Internet without purchasing IP transit or paying for peering.

      only the multinational corporations get to play--you just get to PAY.

      YOU PAY because you are an ignorant insignificant tiny little nobody.

  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 21 2017, @11:06PM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 21 2017, @11:06PM (#599940)

    The pendulum will just swing back to the democrats, and they'll reinstall their half-assed "neutrality" bill. And then they'll do something stupid and the pendulum will once again swing back to the republicans, and they'll repeal it again... repeat ad nauseum... People really do like to flog themselves with this bullshit. Always fun to watch until it can't be contained

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @02:23AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @02:23AM (#600013)

      the pendulum will once again swing back to the republicans

      Seriously, don't think this is going to happen again. Les Donald has spoken, "Apres moi, le Deluge!"

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @04:05PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @04:05PM (#600219)

      thanks for your optimism. what value did this provide

      may the censorship prevent you from being able to discuss this in the future due to your powers of choice deciding you don't need a choice.

  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Tuesday November 21 2017, @11:13PM (6 children)

    by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Tuesday November 21 2017, @11:13PM (#599951) Homepage Journal

    Some must have net neutrality, whereas others must not due to the corrupt nature of their businesses and governments.

    Yet I've never actually heard any discussion of neutrality outside the US. Surely Soylent would have covered it.

    --
    Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
    • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 21 2017, @11:18PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 21 2017, @11:18PM (#599955)

      China is Great. Everyone is connected to China Telecom and China Mobile and the entire network has one neutral Firewall.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by c0lo on Tuesday November 21 2017, @11:55PM

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 21 2017, @11:55PM (#599973) Journal

      Yet I've never actually heard any discussion of neutrality outside the US.

      Because we don't need to. Sure, there will be some hitchtes at first, but in this context (routing) the saying with "the Internet sees something-something as damage and routes around" really do apply.
      We'll start by switching traffic via ... let me see... Brazil [soylentnews.org], India and South Africa [soylentnews.org], Cuba and Venezuela [cnet.com]?
      Ah, I guess you can see the map by yourself [submarinecablemap.com].

      If you want to go on the
      - "but... Netflix and Apple and whatevs", let me remind that the CDN network is quite present where it needs to be. If more bandwidth is necessary, it will be created where necessary.
      - online gaming - never seen anyone dying for not being able to play with/against USians

      And the first that will look into getting their content/services presence less restricted and still cheap will be: Amazon, Microsoft, Apple, Netflix and derivatives. Not quite the destitutes of the business world - if they want the money, they'll move after them instead of waiting the money to come to them.

      I don't know why I have this feeling the joke is on you, dear USian guys. Perhaps that Ajit-whats-his-name is doing the rest of the world a service, NSA wiretapping and whatnot.

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @02:59AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @02:59AM (#600022)

      Portugal has an ISP that is all the EFF fears. Internet packages are purchased like cable TV packages.

      India has ISPs (cell phone networks) that have made special deals with Facebook. That comes free, other stuff will cost you, so just stay on Facebook where you can afford it. Soylentnews costs real money.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @08:17AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @08:17AM (#600103)

      "Yet I've never actually heard any discussion of neutrality outside the US. Surely Soylent would have covered it."

      That's probably because outside of the USA, network neutrality is known as "Common Sense".

  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 21 2017, @11:17PM (15 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 21 2017, @11:17PM (#599954)

    The net neutrality loss is a small defect for an otherwise wonderful president. Life isn't all computer networks and telecom stuff.

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 21 2017, @11:25PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 21 2017, @11:25PM (#599959)

      Life isn't all computer networks and telecom stuff.

      We also care about self-driving cars and ride-sharing and living in poverty with a gig economy. Merica #2

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by julian on Tuesday November 21 2017, @11:52PM (11 children)

      by julian (6003) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 21 2017, @11:52PM (#599972)

      You're easy to please.

      Muslim ban: slapped down in court multiple times
      Wall: never getting built except for cute little prototype segments for racist congressmen to LARP around
      Hillary: not locked up, never will be
      NAFTA: not renegotiated, won't be
      World opinion: down, getting worse
      Indictments: started, more coming

      Thankfully the Obama recovery hasn't been stalled, so Obama gets credit for doing things well enough to carry into Trump's presidency. That doesn't go in Trump's column either.

