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posted by janrinok on Monday January 29 2018, @02:35AM   Printer-friendly
from the and-so-it-begins dept.

A number of states are considering right to repair bills, legislation which if passed would make it easier for individuals and repair shops to replace or repair electronics parts. Repair.org reports that 17 states have already introduced bills this year and while most aim to make repair parts and manuals accessible, Washington's proposed legislation would straight up ban electronics that prevent easy repair. "Original manufacturers of digital electronic products sold on or after January 1, 2019, in Washington state are prohibited from designing or manufacturing digital electronic products in such a way as to prevent reasonable diagnostic or repair functions by an independent repair provider," says the bill. "Preventing reasonable diagnostic or repair functions includes permanently affixing a battery in a manner that makes it difficult or impossible to remove."

[...] Naturally, tech groups have jumped to make their opposition clear. In a letter to Morris, groups such as the Consumer Technology Association, the Telecommunications Industry Association and the Computer Technology Industry Association said the bill was "unwarranted" and added, "With access to technical information, criminals can more easily circumvent security protections, harming not only the product owner but also everyone who shares their network."

Source: Engadget


Original Submission

Related Stories

Reeducating Legislators on the Right to Repair 11 comments

Last year dozens of 'Right to Repair' bills were introduced throughout the US, but defeated. Maybe this time its time has come.

Right to Repair bills, designed to foster competition in the repair industry, require manufacturers to allow repair, and even provide manuals, diagnosic software, and parts. Manufacturers oppose these laws as it can cost them more to address devices repaired by third parties, because repairs are a source of revenue, and because repaired items are less likely to be replaced with new ones.

[O]ne of the most effective anti-repair tactics is to spread FUD about the supposed security risks of independent repairs.

Without a concerted and coordinated effort to counteract this tactic, legislators receive primarily well-heeled opposing views, and vote accordingly.

Why Repair Techs are Hacking Ventilators with DIY Dongles from Poland 84 comments

Hacking Ventilators With DIY Dongles From Poland:

As COVID-19 surges, hospitals and independent biomedical technicians have turned to a global grey-market for hardware and software to circumvent manufacturer repair locks and keep life-saving ventilators running.

The dongle is handmade, little more than a circuit board encased in plastic with two connectors. One side goes to a ventilator’s patient monitor, another goes to the breath delivery unit. A third cable connects to a computer.

This little dongle—shipped to him by a hacker in Poland—has helped William repair at least 70 broken Puritan Bennett 840 ventilators that he’s bought on eBay and from other secondhand websites. He has sold these refurbished ventilators to hospitals and governments throughout the United States, to help them handle an influx of COVID-19 patients. Motherboard agreed to speak to William anonymously because he was not authorized by his company to talk to the media, but Motherboard verified the specifics of his story with photos and other biomedical technicians.

William is essentially Frankensteining together two broken machines to make one functioning machine. Some of the most common repairs he does on the PB840, made by a company called Medtronic, is replacing broken monitors with new ones. The issue is that, like so many other electronics, medical equipment, including ventilators, increasingly has software that prevents “unauthorized” people from repairing or refurbishing broken devices, and Medtronic will not help him fix them.

[...] Delays in getting equipment running put patients at risk. In the meantime, biomedical technicians will continue to try to make-do with what they can. “If someone has a ventilator and the technology to [update the software], more power to them,” Mackeil said. “Some might say you’re violating copyright, but if you own the machine, who’s to say they couldn’t or they shouldn’t?”

I understand that there is an ongoing debate on the "right to repair". However, many manufacturers increasingly find ways to ensure that "unauthorised" people cannot repair their devices. Where do you stand on this issue? During the ongoing pandemic, do medical device manufacturers have the right to prevent repair by third parties?

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  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Monday January 29 2018, @02:38AM (21 children)

    by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Monday January 29 2018, @02:38AM (#629674) Homepage Journal

    The public's fetish for svelte consumer electronics will defeat this

    --
    Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by sjames on Monday January 29 2018, @02:42AM (2 children)

      by sjames (2882) on Monday January 29 2018, @02:42AM (#629676) Journal

      I'm not so sure how real that fetish is. I see a lot of thin phones locked into protective cases that make my Duraforce look svelte.

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @04:45AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @04:45AM (#629701)

        It's a convenient excuse for not having a removable battery, Micro SD slot or headphone jack. Not having those things is a convenient way of making customers pay extra for accessories and/or upgrade more often.

