Ex-CIA officer arrested for retaining classified information
A former Central Intelligence Agency officer was arrested at a U.S. airport on Monday night in connection with charges that he illegally retained highly classified information, the U.S. Justice Department said Tuesday.
Jerry Chun Shing Lee, a U.S. citizen who now lives in Hong Kong, used to maintain a top secret clearance and began working for the CIA in 1994.
The Justice Department said that in 2012, FBI agents searched his hotel rooms during trips to Virginia and Hawaii. They discovered he had two small books containing handwritten information on details such as the true names and numbers of spy recruits and covert CIA employees.
Ex-C.I.A. Officer Suspected of Compromising Chinese Informants Is Arrested
A former C.I.A. officer suspected by investigators of helping China dismantle United States spying operations and identify informants has been arrested, the Justice Department said on Tuesday. The collapse of the spy network was one of the American government's worst intelligence failures in recent years.
You may remember this story: CIA Informants Imprisoned and Killed in China From 2010 to 2012
Also at BBC, SCMP, and Washington Post (archive).
Related Stories
The New York Times reports that the Central Intelligence Agency faced one of its worst intelligence gathering setbacks in decades when many of its informants in China were killed or imprisoned between 2010 and 2012. To this day, it is unknown how the identities of the informants were compromised:
From the final weeks of 2010 through the end of 2012, according to former American officials, the Chinese killed at least a dozen of the C.I.A.'s sources. According to three of the officials, one was shot in front of his colleagues in the courtyard of a government building — a message to others who might have been working for the C.I.A.
Still others were put in jail. All told, the Chinese killed or imprisoned 18 to 20 of the C.I.A.'s sources in China, according to two former senior American officials, effectively unraveling a network that had taken years to build.
Assessing the fallout from an exposed spy operation can be difficult, but the episode was considered particularly damaging. The number of American assets lost in China, officials said, rivaled those lost in the Soviet Union and Russia during the betrayals of both Aldrich Ames and Robert Hanssen, formerly of the C.I.A. and the F.B.I., who divulged intelligence operations to Moscow for years.
The previously unreported episode shows how successful the Chinese were in disrupting American spying efforts and stealing secrets years before a well-publicized breach in 2015 gave Beijing access to thousands of government personnel records, including intelligence contractors. The C.I.A. considers spying in China one of its top priorities, but the country's extensive security apparatus makes it exceptionally hard for Western spy services to develop sources there.
Also at BBC, which notes:
Last year, China warned government officials to watch out for spies - and not fall in love with them
This CIA story really helps put that "Don't date a foreigner!" campaign in perspective. You don't want to see your significant other bleeding out in the street, do you? DO YOU?!
Update: Chinese paper applauds anti-spy efforts after report CIA sources killed
The Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) used a quick and dirty web-based system to communicate with its agents around the world. Easy-to-use but not sophisticated. Iran and China used this system to find U.S. spies and convert or kill many agents, including entire national spy networks, starting around 2008.
Once you recognized the system, counter-spies could simply use Google to find the CIA's communication sites. They could then use standard traffic analysis to find out who visited the sites, identifying the spy networks.
Iran found spies using the system, converted some to double agents, while killing dozens of others. Iran may have passed the info to China, who wiped out the CIA network there, turning and killing 30+ agents. Iran then went spy hunting across the Middle East, too.
The absolute kicker: a CIA tech contractor identified the problem, that the network was compromised and spies were disappearing due to it, and reported it up the chain in 2008. He was ignored, punished and fired. Part of the reason we know this all happened is because he filed a federal whistleblower protection lawsuit.
So many/most of these U.S. agents would not be dead if CIA management AND the CIA inspector general had listened and acted on the report of a technical/security problem. Instead they denied they had a problem, burying their heads and their agents in the sand. Not only is the CIA riddled with terrible torture monkeys, but also deadly, incompetent, and inept management.
Article: The CIA's communications suffered a catastrophic compromise. It started in Iran.
