from the it's-easier-to-deal-with-computers-than-with-people dept.
The Do's and Don't's of Managing Programmers:
Why are some programmers such jerks?
Too many managers believe the problem lies with [the disgruntled programmer]. If he was a better employee, dedicated worker, or at least cared more, then this wouldn't happen. Right?
Unfortunately, no.
The first suggestions matter a lot
How you handle ideas from new programmers sends an important signal. Good or bad, it sets the stage for what they expect. This determines if they share more ideas in the future... or keep their mouth shut.Sure, some ideas might not be feasible in your environment. Some might get put on the back burner to be discussed "when we're not busy". Some ideas seem great, but they run against unspoken cultural norms.
No matter what the reason, dismissing or devaluing your programmer's ideas — especially in the first few months — is a bad move.
Damaged by all the naysaying, he'll try a few more times to present his ideas differently, aiming for a successful outcome. If he continues to feel punished, though, he'll realize that the only way to win is not to play.
Which is exactly what you don't want your programmers learning.
He will stop presenting ideas, asking to meet customers, and genuinely trying to understand the business.
Ultimately, it's a lose lose.
If you want programmers to become mere code monkeys, treat them like code monkeys.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @05:36PM (6 children)
It's all very well to suggest that you should totally take a programmer's suggestions on board.
Or a marketer, or a sales rep, or a janitor.
Ultimately, you simply can't implement them all, and you simply can't pander to everyone's ego.
If someone is going to become toxic and negative if you don't pander to their ego, that's great. You find someone who can handle it and get rid of the toxic one.
Programmers are in a special position in that their chosen technology allows them to build their things at home with minimal cost. If they want their ego stroked, they can stroke it themselves, on their own time.
If you want to employ people who will make your product new and shiny and awesome and stuff, then hire your programmers into your design team - or at least have design interludes or something.
You can always tell what companies want by how they act. If they say that they want 24/7 coverage, but they don't hire a 24/7 team, you know that they're lying - and likely exploitative about it. If they say that they want innovation but don't actually reward innovation, or try doing it, you know that they're lying. If they say that they want to delight customers, but they spend their time finding new ways of milking them for revenue while limiting all actions to the terms of the contract as narrowly interpreted ... yeah, you know where this is going.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @07:04PM (3 children)
Code is King.
If your ideas really are that good, then the most persuasive thing you can do is write some code that does the talking for you.
I mean, just look at this website; it's crap.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @07:20PM (2 children)
On an "agile" team where every breath or arm movement must have a documented story or task aassociated, this is impossible. If you create a proof of concept to illustrate your point without it being pulled into the current sprint, you've broken the rules and will be punished appropriately. If your idea is dismissed out of hand, you won't be given permission to created the proof of concept.
No working under the radar, all activity is held to account at the daily standup.
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @07:31PM (1 child)
Do the work you're told to do, but if you have conviction, then you'll do your own work, too.
What?! Are you implying I should work outside of paid hours?!
That's the kind of question a codemonkey would ask.
(Score: 0, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @07:39PM
Obligatory code monkey song:
https://youtu.be/kWrjYdD0Tg0 [youtu.be]
(Score: 2) by crafoo on Tuesday December 05 2017, @12:31AM
Insightful comment. Watch what the company does and what policies it enforces most regularly. What kind of relationships does it form with suppliers and customers. Who/which disciplines spend most face-time with customers. What tactics do they use to gain new business and keep existing business. Watch everything. Do not listen to a word they say. What they say is an indication of how they want to be perceived, not what they are.
People are pretty much the same.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 05 2017, @11:37AM
Code is King.
If your ideas really are that good, then the most persuasive thing you can do is write some code that does the talking for you.
I mean, just look at this website; it's crap.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @05:37PM (10 children)
Code is King.
If your ideas really are that good, then the most persuasive thing you can do is write some code that does the talking for you.
I mean, just look at this website; it's crap.
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @05:44PM (4 children)
On an "agile" team where every breath or arm movement must have a documented story or task aassociated, this is impossible. If you create a proof of concept to illustrate your point without it being pulled into the current sprint, you've broken the rules and will be punished appropriately. If your idea is dismissed out of hand, you won't be given permission to created the proof of concept.