        We hit the point where thinner was no longer any better years ago. These days, the excessive thinness makes them more susceptible to things like bursting into flames when the battery has insufficient space to expand and bending when placed in pants pockets.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Nerdfest on Monday January 29 2018, @02:57AM (15 children)

      by Nerdfest (80) on Monday January 29 2018, @02:57AM (#629679)

      It really seems to be only Apple with the fetish, and other companies assume that's what people want and follow them. Most people I know would rather have a phone that's 3mm thicker, has a headphone jack, and a battery that lasts almost a week.

      • (Score: 4, Informative) by Arik on Monday January 29 2018, @03:14AM (7 children)

        by Arik (4543) on Monday January 29 2018, @03:14AM (#629681) Journal
        I preferred my old dumb phone. Plenty thin, about a quarter of the size, and the battery lasted a week more than once when new.

        Yes, it didn't do BookFace, but I call that a feature.
        --
        If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
        • (Score: 1) by tftp on Monday January 29 2018, @03:37AM (3 children)

          by tftp (806) on Monday January 29 2018, @03:37AM (#629687) Homepage
          The only problem with a dumb phone is that you cannot use Lyft - and sometimes it is needed.
          • (Score: 3, Touché) by c0lo on Monday January 29 2018, @03:56AM

            by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 29 2018, @03:56AM (#629690) Journal

            The only problem with a dumb phone is that you cannot use Lyft - and sometimes it is needed.

            Since I don't use Lyft (or Uber), that's not a problem for me.

            However, if/when I'm telecommuting, VPN-ing into office's network requires a 2FAuth that is only available as a app. And that's my problem with a dumb phone.

            ---
            My point: one's problem isn't everybody's problem.

            --
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
          • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Arik on Monday January 29 2018, @05:30AM

            by Arik (4543) on Monday January 29 2018, @05:30AM (#629709) Journal
            The only problem with a dumb phone is that you cannot use Lyft - and sometimes it is needed.

            I don't use Lyft either, but it only took me about 5 seconds to prove you wrong. It appears that all you need is a web browser and the ability to receive a text.

            http://ride.lyft.com/

            As I said, I don't use it, so I wasn't able to test far, but it even appears to work without scripting.
            --
            If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @09:06PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @09:06PM (#630023)

            No. They are not, nor have ever been, needed.

        • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by frojack on Monday January 29 2018, @06:40AM (2 children)

          by frojack (1554) on Monday January 29 2018, @06:40AM (#629728) Journal

          "I preferred my old dumb phone."

          Good for you.

          Now run along an play Sonny, we're not interested in your buggy whip collection.

          --
          No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @09:50AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @09:50AM (#629760)

            You're only interested in proprietary trash that constantly mistreats you. A masochist, I take it?

            • (Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Monday January 29 2018, @02:37PM

              by LoRdTAW (3755) on Monday January 29 2018, @02:37PM (#629810) Journal

              Is that what they said? What if they, like I and most likely most other soylentils, desire a smartphone which runs open firmware, open OS, and not loaded with malware? Why cant we have both?

      • (Score: 2) by Demena on Monday January 29 2018, @03:40AM (4 children)

        by Demena (5637) on Monday January 29 2018, @03:40AM (#629688)

        But I prefer a water resistant one. So, no to your requirements for me. This is by and large being brought and promoted by people who do not own an apple phone. So, go buy what you prefer and leave my preferences to continue to exist. Why should peons decide what I am allowed to have?

        • (Score: 2) by sjames on Monday January 29 2018, @04:33AM

          by sjames (2882) on Monday January 29 2018, @04:33AM (#629699) Journal

          Not sure what that has to do with it. My phone has a headphone jack and a rubber cover with a gasket that goes over it and is rated for a depth of 6 feet for 30 minutes. Alas, the battery won'y last a week, but it's decent and thick enough that I don't feel like it'll snap in half if I sneeze too hard. It also has a physical button for the camera so you can take a picture under water.

          And the battery can be changed with a small screwdriver.

        • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Monday January 29 2018, @04:27PM

          by tangomargarine (667) on Monday January 29 2018, @04:27PM (#629857)

          "Well the product must be exactly like it already is; if you want a different feature we have to throw everything out, kill the existing product, and make one with only that feature" is a rather crap argument. Making it a bit thicker is not going to automatically throw all the other features out the window.

          Why should peons decide what I am allowed to have?

          Implying you don't consider yourself a peon, so instead your opinion is valid?

          --
          "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
        • (Score: 2) by tibman on Monday January 29 2018, @06:55PM

          by tibman (134) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 29 2018, @06:55PM (#629950)

          Had a water resistant android for a few years. This one i think: https://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/phones/all-other-phones/samsung-galaxy-rugby-pro-at-t-sgh-i547zkaatt/ [samsung.com]
          Great for kayaking (which i was really into at the time). No need for a protective case because it pretty much IS a protective case. Even though it doesn't look slim it was often smaller than other people's "slim phone" when they put their case on. Replaceable battery too. I would still be using it if they kept updating the OS (and security patches).

