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posted by mrpg on Saturday January 20 2018, @05:44PM   Printer-friendly
from the i-hate-shopping dept.

So one of my three year old kids smashed my 65" LED flatscreen with a die-cast model of the Atlantis shuttle. I was fine with this and was not planning on buying a replacement in any haste but my wife keeps complaining. Would prefer at least 65"+ and absolutely not a smart tv. What suggestions do you have, companies to avoid, etc. Help me SN, you are probably my only hope of not just buying another spysung.


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  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by KilroySmith on Saturday January 20 2018, @05:49PM (8 children)

    by KilroySmith (2113) on Saturday January 20 2018, @05:49PM (#625217)

    It's hard to not get a Smart TV these days, but that's not a big deal - just don't plug it into your network (or give it your WiFi password). I haven't seen one come with an LTE SIM yet...

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Immerman on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:21PM (7 children)

      by Immerman (3985) on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:21PM (#625255)

      I seem to recall reading of at least a few smart TVs that required an internet connection (or maybe just wifi?) for the remote control to work. That sort of detail would be good to know when comparing models.

      Similarly - if you're switching between several sources regularly, it's nice to know whether there's a convenient source-cycling button on the TV, or if you're going to need to find your remote and navigate a "smart" source-selection screen every time. I encountered such an issue helping someone with their new Samsung recently. It's a sad day when even basic volume, etc. controls aren't quick at hand.

      • (Score: 2) by vux984 on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:10PM (6 children)

        by vux984 (5045) on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:10PM (#625300)

        What you REALLY want is a TV that has direct source selection commands. That makes it so much easier to use with universal / programmable remotes with activity selections.

        Then you press 'watch TV' on the remote, it turns the TV on sets it to HDMI1, etc. When you press 'play Nintento' it turns the TV on, sets it to HDMI2 etc.

        What you DO NOT want is a TV that only has 'toggle power', and 'cycle source' commands. Because then instead of sending the On command and the HDMI1 command, the remote has to keep track of power state, so that it knows whether to send the toggle or not, and it has to keep track of which source its on so it knows how many times to send cycle source. (The WORST are TVs who only have a cycle source, and only cycle active sources, so the number of sources depends what else is plugged or turned on.)

        In the former case, if a command gets missed (e.g. the remote was blocked or whatever), or if someone doesn't use the remote to turn something on or off it doesn't matter -- you just press the command and it rights itself.

          In the latter case, where the remote has to keep track of state, now the 'state in the remote' and 'reality' are out of sync and you have to mess around to put them back in sync, which is beyond annoying.

        • (Score: 2) by t-3 on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:19PM (3 children)

          by t-3 (4907) on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:19PM (#625309)

          Do TV's (and remotes) that stupidly designed actually exist?

          • (Score: 2) by vux984 on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:39PM (1 child)

            by vux984 (5045) on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:39PM (#625325)

            Unfortunately, yes. My TV remote only has a power toggle button, and it has an input button that brings up an onscreen display and then you use the arrow keys to select source, and click ok to make a selection. That's the only way to use the remote that it comes with.

            Fortunately, in addition to the commands "power toggle", "input select", "up", "down", and "ok"; my TV *also* has direct commands for on, for off, and for each input, which I can use with my universal remote.

            But yeah, I've worked with a few TVs where the direct commands were lacking and all you could do was 'script' source changes using the input/arrow/ok buttons, and have the remote remember states.

            I owned one TV that inexplicably had direct commands for SOME of the inputs but not all of them -- so to get to the component source I had my remote programmed to direct set hdmi3 (which was adjacent to component1), and then cycle source once. So at least that didn't require remembering state, but it was still idiotic.

            The logitech harmony remotes support remembering state, and scripting source changes to support those kind of devices and it even has a wizard to use when things get out of sync to get back into sync.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @08:15PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @08:15PM (#625774)

              My TV actually has a hybrid approach. It has a direct command to change to a different type of source (antenna, hdmi, composite, etc) and then cycle commands to switch between those. Changing input type always goes to the first one, so I can do composite, hdmi, cycle, cycle and it will always end up on hdmi #3. My TV is a decade old now but I bet many TVs still use a similar system. Mine is a Vizio.

          • (Score: 2) by VLM on Sunday January 21 2018, @04:44PM

            by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 21 2018, @04:44PM (#625693)

            Worse, in that there's also very SLOOOOOOOOW user interfaces. My solution was to leave the TV on HDMI1 permanently and I have a nice pushbutton physical UI switchbox. And the kids are trained fairly well to push the buttons. Its not as bad as you might think in that for one butt-sitting event I usually only use one HDMI source per butt-sitting. Its not like I'm getting up to change old fashioned legacy channels.

            Another thing to think about is I run an optical audio output from the TV to the surround sound/subwoofer system. So I'm already in multiple device remote control hell.

            I'd say the biggest difference between similar young and old people is old people are used to much lower latency that kids tolerate these days, and kids are used to much higher bandwidth than older people are used to.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @08:25AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @08:25AM (#625562)

          you do recognize the "first world problem" inanity of this? the obvious answer may take some time to train, but you already have a voice-activated (and fear-motivated...) remote control. just train him/her. And the cool thing is it will be fully customizable too, including "fetch me a beer" mode for during the super bowl.

          Just be careful rhough. You will not want to rage quit with (or on) this remote control system...

        • (Score: 2) by Immerman on Monday January 22 2018, @03:43PM

          by Immerman (3985) on Monday January 22 2018, @03:43PM (#626104)

          That's nice for automation, but probably overkill for physical buttons. I almost never use a remote, my TV's primary function is a computer monitor within arm's reach, and even watching "TV" is either via PC using a wireless mouse as "remote", or via chromecast, which seizes control of the TV anyway. Otherwise I'm playing console games, in which case I pretty much have to go stand by the TV to put in the right disc, so pushing a source select button is no extra effort. Sound is all on pass-through a separate speaker system, so the TV volume doesn't do anything useful. And I've never had the thing connected to cable or an antenna. Basically, power and source select are the only buttons that ever get used.

          I'm all for including nice features for those who want to automate/integrate - and given the fact that it's all software with zero marginal cost, there's very little reason not to do it right. If Samsung put one $100k developer on it for a year, the resulting improvements would cost them less than one penny per set within the first year.

