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posted by mrpg on Wednesday December 06, @11:00AM   Printer-friendly
from the sure-why-not dept.

Germany's Interior Minister Wants Backdoors In Cars, Digital Devices

According to a new report from German newspaper Redaktions Netzwerk Deutschland (RND), Germany's Interior Minister, Thomas de Maizièr, has written a draft proposal in which he would like German cars, as well as other digital devices being sold in Germany, to grant police backdoor access. The minister is expected to present the proposal at next week's Ministry of Interior conference.

According to the RND report, the German minister would like intelligence agencies and police to gain "exclusive" access to cars, as well as digital devices such as computers, mobile devices, kitchen appliances, and smart TVs. The "back door" access would, in essence, allow the government to bypass the security protections some of these devices have. The police have been complaining that sometimes they can't install intercept equipment on some cars because their security systems are "too good."

Maizièr would also like cars and digital devices to have a "kill switch" the government can use at will to shut down certain devices, allegedly to stop cybercrime.


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Wednesday December 06, @11:14AM (3 children)

    by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Wednesday December 06, @11:14AM (#606087) Homepage Journal

    when some right chap stops all the cars on the Autobahn.

    --
    127.0.0.1 www.hosted-pixel.com # I Am Absolutely Serious
    • (Score: 5, Funny) by takyon on Wednesday December 06, @11:22AM

      by takyon (881) <{takyon} {at} {soylentnews.org}> on Wednesday December 06, @11:22AM (#606089) Journal

      Pay MDC $4,000 in Bitcoin or we'll drive your brand new car off this old cliff!

      Hijackware.

      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @12:08PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @12:08PM (#606100)

      More so if he only stops random cars ... :-o

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by ewk on Wednesday December 06, @03:30PM

        by ewk (5923) on Wednesday December 06, @03:30PM (#606159)

        no no... not random... just the brand that this politician drives... every time...
        even when he switches brands... just to drive the point home (yes... pun intended :-) )

        --
        I don't always react, but when I do, I do it on SoylentNews
  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by c0lo on Wednesday December 06, @11:22AM (11 children)

    by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday December 06, @11:22AM (#606090)

    According to the RND report, the German minister would like intelligence agencies and police to gain "exclusive" access to cars

    How does he imagines the access can be made exclusive remains a mystery.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @11:37AM (7 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @11:37AM (#606092)

      He is neither the first nor the last fool (political or business) to demand the impossible, then declare the finding of a solution a mere technicality to be solved by lowly engineers.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg [youtube.com]

      • (Score: 4, Funny) by c0lo on Wednesday December 06, @01:26PM (5 children)

        by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday December 06, @01:26PM (#606120)

        He is neither the first nor the last fool (political or business) to demand the impossible, then declare the finding of a solution a mere technicality to be solved by lowly engineers.

        Oh, don't I know it? Unfortunately, too well.
        But rather than exemplifying using a humorous sketch, here's how another recent real life example looks like [zdnet.com]:

        "The laws of Australia prevail in Australia, I can assure you of that. The laws of mathematics are very commendable, but the only law that applies in Australia is the law of Australia."

        Malcolm Turnbull
        Australian Prime Minister

        • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @01:54PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @01:54PM (#606124)

          Further evidence that "Turnbull" is aboriginal pidgin for "Ignorant Twat".

        • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @02:53PM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @02:53PM (#606147)

          If only Australian law applies in Australia, then surely also physical law doesn't.

          Maybe someone should suggest to him to make an Australian law that bullets are not allowed to hit the prime minister. And then convince him to demonstrate the superiority of Australian law over physical law by having people shoot bullets at him, demonstrating that those bullets certainly follow Australian law by avoiding him, instead of hitting him as physical law demands. ;-)

          • (Score: 4, Funny) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday December 06, @08:20PM (2 children)

            by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Wednesday December 06, @08:20PM (#606360)

            Guys...this is Australia. Where everything is poisonous, the toilets flush backwards, and everything is held on to the bottom of the Earth upside-down. The laws of physics are more like suggestions already.