Previously: CIA Informants Imprisoned and Killed in China From 2010 to 2012
Ex-CIA Officer Arrested, Suspected of Compromising Chinese Informants
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 18 2018, @02:50AM (79 children)
This is the one crime for which our constitution lays out the punishment. He is to die.
Unfortunately, he can die for at most one of the crimes. We can't very well bring him back to life and then kill him again. Multiple people are now dead because of him, and so he ought to die multiple times. What we really need for him is decades of torture.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Thursday January 18 2018, @03:06AM (50 children)
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/former-cia-officer-arrested-retaining-classified-information [justice.gov]
10 years max. Less if he plays it smart and cuts a deal.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 18 2018, @03:35AM (48 children)
The proper crime is treason.
Since people died, we could also throw in various manslaughter and murder charges. When you commit a felony and somebody dies as a result, it is typically considered the same as murder. In this case it was even worse; he had reason to believe that people would die as a result of his actions.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 18 2018, @04:20AM (15 children)
Jesus gave a protip once. You'll be held accountable for your faults in the same way you held others accountable for their faults. The process happens before moving down the tunnel of light. Some get stuck during that process.
(Score: 2, Troll) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday January 18 2018, @05:53AM (14 children)
It can happen, and you can get stuck, after the tunnel too (which is after all mostly an artifact of a dying brain). There's no specific time limit and it's a lot harder to let go of these things after you're dead. If I have one major fault it's vengefulness and inability to let go of a grudge until I see someone properly punished, and this bothers me a bit.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 18 2018, @09:29AM (13 children)
We are all very much aware of your faults, Hazuki. No need to recite them for us. Actually, you have about ten major faults, and the rest are just minor faults. Your pigheadedness is an iffy one - major, or minor? But, if you want to play that minimalization game with your faults, go for it. Some people may believe you.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday January 18 2018, @08:16PM (12 children)
Okay, you're either conversant enough in Japanese culture to know my surname is out front, or you know me from somewhere. Who in the hell are you, and where do you get off saying things like that?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 18 2018, @08:24PM (11 children)
Says the user who regularly says much worse shit about people :P I know my only major flaw is that I'm too perfect!
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday January 18 2018, @08:28PM (10 children)
One more time: who the hell are you?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Thursday January 18 2018, @11:19PM (5 children)
With such great humility as that, it can only be one soylentil!
But it is just an Anonymous Coward, one among six thousand other Anonymous Cowards. But I do sense that this one is particularly cowardly, and sensitive to slight. We will prey for him.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday January 19 2018, @03:33AM (4 children)
This seems to be the beginning of a harassment campaign. It's either the same guy or multiple people replying across several threads and automatically troll-modding anything I post. This would be amusing if it weren't for the waste of perfectly good electrons being spent on it.
It's also a shame he/they can't register an account and post under an actual name. Sounds like my balls are bigger than his, and they're ovaries :)
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Friday January 19 2018, @05:39AM (1 child)
Oh, I know who it is. Little curmudgeon of very little brain! Right-wing scum ammosexual prevert! He has done this before. I myself was personally spam modded by him. I assume he paid the usual price, but of course our closet not really admin but dev and so default alt-right admin would never reveal such a thing. But I do notice a shift. The Trumpeeple, the alt-right, the really-really-wrong, they are all coming to a realization that the gig is up. Patience, Azuma-san. 復讐は一番寒い料理です。
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday January 19 2018, @09:06PM
I don't think this is Uzzard. It's way too coherent and calm. I don't detect even a single particle of foaming saliva. No, this is probably some rando who doesn't even have a registered account on here, probably jumping from Tor node to Tor node just for the lulz. There's one way to find out (well, two, but I'd rather not commit cyber-crime...).
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @03:55PM (1 child)
Oh, FFS - you do know why women rub their eyes when the wake up in the morning? Those are the only balls they have to scratch.