      Man, you must be tired of all this winning! At least liberals are mad, which is all most Trumpkins really care about anyway.

      • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @12:45AM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @12:45AM (#599984)

        Has anybody without a connection to the other side been indicted yet? Who?

        Manafort and Podesta both got indicted for stuff prior to the 2016 campaign, back when both were lobbying democrats in support of Russia.

        More coming? I like this. Tony Podesta's brother John was running Hillary's campaign; he's the guy with the weird pizza-related code words in emails that got leaked, and he's the one who made ominous threats about leakers.

        • (Score: 5, Touché) by julian on Wednesday November 22 2017, @12:50AM (2 children)

          by julian (6003) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 22 2017, @12:50AM (#599986)

          All I know is those kids are still down in that basement and only you can save them! You need to grab your AR-15 and get down there, man! You'll be a hero! You're gonna blow this case wide open, champ!

          • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @02:12AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @02:12AM (#600009)

            Suppose you are John Podesta, yet you have done nothing wrong. (hard to imagine I know) Your weird yet perfectly innocent pizza-related email gets out. People wrongly connect it with pedophile terminology.

            Wouldn't you immediately clear that up with an actual explanation for why your pizza-related emails are weird as fuck?

            • (Score: 4, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @03:10AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @03:10AM (#600023)

              Well, personally, I wouldn't, because the resulting conspiracy theory was completely loony (maybe 700-800 millitimecubes), and most people don't give a shit about Reddit.

              I mean, I've heard some compelling conspiracy theories. That was not one of them. You've at least got to be as compelling as the Flat-Earthers. That's like bare minimum. Or at least be creative like the weather war theory. I really don't see enough weather war on the internet(s). Anyway, try not to exceed 0.5 timecubes.

              I still think you all got trolled by somebody who wanted to start an urban legend around the "loli haet pizza" meme in the guise of a conspiracy theory. lurk moar.

      • (Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @01:00AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @01:00AM (#599990)

        We have solid evidence for the Russia connection now. Two scandals, not one, count them, two scandals that would make Nixon blush!

        1. Fusion GPS
        http://dailycaller.com/2017/11/21/unsealed-fusion-gps-bank-records-show-russia-related-payments/ [dailycaller.com]

        2. Uranium One
        http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/361276-fbi-informant-gathered-years-of-evidence-on-russian-push-for-us [thehill.com]

        It's hard waiting for the indictments, but nobody wants to be Russian!

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @01:33AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @01:33AM (#600000)

        https://panampost.com/david-unsworth/2017/11/21/media-trump-popular-world-leaders/ [panampost.com]

        I think that beating May, Macron, Merkel, and Trudeau is something... not that a non-US popularity contest should matter.

        Chinese people like Trump better than Obama. They see him as being relatively strong and honest.

      • (Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @01:45AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @01:45AM (#600005)

        In a third-world country, a political leader can commit crimes and not face charges. One can be a high-level government official, take bribes or destroy evidence, and get away with it.

        Is this what you want? You're really OK with her not being in prison?

        We're going to be third-world if that opinion becomes predominant.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @03:13AM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @03:13AM (#600024)

        I just need to know when we can stop thanking Obama. Give us a date, beyond which you'll praise Trump for any growth.

        Personally, I like to have them share credit from the election until the summer after the inauguration. If I were being mean, I'd just start after the election, since the stock market has been going up since then.

        • (Score: 2) by julian on Wednesday November 22 2017, @05:39AM (2 children)

          by julian (6003) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 22 2017, @05:39AM (#600061)

          It depends what you're thanking him for. His library? He basically gets credit for that forever. The economy? He gets credit for that as long as it's his policies doing us well...and they still are. It's like how we still thank Truman for showing the Japanese that imperialism causes radiation burns.

          • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @05:55AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @05:55AM (#600063)

            I asked about Trump, and you say "He gets credit for that as long as it's his policies doing us well...and they still are."

            Well I'm glad you agree. Tossing out 32% of the Federal Register (regulations) in his first year is quite good. He promised a reduction of 2 for each 1 added, but he actually cut 16 for every 1 added.

            In case your "He" meant Obama, tossing out regulations doesn't seem to be an Obama policy.

