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posted by mrpg on Wednesday January 17 2018, @10:33AM   Printer-friendly
from the AI-likes-k-pop dept.

Submitted via IRC for TheMightyBuzzard

It's a commonly held grudge of listeners who are no longer pop's core demographic that the music of the moment is not what it once was [...] But [what] happens when science attempts to prove these claims? Here are some studies that suggest your parents might have been having a lot more pop fun than you are...

[...] This followed a similar study by a team from the Spanish National Research Council, lead by artificial intelligence specialist Joan Serrà, who examined nearly half a million pop songs over a similar period (in this case 1955-2010), and looked at their tonal, melodic and lyrical content. They concluded that pop has become melodically less complex, using fewer chord changes, and that pop recordings are mastered to sound consistently louder (and therefore less dynamic) at a rate of around one decibel every eight years.

[...] The Lempel-Ziv algorithm is a lossless way to compress data, by taking out repetitions, and Morris used it as a tool to examine 15,000 songs from the Billboard Hot 100 from 1958 to 2014, reducing their lyrics down to their smallest size without losing any data, and comparing their relative sizes. He found two very interesting things. The first was that in every year of study, the songs that reached the Top 10 were more repetitive than their competition. The second is that pop has become more repetitive over time, as Morris points out: "2014 is the most repetitive year on record. An average song from this year compresses 22% more efficiently than one from 1960."

Of course, none of this means that pop songs are any less fun. They may be slower and sadder than before, but if pop songs are now simpler and louder and more repetitive than they used to be, that might make up for it. In fact, a 2011 report called Music and Emotions in the Brain: Familiarity Matters, compiled by a team led by Carlos Silva Pereira suggests that the human brain enjoys knowing what is coming next in music. Having conducted fMRI scans on people listening to songs, the report concludes that, "Familiarity seems to be a crucial factor in making the listeners emotionally engaged with music."

Source: Has pop music lost its fun?


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Flyingmoose on Wednesday January 17 2018, @10:41AM (19 children)

    by Flyingmoose (4369) <mooseNO@SPAMflyingmoose.com> on Wednesday January 17 2018, @10:41AM (#623523) Homepage

    Pop music was big during the 60s with the advent of recording and home listening. I think music as a way to change the world (as it was seen in my parent’s youth) has been superseded by the internet and other things, it’s now just a form of entertainment.

    • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @10:48AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @10:48AM (#623524)

      Even though she screamed, the man did not stop. Even though she bled, he still did not stop. He did not stop because this was justice. True Justice. A fight for men's rights. The man continued utilizing her until he was satisfied and forced her to dump herself into a dumpster. Another small victory for mankind.

      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @02:57PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @02:57PM (#623598)

        What the f*** is wrong with you

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @09:50PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @09:50PM (#623836)

          Could be muslim

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by canopic jug on Wednesday January 17 2018, @11:38AM (11 children)

      by canopic jug (3949) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 17 2018, @11:38AM (#623538) Journal

      Pop music was big during the 60s with the advent of recording and home listening. I think music as a way to change the world (as it was seen in my parent’s youth) has been superseded by the internet and other things, it’s now just a form of entertainment.

      I think that's pretty much it, too. However, I'd clarify that said entertainment is done by entertainers and not musicians. Further, those entertainers are chosen by corporations not the listening public. Remember that in the 1960s just about every town had one or more fully independent local radio stations, each trying to find out what people wanted to hear and then playing that. Stats were aggregated and actual popular music was acknowledged. Between now and then direction of the flow has been reversed. Now, in contrast, there are few stations and those are all owned by one or two companies which syndicate their content nationally pushing entertainment from the entertainers they own onto the listening public. These few companies simply tell the listening public what the must listen to. It sucks and mostly only old people listen to radio and then mostly out of habit.

      However other media are not better. No, not even Spotify is a whole lot better given how many youths stick with only the sponsored play lists.

      --
      Money is not free speech. Elections should not be auctions.
      • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday January 17 2018, @12:23PM (8 children)

        by Phoenix666 (552) on Wednesday January 17 2018, @12:23PM (#623549) Journal

        You can find music created by real musicians, but you have to look in different places. My wife discovers them through podcasts. Others go to live performances. Corporations do control the old channels so processed pablum is all that a person will find there anymore.

        I took a different route. In the Napster days and afterward the RIAA irritated me so much that I began teaching myself to play music. I'm no virtuoso, but I can do it well enough to scratch the itch. It's rewarding, too, in a way that listening to something someone else has composed isn't. That experience of channeling your expression into music is different and better than listening to even a great piece from someone else.

        --
        Washington DC delenda est.
        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Nerdfest on Wednesday January 17 2018, @03:28PM (1 child)

          by Nerdfest (80) on Wednesday January 17 2018, @03:28PM (#623613)

          My goal this year is to go out and see more live local music more. I did it quite a lot last year, and loved it. I found some amazing bands, great shows, and a lot of the time stuff outside my normal sort of comfort range for listening. Because of the "safety" of going through metal detectors and being searched at the big venues, it actually feels like I'm going out to have fun as well. I may make an exception for Greta Van Fleet if it's a big venue show if they ever show up here. Damn those guys sound good.

          • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday January 17 2018, @06:21PM

            by Phoenix666 (552) on Wednesday January 17 2018, @06:21PM (#623696) Journal

            I don't know where you are in the world but if you can South by Southwest seems to attract unusual artists, as well, though in the smaller venues around town more than on the main stages. There are even buskers all over downtown who can't or don't want to pay the registration fees for the smaller places, but want to be there for the scene and the chance for exposure from talent scouts wandering from scheduled show to scheduled show.

            --
            Washington DC delenda est.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @03:32PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @03:32PM (#623617)

          Corporate Music sucks. Learn to play and make your own music. I retired and decided to teach myself acoustic guitar. Having fun at a local weekly jam session.

        • (Score: 2) by Pino P on Wednesday January 17 2018, @05:07PM (2 children)

          by Pino P (4721) on Wednesday January 17 2018, @05:07PM (#623654) Journal

          the RIAA irritated me so much that I began teaching myself to play music.

          By that point, the RIAA stops annoying you and the NMPA [nmpa.org] starts.

          Founded in 1917, the National Music Publishers’ Association (NMPA) is the trade association representing all American music publishers and their songwriting partners. [...] The goal of NMPA is to protect its members’ property rights on the legislative, litigation, and regulatory fronts.

          Do you write your own music, play music that others have written, or both?

          • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday January 17 2018, @06:09PM (1 child)

            by Phoenix666 (552) on Wednesday January 17 2018, @06:09PM (#623690) Journal

            Both, but I don't bother with tabs or sheet music. Neither do I perform. I play for my own enjoyment, and it doesn't bother me if I don't reproduce a known tune exactly.

            If I did want to, or to play with others in a band or something, then I'd probably go to a library and take a picture of the sheet music with my phone or do something else. The analog hole is my friend, and always will be.

            --
            Washington DC delenda est.
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @09:52PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @09:52PM (#623841)

              Thief! How dare you steal from hard working middlemen!
              You should be taxed at a rate of 200% for 10 years to make up for your transgressions.

        • (Score: 2) by krishnoid on Wednesday January 17 2018, @08:24PM (1 child)

          by krishnoid (1156) on Wednesday January 17 2018, @08:24PM (#623776)

          You can find music created by real musicians, but you have to look in different places. My wife discovers them through podcasts.

          Names/links please?

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @09:06PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @09:06PM (#623806)

            Mrs. ...
            Oh you meant the podcasts. Never mind.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @12:59PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @12:59PM (#623561)

        > ...every town had one or more fully independent local radio stations, each trying to find out what people wanted to hear and then playing that.

        ...every town had one or more fully independent local radio stations, each trying to find out how to make the most money from payola and then playing that.

        ftfy

        ps. It may not have been completely corrupt, but there were numerous pay-to-play scandals.

        • (Score: 5, Informative) by Arik on Wednesday January 17 2018, @01:05PM

          by Arik (4543) on Wednesday January 17 2018, @01:05PM (#623564) Journal
          "ps. It may not have been completely corrupt, but there were numerous pay-to-play scandals."

          That's very true, the difference being that back then, it was a scandal.

          Today, it's institutionalized. Business as usual.
          --
          If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
    • (Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Wednesday January 17 2018, @07:17PM (2 children)

      by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us (6553) on Wednesday January 17 2018, @07:17PM (#623729) Journal

      Oh, the good old days were good.... But you also had Payola in the 60's, so you could say it was also the advent of record label dominance and that Pop music was not necessarily chosen by the people. And music was just as big business back then - they suborned the dream in the same way that the children of the Baby Boom went from being the Flower Power of the 60s into the corporate raider Yuppies of the 80s.

      --
      This sig for rent.
      • (Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @10:45PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @10:45PM (#623879)

        Flower Power to Corporate Raiders isn't a from-to. The whole 60's hippie thing (by which we mean the last three years, but somehow it all gets classified as the whole decade) is just as selfish and self-indulgent as the 80s corporate thing (and don't forget the "Me Generation" 70's in between). That flower power crap was all about mid- to upper-class people shirking responsibility and engaging in lots of self-indulgence. Hide out in school with no responsibilities while the ones who couldn't afford it got to go fight. The ones who really walked the walk were the ones getting beat down in Selma or in Mississippi, or were the ones crawling through the jungle being shot at. But somehow the whole decade and a whole generation defines themselves by basically two musical events. They were always looking out for Number One then, the 70s, and the 80s.

        • (Score: 2) by acid andy on Thursday January 18 2018, @02:06PM

          by acid andy (1683) on Thursday January 18 2018, @02:06PM (#624128) Homepage Journal

          That flower power crap was all about mid- to upper-class people shirking responsibility and engaging in lots of self-indulgence.

