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posted by Fnord666 on Thursday January 04 2018, @12:48AM   Printer-friendly
from the eat-more-Bambi dept.

Deer are regularly hunted across the United States, but some people pay exorbitant prices for imported deer meat:

Wintertime is a special time of year at Cafe Berlin, located just a few blocks from the Capitol building in Washington, D.C. This is when they roll out their menu of wild game, such as deer, wild boar, and quail. Regular customers have come to expect it. "They ask, weeks in advance, 'When does the wild game menu start? When does it start?'" says James Watson, one of the restaurant's chefs. And the star of that menu is venison. The restaurant serves venison ribs, venison loin, even venison tartar. It's food that takes your mind back to old European castles, where you can imagine eating like aristocracy.

You won't see venison in ordinary supermarkets. At Wagshall's, a specialty food shop in Washington, I found venison loin selling for $40 a pound. This venison comes from farms, usually from a species of very large deer called red deer. Much of it is imported from New Zealand.

Yet there's a very different side to this luxury meat. Less than two hours drive from Washington, Daniel Crigler has a whole freezer full of venison that he got for free. Crigler's home in central Virginia is surrounded by woodlands full of white-tail deer. For Crigler, they are venison on the hoof. And he loves hunting. "I love the outdoors. I love being out. But I also like to eat the meat," he says, chuckling. It's pretty much the only red meat he eats. And as he shows off the frozen cuts of venison in his freezer, this crusty man reveals his inner epicurean. "That's a whole loin, right there," he says. "What I like to do with that is split it open, fill it full of blue cheese, wrap it up in tin foil and put it on the grill for about an hour and a half."

And here's the odd thing about this meat, so scarce and expensive in big cities; so abundant if you're a hunter in Madison County, Virginia. Hunters like Crigler kill millions of deer every year in America, but the meat from those animals can't be sold: It hasn't been officially approved by meat inspectors. Also, the government doesn't want hunters to make money from poaching. Yet hunters are allowed to give it away, and many do. As a result, venison occupies a paradoxical place in the world of food. It's a luxury food that turns up in notably non-luxurious places.

Related: Arby's is Selling Venison Sandwiches in Six Deer-Hunting States
Deer in Multiple U.S. States Test Positive for Chronic Wasting Disease, Leading to Restrictions


Original Submission

Related Stories

Arby's is Selling Venison Sandwiches in Six Deer-Hunting States 57 comments

The Christian Science Monitor reports

Nashville residents who dropped by their local Arby's beginning [the week of November 2] could try the restaurant's limited-time-only venison, or deer meat, sandwich, which the fast-food chain debuted in commemoration of the beginning of deer hunting season.

[...] Many of the Arby's locations that are selling the sandwich are located in more populous or urban areas rather than rural areas where one might expect people to hunt. But Evan Heusinkveld, the president and CEO of the Sportsmen's Alliance, tells The Christian Science Monitor that the urban population is exactly the group that should have the opportunity to try venison.

"Many people who live in the country either have their own freezer of venison or know somebody who hunts", he says, "Selling to city dwellers is exactly what the hunting community would love to see."

While Arby's venison is sourced from farm-raised deer in New Zealand due to USDA rules against serving wild-harvested meat, it will still give customers a taste of what they're missing. The sandwich features a juicy venison steak, crispy onions, and juniper berry sauce.

Arby's venison sandwiches will be offered in just 17 locations in six states (Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, and Georgia) during deer season, with the promotion ending the Monday after Thanksgiving.

So far, the company says the sandwich has been a big hit.


Original Submission

Deer in Multiple U.S. States Test Positive for Chronic Wasting Disease, Leading to Restrictions 39 comments

Multiple states are preparing measures to monitor chronic wasting disease in their deer populations:

Despite rain and snow, thousands of Michigan hunters dragged their deer to check stations to be tested for chronic wasting disease — a condition that comes from the same family as "mad cow" disease.

"I was amazed that we had 150 deer come through the check station on the first day of gun season in Montcalm County," said Chad Stewart, Michigan Department of Natural Resources deer specialist. "Given the Wednesday opener and the bad weather, I was blown away."

Dollars generated from deer licenses and hunting-related purchases bring in millions in matching funds for habitat restoration and endangered species. They also help fund the testing for CWD, a demon of a disease that has been identified in 11 free-ranging Michigan deer and is feared to be on the verge of crossing over to humans. It just might alter the way we hunt forever.

"When they look back on the history of deer management in Michigan, these years will be considered pivotal to the culture of deer hunting," said Stewart. "I don't want people to think it's a death sentence for deer management. For now, there will be changes and additional restrictions. Change is hard to adapt to."

Montana drafting plans for hunt to monitor deer disease

Chronic wasting disease has been slowly spreading among deer, elk and moose in the Rocky Mountains, including Montana, Wyoming and Colorado. Symptoms include weight loss, listlessness and drooling.

Washington will restrict the import of deer carcasses from Montana.


Original Submission

Studies Raise Concern Over Chronic Wasting Disease from Deer Jumping to Humans 28 comments

Caught my eye, because venison is rather tasty — the report from Tech Times:

Chronic Wasting Disease was first observed among Colorado deer in 1967. Since then, the neurological disease has spread to 24 U.S. states and Canada.

There have been no reports of human contamination so far, but a recent Canadian study has once again sparked worries that the disease could be contracted by humans.

In a long-term study at the University of Calgary, 18 macaques were exposed to the disease in different ways, including injecting infected material straight to the brain; feeding infected meat; skin contact; and intravenously.

Bottom line:

A report states that to date, three out of the five macaques fed with 5 kilograms (11 lbs.) of infected deer meat over a period of three years tested positive for CWD. In humans, such diet is equivalent to eating a 7-ounce steak each month.

What's even more alarming is that two of the three monkeys fed with deer meat exhibited symptoms of the disease such as anxiety, ataxia, and tremors.

One macaque shed one-third of its body weight over a six-month period, while two animals that had infected matter injected into their brains also developed CWD.

Good advice from a scientist:

"No one should consume animal products with a known prion disease," said Stefanie Czub, a prion researcher at the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, who presented the partial findings of the study in Edinburgh, Scotland last May 2017.

Previously: Deer in Multiple U.S. States Test Positive for Chronic Wasting Disease, Leading to Restrictions

Related: Venison: The Luxury Red Meat?


Original Submission

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  • (Score: 0, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @01:04AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @01:04AM (#617450)

    Venison is a lean meat and I preferred it to beef back when I was still a meat eater.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:29PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:29PM (#617726)

      Fascinating. Do you have a blog where I can read more?