And, what's with this sensitivity shit? Someone hit a nerve by addressing you by name? That would be some funny shit, if it weren't so damned pathetic.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday January 19 2018, @09:00PM
Sure, my name actually is Hazuki Azuma. Right. You are aware that this is nearly the Japanese equivalent of "Jane Doe?" Everyone and their dog knows, and in a few cases *is,* an Azuma. It's like Smith or Johnson.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @02:25AM (3 children)
make some gris-gris and throw the bones and ask the spirits, witch
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday January 19 2018, @03:31AM (2 children)
I haven't turned into a witch yet. Somehow my soul gem is still clear. How that is, I don't know, but regular Luminous with my love seems to be part of the answer :)
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @03:56PM (1 child)
What did you even say? Does it make sense to anyone but yourself? It is some kind of pagan code-speak?
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday January 19 2018, @08:58PM
...yes. Yes, it is. That is exactly what it is. Pagan code-speak. Totally. Specifically chosen for that reason, because it wouldn't...heh...Connect.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 18 2018, @10:04AM (31 children)
He didn't wage war on the United States nor help others who were waging war on the United States, so I'm pretty sure what he did doesn't match the Constitutional definition of treason.
(Score: 3, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Thursday January 18 2018, @03:03PM (30 children)
China is indeed waging economic and political war against the United States. Clueless people have no idea that there is a war. People who have clues, refer to it as assymetric warfare. That "Assassin's Mace" policy that China subscribes to is pretty far behind, but it is still moving ahead. The policy, clearly stated, goes thus: "We intend to dominate the United States, economically, politically, and militarily, within 20 years." We're closing in on 30 years now, and they don't dominate us YET. But, it's coming.
And, this CIA officer is far from the first to commit treason within the scope of this war. Clinton gave them military secrets. Romney exported dozens of businesses. Half of corporate America is in bed with the Chinese. Yet, it is treason, and they should all be hanged, starting with Bill Clinton.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Thursday January 18 2018, @06:26PM
Bookmarking this one for the Trump impeachment trial....
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 18 2018, @08:38PM (28 children)
That's nice, but I'm pretty sure War in the context of the Constitution refers to *military* war, which, since China is a sovereign nation, would require a declaration of war from Congress. Which it hasn't issued.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday January 19 2018, @02:17AM (27 children)
What a narrow minded view. And, what about fifth generation warfare? You're also incapable of understanding that Islam is at war with the world?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @02:53AM (6 children)
We're talking legal actions, so I provided my opinion on the laws. Which is narrow, since that's how laws are supposed to be viewed.
Islam isn't at war with the world. Some Muslims are attacking groups that they think are, or have a history of, interfering with their homelands, or religion, or sacred sites. Which, while that does cover the USA and most of Europe, is not the whole world. Islam may have an evangelical component that encourages Muslims to try and convert the world, but so does Christianity. Which, by the way, did a fair job of attacking most of the world itself not that long ago, even the bits that weren't interfering with the homelands, religion, or sacred sites of any Christians.
I also don't think there's a war on crime, drugs, minorities, immigrants, men, women, or whatever the headlines and political rhetoric du jour is.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday January 19 2018, @03:08AM (5 children)
What a load of horse shit. Warfare has moved so far beyond you and your legal definitions, that you are left floundering like a fish out of water. Go look up "asymmetric warfare", and see if you can get a clue. While you and the rest if the flounder are busy reading and interpreting law, Islam and China will wax your asses using methods that you don't even understand. China has a 5000 year history from which to pull inspiration, and the Muslims are just vicious bastards with many imaginative ways of causing death.
What that all means is, there won't BE a declaration of war.
Remember this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnJFhuOWgXg [youtube.com] Gil actually had some clues.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @03:33PM (4 children)
Maybe, but the Constitution hasn't been altered. And that is where treason is defined. So if you want to execute anyone for treason then they have to have broken the Constitutional definition of treason and be convicted for it, which requires two witness to the overt act or a free confession in open court. What this guy did doesn't match the definition.
So are Christians. Check any torture museum. Part of being human.
