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posted by Fnord666 on Wednesday January 24 2018, @08:14PM   Printer-friendly
from the film-at-11 dept.

I regularly read the Knowing and Doing blog of Eugene Wallingford who is Associate Professor and Head, Department of Computer Science at the University of Northern Iowa. In a sequence of blog posts, he artfully raises some concepts of film editing to a much wider application than just films.

We start with a blog post 95:1 that introduces a book he is currently reading:

This morning, I read the first few pages of In the Blink of an Eye, an essay on film editing by Walter Murch. He starts by talking about his work on Apocalypse Now, which took well over a year in large part because of the massive amount of film Coppola shot: 1,250,000 linear feet, enough for 230 hours of running time. The movie ended up being about two hours and twenty-five minutes, so Murch and his colleagues culled 95 minutes of footage for every minute that made it into the final product. A more typical project, Murch says, has a ratio of 20:1.

He continues this thread with a later entry The Cut:

Walter Murch, in In the Blink of an Eye:

A vast amount of preparation, really, to arrive at the innocuously brief moment of decisive act: the cut -- the moment of transition from one shot to the next -- something that, appropriately enough, should look almost self-evidently simple and effortless, if it is even noticed at all.

[...] Reading Murch has given me a new vocabulary for thinking about transitions visually. In particular, I've been thinking about two basic types of transition:

  • one that signals motion within a context
  • one that signals a change of context

These are a natural part of any writer's job, but I've found it helpful to think about them more explicitly as I worked on class this week.

And, more recently, Footnotes, expands on that concept and by noting:

While discussing the effective use of discontinuities in film, both motion within a context versus change of context, Walter Murch tells a story about... bees:

A beehive can apparently be moved two inches each night without disorienting the bees the next morning. Surprisingly, if it is moved two miles, the bees also have no problem: They are forced by the total displacement of their environment to re-orient their sense of direction, which they can do easily enough. But if the hive is moved two yards, the bees become fatally confused. The environment does not seem different to them, so they do not re-orient themselves, and as a result, they will not recognize their own hive when they return from foraging, hovering instead in the empty space where the hive used to be, while the hive itself sits just two yards away.

This is fascinating, as well being a really cool analogy for the choices movies editors face when telling a story on film. Either change so little that viewers recognize the motion as natural, or change enough that they re-orient their perspective. Don't stop in the middle.

I am still digesting this, but it leads me to wonder if the applications with which I've had the most difficulty might be guilty of failing to properly handle these transitions. In some cases the "language" is verb, noun (e.g. Open, File...) and in other cases it is Noun, Verb (e.g. Select text, Italicize). Have you run into this? What are the best/worst examples you have encountered?


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  • (Score: 2) by wonkey_monkey on Wednesday January 24 2018, @08:23PM (3 children)

    by wonkey_monkey (279) on Wednesday January 24 2018, @08:23PM (#627355) Homepage

    Motion and Context

    Ironic to put this word in a headline which gives none.

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk
    • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 24 2018, @08:53PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 24 2018, @08:53PM (#627365)
      you should shut up and thank martyb for his blog posting
      most people have to pay to read the incoherent ramblings of a mad man
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 25 2018, @10:47AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 25 2018, @10:47AM (#627625)

        most people have to pay to read the incoherent ramblings of a mad man

        I'm pretty sure following Donald Trump on Twitter is still free.

        • (Score: 2) by requerdanos on Friday January 26 2018, @01:08AM

          by requerdanos (5997) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 26 2018, @01:08AM (#628012) Journal

          I'm pretty sure following Donald Trump on Twitter is still free.

          Standard message and data rates apply.

  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by frojack on Wednesday January 24 2018, @08:54PM (4 children)

    by frojack (1554) on Wednesday January 24 2018, @08:54PM (#627366) Journal

    wonder if the applications with which I've had the most difficulty might be guilty of failing to properly handle these transitions.

    Someone said that the key to user interface design was the application of the Principle of Least Astonishment. Sudden and large changes of presentation, organization, and work flow hindered adoption and learning.

    In systems my company wrote, we found that adding one or two explanatory or "confirming screens" between a selected choices and the subsequent action resulted in a lot fewer user questions and mistakes.

    TurboTax does this (perhaps to excess). It tells you what its going to do, does that process, then tells you what it just did.

    --
    No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by requerdanos on Wednesday January 24 2018, @09:27PM

      by requerdanos (5997) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 24 2018, @09:27PM (#627390) Journal

      Like Gimp?

      In the 90's, I had to learn Adobe Photoshop for a job [archive.org]. Initially Photoshop version 3 (note: not "CS3" which is Photoshop version 10), and then, excitingly, the Photoshop 4 beta codenamed "Big electric cat." My graphics experience up to that point had been MacPaint (the 1984 black and white edition), PC Paintbrush, and Windows Paint (the 3.1x/95 version).

      I recall that learning "the Photoshop Way" of doing things didn't reuse a whole lot of what I had previously learned from earlier software I had used, and that many operations I initially found insanely convoluted until I had done them enough times to make them seem natural.

      After I moved on from that job, circa-late-90's, I found Photoshop prohibitively expensive and so moved on to the Gimp that you mention. I bought the book "Grokking the Gimp," dead tree edition, and sat down and learned to use it.

      I recall that learning "GIMP's Way" of doing things didn't reuse as much of what I had previously learned than I would have expected, and that many operations I initially found insanely convoluted until I had done them enough times to make them seem natural.