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Thursday January 04 2018, @01:41AM (22 children)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday January 04 2018, @01:41AM (#617456) Journal

    freezer full of venison that he got for free.

    TAANSTAFL

    That meat wasn't free. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJa8kxPfPoU [youtube.com] Jeff Foxworthy may or may not be an authority on the subject, but he does nail it pretty well.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by takyon on Thursday January 04 2018, @01:51AM

      by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Thursday January 04 2018, @01:51AM (#617459) Journal

      Freedom ain't free!

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    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:06AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:06AM (#617480)

      Figures you're a TANSTAAFLer. Heinlein got tedious hammering that shit over and over. A visionary for his time, but these days he's a bit dated and pretty misogynistic. Heinlein: A for effort, C for spiritual evolution.

      • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:41AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:41AM (#617497)

        Fuck you and your mysogenism you fucking cretin.

      • (Score: 2, Touché) by khallow on Thursday January 04 2018, @06:11AM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday January 04 2018, @06:11AM (#617548) Journal

        Heinlein got tedious hammering that shit over and over.

        Some people just can't figure that shit out. And they often end up behind levers of power. So it bears repeating.

    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:39AM (16 children)

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:39AM (#617495)

      When we lived in Houston, there was butcher near our house who did "deer processing." After you've managed to kill and transport your deer to them, they charged roughly the price of cheap hamburger to process the deer for you. Now, the venison steaks you get are much better than hamburger, but it's no cheaper per calorie than just buying the burger meat.

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      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:44AM (5 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:44AM (#617501) Journal

        Ya know, that's kinda funny. We used to have a deer processed for about 35 or 40 dollar. These days, there are few butchers nearby, and the ones who are left charge a good bit more, like 80 to 100 dollars. Seems we have a shortage of butchers. Need to import some from somewhere. :^)

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:46AM

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:46AM (#617502)

          The Foxworthy piece is really good, but if you want the most expensive meat on the planet, we've gotta talk about offshore fishing....

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          🌻🌻 [google.com]
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @05:13AM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @05:13AM (#617526)

          You would hire butchers to deal with your meat? What kind of suburban hunters are you? We used to just eat the liver raw, with only a bit of bile for seasoning, and jerk the rest for the coming hard times when the alt-right might think they actually knew what they were doing. But we had jerked venison, so they were total posers.

        • (Score: 2) by Wootery on Thursday January 04 2018, @09:38AM

          by Wootery (2341) on Thursday January 04 2018, @09:38AM (#617595)

          You mean it's gotten dearer?

          (I'll show myself out, time to runaway.)

      • (Score: 2) by Kromagv0 on Thursday January 04 2018, @02:17PM (9 children)

        by Kromagv0 (1825) on Thursday January 04 2018, @02:17PM (#617672) Homepage

        Sounds like a kind of crappy processor. The one I go to charges $1.09/lb hanging weight (headless, skinned, gutted, and the lower legs trimmed off) for butchering into steaks, chops, and roasts and if you want them to just grind and freeze the trimmings it is $0.29/lb, or if you just want the trimmings back as is they will give you a bag with them at no charge. What you get back is the best cuts double wrapped and flash frozen and a what ever you wanted done with the trimmings, I just get it ground and frozen as I will blend it at home when I make things if I want. That is the same price they charge for processing of any large animal like deer, sheep, cattle, bison, elk, or pigs. For small things like chickens, turkeys, quail, pheasants, rabbits, etc. it is a flat fee for what ever type of animal it is.

        I usually get about 60-80lbs of meat a year from the one deer I shoot so I end up paying about $140-$180 for processing and to me it is worth it as even though I could butcher a deer it would be a real hatched job and it seems that it would be a huge waste of really good meat, that and the processor's flash freezer does a much better job of freezing it than even my deep freeze would do. So it works out to about $2/lb which is cheaper than even the worst burger I have seen for sale. Even including the cost of my deer rifle (it was an inexpensive rifle) in the mix for only one year it is still cheaper than store bought meat. As the processor is right off the route I drive to and from my lake property (I hunt there as well) so it isn't like I am going out of my way as I just drop it off on my way home and pick it up on my way home the next time I am up at my lake.

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        • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday January 04 2018, @02:28PM (8 children)

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday January 04 2018, @02:28PM (#617677)

          Oh, don't kid yourself... did you buy a different/uprated vehicle to go hunting in? Even if not, what are you spending in fuel, maintenance, and depreciation for the trip out to the hunting site? Do you hunt in street clothes? Not even special boots?

          The trip to get to the fish is what makes offshore caught so expensive, in real terms. Especially if you consider the boat to be purchased for the purpose...

          That butcher was in Seabrook, stone's throw from NASA, hell and gone from deer hunting country and one of the more gentrified neighborhoods of South-East Houston. I'm sure there were better deals out there, this one just happened to be 3 blocks from our house.

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          • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Kromagv0 on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:25PM (7 children)

            by Kromagv0 (1825) on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:25PM (#617724) Homepage

            The only special hunting cloths I own is a $10 blaze orange sweatshirt, the $15 blaze orange hunting mittens, and a $3 blaze orange stocking cap. The fact that those things seem to last at least10 years before they need to be replaced basically means their cost is $0 per lb of deer meat. The rest is just the regular warm weather gear one needs when living in Minnesota and hunting boots are way warmer than most regular winter boots, have better traction than most winter boots, cost the same as a good pair of regular winter boots, and seem to last just as long. I don't own a special vehicle for hunting, just my sedan and the looks one gets when you have a trailer with a deer on top of it being towed by a BMW sedan (may daily drive) are priceless. Fuel is cheap at about $30 round trip, but I am frequently up at my lake property throughout the year so it isn't a special trip, I just ensure that my trip up there in November happens to coincide with deer hunting. I am up there at least once a month to check on things, enjoy the property, camp, cut and split wood, etc. so I just ensure that the November trip lines up with deer hunting. I might actually care about depreciation but when I get rid of a vehicle it no longer runs and I get $150-$300 from the junk yard and they pick it up so it that doesn't matter. Besides when you drive a vehicle with well over 200,000 miles on it depreciation doesn't really matter to begin with. Even ignoring that how much additional maintenance is needed and how much depreciation is 250 miles actually? Unless it is the very first 250 miles off the dealer lot it isn't much.

