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posted by janrinok on Saturday February 03 2018, @12:02AM   Printer-friendly
from the echoes-of-Bosnia,-Iraq-et-al dept.

Scores of Rohingya villagers in Myanmar have been massacred and buried in 5 mass graves, according to an exclusive investigation by the Associated Press news agency.

The report by the news agency on Thursday includes witness testimony from two dozen survivors and relatives of victims, as well as time-stamped mobile phone footage of the aftermath of the attack.

Estimates suggest 400 members of the persecuted minority were killed by Burmese troops.

In one massacre, a group of men were picking teams for a local football-like game called 'chinlone' in the village of Gu Dar Pyin, when soldiers began firing at them.

A survivor named Noor Kadir later found six of his friends buried in two separate mass graves. He said the bodies of the victims were only recogniseable through the colour of their shorts.

The mass killing is believed to have taken place on August 27 and survivors told the Associated Press that soldiers had tried to cover up evidence of the atrocity.

Video obtained by the agency indicates attempts at using acid to remove the bodies.

[...]

Widely regarded as one of the most persecuted minorities in the world, the mainly Muslim Rohingya people, are denied citizenship by the Burmese government, which claims they are not native to Myanmar.


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  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @12:37AM (11 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @12:37AM (#632273)

    Widely regarded as one of the most persecuted minorities in the world, the mainly Muslim Rohingya people, are denied citizenship by the Burmese government, which claims they are not native to Myanmar.

    Does anybody else see the problem? Muslims cause problems wherever they go, there is no persecution of Hindus or Sheiks. Perhaps when Muslims stop being obnoxious someone will give a shit, while they're slaughtering Coptics in Egypt or blowing people up, we will ignore the pity-play and see Islam as the evil that needs removing. We purged creationists from the debate and 7th century psychopathic warlords have no relevance to the modern world, muslims can just fuck off. I applaud the Burmese junta.

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Saturday February 03 2018, @01:45AM (8 children)

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Saturday February 03 2018, @01:45AM (#632301) Journal

      Obvious troll is obvious.

      In this case, it's Buddhists persecuting Muslims [wikipedia.org] if anyone's wondering about that whole "reality" thing.

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @01:54AM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @01:54AM (#632304)

        Of all people, when you piss off BUDDHISTS enough to make them violent, you deserve what's coming to you.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @01:57AM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @01:57AM (#632305)

          I would say Christians should be harder to piss off than Buddhists, ya know turn the other cheek and all. We've seen how that works out in reality. How about murder and persecution are just not OK?

          Woops, responded to the bigot, wonder what shite will come out now.

          • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @02:31AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @02:31AM (#632317)

            When you have an infestation of cockroaches in your house, see how far the peace and brotherhood argument lasts.

            • (Score: 2) by beckett on Saturday February 03 2018, @10:38AM

              by beckett (1115) on Saturday February 03 2018, @10:38AM (#632461)

              Wow flashback to old AD&D "True Neutral Arguments" over funyuns and mountain dew that devolved into fistfights.

              n.b. playing "Risk" didn't turn out much better

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @03:31AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @03:31AM (#632333)

        Basically it is this: don't start a genocide you can't finish.

        Rohingya invaded Burma (Myanmar), moved in, got comfortable, and then decided to genocide those infidel Buddhists.

        That didn't work out so well. It's hard to do a genocide when you are severely outnumbered.

        Look, to get the Buddhists pissed off enough to kill you, you have to be seriously awful. I'm not going to shed a tear. It is completely disgusting that people feel any pity for the Rohingya. They could have stayed in Bangladesh, which is at least a Muslim country. They could have... maybe NOT tried to genocide the population of the country they invaded. But no, because... Muslims gonna Muslim.

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @10:36AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @10:36AM (#632460)

        What is it with liberals and Muslims lately?

        That idea that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" is mostly not true. Sure, there is conflict between liberals and conservatives, and there is conflict between Muslims and conservatives, but you're nuts if you think that you'll get along great with Muslims. One could consider the Muslims to be a different sort of conservative, preferring to conserve the 7th century values.

        You can forget about women's rights. Women become belongings to be traded. You can forget about LGBT rights. It is required to throw them from high places. You can forget about science. Muslims are creationist. You can forget about emancipation. Slavery is allowed.

        It is only international pressure that put a stop to slavery in much of the Muslim world, but that won't work if the mighty USA goes Muslim. In the 1950s, people in Saudi Arabia were still legally buying and selling black people. (today it happens illegally on web sites that specialize in it) You might notice that there are no black people in Saudi Arabia. Well yes, they don't reproduce when castrated.

        Seriously, you are suicidal. I wouldn't care, except that you are dragging my family along with you!

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @01:29PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @01:29PM (#632514)

          Uhh anyone can be a slave, not just blacks.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @10:43PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @10:43PM (#632700)

        jeez whatever they did to make Buddhists angry, it should be mentioned...

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Grishnakh on Saturday February 03 2018, @02:28AM

      by Grishnakh (2831) on Saturday February 03 2018, @02:28AM (#632315)

      Muslims cause problems wherever they go, there is no persecution of Hindus or Sheiks.