      I have looked also at things like Krita (Just slightly different enough to seem alien to me), and later Photoshop versions (some experience with CS1, CS2, and CS4 for various jobs). My experiences are spotty, not comprehensive, but I don't think that the "motion and context" of a raster drawing and processing program that would make it feel natural has been found yet; I don't think it's just GIMP. I would love it to be proven wrong here.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by MostCynical on Wednesday January 24 2018, @09:41PM (2 children)

      by MostCynical (2589) on Wednesday January 24 2018, @09:41PM (#627402) Journal

      The reversing camera in my car turns off when you drive over a certain speed. I am not sure what speed, as I have not been looking at the screen or the camera when it has happened - it was reported by my passenger.

      I can imagine someone who was using the camera would be quite likely to be shocked, and react badly when the screen went blank. If they also turned slightly, the results could be catastrophic, yet it is unlikely the designers would be held in any way responsible. Yet, a sign that popped up on the dash saying "boo" would be considered bad.

      In car Ui land, if you cancel a detour, should the confirmation options be "cancel" and "okay"?

      Also, in web UI,why do web forms get made on monster screens, but not get checked for use on "ordinary" (non-designer) screens, so the next button you need to press ends up below the visible screen, and scrolling is often difficult (pop up *must* be top-left locked!)?

      --
      "I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
      • (Score: 3, Funny) by frojack on Thursday January 25 2018, @12:09AM (1 child)

        by frojack (1554) on Thursday January 25 2018, @12:09AM (#627473) Journal

        The reversing camera in my car turns off when you drive over a certain speed. I am not sure what speed, as I have not been looking at the screen or the camera when it has happened - it was reported by my passenger.

        Your reversing camera should go off when you take the car out of reverse gear.

        OTOH If you actually are going THAT fast in reverse, this may simply be your car's inclusion of the "Super-Chromatic Peril Sensitive filters" [wikia.com] package free of charge in your particular model.

        --
        No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
        • (Score: 2) by MostCynical on Thursday January 25 2018, @01:47AM

          by MostCynical (2589) on Thursday January 25 2018, @01:47AM (#627508) Journal

          Likely around 15-20km/h, (9-12mph) possibly even as low as 10km/h

          No one was shouting "Aaargh"

          --
          "I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 24 2018, @09:04PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 24 2018, @09:04PM (#627370)

    > verb, noun (e.g. Open, File...)
    What I see here (Firefox, Open Office) is: File (top level menu), Open (or Open_File).

    > and in other cases it is Noun, Verb (e.g. Select text, Italicize)
    I'd argue that selecting text is an action (verb).

    More to the point, is it sensible to relate "parts of speech" to "UI menu choices".

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by requerdanos on Wednesday January 24 2018, @09:30PM

      by requerdanos (5997) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 24 2018, @09:30PM (#627393) Journal

      More to the point, is it sensible to relate "parts of speech" to "UI menu choices".

      I would say yes, because it leads to good parallelism, which can greatly help in conveying things understandably.

      When one says that verbs are nouns, and nouns are verbs, however, you get into the cats and dogs living together, mass hysteria kind of nonsense that more than offsets any benefit from the parts of speech being related to UI design.

  • (Score: 1) by progo on Wednesday January 24 2018, @09:48PM (1 child)

    by progo (6356) on Wednesday January 24 2018, @09:48PM (#627405) Homepage

    When the full-screen Windows 8 start screen was released, I couldn't believe it. You click "Start" and suddenly ALL of the context of what you were doing before that pre-command is hidden. Digging through the Start screen to find what you want, it's easy to forget why you opened it and what you were doing before you opened it. This was a terrible blunder

    UX testing shop Nielsen Norman Group did a study on their own so they could blog about how much they hated the whole UI update in Windows 8:
    https://www.nngroup.com/articles/windows-8-disappointing-usability/ [nngroup.com]

    • (Score: 4, Funny) by requerdanos on Wednesday January 24 2018, @10:48PM

      by requerdanos (5997) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 24 2018, @10:48PM (#627438) Journal

      UX testing shop Nielsen Norman Group did a study on their own so they could blog about how much they hated the whole UI update in Windows 8

      And it's a good read, and spot-on in terms of context.

      Their report finished up with:

      I'll stay with Win7 the next few years and hope for better times with Windows 9.

      Ha ha. Microsoft sure screwedfooled them!

  • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 24 2018, @11:12PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 24 2018, @11:12PM (#627445)

    The best menus seem to be object oriented.

    Pull down the menu and you will notice that it is designed for you to select a noun - an object - and then, secondarily, tpo select a verb - an action to apply to that object.

    I've tried to explain this to people but at the time that I present this concept to them they are usually struggling to wrap their heads around 'what is a file' and don't have a lot of bandwidth left for design philosophy.

    However, it's clear to me that the original programmers who conceived of this menu structure - perhaps at Xerox PARC? - were religiously applying object orientation to everything - even menu design - and I applaud them for this.

    Object orientation is a huge topic. I don't think normal people understand how much it influences the design of software or databases because it doesn't involve them, but when it comes to menus, it seems to me that, somewhere along the line, we lost something of value, and have spent decades struggling to get along without it, and that we would do better to spend some time introducing people who want to understand computers, to, not just the abstractions we use, but to the very process of identifying those abstractions - IE, Warnier-Orr Analysis or something similarly flexible.

    My $0.02, YMMV, etc.

    ~childo

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