          No, the ones that sold out and became corporate drones were never true hippies. When any philosophy becomes fashionable, it will always be flooded by a majority of wannabes and fakes.

          Hide out in school with no responsibilities while the ones who couldn't afford it got to go fight.

          What? Are you somehow implying that fighting is morally superior to pacifism? True hippies aren't about harming people.

          --
          If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @08:29PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @08:29PM (#623783)

      An old Zappa video comes to mind.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP4wsURn3rw [youtube.com]

  • (Score: 2) by turgid on Wednesday January 17 2018, @11:04AM (1 child)

    by turgid (4318) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 17 2018, @11:04AM (#623526) Journal

    I blame technical disco music myself.

    • (Score: 2) by richtopia on Wednesday January 17 2018, @05:28PM

      by richtopia (3160) on Wednesday January 17 2018, @05:28PM (#623666) Homepage Journal

      I blame the Shazam Effect myself:

      https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/12/the-shazam-effect/382237/ [theatlantic.com]

      The article is a good read about the ramifications of Shazam providing almost real-time ratings of pop music. Where before Shazam DJs were the ones who decided what music is popular in choosing what to play on the radio, now labels can pay big bucks to identify what is interesting to people. The result is louder and familiar songs. Maybe it stifles creativity, but it also delivers what people enjoy listening to.

  • (Score: 3, Touché) by marcello_dl on Wednesday January 17 2018, @11:36AM

    by marcello_dl (2685) on Wednesday January 17 2018, @11:36AM (#623536)

    def.
    when a complex situation is analyzed in depth according to an insufficient number of aspects. The outcome is irrelevant, the prediction power null.

    see also economist.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Arik on Wednesday January 17 2018, @11:38AM (5 children)

    by Arik (4543) on Wednesday January 17 2018, @11:38AM (#623539) Journal
    Beat on the brat
    Beat on the brat
    Beat on the brat with a baseball bat
    Oh yeah, oh yeah, uh-oh
    Beat on the brat
    Beat on the brat
    Beat on the brat with a baseball bat
    Oh yeah, oh yeah, uh-oh
    Oh yeah, oh yeah, uh-oh
    What can you do?
    What can you do?
    With a brat like that always on your back
    What can you lose?
    What can you do?
    What can you do?
    With a brat like that always on your back
    What can you lose, lose?
    Beat on the brat
    Beat on the brat
    Beat on the brat with a baseball bat
    Oh yeah, oh yeah, uh-oh
    Beat on the brat
    Beat on the brat
    Oh yeah, oh yeah, uh-oh

    -Beat on the Brat, the Ramones, 1976.

    Pop is schlock but it's not being *simple* that makes it schlock.
    --
    If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
    • (Score: 1) by gtomorrow on Wednesday January 17 2018, @06:59PM (2 children)

      by gtomorrow (2230) on Wednesday January 17 2018, @06:59PM (#623723)

      FUCK! Posting because i hit the "Overrated" moderation INSTEAD of "Underated". Carry on as if nothing happened, please.

      • (Score: 1) by gtomorrow on Wednesday January 17 2018, @07:05PM (1 child)

        by gtomorrow (2230) on Wednesday January 17 2018, @07:05PM (#623726)

        Hmmm...I just read that posting does not cancel out moderation...Arik, sorry, I owe you one.

        +1 Today Your Love :)

        • (Score: 1) by Arik on Wednesday January 17 2018, @07:23PM

          by Arik (4543) on Wednesday January 17 2018, @07:23PM (#623734) Journal
          Lolol no problem, one moderation here or there doesn't really matter.

          Glad you liked the point. Less is more.
          --
          If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
    • (Score: 2) by marcello_dl on Thursday January 18 2018, @12:16AM (1 child)

      by marcello_dl (2685) on Thursday January 18 2018, @12:16AM (#623918)

      That cannot be a good candidate for compression, if it were you would

      Lameness filter encountered.
      Your comment violated the "postercomment" compression filter. Try less whitespace and/or less repetition.

      I hit it with "din daa daa", so I will post the second entry till the filter lets me

      Ai
      Laßt das sein
      Kinder
      Ihr seid wohl ganz versessen.

      Ai
      Laßt das sein
      Kinder
      Ihr seid wohl ganz versessen.

      Ai
      Laßt das sein
      Kinder
      Ihr seid wohl ganz versessen.

      Ai
      Laßt das sein
      Kinder
      Ihr seid wohl ganz versessen.

      Ai
      Laßt das sein
      Kinder
      Ihr seid wohl ganz versessen.

      Ai
      Laßt das sein
      Kinder
      Ihr seid wohl ganz versessen.

      Ai
      Laßt das sein
      Kinder
      Ihr seid wohl ganz versessen.

      Ai
      Laßt das sein
      Kinder
      Ihr seid wohl ganz versessen.