            Compare presidents:
            https://cei.org/blog/red-tape-rollback-report-trump-ends-fiscal-year-americas-least-regulatory-president-reagan [cei.org]

            That, and even your denial tactic, gets covered here:
            http://archive.is/LOVf7#selection-1823.85-1829.152 [archive.is]

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @07:51PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @07:51PM (#600304)

            I despise Trump, but to say that Obama brought about some excellent economy is nonsense. Economic inequality is higher than ever. Dodd-Frank was an incredibly weak set of regulations. Obama was a corporate puppet, but not to the extent that Trump is. If you're looking for someone to praise, a politician probably isn't it.

    • (Score: 2, Funny) by realDonaldTrump on Wednesday November 22 2017, @12:20AM (1 child)

      by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Wednesday November 22 2017, @12:20AM (#599980) Homepage Journal

      Thank you for your beautiful, beautiful support!

      And believe me, you're gonna LOVE the repeal & replace of "net neutrality." We're going to shut down the failing Fake News Internet, the ISIS Internet, and the pimping sites. the "net neutrality" is part of what we're repealing. Other countries have been eating our lunch on the Internet. That's gonna stop. Obama gave up control of our Internet to Russia, China, and Iran. That's the real Russian collusion, folks.

      And the replace is gonna be terrific. As you know, I went to China. The Chinese are smart cookies. They closed up their Internet. Making it very hard for American companies to operate on the Chinese Internet. And keeping out some very divisive messages from radical Islamic extremists. So their economy has grown TREMENDOUSLY. While their people are very happy. Some of the happiest people in the world, probably the happiest. I'll tell you, it's not great for our Internet companies. It's not great for ISIS. But it's a very smart move for China. It's made them happy and rich. What's not to like? So I have some very smart guys looking into, how do we do that here in the USA? How do we make our Internet American again? An America First Internet. We're gonna put American companies first. I guarantee, you'll have a lot of fun with that. And some of you are gonna make a lot of money with that. I promised I'd close up our Internet. It's happening. And you're gonna be happy about it. #MAGA 🇺🇸

      • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @03:16AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @03:16AM (#600025)

        Will there still be cyber on the internet?

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by jelizondo on Tuesday November 21 2017, @11:42PM (4 children)

    by jelizondo (653) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 21 2017, @11:42PM (#599969) Journal

    China controls the Internet for political power and now the good ol’ U.S. of A. will do it for economic power. Different motives, same result: we will see in the Internet whatever those in power want and nothing else.

    I can understand why the Chinese people don’t rebel against its government, i.e. anyone who tries get shot and forgotten. Why doesn’t people in the U.S. rebel against a government clearly against the people? I believe most people have been converted to the ideology (*) of the free-market.

    I despair of this world.

    (*) I’m against the ideology which is kind of being a Catholic and firmly believing the Pope is infallible, clearly, it is bullshit but the faithful believe it. I'm for the free market but the free market requires some agency, like the government, to maintain a level playing field and preventing abuses from big corporations.

    Believing that the free market by itself will care enough not to pollute our drinking water, not feed us garbage and pay us a living wage is like believing in the infallibility of the Pope. Witness the FCC proposal, the dismantling of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, the shrinking of national parks, et al. Once the government works for the big corporations, the people are nothing and have nothing. Thus my despair, the oppressed can’t fight and the free won’t.

    • (Score: 1, Troll) by realDonaldTrump on Wednesday November 22 2017, @02:14AM

      by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Wednesday November 22 2017, @02:14AM (#600010) Homepage Journal

      China was having tremendous problems with Mongolians, so they closed up their Internet. They put a "Wall" around their Internet. They call it the Wall, it's not a Wall, it's cyber. But it lets them control their Internet. As you know. And it's been great for their politics, their government runs very smoothly. President Xi, if he wants something, if he works on it hard, it will happen. I guarantee you, it will happen. Their government works very well. Before they built the "Wall" it wasn't so good. When the students poured into Tiananmen Square, the Chinese government almost blew it, then they were vicious, they were horrible, but they put it down with strength. That shows you the power of strength. That is a strong, powerful government that put it down with strength. And then they kept down the riot. It was a horrible thing. You don't see that now. When I was in China, it's amazing, you didn't see one protester. I brought Wilbur Ross to Beijing with me, he says "look, not a single protester!" And he was right. They're very happy, their politics are amazing. And the "Wall" has a lot to do with that. It's great for them politically.

