from the a-billion-here-and-a-billion-there...-now-you're-starting-to-talk-about-real-money dept.
Apple invests $350 billion (with a "B") in USA over next 5 years
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2018/01/apple-accelerates-us-investment-and-job-creation/:
Apple today announced a new set of investments to build on its commitment to support the American economy and its workforce, concentrated in three areas where Apple has had the greatest impact on job creation: direct employment by Apple, spending and investment with Apple's domestic suppliers and manufacturers, and fueling the fast-growing app economy which Apple created with iPhone and the App Store. Apple is already responsible for creating and supporting over 2 million jobs across the United States and expects to generate even more jobs as a result of the initiatives being announced today.
Combining new investments and Apple's current pace of spending with domestic suppliers and manufacturers — an estimated $55 billion for 2018 — Apple's direct contribution to the US economy will be more than $350 billion over the next five years, not including Apple's ongoing tax payments, the tax revenues generated from employees' wages and the sale of Apple products.
[...] "Apple, already the largest US taxpayer, anticipates repatriation tax payments of approximately $38 billion as required by recent changes to the tax law. A payment of that size would likely be the largest of its kind ever made."
Using the new 15.5 percent repatriation tax rate, the $38 billion tax payment disclosed by Apple means they are doing a $245 billion repatriation. Apple had $252.3 billion in overseas cash as of the end of September quarter, according to SEC filings so that means the company is bringing back nearly all of its foreign cash.
Apple announces plans to repatriate billions in overseas cash and contribute $350B to US economy!
"Apple on Wednesday made a slew of announcements about its investment in and contribution to the U.S. economy in part because of the new tax law.
The headline from Apple is that it will make a $350 billion 'contribution' to the U.S. economy over the next five years, although it's unclear exactly how the company came to that number." https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/17/apple-announces-350-billion-investment-20k-jobs-over-5-years.html
(Score: 4, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday January 19 2018, @02:59AM (21 children)
I've told them, you've told them, we've told them, and here comes yet more proof that overtaxing businesses means the government loses money. But will even one progtard's mind be changed? Not a chance in hell.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by arslan on Friday January 19 2018, @03:23AM (5 children)
So is this attributable to Trump then - or will heads explode in order for that to happen?
(Score: 4, Informative) by Apparition on Friday January 19 2018, @03:36AM (4 children)
It's directly attributable to Donald Trump. Sadly, it's a video, but here you go [go.com].
ABC's Rebecca Jarvis: “Without these policy changes, would you be able to announce today the creation of 20,000 new jobs?”
Tim Cook: “No, there clearly—let me be clear, there are large parts of this that are results of the tax reform, and there are large parts of this that we would have done in any situation."
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @03:56AM
Three men dressed in black walk into a hospital and head towards the front desk. Even a cursory glance would tell one that these men are dangerous. One of the men pulls a large amount of money out of his pocket and hands it to the nurse at the front desk. The man holding the money says, while wearing an evil grin, "You know..." A disgusting smile appears on the nurse's face, and she then accepts the money. All three men travel to a particular room in the hospital.
Soon after, a woman walks up to the front desk to see one of her family members. The woman tells the lady at the front desk who she wishes to visit, but the receptionist simply gasps. "That room was Marked By 'P'! You can't go in there now!"
Elsewhere, the three men were now naked in a certain room. That room had a male patient who was unconscious due to drugs the doctors gave him at the behest of the men. The men were all raping the patient in various different ways. One man was was raping the patient's ass. Another man had slit open the man's belly and was jabbing his dick inside it. The last man was shoving his genitals in the patient's face repeatedly. All three of them would shout "Utilize like this!" at random intervals.
In the very same room, there were men who looked to be employees from a cleaning company. They were testing upright vacuums to see which one was most effective at removing dirt and grime from a rug placed in the room. The cleaning company employees would discuss the technical details of the vacuums they were testing amongst themselves, all the while ignoring the men raping the patient as if they simply did not exist.