            ...

            (Huge, HUGE /s for those of you who think I seriously believe Aussies are basically suction-cup-walking around like Wile E Coyote.)

            • (Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday December 06, @09:01PM (1 child)

              by takyon (881) <{takyon} {at} {soylentnews.org}> on Wednesday December 06, @09:01PM (#606398) Journal

              (Huge, HUGE /s for those of you who think I seriously believe Aussies are basically suction-cup-walking around like Wile E Coyote.)

              But the thing about the poison/venom is all too true. I've seen some videos.

              --
              [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
              • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday December 07, @12:57AM

                by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Thursday December 07, @12:57AM (#606501)

                But the thing about the poison/venom is all too true. I've seen some videos.

                Grossly exaggerated - the chance of dying in a car accident is astronomically higher than dying from venomous species.

                In my 15+ years of living in Australia, I only encountered some redbacks [wikipedia.org] - not nearly as dangerous as advertised (see "There have been no deaths directly due to redback bites since its introduction, however Isbister et al. have suggested patients for whom antivenom is considered should be fully informed "there is considerable weight of evidence to suggest it is no better than placebo").
                On a couple of occasions, I've seen some brown-snakes [wikipedia.org] - second most poisonous in the world, but aggressive only if it's cornered (offer it space to retreat and it will let you alone).

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 07, @07:58PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 07, @07:58PM (#606971)

        they are not as ignorant as they would seem. they know that other people will have access to their slaves, but the losses are within acceptable limits. people who want to act like these degenerates are just accidentally destroying any hope for humanity are just too scared to acknowledge the truth. you and your progeny are simply prey and property to them. you can bleat all you want. they'll just lick their chops at your fat curly haired asses.

    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday December 06, @12:55PM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday December 06, @12:55PM (#606114)

      Seems like we should label this Pol a Troll - but, sadly, I think it's a Troll in the stupid living under a bridge shaking down passers by sense, not one who is putting out a ridiculous statement looking for argument.

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @02:45PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @02:45PM (#606141)

      Another mystery is how the bad guys should be forced to buy those backdoored devices, when they can just get their devices from other countries whose governments are less than eager to allow the German government to control the devices sold in their countries …

    • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Wednesday December 06, @03:40PM

      by tangomargarine (667) on Wednesday December 06, @03:40PM (#606164)

      "Exclusive" access also kind of implies that the owners themselves won't even be able to access the car.

      2. restricted or limited to the person, group, or area concerned.

      --
      "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
  • (Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @11:44AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @11:44AM (#606093)

    VW Type 3 Squareback had a back door in the '60s.

  • (Score: 2) by inertnet on Wednesday December 06, @12:06PM (7 children)

    by inertnet (4071) on Wednesday December 06, @12:06PM (#606098)

    Nobody wants this but that has never stopped a politician. When elections are coming, they just turn into Santa Claus and promise to make the world a better place. After the elections they start showing their contempt for their voters again.

    Also his name ends with an 'e' so there are some typos in TFS.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @12:12PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @12:12PM (#606101)

      We need these maggots to publicly pledge that they will not support this kind of madness. No pledge? No vote.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @12:23PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @12:23PM (#606107)

        Good luck finding a non-hilarious number of voters who, at election time, can tell you the correct number of choices in that vote, much less what each of their platforms was 4 years ago and how they (didn't) act in the time between.

        And I don't get me started about the mental resolve of foregoing the certain prospect of a golden future (as promised) just because the candidate made a single, negligible, stupid small mistake a long time ago ...

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @02:04PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @02:04PM (#606126)

          just because the candidate made a single, negligible, stupid small mistake a long time ago ...

          If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @01:45PM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @01:45PM (#606123)

      > Nobody wants this

      What? Nobody wants safety? Nobody wants security? Nobody wants a Better Life?