      But it's also great for their economy. I think the "Wall" has done a lot for their economy. You look at Tencent, you look at Alibaba, you look at Baidu. Huge companies. Can you imagine if they had to compete with MSN, AOL and Yahoo? They couldn't, they'd be nothing now if not for the "Wall." It protects their Internet from bad political messages, from the ISIS recruiters, the pornographers and all that. But it also protects their businesses. So the money stays in their country. It's an idea wall but it's also a money wall. Their Internet is closed and they have a tremendous economy because of it. We listened to the siren song of globalism, it's hurt our economy very badly. I'm turning it around, closing our Internet is a big part of that. Our economy is really going to take off once we take back our Internet.

      So when we close up our Internet, we have a great model in China. They fixed their politics and they fixed their economy. We need to do the same. We're a divided, mixed-up, not-unified country. Very sick. When you're sick and you go to the doctor, they isolate you. So it doesn't spread. We have a lot of sick ideas on our Internet, we need to isolate it. So they don't spread.

      And my predecessors made some very unfair trade deals, other countries are killing us on trade. A lot of which happens on the Internet. When we TAKE BACK control of our Internet, we can begin to heal the wounds that have divided us. We can take control of the Fake News MSM that has been fomenting divisions. We can UNIFY our country. Like China is unified. And it's going to be great for our economy. The stock people know it, the investors know. The stock markets have gone up tremendously since I was elected. Goldman Sachs, BMO Capital, UBS, Deutsche Bank, and Credit Suisse are all very bullish. I'm Making America Great Again. And taking control of our Internet is a big, big part of that.

      You look at the biggest employers, my government is the biggest. Especially my military. But there just isn't the money to keep that going. Except for my military guys. We're doing the biggest tax CUT in the history of the world, so we have to cut out a lot of government jobs. Sounds bad, it isn't bad. Our economists say it's going to be fine, because our economy is booming like never before.

      Outside of my government, a lot of the biggest employers are also the biggest companies. IBM, McDonald’s, Yum, Wal-Mart, Home Depot, Target, Kroger, Hewlett-Packard, GE, they all have over 300,000 jobs. Every one. And they're all very big companies. A small company just doesn't make many jobs. I hate to say it, because I love the small companies. I've started hundreds of small companies. But a small company just doesn't make many jobs, you need the big ones. So we're doing everything we can for our biggest, biggest companies. The biggest thing being the tax cut. Which puts them first. Right up there with the American people. Who vote for the Republican Party because we've always stood behind our big businesses (long before the Dems tried to be the party of big business). Who have been voting for us overwhelmingly. Who elected me in a LANDSLIDE. And who are getting tremendous jobs. #MAGA 🇺🇸

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @04:02AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @04:02AM (#600036)

      The Pope is only infallible when he speaks Ex Cathedra. Get with the program heretic.

      • (Score: 1) by jelizondo on Wednesday November 22 2017, @04:34AM

        by jelizondo (653) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 22 2017, @04:34AM (#600043) Journal

        Still ex-Cahtedra bullshit, get a brain

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @04:07PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @04:07PM (#600220)

      do what i do

      start finding new hobbies. don't upgrade your os and run the old computers for as long as you can, or at least as long as until you decide you are able to get by not wanting to be surveilled and decried as someone with something to hide since you refuse to do what everyone else does online.

      if you become an old fuddy dotard then you will be excused, even if they don't realize you chose to look like one to save yourself.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @12:28AM (10 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @12:28AM (#599981)

    The US today is the Rome in her declining days, she is going out not with a bang but with a whimper.

    And we deserve it, and y'all know it.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @01:26AM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @01:26AM (#599997)

      So, has Trump started taking violin lessons?

      • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Wednesday November 22 2017, @04:51AM (2 children)

        by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday November 22 2017, @04:51AM (#600045)

        Wrong instrument: Nero didn't play fiddle, he played the small lyre [youtube.com].