Speaking of history, you should read up on the history of the Caliphate and the STEM advances that came out of it, like algebra.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday January 19 2018, @04:13PM (3 children)
You've been drinking the Kool-Aid, I see. ARABS are credited with the invention of algebra. MUSLIMS, not so much. (what, you thought "Arab" and "Muslim were synonyms?) The roots of algebra go back much further than Islam does. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebra#History [wikipedia.org]
If you're going to make false claims of Islam creating STEM field things, then all of us Americans can feel justified in claiming to be first at every damned thing. Hell, we invented SEX!! All the rest of you are descended from asexual protoplasm, or something.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebra#History [wikipedia.org]
Now, if you want something that Islam can actually be credited with - they DID, jointly with the rest of Arabia, preserve most of the world's knowledge while the pigs in Europe were wallowing in filth. Of course, that presumes that the "west" is the world. Asia had their own thing going on at the time, and China didn't suffer a dark ages, either.
Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī was indeed Muslim, but he built upon the works of other people. He could have stated that he stood upon the shoulders of giants, if he were humble enough.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @04:33PM (2 children)
try https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Ingenious_Devices [wikipedia.org] That definitely came out of the Caliphate.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday January 19 2018, @04:38PM (1 child)
Try this then - http://gatesofvienna.net/2013/08/how-muslims-did-not-invent-algebra/#content [gatesofvienna.net] And, scroll on down to the comments - Dave nailed it, on August 7, 2013 at 5:45, the second comment after the article.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @04:51PM
The Book of Ingenious Devices has nothing to do with Algebra. I freely admit that I was wrong and that mathematicians in the Caliphate did not originate algebra and were not the only ones working developing it.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Friday January 19 2018, @06:09AM (19 children)
Shirley, O mighty and wise Runaway1234, you refer to fifth grade warfare? You know, where prepubescent politicians shoot spit-balls at each other and pretend that they are actually doing something that makes sense to something? No, your brain has be corroded by you time in the US Military. Do you not notice that the craziest Trump cabinet members are former military? Flynn, Zinke? MKULTRA was not just inflicted on innocent civilians and suspected spys. That Hypno-toad you claimed to have encountered in Venice? CIA. And now you are totally incapable of rational thought, and you find yourself inexorably drawn to Faux News, just like the Donald himself. Tell us, Runaway, do you do McDonalds? Just like Trump? And are you not acting all crazy, paranoid, irrational and uninformed, just like the Trumpster? Don't you think, THEY ARE PUTTING SOMETHING IN THE MCDONALDS!!!! OMG!!!
So, seriously, Runaway, you are way out of your league, way above your pay grade. You do not know enough to even comment on such matters, except that SoylentNews allows you, and everyone's attempt to signal to you that you are embarrassing yourself with such ignorant, if not illegal under international law and tantamount to war crimes AND blatant and irregardless TREASON against the United States of America. I am truly sorry for your service, if you are actually a vet and not a stolen valor asshole, since it has done you, or American, no good what so ever.
Love and kisses, aristarchus.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday January 19 2018, @04:14PM (18 children)
If you're going to act like the playground retard, I don't have the time for you, Ari. Fifth generation warfare. Look it up.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Friday January 19 2018, @04:25PM (17 children)
You better make time, Runaway! Of course I am familiar with "fifth generation warfare". But it is just like Web2.0 or 5G, a marketing term and not something real. War has been illegal, except in cases of immedidate national self-defense, since the UN Charter was signed. But various Military-industrial complexes are still searching for a budget-justifying enemy, and making the case that war is good for business. Mercenaries. Sorry that they brainwashed you, bro!
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday January 19 2018, @04:48PM (16 children)
And, the Chinese are laughing their asses off at the ignorant Greek. You do have a clue, in regards to the Military-industrial complex. Maybe you should use it. Why don't you run along, and spend some time with Sun Tzu. He had some things to say about fifth generation warfare, if you are astute enough to understand them. He was probably the first to understand asymmetric warfare, but I wouldn't bet a lot of money on that. Sun Tzu, at one time, was a novice, sitting at the feet of the then-recognized masters. None of us alive today can say which of his ideas are original, and which are borrowed from the giants, on whose shoulders he stood.
