Mom charged after putting recording device in daughter's backpack
In late September, Sims says she had enough. She tells 10 On Your Side her 9-year-old daughter was getting bullied at Ocean View Elementary. She says repeated calls and emails to the school went un-returned. [...] Sims says she took actions into her own hands. She wanted to prove that nothing was being done to help her 4th grade daughter. She put a digital recorder into her daughter's backpack in hopes of catching audio from inside the classroom. "If I'm not getting an answer from you what am I left to do?" she asked. The recorder was found. The 9-year-old was moved to a new classroom and about a month later Sims was charged by police.
[...] Sims was charged with felony use of device to intercept oral communication and misdemeanor contributing to the delinquency of a minor. The felony charge could carry five years in prison.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday November 30 2017, @02:28AM (8 children)
Doesn't look very blissful in this particular situation.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by captain normal on Thursday November 30 2017, @02:50AM (7 children)
I'm not sure what you are talking about. Are you talking about a mother who was concerned about her child's welfare. A child who had professed fear about bullying at he school? Or are you talking about a school administration and/or the law enforcement officials the administration called who failed to react to concerns of the mother for her daughter who then overcharged the mother without consulting with her?
"It is easier to fool someone than it is to convince them that they have been fooled" Mark Twain
(Score: 5, Funny) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday November 30 2017, @03:04AM (6 children)
I'm talking about her apparent ignorance of the law. Mostly though I just needed to make a comment on an article to make sure comments were un-hosed again. martyb forgot to turn off his magical QA powers when he was poking at something on the CONFIG page and found a bug older than SN that could hose posting new comments if you held your mouth precisely right.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Informative) by martyb on Thursday November 30 2017, @04:28AM
"magical QA powers"? Can't wait until I reach the rank of Wizard! =)
But seriously, I do apologize for tripping up comment posting.
The last comment posted before things went wonky was at: 2017-11-29 23:25:14 UTC and the first after things got corrected was at: 2017-11-30 02:25:06 UTC.
I would like to take a moment and note this is a testament to how well the devs wrangled the slashcode base into shape. When SoylentNews first went live, entire site outages were pretty common. That it now runs days, weeks, and (dare I say it) even months without issues impresses me greatly! Heck, we were even able to move servers between data centers while the site remained up. About the only recent, user-visible hiccup that I recall was that we lost IRC during one of those moves, and that was only a matter of a few minutes.
Wit is intellect, dancing.
(Score: 4, Funny) by Wootery on Thursday November 30 2017, @12:07PM (3 children)
Workaround: everyone shut up.
(Score: 4, Funny) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday November 30 2017, @02:28PM (2 children)
Well, I mean, I could still post since I have direct access to the db but arguing with myself just isn't as satisfying and who would I troll when the mood strikes me?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Wootery on Thursday November 30 2017, @02:58PM
Anyone you like - you have direct access to the db!
(Score: 5, Funny) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Thursday November 30 2017, @03:11PM
You could troll yourself - multiple personality disorder is fun!
No it isn't.
Shut up, wasn't asking you.
You shut up.
You want to take this offline, tough boy?
Why yes, c'mon let's go outside.........
This sig for rent.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by driverless on Friday December 01 2017, @12:42AM
If I was your mother
I'd never let you leave
Without a small recording device
Tucked into your backpack
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Zinho on Thursday November 30 2017, @02:41AM (10 children)
This is why wiretapping laws should only require the knowledge of one party. Two party/all party laws are admirable for their protection of privacy; unfortunately, they are too often used to prosecute victims who have no other way to prove that they've been abused. Bonus points for the abusers being police acting in official capacity. [techdirt.com]
"Space Exploration is not endless circles in low earth orbit." -Buzz Aldrin
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Virindi on Thursday November 30 2017, @02:57AM (8 children)
Actually, it is one party consent.
The mom was not a party to the conversations she was recording.
Clearly there needs to be an exception to allow parents to spy on their kids, since that is in fact sometimes warranted and should not be criminal.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 30 2017, @03:14AM (3 children)
In California we were part of the Nielsen ratings family, carrying around pager like devices that picked up what TV/radio show you were tuned in to. The public elementary school here wouldn't allow the devices even though Nielsen ratings provided a letter to the schools explaining that it only picks up audio signals (beyond human hearing) that is broadcast on TV that IDs the show.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Ethanol-fueled on Thursday November 30 2017, @04:05AM (1 child)
I know families like you. But I can't talk about much, or else I will get banned.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 30 2017, @02:27PM
They do NDAs just like everyone else now.
(Score: 2) by edIII on Thursday November 30 2017, @06:05PM
Interesting. They went cheap as fuck on me. I got a little tiny book that looked it had been printed in the 50's. Recorded everything by hand, and then mailed it back in. Got a couple of bucks for it.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday November 30 2017, @03:46AM (1 child)
Parental consent for the child should count for something in this case.