Finally, the three men were done raping the patient. "Garbage has met its use..." one of them said. Before they departed, they shoved medical knives and needles into the patient's asshole.
After the men left, the sign on the outside of the door to the room they were in instantly changed from a number to the word "USED". The woman who wanted to visit a family member walked up to the room, read the sign, and looked absolutely disgusted. She then walked away, as if there was nothing of value in that room any longer.
(Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Friday January 19 2018, @01:58PM (1 child)
Thank you. APPLE IS BRINGING BACK JOBS!!!! Because of me.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @03:03PM
They are resurrecting Steve?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @05:12PM
Meanwhile, hundreds of billions in public healthcare gets clawed back. The USA is now a country that suffers from parasitic worms caused by horrible sanitary conditions. The USA is now a country where getting the flu can mean death because emergency care is underfunded and ill equipped. The USA is now a 3rd world country.
Perhaps Apple is investing in some new Foxconn factories. How much of this money will be spent investing in suicide nets for workers in 3rd world countries like the USA?
(Score: 5, Informative) by c0lo on Friday January 19 2018, @03:58AM (10 children)
Jokes on you, mate!
As routes to tax avoidance start [theguardian.com] closing [ft.com] down [ato.gov.au] world-wide, me reckons it would have happened anyway.
My point:
- yes, there's a point where to high a tax will hurt the budget revenue, but...
- in the USA case, that point wasn't reached. The dwindling US budget revenue was not caused by the too high a taxation level, but by the loopholes in tax regulations which allowed the multinat corps to swindle away their due taxes in US (and other countries too).
Specifically for Apple:
- share price: over $150
- dividend paid to investors: about $0.70 per quarter.
Annualized yield: under 2%
And yet, Apple has over $250B (with a B) in cash reserves.
So: shareholders have a weak benefit, investments in assets over the years not too much, money going under the mattress.
Not only the US population has not quite benefited from Apple's presence in US, but even their non-speculative investors didn't stand to benefit much - placing money in "conservative investments" (low risk loans/bonds) shows yields in the same range.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @11:21AM
Compare to the profits of flipping houses...
Trying to erect infrastructure and create jobs is a really risky and expensive business.
Actually, I am surprised anyone does it, given how lucrative buying and rent-seeking real estate is.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday January 19 2018, @11:30AM (7 children)
It quite obviously was if they're repatriating ~$350 billion before the ink's good and dry on the new tax code. Even to Apple, that is not chump change.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Informative) by c0lo on Friday January 19 2018, @03:50PM (6 children)
Mate, I swear I'm amazed how delusional you can be!
Apple swindled the American people and deprived them of billions and it's punished by... a reduction in their tax obligations.
Right - 10 years from now not only 53% Americans in the lower-mid income bracket will pay more taxes but, among others, the american roads will look worse can they be [youtu.be] much worse [youtube.com] than now [qz.com]?) and they won't afford health care.
The robber corporate barons rule you and fuck you sideways and, by God, you like it! The should be a special designation for it.
Oh, wait, there is one: right-wing middle-class American.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday January 19 2018, @05:23PM (2 children)
15% > 0%, just sayin...
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:59PM (1 child)
I'm glad you learned how to count. Now on to advanced reading skills so you can pick up some philosophy and perhaps earn the title "human".
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday January 21 2018, @01:04AM
Darlin, in case it's not apparent by all my previous posts, I give not a fuck how the unwashed, unthinking masses view me.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Osamabobama on Friday January 19 2018, @06:48PM (2 children)
America doesn't tax Samsung (for example) on its overseas profits, so why should Apple have to pay such a tax? The most pertinent difference between the two is the location of their respective headquarters. Is it so advantageous to be an American company that it would be worth paying additional tax for the privilege?
Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @09:34PM
One day the rest of the world will wise up and realize that giving handouts to corporations isn't a great long term plan. Globalism is a relatively new thing, and the various inequalities in world markets are still getting sorted out.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday January 20 2018, @03:51AM
Oh, sweet naivete. Do you really buy into this?