          But it's also important not to leave out basic physical buttons on the TV, so you can still use it when the remote is lost, dead, etc.

  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:02PM (4 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:02PM (#625219)

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0198XNF6U/ [amazon.com]
    Sceptre 65" 4K Ultra HD LED TV, Black (2018) (U658CV-UMC)
    Seems to be your only real option without trawling Alibaba/TaoBao or direct Asian suppliers

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @08:30PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @08:30PM (#625278)

      No HDR with that one?

    • (Score: 2) by legont on Saturday January 20 2018, @10:35PM

      by legont (4179) on Saturday January 20 2018, @10:35PM (#625361)

      I use an older version of this one; as a terminal only. It is a reasonable device.

      --
      "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @05:23PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @05:23PM (#625706)

      Both of those devices are linux based, but I am lead to understand neither has wifi capabilities (although there may be other dangers, whether HDMI-CEC or Ethernet over HDMI.

      They are both available via Fry's stores or frys.com website, as well as possibly other sources, and seem to range from 42" to 65", possibly with a 70+ inch option. They are all reasonably low end models, ranging in sale price from ~230 dollars up to ~600 dollars for the largest models.

      Worth a looksee, but you may need to watch out for response latency and other issues. I have only been interested in them as possible monitor replacements and have so far kept to desktop monitors due to space limitations, so I cannot provide you any firsthand experience.

    • (Score: 2) by Freeman on Monday January 22 2018, @03:59PM

      by Freeman (732) on Monday January 22 2018, @03:59PM (#626109) Journal

      A Sceptre 32" TV was my first LCD purchase. I got it for $600 and it lasted about 10 yrs. Then it bit the dust. I used it as my TV / Console Screen / Computer Screen over it's lifetime. I would say I got my money's worth out of it. It was more or less used daily over that time span.

      --
      Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by SomeGuy on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:12PM (10 children)

    by SomeGuy (5632) on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:12PM (#625225)

    Go to goodwill or some other thrift store and get a nice old fashion CRT TV. And a VCR for good measure. 65"? Whaaaaaaaaah boooo hooo hoo. Give them a nice color 15" CRT and teach them to appreciate what they have.

    • (Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:36PM (8 children)

      by hemocyanin (186) on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:36PM (#625238) Journal

      That's sort of a "cut off your nose to spite your face" proposition if he pays the electric bill.

      • (Score: 5, Informative) by SomeGuy on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:04PM (6 children)

        by SomeGuy (5632) on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:04PM (#625247)

        The smaller CRT TVs don't use that much power, heck I used to have a couple of small black and white CRT TVs that could run off of batteries. With the larger ones, space and weight are the really bigger issues. Besides, power bills are peanuts compared to modern cable bills. (So don't forget your one-time purchase for a digital converter box, a UHF antenna, and kiss those $$$ cable bills goodbye!)

        • (Score: 2, Disagree) by hemocyanin on Saturday January 20 2018, @08:17PM (3 children)

          by hemocyanin (186) on Saturday January 20 2018, @08:17PM (#625274) Journal

          OK -- they flicker and for those of us with our hearing intact, they emit I high frequency whine. CRTs are only good for target practice or weight lifting.

          • (Score: 3, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:17PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:17PM (#625307)

            And Duck Hunt.

          • (Score: 2) by SomeGuy on Saturday January 20 2018, @10:10PM (1 child)

            by SomeGuy (5632) on Saturday January 20 2018, @10:10PM (#625347)

            I'm actually quite sensitive to both of those, but don't normally have a problem with better CRTs. Flicker? Unless the tube used a lower persistent phosphor (such as a tube meant to display VGA), it is usually not an issue. Personally I find the hypnotic "motion smoothing" on the more recent TVs much more annoying. High frequency? Only if the TV had a bad design or a failing high voltage unit.

            CRTs do still have some uses. Off hand they are often the only way to properly view some games and software that were designed for CRTs. Newer monitors or TVs add delays, blur, wont display at the proper aspect ration, and so on. You could complain that everyone should also throw away their old games and buy new ones, but not eveyone wants to do that.

            • (Score: 1) by anubi on Sunday January 21 2018, @09:46AM

              by anubi (2828) on Sunday January 21 2018, @09:46AM (#625589) Journal

              When I was younger, EVERY television made a really annoying high-pitched whine.

              I could hear whether or not my neighbor had his TV on - but he had an exceptionally loud vacuum tube TV

              Magnetostriction of the ferrite in the horizontal output transformer and deflection yoke.

              Nothing anyone could do about it. Maybe isolating the entire high voltage section in a styrofoam padded sound insulative box, but I had never seen anyone do that. It could have been the deflection yoke sounding against the bell of the CRT for all I know.

              I had an extremely loud monochrome monitor at my workplace, and I used to keep a bottle of aspirin on the top of it, for the inevitable headaches spawned by that machine.

              Hell, I even hear the SMPS driving the fluorescent CCFL in my older flatscreen monitor, but I can't hear my laptop, nor the later LED/LCD monitors.

              --
              "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
        • (Score: 3, Informative) by bzipitidoo on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:56PM (1 child)

          by bzipitidoo (4388) on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:56PM (#625341) Journal

          What's your definition of small? You may be right if you're talking one of those portable sorts of tube TVs with a tiny 7" or 5" screen. But that's not true of 15" to 19" tubes, which is pretty small by today's standards.

          In the early 2000s I measured the power usage of several 15" to 19" CRT monitors and TVs, and a few flat screens. The 19" flat screen was relatively simple, always used 32W when on. This was before LED backlighting. Power usage of the smaller (24") modern flat screens with LEDs tends to be around 20W. The brightness setting could change its power usage a little bit, but the image being displayed didn't affect power usage at all. In contrast, the tubes were much more variable. The range was 50W to 120W. It depended greatly how high the brightness was set, the resolution, and the image being displayed. Every step up in display resolution from 640x480 to 1200x1080 raised the power requirement another 5W to 10W. At maximum brightness and resolution, displaying an all white image could take as much as 50W more power than an all black image. What mattered the least was whether the tube was 15" or 17" or 19". TV took a bit less power thanks to the lower resolution, but I still never saw less than 48W.