State laws can be confusing. If you want/need to record something, you need to check the laws, and maybe even see a lawyer first.
This might be useful in her defense: (a) To intercept or access an electronic communication made through an electronic communication system that is configured so that such electronic communication is readily accessible to the general public; Her child, as well as all classmates are members of the public.
Don't have time to really read that page, but there seem to be loopholes in her favor.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by Virindi on Thursday November 30 2017, @01:22PM
That is not what that means. It is referring to things such as broadcast radio. A communication accessible to the public, not to select members of the public.
(Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Thursday November 30 2017, @04:08AM
The village elders decided that I should not be able to speak too much. Well, whatever.
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Thursday November 30 2017, @03:14PM
And that then gets exploited by parent who wants to wiretap others and doesn't give a fsck that they are using their kid to do it. (Think custody, just for starters.) After all, who thinks the kid will understand?
This sig for rent.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by melikamp on Thursday November 30 2017, @05:46AM
"Wiretapping" laws are a fucking joke since everyone is carrying a spy-phone with a hot mike. Oogle, M$, and SpyOS are tapping everyone within an earshot of every spy phone 24/7 across the US. When will they get charged?
Welcome to the new reality, where everyone (even many people who hate spy phones and would rather not!) is carrying a computer capable of recording and storing a/v. It is utterly ridiculous to expect privacy when you weren't promised one via a binding contract, and from now on these "wiretapping" laws will be used exclusively to oppress, censor, abuse, and gag, until we elect representatives who will trash them. They have no more legitimate applications, because no one except for spy-phone freaks like RMS and yours truly can possibly be in compliance.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by DeathMonkey on Thursday November 30 2017, @02:44AM (3 children)
Sounds like Virginia is a single party consent [dmlp.org] state.
I guess they're arguing the daughter didn't (or couldn't) consent?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 30 2017, @03:18AM (1 child)
Well it's been many decades since I was nine, but as I recall being too young to provide legal consent myself meant that power fell to my mother.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Sulla on Thursday November 30 2017, @04:13AM
Can I bug my car as a precaution against thieves? Children are property until 18.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 30 2017, @03:34AM
Presumably that's it, but normally in cases where children aren't allowed to consent, the parents are. Regardless of outcome, whatever the ruling is here will have impacts in the future.
Although, shame on the schools for not reporting anything back at all. Silence in cases like this is the same thing as doing nothing. Why bother reporting bullying if you don't hear that it's being dealt with or see a change in treatment of your child?
(Score: 5, Informative) by EventH0rizon on Thursday November 30 2017, @02:45AM (22 children)
Happily, the charges have now been dropped [wavy.com]
The charges were outrageous, no question.
Perhaps this is why the US has the highest incarceration rate on the planet?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Arik on Thursday November 30 2017, @03:25AM (16 children)
They let her go on discretion, not because the charges weren't sustainable. In fact they assert their was probable cause for this.
That's not a positive outcome.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Thursday November 30 2017, @03:49AM (11 children)
It's not a "good" outcome, no. But at least they aren't going to burn her at the stake. That "discretion" may well mean that SOMEONE in the legal heirarchy has a tiny bit of sense. But, they want to preserve the law so that they can burn someone else who is causing real harm. Mehhh, I dunno . . .
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Arik on Thursday November 30 2017, @03:58AM (10 children)
And that would indicate someone that shouldn't be involved in law, because they simply don't get it.
When you get to pick and choose which laws to enforce against whom, that's no longer rule of law, it's rule of men. It's exactly what the founders tried to prevent.
If there's a law she violated here then there's a law that needs to be repealed or overturned outright, not one that needs 'discretion.'
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by lentilla on Thursday November 30 2017, @05:24AM (2 children)
We are not a society of lawyers - we are a society of people. I'm all for enforcing laws consistently but; to be honest; this situation should not have come to the attention of the law. That's where "discretion" is applicable. Once it's in the system there are rules that must be followed... but it shouldn't have been in the system in the first place. One should only appeal to the law as a final resort.
(Score: 2) by Wootery on Thursday November 30 2017, @12:13PM
De minimis non curat lex, [duhaime.org] right?
(Score: 1) by nitehawk214 on Thursday November 30 2017, @11:31PM
ALL of our politicians are lawyers. We are a people ruled by lawyers.
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 30 2017, @07:03AM
You call politicians and lawyers 'men'? How lenient of you.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 30 2017, @11:50AM (1 child)
?? This kind of thing happens all of the time. Charges are dropped or downgraded, etc... etc... Maybe the prosecutor's office is understaffed relative to its caseload, so they flat out dump many lesser cases.
The enforcement of law in the legal system has always been a mix of written word and human discretion.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Thursday November 30 2017, @10:05PM
The fundamental problem being that the writing of laws is a mix of written word and intent.