      Ich bin euer Herbergsvater
      Und sage Hey - Hey

      Ich bin euer Herbergsvater
      Und sage Hey - Hey

      Ich bin euer Herbergsvater
      Und sage Hey - Hey

      Ich bin euer Herbergsvater
      Und sage Hey - Hey

      Ich bin euer Herbergsvater
      Und sage Hey - Hey

      Ich bin euer Herbergsvater
      Und sage Hey - Hey

      Tri-Tra-Trullala

      Tri-Tra-Trullala

      Tri-Tra-Trullala

      Tri-Tra-Trullala

      Gevatter
      Ah-Ah

      Gevatter
      Ah-Ah

      Gevatter
      Ah-Ah

      Gevatter
      Ah-Ah

      Oh
      Oh - Jucheissassa (where is this one I don't recall)

      • (Score: 2) by marcello_dl on Thursday January 18 2018, @12:22AM

        by marcello_dl (2685) on Thursday January 18 2018, @12:22AM (#623922)

        but the winner is

        Dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo dildo

        (the group was Interactive, the year 92, you guess the title)

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @11:57AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @11:57AM (#623541)

    Does it matter if Pop Music has lost its fun when Pop Music has already lost its soul? Me thinks not.

    #LongLiveRockAndRoll

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @03:02PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @03:02PM (#623600)

      Pretty much. It's not that the latest music is bad so much as it's lacking in soul. I'm fairly sure the only reason anybody listens to it is a combination of peer pressure and the fact that it's what's available on the radio.

      Compare it with even the music 10 years ago and it's even less soulful than it was then.

  • (Score: 2) by MostCynical on Wednesday January 17 2018, @12:08PM (12 children)

    by MostCynical (2589) on Wednesday January 17 2018, @12:08PM (#623543) Journal

    how many times in the sample period did the rules for which songs were eligible for the Billboard list change?

    How many "plays"/views on youtube count for inclusion?
    Some current "pop" stars have never released an album - they have a few youtube videos, they have soundcloud, and they Do NOT have a "label" or any of the money-sucking leeches that go with being a "signed artist"

    Tl;dr: billboard is almost certainly irrelevant to most under 20s, if not under 25s, and hip hop, grime, and any other "current" popular music won't sound good to anyone over 30.

    Also: the oldies need it louder, they listened too loudly when they were young.

    --
    "I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by anubi on Wednesday January 17 2018, @12:34PM (3 children)

      by anubi (2828) on Wednesday January 17 2018, @12:34PM (#623556) Journal

      ...and hip hop, grime, and any other "current" popular music won't sound good to anyone over 30.

      Also: the oldies need it louder, they listened too loudly when they were young.

      So right... I am closing in on 70, and *really* have a hard time recognizing the new stuff the kids are listening to as "music".

      For all I know, they are playing something that lined the bird cage.

      I did not much like our "drug music" either, but I thought we had some absolutely beautiful "love" music in the 60's.

      But then, most blew their ears out with the 60's drug music. I did not, and now find that damned near anything is too loud.

      --
      "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
      • (Score: 4, Informative) by canopic jug on Wednesday January 17 2018, @12:55PM (1 child)

        by canopic jug (3949) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 17 2018, @12:55PM (#623558) Journal

        Also: the oldies need it louder, they listened too loudly when they were young.

        I consider my ears shot, at least compared to how they were most of my life. However, whenever I go to any public event I have to wear ear plugs because the sound system is beyond unsafe levels and quite painful. Those sound level occur even at events oriented to young children as well as general audience venues like theaters, not just oldster events. As a result I've noticed that most kids seem quite deaf by my standards. So generations of deaf adults are now forcing the younger generations to also be deaf: Misery loves company.

        --
        Money is not free speech. Elections should not be auctions.
        • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @03:11PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @03:11PM (#623607)

          Most kids have selective hearing.

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @03:15PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @03:15PM (#623608)

        A pop musician plays 3 chords for 3000 people,
        a jazz musician plays 3000 chords for 3 people.

    • (Score: 2) by The Archon V2.0 on Wednesday January 17 2018, @03:06PM

      by The Archon V2.0 (3887) on Wednesday January 17 2018, @03:06PM (#623603)

      > Also: the oldies need it louder, they listened too loudly when they were young.

      If it isn't loud, it doesn't work.

      (Quote nicked from Blank Reg.)

    • (Score: 2) by Pino P on Wednesday January 17 2018, @04:49PM (3 children)

      by Pino P (4721) on Wednesday January 17 2018, @04:49PM (#623647) Journal

      Tl;dr: billboard is almost certainly irrelevant to most under 20s

      In what way do "most under 20s" contribute to the revenue of songwriters, recording artists, and their producers? Child labor laws and compulsory education laws keep "most under 20s" from having a substantial income with which to buy music.

      • (Score: 2) by acid andy on Thursday January 18 2018, @02:20PM (2 children)

        by acid andy (1683) on Thursday January 18 2018, @02:20PM (#624133) Homepage Journal

        I think I spent more of my pocket money on music than I spend on music in my adult life. I suspect this is fairly common.

