English remains dominant language preference for immigrants to United States:
How can the Latino population be growing rapidly while Spanish-speaking remains stable? The answer lies in oft-overlooked peculiarities of census data and in the particular linguistic history of the United States.
If one looks only at immigration patterns over the past half-century, it is true that the U.S. has been gaining Spanish-speakers. From 1965 to 2015, roughly half of all immigration has come from Latin American countries. This trend added some 30 million people, most of whom came speaking Spanish, to the American populace.
But this is only half the story. While new immigrants bring Spanish with them, research shows that their children tend to become bilinguals who overwhelmingly prefer English. As a result, the same immigrants' grandchildren likely speak English only.
Linguists call this phenomenon "the three-generation pattern." In essence, it means that non-English languages in the U.S. are lost by or during the third generation.
We can see this pattern playing out in data from the Pew Hispanic Center. Surveys show that in 2000, 48 percent of Latino adults aged 50 to 68 spoke "only English" or "English very well," and that 73 percent of Latino children aged 5 to 17 did.
By 2014, those numbers had jumped to 52 percent and 88 percent, respectively. In other words, the shift from Spanish to English is happening nationwide, both over time and between generations.
If the preferred language is English, why do the immigrants refuse to understand common English terms like "taco," "burrito," "loco," and "amigo?"
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Saturday January 27 2018, @06:09AM (3 children)
are not English terms. And all the hip kids know, Spanish is square, man!
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 3, Interesting) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Saturday January 27 2018, @07:05AM (1 child)
-ved after what at the time was the Mexican northwest was taken by force without the slightest pretense of a provocation, to become the American southwest.
All the spanish land grants were taken from them with the aid of corrupt judges who tried their cases in English without providing translators to the defendants.
The gringos all grew wheat. The Mexicans didn't know how to eat wheat - they always grew corn.
However someone came up with the flour tortilla. It's the gluten that enables it to hold together even when the flour tortillas are quite large. Also because of the gluten flour tortillas are quite chewy.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday January 27 2018, @10:38AM
The provocation was, the Mexicans were hiding gold in those hills!!
(Score: 2) by Lester on Saturday January 27 2018, @12:42PM
All languages add words from immigrants and neighbors. But adding words from a language doesn't mean it is spoken by more or less population.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 27 2018, @06:12AM (1 child)
¿Por qué?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 28 2018, @02:03AM
Butter?
(Score: 3, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday January 27 2018, @06:13AM (10 children)
...vas a tener un tiempo mal.
I use it daily at my second job, as some of our best customers are a bunch of mostly Spanish-speaking construction workers. They are very surprised when la gringa busts out the Spanish, but appreciative.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 27 2018, @07:59AM (9 children)
They need to practice English. Poor ability cuts them off from society.
They need to reach a level of fluency that lets them feel comfortable starting conversations. Poor skills will make them shy or worse. They need to learn proper grammar, proper pronunciation, a large vocabulary, and all sorts of cultural references that appear in common metaphors. To really succeed, their speech needs to become indistinguishable from that of a relatively upper-class educated person whose ancestors have been in the USA for 150 years.
Uh... that all assumes they have a legal right to be here. If not, it is illegal to provide aid to them (any sort of business interaction could count) and you have a duty to report them.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday January 27 2018, @08:43AM (4 children)
They're tired, aching, and hungry. They just wanna fuckin' eat, not get an English quiz, okay? I'm not being paid to teach English, and besides which they'll be more likely to want to assimilate if they're treated well here.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Lester on Saturday January 27 2018, @01:02PM (2 children)
It doesn't change the fact that unless they learn to speak English as a native, they will keep tired, aching, and hungry. They want to eat, not to get an English quiz, but doing so, they are going to eat today and guarantee that tomorrow they will be tired, aching, and hungry struggling for a simple meal.
Probably they expect their kids to learn proper English to break the wheel. Unfortunately as they work a lot hours, odds are that their kids will be educated in the street.
By the way, I'm Spaniard. We have a lot of people from Morocco and other Arabian Speaking north African people, I can see that if they can' t express in Spanish, their job opportunities are... non qualified underpaid jobs.
The question is that in USA speaking Spanish is not very useful unless you are applying fro a job that needs to talk to illegals. Speaking Spanish is not something the high class is proud anymore, it's not politically correct anymore. learning Spanish is just like investing in charity, not in your career.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 27 2018, @01:21PM (1 child)
"not politically correct" to speak your mother tongue? Never be ashamed of who you are.