No working under the radar, all activity is held to account at the daily standup.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @05:56PM (3 children)
Do the work you're told to do, but if you have conviction, then you'll do your own work, too.
What?! Are you implying I should work outside of paid hours?!
That's the kind of question a codemonkey would ask.
Sigh...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @06:02PM
Obligatory code monkey song:
https://youtu.be/kWrjYdD0Tg0 [youtu.be]
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Monday December 04 2017, @08:13PM (1 child)
What is this thing you keep going on and on about? Elaborate?
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @08:35PM
SN blocks repeated submission attempts and tracks IPs making spammy posts. The troll connects through TOR and runs into repeated errors since the TOR ip is frequently changing. Troll is consistently angry about it, probably making so much noise so they weaken their security measures, then said troll can REALLY get down to trolling.
Don't feed the troll, we've already covered the narrow breadth of their ideas and provided plenty of good feedback. The person is a troll, or at best a bit of an ideological nut who won't discuss, only evangelize.
Personally I think it has something to do with a specific racial dick type and a narrow worldview that won't let them come to terms with it!
(Score: 2, Informative) by khallow on Monday December 04 2017, @07:05PM (3 children)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @07:29PM (1 child)
The problem is certainly triggered by Tor more easily, but it's a fundamentally stupid design that is at the core of the problem.
I don't use the .onion domain. Why would I bother?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @08:37PM
So the eeeevil SN admins can't find your actual IP and geolocated you within a few hundred sq. miles. Perhaps they think their trollish comments will never be tied back to them, but I think the NSA would get a chuckle out of that!MySession
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 05 2017, @07:57AM
That's not a big, that's a feature - slows spam on Tor channel. Without it, robospamming is inevitable; with it, you gotta be a programmer to get around.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Tuesday December 05 2017, @09:45AM
> I mean, just look at this website; it's crap.
Yeah, sure. What part of the site does not work for you?
BTW
Noscript response to soylentnews.org: I may need js from domain soylentnews.org to work.
Noscript response to wired.com: I may need js from 4 sites, including adobe and google that can thus track me, to work
Phoronix.com, 6 sites, amazon included
Account abandoned.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by DannyB on Monday December 04 2017, @05:49PM
Programmers join organizations, but leave managers.
Sometimes programmers don't see the bigger picture. Some concerns are not purely technical. Try to resolve conflicts pro-actively. Everyone at work probably has the same goal: to maximize their bonus. That involves all the pesky details like keeping customers happy, releasing upgrades, fixing bugs, etc. In a conflict, two people often are talking past each other. Each with a different, legitimate concern. Once each sees the other's view, the result is generally a solution better than what either person was originally proposing. That said, sometimes the programmer is simply right and the other point of view is unrealistic or infeasible.
Sometimes programmers ARE jerks. No people skills but great machine skills. Hopefully those jerks can learn just enough social skills to be functional within a team and work toward common goals. If you find yourself in a conflict, it could be that you are looking at too small a part of the problem that you are focused on.
Again, sometimes concerns are not purely technical. For example. If I can use a high level language and beat my competitor to market by six months and only need 64 GB of memory, my boss's boss's boss will say it's cheap at the price. You can't buy back that kind of advantage. We're not trying to optimize for bytes and cpu cycles. We're trying to optimize for dollars. Programmers sometimes don't see that. Maybe you should write in a higher level language than C. Unless your work is device drivers, operating systems, microcontrollers, etc. Not using garbage collection in higher level software is trying to optimize for the wrong thing.
Programmers should and can earn the trust of management. Understand the business you are in. What is it that your company does? How do you make it better?
Why are programmers treated like crap while ignorant sales droids are treated like kings? Because of MBAs. MBAs see sales as the thing that brings in the money. A "profit center". Everything else is just a cost. Rent, desks, chairs, lighting are costs. Financial accounting is a cost. It doesn't bring in the money. Programming is a cost. MBAs look to cut costs. Programmers are in what is called a "cost center" where sales droids, no matter how dumb, are in a "profit center".
