from the Louis-Wu-would-like-a-word-with-you dept.
"What I think is so interesting is that the future is always flying cars," Leuthardt says, handing the resident his Sharpie and picking up a scalpel. "They captured the dystopian component: they talk about biology, the replicants. But they missed big chunks of the future. Where were the neural prosthetics?"
It's a topic that Leuthardt, a 44-year-old scientist and brain surgeon, has spent a lot of time imagining. In addition to his duties as a neurosurgeon at Washington University in St. Louis, he has published two novels and written an award-winning play aimed at "preparing society for the changes ahead." In his first novel, a techno-thriller called RedDevil 4, 90 percent of human beings have elected to get computer hardware implanted directly into their brains. This allows a seamless connection between people and computers, and a wide array of sensory experiences without leaving home. Leuthardt believes that in the next several decades such implants will be like plastic surgery or tattoos, undertaken with hardly a second thought.
The article reports Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg are working on neural implants as well.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by bob_super on Friday December 01 2017, @07:58PM (2 children)
Botnet In Your Soul (TM).
Oblig: https://xkcd.com/644/ [xkcd.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 01 2017, @11:41PM
Band: They Might Be Connected?
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Saturday December 02 2017, @01:41AM
Gotta get yourself connected, the writing's on the wall. 'Cause if your mind's neglected, stumble, you might fall.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 01 2017, @08:04PM (9 children)
And yet people probably will do this. Just like they now proudly tote their "smartphones" around while attending to their "social media" feeds.
Humanity is doomed. The revolution will be SIGKILL'd.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by takyon on Friday December 01 2017, @08:24PM (2 children)
I hear you. Letting Mark "People just submitted to it" Zuckerborg implant a chip in your brain would be crazy.
But it would be like, so cool bruh.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 4, Insightful) by edIII on Friday December 01 2017, @08:44PM (1 child)
But implanting a chip might not be that crazy. If it had no blobs/binaries and was fully open source. I know I'm looking forward to some kind of neural interface that would allow me to type just by thought, move the mouse just by thinking about movement.
For somebody that suffers from problems with their hands, being able to move at the speed of my mind would be fantastic. I might even start to play video games again if they get the lag down.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 01 2017, @11:01PM
It's true that an open source chip in your brain could be workable. But at the end of the day it means you are also hackable.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by urza9814 on Friday December 01 2017, @08:54PM (3 children)
I think this is fundamentally different than the existing surveillance devices.
Basically...I think these kinds of implants generally depend on the brain learning to use the implant rather than the implant interpreting brain signals. Which means it's not the standard sci-fi implant where you "hear" a ringing sound then tap your neck to answer the phone call and speak to another person without actually vocalizing anything...instead it's a subconscious connection, where your brain will mediate interactions possibly without even consciously thinking about it. If you have a question and someone else has an answer, you'll just know it too.
And if that's the case, it's not so much a device that reads your mind as it is an extension of your own brain. And if you're linking directly to other people it's more of a single hive organism rather than other people reading your thoughts. To talk about such a device invading your privacy is like saying your eyes are invading the privacy of your hand. It's nonsense.
Of course, whether or not creating a human hive organism is actually a good idea is open for debate. But the question I think is not about spying or privacy but about individualism. I think it's inevitable though and probably necessary if we hope to explore and colonize the galaxy. An individual human can't hope to explore the galaxy any more than a single cell might explore the earth. But combine those cells into humans and they can collect a hell of a lot of information and cover quite a lot of ground. Combine those humans into a planetary mind and maybe we *could* have a meaningful conversation with star systems hundreds or thousands of light-years away.
The way I see it...atoms combine into molecules; molecules combine into cells; cells combine into organisms...why should it stop there? You could certainly argue that the next step is governments or corporations or other social structures...but I don't think that's quite the same thing. A human being is more than just a colony of single-cell organisms.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 01 2017, @09:14PM
Or it will be like every commercial device on the planet, with a closed source proprietary baseband modem with the power to lowjack the main cpu (your brain), 'cause security...
In other words, there's a lot of room for interpretation in "internet connected brain implant" and I'm skeptical we'll get the one we want anytime soon.
I don't want to know how quickly my subconscious would blow throw a 4g data cap...
(Score: 1) by Sulla on Friday December 01 2017, @11:23PM
Will be fun being old and having people hate me for not wanting to be part of the net. Will probably be forcefully implanted or purged over it, whatever. Thanks future, instead of flying cars you made or species a botnet.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Saturday December 02 2017, @09:54AM
Yes, both my hand and my eye are completely controlled by my brain. The difference is that neither my hand nor my eye is a separate sentient being.
And no, I don't think the danger is in the chip being connected to the brain. The danger is in the chip being connected to both the brain and the internet at the same time. While at the same time not removable.