            Hunting doesn't have to be expensive it is just that lots of people choose to make it expensive. Even the gear I carry in my backpack isn't specific to hunting, well the disposable game cleaning gloves are but those you can get for $1 for 4 pairs.

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            • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday January 04 2018, @04:59PM (6 children)

              by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday January 04 2018, @04:59PM (#617787)

              I do wish we could get to our camp in central Florida more easily, it's a 3-4 hour drive for us.

              Don't kid yourself, that 250 miles, especially pulling a trailer, likely amounts to ~$120 in total costs, between fuel, maintenance, insurance, and depreciation. If your BMW was $20K and you're getting 160K miles out of it before you sell it for $4K, that's still 0.10/mile in average depreciation. Throw in 16 oil changes, 3 sets of tires, a few brake services, coolant changes, basic timing belt, water pump, alternator, and maybe not in Minnesota but A/C service, and that's another 0.05/mile even if you do the work yourself. Presumably you also pay for insurance - which gets up-charged if you're driving more than 6000 miles per year, a difference of $125 per year for 8 years is another $1K cost against those 160K miles...

              All in all, you're in a good place and getting good value for your hunter's meat... but I'd wager you're rarer than 1%, even among just the US hunter population - especially if you throw fishermen, and posers who get the gear but never really harvest anything into that mix.

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              • (Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Thursday January 04 2018, @05:27PM (4 children)

                by hemocyanin (186) on Thursday January 04 2018, @05:27PM (#617816) Journal

                There are other aspects of hunting that can't be reduced to a dollar figure. I'm not hunting or fishing to save money -- the moorage for my boat is $250/month which would buy more crabs than I eat in a whole year -- but the ones I catch taste better (no BS, I think the commercial ones sit in tanks too long starving and consuming their fat reserves till they taste bland whereas the ones I catch and eat five or six hours later go into the pot with all that goodness intact).

                Personally, I started hunting two years ago because I wanted to be responsible for the entire process of eating meat -- it had been more than 10 years that I hadn't eaten any mammals for ethical reasons. When I decided to eat mammal again, I figured I should completely understand the full meaning of what eating meat entails. I'm glad I did that way. I don't eat much mammal, but when I do, I do it with full consciousness of what it means.

                And lastly, if we do have to reduce everything to dollars, hunting made me a good poker player. Since hunting season ended at the end of October, I've won over $2000. Hunting made me much more patient and that has carried over into my play. Previously, I'd probably average a small loss playing poker but I'm cashing in about 75% of the small tournaments I'm playing in now (even with lousy card streaks), and consistently winning in cash games, or losing small when I lose. Hunting made me patient.

                • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Thursday January 04 2018, @06:55PM (2 children)

                  by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday January 04 2018, @06:55PM (#617872) Journal

                  Someone further up the thread already mentioned that prey animal's diet affects the taste. The most detestable commercially raised meat animal has to be rabbit. I had eaten rabbit most of my life, off an on, with the seasons. After joining the Navy, we had rabbit on the menu one day. I waited in line, got my tray full of goodies, sat down, bit into some soapy tasting, overly tender stuff, and spit it out. Commercial rabbit never eats grass, or whatever other shrubbery they might find available. Instead they eat those little pellets of Gods-know-what with speckles of stuff that kinda look like corn, darker speckles that might be sugar cane, and many other speckles that no one can identify.

                  Commercially raised catfish don't quite taste the same as wild catfish, but at least they don't taste like soap.

                  Turkey? Mmmmm - depends on how they were raised. SOME commercial turkey tastes pretty good. Others, not so much.

                  All ruminants have the best flavor if they are grass fed. Or, if fed grain, they should only get about as much grain as they would have found in nature - which is very, very little over their lifetime. Sheep, especially, fetch a higher price if they are grass fed.

                  Your crabs may or may not taste odd because of diet. Or, maybe you nailed it, with not being fed for their final days.

                  • (Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Thursday January 04 2018, @08:11PM

                    by hemocyanin (186) on Thursday January 04 2018, @08:11PM (#617912) Journal

                    The commercial crabs are wild caught but they can end up in a tank for a very long time if you go buy them live. Otherwise they are cooked, frozen, and packaged but it is literally impossible to preserve crab well. It's either fresh or no-way, at least for me.

                  • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday January 04 2018, @09:28PM

                    by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday January 04 2018, @09:28PM (#617972)

                    As far as I'm concerned, farm raised fish taste like mud - especially tilapia. Ever been to a fish farm? It's not mud, exactly, that they live in, more like a broth of 60% water, 10% mud, 10% algae, and 20% fish poop.

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                • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday January 04 2018, @09:25PM

                  by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday January 04 2018, @09:25PM (#617970)

                  Yep, after sitting 20' up on an uncomfortable perch in freezing temperatures for 8 hours, most anything else is fast-paced.

                  We do the same for the fish we catch, would be boating anyway, but the fish are fresher and much better tasting than market bought. Plus, we mostly fish inshore, so we catch smaller, younger fish with much less toxin concentrated in them.

                  And, we've never taken an animal from our camping land - we lease the land to beekeepers who have had the right to hunt for the last 3 years, and unless they're lying to me, they've yet to take one, either. We've seen a huge doe many times since they've had the lease, our beekeeper told me "we don't take the girls..." seems truthful enough with the big one being as visible as she is.

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              • (Score: 2) by Kromagv0 on Thursday January 04 2018, @07:40PM

                by Kromagv0 (1825) on Thursday January 04 2018, @07:40PM (#617898) Homepage

                Bought the car for under $10K. I have already put over 130,000mi on it in the 4.5 years I have owned it (I have a long commute), and got it with 80,000 miles on it. I plan to hopefully keep the car until it has 500,000 miles or more on it, and I don't sell off vehicles that are derivable, only sell them off to the scrap yard because they are so worn out and broken that they aren't worth fixing and no longer run.

                Given that I have a long commute and regularly put on close to 30,000 miles a year on that car the little additional driving doesn't increase the insurance cost.

                BMWs don't have timing belts they have chains that are lifetime, unless you really do something dumb, so that big expense is removed.

                They do have weak factory water pumps that tend to fail at about 140,000 miles but for about 1/3 of the price of the OEM one you can stick a much better stewart pump in them that are a lifetime pump which I did and that was before I acquired my lake property.

                Brakes on that car seem to last closer to 150,000 miles as it is a manual and unlike so many I actually know how to drive stick correctly (I can even drive a non-synchro manual without issue as well). Also as it is all highway except for the first mile and last 2 so the brakes don't get any real use heading up there and back over that 250mi round trip.