About Managers. Some managers are just bad. And shouldn't be managers and shouldn't be your manager. There are some good and some great managers. A good manager will shield developers from distractions. To some extent from things like budgets and schedules. A good manager will help you grow. I generally forego training for books instead.
Manager: how many unknown bugs are there, and how long will they take to fix?
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @06:04PM (16 children)
Your eternal hero Dick Bathroom Stall-Man wants you to work retail to pay for your programming hobby. All software must be free software and nobody should ever get paid for programming.
Thank you Dick Stall-Man for making programmers like me poor. I expect to die in poverty because I just want to code.
You know with free internet everywhere I can commit code to GitHub while I live under a bridge and eat SNAP food stamps and post to SoylentNews with a Lifeline Obamaphone.
Poverty is the future of programming and it will happen to you dear reader.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @06:40PM
They are called Trumpphones now.
(Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @08:39PM (14 children)
You're an idiot. Plenty of open source software receives real money. Support is huge, and then there are non-free aspects for Enterprise customers. Service is the new thing, not creating a single code base and updating it with bullshit every year just so you can charge more.
Go fuck yourself you shitty troll.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @09:11PM (7 children)
Well now let me see I am already an accomplished programmer and open source project creator and code contributor and I still get paid zero for my work and there are no jobs for me anywhere.
So tell me dear genius how I can get on the lucrative gravy train of free software. Tell me which trending projects do I need to fork on GitHub to get a coding job. Tell me how I can commit code to GitHub for free and still get paid in your service economy.
"Do something else." I can get a day job bagging groceries at a supermarket. There is your service economy.
Thanks for nothing. Go suck the dirty feet of your deified idol the saintly Bathroom Stall-Man.
(Score: 2) by FakeBeldin on Monday December 04 2017, @10:47PM (4 children)
Baloney.
A programmer I know has retained the services of a recruiter to hunt him a suitable boss. He's getting mildly annoyed with his current position, so he wants something better. And he'll get it - probably rather soon at that.
Either your idea of "job" doesn't match the job market, or your definition of "anywhere" is too limited.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @11:26PM (3 children)
So you say you know someone who retained exactly one recruiter and you claim there are jobs available.
You are a moron.
Recruiters call me every day. They match my experience and my skills against what employers say they want and nobody ever hires me. I have applied to thousands upon thousands of open job postings. The jobs do not exist.
Employers are liars. They post fake jobs. They hire no one. And they trick gullible fools like you into believing there are jobs to be filled.
You know nothing of the job market. It is as simple as that.
(Score: 2) by Mykl on Tuesday December 05 2017, @12:38AM
The jobs are there.
If you are getting that many rejections, I would suggest:
You are right though - there is more money in proprietary software. It's all very well for RMS to be a zealot about it - he's already rich.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 05 2017, @03:16AM
Perhaps they see the "MikeeUSA" email address on your CV and immediately throw it in the trash.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Muad'Dave on Tuesday December 05 2017, @01:28PM
Clearly someone is hiring - they're just not hiring you. Perhaps you should seek out assistance with your resume and/or interviewing style.
(Score: 2) by TheRaven on Tuesday December 05 2017, @02:21PM
Two things:
Does anyone use the software that you've written? Do they make money from it? If yes, then that's the easiest way to get paid. I've been paid to add features to open source projects that I created and others that I contribute to. As to not being able to find jobs, what skills do you have? I'm back in academia now and I get regular pings from people I know in industry to see if I have any competent students that they can hire, or if I know anyone more experienced looking for a job. There are lots of well-paid jobs out there for people with useful skills.
sudo mod me up
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 05 2017, @09:29PM
At least now we know why the resident AC troll is so pissy all the time! Get a job you bum!
(Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Monday December 04 2017, @11:13PM (5 children)
I disagree. You know, if you do two things (that you really ought to be doing anyway):
Then there's very little – or no – service required.
"The service economy" usually implies you've blown one of those two goals.