WEell, here's a cold shower for you: Apple taxes for the profit realized in US was shifted, until some time ago, in Bahamas, via Ireland and Netherlands.
Ir was called double Irish with a Dutch sandwich [investopedia.com]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday January 19 2018, @03:11PM
Then they find or make new ones. It's not that hard. Maybe this is even a part of the next set of schemes. But I would be surprised to see such opportunities vanish worldwide. It's interesting that they would put so much in the US.
(Score: 2) by n1 on Friday January 19 2018, @05:23PM (2 children)
I don't disagree with your sentiment, although the way you explained it makes you no better than the stubborn 'progtards' who remain committed to a view point in-spite of evidence. Regardless of how much evidence a 'progtard' gives you, you're not going to change your view, so why should they? After all their/your evidence is better, nothing is more conclusive than confirmation bias.
Either way, the headline and article is misleading which is alluded to at the end of the summary. This is what they 'hope to contribute' to the economy, the figure apparently arrived at through some secret proprietary formula of picking numbers out your ass. They are not actually investing 350bn.
They are paying $38bn in tax, and starting a $5bn manufacturing fund. (10% more than existing plans for general business operations) == $350bn somehow. At best -- according to my reading of the press release -- this can be concluded as the sum total of their operational expenses and R&D over 5 years.
How do you even work out what is 'over taxing' a business? What makes this new tax rate the right one, and why not just cut it a little more? If it was 1% more would apple have decided to continue reaping the maximum advantage from their offshore tax system and invested $0bn in manufacturing? If it was 1% less would they have invested billions more?
Fine if you want to argue for 0% tax, but that's not what you said here... What is the magic number as far as a corporate or indeed individual tax rate? How do offsets, deductions and other industry or business specific tax advantages (like what apple got in ireland) or incentives (like what amazon is getting cities to compete with) effect that magic number in regard to the effective tax rate?
Would this repatriation of capital actually be happening if the Ireland arrangement which got them a 0.005% tax rate was still in play and didn't bring the options down to going back to the US or finding a much more risky and politically exposed tax haven?
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday January 19 2018, @05:58PM (1 child)
You pay attention. If your nation's largest businesses are paying little to no tax because they're offshoring all the profits, that's a damned good clue that you're charging too much. Or you could just go with "when you have the second or third highest corporate tax rate in the entire world".
If you're asking how you tell if you need a plus or minus 1% correction one way or the other, you don't. You can't tell which side and how far towards the edges you are on the Laffer Curve precisely. The results of large corrections to the tax rate tell you generally where you were but small changes can't be seen beyond the noise.
Now I don't believe businesses should be taxed at all (or be able to participate in politics at all) but that has nothing to do with what rate gets your nation the most income, which is what we're talking about here.
As for the $350bn, you're reading words that aren't there. They brought that much back to US shores and paid a 15% ($38bn) tax bill to be able to do so. That tells me that they are expecting to earn at least an extra $38bn by having easier access to that money. Which means they're planning on investing a pretty good chunk of it domestically somehow. You can bet your ass and the asses of your entire family that they did not do it just to give the President a $38bn Christmas present.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @09:37PM
Haha, that was a lot of words. By your own definition you are an idiot spewing wordy word bullshit. Jesus Christ, you're even talking about your own beliefs; what a waste of fucking time.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @09:48PM
I'll be a progtard over an actual tard any day of the week. But hey, you're only human and can choose whatever lifestyle suits you :D
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @03:04AM (3 children)
The tax law change means that Apple decides to bring profits back into the USA.
No credit is given to the people who made that happen.
Some people don't want to admit that we're making America great again, or they hate that we are doing so.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by c0lo on Friday January 19 2018, @08:29AM (2 children)
FTFY. Because that's all you are doing. In 10 years, while the 1percenters will continue to pay less tax, 53% of Americans will pay more.
Woohoo, what a great Great America you're making, enjoy and don't let others have any part of this "blessings", it's only humane to carry it by yourselves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @08:56AM
If the 1 percenters are using their resources creating jobs and actually DOING stuff, I have no problem... they HAVE to have the resources to do big things.