          --
          SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
        • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @09:08PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @09:08PM (#630025)

          For the same reasons dems should dictate behavior, and social justice. like, duh, like.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @12:02PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @12:02PM (#629790)

        It really seems to be only Apple with the fetish, and other companies assume that's what people want and follow them.

        This.

        Apple is the one with the 'thinner thinner thinner' fetish. And because rabid apple fanbois will buy any turd produced by apple and declare it the next best thing from god they sell a fair number of things.

        The other makers saw this, and misinterpreted why apple sold so many things. It was not because they were thin, it is because the typical apple fanboi is rabid and thinks anything apple is the way it should be.

        Apple is why you can't have a phone with a headphone jack now, apple is why you can't have a phone with a week long battery life. Apple is the root of all evil in the phone/pc world.

        • (Score: 2) by t-3 on Monday January 29 2018, @09:36PM

          by t-3 (4907) on Monday January 29 2018, @09:36PM (#630038)

          No, no, no. Just like with the saying about money, you left out the most important part. /The LOVE of Apple/ is the root of all evil.

    • (Score: 1) by tftp on Monday January 29 2018, @03:47AM

      by tftp (806) on Monday January 29 2018, @03:47AM (#629689) Homepage
      [Conspiracy mode="1"] They know more than we suspect. They are afraid that sooner rather than later the stream of cheap gadgets will end. This may be due to crash of the dollar, or due to a war between India and China and NK, or revolution in China... many reasons. Of course, this will result in very high employment numbers, but even ten workers with shovels cannot make one DRAM chip. Every piece of electronics will become precious and must be maintained for tens, hundreds of years, until the typhoons blow the ashes away from the Foxconn campus. [Conspiracy mode="0"]
    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @04:22AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @04:22AM (#629694)

      "The public's fetish for svelte consumer electronics will defeat this"

      Fetish? Last I checked, the public doesn't have much of a choice. It's either 'svelte consumer electronics', or live 'off the grid'.

  • (Score: 4, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Monday January 29 2018, @03:00AM (22 children)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 29 2018, @03:00AM (#629680) Journal

    A person should be able to make repairs to anything, and everything, that he owns. I can't begin to count the items that I have damaged, because I didn't know how to get it OPEN! Automotive panels and upholstery, for starters, household appliances, and electronics - no one wants to tell you how they come apart. Even if you're lucky enough to have a manual, it usually starts out with "open Panel A" without explaining how the hell Panel A is released.

    Luckily, today, we have online forums, where helpful people have described how to do a lot of these things. Something like, "Place a small precision screwdriver at the upper left corner of the panel, force the tip into the seam, and pry up." Without that hint, you have a 50/50 chance of trying to pry from the bottom of the panel, and destroying the panel so that it will never lock into place again.

    Of course, with electronic gadgets, that is only the first, and largest hurdle to pass. It's the stuff inside that you were interested in, and that is seldom documented. Call it "trade secrets" or whatever, it's all bullshit. Not to mention that oftentimes, it costs extra for the documentation. I need a fifty dollar manual, to work on my twenty dollar gadget? And, a one hundred twenty dollar manual to work on more complex stuff?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @03:20AM (19 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @03:20AM (#629683)

      Yowza! Sounds like you shouldn't be trying to fix anything yourself. Maybe you should take whatever is broken (meaning before you broke it further) to a professional. Then you can spend all that free time in anger management to learn how not to break things in the first place.

      Remember "Hulk smash!" is only entertaining in the movies.

      • (Score: 5, Funny) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday January 29 2018, @03:31AM (4 children)

        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday January 29 2018, @03:31AM (#629686) Homepage Journal

        Remember "Hulk smash!" is only entertaining in the movies.

        Says you. I find it deeply gratifying on a primal level.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @05:29AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @05:29AM (#629708)

          I find it deeply gratifying on a primal level.

          Is the primal level the one on which you spend 90%+ of your time?

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @09:12PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @09:12PM (#630027)

            No, just money, replacing iphones like they were candy. Its good to be king.

        • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @07:08AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @07:08AM (#629732)

          Society hurt bank account, TMB SMASH!!

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @11:12AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @11:12AM (#629772)

          Says you. I find it deeply gratifying on a primal level.

          What about on an Office Space level?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @09:37AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @09:37AM (#629755)

        Sounds like you are being a smartass with no skills.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @11:09AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @11:09AM (#629770)

          Actually, it sounds like "smartass" is a skill AC has mastered.

      • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Monday January 29 2018, @10:25AM (11 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 29 2018, @10:25AM (#629761) Journal

        We might consider the opposite position. You appear to be helpless, without a specialist holding your hand. You're afraid of breaking an already broken item, so you won't even look inside of it, hoping to find something that you understand. If you don't understand what you see, you probably won't search for a book that might give you some understanding.

        Last week, I had a thermolator stop working. It showed an alarm that water exceeded the 260 degree F safety cutoff. I tinkered with that thing for a couple days, and finally called Conair, the manufacturer. The tech on the phone has a drawing - which I do not. While trying to determine which of two very similar models I was looking at, he asked me if wires 3 and 7 were shorted to each other. Touch those wires, yes they are wire nutted together - and when I touch them, the machine starts running. Found the problem, an intermittent contact. Cut off the crimped on wire nut, replace with a threaded wire nut, and the machine works again.

        The real question is, why in hell isn't there a schematic in the operator's manual? Obviously, one exists, because the tech was looking at it. Jesus, this kind of thing pisses me off!

        If/when I ever see this alarm again, I'll know to look for those wires. The next guy to come along, trying to keep these things running, won't know that.

        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Aiwendil on Monday January 29 2018, @11:01AM (5 children)

          by Aiwendil (531) on Monday January 29 2018, @11:01AM (#629767) Journal

          If/when I ever see this alarm again, I'll know to look for those wires. The next guy to come along, trying to keep these things running, won't know that.

          Unless you do something silly like actually document what you've done and leave a printout with the manuals (and/or the archive) ;)

          (While being a bit tounge-in-cheeck - this actually is the required procedures in some areas; all fixes and changes and changes to states needs to be documented and sent of to the archive [and occasionally to the regulatory agency] and integrated into the next revision of documentation and unit-side documentation. But then again - having out-of-date documentation tends to have front-page-news sideeffects in those areas).

          But I agree on lacking schematics in non-toy grade equipment is just bonkers (again - in some fields you even get a printout of the sourcecode for the software)

          • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday January 29 2018, @11:21AM (4 children)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 29 2018, @11:21AM (#629774) Journal

            My choice was to document it in the maintenance log, on the computer. I was thinking about that though. No one is going to look at the log for Thermolator 1509, if they are having problems with some other thermolator. The manuals? Most of our people take a manual, use it, and drop it where ever they finish with it. The filing cabinets are atrocious. Nothing is ever where it belongs, and finding a manual is near impossible. I've taken to printing things out, and keeping them in my own toolboxes.

            Long story short, we have no real documentation.

            • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Aiwendil on Monday January 29 2018, @12:34PM (3 children)

              by Aiwendil (531) on Monday January 29 2018, @12:34PM (#629795) Journal

              Most people in your field needs to be LARTed it seems - in my field the on-site documentation is put back _and_ alphabetised. The most common pieces used we laminate a copy of and affix to the wall near the unit (or in case of lack of wallspace - on the unit). Net result is that we rarely need to walk more than 25m for documentation and usually less than 5m (we usually have to walk further to reach the light switches).

              The archive is also digitized and everyone in a project has access to all relevant drawings to them via the project platform, so in the rare cases documentation are missing (or if you need to work at the places that is newer than on-site documentation [gets updated monthly]) you can just pull them).
              The digitization came about due to the archive ending up being messy enough that it often was faster to just visit the on-site copies, so we just decided on digitizing everything (and keeping dead trees copies in the archive as well - digital storage fail to meet our archive requirement (at least 40 years of readability)).

              I think it is a legal issue as well somewhere that enforces this behaviour with us, it is at least in a few of our sibling industries between which we exchange workers quite a bit.

              • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday January 29 2018, @10:56PM (2 children)

                by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 29 2018, @10:56PM (#630072) Journal

                I truly envy you, for your work environment.

                Digitization is beautiful. I thought that we were entering the 21st century when they set up a computer in the shop. "Sweet", says I. "We can get the digital stuff, and put it all in one place, and maybe get digital copies of stuff that is on paper now!" What a fool I was. Upper management basically forbids putting most of our stuff on the hard drive. "It's illegal to make copies!" "What?" I ask. "You can't just make copies of this stuff! It's all copyrighted!"

                Sweet Jesus - my own management actively prevents me from creating a digital library to make my job easier. So, we're still using a filing cabinet, and a couple of lockers for all that stuff.

                Yes, I envy you. Fully half of what I know about our equipment is simply undocumented. The stuff my boss knows is equally undocumented - and that's just the way he likes it. He thinks it makes him indispensible.

                • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Aiwendil on Tuesday January 30 2018, @12:27AM

                  by Aiwendil (531) on Tuesday January 30 2018, @12:27AM (#630117) Journal

                  Start to work in infrastructure - this is the norm there (well, is in western europe anyway). The flipside is that mistakes are considered small if they end up with only a few millions in incurred costs to society.