Basically, if you write good freeware and/or open source, and document it well, most (perhaps all) of the money you'll make will be of the nature of charitable contributions. And there won't be a lot of that, compared to the effort you'll spend, unless your software is crazy popular. I develop a free application that is basically in the top of the heap for what it is, with thousands of current users, been out there in various incarnations since 2011. Total income from contributions has been (as of today) $870.00 from 21 contributors. Luckily, I didn't write it to get income (I wrote it for me, really, I use it every day), but it'd be nice, of course. I do get lots of complements on both the application and the documentation. But you can't eat those.
TL;DR: "If it's not broken, you won't have to fix it; if you've already answered all the questions, you (or your FAQ) can just point to the answers."
There are exceptions, particularly when bitrot from Apple or Microsoft or Qt breaks the hell out of things that were fine before. The best way around that is to write your own code instead of depending on them, as much as is possible. Lots of work. Much less support required.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @11:35PM (1 child)
TL;DR: Programmers will starve.
Thank the blessed Stall-Man.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday December 05 2017, @08:10AM
Open source has nothing to do with your inability to get a job. Even if no-one would make their source code available, when there are too little jobs for too many code monkeys, some code monkeys will starve.
Give it a try: write a mobile app and drop it on the appropriate shop. Dont release the sources, see how much money you'll get from it. Good luck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by TheRaven on Tuesday December 05 2017, @02:23PM (2 children)
That assumes that the software already does everything that the user wants. This is basically only ever true for trivial utilities. Support (at least, the well paid version) doesn't mean helping the user use the software as written, it means adapting the off-the-shelf software that's working well for one use case to another specific to this user. That's what companies like IBM and SAP get paid big money for.
Think of it this way: software is basically free to duplicate, but a lot of effort to write. Do you think it makes more sense to have an economic model where people write the software for free and then try to make back the cost by selling copies, or one where users pay developers to write the software and can then make and distribute as many copies as they want?
sudo mod me up
(Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Tuesday December 05 2017, @11:11PM
Personally, I think it makes the most – but different kinds of – sense to write:
I think both are perfectly okay (and I do both.) I even think its okay to do GPL or some other restrictive license stuff if that's what you want to do. Whatever floats your boat. But the consequences tend ot be very predictable, because...
There isn't actually an economic overlap that generally applies.
If you want to make money, open source is about as likely a means to get you there as being a high paid basketball star or high paid movie star is just because you play basketball or like to act. Yeah, some very few people make it, but the odds very clearly say any particular individual almost certainly won't.
And as for those moments of fame that recent generations seem to covet so... you can't eat fame. And fans can be really annoying. So to me, it's worthless.
I can also say that the reason I got to choose to retire at 40 and got to do whatever I wanted since then was because I chose the closed source, for-fee software path, and my company made stuff people wanted to buy.
This has been my experience. Times do change, and perhaps it's all different now and I am just oblivious... but I'm not really seeing that in the market.
(Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Tuesday December 05 2017, @11:16PM
No, it doesn't. That's not support of individuals, that's evolution of the software. If your software doesn't evolve and grow, doesn't matter if it's free or for-fee; it's going to get left beside the road with all the other dead products.
I add features all the time. Sometimes on a daily basis. I'm careful not to obsolete what's already there, or break it (ya gotta love automated testing), but in my area, sure there are always more features to add. Doesn't mean the new features need support, or that they are support. It's just product growth. If you charge for new features, you might as well charge for old ones. Same thing – just hiding under an excuse.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by BsAtHome on Monday December 04 2017, @06:08PM (4 children)
Managing programmers is like herding cats. There is only real answer: don't.
There are different mindsets and thought processes at work in technically skilled people vs. the (classical) manager. Many managers make the simple mistake to suggest that they know the technical reasoning, whereas the programmer simply pops that balloon immediately (the classical top-down management approach). There is a great deal of honor in the technical skill set and that should not be violated (that honor goes straight to the heart and personality of the technical person).
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Monday December 04 2017, @06:51PM (1 child)
Seriously, if you provide the right motivation and rewards, it's not that big a problem [youtube.com].
(Score: 1) by pdfernhout on Tuesday December 05 2017, @01:38AM
Dan Pink on Motivation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc [youtube.com]
(Community/Fraternity is not mentioned there but is well known from other sources...)
The biggest challenge of the 21st century: the irony of technologies of abundance used by scarcity-minded people.