Meanwhile - let us dispense with the European code of chivalry, and their concept of war. The rest of the world doesn't recognize that code. If we adhere to that code, our asses will be grass, and China will be the lawnmower, while Islam acts as the lawn roller.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @04:56PM (6 children)
And if don't adhere to that code then we won't be us anymore.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday January 19 2018, @05:23PM (4 children)
Oh, my! We won't be us anymore!! That's why when I was five, I refused to learn how to spell my name. "But, Mama, if I learn to spell, I won't just be ME anymore!" In fact, the wisest of us refuse to be potty trained. "If I poop in the water, it won't be the same, and I won't be ME anymore!" And, let's all just refuse to die, because, like, man, when you're dead, you can't be you anymore either.
Maybe you've been exposed to the idea that civilization is but a thin veneer that we plaster over real life? I don't hold wikipedia out as a final authority, but it's a good enough place to start: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veneer_theory [wikipedia.org]
I will opt for survival, first, then I'll worry about who I have become. And, if you can only understand that you are talking about survival, you'll do the same. There is lots of time afterward to regret our "deplorable" actions, while we watch the grand children playing on the lawn. Just ask all those chivalrous knights who helped to persecute the witches, pagans, druids, Jacobites, and all the others the Church declared to be "fair game".
Heresy, you say? (big cheshire cat grin)
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @05:53PM (3 children)
And that is precisely what the various fanatics are hoping you'll do, since it plays into their propaganda and against our stated principles. Also, if your enemies are so bad, what's the point of surviving if you act just like them?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday January 19 2018, @06:19PM (2 children)
Well, it's like this: While fighting the monsters, I may become the monster, but when all the other monsters are dead, there will be no one to call me a monster.
Enough smartassery - seriously, WTF good does your "civilized" nonsense do, when the barbarians have overrun you, raped and killed your wife, raped and enslaved your daughters, killed your sons, and drink your finest beverages from your hollowed out skull?
Or, I don't know, maybe you can just convert to Islam. Or, just sit and stare into the abyss? Moohamed will probably stare back at you thought.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @07:04PM (1 child)
So you want to revert to barbarism? Go right ahead. Just leave the country first, please, and join all your other barbarians.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday January 19 2018, @07:14PM
Revert to barbarism? That isn't exactly what I said. I said that I would resort to barbaric ways to preserve a hope that tomorrow's generation would survive. Remember the part about reflecting on lamentable actions, while watching the grandchildren playing on the lawn? Civilization is a facade - and sometimes, a little maintenance is in order so that other people can enjoy that facade.
Which reminds me. Do you like a good pork chop? Bacon? Or, how 'bout a hamburger? You do realize, some barbarian had to kill the critter that you enjoy eating? Some barbarian, such as myself? I'm amused at people who couldn't kill a creature, but enjoy eating them. They are at least as amusing those who enjoy their civilization, but can't understand what may be required to preserve that civilization.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots, and tyrants. It doesn't take an act of congress, after all. In fact, the blood of congressmen and lawyers would make the tree healthier!!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @08:30PM
There are levels of existence that Runaway is prepared to accept. He is a coward, in principle, in that he has principles, but if you don't like them, he has others. He is ready to jettison western culture in order to defend western culture from a boogey man Islamophobic threat he got from Faux News.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Friday January 19 2018, @06:45PM (8 children)
Giants? Prior to 孙子? Nice try at displaying erudition, Runaway! But you have only once again made clear you have no idea what you are talking about. Guess will just have to forcibly convert you to Islam, get you all gay married, and do the whole "trans-racial" operation upon you.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday January 19 2018, @07:15PM (7 children)
Molon labe, bitch.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Friday January 19 2018, @08:26PM (6 children)
Μορον Λαβία,σκύλα'
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday January 19 2018, @09:11PM (5 children)
Your labia is a bitch?