                  Were I work the praxis for the last couple of decades has been to always demand that we get the copyright (or be allowed unlimted internal copies and unlimited modification for internal use and use with contractors and their subcontractors) on every piece of documentation we get our hands on, and most of it are produced in-house (I actually create lots of the documentation - which is kinda funny since I don't have clearance for most documentation nor for visiting the archive [quite a bit of documentation has been created by me taking a few hours with a camera and photographing _everything_ installed and then creating docs from images]). This is pretty much a sideeffect of our stuff needing to be around for decades.

                  Oh also, here in sweden physical documents are getting rare (both private and at work), so when you'd normally just ask someone to mail you a few binders of documentation you now just get an email with pdf:s instead (surprisingly many companies has full-duplex ADF-scanners) - there is a perverse sense of schizotech in getting a freshly created PDF of documentation that states the equipment needed is "an Intel 80386 or compatible with math co-processor, DOS5.0 or higher, and an RS-232 port". (This explains why being cashless isn't a major issue here - here cash just was something that got properly digitized late in the game)

                  Have you tried asking the boss if you are allowed to set up an internal "best practices archive" where people document what they've done? Normally that tends to transfer all the information without transferring the documents themselves while being easier to sell to paranoid management. Or maybe an archive of the current state of your equipment?
                  And I really hope he enjoys never being allowed to turn off his phone - that is what indispensible really means, being on-call 24/7/365.24

                • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Tuesday January 30 2018, @01:56AM

                  by RS3 (6367) on Tuesday January 30 2018, @01:56AM (#630142)

                  I'm a very hands-on EE (I'd rather build racecar engines than sit in an ivory tower), not a lawyer, but as far as I know, it _is_ legal to make those copies, including scanning / digitizing, OCR, etc. It comes under "fair use". It's worth researching. You really need to be able to use a computer to search for info.

                  Also, you should have diagnostic charts _along with_ schematics, wire lists, part location drawings, etc.

                  I do a fair bit of wiring. I know crimps are supposed to be awesome, but the problem, IMHO, is that most crimpers don't measure pressure, so you can't really be sure enough cold weld happens. Good old twist wire nuts are great, just make sure the wire ends are even before starting the twist or nut, but you knew that.

        • (Score: 0, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @11:25AM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @11:25AM (#629777)

          You appear to be helpless, without a specialist holding your hand. You're afraid of breaking an already broken item, so you won't even look inside of it, hoping to find something that you understand. If you don't understand what you see, you probably won't search for a book that might give you some understanding.

          Swing and a miss. I've been taking things apart to see how they work for more than 50 years. And I've been fixing them for more than 40. I just didn't want to pass it up a chance to have a little fun with you, because you are often a miserable prick.

          • (Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Monday January 29 2018, @11:47AM (1 child)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 29 2018, @11:47AM (#629787) Journal

            because you are often a miserable prick.

            Interpreted to mean that you are often a miserable prick because you disagree with me. :^)

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @09:12PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @09:12PM (#630028)

              Interpreted to mean that you are often a miserable prick because you disagree with me. :^)

              No, I disagree with you more often than you act like a miserable prick.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @12:11PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @12:11PM (#629791)

          The real question is, why in hell isn't there a schematic in the operator's manual?

          For a couple of reasons, and reality is probably a mixture of all of them

          Reason 1: Because lawyers.
          The lawyers, in order to protect the company against the idiot who zaps themselves with electricity then sues the company for damages, pushed for "don't provide any repair info" with the device, and further, stamp everything "no user serviceable parts inside, and further, lock everything together so the fools who would sue can't even get inside to hurt themselves.
          Reason 2: Because repair shops
          The business exec's, tired of simply making money off the plain sale of the product, were looking for ways to continue the revenue stream out into the future. So, when the lawyers ponied up with their worries about "joe lawsuit from idiot" issues, the business folks saw an opportunity to make money after the sale by locking away the repair info, and locking up the device, such that you have to call the factory authorized service center. And do you know what factory authorized really means? It means the maker gets a cut of every repair job bill for authorizing the repair.
          • (Score: 2) by Aiwendil on Monday January 29 2018, @07:03PM

            by Aiwendil (531) on Monday January 29 2018, @07:03PM (#629961) Journal

            Reason 1: Because lawyers.
            The lawyers, in order to protect the company against the idiot who zaps themselves with electricity then sues the company for damages, pushed for "don't provide any repair info" with the device, and further, stamp everything "no user serviceable parts inside, and further, lock everything together so the fools who would sue can't even get inside to hurt themselves

            Electrical installations in sweden has a wonderful take on this point (or maybe used to, havn't read the 2018 update yet). Roughly speaking the two rules are "you are allowed to make the changes you are competent to do" and the other is "fackmannamässigt utförande" (roughly translates to "done like a professional would") - in practice this is interpreted as "as long as it works well enough and doesn't causes any issues" and "would pass an inspection".