(Score: 2) by Nerdfest on Monday December 04 2017, @08:32PM (1 child)
I am totally stealing that quote.
(Score: 2) by BsAtHome on Monday December 04 2017, @10:41PM
You are welcome.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Weasley on Monday December 04 2017, @06:09PM (17 children)
Doesn't pretty much describe everyone everywhere? You start a new job... you're eager to make a name for yourself... your ideas are all shot down... you become content to rot in your cubicle with the rest of the drones who already got shot down.
(Score: 0, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @06:13PM (10 children)
You cocksucking pussy. You should become a malcontent and continue to criticize management until you are fired for insubordination.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @06:54PM (5 children)
You forgot to post the invalid form key lol
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @07:00PM (4 children)
I am not the invalid form key AC you stupid fuck. There are more than one of us and we all hate your guts.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @07:02PM (3 children)
The feeling is mutual :)
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @07:06PM (2 children)
I hate my guts because my guts are always hungry and eating is such a chore to do every day.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @07:52PM
Death will cure your addiction to food.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 05 2017, @03:28AM
Get one of those beer hats and fill it with Soylent*.
(*Other brands of nutrient-rich goop are available)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @06:55PM (3 children)
Therapy my friend, therapy.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @07:03PM (2 children)
I can't afford therapy after getting fired! Logic, you fail it!!
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday December 04 2017, @08:58PM (1 child)
Therapy and / or Drugs can be an effective treatment. Especially if your insurance plan covers prescription cyanide.
Alas, not all insurance plans are created equal. And thus the Comparable<T> interface.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @09:26PM
I don't have an insurance plan because I don't have a job! Logic, you fail it!!
(Score: 4, Interesting) by frojack on Monday December 04 2017, @06:21PM
Maybe on your first job.
Then you get your second, usually byt that time you've learned you don't know everything, and you do what you were hired to do while you figure out what is going on, and who is who, and then a year and a half later, you quietly sell your idea to your boss, maybe with a proof of concept, after dotting all the I's and crossing all the T's.
You let him take credit with the higher ups, because everyone in the shop will know where it really came from.
Everybody wins, you don't look foolish, boss loves you, staff realizes you do have a brain.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday December 04 2017, @06:44PM (3 children)
I guess this is the most appropriate place to observe, none of the above is exclusive to code monkeys. All of the same things happen to grease monkeys, turd monkeys, and all the other monkeys who get disgusted, and decide to just put in their time, and cash their paycheck at the end of the week.
You've got an idea. You're backed by industry standards, as well as the law. The idea MUST be implemented, or the company is in violation of the law. (more specifically, OSHA regulations) For years, you fight with your boss to have the idea implemented. One more opportunity to comply with the law presents itself, and the boss tells you, "We've got to save money!" So, you finally go over the boss's head, make your presentation to his superiors. The next day, your boss says, "I've got an idea!" and gives your presentation right back at you - almost verbatim.
You think I give that cocksucker any more ideas, hints, information, or anything else? No idea can be a good idea unless it's HIS idea. Egotistical cocksuckers don't even have any idea how much they are despised. If you work for someone like that, just go over his head, and report him whenever he's fucking up. Yeah, you feel like a snitch, but the dumbass created the situation.
(Score: 2) by etherscythe on Monday December 04 2017, @07:06PM (2 children)
And this assumes the, sometimes erroneous, idea that your boss knows what the hell it is that you do. When he thinks of you as just another cog in the machine, it's much easier to play along and just turn the wheels, even if you are capable of much more.
I feel that this is one of the biggest actual innovations of Elon Musk's various companies: he is known to be a "nanomanager", as in, taking micromanagement to the next level - he knows ridiculously low-level details, and your ass is in the hot seat if you screw something up, but he will also acknowledge you for your skills if he likes what you are doing, no matter where you are on the org chart. I wish more companies were like that - so much information is lost in translation upwards, and so many good ideas are mired in bureaucratic mediocrity.
"Fake News: anything reported outside of my own personally chosen echo chamber"
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Monday December 04 2017, @07:36PM (1 child)
Bill Gates apparently was like that too: Because he was a developer, he regularly reviewed application feature designs, thoroughly, and would pepper whoever came up with them with detailed questions until he'd stumped them. He might have been better off using his coding chops for quality assurance, though, amirite?