Yes, I can also be manipulated through things I see or hear. Or information about me might be derived through observing my actions. Bit I have quite a bit control about what I see or hear. I cn easily close my eyes. With the ears it is not quite as easy, but the finger method works quite well. And in both cases, I can mostly avoid certain stimuli by simply avoiding the places where those stimuli are to be expected. This is a big part of the privacy of your home; it's that you have high control of what you see and hear there. Also, you have high control of the information that others get from there.
With this chip, you'll be constantly connected, probably through a proprietary interface which you don't know what exactly it does with the information. And the only way to disconnect will probably be to enter a Faraday cage.
Maybe a tinfoil hat will actually become a useful anti-surveillance tool.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Saturday December 02 2017, @09:38AM (1 child)
Yeah, probably they will implant it into your forehead. And equip it with near field communication for easy payment. Which will become the only supported payment method.
For those utterly resisting a brain implant, they'll offer a forehand implant instead. More cumbersome to use, but no direct connection to the brain.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by Justin Case on Sunday December 03 2017, @06:02PM
Also, everybody who gets this in their forehead or hand will be issued the same PIN: 666. What could possibly go wrong?
(I wonder if anyone else got your reference.)
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Friday December 01 2017, @08:30PM (6 children)
Did this guy somehow miss "The Matrix"? It was not a small, niche movie, and did far better in the theaters than Blade Runner did. (Blade Runner didn't do that great at the box office, but gained a strong following years later. From Wikipedia: "Blade Runner underperformed in North American theaters and polarized critics; some praised its thematic complexity and visuals, while others were displeased with its unconventional pacing and plot. However, it subsequently became an acclaimed cult film, and is now regarded as one of the all-time best science fiction movies. Hailed for its production design depicting a "retrofitted" future, Blade Runner remains a leading example of neo-noir cinema." The Matrix, OTOH, was a smash hit and immediately became part of the public conscious, much like Star Wars did in 1977 but to a lesser degree.)
Anyway, The Matrix had neural interfaces, and the world depicted there wasn't exactly great.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by urza9814 on Friday December 01 2017, @08:59PM (3 children)
The question in my mind is which comes first -- the full neural interface or true AI?
I think this is an extremely important concern. I think the neural interface is likely to end up as a kind of hive organism, where our networked technology eventually becomes an extension of ourselves, and our brains eventually merge towards a single global consciousness. But what happens if we plug in and find there's already a consciousness in there which might not be interested in sharing? Instead of the technology becoming an extension of ourselves, we may find that we become an extension of it!
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Friday December 01 2017, @09:03PM (2 children)
Sorry, hit submit a bit too quickly there...that was meant to relate to your original comment a bit more :)
Essentially The Matrix showed a possible result of the AI coming first. But rather than using us as a heat source, I think it would be more a matter of using us as processors. There's certainly tasks today which the human brain is better adapted for, and that's likely to be the case for a while. So the machines could find it worth keeping us around for the extra processors for a while. Plus we're pretty adaptable as a kind of mobile robotic platform, particularly since the AI would exist in a world built for human hands.
But I can't think of any movie that really shows the other side of that. We've occasionally gotten hive-minds, but they're generally some evil alien creature; never a possible best future for humanity.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 01 2017, @09:15PM (1 child)
And then Dumbass Donald joins the hive mind.
*screaming*: FAKE NEWS! FAKE NEWS! HUGE! GREAT! I LOVE PUTIN COCK!!
*gulg* *gulg* *gulg*
Yeah cool bro sef I will pass on that hive mind of idiots.
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Friday December 01 2017, @09:33PM
Well, we just shouldn't make Donald a neuron of this hive creature. Maybe he can be a skin cell or something ;)
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Friday December 01 2017, @09:37PM (1 child)
Forget the Matrix: This concept is a staple of cyberpunk going back long before the Matrix. And it can be both good, and very very very bad.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Friday December 01 2017, @10:17PM
IIRC, the Cyberpunk RPG has rules about losing your humanity as you upgrade your character with cybernetics. Too much of them cybers, and your character becomes crazy and unplayable.
Oh, look. a wiki: http://cyberpunk.wikia.com/wiki/Cyberpsychosis [wikia.com]
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Friday December 01 2017, @09:11PM (2 children)
can you connect this to the sex monitor in the last story?
Actual, real-time feedback! Get off on getting off!
Get lost in real-time metrics!
Get analytics! Get instagram and twitter feedback! Read tweets in time with your ...activities!
Or, link it to your VR hemet, and never leave your bedroom again!
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Saturday December 02 2017, @09:59AM (1 child)
If humanity gets connected into a hive mind, is then every sex just a form of masturbation?