                Being a manual also means that the huge area for failure has been eliminated which is the automatic transmission, especially when towing which murders automatics.

                Even if I didn't own the lake property and go hunting I would still be doing things like changing the coolant every 2 years, changing the brake fluid every 2 years, changing the oil in the diff every year, changing the oil in the manual gear box every year so costs don't change. Granted the additional trips up there over a year do require another oil change but a filter is $8 for that car and I buy oil in bulk when it goes on sale so even with 7 quarts of a good synthetic that is only another $40 for the oil. AC service isn't difficult either and a can of R-134a can be had for about $7 here and even then my experience is that lack of use is what causes issues more than usage.

                Suspension and tires are the only things that really do experience additional wear but the suspension gets more damage from the crappy pot-holed streets in the winter than by trailering. For tires I seem to go through them at a rate of a set a year as I like to go into winter with a good amount of tread instead of just serviceable tread to squeeze that last 5,000 mi out of them.
                I even put a K&N filter in it not for the very slight increase in performance but because over the long term that lowers the costs as it is washable and reusable.

                I try to be really smart with my money and vehicles as I grew up poor so I got to learn how to fix things, take care of things, and spot good deals.

                There is the correct gear and then there is what people think they need which is a shit ton of other stuff for hunting. A good gun, some ammo, the correct amount of blaze orange, warm cloths, a good pair of warm boots, a flash light, compass, map of the area, a box of waterproof matches, a lighter, small first-aid kit, a smaller pocket knife, a large knife or hatchet, some rope, and a backpack are all that is needed when you are out. I do have a hanging stand I bought years ago at a pawn shop for $30 and that included 4 climbing sticks but that isn't necessary but is nice as it gets you up out of the line of sight of the deer and gets your stink up away from them as well. I don't have special camo cloths and don't buy into the fancy gear like game cams, call, rattles, scents, scent killer, etc. I find if you know an area, learn about deer, and learn how to spot their signs you don't need all that other stuff. Look for scrapes, rubs, food sources, water sources, understand the topology, changes in cover, scat, prints etc. as it makes up for lack of gear when out hunting.

                Then there is the challenge and fun of the hunt. After a day of hunting back at camp you can sit and shoot the breeze with your buddies.

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    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:38PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:38PM (#617731)

      I can't tell if the video is spoof or real. It's right on the line, masterful satire.

      If he's serious, then he spends $8200 every season in order to shoot deer. "Am I having fun?"... ok let's see, you're wearing camo, you buy a new rifle and 4x4 every season. Yeah, you're having fun. I spend $8200 on booze every season ;) Am I having fun???

  • (Score: 3, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @01:51AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @01:51AM (#617458)

    Soylent Red is Bambi!!!!!

  • (Score: 4, Informative) by physicsmajor on Thursday January 04 2018, @02:05AM (16 children)

    by physicsmajor (1471) on Thursday January 04 2018, @02:05AM (#617464)

    This is, in essence, mad cow disease but in deer. It's spreading. Can't be diagnosed except on pathology examination of a brain, so it's undoubtedly beyond the known range.

    Hasn't crossed over to humans yet that we know, but prion diseases are terrifying. Personally, I have no intention of consuming venison full stop.

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @02:58AM (10 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @02:58AM (#617475)

      You'd probably have to go vegan, or at least not consume mammals. Apparently they feed chicken bits of cows too sometimes, don't you love "efficient agriculture practices"?

      https://www.cdc.gov/prions/bse/case-us.html [cdc.gov]

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:33AM (9 children)

        by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:33AM (#617490) Homepage Journal

        It's not so much expensive rather regular chicken is absurdly cheap

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        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:42AM (7 children)

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:42AM (#617498)

          Friends of ours born in the 1920s remarked how chicken used to be a special treat, rare dish to splurge on for a holiday or something. And, by the 1990s, it was just everyday fare, like rice and beans used to be.

          Factory farming does make cheaper product, but to call it chicken is like calling an LCD Casio watch a Rolex.

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          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:54AM (4 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:54AM (#617505)

            Quartz-driven casio is infinitely better than mechanical rolex toy.

            • (Score: 4, Touché) by bob_super on Thursday January 04 2018, @06:34AM (3 children)

              by bob_super (1357) on Thursday January 04 2018, @06:34AM (#617561)

              No, it's not.
              Try: The Casio is a handful of orders of magnitude more precise at providing accurate timing.

              The Rolex toy is many orders of magnitude better at conveying information about disposable income, or propensity to buy status things one can't really afford.

              • (Score: 2) by Rich on Thursday January 04 2018, @01:09PM (1 child)

                by Rich (945) on Thursday January 04 2018, @01:09PM (#617650) Journal

                Lobster used to be the "rat of the sea". Or even "cockroach"...

                We have this communist politician in Germany, Mrs. Wagenknecht. Despite being communist, her first husband was an entrepreneur (since, she changed over to a rather greasy socialist). And some day - some animals are more equal -, she was seen at some sort of cocktail party, enjoying her lobster.

                Confronted by the press and outraged party comrades, the response was: "We shouldn't have problem with enjoying lobster. My political work pushes towards everyone being able to enjoy lobster."

                Now, my very humble personal opinion is, that if she succeeds at that attempt, the poor lobsters would be considered "rats of the sea" again. Or maybe they'd be not so poor in that case, because that would save them from being boiled alive...

                • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday January 04 2018, @02:02PM

                  by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday January 04 2018, @02:02PM (#617667)

                  Lobster would be "rats of the sea" if they weren't so scarce. New Zealand, Belize, Everglades National Park in the Florida Keys and maybe a tiny handful of other places around the world have demonstrated that marine no-take zones (not weak preserves that still allow "limited" harvesting), will allow lobster numbers to recover to pre-harvested levels - big lobster that were becoming extremely rare do regrow and they reshape the ecosystems, cleaning up detritus from the bottom.

                  Incidentally, lobster numbers in the no take zones get so high that they migrate out into the open season areas - if it weren't for this migration, the lobster season in the Florida Keys would have had to be severely shortened decades ago, driving commercial prices even higher than they are.

                  --
                  🌻🌻 [google.com]
              • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday January 04 2018, @01:49PM

                by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday January 04 2018, @01:49PM (#617662)

                And, in this context, serving a chicken dinner in 1929 was more about conveying information about disposable income - if not status things, and affordability is in the decision making process of the consumer. Many consumers (and Casino owners) "legally" decide to purchase items beyond their financial means then accept the risk of bankruptcy. In the 1920s, it's likely more than one server of chicken dinners could have avoided insolvency by serving potatoes instead.