        --
        If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
        • (Score: 2) by Pino P on Thursday January 18 2018, @10:38PM (1 child)

          by Pino P (4721) on Thursday January 18 2018, @10:38PM (#624445) Journal

          Which requires you to have a source of pocket money in the first place. What is that, typically? There aren't enough paper routes for every child in a neighborhood to have one.

          • (Score: 2) by acid andy on Friday January 19 2018, @12:27PM

            by acid andy (1683) on Friday January 19 2018, @12:27PM (#624655) Homepage Journal

            I think the point is that it's the young people that choose what music to buy. They are the consumers. It doesn't matter who earned the money. It's the youthful demographic that decide what sells.

            --
            If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @04:51PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @04:51PM (#623648)

      > ... the oldies need it louder, ...

      Years ago I worked with a friend and his sound contracting company, after some testing we concluded that louder sounds better to us.

      Specifically, we concluded that this can be a tiny bit -- less than the nominal "noticeable amount" of 1dB. When we compared two different amplifiers (with an A-B relay set up) alternating into the same set of Altec 604 monitor speakers, they sounded the same if the levels were matched to better than 0.1dB. If one was louder than the other by, say, 0.5 dB, it sounded better, although we couldn't tell that it was louder, it just sounded better/richer and our "listening jury" was usually unanimous. This was true across a wide range of different amplifiers, from a cheap 20 w/channel receiver to some fancy tube amps and some big PA amps like Phase Linear and a big MacIntosh.

      Note -- the one place where the low power amps fell down was if they clipped, which was pretty obvious.

      • (Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday January 17 2018, @06:13PM (1 child)

        by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 17 2018, @06:13PM (#623693)

        by, say, 0.5 dB,

        This I believe

        better than 0.1dB

        Might be pushing it.

        For a good time some google terms are weighing filter curves (like db(A) and db(C)) vs freq. Also the whole concept of dB "electrical power" vs sone/phon perceived sound power which also varies crazily by freq and somewhat by intensity. biological systems just aren't as linear (or precisely logarithmic) as we can calculate.

        From memory a dB is about the minimum humans notice at 404 Hz telco test tone and a measured electrical power dB is one percieved sone at 1004 Hz or something like that, but the response vs freq is weird for humans and I would not be surprised if around 2 KHz people could hear the difference of 0.5 dB but not at 8K or 200 Hz. How a recording mix from an audio engineer sounds, or is perceived, actually does depend on overall listening volume, which is also crazy but true aka the helpful graphs of measured dB vs perceived sone/phon vary not only by frequency but also by amplitude.

        Our eyes are high fi. If our brains blew as much processing power on hearing as we blew on visual processing, we'd all be insane because our ears are inferior transducers we're stuck in a crazy psychedelic auditory world..

        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @07:07PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @07:07PM (#623727)

          >> ...better than 0.1dB

          It was a long time ago, late 70s, my friend borrowed a true RMS volt meter (from a test lab) to match the levels between the amps -- the kind of meter that uses a little thermocouple heater to give wideband response...and takes a moment to stabilize as the heater warms up. For level matching he used a noise source input (probably pink noise). My numbers could be off due to bad memory.

          What I took away was that it would be very easy to skew the results of any A-B audio testing by making one a little louder than the other. Beware of stereo store listening rooms, the speakers that have a higher profit margin may sound better because they are playing at a very slightly higher volume!

          On your other points, yes-- digging into hearing could be a life's work, with all the nonlinearities there is plenty to study.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by anubi on Wednesday January 17 2018, @12:22PM

    by anubi (2828) on Wednesday January 17 2018, @12:22PM (#623546) Journal

    Music was a *huge* part of my adolescence. We had two radio stations in town. One was for the old folks, one was "ours".

    Not a kid in town did not know who the disk jockeys were. We were always calling them on the phone to spin something for us.

    Having our local AM radio DJ show up somewhere was sure to cause a crowd. They would often do remote transmissions from store openings or new food joints. Very much like in the movie "There Goes my Baby".

    We would all go buy records at the record store, then go to each other's houses, box of records in tow, and those things got passed around and swapped like trading cards. Mostly 45 rpm singles. Usually paid about a buck each. Which was kinda the "price of admission" so you felt you had something on the table at the gathering.

    But, seems like things changed. The 60's. Drugs. Parents needed to watch kids more closely. That free-living social life we enjoyed was soon frowned upon, as way too many of us were ending up experiencing drugs and sex. Lost innocence I guess. [youtube.com]

    Soon, the music was losing its meaning, or at least to me. It was becoming angry. Or meaningless stuff that sounded more like a dump truck than anything crafted by a musician. It was hard to think of my girlfriend when that stuff was playing.

    All I have left are the memories, and thank goodness, the old stuff is still around... on YouTube.

    I am open to the suggestion that we all imprint on a particular genre of music - as we go through adolescence.