          > Besides, power bills are peanuts compared to modern cable bills

          True, that. Don't overlook Ye Olde Public Library and broadcast TV. The best bang for the buck is to wean yourself and your family off this desire to see the latest episode of shows available only on cable. All people need is a little patience. After a year or 2 just about everything is released for streaming download or DVD. Or if you just can't wait, cultivate a willingness to use sources that might be pirate (wink, wink). No one has to pay hundreds of $ per year for a cable subscription. It continues to astonish and sadden me that so many of the public still won't cut the cord. They complain about the price gouging, but they won't quit their addiction.

          As for a monster 65" display size, what's the point? To watch from the next room, 30 feet away? Is it that someone in the family has an eye condition, needs print in large sizes? Or to impress visitors to your home, the whole Keeping Up With The Joneses bit? It doesn't have greater resolution. It's not going to look sharper than a more humble 40" screen of good quality. If it is an 8K display, then I could see 65" being useful, but at 4K or less, nah.

          • (Score: 2) by Pino P on Saturday January 20 2018, @10:31PM

            by Pino P (4721) on Saturday January 20 2018, @10:31PM (#625359) Journal

            Don't overlook Ye Olde Public Library and broadcast TV.

            And on that note, watch out for displays in a big box electronics store's TV department that lack a tuner. These aren't TVs; they're monitors. Some don't even have composite in, meaning you might not be able to easily plug a VHS player, 8-bit home computer, or pre-Xbox 360 game console into one of these.

      • (Score: 1) by toddestan on Sunday January 21 2018, @08:05AM

        by toddestan (4982) on Sunday January 21 2018, @08:05AM (#625560)

        The idea is they'll never (or rarely) watch it, so the power usage won't matter since it'll almost never be on.

        Besides, until the LED backlit LCDs came out, you usually didn't save that much power going from a CRT to a LCD, assuming you upgraded the screen size at the same time. And plasmas would use a lot more power than the CRT.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @05:26PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @05:26PM (#625708)

      At the previous LCD HDTV. Do you want to imagine what the room will look like when he does the same to a CRT, whether 15" or 42" in size?

      Yeah, I didn't think so.

      I would get the lulz doing that to the wife though, I debate if it is worth the time spent sleeping on the sofa, however.

  • (Score: 2) by takyon on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:16PM (15 children)

    by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:16PM (#625227) Journal

    What's wrong with a "smart TV"? It's just a UI. It can't spy on you unless you connect it to a Wi-Fi/Ethernet network. It should be usable without doing so, and could probably do useful stuff like play files on USB storage.

    --
    [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
    • (Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:29PM (8 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:29PM (#625232)

      TV boot times are the bufferbloat of the consumer world.

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:49PM (7 children)

        by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:49PM (#625241) Journal

        If you get a slow smart TV, and not all of them are, you can just pretend you're living in a time with CRTs and no remotes.

        --
        [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
        • (Score: 1) by Sulla on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:15PM

          by Sulla (5173) on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:15PM (#625253) Journal

          We don't watch television anymore, just netflix/hulu/youtube. Would rather do a google spystick instead of samsungs built in system. The smart tv we had is two years old and was in the ~1500 range, crashes constantly.

          --
          Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:27PM (3 children)

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:27PM (#625258) Homepage Journal

          What nonsense are you talking? We had a remote even when we only had a tiny black and white CRT. Unfortunately it was me until my younger brothers learned to work the channel changing knob.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 3, Interesting) by RS3 on Saturday January 20 2018, @08:01PM

            by RS3 (6367) on Saturday January 20 2018, @08:01PM (#625269)

            SneakerRemote! So _that's_ what kids are for!

            I'm an old enough fart to remember a TV my parents had, probably from early 1960s. It had a rubber bulb, long plastic tube, and a piston and ratchet mechanism on the channel changer. You could only advance the channels, 2-13, UHF (whatever it happened to be tuned to), and one position was OFF. There was a jack for a speaker (with long wire) you could put at your location which had a volume knob.

          • (Score: 3, Informative) by requerdanos on Saturday January 20 2018, @08:51PM

            by requerdanos (5997) Subscriber Badge on Saturday January 20 2018, @08:51PM (#625293) Journal

            it was me... channel changing knob.

            And the difference in technology aptitude between the older generations and the younger was summed up as "Don't turn the knob so fast! You'll break the thing."

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @08:55PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @08:55PM (#625295)

            Our first color TV in the 50s had a remote. It was a little box attached to the TV with wires. When you pressed a button, the rotary controls on the TV turned because of motors somewhere in there. I still remember how impressive the NBC peacock was in color the first time I saw it.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:30PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:30PM (#625261)

          *citation needed*

        • (Score: 2) by krishnoid on Saturday January 20 2018, @08:51PM

          by krishnoid (1156) on Saturday January 20 2018, @08:51PM (#625292)

          Not all of us can just pretend [geekculture.com], you insensitive clod!

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by Immerman on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:24PM (1 child)

      by Immerman (3985) on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:24PM (#625257)

      Stability (dumb TVs *never* crash), boot speed (often), and ease of control. It's really annoying to have to find the remote and navigate a UI just to do something simple like change sources.

      • (Score: 2) by isostatic on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:59PM

        by isostatic (365) on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:59PM (#625268) Journal

        dumb TVs *never* crash

        My old LG dumb TV used to crash - at least until I disabled the reverse control signals coming from the bluray player.

    • (Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:50PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:50PM (#625264)

      Sony 930D TVs keep turning the wifi connection on and setting up its own multicast network even if you turn it off. Also, it can't even adjust the audio volume without problems - it's too slow to keep up with button presses on the remote so you'll always overshoot. Finally, it is only recently that a firmware upgrade has fixed the problem of it not showing videos in the correct aspect. Oh, and my expensive 930D, brand new in 2016, has hardware dated 2015. Weak CPU and limited RAM memory means really crappy performance. Don't buy a Sony.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by legont on Saturday January 20 2018, @10:38PM

        by legont (4179) on Saturday January 20 2018, @10:38PM (#625366)

        Never ever buy anything Sony - I learned it 30+ years ago and still stands.