                There is also a difference in quality and durability. My grandmother bought me a Rolex she "couldn't afford" when I received my Masters' degree, did the same for my dad 20 years earlier - and never required a financial bailout in her whole 98 years of life. I wore that daily, stocking shelves at a grocery store, doing concrete demolition and construction work, SCUBA diving, etc. and it still looks as good and functions as well as it ever did now 30 years later. 100 casios would have died attempting to do the same.

                --
                🌻🌻 [google.com]
          • (Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Thursday January 04 2018, @07:54AM (1 child)

            by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Thursday January 04 2018, @07:54AM (#617581) Homepage Journal

            This has led to a common problem with broken leg bones.

            It's gotta be rough being a factory chicken.

            --
            Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:46PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:46PM (#617737)

              That's why - to protect the chickens - we lock them in scaffold cages too small to stand up in.

        • (Score: 2) by dak664 on Thursday January 04 2018, @05:15PM

          by dak664 (2433) on Thursday January 04 2018, @05:15PM (#617801)

          Indeed, cheap chicken will have been a major poster child for our age:
          http://www.resilience.org/stories/2018-01-04/unearthing-the-capitalocene-towards-a-reparations-ecology/ [resilience.org]

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @05:15AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @05:15AM (#617527)

      We just call it "chronic Runaway" disease, now. Tends to make its victims post on subjects they know nothing about. Bad enough when it was just deer doing it.

      • (Score: 2) by Wootery on Thursday January 04 2018, @09:40AM

        by Wootery (2341) on Thursday January 04 2018, @09:40AM (#617596)

        World first as AC wastes everyone's time with vacuous whining. More at 11.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @05:52AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @05:52AM (#617542)

      It can be diagnosed, just not definitively. It has clear symptoms.

      And the prions in question reside in neural tissue, not muscle. As long as you steer clear of the spinal cord and brain, you're fine.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 05 2018, @06:25PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 05 2018, @06:25PM (#618427)

        Muscles are innervated.

        The whole body is innervated.

        Cerebral-spinal just has the highest neural concentration. Every nerve is neural. That's literally what the word means.

        If this prion crosses to all nerves it's Still A Problem. What prionic load is enough to start replication? A single prion? Or is a population necessary like for biologics?

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by Kromagv0 on Thursday January 04 2018, @02:50PM

      by Kromagv0 (1825) on Thursday January 04 2018, @02:50PM (#617690) Homepage

      CWD is something that while bad can be dealt with. As it spreads by close contact through saliva it is very rare in wild populations unless there are piles of food available for a bunch of them to be eating at nose to nose. The outbreaks usually occur near a cattle farm, elk farm, or deer farm where wild deer sneak in for food and the commercial farm has diseased critters. The other places where outbreaks usually happen are where people are actively putting out piles of food for the deer or are baiting deer.

      When an outbreak happens the best thing to do is to really reduce the deer population as this stops the spread. You then need to have a monitoring program for several years to test all the deer near by to see if it really eradicated. There was a CWD outbreak in either a commercial deer or elk farm somewhat near where I hunt this year. So all deer taken in all of the areas nearby (probably well over 500 square miles) were tested. All of those tests came back negative but the testing program in that area will continue for at least another year.

      --
      T-Shirts and bumper stickers [zazzle.com] to offend someone
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @02:05AM (25 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @02:05AM (#617465)

    A story of an artificial shortage. No, quality beef is much better tasting than venison. In fact, wild boar meat tastes better than venison.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @02:37AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @02:37AM (#617469)

      Boar meat is a treat. It's bit more gamier, but lean and much better flavor.

      Venison? Bushmeat, literally.

    • (Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:07AM (8 children)

      by fyngyrz (6567) on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:07AM (#617481) Journal

      ...quality beef is much better tasting than venison.

      Tastes vary. Widely. That said, I agree with you.

      To me, venison tastes like toasted dog poop. The only meat worse than venison I've had the displeasure of trying is antelope, which is an incredible insult to my palette.

      A lot of beef isn't very appealing to me either, though; it takes a good cut and a skilled cook to being beef into my "hey, that's good" zone. Luckily, one of those lives with me. :)

      I keep hoping the whole artificial meat thing will bring a consistently delicious, non-cow-harming beef "cut" to my table, but... nothing so far. I'm beginning to think I won't see it before I shuffle off this mortal coil. That, AI, human space travel outside low earth orbit, and a working fusion system.

      OTOH, I lived through the sexual revolution, so... win.

      • (Score: 2) by takyon on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:20AM (4 children)

        by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:20AM (#617486) Journal

        I'm beginning to think I won't see it before I shuffle off this mortal coil. That, AI, human space travel outside low earth orbit, and a working fusion system.

        That's why we need anti-aging first. And avoid prion diseases in the meantime.

        --
        [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
        • (Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Thursday January 04 2018, @05:11AM (3 children)

          by fyngyrz (6567) on Thursday January 04 2018, @05:11AM (#617524) Journal

          Anti aging would be good if you're young-ish. Aging reversal is the only thing that would help me. :)

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @05:54AM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @05:54AM (#617543)

            Initial stem cell aging reversal treatments:

            Pros: you're a younger person.
            Cons: you're a different younger person...

            But I suppose if you have the same memories, would you be bothered enough that your preferences gradually change to be closer to those of the donor stem cells?

            Even the "you" at 2 years old from a DNA perspective might be significantly different from the you at 70 years: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/brain-dna-changes-through-life-2378009.html [independent.co.uk]
            https://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/51118/title/Thousands-of-Mutations-Accumulate-in-the-Human-Brain-Over-a-Lifetime/ [the-scientist.com]
            https://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/50700/title/Advancing-Techniques-Reveal-the-Brain-s-Impressive-Diversity/ [the-scientist.com]

            Which "you" would you want to drift towards if you had the choice? Your 2 year old self? Your 20 year old self? Some top athlete? ;)

            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday January 04 2018, @06:18AM

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday January 04 2018, @06:18AM (#617551) Journal

              But I suppose if you have the same memories, would you be bothered enough that your preferences gradually change to be closer to those of the donor stem cells?

              Is this a trick question?

            • (Score: 4, Informative) by takyon on Thursday January 04 2018, @06:27AM

              by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Thursday January 04 2018, @06:27AM (#617556) Journal

              Cons: you're a different younger person...

              But I suppose if you have the same memories, would you be bothered enough that your preferences gradually change to be closer to those of the donor stem cells?