    A particular type of music imprints on us, as those synapses link at a particular time of our life. This is what is imprinted in me. Google does an excellent job of grouping, once the linked one starts, it follows it with more of the same. My dad had even older stuff, but it did not mean all that much to me. Neither does the later stuff mean anything to me either. I guess I associate these particular songs with experiences I had as a teenager. And once that time has passed, the links are permanently burned into my engrams.

    Oh yes, the link I offered? That came to mind when one of my associates brought in a really old synthesizer from the 60's into the shop for repair. Oh God, did I ever get flashbacks just from seeing that old thing. I remembered seeing that group playing it - or one that looked just like it. Three high school girls and some paid musicians. They made one song, promoted by their family, a minor label took a chance on them and released it, and that was it.

    Things seemed so simple and innocent back then. Then the big boys started playing with nuclear toys, and the world would never be the same again.

    --
    "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Webweasel on Wednesday January 17 2018, @12:22PM

    by Webweasel (567) on Wednesday January 17 2018, @12:22PM (#623548) Homepage Journal

    I used to be with it, but then they changed what ‘it’ was, and now what I’m with isn’t it. And what’s ‘it’ seems weird and scary to me.

    And it will happen to you!

    --
    Priyom.org Number stations, Russian Military radio. "You are a bad, bad man. Do you have any other virtues?"-Runaway1956
  • (Score: 5, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @12:27PM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @12:27PM (#623552)

    After my family forced me to listen to pop radio (northeast US) for a couple of weeks, I realized there are really only four songs being played:

    • white girl dissing her boyfriend
    • black girl dissing guys in general
    • black guy self-congratulating on all the action he's getting
    • white guy whining about not getting any

    Am I missing anyting?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @04:58PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @04:58PM (#623651)

      Missing the crossover from country -- my truck broke down and my dog died.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 18 2018, @04:06AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 18 2018, @04:06AM (#623998)

        That's old-school country.

        Now the thing is "bro" country, which is exactly what it sounds like. Mostly about how awesome it is to be country bro, having a good time, drinking beer, getting some action, etc. A lot of it sounds just like pop in terms of rhythm, pacing, flow, etc. except with "country" instruments.

        Of course, there's also the women, but that's almost entirely songs complaining about their boyfriend (or ex-boyfriend).

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by VLM on Wednesday January 17 2018, @06:50PM

      by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 17 2018, @06:50PM (#623717)

      Am I missing anyting?

      If you're familiar with the concept of gender fluidity then you won't be surprised that your specified races are as portrayed generally not as per actual skin colour, kinda a modern version of the old "blackface" routine.

      So there are "portrayed as black girls" who are actually Italians, Mexican Jews, palest of blonde white hillbillies, etc. Also there's "portrayed as black guys" who are actually white suburban middle class boys.

      As with most cultural appropriation issues, there's a whole spectrum of response from "its disrespectful to their culture so burn it with fire" all the way to "if they're rocking it, what feels good can't be wrong".

      Narrowcasting also gets weird. My wife sometimes turns on the local "adult hot contemporary" station which is aimed with laser precision at young suburban white women and they only play the white girl and the black guy songs, absolutely nothing else.

      Kinda like how infinite min/max optimization of food taste results in every food becoming flavored corn syrup, the musical analogy is too many merchants in the music business trying to maximize profits results in only four boring songs.

  • (Score: 2) by inertnet on Wednesday January 17 2018, @01:16PM (1 child)

    by inertnet (4071) on Wednesday January 17 2018, @01:16PM (#623568) Journal

    Back then pop music was about engagement, today it's all about entitlement.

    As someone else already mentioned above in some way, engagement has moved to the internet. Although entitlement is pushing it away there as well.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @01:30PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @01:30PM (#623573)

      What do you mean?

  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @02:58PM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @02:58PM (#623599)

    (extract the essence and turn a blind eye to his lack of writing clarity) ...

     https://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=11614941&cid=55937515
     by AHuxley ( 892839 ) on Tuesday January 16, 2018 @06:58AM
     

    1. Pop music has become slower. Pop music is not music made by a computer to get repetitive beat to become some other genres.

    2. Sound consistently louder. Invest in a better studio that will make music as the talented artist instructs. If the artist cant tell the studio what they want due to lack of skill, the studio will just make the product loud.

    3. When pop music became worst. Artists did not face a Vietnam draft. See Vietnam on TV. The computer change of the 1980's that still needed classical musical skills. Lack of skills and lack of emotional drive over a decade produces a lack of artistic creativity.

    4. Song lyrics. People putting music groups together want a group thats controllable and can sell on good looks. Lyrics can be created by anyone for a wage.

    Without the life skills, politics and passion of one person to write lyrics the music will fail. In the 1960's and 1970's people had to learn how to be musical. What would sell. How to write music and lyrics. In the 1980's only a select few could afford a computer system to do music, had musical talent and got accepted as music that would sell. Recording time was expensive and a real craft, an art. You had to pay your own way or get some to pay for music to be recorded and sold.
    That was a loan that got offered to people with music skills. People with no music skills did not get invested in, did not have their music in shops and on the radio.