        --
        "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
      • (Score: 2) by Appalbarry on Saturday January 20 2018, @11:06PM

        by Appalbarry (66) on Saturday January 20 2018, @11:06PM (#625382) Journal

        Sony: Our so-called smart TV has what is about the worst software that I've seen in the last decade. Aside a good picture and decent sound it does NOTHING well.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @08:00AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @08:00AM (#625558)

      What's wrong with a "smart TV"? It's just a UI. It can't spy on you unless you connect it to a Wi-Fi/Ethernet network. It should be usable without doing so, and could probably do useful stuff like play files on USB storage.

      Yes, you'd think they should be usable without connecting the things up to the interwibblez, but as others have pointed out some of them require network connection for things like the EPG and some even require it for the damn remote controls to operate.
      My dumb (probably Linux based) TV currently plays most media content I throw at it on USB devices without having a network connection, for the stuff it can't handle, I've an Android based 'Kodi box' connected to it.

      Even ignoring the 'Big Brother' aspects of the technology, sad to say there's money to be made from monitoring your viewing habits...and corporations are greedy, if nothing else. Being a cynical bastard, I'm of the opinion that's the way the people who want the 'Big Brother' facilities that smart TVs offer installed on every device without having to pass any legislation (which would give the game away) sold the idea to the manufacturers and the marketing wankers, greed, and they're happy as they get their 30 pieces...

  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:19PM (9 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:19PM (#625228)

    We have over 50 Vizio TVs installed in our organization. Zero issues. Best bang for the buck imho.

    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by hemocyanin on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:33PM (7 children)

      by hemocyanin (186) on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:33PM (#625234) Journal

      Two Christmases ago I bought a Vizio -- good price, nice picture, but RUN AWAY NOW. The remote that comes with it has power, volume, source selection and some useless buttons, one so fucking bad I had to take apart the remote and remove the plastic button that connected to the actual switch so I'd quit accidentally hitting it. You see, in order to access ANY of the TV settings, you must do it through an app that runs on your phone or tablet and which reports back to the mothership. On the virtually useless physical remote, one of the buttons is to link that app with the TV, and there is no way to escape once you hit it. You have to not only turn off the TV if you hit that button, you have to unplug the POS and give it 30s or so for the capacitors to run dry, then you can turn it on again without having the super annoying screen overlay.

      • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @08:28PM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @08:28PM (#625277)

        You bought the wrong model. Period. Vizio no longer sells those crappy setups. Everything now is easy to use, robust, and good value.

        • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @08:34PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @08:34PM (#625282)

          ^^ Shill?

        • (Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:37PM (1 child)

          by hemocyanin (186) on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:37PM (#625323) Journal

          Maybe, but any company that pushed that kind of crap without making it crystal clear on the box that it didn't come with anything a TV purchaser would expect, is not the kind of company you can trust.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @10:35PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @10:35PM (#625362)

            Had you actually done your homework, you would have known that they were experimenting with a new remote implementation. Don’t blame them for your failings.

      • (Score: 2, Informative) by Apparition on Saturday January 20 2018, @11:30PM (1 child)

        by Apparition (6835) on Saturday January 20 2018, @11:30PM (#625394) Journal

        Vizio learned their mistake from that and the 2017+ models now have your standard smart TV interface and remote control. Do note that they do not have a tuner, but they do sell tuners on their web site if you need it.

        FWIW, I have a 2017 Vizio P-model television/monitor. I do not have it hooked up to the Internet. Instead, I occasionally download firmware updates from the Vizio web site, put it on a USB stick, and update the television/monitor via the USB stick. I have a Roku Ultra hooked up to access Amazon Prime Video, Philo, and YouTube.

        I too highly recommend the 2017+ Vizio televisions/monitors. They really do give you the best bang for the buck. Some people will be upset that they do not come with a built-in tuner, but that's easily rectified for a small fee.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 22 2018, @05:16AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 22 2018, @05:16AM (#625952)

          Shill with multiple accounts?

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by RS3 on Sunday January 21 2018, @10:33PM

        by RS3 (6367) on Sunday January 21 2018, @10:33PM (#625845)

        I have another reason to _never_ buy Vizio: service. I do component-level repair. A few years ago I tried to get service info / schematics for a Vizio. No way! I told them I was a repair business and wanted to become a Vizio authorized shop. No way! I had to pay shipping both ways to CA for repair. Of course I did not. I don't know if they've loosened up now but I'll never buy a Vizio.

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @09:55PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @09:55PM (#625827)
  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Aiwendil on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:29PM (7 children)

    by Aiwendil (531) on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:29PM (#625231) Journal

    As a household, how much TV do you watch on average? And is clarity of image a major issue? If the answers are "less than three hours a day" and "not really" then at least glance at projectors, as an extra bonus if you are good at interior decoration/home improvement you can hide the presence of projector and canvas when not in use.
    (Just make sure it can take all the inputs needed - my cable provider streams via chromecast as well...)

    Might be a bit more expensive, but not having a TV-sized rectangle of fragile dead wallspace is quite nice.

    • (Score: 2) by vux984 on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:23PM (6 children)

      by vux984 (5045) on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:23PM (#625313)

      I don't watch TV, but do use netflix and watch moves, and we play games and the clarity of a large 4k TV even for 1080p content makes the text easier to read.

      Projectors are also a PITA to wire and use with remotes since they aren't where the rest of the 'stuff' is. I looked at them seriously back when RPTVs and DLP and Plasma were common, but never got one, and now with thin lightweight LED models, I don't think projection brings a lot to the table... unless you are building an honest to goodness home *theatre* and want super massive screen.

      • (Score: 2) by Aiwendil on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:49PM (5 children)

        by Aiwendil (531) on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:49PM (#625335) Journal

        Wiring is trivial if the house was planned for excessive light (I have a nice little secondary power-plug wired about 15cm/6in from the celing), but even beyond that you only need a a single cable (power, everthing else you send wireless) which often can be hidden (I tend to run cable ducts in the celing/wall junction everywhere [even if empty] and painted in the average colour between wall and celing to allow me to really hide cabling, and one time has been seen to make them match the floorlevel molding).