I've been trying to learn Spanish recently after I got bored of trying to learn French. It's pretty cool.
(Score: 2) by Lester on Monday January 29 2018, @09:00AM
No, I mean that, being native English speaker, learning Spanish is not politically correct anymore.
Spanish language is not any more part of a different and interesting culture anymore, it is the jive of wetbacks. So being a native Spanish speaker, speaking Spanish doesn't show you are a person with tow cultures but a wetback
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 27 2018, @05:49PM
Congratulations, you're part of the problem. I used to live in China. When I moved there, I could barely speak a word and couldn't read at all. That didn't stop me from being able to order off a menu within a week and within a month or two, I knew enough of the language that I could conduct at least the daily living in Mandarin.
People like you are why these immigrants ultimately don't make much progress. Why bother making progress when people are willing to accommodate.
What's more, it's primarily Spanish speakers that get these kinds of accommodations. Most other languages in the US don't get that option. Sure, there are translators for complicated things like medical appointments, but there's no reason whatsoever for immigrants to not be able to get themselves fed immediately off the boat/plane/bus/car.
And no, that's not treating them well, that's being a patronizing asshole that's trading expediency for support. It's why so many immigrants can get away with not learning the basics of the language. Nobody is asking them to become competent speech givers or be able to write poetry. Not being able to efficiently do things like order off a menu holds them back considerably. I remember even with my minimal Mandarin that everything just took a long time. It meant that I was tired and time crunched constantly, but as I got better, I wasted less time and I was able to better handle things on my own.
I wasn't moving there permanently, had I been planning on living in the PRC permanently, I would have spent even more time and energy on the language. It doesn't take that much time every day to learn the transactional language needed to conduct basic business.
What's more Spanish speakers start with a fairly large vocabulary of cognates with which to work, that I didn't have when learning Mandarin.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Saturday January 27 2018, @03:55PM (3 children)
Cuts them off from what society?
Many of them probably speak better English than he does Spanish, doesn't mean they don't appreciate the respect.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 27 2018, @05:53PM (1 child)
It's not respect, it's patronizing. Speakers of other languages don't get treated like that. Look around at all the bilingual signs in the US, the vast majority of them are English and Spanish, even in places like the northwest where we've got other major groups of immigrants like the Africans that came fleeing war in Somalia or the various Asian immigrants. None of those groups gets routine language coddling like that.
And it's rather racist to suggest that it doesn't say something negative about perceptions of Hispanics if they're assumed to not be competent in English when they're in the US when we make that assumption about everybody else.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 27 2018, @07:25PM
Él tiene un punto allí!
Má tam bod!
他有一個點！
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 28 2018, @04:41AM
The reference appears to be to Azuma Hazuki.
That soylentil is female.
Yes, there are a few here.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Apparition on Saturday January 27 2018, @06:17AM (3 children)
Had the right idea.
- Teddy Roosevelt, 1907
- Teddy Roosevelt, 1916
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 27 2018, @06:22AM
English was violently imposed on America, by invaders like the Roosevelts! Forcible imposition, I tell you! Imperialism! Racism! English out, now!
(Score: 2, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Saturday January 27 2018, @07:55AM (1 child)
... comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us
Exactly! Freedom of religion, speech, assembly, all the very first amendment! That's what makes America great!
It's wonderful how the government doesn't make them give up their religion, culture and opinions, isn't it?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday January 27 2018, @10:40AM
"When I want your opinion, Boot, I'll GIVE IT TO YOU!"
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Saturday January 27 2018, @07:02AM
However she is quite a fluent English speaker. I was quite surprised when she told me she learned Spanish first because her English sounds as american as mine.
She's married to a Latino who I expect also speaks spanish.
They have three sons. None of them know spanish. All they speak is English.
"Please teach your sons to speak Spanish," I implored her, "someday they will want to know where they came from."
I have another friend who learned Spanish first. But she first learned to read and write in English. When she was little she went to a Hispanic Sunday school. The kids were asked to read bible verses - in Spanish. She was unable to because she only knew how to read in English.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Saturday January 27 2018, @07:11AM (3 children)
but sometimes they only know enough English to take your order in a restaurant.
Many Mexicans also do not have olive skin. The Spanish originally looked just like other Europeans.
At a really high-end Mexican restaurant a young woman who I was convinced was born and raised in These United States said "May I take your order?"
I quite cheerfully said "I know when I'm in a really good restaurant when the menu lists a bunch of dishes I never even heard of!"
She screamed, threw her hands into the air then ran into the kitchen.