              Don't repeat this meme (which you partially rebutted in the next line).

              You're a different person cellularly and mentally week to week. You're accumulating mutations somewhere in your body's cells every millisecond [madsci.org]. Mentally, your memory is very fuzzy. For most people, the further back into the past they try to recall, the more they "edit" or remove the memory. Witness testimony is considered unreliable because aside from a few photographic/savant types, human memory really is quite imperfect. I was about to say "bad", but "imperfect" could be a good thing since your brain can "remix" old memories to come up with new and better ideas.

              Neurogenesis [wikipedia.org] already happens in your brain throughout life, and every other part of your body doesn't matter (might as well lop those limbs off and replace them with advanced prosthetics).

              I cringe whenever this is used as an objection to anti-aging (you seem to have brought it up more as a curiosity).

              Initial stem cell aging reversal treatments
              [...]
              Which "you" would you want to drift towards if you had the choice? Your 2 year old self? Your 20 year old self? Some top athlete? ;)

              Theoretically, your youngest self would have the "least mutated" DNA, which would presumably be better. It should be possible to get the almost entirely unmutated genomic sequence by sequencing multiple cells and just comparing them. Once you have that, edits could be made to correct mutations you were born with or do other optimizations. Then the digital sequence can be synthesized and used in synthetically created stem cells (if that is the approach you are going with). Because there may be other treatments for aging that end up working better than stem cells. Such as nanobots.

              --
              [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
      • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Thursday January 04 2018, @02:50PM

        by Phoenix666 (552) on Thursday January 04 2018, @02:50PM (#617692) Journal

        A lot of people groused when Ted Turner started raising bison on his ranch (they were mostly cattle ranchers concerned their herds would contract bucellosis that bison carry), but I'm glad he has popularized bison meat because I can't have my beloved beef any more.

        I'm a little surprised you dislike venison so much when the animals you can get out where you are taste so much milder than the ones west of the Divide.

        --
        Washington DC delenda est.
      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Goghit on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:52PM (1 child)

        by Goghit (6530) on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:52PM (#617741)

        "Tastes vary. Widely."

        Agreed.

        "To me, venison tastes like toasted dog poop."

        -15 Flamebait/Tasteless Troll

        Well, unless you're talking about venison that was gut shot or not properly bled out and carefully eviscerated immediately, in which case I'm back to agreeing with you. Too many hunters are gormless twits about this.

        I'm a little biased. I grew up in a subsitance hunting environment and didn't taste beef until I was four years old. Apparently I asked my parents why this deer meat tasted funny. And now here I sit, planning to expand the lentil/dried bean section of the 2018 garden.

        • (Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Friday January 05 2018, @05:55PM

          by fyngyrz (6567) on Friday January 05 2018, @05:55PM (#618416) Journal

          -15 Flamebait/Tasteless Troll

          Meh. It's an opinion. We all have them. Super-taster (high density taste buds) here. Most foods make strong, complex impressions on me. I reserve the right to share those opinions - and I'm not trying to be offensive, just telling it like I see it.

          But anyway, what part of "To me," did you fail to absorb? I didn't say it tasted like dog poop to you.

          I'm a little biased.

          So are we all. That's the thing about taste. Of all kinds.

          And now here I sit, planning to expand the lentil/dried bean section of the 2018 garden.

          Are you leaning towards these instead of meats, or just using these more in other ways?

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:56AM (8 children)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:56AM (#617506) Journal

      You have to specify what beef, actually. I can have one cow slaughtered and processed by an expert butcher - and you'll say it's horrible. Another cow, of a different breed, processed by a rank amateur butcher, you'll swear it's the best meat you've ever eaten. An old mossy longhorn compared to a Brangus? There really is no comparison.

      For me, the average venison ranks with medium good quality beef. Which, of course, still doesn't compare well with some good Brangus. If the deer meat has been processed by some dumb redneck, who has no idea how to handle it and cut it, then yeah, it's poor quality, and you don't enjoy it much.

      Of course, the cook makes all the difference in the world. An excellent chef/cook can take poor quality meat, and make it good. And a crappy cook can ruin the best of meat.

      In short, you can't generalize like that. Venison is good meat, it all depends on how you treat it. Kinda like women, I think - treat it poorly, it will treat you poorly in return.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @05:39AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @05:39AM (#617537)

        Just goes to show, Runaway, you should never eat what you fucked. Just saying.

      • (Score: 5, Informative) by Kromagv0 on Thursday January 04 2018, @02:33PM (3 children)

        by Kromagv0 (1825) on Thursday January 04 2018, @02:33PM (#617678) Homepage

        You also forget that how the deer is killed also affects the quality of the meat. I have had some really bad venison over the years, mostly from my cousin who is a bad shot. He frequently does gut shots and his deer run for hours. As he hunts in the same area I do and brings his deer to the same processor, and I have cooked some of his deer meat and mine the only difference is in the kill and his are frequently bad ones. All that adrenaline and running when you are trying to find the thing only makes things worse. Then there are the people who let the deer lay in the bed of a truck or hang in an over warm garage for too long and it starts going south as well.

        Yes the cook's and the butcher's ability affect the taste but there are also other factors that have a big impact too like kill quality, how it was handled before it got processed, and what the deer was eating.

        --
        T-Shirts and bumper stickers [zazzle.com] to offend someone
        • (Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Thursday January 04 2018, @02:44PM (2 children)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday January 04 2018, @02:44PM (#617685) Journal

          That earned you a heaping serving of +1 informative.

          And, suggest to that cousin that if he shoots a dear, and it runs off, he should just sit down, and chill for at least fifteen minutes before pursuing. That won't make the kill any cleaner, but if the deer isn't being actively pursued, it should either lie down, or go to water. Once he lies down, or gets in the water, he ain't getting back up. That beats walking 20 miles through snow, underbrush, and bog, tracking blood spots.

          • (Score: 4, Informative) by Kromagv0 on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:50PM (1 child)

            by Kromagv0 (1825) on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:50PM (#617740) Homepage

            That is what I keep telling him and that he should also spend a bunch more time at the range. I hate helping him retrieve his stupid deer as they do run all over god's green earth. Even though my deer run it isn't far (40 yards max and that was with the biggest deer I ever shot) and then they tip over dead. I can see where they are and the blood trail to them that looks like someone dumped a bucket of red paint on the ground. I always go for the clean unobstructed shot to the vitals and get them through both lungs, or the heart and a lung depending on how they are facing.