        Regarding the IR - either put up an IR reflector, or IR repeater and it is solved. In my case I dont really mind pointing up instead of forward when operating a projector (nor point far left when issuing commands to the secondary pi). Or even crazier, since you don't use the TV to plan everything around just hide the amp near enough to the projector to be able to run a single IR-repeater to the amp (and nothing really prevents you from using PIs as wireless IR-psuedo-repeaters, this can allow for the simple "master power off" to turn off all TVs and projectors in the house from a single button).

        The issue with projectors is that they either are dim, very dim, expensive, (bool)or powerhungry - and rarely (in the sub2k usd range) with good picture but luckily most people has bad enough eyesight to not notice when viewing normally.

        (A thing about the resolution and size btw, currently my 1920x1080 24in monitor seems blurry compared to my 40in 1920x1080 TV, mainly due to the fact that the monitor is about 1.5m/5ft away and the tv is 3.5m/11ft away - viewing distance matters quite a bit [perception-wise the monitor is about 20% bigger]).

        But I agree that a projector is an issue if you demand clarity of picture (or watch it a lot) - which is why I entered that as conditionals.

        • (Score: 2) by vux984 on Saturday January 20 2018, @10:23PM (4 children)

          by vux984 (5045) on Saturday January 20 2018, @10:23PM (#625355)

          Yeah, i guess it depends. My ceiling in the TV room does NOT have any extra power outlets. And worse, I have a ceiling fan that would complicate line of sight from where the most obvious place for the projector to be, and it would be clutzy to work around. But obviously everyone has a different situation there.

          You are right about IR reflectors solving the remote issue. I don't have an issue with pointing at the ceiling, but but if the receiver is here and the projector is there, and I'm using a universal remote... an IR reflector just makes sense. Plus I think its ingrained instinct to point the remote at the picture. Its always irritating if your using the equipment at someone elses house and you have to point off in some weird direction for the remote to work. :)

          You mention using wireless for everything else. (ie all your input sources); how well does that work, and what kind of additional gear is required? Can it do 4k? Is it subject to interfence or latency? I guess in your case, your not attaching much to to it? I've got a PC attached to mine, plus a console, plus occasionally the kids drag out the original NES or intellivision for some lulz. Running wires from that stuff up to a projector would be a big hassle, but maybe a wireless link would work.

          Display latency is always a big concern for games; stuff like super mario bros and even DDR is unplayable if there is too much display lag; plus audio sync gets painful if you are using a separate receiver/speaker system and the display lags enough to get the lipsync out of whack. I used to have a TV that had all these fancy 'modes' "theatre", and "motion smoothing" etc but it was all useless due to lag. Fortunately it had a 'game mode' with no processing but I had to use that for EVERYTHING including movies because the display lag caused by using the processing modes threw the audio out of sync. (And my receiver didn't have any setting to delay the audio -- i've since seen that's a thing in some models.) My only other choice was to grab the audio out from the TV and run it back into the receiver after the video processing was done, and that worked but then I only had stereo instead of DTS surround. Sometimes you just can't win. :)

          • (Score: 2) by Aiwendil on Sunday January 21 2018, @01:00AM

            by Aiwendil (531) on Sunday January 21 2018, @01:00AM (#625448) Journal

            My wireless sources are bluetooth for audio (works well, I like those 3.5mm to bluetooth things when dealing with consumer-tech), chromecast for guests (a friend loves netflix) and youtube, steam link for gaming, and an RPi2 (with HW decoding) or RPi3 for media and VNC.
            The net is an AC2600 class with the router placed so that no spot has more than one wall and 8m to it, everything at 5GHz. Most receiver-units are located very near the centre of the apartment.

            The lag, well, for the RPi it depends on where the sources really originates from (locally is no issue). But for the steam link it is fast enough for gaming but not fast enough to be imperceptible (less lag than the difference between the "Gaming" and "Movie" modes on the TV however).

            The separation of channels - yeah, that can be an issue. But so far none that I've noticed (doesn't say much however since I don't play any game where sound matters, for lipsync it is within tolerance when using consumer tech and adjusted as needed (per movie and selection of speakers) in mpv/mplayer/kodi.
            Interference is not an issue in my case.

            I don't attach much to the screens, just an HDMI-switch that can be told to change source via IR ;) (that however has a steam link, a chromecast and an RPi hooked up to it, I do this with all screens - and use the forth port for any nearby computer (or hook up a second switch if I really run out of ports) - duplication of setups means it is a nobrainer for anyone to just pick what screen they want to use).

            Never tried 4K (nor really seen the point with it - my main movieviewing still is a mix of 480p and 720p) so can't say anything about that.

            I recently has to toss all my classic consoles (well, ok, my sister got them) due to issues involving a move, hence all my stuff is right now quite new. But up until that point it was a PITA to get RF up to HDMI to transport.

            However - I do admit to some degree of cheating - I do have a 5m HDMI-cable laying near each screen as well for when stuff really refuses to work and I don't feel like dealing with things (this is what is hooked into the fourth port of the HDMI-switch if no computer needs it).
            Oh yeah, and my hifi-amp does Dolby and DTS and speaks Toslink just fine with the TV - so with the TV sync is never an issue (actually checked that the TV could talk with my amp properly before buying)

            Regarding the celing fan and power - let's just say that if you don't use the fan it might be worth buying your local electrician a drink to discuss the possibilities :) (do not try taking power that way before talking to an electrician however)

          • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Sunday January 21 2018, @05:32AM (2 children)

            by RS3 (6367) on Sunday January 21 2018, @05:32AM (#625525)

            I also think you should at least look into projectors. They don't have to be mounted on a ceiling. You'd be amazed at the options out there, for very low cost. They have projectors with very short-throw lenses- designed to "throw" the image up, big, clear, bright, very close to the wall/screen (bizarre looking lenses). https://www.projectorpeople.com/Epson-PowerLite-530-for-SMART/Projector/38957 [projectorpeople.com]

            This may not have the resolution you want, but otherwise it's pretty awesome and portable: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01L8E5AIS/ref=sspa_dk_detail_3?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B01L8E5AIS&pd_rd_wg=mW31Y&pd_rd_r=7Z910ZA2C06MBM6GQ5G6&pd_rd_w=YYb0D [amazon.com]

            Or: https://www.sony.com/electronics/projector/lspx-w1s [sony.com]

            • (Score: 1) by Sulla on Sunday January 21 2018, @04:40PM (1 child)

              by Sulla (5173) on Sunday January 21 2018, @04:40PM (#625691) Journal

              Projectors is the most likely option at this point, havent looked at them too much but seen some nice ones out there. Biggest thing for me when it comes to projectors is noise.