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Friday January 19 2018, @10:16PM (4 children)
Must hurt, only knowing one language, and that one not very well.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday January 20 2018, @02:46AM (3 children)
I'll bet it hurts a lot more to be an arrogant ass. You've forgotten what the meaning and purpose of communication is. Showing off is just ignorant. And, I'm sorry for your labia - not.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Saturday January 20 2018, @03:59AM (2 children)
Runaway, I am sorry it has come to this, but: "I know you are, but what am I?" You were the one showing off. Unfortunately what you were showing off was your ignorance. I have tried, this and many times before, to warn you. But you do not listen, because you are one arrogant hillbilly son of a gun! Moron labia, yours, biatch!
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday January 20 2018, @03:02PM (1 child)
You wouldn't know a hillbilly if he walked up and bit you on your ass. Or a cowby, or much of anything else. And, truth be told, I have more respect for those various uncouth rednecks, than I have for you. It's amazing how much philosophy you can learn from old men and women in the hills, or in cowtowns, on construction sites, and even in truckstops. All of that from people who may or may not have ever read any of the recognized philosophers.
You? You're proud and arrogant, and you can't learn from anyone except the masters. Unfortunately, you haven't even learned from them.
Now, I think it's time for you to urinate up a vertical length of hemp.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Saturday January 20 2018, @11:40PM
Finally, Runaway, you say something that is true! I have been around much longer than you, and have lived in many more places and travelled much more than you, so of course I know this. And I have learned much from them. You, on the other hand, seem not to have! I criticize you not because you are hillbilly, but because you are an arrogant ignorant hillbilly who is constantly posting misinformation on things you misunderstand.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 18 2018, @12:45PM
Nothing if he turns into Hillary Clinton.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 18 2018, @05:58AM (1 child)
(citation needed)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @06:53AM
I think the US Constitution specifies the death penalty, specifically by being shot out of a cannon, for the crime of claiming things are in the Constitution when they are not. Seize that AC! Lube him up! Tamp the powder charge! Leftentant, ram the AC! Overshot cards! Ready! (Don't bother to aim, it makes no difference). Fire!
Alas, poor AC, may he rest in pieces, and at least he has stopped erroneously quoting the Constitution. May his fate serve as an example to others. Amen.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by c0lo on Thursday January 18 2018, @06:18AM (15 children)
This needs to be proved beyond doubt.
The "You may remember this story: CIA Informants Imprisoned and Killed in China From 2010 to 2012" is, so far, conjectural in regards with his responsibility into those deaths.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 5, Insightful) by aristarchus on Thursday January 18 2018, @08:29AM (11 children)
Are these people complaining about these alleged deaths of traitors to their own country, the same persons who were calling for a death penalty for Snowden or Manning? Our Irony Meter is broken, again!!
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 18 2018, @08:36AM (2 children)
Use the coppery one next time, it withstands higher temperatures.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 18 2018, @10:12AM (1 child)
Nah, you want tungsteny, titaniumy or nickely. You can't beat a good iconel pipe in your superheater. Cutting edge of 1970s technology.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Thursday January 18 2018, @07:06PM
Palladiamy? Palladiany? Doesn't roll off the tongue, though.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 18 2018, @04:44PM (3 children)
This is a fight between countries. Traitors get killed. China did it, killing Chinese traitors who were helping us.
This guy, Snowden, and Manning were all traitors to the USA.
We don't need people within our own nation helping our foes. It's incredibly serious, affecting the lives of all Americans, so such people have to die. If you disagree, you're probably one of them, perhaps not yet having found an opportunity to betray your country.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 18 2018, @05:30PM (1 child)
> This guy, Snowden, and Manning were all traitors to the USA.
Telling American people that their government is not following the Constitution is treason?
> such people have to die
Or we could imprison them. Of course, that isn't good for cavemen such as yourself.
> If you disagree, you're probably one of them, perhaps not yet having found an opportunity to betray your country.
Now not being a sociopath means I'm a traitor? You should really be locked up, you're a danger to a civilized society.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 18 2018, @07:46PM
Manning did not report anything that was constitutionally questionable.
Snowden reported one thing that was, just barely, a constitutional violation. There was serious argument over it until we got a ruling from the supreme court. Reasonable people could see things differently.