What really gets me is rent-seeking. To me, that kinda thing should be taxed to all high-heaven.
It sickens me to see my neighbors lose their home to the banks, then house flippers snap it up, and rent it out. On borrowed money. Printed up just for them by their sister business which has a charter as a bank, under the fractional reserve banking law, so they end up effectively buying the house for ten percent of its price.
I do not begrudge our leaders of industry for their wealth... but I sure begrudge the banking industry for sucking so much overhead in the form of usury for funds they do not have. Somehow our Congress deems the copying of a song off the internet as "theft", but does not consider the actions of our banking system, flooding our markets with ever more loans of dollars they do not have, as fraud of some sort.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @09:34AM
You are assuming the tax cuts will expire as scheduled. That didn't happen with the Bush tax cuts.
The situation is weird: The expiration is only there so that the bill could be passed with all the democrats in opposition. The democrats then go on about how taxes will increase in a decade, knowing that many people will ignore the fact that this is because democrats refused to help.
Bernie Sanders tweeted about the taxes going up in the future, and how this showed republicans taxing the middle class. (something Bernie Sanders actually wanted to do!) Ted Cruz immediately offered to make the cuts permanent, asking Bernie Sanders to co-sponser a bill to do so. Hmmm, do you think Bernie Sanders will do that? I doubt it. He just wants to sling mud.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @03:13AM (1 child)
And I plan to fly to Mars in about 5 years.
Write the check, sign it, or get the fuck out.
Will SoylentNews post up any lunatic BS? How is this any different?
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @03:25AM
Apple has more credibility than AC. Sad!
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @03:33AM (1 child)
Trump says he'll make America Great Again. Post it.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @03:39AM
Apple is going to do this no matter how bad of a temper tantrum you throw.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @03:35AM
McDonald's says you will be "lovin' it!" Post it.
(Score: 2) by legont on Friday January 19 2018, @03:44AM (2 children)
will be split for antitrust law violation.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by Sulla on Friday January 19 2018, @03:55AM (1 child)
Trump is so shallow that all Amazon would need to do to get the Orange Monkey off their back is say "thanks for the tax break, it was good for business" and he would bend over backward to talk about how great Amazon is.
But will they do that? No.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @04:44AM
Unlikely the Orange Monkey will forget the shitshow Bezos' Washington Post served up just before the election.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @03:45AM
Apple, Inc. won't be around in 20 years. Post it.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @03:59AM (1 child)
Elon Musk's SpaceX announced:
"Fuck Mars. We are going to Alpha Centauri, next Tueday."
Post it.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @04:07AM
I think you have the wrong companies -- Post It notes are a 3M product...
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday January 19 2018, @04:29AM (17 children)
1) What's the catch?
and
2) What do we lose in order to gain this?
See, I don't trust this to be anything other than PR. We're not told what those jobs are, how long they'll be around, etc., and we're not told who gets the money. Some people (*ahem*) are so eager to jump on their poor-persecuted-businesses soapbox that they're not stopping to consider the longer term here. This smells worse than two day old visitors with four day old fish.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @04:36AM (6 children)
They just want to further entrench the idea that tax cuts for corporations and the rich result in more jobs, higher wages, more investments, etc. Many of these corporations are either providing benefits that don't last (a one-time bonus) or doing doing things they already planned to do anyway and then claiming it's because of the tax cut. Suckers are falling for this in droves.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday January 19 2018, @04:43AM (5 children)
Yeah, and one of them is the first post(er) in this thread. Utterly predictable. I wouldn't believe someone could be this stupid, this self-servingly gullible, if I didn't see it on a daily basis.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @05:09AM (4 children)
Right there, in that comment:
Yep. That's about you. You dismiss facts which fail to affirm your feelings.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @12:13PM
People who disagree with me are all closed-minded fools who are just ignoring facts. Saying that means I automatically win the argument.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday January 19 2018, @07:06PM (1 child)
Feelies? See my sig . . . damned liberals.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @09:41PM
Youussa is a biiiiiiiig floopajabba. Shoulda learnad better readings skills. Maybe youssa could jump into da dumpsta fyre.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday January 19 2018, @09:12PM
You're obsessed with me, guy. Sorry to break this to you, but 1) I've got a girlfriend, soon to be wife and 2) I'm gay, so your chances are about the same as...well, as this not being a gigantic propaganda operation. Cry some more.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @05:07AM (1 child)
> What's the catch?