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @08:44PM
When the bugs are actually a secret feature there is no point in wasting QA time.
(Score: 2) by Yog-Yogguth on Monday December 04 2017, @11:19PM
At least anywhere I've worked, and those weren't particularly bad places, at least not all of them.
Then again, and without getting into anecdotes, doesn't it pretty much describe life itself in the parts of the world where most who post here live? Does for me. And society. At least for me there isn't a single positive feedback loop; they're all negative. I'm getting pretty good at ignoring them.
Thus the only winning move is not to play other people's "games" if one can avoid it, and it seems a surprising number of people manage to avoid most of it one way or the other.
Bite harder Ouroboros, bite! tails.boum.org/ linux USB CD secure desktop IRC *crypt tor (not endorsements (XKeyScore))
(Score: 3, Interesting) by frojack on Monday December 04 2017, @06:12PM (4 children)
TFS/TFA starts from the assumption that you should be accepting of new ideas from the last man hired....
You simply can not survive that way. You can't start taking direction from the last guy who walked in the door.
Every programmer starts from
1) bad mouthing the code quality
2) calling the last guy a clueless idiot
3) starts rewriting everything behind your back, (usually in a programming language your shop doesn't use )
... some time way later
354) finds out the last guy is still on staff
This is an old time worn lament, (screed really), that has been around since dirt. New kid wants to rewrite the world, in this week's language de jour, in fact, he has it 95% done already and its ready for production.
You only asked him to add one data element from existing sources to the bottom of a report, but he wants to parameterize the entire report, build the text and the data extraction from boiler plate text and code snippets stored in a database with a gui drag and drop layout interface, just so that he never ends up doing this menial chore again.
I've seen this dozens of times. I've probably done this when I was green. Once.
Do we really have to replow this field?
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @08:30PM (1 child)
You're against someone being motivated and then taking the 5% of that outcome that you need, now knowing just how much more the kid can do, even if no one asked?
Most people I work with have a hard time delivering that 5% the kid didn't do, let alone providing 90% more than anything asked of them, and you call it green?
Maybe he's green because he was idealistic. With that kind of output, his ideals seem to be better than most.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by choose another one on Monday December 04 2017, @08:50PM
I think you are missing the point that the 5% he didn't do inevitably comprises:
- 95% of the work
- 95% of the bugs, the testing and the QA
- must-haves for all the top 5% of customers, by account value
This is why knowledge and experience make more money than ideals.
Don't want to make money? - fine, don't take the paid job.
(Score: 4, Funny) by krishnoid on Monday December 04 2017, @10:09PM (1 child)
Well, it's a field, so about yearly, it would seem.
(Score: 3, Funny) by fyngyrz on Monday December 04 2017, @11:18PM
You made me furrow my brow with that one. It was seedy. But now that the idea's been planted, I can't seem to uproot it.
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @06:28PM
Code is King.
If your ideas really are that good, then the most persuasive thing you can do is write some code that does the talking for you.
I mean, just look at this website; it's crap.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @06:40PM (1 child)
70% sociopaths, 15% psychopaths, 14% narcissists 1% people that have at least minimal value proceed acordingly
(Score: 2) by JNCF on Monday December 04 2017, @10:02PM
Humans are a bit more complicated than that, Troll. Quoth Steinbeck:
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @06:41PM
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(Score: 3, Funny) by krishnoid on Monday December 04 2017, @07:00PM
Just depends on the personality -- some girls just wanna defun [sachachua.com].
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Monday December 04 2017, @07:54PM (10 children)
I've managed programmers before. How to manage programmers falls basically into 3 steps:
1. Hire smart and capable techies. Treat them like they're smart and capable, unless proven otherwise.
2. Give them a clear idea of what you want them to do, what standards you're expecting them to adhere to, and who the top tech people around are to ask questions.
3. As much as possible, keep out of their hair, and keep other people out of their hair, so they can do their friggin' jobs. If you want to monitor them more closely, just watch the code repository, or do a walk around to see what they're all up to.
