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posted by Fnord666 on Monday January 15 2018, @11:08AM   Printer-friendly
from the west-meets-east dept.

Wim Hof first caught the attention of scientists when he proved he was able to use meditation to stay submerged in ice for 1 hour and 53 minutes without his core body temperature changing. Since then, he's climbed Mount Everest in his shorts, resisted altitude sickness, completed a marathon in the Namib Desert with no water and proven under a laboratory setting that he's able to influence his autonomic nervous system and immune system at will.

Almost everything Wim has done was previously thought to be impossible - but he's not a freak of nature.

To demonstrate that any human can learn his methods, Wim offered to teach Matt Shea and Daisy-May Hudson to climb a freezing cold mountain in their shorts without getting cold.

Buddhist breathing techniques repackaged for westerners? There's an app for that.


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  • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by pe1rxq on Monday January 15 2018, @11:23AM (8 children)

    by pe1rxq (844) on Monday January 15 2018, @11:23AM (#622529) Homepage

    Sounds like the same bullshit rehashed.
    What exactly was proven and what definition of 'scientifically' are we using here?
    All I see is that he managed to trick two people to do something stupid.

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 15 2018, @01:07PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 15 2018, @01:07PM (#622549)

      Don't know. The summary provides no useful information and offering something isn't the same thing as actually doing it. Still, autonomic nervous system, immune system, brown fat cells, and the pain response all have been shown to be influenced by self-hypnosis, so nothing he's claimed can be simply dismissed as bullshit or explained as a freak of nature. At the novice level, all those things are easy but aren't too useful. It takes more practice in order to do noticeably useful things with those skills.

    • (Score: 5, Informative) by JoeMerchant on Monday January 15 2018, @01:33PM (1 child)

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Monday January 15 2018, @01:33PM (#622556)

      It is, of course, nothing new... Buddhists have been demonstrating this kind of thing for centuries. Through self-hypnosis and acupuncture, the Chinese have done open heart surgery (successfully) without anesthesia. The twist here is that this guy is teaching westerners to learn and practice some of these things in a very short time, just a few days as opposed to the years to decades long traditions of the east.

      In one sense, it's all in their heads - absolutely, call it self-hypnosis or whatever you like. In another, they are doing things with their heads that others cannot, or more to the point: do not. The ice-bath stuff isn't that wild - polar clubbers do that all the time; although, if you get in a bad state with sustained cold exposure you can experience uncontrollable shivering which these people clearly were not. Suppressing auto-immune reaction to injected toxins is pretty far out there, and he taught a group of 12/12 to do that in a few weeks.

      The main thing that's interesting (to me) about this is that it's not wrapped up in inexplicable and mystical fog, it's straightforward and open: here's what we're doing, and here's how to replicate it easily.

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
      • (Score: 2) by Hawkwind on Monday January 15 2018, @07:54PM

        by Hawkwind (3531) on Monday January 15 2018, @07:54PM (#622693)

        Well said. I'm not clear on what the complaint is. The video is pretty straight forward. Wikipedia has academic citations. Maybe pe1 needs to rtfa, or at least provide a link to a debunking.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 15 2018, @02:03PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 15 2018, @02:03PM (#622567)

      sounds like you're a blind and quite uneducated unreflected person, doesn't it?

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Monday January 15 2018, @03:45PM (3 children)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 15 2018, @03:45PM (#622584) Journal

      sounds like

      Did you watch the video? Nothing in the video is "impossible", it's all just hard to explain. His attempts at explanation involve states of mind, adrenaline, willpower, and discipline. No magic mumbo jumbo, no praying to some mystical spirits, no hallucinogenic drugs. I'm intrigued. Adrenaline has been credited with many feats that would seem impossible, at least to most onlookers.

      The "science" part is where the dude submitted to some medical testing, then later, his students submitted to similar testing. He accomplishes things that the medical profession cannot explain. I don't think that he, or any of his students, claims that they are using science to accomplish anything.

      Unlike people who claim to levitate, and perform other tricks that defy the laws of physics, the Iceman is merely doing the unexplainable. That is, science can't explain what he's doing precisely.

      Now, if you can cite a video of him floating over Krakow, or flying himself to Paris, or otherwise defying established laws of physics, then I'll take your attitude. Until then, I'll keep an open mind.