            In other words - it is ok to fix and replace (but not do fresh installs) the electrical stuff but if something goes wrong you bear the full responsibilities _and_ you've just voided your insurance.

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by leftover on Monday January 29 2018, @03:26AM

      by leftover (2448) on Monday January 29 2018, @03:26AM (#629684)

      Same experience here. Most (aka 'all') of my equipment gets opened sooner or later. Making that harder just means fixing broken parts takes extra time and resources. This does not endear the brand to me. Stock ICs either potted-in or with the numbers ground off have been known to get suppliers blacklisted. It isn't just electronic products with this problem: fan motors with standard-size bearings locked inside spot-welded sheetmetal cases are a particular peeve. Flimsy cases accelerate bearing failure then prevent their replacement. Only a fully indoctrinated BA major could see that as a good thing.

      --
      Bent, folded, spindled, and mutilated.
    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by c0lo on Monday January 29 2018, @05:32AM

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 29 2018, @05:32AM (#629710) Journal

      A person should be able to make repairs to anything, and everything, that he owns.

      Except you don't own your phone (or tractor), you just obtained a perpetual license to use it [theguardian.com]!

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @03:28AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @03:28AM (#629685)

    "With access to technical information, criminals can more easily circumvent security protections, harming not only the product owner but also everyone who shares their network."

    Ah, the classic "won't anyone think of the children" argument... You know they got very little when they resort to this. I think there are two more rungs on the ladder they can descend on and in descending order they are pedophiles and terrorists.
    Let's see how long it takes them to get there...

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Sulla on Monday January 29 2018, @04:11AM (6 children)

    by Sulla (5173) on Monday January 29 2018, @04:11AM (#629692) Journal

    I would consider paying extra (as bullshit as that is) for the "no hidden screws or tabs" version of laptops. Nothing pisses me off more than removing 8 screws to pull off a keyboard and almost breaking it because there was a 9th hidden under a plastic tab that looked like it was part of the surrounding molding.

    --
    Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @04:27AM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @04:27AM (#629698)

      And all that, just to replace a battery.

      • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday January 29 2018, @06:06AM (2 children)

        by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 29 2018, @06:06AM (#629715) Journal

        Nothing pisses me off more than removing 8 screws to pull off a keyboard and almost breaking it because there was a 9th hidden under a plastic tab that looked like it was part of the surrounding molding.

        And all that, just to replace a battery.

        Which battery turns out to be soldered on the motherboard and you can't do anything anyway.

        (grin)

        --
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @04:20PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @04:20PM (#629853)

          (grin)

          What part of this do you find funny, mr. smiley? Maybe wipe that smirk off your face for a post once in awhile

          • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday January 29 2018, @09:37PM

            by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 29 2018, @09:37PM (#630039) Journal

            Cynics don't smile.
            Things going worse is just a confirmation that everything is in the expected SNAFU state, no worries.
            Cheers, mate.

            --
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @07:33AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @07:33AM (#629737)

      I'll raise you cheap laser printers... from annoying to dismantle to impossible to dismantle without destroying.

    • (Score: 1) by Gertlex on Monday January 29 2018, @04:31PM

      by Gertlex (3966) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 29 2018, @04:31PM (#629860)

      Worse might be the screws hidden under rubber feet, which don't stay put if you try to reattach them after pulling them off (carefully, even!). Albeit, more of an issue with mice and keyboards than laptops.

      I should just buy some VHB tape and resign myself to fixing those I suppose...

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by crafoo on Monday January 29 2018, @05:54AM (5 children)

    by crafoo (6639) on Monday January 29 2018, @05:54AM (#629713)

    Full documentation of the electronics, provided at a reasonable copy fee upon request to anyone who has purchased the product.
    No blackbox firmware. Source code must be published and made available to purchasers.

    "bluh blugh bluh muh secret sauce code! my _patented_ mathematical algorithms!!" Don't care. Fuck off. The utility of the public through NOT granting you ARTIFICIAL government-backed restrictions on information is more valuable.

    You know what? Just remove the abusive and lopsided DMCA law, then rip down copyright to 7 + 7. The rest will take care of itself.