4. The most counter-intuitive thing you have to do: In a crisis situation, or a delayed project, there will be an overwhelming call from the rest of the company to DO SOMETHING!!1!!1!. And when that happens, you have to be brave enough to say "My team was alerted right away and are working on it, I'm lending a hand when I can and making sure they're well supplied with coffee and such, I'll let you know the moment anything changes. The worst possible thing you could do at this time is distract them from what they're doing for any reason." And you have to enforce that: If you see a bigwig coming over to your team's area, you intercept them and offer to give a detailed report. Or if they want to get direct reports from the staff, you invite them to just sit in quietly on what the techies are discussing or forward them a (sanitized if neeeded) discussion log.
5. Offer some sort of path of promotion / raises. A lot of places utterly fail to do that for their programmers, and then wonder why they choose to leave as they gain more experience.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 5, Funny) by Thexalon on Monday December 04 2017, @07:54PM (4 children)
And, obviously, write your list, and then count, rather than the other way around.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Monday December 04 2017, @08:18PM (1 child)
I am not a programmer, but maybe you've just defined 3 as a variable?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @09:57PM
Should have used \LaTeX and let the computer worry about numbering.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @11:34PM
First you were awesome and now you're awesome multiplied by 2!
(Score: 2) by sjames on Tuesday December 05 2017, @03:54AM
We may have to make you sit in the comfey chair now.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by frojack on Monday December 04 2017, @08:27PM (4 children)
This.
Stop hauling them into endless meetings, and pointless sensitivity training and such.
A train of thought.
It's a livin' thing
It's a terrible thing to lose.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @08:42PM
The sensitivity training might be required due to how various laws are interpreted. If a business can show that they sent someone to "don't be stupid" training, even if , they then can tell the legal system later that they gave proper "how not to be stupid" training, it's not their fault the guy did something so dumb he's getting sued.
risk management/precautions like sensitivity training are not because they think you need it. it's because they may be held liable in the event one person does something profoundly stupid. It is sort of like a get out of jail free card for them, or at least one that minimizes the risk exposure.
They can fire someone more easily if they got the training and still did stuff the training said not to do, and shift a lot of the problem onto that person and avoid much of the financial implications.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Monday December 04 2017, @10:13PM (2 children)
Sensitivity training has a point, specifically to help save the company from being sued if you do something you shouldn't.
However, most meetings are pointless:
- You should know where the project stands from the code repository and the ticket tracking system. But if you need an in-person report, you can just go over to their desk and check in quickly.
- Design collaboration is best handled informally.
- Announcements can be an email.
- Praise is best given out informally anyways: Just don't be too quiet in cubicle land when saying things like "Yup, that function was absolutely brilliant and efficient, well done." or "You figured out a bug that had been annoying us for years, thank you!"
The main purpose of most meetings is posturing by people who owe their jobs to posturing rather than productivity.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Tuesday December 05 2017, @04:47AM (1 child)
I'd say you're lucky to have worked for departments and/or companies that actually want to accomplish useful things, and the coders were lucky to have a manger like you. I've often been in situations where there are several hidden agendas, and the office politics was vicious.
Had individual managers more concerned about such anti-social goals as elevating themselves by lowering everyone else, or empire building because they thought that would enhance their own job security. There are the quivering cowards who hate and fear anything they don't understand-- and there's a lot they don't understand. They force everyone to do only those things they understand, in the ways they understand. Closely related are the loudmouth managers who are in over their heads and know it, and are desperately trying to hide their incompetence by spending all day nitpicking about trivial details, thus preventing any discussion or work that is out of their depth, and incidentally making progress slow to a glacial crawl not that they care in the least about that. Another similar sort are the ones who feel threatened, and spend more time undermining the people they see as threats than doing honest work. There are the jealous ones who are fairly competent, but they walk around with a huge chip on their shoulders constantly trying to show everyone those genius engineers aren't so smart after all. There's the slave driving type who doesn't know what good work looks like, but who can tell when the employees look relaxed or stressed, and thinks that if they aren't stressed, aren't sweating blood, then they aren't working hard enough. Then there's the rich brat kind of manager who is super touchy about anything that could be construed as critical of him. Or a different kind of rich brat is the arrogant asshole who really thinks he is the only adult in the room and all the employees working under him are children who would starve if not for his magnanimity in allowing them the privilege of having a job working for his fantastic company, and for which they had better be grateful if they know what's good for them. There's the treacherous backstabber who, behind your back, blames you for every problem, real or imaginary, your fault or not, and makes the blame stick because you're the smart guy who should have known better.