      The fact is that everybody wants it.

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by inertnet on Wednesday December 06, @03:10PM (1 child)

        by inertnet (4071) on Wednesday December 06, @03:10PM (#606149)

        Okay, so make it voluntary and see how many people will opt-in to having their whole life monitored. Or you can organize a referendum about it.

        We have the technology for a real democracy where everybody could vote on every political issue. But it will never be applied because those in power will never give up that power to the people.

        • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday December 06, @04:43PM

          by DannyB (5839) on Wednesday December 06, @04:43PM (#606199)

          Simply making something evil be offered as voluntary is not enough to get everyone to opt in to it. You MUST offer them something of value. Like a paper coupon for some worthless crap. Or even a coupon code made of 100% recycled electrons.

      • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Wednesday December 06, @03:38PM

        by tangomargarine (667) on Wednesday December 06, @03:38PM (#606162)

        Sometimes good intentions aren't worth the tradeoff.

        --
        "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
  • (Score: 2) by bradley13 on Wednesday December 06, @12:07PM (4 children)

    by bradley13 (3053) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday December 06, @12:07PM (#606099) Homepage Journal

    Haben diese Idioten keine Ahnung? Und auch keine kompetente Berater?

    Sorry: just asking if these idiots are totally clueless? And why don't they have competent advisors?

    --
    Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @12:16PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @12:16PM (#606105)

      Yes, they really are clueless.

      Competence (own or advisory) is only cursorily coupled to re-election, therefore it is a waste of resources (time, money, influence)

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @01:57PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @01:57PM (#606125)

      This is idiocy by design! Good German design!

      Martin Bormann is chuckling in Hell at this. Lunacy loves company.

    • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @02:49PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @02:49PM (#606144)

      What makes you think he isn't doing exactly what his competent industry advisors have instructed him to do. The displayed behavior isn't a bug, it's a feature, it's following the script laid out by security theather industry brochures.

    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday December 06, @05:14PM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday December 06, @05:14PM (#606213)

      Advisers are an un-necessary hindrance in the political world - just look at the great Orange.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @02:26PM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @02:26PM (#606135)

    Seriously? Have a kill switch on a car in order to stop "cybercrime"? Just hope that your car is not found to be part of a botnet while you're driving at 200 km/h …

    • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday December 06, @02:49PM (1 child)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday December 06, @02:49PM (#606143) Journal

      So, driving to fast for conditions, were you? We'll just add a speeding ticket to the list of charges. What do you mean, "What do you mean, to fast for conditions"? Well, obviously, as a cybercriminal, you should have known about the condition of your kill switch, accessible only by authorized police.

      --
      #Hillarygropedme
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @04:17PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @04:17PM (#606181)

        It is getting to this in Aus. Soon you will have to plug in an insurance box just to get insurance if you are under 25.. unless you are rich

  • (Score: 2) by isostatic on Wednesday December 06, @03:17PM

    by isostatic (365) on Wednesday December 06, @03:17PM (#606152) Journal

    So much for coupés.

    Police already have access to cars - they can use a hard object to break the window, essential in rescuing trapped animals etc.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Snospar on Wednesday December 06, @04:08PM (3 children)

    by Snospar (5366) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday December 06, @04:08PM (#606173)

    Well done Solyentils! An article about invasive German surveillance and the comments section hasn't been locked out by Godwin's law. Nothing has even come close.

    I'm proud of you all.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @06:41PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @06:41PM (#606269)

      Godwin's Law is reserved for the Nazi wannabes in the US/UK, Germany did a pretty good job of telling the real Nazis to fuck right off.

      • (Score: 3, Touché) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday December 06, @08:22PM (1 child)

        by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Wednesday December 06, @08:22PM (#606362)

        Has it, now? Because this sounds a lot like the East German Stasi turned up to 11.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 07, @08:16AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 07, @08:16AM (#606712)

          Has it, now? Because this sounds a lot like the East German Stasi turned up to 11.