    • (Score: 2) by melikamp on Monday January 29 2018, @06:08AM (1 child)

      by melikamp (1886) on Monday January 29 2018, @06:08AM (#629717) Journal
      To put this in other terms, the right to repair electronics is a basic and utterly common sense consumer protection law, and its only medium and long term effects would be cheaper, better electronics produced by more businesses in a more competitive economy, because instead of suing each other over implementing innovations businesses would direct their r&d to polish the products and the tech. And of course, if we talk about effectively repairing modern electronics, it implies the right to repair the software component, and the consumer should hope this is how the law will be interpreted.
      • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by c0lo on Monday January 29 2018, @06:16AM

        by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 29 2018, @06:16AM (#629720) Journal

        To put this in other terms, the right to repair electronics is a basic and utterly common sense consumer protection law

        "common sense consumer protection law"?

        Wow, so many questions, so little time. Like:
        - how did you manage to travels between Universes?
        - does your Universe have obese people too?
        - do you have flying cars already?

        --
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
    • (Score: 2) by frojack on Monday January 29 2018, @07:02AM (2 children)

      by frojack (1554) on Monday January 29 2018, @07:02AM (#629730) Journal

      Right to repair means you can restore it to essentially new condition. Replace a broken screen, replace a failing battery.
      Maybe even provide an alternative os.

      Doesn't mean you get source code. Doesn't mean you get access to binary blobs running the radios or driving the screen. You don't get
      Circuit diagrams. You don't need anything like that to do reasonable repair of a phone.

      Reach too far, demand too much and that's why companies dig in their heels and stone wall everybody.

      --
      No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @09:03AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @09:03AM (#629751)

        Reach too far, demand too much and that's why companies dig in their heels and stone wall everybody.

        Why? It's a time-honoured strategy in legislation. Make an over the top bill with outrageous stuff just to get everyone up in a tizzy so then you have room to compromise with your opponents when you finally have to sit down with them and write something more acceptable. When they try to make you strike off a few clauses here and there, you can ask them to remove other stuff instead, and then you look more reasonable. If you presented legislation with only what you couldn't live without then you'd have to compromise the essentials out when the time came to negotiate! You see it done all the time in legislation benefiting large corporations, so why can't the other side play that game too?

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @09:47PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @09:47PM (#630044)

          Giantcorp has more money to buy lobbyists and legislators than you.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by stormwyrm on Monday January 29 2018, @06:28AM

    by stormwyrm (717) on Monday January 29 2018, @06:28AM (#629721) Journal

    With access to technical information, criminals can more easily circumvent security protections, harming not only the product owner but also everyone who shares their network.

    So you're admitting that your gear is already insecure, or more charitably has not really been designed with security in mind, and only requires an opponent with the ability to reverse engineer your stuff to break it? Real security is such that the system will remain secure even if all technical information about the security system is disclosed. As usual, Schneier has an essay [schneier.com] discussing the issue in depth:

    The argument that secrecy is good for security is naive, and always worth rebutting. Secrecy is beneficial to security only in limited circumstances, and certainly not with respect to vulnerability or reliability information. Secrets are fragile; once they're lost, they're lost forever. Security that relies on secrecy is also fragile; once secrecy is lost there's no way to recover security. Trying to base security on secrecy is simply bad design.

    --
    Numquam ponenda est pluralitas sine necessitate.
  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by looorg on Monday January 29 2018, @06:38AM (4 children)

    by looorg (578) on Monday January 29 2018, @06:38AM (#629727)

    So Washington State, home to Microsoft; Amazon and Boeing and a few others, are going to be like Amish country soon then cause I seriously doubt manufacturers are about to change the way they make electronics these days so that you can repair them at home. A lot of items that was previously mechanical in nature and usually then fixable -- you replaced one defective component and the machine usually ran again -- are not the same as modern electronics, unless you have soldering skills with robotic precision otherwise you replace large boxes filled with various systems (even if only one of them broke). Sure it's both "repairing" but not really in the same spirit. Sure I could repair my phone if by repair they mean replace the entire motherboard (or whatever they are called for phones) with all the components and then be done even tho there was perhaps just one component that was broken. That isn't really repairing in my mind. But then perhaps we just have slightly different ideas about what entails repairing.

    I talked to my Dad about it some time ago, he spend part of his life repairing cars and is basically now of the idea that you don't really repair cars anymore unless its an obvious mechanical issue instead when something breaks you hook it up to a diagnostics machine that just tells you which box you should replace. You order said box, take out the old, insert new and then done. In essence you have now probably repairs many times the amount of systems compared to the one that was actually broken. This is then in comparison to his old cars that he still repairs such as his Ford Thunderbird -- he can repair more or less everything in that, and only repairing what actually breaks. But then the amount of electronics and computers in it are quite slim to none.

    prevent reasonable diagnostic or repair functions by an independent repair provider

    What is reasonable again? If companies that make them no longer even repair them but instead of just swap them then what is reasonable? Having things repairable might just go against current miniaturization trends. It's not that I would mind, its was easier when the phone fit in the hand instead of just becoming smaller and smaller but then I guess now that trend has reversed on its own since you want more and more screen area.