One catch for sure is the amount of public money that will be requested/demanded for each new project. I'm sure Apple will act just like every other big company, playing one city/state/IDA off against another to get the best aid package. A few local governments have gotten smart and figured out that paying a company $Million per job is corporate welfare that isn't going to pay back anytime soon.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Sulla on Friday January 19 2018, @04:08PM
What is wrong with some competition? About five years ago my town had the opportunity to fill a vacant lot that was bringing in no tax revenue with a google facility that wanted a five to ten year property tax break, in exchange for them being in the building for as long as they got a tax break the city would have received several thousand jobs. This is a meaningful trade when the lot would have not been used anyways because the people who get a job there or come to work there will buy property for the time they are here and then pay taxes on that property - these properties also would not have sold or been built had the facility not been given that original tax break.
For my town we knew how this works because we had the same thing happen with Hynix. Hynix came in for a 10 year waver and ended up staying an additional 5 because they liked the area and the workers they had. Hynix only ended up closing because they would have had to retool the plant, they asked for at three year property tax exemption in order to help cover the costs but were told to f off.
Companies will compete to find the best place to run their business from and there are a lot of factors that go into this, but at the end of the day it is worth it (in some cases) to provide exemptions (especially property tax) to entice business into the area. There was that recent flap about google wanting additional money other than the property tax break in order to move in, but if they are bringing gigabit internet to the area that is a quantifiable resource that your city can then market.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @05:16AM (3 children)
Apple can see the writing on the wall. If they resist making America great again, Trump will find some way to make them suffer greatly over the next 7 years.
Apple might be completely unpatriotic, but they can be made to take patriotic actions.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday January 19 2018, @05:37AM
Another idiotic AC or one holding a partisan interest in the matter.
This is what you gonna lose [soylentnews.org]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Friday January 19 2018, @07:02AM
Patriotism bought with your tax money.
Actually, not yours, and no extra for hospitals, roads, or other infrastructure.
Tax cuts for all! They can buy elections, after all! http://theconversation.com/howards-end-how-the-coalitions-last-budget-created-the-ground-for-the-current-deficits-13848 [theconversation.com]
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @09:44PM
Heh, that is some hopeful faith you have there. If the plummeting approval ratings and trumpgret aren't enough to convince you then you might want to look into sterilization so you never have to figure out raising a child.
(Score: 5, Informative) by c0lo on Friday January 19 2018, @05:35AM
An increased federal deficit by $1.487 trillion over the 10 years [businessinsider.com], that's what you'll get. Which will transform in more cuts in social services.
---
The deficit is to be recovered from "trickle down in reverse". Specifically: [vox.com].
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 4, Insightful) by shortscreen on Friday January 19 2018, @05:49AM
There's no need for such cynicism. I can already see the storm of job postings coming over the horizon. Walled Garden Curator. Head Creative Terms of Service Writer. Obsolesence Planner. Senior Corner Rounder-offer!
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @11:22AM (1 child)
All of it is going straight as dividends.
A few trillion.
Actually, the catch is that under new tax law, it no longer matters where the money is. So Apple would pay the greatly reduced tax rate whether it keeps money in Ireland or moves it to US and pays out dividends. Prior to the tax changes, they would pay no taxes as long as money wasn't in America... 1800s tax laws don't work with Internet commerce.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday January 19 2018, @09:02PM
That sounds about like what I suspected, yeah :/ Thank you for filling in the blanks there.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 19 2018, @06:49AM
It's action we want.