          But that was the communist state, not the Nazis.

          If anything, the AfD is closer to the Nazis than anything else in Germany.

  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @04:13PM (6 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06, @04:13PM (#606178)

    ...then these measures will not be required

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by turgid on Wednesday December 06, @05:02PM (4 children)

      by turgid (4318) on Wednesday December 06, @05:02PM (#606208) Journal

      Don't be daft. They'll keep inventing new bogeymen as required.

      --
      Don't let Righty keep you down.
      • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday December 06, @07:30PM (3 children)

        by DannyB (5839) on Wednesday December 06, @07:30PM (#606316)

        [_] Thoughtcrime (not yet available, but coming soon!)
        [x] Think Of The Children!
        [x] Terrorists
        [_] Eviodoers
        [_] Drug lords
        [_] War lords
        [_] Hippies
        [_] Communists
        [_] Axis of Evil

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by turgid on Wednesday December 06, @08:53PM (2 children)

          by turgid (4318) on Wednesday December 06, @08:53PM (#606387) Journal

          We have Thoughtcrime here in the UK already. They might not officially charge you with a crime, but they will take you away for questioning at the most inconvenient time and put you on a list of people to watch.

          There is a growing canon of literature known as "terrorist propaganda" that one dare not accidentally stumble upon lest one get added to one of these lists. You see, the problem is, some vulnerable people randomly become terrorists and it's difficult to predict. So what they do is use a very blunt instrument - if you look at something you might be going to turn into one eventually, who knows - they take you away and talk to you. Presumably this is to scare you out of becoming a terrorist (yes, quite).

          Now we have a collection of "forbidden literature" (banned books) that normal intelligent people with critical thinking skills may not read. Who is custodian of this list? Who decided what you may or may not look at? Do you feel lucky?

          Now that we are not allowed to use our own critical thinking skills and judgement, we just have to take it as a matter of faith that some things are bad, very bad, very exceedingly bad indeed. We need to be careful to avoid the forbidden literature. We just have to accept and do as we are told, and perhaps be glad that if we are wrongly inconvenienced, interrogated or even imprisoned that ultimately it's for our own good, and especially the good of our country. I'm a patriot. So are you. We have nothing to fear!

          The forbidden list may keep on growing and we may never know... We may be under surveillance and we may never know. I have nothing to hide! I'm stark naked under my clothes, after all.

          Does wikipedia have an entry for gunpowder? Does it list the ingredients? I don't know, and I daren't look. You're not allowed to search online for how to make explosives. You will be taken away for a chat, so the story goes.

          I really don't want to find out. I haven't the time to waste. PC Plod has no sense of humour, very poor social skills and a very authoritarian sense of judgement.

          Posted not as AC because, you know, free speech and irony.

          --
          Don't let Righty keep you down.
          • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday December 06, @09:08PM (1 child)

            by DannyB (5839) on Wednesday December 06, @09:08PM (#606403)

            Wow.

            I thought that was what the US was working toward. But you've already got it? Wow.

    • (Score: 2) by Anal Pumpernickel on Thursday December 07, @10:51AM

      by Anal Pumpernickel (776) on Thursday December 07, @10:51AM (#606753)

      We should not sacrifice our liberties even in the face of actual threats. So these measures are only "required" if you possess an authoritarian mindset.

  • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday December 06, @07:27PM (1 child)

    by DannyB (5839) on Wednesday December 06, @07:27PM (#606313)

    Some cars already have back doors, called hatchbacks.

    Some phones have a back door in order to replace the battery.

    Computers?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 07, @01:25PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 07, @01:25PM (#606778)

      And people have a back door, so politicians and corporations can $£%^ them in it.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 07, @09:22AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 07, @09:22AM (#606730)

    But I thought the Nazis lost the war?

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