              --
              Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
              • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Sunday January 21 2018, @11:09PM

                by RS3 (6367) on Sunday January 21 2018, @11:09PM (#625862)

                Yes, some of them are crazy loud. I don't know why someone would design / produce something that loud, nor why someone would buy it and not return it. Some of them are essentially silent now.

  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Knowledge Troll on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:34PM

    by Knowledge Troll (5948) on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:34PM (#625236) Homepage Journal

    I bought a new TV a few years ago and found exactly what I wanted at Costco with a price that was basically exactly what it should have been. At that time Costco had Panasonic do a few production runs of a TV to their specifications: the best quality display module with the least amounts of smarts thrown in. What I got was a beautiful 65" plasma display for $1,100 - what I didn't get was tons of different inputs on the back or very many smart features. It does include network access via an ethernet cable if you want to set it up and it can play NetFlix and some other streaming services if you set it up. I didn't set that up and use it as nothing more than an output for my home theater receiver so I just need a single HDMI cable feeding it. That was exactly what I was looking for at a price I was willing to spend. With out that Costco spec run of devices I wouldn't have anywhere near as much display as I wound up getting.

    My advice: see if Costco is doing the same thing right now. I believe even if you are not a member you can still use the website to place an order.

  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:41PM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:41PM (#625240)

    I agree with the no network statements. We did something similar about a year ago when I had bent the stand by moving the old 45” around. Went to the store, basically no such thing as a TV without a computer in it anymore. So we got a 65” OLED, looks great. When the guys came to install it, they found no Ethernet so went into the settings and asked for my WiFi password. I laughed and explained that this thing will NEVER connect directly to my network, much less the Internet. We push content from the PS4 or a laptop. Works great. It escapes me why the TV industry seems to think that everyone desperately wants their television to be “ZOMG, part of the IoT on the information superhighway in the cloud multimedia!!!”

    Anyway, yeah just don’t connect it to your network and use HDMI cables that are pre-1.4. Iirc you won’t get HDR, but the TV also won’t be able to get Ethernet over HDMI and circumvent your pseudo air gap.

    • (Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:42PM (2 children)

      by hemocyanin (186) on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:42PM (#625326) Journal

      Anyway, yeah just don’t connect it to your network and use HDMI cables that are pre-1.4. Iirc you won’t get HDR, but the TV also won’t be able to get Ethernet over HDMI and circumvent your pseudo air gap.

      Can you explain this more?

      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @10:29PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @10:29PM (#625357)

        Anyway, yeah just don’t connect it to your network and use HDMI cables that are pre-1.4. Iirc you won’t get HDR, but the TV also won’t be able to get Ethernet over HDMI and circumvent your pseudo air gap.

        Can you explain this more?

        The HDMI cable specs have essentially never changed since the first version. However, the ARC and HEC (ethernet) features make use of a pin that was previously unused before HDMI 1.4, so it's possible some non-compliant cable assemblies could have left that pin disconnected and most people wouldn't have noticed.

        I've never even seen a device that supports HEC anyway, and both ends would have to implement it for it to work...

        • (Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Sunday January 21 2018, @05:58AM

          by hemocyanin (186) on Sunday January 21 2018, @05:58AM (#625535) Journal

          Thanks -- that's pretty gross - ethernet over video cable is certainly not designed for helping people even if it may have some marginally useful side cases.

  • (Score: 3, Informative) by JoeMerchant on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:02PM (4 children)

    by JoeMerchant (3937) on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:02PM (#625245)

    If 65"+ is a hard requirement, you're shooting yourself in the foot as far as bang for the buck goes.

    If you downsize to 49" you can get a 4K screen for around $350: http://a.co/6ohYvuk [a.co] Adjust for quality factors that matter to you like brightness, contrast, color gamut, etc. but, the price of the ~50" screens is consistently less than half of equivalent ~65" screens.

    I agree with the others that, while "smart functionality" is unfortunate, if you just don't give it network access you're not too bad off as compared to a dumb monitor, and these days dumb monitors are much more expensive than their equivalent smart tv counterparts.

    We recently got a touchscreen reimbursed with "other people's money" basically cost-no-object and we opted for the 55" instead of the 65" just because of the weight difference. 55" 4K is already more screen than we need for viewing less than 15' away. In our living room with seating ~20' away, we have a "tv nook" from the 1960s that can't hold anything larger than about 42", and that's fine for normal movie viewing.

    It wasn't that long ago (~2003) that anything larger than 30" (CRT) was enormous, and impractically heavy and bulky for moving into a house. We bought our 42" 1080p flatscreen in about 2007 for about $1000. You can get 65" today for about $1000, but in a few years 105" will be the new $1000 size.

    To me, a quality sound system backing up the screen is more important than the extra inches, in today's market, I'd opt for the $400ish screen and spend the other $600 on good sound, which will not be integrated with any screen.

    --
    🌻🌻 [google.com]
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:38PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:38PM (#625262)

      I had a TCL Roku 49" for about 2 days. It has Smooth Motion that you can't disable. It was mostly fine because the effect was dynamic, but in certain scenes, the Soap Opera effect was quite noticeable and unwatchable to me.

      I settled on a Hisense. Awesome picture and viewing angles (not much washout at the sides) for a great price. The only complaint is the slightly slow UI.

    • (Score: 2) by requerdanos on Saturday January 20 2018, @08:56PM (2 children)

      by requerdanos (5997) Subscriber Badge on Saturday January 20 2018, @08:56PM (#625296) Journal

      If you downsize to 49"

      Not to shoot down your excellent suggestions, but no male geeky-type's wife and children are going to go for "Hey, I know we used to have a regular, decent size TV but I love you so much, I am getting a small one instead" which is what that would amount to. I hererby shoot down your otherwise excellent suggestions.

      • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Saturday January 20 2018, @10:30PM (1 child)

        by JoeMerchant (3937) on Saturday January 20 2018, @10:30PM (#625358)

        I totally understand that perspective.... on the other hand, if they don't already have a good sound system backing up that screen with the hole in it, they would probably enjoy movies more on a smaller screen with a good 500W 5.1 sound system.