    Your music had to have merit to even get considered. With todays computers, low cost equipment more very average people are trying "music". The results are new bands that are created on looks not talent to sell.

    Past music had to present in ways to avoid TV censorship in some nations. That really motivated and advanced the needed musical skill set.
    The listen audience in 2018 is starting to see a created band with people creating the music and lyrics for them. Moving around to created music on the set of a horror movie does not present in the same way a creative musician recalling a war, their politics, their wealth, their poverty. The way censorship had to be worked around created professionals. A generation that had to know classical music, computer programming, the limitations of an audio signal processor, MIDI, how to work in a studio setting.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @03:06PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @03:06PM (#623602)

      #4 isn't really right. 80% of the hits from the last couple decades come from just two writers, so to suggest that anybody can write this dribble is suspect. It sounds like anybody could write it, but in practice it's a small number of writers responsible for most of the crud.

      • (Score: 2) by Zinho on Wednesday January 17 2018, @05:48PM (1 child)

        by Zinho (759) on Wednesday January 17 2018, @05:48PM (#623680)

        I agree, and will expand by refuting that bands based on image are new to 2018. New Kids On The Block was openly admitted to being a manufactured phenomenon. [wikipedia.org] Going back another couple of decades, The Monkees were hired first for their looks and acting ability, and and their musical abilities second. It wasn't until their TV show started losing popularity that they were able to take control of the way their music was written and produced.

        Record companies want to make money. It's much simpler to buy songs from a competent songwriter and find a pretty face to serve as the brand to sell. The musician community recognizes this all to well, as shown by the following comment from Garth Brooks in December 2017 about playing 7 nights in Nashville:

        "We feel very lucky we get to do this, but you don't have to go in this town very far to find somebody who plays better than you, sings better than you, writes better than you," Brooks concedes.

        Music popularity has much more to do with marketing than with aptitude or talent; I don't think this has changed in the last 40 years or so.

        --
        "Space Exploration is not endless circles in low earth orbit." -Buzz Aldrin
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @07:12PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @07:12PM (#623728)

          > New Kids On The Block was openly admitted to being a manufactured phenomenon.

          see The Monkeys (appeared shortly after the British invasion got going) - also a manufactured phenomenon.

  • (Score: 5, Informative) by Grishnakh on Wednesday January 17 2018, @03:53PM (3 children)

    by Grishnakh (2831) on Wednesday January 17 2018, @03:53PM (#623624)

    Finally, some real evidence that I was right. I'm so sick of people telling me, "you just have nostalgia, today's music is no better or worse than when you were young". It's bullshit. Today's music really is worse, and it's measurably different, as proven in this article.

    A lot of things were different in the 50s - early 90s, compared to today. First, we didn't have the "loudness wars", with digital music being ultra-compressed so it sounds better in shitty earbuds or on cellphones. Second, we didn't have Autotune, so singers actually had to be able to sing in tune. Even the lousiest pop music in the 1980s was sung by people who could actually sing. That's no longer a requirement. The lousiest pop music in the 60s-70s was played on real instruments, not arranged on computer, so someone had to be able to play an instrument reliably to make that music.

    • (Score: 2) by jelizondo on Wednesday January 17 2018, @05:35PM (1 child)

      by jelizondo (653) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 17 2018, @05:35PM (#623672) Journal

      I believe, and have no way to prove, that the attitude was different too.

      Even heartbreak songs were upbeat, optimistic. I’m not a musician so I can’t say whether it was the rhythm, the cords or whatever but to my ears older music sounds upbeat and more recent “creations” sound more pessimistic, nihilistic even suicidal.

      I haven’t the foggiest idea what youngsters play for a slow, romantic dance; actually I’m not sure they know what a slow dance is!

      And if you open your ears a bit, there is some great music in Spanish and French from the 50’s – 90’s too; Mireille Mathieu and Tania Libertad come to mind immediately.

      • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Wednesday January 17 2018, @05:48PM

        by Grishnakh (2831) on Wednesday January 17 2018, @05:48PM (#623681)

        Upbeat? Did you miss all that music during the Vietnam War era? Although I guess you could argue that that wasn't "pop".

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @06:59PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @06:59PM (#623724)

      I dunno, I like some of the new stuff.

      The late 1990s to early 2000s were a bit boring and the "gatekeepers" were quite strong. That artistes like Alicia Keys could sweep so many awards in that period should show you how weak and poor the competition was that the gatekeepers allowed through. In contrast in the other decades there was strong competition. For example even though in 1984 Michael Jackson did win 8 Grammys but I think that was deserved (4 good songs that are still being played a lot today) vs Alicia Keys ("meh" songs 5 awards).