            --
            T-Shirts and bumper stickers [zazzle.com] to offend someone
      • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Thursday January 04 2018, @02:46PM (2 children)

        by Phoenix666 (552) on Thursday January 04 2018, @02:46PM (#617687) Journal

        Those are good points. I'd add that with venison in my experience the bigger factor is what the deer ate. Whitetail from the mountains who've been eating pine bark and the like taste much gamier than their cousins from east of the Divide who've been eating the same stuff the free-range cattle have been eating.

        I have never had venison cooked in a smoker, though. I can see that changing the experience. Has anyone here?

        --
        Washington DC delenda est.
        • (Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Thursday January 04 2018, @10:23PM

          by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Thursday January 04 2018, @10:23PM (#618015) Journal

          I've had various smoked venison products over the years. They've varied in quality, just as smoked beef or pork or whatever products do. Then again, I'm generally a fan of venison, and extra flavor (sometimes called "gaminess") is a matter of fashion in cuisine. A few generations ago, meat was often not just aged but often underwent "mortification" where it would basically rot for a while, then be trimmed of mold, etc. The intensification of flavor including gamey flavors was often prized.

          Today, in the era of boneless skinless chicken breasts as the standard "mild" (aka "flavorless") meat, it's unsurprising that wild game is often avoided by many. (To be clear, I'm not passing any judgment here: people like what they like, and there are things that are too gamey for me too.)

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 05 2018, @01:17AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 05 2018, @01:17AM (#618142)

          Smoked backstrap done right has to be one of the most outstanding things I've ever eaten. To echo what others have said, whoever butchers the deer needs to know what they're doing (Read a guide!) Excess silver-skin can easily ruin the flavor in my opinion. I've eaten venison primarily for the last decade due to my Father being an avid hunter in an area with less restrictions for hunting. If you do it right, its not "gamey" Yes, its lean, yes its delicious, and Bambi's smoked backstrap melts in your mouth.

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @04:02AM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @04:02AM (#617507)

      went to a small banquet in Switzerland about 10 years ago. The restaurant only served unusual meats -- your choice of venison, boar, horse and several other animals not normally eaten in N. America. Also, several organ meats that we don't normally see. The Swiss thought they were doing something really special for us, but we were mostly unimpressed with the flavors, maybe some are an acquired taste?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @05:23AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @05:23AM (#617533)

        > maybe some are an acquired taste?

        We call that "learning to love masochism".

        • (Score: 3, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday January 04 2018, @07:28AM

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Thursday January 04 2018, @07:28AM (#617573) Journal

          Organ meats are awesome. I grew up surrounded by Cantonese people so I'll eat almost any part of an animal aside from nervous tissue and a few other bits. Properly prepared, tripe or heart or liver or even properly-washed intestine will make you go back for seconds and thirds. Less wasteful, too.

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
      • (Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Thursday January 04 2018, @08:19PM

        by hemocyanin (186) on Thursday January 04 2018, @08:19PM (#617920) Journal

        Probably yes. After I resumed eating mammals after a 10 year hiatus, I have never been able to like the taste of pork. It just comes off as disgusting. Deer liver though -- that's amazing.

    • (Score: 2) by TheRaven on Thursday January 04 2018, @12:38PM (1 child)

      by TheRaven (270) on Thursday January 04 2018, @12:38PM (#617636) Journal
      My mother lives in the south of France where boar are increasingly a problem. They're large and aggressive. They used to be culled pretty effectively by hunters, but the older hunters are gradually dying off and few young ones are replacing them (let's face it, unless you particularly enjoy killing things, hunting boar isn't that much fun). They're probably going to end up with boar-hunting drones or something equally silly and likely to lead to a robot apocalypse.
      --
      sudo mod me up
      • (Score: 1, Troll) by VLM on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:18PM

        by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:18PM (#617717)

        Google indicates at least 50:50 odds Muslims cannot eat wild boar and France is converting to a Muslim country so wild boar hunting is going to be a pest control thing in France in the future rather than a food source.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:18AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:18AM (#617485)

    i hunt every year, white tail. venison is the best food i have ever tasted. fry it in butter, make jerky, etc.

  • (Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:24AM (15 children)

    by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:24AM (#617487) Homepage Journal

    There are too many. They have no natural predators there. they were introduced around 1900.

    They kill 50 people each year because they're to dumb to stay off the roads.

    The meat tastes like very lean beef

    --
    Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
    • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:32AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:32AM (#617489)

      Moose vs newfies, hm...

    • (Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Thursday January 04 2018, @05:21AM (8 children)

      by fyngyrz (6567) on Thursday January 04 2018, @05:21AM (#617532) Journal

      There are too many. They have no natural predators there.

      Yes, because an invasive species killed the predators. That species was humans. We did it without much (some would argue, "any") thought for follow-on consequences. And now the natural balance is upset.

      They kill 50 people each year because they're to dumb to stay off the roads we're too dumb to build safe roads.

      It's not like you'd expect them to understand roads, is it? I mean, come on. Those deaths are entirely our own responsibility.

      The meat tastes like very lean beef

      It most certainly does not taste like beef — lean or otherwise — to me. I mean, it's lean meat, but it's not like lean beef. Lean beef has a completely different flavor. Not great — no lean meat is very good — the fat content is a large component of the overall taste. Note a remark in this thread where someone said they like to fry it in butter... add fat to improve flavor, pretty much a given for most people's tastes.

      • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Thursday January 04 2018, @02:39PM (7 children)

        by Phoenix666 (552) on Thursday January 04 2018, @02:39PM (#617682) Journal

        Moose is tough. Really fibrous. Closer to bear meat in that respect than beef. I would choke it down in a stew that had been cooking for a very long time, but not as a steak or other cut of meat. The upside is that if you can stomach the stuff there's a whole lot of it per animal. They are big.

        --
        Washington DC delenda est.
        • (Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Friday January 05 2018, @04:23PM (6 children)

          by fyngyrz (6567) on Friday January 05 2018, @04:23PM (#618367) Journal

          Moose is tough. Really fibrous.

          The answer to that might be sous vide [amazon.com] cooking.

          We do it with beefsteaks, and the results are outstanding. Relatively tough steaks come out tender and delicious; afterwards we subject them to a (very) quick browning in a frying pan with some various sauce components to out taste, and the result is as good as anything I've ever tasted. The process really makes the meat tender.

          The downside is you have to think ahead - sous vide takes hours - the upside is there's no turning or worrying and the process produces very consistent results even with quite a large variance in total time - as long as you've been cooking for enough (or IOW, a minumum) time.