A little while later an olive-skinned young man came out of the kitchen and with a heavy accent said "May I take your order?"
"I just insulted your waitress," I replied. "Please convey to her my heartfelt apologies."
Eventually she worked up the courage to come out of the kitchen. For the rest of my meal I avoided saying anything that didn't sound like it came from a restaurant patron.
I don't really know because I didn't ask, but I expect she thought I was La Migra.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 3, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Saturday January 27 2018, @09:22AM
I picture you as looking more like la chupacabra, actually.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by VanessaE on Saturday January 27 2018, @12:04PM (1 child)
Frankly, Michael, I think you should have apologized only slightly (not "heartfelt"), if at all, and just got up and left. If all you really said was exactly as you quoted, the server needs to grow up. No one in their right mind would be offended by your comment, especially not in that context. She probably should have earned a reprimand for such a childish outburst.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 27 2018, @07:22PM
Decency doesn't need to be tossed out just because the other person is the less reasonable party. When you upset someone with no intention of doing so an apology will smooth things over and hopefully help the other person see that their reaction was not warranted. Dropping the mic and walking out makes the situation look more serious than it is and is less likely to result in any type of positive outcome.
Then again some people do need a good dose of reality and "grow the fuck up".
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday January 27 2018, @07:17AM (1 child)
The Mexican immigrants show a genuine willingness to integrate.
This somehow create astonishment in the "Hollywood" American who knows for sure the only guaranteed-to-work way is volume translation [tvtropes.org] - after all, everybody speaks English sooner or later [tvtropes.org]
(grin)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by chromas on Saturday January 27 2018, @12:47PM
>Links twice to TV Tropes
>grins
You bastard!
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Saturday January 27 2018, @10:34AM (3 children)
In my own family, the old country language was gone with the third generation. I'm fourth gen, on my father's side, and English is the only language I can speak fluently.
I've noted this at work. First gen Mexicans are sometimes belligerent about learning and using English - some will tell you that it is disrespectful to not use their native language. Second gen are pretty fluent in English, and rely on Mexican/Spanish far less. Third gen may or may not speak Spanish, but their English is indistinguishable from my own. Fourth gen? Hell, I've worked with people of Mexican ancestry all my life. Some of them have been here for four or five generations, others have been here since they were fighting the Apache for the right to live. You won't know that they are Mexican, unless and until you start bullshitting, and compare ancestries.
"But, your name doesn't sound Spanish or Mexican."
"Well, my great-grandmother married a German man, then my grandfather married a Mexican. So, I'm almost all Mexican, with a little Anglo."
That was part of a conversation with the number two engineer, on a fifteen million dollar construction job.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 27 2018, @11:28AM (2 children)
Some prejudice there? It almost sounds like you wouldn't expect people around the world to work on big construction jobs or something. Why are you even bringing this up??
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday January 27 2018, @11:50AM
You are the complete dumbass. The POINT WAS, Tony is a Texan first, an American second, and his heritage happens to be Mexican. And, he will tell you real quick how he views things.
Snowflakes who are searching for prejudice will find it wherever they go, but they never realize that the prejudice is in their own hearts and minds. You see it because you're looking through prejudice colored lenses.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 27 2018, @07:32PM
Definitely reading too much into it. People like Runaway invest a lot of importance in things like jobs and money, so this is just his way of saying "this story comes from a successful hard working smart guy." It imbues his story with more meaning and value. Well, to himself anyway :D
"This wasn't just some shmo off the street now! This was a high class guy! Collared shirt, titanium slide rule, and at least two Marvy Uchida's in his pocket protector!!"
(Score: 3, Interesting) by t-3 on Saturday January 27 2018, @02:32PM
One side is native ("Mexican" but really we're tejanos), the other side immigrants (Finns). I can't speak either language, I only know pronunciation and a handful of words, mostly food related as far as Finnish goes, although I can usually get the gist of written Spanish (from attempting to learn Latin mostly), but can't write, speak, or understand anything but the very simplest phrases otherwise. My dad is fluent and my mom is not (she's 3rd Gen), although her parents are. My dad's family speaks to each other in Spanglish mostly, and always use the English variants of their names, which I'm convinced is a class thing, as they're almost universally contemptuous of people from the other side of the border.
(Score: 2) by turgid on Sunday January 28 2018, @04:22PM
... Donda este your hall pass? Huh huh.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @05:27PM
Go to most Acadian parts of Canada that aren't close to Quebec. Grandparents all speak French, parents sometimes speak French, no kids do.