        --
        The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
        • (Score: 5, Funny) by arulatas on Wednesday November 22 2017, @02:15PM (1 child)

          by arulatas (3600) on Wednesday November 22 2017, @02:15PM (#600175)

          And Trump plays the Big Liar

          --
          ----- 10 turns around
          • (Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Thursday November 23 2017, @11:54PM

            by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Thursday November 23 2017, @11:54PM (#600879) Homepage Journal

            I will never lie to you. I will never tell you something I do not believe. I will never put anyone’s interests ahead of yours. Never, ever, ever. So while sometimes I can be too honest, George Papadopoulos is the exact opposite: he never tells the truth. One lie after another, and getting worse each passing day. Check the DEMS!

    • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @01:41AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @01:41AM (#600003)

      Regression to the mean should not surprise anybody. We've done well, which just isn't normal.

      As with Rome, we've been letting in people who don't agree with our culture.

      We've even started losing it ourselves. Have you seen our missing protestant work ethic lately? It's lost. (and I'm not even protestant, but I'm giving credit where due) These days, we'd rather find an excuse to go on disability; in past decades that would have been to shameful to consider unless it were 110% justified.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @09:02PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @09:02PM (#600345)

        The Protestant work ethic was popular in the 1950s and 1960s because the great majority of white heterosexual males didn't have to work too hard to find a job paying 3 times minimum wage or better. And that was when the inflation-adjusted value of minimum wage was equivalent to $10 per hour or better today. So imagine if someone made that offer to a high school graduate: you work for us for thirty years at $60,000 per year or so, we pay good benefits, and you retire with a pension. Most people would take that in a heartbeat.

        That's not what the average American has today. Tens of millions of people working for far less than $60,000 per year, terrible benefits, no pension. Many people not even making $15 an hour. Health care costs astronomically higher.

        It's uninformed or intentionally dishonest to compare then to now and blame the problem on workers.

    • (Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Wednesday November 22 2017, @12:30PM (2 children)

      by PiMuNu (3823) on Wednesday November 22 2017, @12:30PM (#600142)

      I prefer to compare with the British empire. Britain spent most of 18th century and early 19th century paying competitors to invade each other - basically from 1700 through to Waterloo. Following which, Britain enjoyed a very wealth 19th century before decline in the late 19th/early 20th culminating in the first and second world wars.

      America paid competitors - Britain and France - to invade Germany i.e. first and second world wars. Amerca enjoyed a very wealthy 20th century before decline in the early 21st century. Now, if America's competitors are on the ball, they need to encourage a nice war (which they can bankroll), say US against China or Russia, and that should set them on a course for a wealthy 21st century. As Britain did very effectively in 18th century, the trick is to stay aloof from the war for most of it, come in and finish off whoever happens to be the bad guy of the day (Hitler, Louis 14th, Bonaparte, etc)

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by tangomargarine on Wednesday November 22 2017, @04:02PM (1 child)

        by tangomargarine (667) on Wednesday November 22 2017, @04:02PM (#600217)

        America paid competitors - Britain and France - to invade Germany i.e. first and second world wars.

        Er, what? You do know who invaded whom first in those wars, right? (Hint: It wasn't Britain or France.)

        The only country that invaded Germany was actually Russia, towards the front end of the war (before they got bogged down in the revolution and signed out of the war). Germany agreed to an Armistice before anybody from the Western Front got onto their soil. Heck, they still controlled half of Belgium at the end.

        --
        "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by PiMuNu on Wednesday November 22 2017, @06:04PM

          by PiMuNu (3823) on Wednesday November 22 2017, @06:04PM (#600274)

          Sorry, fair point. And on a similar note Napoleon and Louis XIV were both aggressors. My point is, Britain stayed pretty aloof but bankrolled the other power's war, as did US in WWII. Until Pearl Harbour, obviously. You are right to correct me on the "moral imperative" but the strategic argument I think is the same.

    • (Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Wednesday November 22 2017, @09:43PM

      by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us (6553) on Wednesday November 22 2017, @09:43PM (#600367) Journal

      Potentially, yes. We won't know until the future is now. For did the Romans know they were falling, or had fallen? I don't know, but I don't think so.

      If we are falling, or have fallen, it shall not be decidedly known until the successor state rises.

      As to deserve.... I shall instead quote William Munny [wikipedia.org], "Deserve's got nothing to do with it."

      --
      This sig for rent.
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