          You can get any degree of doneness you like with 100% predictability. It's the only way we cook steaks any longer. Anyway, I find it very worthy. You might as well.

          • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday January 05 2018, @04:50PM (5 children)

            by Phoenix666 (552) on Friday January 05 2018, @04:50PM (#618383) Journal

            We got a sous vide for Christmas and I'm still trying to figure out how to use it for best results. I've tried chicken, pork chops, and pork tenders (can't have beef anymore) and it turns out tender, but seems dry. I've tried browning it at the end, and not, and the former is definitely better but still a bit dry. Any tips or tricks to know about?

            I have been using ziplock bags because we don't have a vacuum-sealer and online people say ziplocks are fine. I've tried salting the meat in the bag, and not. I've also tried doing the cooking time exactly, and doing it longer.

            I've read some people raving about how amazing the results are with sous vide, but we haven't achieved that yet. Or, maybe it's a measure of how badly most people cook?

            --
            Washington DC delenda est.
            • (Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Friday January 05 2018, @05:21PM (2 children)

              by fyngyrz (6567) on Friday January 05 2018, @05:21PM (#618397) Journal

              My lady (the cook) is not up and about yet, but when she graces me with her presence, I'll post a specific reply about any process tips.

              can't have beef anymore

              Curious - what's the issue?

              • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday January 05 2018, @07:26PM (1 child)

                by Phoenix666 (552) on Friday January 05 2018, @07:26PM (#618454) Journal

                Steak is my favorite. One day, out of the blue, I woke in agonizing pain after eating a steak for dinner the night before. I went into my doctor, who diagnosed gout. Sure enough, thereafter every time I ate beef in whatever form, the crippling pain returned. Lamb and buffalo, thankfully, don't cause it, but lamb is expensive and buffalo is difficult to get in New York.

                --
                Washington DC delenda est.
                • (Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Saturday January 06 2018, @04:11AM

                  by fyngyrz (6567) on Saturday January 06 2018, @04:11AM (#618616) Journal

                  That's very unfortunate... our sympathies (Deb's here too ATM)

            • (Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Friday January 05 2018, @06:26PM (1 child)

              by fyngyrz (6567) on Friday January 05 2018, @06:26PM (#618429) Journal

              Okay, she says:

              • If you vacuum seal (she says you should, ideally), freeze before you cook, so that vacuum sealing doesn't suck the liquid content out.
              • Make sure it doesn't float: There are water displacement devices for this, and some sous vide cookers have holders or weights.
              • She says a lot of people put a pat of butter - about a tablespoon - with the meat; particularly if it's lean
              • Play around with cooking times a bit, and temperatures - we like just past rare, so for beef, at about 135ºf.

              She also cooks mushrooms this way. She puts them, Worcestershire (powder, not sauce, from Amazon... vacuum sealers will suck liquid right out of the bag, so everything needs to be either frozen or dry) at 185ºf for about an hour. They come out crazy good.

              No matter how well we've vacuum sealed mushrooms, as they cook, they release air, so they want to float, so you have to really weigh them down.

    • (Score: 2) by TheRaven on Thursday January 04 2018, @12:40PM (3 children)

      by TheRaven (270) on Thursday January 04 2018, @12:40PM (#617639) Journal

      They kill 50 people each year because they're to dumb to stay off the roads.

      For those that haven't seen a moose, they heavy and just tall enough that if a car hits them it will break their legs and cause the body to fall onto the driver. It might not break all of their legs though, so if you're not killed by being crushed, you're then killed by a huge flailing animal kicking in all directions and eventually finding the windscreen with one of its hoofs.

      --
      sudo mod me up
      • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:56PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:56PM (#617743)

        For some reason, this post made me think of Trump.

        • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday January 04 2018, @06:35PM (1 child)

          by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Thursday January 04 2018, @06:35PM (#617863) Journal

          I don't think it is to the flailing and kicking its hoofs part yet.

          --
          People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
          • (Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Friday January 05 2018, @04:25PM

            by fyngyrz (6567) on Friday January 05 2018, @04:25PM (#618370) Journal

            I'm sure Trump has the best hoofs. Not tiny ones, either. Definitely not tiny. You're going to be so proud of his hoofs. And that stuff Bannon is saying about his hoofs... total nonsense.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Thursday January 04 2018, @02:36PM

      by Phoenix666 (552) on Thursday January 04 2018, @02:36PM (#617680) Journal

      People I talked to in Gros Morne National Park on the west coast of Newfoundland last summer said they'd love to eat moose but the Canadian EPA is always prowling, waiting to pounce on hunters. They told me a story of a ranger who'd set up a two day stake-out in a random field to catch moose hunters. Well, he did wind up catching one, a friend-of-a-friend from his same small fishing village of 50 people.

      I'd say that Newfoundland doesn't have a moose problem, it has a government problem.

      --
      Washington DC delenda est.
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @06:54AM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @06:54AM (#617567)

    Uninspected meat is free. Inspected meat is expensive. Does this mean you should you be able to buy uninspected meat? Hell no.

    • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:58PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @03:58PM (#617744)

      Let the free market sort it out. Customers who die won't buy from you again so meat quality will naturally improve.

    • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday January 04 2018, @06:33PM

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Thursday January 04 2018, @06:33PM (#617859) Journal

      Sony CEO in 2005 about the Sony Rootkit: (parphrased) What's the big deal? Most people don't even know what a root kit is.

      touché from some Groklaw poster about red meat: What's the big deal? Most people don't even know what salmonella is.

      --
      People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
  • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday January 04 2018, @06:30PM

    by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Thursday January 04 2018, @06:30PM (#617858) Journal

    The other red meat.

    Much better than the green kind from which its source code was derived.

    --
    People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @07:52PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 04 2018, @07:52PM (#617903)

    "but the meat from those animals can't be sold: It hasn't been officially approved by meat inspectors. Also, the government doesn't want hunters to make money from poaching. Yet hunters are allowed to give it away, and many do."

    god forbid people be able to feed/support themselves off their own land/leased land.

    • (Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Friday January 05 2018, @04:32PM

      by fyngyrz (6567) on Friday January 05 2018, @04:32PM (#618373) Journal

      god forbid people be able to feed/support themselves off their own land/leased land.

      God's far too busy with Co2 levels and volcanos and tsunamis and earthquakes and coral die-offs to concern itself with your meat supply worries.

      However, your region's Department of Fish and Game is always there for you. Papers, please.

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