    Preventing reasonable diagnostic or repair functions includes permanently affixing a battery in a manner that makes it difficult or impossible to remove.

    So they are not allowed to brick devices by filling them with epoxy of some kind any more. Question becomes then how many and which components are required to have this "easy" switch and swap mechanics? Battery seems to be one. I guess they'll just plan obsolescence around that then and make it so that the thing that holds the battery can only survive one or two swaps before that breaks to and have to be replaced and that sucker is just soldered one right next to the cpu or some battery of components making it hell on earth to replace.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by frojack on Monday January 29 2018, @07:14AM (1 child)

      by frojack (1554) on Monday January 29 2018, @07:14AM (#629735) Journal

      People need to replace screens, batteries, and maybe a push button or some such.
      Beyond that it is board level subcomponent replacement as you explain.

      And once the cost of parts exceeds the purchase price of a new phone nobody is going to buy those parts except hobbyists.
      Not sure the right to repair should be expanded to mean perpetual support to hobbyists.

      --
      No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @08:37AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @08:37AM (#629746)

        And why not? You say yourself that once the cost of parts start exceeding the cost of a new replacement people will just buy the replacement. Meaning this won't change anything in the long run except help an extra segment of the population for anything over a certain degree of repair. But everyone else would benefit from the lesser repairs that would be required to be made user-possible.

    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @09:44AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @09:44AM (#629757)

      Firstly, fuck the miniaturization trends.

      Secondly, why the hell are you so mad when there are still plenty of stuff you can repair? Are you an Apple representive?

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @04:35PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @04:35PM (#629861)

      I live in Washington. I read this news as meaning I’ll soon have to drive to Canada to buy an iPhone.
      Washington’s government is totalitarian in the sense that it tries to pervade and regulate every facet of life: the state leaves nothing beyond its power. I can’t wait to find a job back in America.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @08:37AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @08:37AM (#629745)
    ...for in his heart he deems himself your master.
  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Bot on Monday January 29 2018, @08:43AM (1 child)

    by Bot (3902) on Monday January 29 2018, @08:43AM (#629748) Journal

    Those who drafted the bill know that washington state is too small to take on the likes of apple. Law to lawsuit, the bigger wins.

    Good luck enforcing the ban too.

    What about something like this:
    1. taking apart any piece of electronic MUST be obtainable for free on the assistance network. Ditto for remounting. And the damages incurred in mounting/remounting are on them.
    2. the sum of the price of all parts of a piece must not exceed 2x the selling price of the piece. Which is good to prevent other questionable commercial practices see blades vs razor.

    --
    Account abandoned.
    • (Score: 2) by t-3 on Monday January 29 2018, @09:54PM

      by t-3 (4907) on Monday January 29 2018, @09:54PM (#630052)

      The razor thing is why I use an old school safety razor. It also cuts through all those weird cowlicks on my neck that the multiblade pos would leave as stubble and razor bumps.

  • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday January 29 2018, @04:25PM (1 child)

    by Phoenix666 (552) on Monday January 29 2018, @04:25PM (#629855) Journal

    I am surprised bills ensuring the right to repair have even made it to legislatures. No corporation would advocate it. It's hard to imagine any consumer advocating for it, either, because they've all been trained by planned obsolescence to an extreme degree. Some feature of your device has broken or sticks? No problem, quick trip to the store or website and order a whole new one.

    I do hope such bills succeed, though. The right to repair is fundamental. I'd take it one step further and say we need a right to manufacture.

    --
    Washington DC delenda est.
    • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday January 29 2018, @05:53PM

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 29 2018, @05:53PM (#629907) Journal

      It is important that consumers preserve their right to remove the tubes and take them down to the local pharmacy's tube tester.

      --
      People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
  • (Score: 2) by ilsa on Monday January 29 2018, @08:47PM

    by ilsa (6082) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 29 2018, @08:47PM (#630018)

    Woooooow, did they seriously pull the "Think about the criminalz!" card?

    I can only assume that this bill is causing the consumer electronics industry to collectively crap their pants. This will not only destroy their lucrative "Authorized repair partner" programs, but worse still it will destroy their ability to shove their planned obsolescence down our throats.

  • (Score: 1) by Ken on Monday January 29 2018, @10:12PM

    by Ken (5985) on Monday January 29 2018, @10:12PM (#630059)

    This law may pass.
    But it will be also be circumvented.
    Loopholes will be written into the law.
    Special exemptions will be allowed afterwards.

    It will never completely deliver what it promises.

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