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by pe1rxq on Monday January 15 2018, @04:14PM (2 children)

        by pe1rxq (844) on Monday January 15 2018, @04:14PM (#622593) Homepage

        His way of working has been the same for years: Make claim that is just a little bit incredible, parade some sciency types who are supposedly doing research but just not ready to present a proper well researched paper. And of course: invite a few to join him and provide nice anecdotes.

        As for his explanation:If you are invoking state of mind, adrenaline, willpower and discipline without any real evidence (not the anecdote type) is just as bad as praying to mystical spirits...
        Believing in himself hard enough does not make it true...

        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Monday January 15 2018, @04:52PM (1 child)

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Monday January 15 2018, @04:52PM (#622613)

          is just as bad as praying to mystical spirits...

          He seems to be throwing open the invitation to anyone to gather whatever evidence they want, which is a whole lot better than drug development in secret - justified with mountains of impenetrable scientific "evidence" rammed through a regulatory agency that doesn't have the time or manpower to really analyze it, then promoted in saturation TV advertising that's 90% happy imagery followed by 10% mumbled cautions about potential side effects.

          --
          🌻🌻 [google.com]
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 16 2018, @07:47PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 16 2018, @07:47PM (#623254)

            I can understand the skepticism. This is exactly what Uri Geller and his ilk were doing in the 70s. They were doing feats that "science said was impossible", and verified by scientists! However, Uri could never seem to do these amazing feats when a magician was in the house [youtube.com].

  • (Score: 0, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 15 2018, @12:40PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 15 2018, @12:40PM (#622543)

    When he comes up with a way to actually "grow a larger penis", then even I will sit-up and take notice.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 15 2018, @01:22PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 15 2018, @01:22PM (#622554)

    Impressive achievements. How about crossing Antartica [wikipedia.org] via the south pole, alone?

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Monday January 15 2018, @01:39PM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Monday January 15 2018, @01:39PM (#622559)

      There are limits of physics and physiology, and Antartica can challenge those. Also, from what I gather from the video, Hof didn't summit Everest in his shorts without oxygen, but he did mention going from 5000 meters up past 7700 meters (25,000 feet)...

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
  • (Score: -1, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 15 2018, @02:29PM (12 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 15 2018, @02:29PM (#622571)

    There is a documentary "In the beginning there was light". The original name is "Im Anfang war das licht" etc.

    It is about people who live on light. No food, just light. You might need to open your mind just a tiny little bit.

    The medical establishment tells us that we are all sick and we all have diseases that cannot be cured and that we are all disabled and to wear our disability with pride. That is a sick conspiracy to stop us from looking at other options and to limit our existence to the products we consume.

    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday January 15 2018, @02:40PM (2 children)

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Monday January 15 2018, @02:40PM (#622573)

      Where does the answer lie?
      Living from day to day
      If it's something we can't buy
      There must be another way
      We are spirits in the material world
      Are spirits in the material world
      Are spirits in the material world
      Are spirits in the material world

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
      • (Score: 4, Funny) by Wootery on Monday January 15 2018, @04:23PM (1 child)

        by Wootery (2341) on Monday January 15 2018, @04:23PM (#622602)

        You know that we are living in a material world
        And I am a material girl

        Am I doing that right?

        • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday January 15 2018, @04:46PM

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Monday January 15 2018, @04:46PM (#622612)

          Um... yeah, except for the whole missing the thematic similarity with the article and stuff.

          One of the recurring themes in the videos is: there was no cure for what had him down, he had to find his own. What he found is nothing that can be packaged in a pill and sold to the millions, so there's not a lot of interest in developing it.

          --
          🌻🌻 [google.com]
    • (Score: 3, Funny) by opinionated_science on Monday January 15 2018, @02:44PM (1 child)

      by opinionated_science (4031) on Monday January 15 2018, @02:44PM (#622575)

      "It is about people who live on light. No food, just light. You might need to open your mind just a tiny little bit."

      This is utter BS.

      I have posed a question to some of my students along the line of:

      "Imagine you could convert your skin to be photosynthetic, how much energy would you gain?"

      Not that much! That's why trees don't walk ;-)

      The original article, however, does suggest there are mechanisms in the human body that are not purely "autonomic", and as with most things biological it is a matter of degree.