        Now, if you're the regular host for sports viewing parties, then - nah, you'll never live down a downsizing, but this is a pretty geeky site and I haven't heard mention of sports yet.

        --
        🌻🌻 [google.com]
        • (Score: 2) by requerdanos on Saturday January 20 2018, @11:14PM

          by requerdanos (5997) Subscriber Badge on Saturday January 20 2018, @11:14PM (#625389) Journal

          this is a pretty geeky site and I haven't heard mention of sports yet.

          I watch my streaming shows, movies from whatever source, and sports (mostly via vipbox.[domain-of-the-week]) on a 42" plasma TV (720p) backed by a nice powerful 5.1 sound system (sports normally end up Dolby Pro Logic = left, right,center,rear) and a subwoofer powerful enough to shake the walls/sensitive enough to shut up unless wall shaking is called for.

          I agree that the sound system provides more than the size of the screen.

          But I don't know any of the TV watchers in my house that would ever go for a smaller screen by a millimeter. The 42" supplanted a 40" 1080p on the strength of its ever-so-slightly larger size. Said 40" is now my main monitor, on which this conversation is now in front of me.

  • (Score: 1) by iru on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:07PM (4 children)

    by iru (6596) on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:07PM (#625249)

    I wish “dumb” TVs with decent resolution and refresh rate were a thing. I’m not really talking about monitors but something like a panel with all the image enhancements of modern televisions.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:51PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:51PM (#625265)

      What is a "TV"? Just get a monitor. [eurogamer.net]

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @08:46PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @08:46PM (#625288)

        In the United States, a TV is a display with an ATSC tuner built-in.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:48PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:48PM (#625332)

          Use that tuner do you?

    • (Score: 2) by takyon on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:56PM

      by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:56PM (#625342) Journal

      Maybe the answer is a VR headset (one not crippled by DRM hopefully).

      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
  • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:54PM

    by RS3 (6367) on Saturday January 20 2018, @07:54PM (#625266)

    Lots of great ideas here so far. I might be overly cynical, but I could envision a "smart" TV bricking itself until you give it Internet access.

    Consider an LCD or Laser projector. They're very inexpensive now, stunning image, portable, zoom-able, can be mounted on ceiling, out of reach of kids, and can be caged for even more protection from the occasional projectile or drone.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @08:31PM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @08:31PM (#625280)

    Just checked my local Craigslist (smaller metro area, only about a million people in the several local counties) -- there were several nice looking big screen tvs. You might have to watch for a week or two until what you want comes up.

    • (Score: 2) by frojack on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:16PM (2 children)

      by frojack (1554) on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:16PM (#625306) Journal

      And be sure to arrange the sale to happen in the Police Department Parking lot right under the cameras.

      --
      No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
      • (Score: 2) by vux984 on Saturday January 20 2018, @10:00PM (1 child)

        by vux984 (5045) on Saturday January 20 2018, @10:00PM (#625344)

        Are you implying the TVs on craigslist are largely stolen? I'd have thought it was mostly people upgrading / upsizing, going from 1080p to 4k, going from 52" to 65" etc.

        I realize a lot of stuff on craigslist is stolen ... bikes in particular. But I'd have thought large TVs would be too awkward for most thieves to bother with. I figured they'd take the consoles, the games, laptops, stuff that'll fit in a backpack or something. Maybe you could walk out with a 42" under your arm, and it'll fit in most back seats or trunks... but a 65" is just that much more awkward to get away with.

        To steal a big TV you'd need a couple people, and an SUV or van to go anywhere with it. Sure it'll get stolen by organized groups that'll clear out a whole place, but i'd have thought it wouldn't be too high on most thieves lists of things to grab.

        Now im curious. I wonder if there are any stats on it.

        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @12:03AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @12:03AM (#625410)

          I just replaced my buddy’s back door (storm door today. Had to do the main door in a blizzard) because some dumbass broke in the door to steal his 55” TV. They stole the TV and remote, but left everything else. The sound bar was disconnected and left there. The xBox and Wii were in the glass cabinet. His laptop was on the end table. His daughter’s laptop and cameras were in the next room. The guns were still in the bedroom. They literally broke into a cops house to steal just the TV. They did just enough damage that it wasn’t worth reporting it to the insurance company as it was just over his deductible.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @08:36PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @08:36PM (#625283)

    My cable box doesn't need a TV. Any monitor with HDMI will work. Projectors are biggest.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @08:50PM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @08:50PM (#625291)

    One of your three-year-olds? How many do you have?

    And this about the diecast Atlantis:

    Due to small parts that could cause a choking hazard please keep away from children 3 years of age and younger.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:46PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:46PM (#625330)

      So you're implying that the TV wasn't the intended target? Great work Sherlock!

    • (Score: 1) by Sulla on Sunday January 21 2018, @03:25AM (1 child)

      by Sulla (5173) on Sunday January 21 2018, @03:25AM (#625505) Journal

      Twins. Also linked diecast atlantis may not be the same as the one used to commit the crime.

      --
      Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @08:14AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @08:14AM (#625561)

        Twins here too.
        They just want to touch the screen.

        Went with projectors years back for just this reason. Wall is so much easier to clean/fix.
        Currently running a NEC PA500U direct from NEC Factory refurbish a couple years ago.
        https://www.necdisplay.com/category?category=projectors&Refurbished=true [necdisplay.com]
        Lenses sometimes sold seperately, and not always on sale. Still a great deal.

        I've used surplus NEC projectors since the late 90's for home theatre projects.
        120" diagonal from an old-school 3-gun CRT, I had to downsize to merely 84" since the move.
        Pics from that project might still be on AVSForum.
        They have fewest problems syncing to any signal I've thrown at them. Solid Kit.

  • (Score: 3, Informative) by frojack on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:14PM (4 children)

    by frojack (1554) on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:14PM (#625305) Journal

    What suggestions do you have,

    1/8th inch polycarbinate will stop anything a kid can throw.

    --
    No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
    • (Score: 2) by mhajicek on Saturday January 20 2018, @10:16PM (3 children)

      by mhajicek (51) on Saturday January 20 2018, @10:16PM (#625349)

      Kid could throw a grenade.