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Saturday December 02 2017, @10:26AM
Is the singularity the ultimate onanistic act?
Also, the question could be asked of any sex act where only one participant is enjoying themself.
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 2) by turgid on Friday December 01 2017, @09:36PM (2 children)
Why do you refuse, citizen? It's for your own safety and security. Only those with something to hide could possibly have reason to refuse.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 3, Funny) by HiThere on Friday December 01 2017, @11:32PM (1 child)
Well, it gives a new meaning to "bleeding edge" technology. You going to sign up for beta testing?
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 02 2017, @10:53AM
Fuck beta!
(Score: 2) by nobu_the_bard on Friday December 01 2017, @09:40PM (1 child)
I don't know what fiction he's talking about. Ghost in the Shell has this as one of its major things. Neuromancer, of course, did it too. Blade Runner. Blame! is interesting, in that the line where humans and machines isn't even clear anymore - they call obviously robotic creatures "humans".
I haven't seen much with flying cars in awhile though.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Friday December 01 2017, @10:25PM
Blade Runner? There's no direct neural interface in that movie that I recall. The replicants were artificial, and had implanted memories (presumably when they were created), but that's it.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Zinho on Friday December 01 2017, @10:27PM (4 children)
I don't know what rock this guy has been living under; at 44 he should have lived through several, if not all of these:
* Johnny Mnemonic
* Neuromancer
* Shadowrun/Cyberpunk anything
* Ghost in the Shell
* The Matrix
* Psychohistorical Crisis [1]
* Robocop
* Deus Ex
I'm sure this crowd could list MANY others, but I may as well just link to the Tropes page [allthetropes.org] and be done with the list. Brain augmentation via computer implant as a Sci-Fi concept has been around for a long time, I don't know how he could have missed it. I hope it was just journalistic hyperbole, not actual ignorance on the part of a Sci-Fi novelist.
Good on him for having caught the vision anyhow, I wish him lots of success!
[1] novel by Donald Kingsbury, not sure how wide a following it has; it's one of my favorite books, though, so I'm listing it. Not sure what it says about me that my favorite Foundation novel isn't written by Azimov or authorized by his estate, but there you go.
"Space Exploration is not endless circles in low earth orbit." -Buzz Aldrin
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Saturday December 02 2017, @12:49AM (2 children)
TRIGGERED! Fuuuuuuuuuk! That movie was painful....ah man why did you have to put that... that name at the top. I have to lie down now.
(Score: 2) by darnkitten on Saturday December 02 2017, @02:08AM
Movie?
Oh, right--there was a movie...
I remember thinking at the time that Keanu Reeves was well-cast as Johnny, who was as generally annoying in the story as Keanu was in his other roles at the time. I also remember the SFX not being up to properly rendering the story, especially the arena. Something something dolphins. That's all I remember of the film.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by stormwyrm on Sunday December 03 2017, @05:32AM
Numquam ponenda est pluralitas sine necessitate.
(Score: 1) by Rich26189 on Saturday December 02 2017, @03:51PM
"Origin" by Dan Brown, just finished it. Maybe not as cool as the movies cited.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by tftp on Friday December 01 2017, @11:21PM (5 children)
Human-machine interface is too limited with two hands and, possibly, two feet for coarse control. People already think much faster than they type. Two eyes, focusing on a 5° of a sphere. Terribly slow propagation of signals. Control implants of this type will allow seriously disabled people to function properly. They also allow humans to operate complex machines where now a whole crew is needed to push thousands of buttons. Even driving a car would be much safer when you have instant 360° view.
A more advanced interface will allow connection to all senses, thus providing virtual reality with full immersion. This will be essential in many areas, and the games would be not among the most important. In a way, VR could be a first approximation of immortality, first by keeping the brain alive longer than the rest of the body, then by transferring the mind into the computer. Many humans, I think, will gladly accept the offer - especially when they get older.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 01 2017, @11:31PM
No we need the ability to do billions of calculations per second in our heads allowing superhuman feats.
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Saturday December 02 2017, @10:09AM (2 children)
Would you really want to live in a virtual reality that is in full control of someone else, down to the physical laws?
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 1) by tftp on Sunday December 03 2017, @12:22AM (1 child)
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Sunday December 03 2017, @08:00AM
Not even close.
I certainly do. And you do, too, you just don't recognize it.
They do, too, but they are limited by the physical possibilities. There's a reason why mass surveillance is only possible since we've invented modern means of computation and communication.
You think you are protected by the human-made laws? Those laws only protect you as far as a violation of them can be detected. With total control of the physical laws, you can do the most horrid things without leaving the slightest trace of evidence.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 02 2017, @11:11AM
If you think this is about man controlling the machine, you're really naive.