      The ice submerging test is very easy to verify, so I am not sure what the controversy is.. assuming it was done under experimental conditions.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 15 2018, @05:35PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 15 2018, @05:35PM (#622631)

        Did you even watch the documentary? I know you did not and never will.

    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 15 2018, @03:11PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 15 2018, @03:11PM (#622578)

      "You might need to open your mind just a tiny little bit"

      Be careful your brains don't fall out.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 15 2018, @05:50PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 15 2018, @05:50PM (#622641)

        Mind is the "thinking" thing. Brain is a physically existing biological organ. Presence of brain does not guarantee or imply presence of mind.

    • (Score: 2) by Wootery on Monday January 15 2018, @04:19PM (1 child)

      by Wootery (2341) on Monday January 15 2018, @04:19PM (#622599)

      You might need to open your mind just a tiny little bit.

      And yet you're posting as AC. You're just spouting absurdities, and you know it.

      I know, I know, don't feed the trolls.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 15 2018, @05:57PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 15 2018, @05:57PM (#622645)

        Reality is stranger than fiction. No one is asking you to stop eating or drinking. Go ahead, eat up the whole forest, drink up the whole sea.

        "Absurdities" until you are converted to that way of thinking and then they are no longer absurdities to you and the rest of your kind calls you absurd. Or do you follow the "normal person" doctrine exactly?

        Posting as AC neither adds nor subtracts from any argument.

    • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 15 2018, @05:46PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 15 2018, @05:46PM (#622639)

      There are those who will not believe anything unless it is supported by a scammer in a white lab coat who calls himself a doctor.

      For those who will not watch the documentary, it also includes the story of an old man in India who does not eat or drink and hasn't done so for 70 years. The investigation was done by medical doctors while video was recorded 24/7. Feel free to check out his story.

      Supposed nerds who fail to see outside the box, who will eat everything the gutter press throws at them. Most of you lot are pathetic monkey see - monkey do fools.

    • (Score: 2) by wonkey_monkey on Monday January 15 2018, @08:12PM (1 child)

      by wonkey_monkey (279) on Monday January 15 2018, @08:12PM (#622699) Homepage

      You should reconsider the bullshit your peddling, which has led to the deaths of gullible idiots like yourself.

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk
      • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 15 2018, @11:05PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 15 2018, @11:05PM (#622829)

        America should reconsider the bullshit democracy and regime-change they're peddling, which have led to the deaths of millions of gullible and not-gullible people.

        Not going to happen.

  • (Score: 2, Informative) by Crash on Monday January 15 2018, @08:03PM (1 child)

    by Crash (1335) on Monday January 15 2018, @08:03PM (#622696)

    TFA's link "Buddhist breathing techniques", should be Chapter 1 [ocoy.org], which actually describes the Buddhist breathing techniques as opposed to the latter chapters which primarily focus on the history and philosophy.

    The Meditative Mind [youtube.com], channel is good.

    Last year I tried to find albums of some Meditative Mind [youtube.com] videos on Google Play Music, and after doing searches like Tibetan Monk Chant, a search for, 'Mantra OM' procurred the artist, Udgatar with an album ironically called, Mantra OM [google.com].

    May the breath be with you ;)

    • (Score: 1) by Crash on Monday January 15 2018, @08:19PM

      by Crash (1335) on Monday January 15 2018, @08:19PM (#622703)

      Doh. I rephrased to take out the ill-fitting YouTube channel line, then forgot to take out that line.

  • (Score: 2) by inertnet on Monday January 15 2018, @08:32PM (1 child)

    by inertnet (4071) on Monday January 15 2018, @08:32PM (#622709) Journal

    Don't take this too lightly, several people who tried his methods have drowned. If you really want to try, make sure you understand his methods and have someone watch over you.

    Just lookup "Wim Hof deaths" for more information.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Monday January 15 2018, @09:09PM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Monday January 15 2018, @09:09PM (#622731)

      Two recent drowning deaths in the Sacramento area have been traced to submerged meditating and breathing practices

      Well, if they're submerged when they're practicing their breathing, they're obviously doing it wrong!

      In seriousness, just like the Tide Pod challenge, swimming alone is dangerous enough, swimming alone when you're deliberately messing with your consciousness (even if air is your drug of choice), should fall into that: "Do we really have to warn you?" category.

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
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