      --
      The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
      • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @12:21AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @12:21AM (#625421)

        OK, 1/4 inch polycarbonate (grin).

      • (Score: 3, Funny) by frojack on Sunday January 21 2018, @02:35AM (1 child)

        by frojack (1554) on Sunday January 21 2018, @02:35AM (#625479) Journal

        it will bounce off the polycarbonate, land at kids feet, and darwin....

        --
        No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @12:39PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @12:39PM (#625619)

          l0l

  • (Score: 2) by corey on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:25PM (3 children)

    by corey (2202) on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:25PM (#625318)

    I have a Sony X800D. I noticed traffic logs that it was fetching websites whenever I changed channel. It was getting info from 'freeview:' which here in Australia is like a digital TV 'catch up' service for watching shows on demand for free.

    So I blocked traffic from that IP on my gateway firewall. The dhcp server gives the TV a fixed IP. The TV puts up a small complaint in tbe corner whenever we turn it on but by and large no other impact. Sometimes we want to use free view so I unblock it temporarily.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @11:09PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @11:09PM (#625385)

      And then the usage logs get sent properly

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @09:13AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @09:13AM (#625577)

        And then the usage logs get sent properly

        As the poster said he has a gateway firewall, the trick is to see where the thing is trying to send stuff, and then block the remote IP.
        Assuming that it isn't a hard-wired IP number the TV is trying to talk to (a good bet, as it's probably a Round-robin entry pointing to some cloud wankfests somewhere...), monitor all DNS requests from the TV box and see what hostnames it's trying to resolve (what do you mean, you don't transparently redirect all DNS traffic on your network to your own server?¹ ) then if you're using dnsmasq have an entry like address=/remote.dodgy.host/=127.0.0.X, or, if you're feeling inquisitive, address=/remote.dodgy.host/=your.local.honeypot and then see what you can find out about the crap they're sending back.

        Yes, this means that you'll have to allow it to monitor you and report back, but only for a little while, and only once.

        Then you make public the remote hostnames it's trying to talk to.

        [¹ Never, EVER, trust that any bit of software you don't have the sources for will use the DNS servers you tell it to....I'm looking at you in particular, Corel.... ]

         

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @09:34AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @09:34AM (#625584)

          address=/remote.dodgy.host/=127.0.0.X, or, if you're feeling inquisitive, address=/remote.dodgy.host/=your.local.honeypot

          Sorry, too many = in there, they should have been

          address=/remote.dodgy.host/127.0.0.X
          address=/remote.dodgy.host/your.local.honeypot

          (you try typing when two of the furry little overlords are demanding some serious fussing....)

  • (Score: 2) by Snotnose on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:48PM (1 child)

    by Snotnose (1623) on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:48PM (#625333)

    I'm just gonna drop this https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1415425 [arstechnica.com]

    Much too lazy to google how to make that a decent link.

    --
    Why shouldn't we judge a book by it's cover? It's got the author, title, and a summary of what the book's about.
    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @02:46AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @02:46AM (#625484)

      There's also an entire website for audio/video gear and media reviews: http://www.avsforum.com/ [avsforum.com]

  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @03:14AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @03:14AM (#625502)

    Considering the quality of TV these days, I'd recommend a 12 oz. tube of tannerite and a .22 LR cartridge. Very inexpensive.

    Get a bang out of your old TV the fun way.

  • (Score: 2) by VLM on Sunday January 21 2018, @05:03PM

    by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 21 2018, @05:03PM (#625699)

    What suggestions do you have

    Yeah well you asked for it.

    I got a nice new TV a couple years ago and no one watches it anymore.

    The "gather in one room" still happens but the kids are watching youtube or chatting with friends on their school supplied tablets, and my wife is scrolling facebook on her phone or texting friends and family, etc. They aren't watching the TV, but they still bitch if I put on what I want instead of what they like as background noise. For some reason my wife can scroll facebook to the sound of a cooking show but not to the sound of a modded minecraft lets play video.

    The cultural activity of "Simpsons TV show sit on couch watch the TV" is dead already. Its not as much of a cultural requirement as it was in the 80s, lets say. I predict the family would enjoy some nice tablets a lot more than they'd enjoy an expensive legacy TV. Sounds like only the wife is complaining... buy her a nice tablet and roll with it. Her memories of "family time" being everyone watching "the" TV show together are dead, not gonna happen in the future, just like nobody does the "Little House on the Prairie" thing of harnessing the oxen to the cart to go to church anymore, its just done. Maybe instead, take her to a Renaissance Faire on date night, see if she gets the idea.

  • (Score: 2) by ledow on Sunday January 21 2018, @07:15PM (1 child)

    by ledow (5567) on Sunday January 21 2018, @07:15PM (#625748) Homepage

    1) Projector (kids can't break that by touching the image, and can bolt it high up on a wall / ceiling).
    2) Any SmartTV with the smart turned off / disabled.
    3) Investigate digital signage companies and even things like interactive touchscreens aimed at schools. The latter are in the same price ranges as TV's now and HUGE (65"+ minimum), and they are generally just image-pushers rather than anything fancy (though you can often buy an Android module or even an entire PC to slot inside them).

    Pretty much, buy yourself a DISPLAY device, then worry about what you're going to display on it via some other method. A set-top-box. A Chromecast. A media PC. Netflix from a console. Whatever. It doesn't matter.

    But, to be honest, I'd go for the method that's least likely to suffer the same fate. Scary stories about Samsung were enough to put you off them, but you still just want to buy another 65" LED flatscreen and put it back in the same place with a house full of kids? To me, that scream projector, unless you have a specific reason not to (e.g. very bright direct sunlight).

    • (Score: 2) by Freeman on Monday January 22 2018, @04:10PM

      by Freeman (732) on Monday January 22 2018, @04:10PM (#626117) Journal

      I got a cheapo $50 range projector from Amazon and it works pretty good, even with a somewhat bright room. The issue it has now, is the wife treated it like her TV. Turn it on and leave it on. That resulted in her having burnt the screen on the inside of the projector, so now it has a nice yellow tinge in one section of the screen. Still, can't beat it for setting it up as a second screen to put YouTube on for the kid.

      --
      Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
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