While that's true everywhere, the US Special Blend of Cronyism, legal bribery, stash of contradicting case law, and need to find standing before you can start the extra-long process of getting even a blatantly unconstitutional law repealed, makes of a pretty unique clusterfuck.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Zobeid Zuma on Thursday November 30 2017, @12:44PM (1 child)
You put discretion in quotes as if you don't believe it's a real thing, but it most definitely is an integral part of our criminal justice system in the USA. Law officers have discretion. Prosecutors have discretion. Judges have discretion. Even juries have discretion, in theory, though the courts have done everything possible to discourage its exercise. Discretion means that the state is not obligated to prosecute someone if doing so is not in the state's interest—or, in broader terms, if it's not in the interest of society or justice.
Laws are not perfect. They can never be perfectly crafted, and it's always going to be possible for someone to run afoul of the law "as written" when they have, in fact, done nothing harmful and nothing that there's any good reason to prosecute them for. Discretion takes that into account.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Thursday November 30 2017, @10:16PM
Discretion is to come into play after a criminal act has been committed.
What criminal act was committed here? By the lady in question, I mean, not by the police or school administration.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Thursday November 30 2017, @05:42PM
I got into fisticuffs with a caltech administrator. The charges were dropped when I agreed to 72 hours in a nuthouse
My record gives no details just "Furtherance of justice"
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by i286NiNJA on Friday December 01 2017, @02:39AM
Hopefully they'll start by enforcing all the laws when YOU'RE around. The cops can give you a hug and tell you they simply have no choice but to enforce the law as written.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by sjames on Thursday November 30 2017, @04:36AM (2 children)
Of course they said that. They want to make sure she is too afraid to realize that since it's a one party consent state, the charges were bogus and were meant to intimidate her from the start. She could sue for that.
(Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Thursday November 30 2017, @07:03PM (1 child)
From the last paragraph, it appears that she is considering a lawsuit. Typical mealy-mouthed response from the school admin, I see.
Answer now is don't give in; aim for a new tomorrow.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Thursday November 30 2017, @07:36PM
Yeah, the school administration's response is about as sincere as "your call is very important to us..." after an hour on hold. I'm glad the woman wasn't scared off and I hope her lawsuit goes through, especially against the prosecutor's office.
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Thursday November 30 2017, @03:37PM
I don't know for sure, but don't they have to assert that lest it give the parent prima facie grounds to sue for false prosecution?
This sig for rent.
(Score: 3, Funny) by TheGratefulNet on Thursday November 30 2017, @03:54AM (4 children)
this is the South.
they have extreme difficulty with logic and reason, down there.
sorry if the truth hurts.
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 30 2017, @04:21AM (2 children)
The Hampton Roads region is not "the south". Ever been there? It's one huge military base with a nice resort area at one end.
Culturally, it has more in common with Baltimore or Newark than Savannah or Raleigh-Durham.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday November 30 2017, @09:38AM
However, in one word, where's that region? South fits quite well.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by TheGratefulNet on Friday December 01 2017, @04:30AM
never been there, but I'm quite certain that virginia is NOT the north, as far as attitudes go.
most certainly south.
note, I never said deep south, but its surely a southern state.
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 30 2017, @07:33AM
I agree with what AC posted about the Hampton Roads area. There ARE a few bits of Virginia that are still "South", but the southeast corner of the state is not. You only hear a very rare southern drawl - you're more likely to hear a NYC accent than an Alabama or Georgia accent.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 30 2017, @03:06AM (4 children)
Didn't see any pictures, but is the family black? In America, generally only the black and the poor get the book thrown at them like this.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by takyon on Thursday November 30 2017, @03:25AM (3 children)
Yes.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 30 2017, @05:11AM (2 children)
Hmm, thanks. It was the first thing that came in my mind when I read the story.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by takyon on Thursday November 30 2017, @05:17AM (1 child)
CNN story has a picture of the mom and her white lawyer. WAVY has a thumbnail for the updated story showing the mother being interviewed by the local news.
CNN probably helped this woman by pressuring them to drop charges. CNN Heroes!
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 30 2017, @05:59AM
"Heroes" this time, when they are not threatening to dox people.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 30 2017, @04:29AM
"The girl took the recorder out of her backpack and put it on her desk. That’s where the recorder was found."
A party to the conversation can record it there.
It seems reasonable to say that the girl was operating the recorder and was a party.
Which would put mom in the clear.
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by realDonaldTrump on Thursday November 30 2017, @06:45AM (1 child)
I call him the WIRETAPPER IN CHIEF, he bugged every phone in America!
(Score: 3, Informative) by TheGratefulNet on Friday December 01 2017, @04:32AM
your rants are really getting tiring.
maybe take a break??
its enough we have the real real donny two-scoops in the white house. and that's already one too many. don't need another here.
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 30 2017, @04:41PM
charge her with "attempting to hold agents of The Masters accountable", which is punishable by multiple years in a torture colony, evidently.