      But nowadays with Youtube etc, it's easier to find new interesting music even if the traditional "gatekeepers" don't pass them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESx_hy1n7HA [youtube.com]
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMSC7Tg8Yek [youtube.com]
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMseq4aD8tk [youtube.com]
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ErUig8i5cM [youtube.com]
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2mZVOd0jWY [youtube.com]

      The range of music has actually grown a LOT wider, there are genres that are huge today that barely existed two decades ago...
      e.g. Video game music:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVy7YPNP_zI [youtube.com]
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQYN2P3E06s [youtube.com]
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJiHDmyhE1A [youtube.com]
      There are concerts that play video game music...

      There's stuff like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfeyUGZt8nk [youtube.com]
      And last but not least: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT3mCybbhf0#t=71s [youtube.com] ;)

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @06:07PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @06:07PM (#623689)

    You could listen to other countries pop music...

    There's k-pop, j-pop and other countries:

    France:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m65jhGwtWrg [youtube.com]
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBe6j2Jh7jw [youtube.com]
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDXOzr0GoA4 [youtube.com]

    Romania:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMmMTdc7RE0 [youtube.com]
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAhHNCfA7NI [youtube.com]

    Tanzania:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf-ehqG_sX0 [youtube.com]

    But yeah lots of radio stations around the world still play about the same songs: http://radio.garden/ [radio.garden]

    Does OK Go count as pop? I like their gimmicky music videos not so much the music, but this one is ok: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1ZB_rGFyeU [youtube.com] :)

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @10:00PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 17 2018, @10:00PM (#623844)

    It's not the old days anymore, listeners are incredibly fragmented. There's literally millions of artists producing content in thousands of scenes, and it's all instantly available. Kids don't listen to radio, they listen to YouTube.

  • (Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Wednesday January 17 2018, @10:10PM

    by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Wednesday January 17 2018, @10:10PM (#623852) Journal

    From TFA:

    but if pop songs are now simpler and louder and more repetitive than they used to be, that might make up for it. In fact, a 2011 report called Music and Emotions in the Brain: Familiarity Matters, compiled by a team led by Carlos Silva Pereira suggests that the human brain enjoys knowing what is coming next in music. Having conducted fMRI scans on people listening to songs, the report concludes that, "Familiarity seems to be a crucial factor in making the listeners emotionally engaged with music."

    It's quite a bit more complicated, but there's an important truth within this. Repetition in music is essential to create a sense of structure (from the repetition of a drum groove every few beats all the way up to repetition of a chorus on the level of the form of an entire song to create a sense of return). If all you played was random notes with random rhythms, it would rapidly become uninteresting or even annoying because it's just information overload. Music is fundamentally about balancing repetition and novelty. If you literally repeat the same short note pattern too many times, it will also become boring and annoying. The trick is finding the balance.

    Pop music always has been more repetitive. And there are have always been styles that are less repetitive or formulaic. Various kinds of "alternative" music were known in the past for using less of the standard patterns or formulas -- both musically and lyrically. "Art" music or classical music is often even less repetitive, requiring more attention and cognitive investment to sense the patterns. Classical music also often has musical forms that span longer stretches of time, also requiring more attention and a willingness to wait longer for returns, repeats, climactic moments, etc. But even there, there's a limit -- in the 1800s with composers like Beethoven, there was a strong reaction that the music was too long and incomprehensible. But that's when they started selling orchestral scores and piano reductions, so people could play the stuff at home and learn the music to find the repetitions and form. (This was obviously before the days of recordings, so you might only get to hear a symphony performance a few times in actual live concerts.)

    Anyhow, the amount of repetition determines to a great extent the ease of listening, since it requires less cognitive investment. But you can be too repetitive or formulaic, which can turn some listeners off. (Except I suppose for electronic dance music and such, but that has a different goal.) It's kind of like pop literature or popular movies -- a good romance comedy or spy thriller or whatever often uses standard formulas and tropes, but it's accessible to a wide audience. Some people like a more complicated structure that requires more attention, so they go to the arthouse theater to watch indy flicks or even more esoteric stuff.

    But all of this still has to follow some sort of pattern -- repeats and formal structures in music, basic narrative structure in film, etc. Or else it can't communicate effectively... it will just seem like randomness.

    It seems like the balance between repetition vs. novelty is gradually shifting in popular tastes toward the former, which likely says something about our attention and perhaps cognitive trends in general.

    I don't know about the report mentioned in TFA, but it you want to see some serious thought on repetition in music and how it relates to cognition, I'd recommend Elizabeth Margulis's On Repeat: How Music Plays the Brain [elizabethmargulis.com] (which is so much more insightful than the cursory analysis here).

  • (Score: 1) by GDX on Wednesday January 17 2018, @11:46PM

    by GDX (1950) on Wednesday January 17 2018, @11:46PM (#623910)

    In experience is that 10 years is to much to analyze music, normally I see 1 year and perhaps 2 years of good music an then is goes worsening for 3 to 6 years until almost all the new music is bad. But being true is not really that bad as music as is more a mediocre canned music trying to imitate the previous good music without luck, in other works the musicians that didn't hit the spot go on trying to imitates the ones that did undermining their one creativity that made their previous music good and the labels aptitudes worsen this phenomenon even more.

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