That one thing does not excuse all the other stuff Snowden dumped out. An evil person doesn't become good just because one single time they happened to do something good. If you disagree, you'll love Hitler.
Snowden's leak was devastating for the USA. The affects are subtle and long-term. If the president lacks some info, he may make the wrong decision. This could get us into a war, or make us delay fighting one that needs to be fought. Our diplomatic operations will be uninformed. You see the results as other countries doing well relative to us, while we suffer general economic failure from a multitude of apparent causes, but you can not possibly connect it to Snowden because we can not even know what it is that we might have known.
(Score: 3, Funny) by aristarchus on Thursday January 18 2018, @06:59PM
How quaint! My πατριά is Σάμος, but the idea of a "country" is somewhat ambiguous. Samos was part of the Ionian league, and later of the Delian League, but ended up under the control of various powers throughout history. The island has even been "betrayed" on occasion, yet it is still Samos.
For myself, I spent much of my earlier years in the schools of Alexandria, where they had a great Library. But as a philosopher, I considered myself a citizen of the universe, not a petty partisan of pretentious patriotism. Governments and tyrants seem to be quite ept at dispensing death, but much worse at producing knowledge, beauty, or peace and justice.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 18 2018, @05:26PM
I want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly. Are you saying that "secretly told the Chinese the identity of people living in a China who are working for the US," and "released information to the world showing the US is breaking its own laws and spying on its own citizens" are equivalent?
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Thursday January 18 2018, @06:29PM
Also, conspiring with Russia undermine a US election is totally fine!
(Score: 1) by nitehawk214 on Thursday January 18 2018, @10:55PM (1 child)
So you would never accept a turncoat to your side, and would send them back to be executed?
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 3, Interesting) by aristarchus on Thursday January 18 2018, @11:11PM
Little known fact: Soviet defectors were called "Redhats" by US Intel during the Cold War. Fedoras were more of a '40s thing.
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by Runaway1956 on Thursday January 18 2018, @03:05PM (2 children)
Sorry, but no. It only need be proved beyond a reasonable doubt.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday January 19 2018, @12:34AM (1 child)
As opposed to "beyond any doubt one cannot reasons with" or what?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @06:58AM
It has already been well established that Runaway understands nothing about his own country's legal system. I would not even bother to pay attention to his opinions on legal questions. He once suggested that it was not illegal, in the State of Arkansas, to have carnal relations with livestock that you personally owned. Or with your neighbor's livestock, as long as you compensated the owner. Yep, that's what Runaway1965 said, right 'cher on SoylentNews. Seemed to be a Porcine preference.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 18 2018, @06:22AM (1 child)
Nothing about death in there. Not to mention a really high bar of proof. Article III, Section 3, by the way. https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/constitution-transcript [archives.gov]
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 18 2018, @08:27AM
Poor AC was confused by all the big words. Attainder of Treason? Corruption of Blood? Lots of Americans can't read, so the carry around copies of the Constitution they have never read, people like Bundy, and not "Al", Paul Ryan, AC of SoylentNews, and they worship the words they cannot read, and the concepts they have no comprehension of. Kinda like Trump. In fact, they are Trump. Trumple. Trumpeeple. Are the stupidest people, in the world! (Striesand defect)
(Score: 2) by Arik on Thursday January 18 2018, @06:30AM
What on earth are you talking about?
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 18 2018, @08:22AM
Yeah, but he is not under Chinese juridiction, so the American constitution applies, and it says no such thing.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 18 2018, @05:03PM
Actually, no. What the Constitution says is: https://usconstitution.net/xconst_A3Sec3.html: [usconstitution.net] "The Congress shall have power to declare the Punishment of Treason".