In all those cases, reality eventually catches up with them. Either the dysfunctional people are rendered harmless, maybe kicked out, or maybe even turned around, becoming good employees, or the project ends in a huge, disastrous train wreck. Maybe the entire department is fired. Maybe the whole dang company goes under. If it does turn into a train wreck, "I told you so" will be very cold comfort.
I tried to ignore the politics, tried to let the code speak for itself, and trusted that the most meritorious way, be it mine or not, would win out. But in a dysfunctional office, that doesn't work. Now I think an essential part of the training for all engineers should be a class on office politics. First show them that they can't ignore it, can't expect to rise above it. It's essential to pay attention to the people around you, and learn as quickly as possible who the lying, treacherous, deadbeat fakes are and protect yourself from them before they do you dirty, perhaps frame you for something, or convince the boss you aren't a "team player" or a good fit, or whatever.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Tuesday December 05 2017, @10:49PM
Hey now, I wouldn't go that far! Just because I wanted to accomplish useful things didn't mean the company did. However, and this was important for me to notice, if you just quietly went ahead and did the useful thing without being directed to, and the result was that your work was going more smoothly and quickly, nobody was going to complain too successfully. If someone did try to complain, I could say something along the lines of "Yes, on my own initiative I implemented some of the best practices I've learned over my career, and as a result my department is 25% more efficient, allowing the company to complete projects more easily and thus better support the rest of the organization. And all that cost us was 1 sysadmin spending 4 otherwise spare hours. If you don't want me to take such steps in the future, please let me know."
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by Snotnose on Tuesday December 05 2017, @12:50AM (1 child)
You call a meeting to "communicate" your political goals. You call a meeting to show your superiors your worker bees are "informed". You call an hour long meeting to impart info that I could have grokked reading a 1 minute email. I'm under schedule pressure, you call a mandatory hour long meeting with 5 minutes of information, followed by "so Snotnose, how was your weekend?" You can't remember who is doing what, so you call meetings to remind you what $random_monkey is working on. Never mind if you ask Fred what he is working on I can give you detailed information. As well as Wilma, Barney, Betty, and Bam Bam. You're failure to remember WTF we're working on should not translate to me going home an hour later.
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
(Score: 2) by Snotnose on Tuesday December 05 2017, @01:22AM
Back in the day, when I was a manager, I did not have weekly status meetings. When I did call a meeting, if I had 10 minutes of info to impart the meeting lasted maybe 15 minutes. None of that "I booked this room for an hour, I'm gonna use this room for an hour". No, it was "we're done, back to work".
My worst boss story? I married a woman who worked weekends. She was sales, half her weekly income came from working weekends. She worked out a deal to get every other saturday off. All of my co-workers knew this.
So, suddenly this high priority project comes up that absolutely has to be done by Monday morning. That Saturday was my wife's every other weekend off. All my co-workers, including my boss, knew this. I busted my ass all week, going in early, getting home late (did I mention the wife got home about 7 PM, and I was responsible for having dinner ready?). I busted my ass, got my part done by Thursday. So friday rolls around, boss comes in and "you'll be here tomorrow, right?". "Um, no. I busted my ass getting my shit done, my wife has tomorrow off, fuck off". After some 20-30 minutes I was convinced to show up Saturday, because it was a "team building experience". We won't mention my part was done, I had nothing to do that really needed doing, and was just there for "team building". The rest of the team, including the boss, knew I'd been working 12-13 hour days all week to meet an artificial deadline, so I could have Saturday off with my wife.
Best part? Turns out the whole "team pulls together on Saturday" was my boss' idea of a team building exercise. Considering all the team knew how hard I'd worked to get Saturday off, plus the goal was a bullshit thing that didn't matter to anything, it pretty much backfired.
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.