Congress has set the max punishment for treason as death, yes, but the Constitution itself does not mandate this.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Thursday January 18 2018, @08:01PM (4 children)
Sounds a bit harsh to me.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 18 2018, @08:26PM (3 children)
Yeah, you think you live in a civilized world and then you get ass clowns saying evil shit like that.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday January 18 2018, @08:31PM (2 children)
I don't think most people are actually civilized, when you get right down to it. I have a very, very dim view of the human race, and am all too aware that civilization is a rather impressive lie we tell ourselves that would collapse after three missed hot meals.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @02:28AM (1 child)
That is to be expected. Your most intimate knowledge of a sample of the human race is of a miserable excuse of a human being.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday January 19 2018, @03:30AM
Come on now, my ex sucked, but she wasn't Literally Hitler (TM) or anything.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 5, Insightful) by DrkShadow on Thursday January 18 2018, @03:28AM
This is yet another example: If the government retains a backdoor key into all encryption on American soil, the major governments of the world will have ready access to _ALL_ encrypted data of Americans.
The government can simply not maintain secrecy of vital information -- not with CIA informants, not with Equation group, not with diplomatic cables. If the government demands a backdoor, then the world will have that backdoor and Americans will have nothing.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 18 2018, @06:37AM (4 children)
Thus to me CIA informants getting killed is about the same as rats getting killed. Just hope they got quick clean deaths and that's about it.
The NSA and FBI do help their country a bit, but the CIA too often serve themselves at the expense of the USA's interests. The USA might do better if most of the CIA were imprisoned or executed for their crimes and the entire organization shut down.
I suspect even the Yakuza have done more net good for their country than the CIA has done for theirs.
(Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Thursday January 18 2018, @08:47AM
Thinking hard... concentrating... deep... mmm.... you know, I could discover only one item on that list: it inspired Party in the CIA [youtube.com]
(grin)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by Spamalope on Thursday January 18 2018, @01:38PM (1 child)
It's hard for me to list significant amount
Because they strive to keep operations secret, you'd hear about the instances when something goes wrong. Appearing to be screw ups makes their job easier against anyone who believe it, so apparent incompetence could be intentional.
Of course, all of this provides cover if they're actually screw ups or if they're abusing their power. :/
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @03:16PM
It's like sampling secret brown stuff that leaks out from a container and most of it is shit. What makes you think that the secret stuff inside is not mostly shit? But good chocolate instead?
https://www.voanews.com/a/us-covert-actions-119012884/174608.html [voanews.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 18 2018, @05:40PM
I'm shocked, shocked I say, to hear that you haven't heard about the good things a *clandestine spy agency* are doing. It's almost like clandestine organizations don't want people to know what they are doing...
Seriously, though, they can do good things and you'd never hear about it. I am literally making stuff up, but the foiled assassination attempt on President Smith, or the uncovering of the nuclear weapons program of Countrystan, or the knowledge that whichever country is or is not abiding by international treaties. All of those are good things the CIA would do.
If you really want to know, get elected to Congress and join the Intelligence Committee (or better, become President). It's rather silly to think you would know the full story of any of the Intelligence organizations around the world as a random layman.
(This does not preclude you from criticizing them... just know you don't know all the good stuff and all the bad stuff they have and still do.)
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Wootery on Thursday January 18 2018, @03:59PM (2 children)
'Chinese informant' as in 'a CIA informant spying on the Chinese', right?
Am I the only one finding this use of 'Chinese informant' to be somewhere between misleading and malformed?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 18 2018, @05:23PM (1 child)
If a person is Chinese, and they are providing another country with information about China, then they are clearly a Chinese informant.
It only gets troublesome when a person fits half of that. For example, if a German person provides Japan with information about Korea, are they a German informant or a Korean informant? Also related, are they a German spy or a Japanese spy? It is clear that they are not a Korean spy or a Japanese informant.
(Score: 2) by Wootery on Friday January 19 2018, @09:42AM
Right, that was my point. They're using 'Chinese informant' to mean someone who works for the CIA, spying on the Chinese.
(Score: 2) by linkdude64 on Thursday January 18 2018, @05:39PM (2 children)
He wasn't alone.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 18 2018, @06:37PM (1 child)
I confess, I was the second gunman on the grassy knoll.
(Score: 2) by Wootery on Friday January 19 2018, @09:45AM
Now we know, folks. That mysterious second person was an anonymous coward.
I, for one, always had my suspicions.