      -1 Ignorant. "Sheiks" are muslim rulers in the middle east. You're thinking of "Sikhs", a religious minority in India, who are famous for always wearing turbans. And Sikhs have indeed been persecuted by their neighbors and countrymen in the past.

      while they're slaughtering Coptics in Egypt or blowing people up,

      The muslims in Egypt are not the same as the Muslims in Burma/Myanmar, India, Malaysia, etc. Honestly, if you want to bash a whole religious/ethnic group for being obnoxious and causing problems, you should be probably be just bashing Arab muslims. They're the ones that seem to cause the most problems. Their neighbors, the Kurds, are by most accounts pretty cool people (don't ask the Turks though), but their Arab countrymen have been oppressing them for ages. The muslims in Phillipines and Indonesia seem to be jerks too, but when was the last time you heard of the muslims in Malaysia causing trouble? The ones in India don't seem to be problematic these days either.

      We purged creationists from the debate

      Huh? No we didn't. They're probably a majority of Christians in the USA today. Our Vice President is even one of them! What kind of backwards country elects a Creationist as VP?

      and 7th century psychopathic warlords have no relevance to the modern world, muslims can just fuck off.

      Yet you probably voted for the ticket with the guy who believes strongly in 7th century religious bullshit that has no relevance to the modern world.

    • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday February 03 2018, @02:41AM

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 03 2018, @02:41AM (#632324) Journal

      Dude - I read the article. I visited the Rohingya .org site. I read some of their stuff. I'm not very sympathetic to Muslims - but - just maybe - it's not *ALL* their fault?

      When you find a blame-free population of people whose ancestors have never wronged any other people, from the beginning of time, let me know.

      Meanwhile, I'm not taking sides on this one. I'm not falling for the purported pity play, nor am I applauding the Burmese government.

  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @12:49AM (15 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @12:49AM (#632276)

    They're not so innocent [atimes.com]. And they are not citizens. They came from Bangladesh. And where there's smoke, there's fire [reuters.com]...

    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday February 03 2018, @12:59AM (8 children)

      by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Saturday February 03 2018, @12:59AM (#632280) Homepage

      Yeah really. If Burma had a government with a Western mentality, then this headline would have read "Mass-grave of non-Muslim minorities Uncovered in Myanmar."

      Don't be France or Germany and let the largest scumbag contingent in the world take root in your country. China, for all it's faults, also has the right attitude towards Islam.

      • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Saturday February 03 2018, @01:23AM (1 child)

        by bob_super (1357) on Saturday February 03 2018, @01:23AM (#632290)

        I'm all for forbidding all religions and nuking all holy sites, but who would we get to blame next time we're angry ?

        • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @01:24AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @01:24AM (#632292)

          Blame the millennials.

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @01:53AM (5 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @01:53AM (#632303)

        My god, fucking France is a shithole right now. The"refugees" are rioting! How can people let this happen? Ah, never mind, Europe, whaddya expect? People with balls?

        • (Score: 0, Troll) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday February 03 2018, @02:16AM (4 children)

          by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Saturday February 03 2018, @02:16AM (#632313) Homepage

          The end result of "political correctness" -- being powerless to object to your society's planned and painful demise, and being labeled a pariah if you do.

          • (Score: 3, Informative) by janrinok on Saturday February 03 2018, @08:15AM (2 children)

            by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 03 2018, @08:15AM (#632411) Journal

            Funny that you should ciritcise the European Nations as being cowards. The countries that you have quoted have fought and died alongside the US military in Iraq, Syria, Bosnia, Kosovo, Kuwait and elsewhere. I suppose that using your logic you would claim that the US forces involved must also be cowards, right?

            I don't see it that way, all those who have lost their lives are as worthy as each other, and deserve the same degree of respect.

            Your selective history does not reflect what is actually happening in the world.

            • (Score: 3, Touché) by shortscreen on Saturday February 03 2018, @09:06AM

              by shortscreen (2252) on Saturday February 03 2018, @09:06AM (#632428) Journal

              I'm not certain what post you're replying to, but if the claim was "Europeans are cowardly," I'd hope you can come up with a better rebuttal than "we even tagged along as US sidekicks during some of its imperial misadventures!"

            • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @07:29PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @07:29PM (#632640)

              I traveled in Europe several times when Bosnia and Kosovo were building up and when they were hot. The European position even among the peaceniks was to whine with increasing urgency about the need for the US to step in. Perhaps it was my ignorance of European geopolitics but it seems that while they were willing to join in, not a single country was willing to even think about taking the lead. Maybe they were too close geographically or maybe politically. However it was interesting that even those people who I knew used to criticize US military involvement began complaining that the US had not intervened already. I think the problems went on a few too many years before any move was made to stop them because of that.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 04 2018, @01:13AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 04 2018, @01:13AM (#632737)

            "political correctness"

            As illustrated by the downmods we received up above. It will be the downfall of the species if we let this continue. The time to start shooting back is fast approaching.

    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by bobthecimmerian on Saturday February 03 2018, @03:41AM (4 children)

      by bobthecimmerian (6834) on Saturday February 03 2018, @03:41AM (#632338)

      From what I understand, there is a group within the Rohingya people that are militant, but the Myanmar government is engaged in mass attacks against all of them. For example, Reuters journalists trying to investigate in Myanmar were arrested last month ( https://www.reuters.com/article/us-myanmar-journalists/two-reuters-journalists-arrested-in-myanmar-face-official-secrets-charges-idUSKBN1E71CO [reuters.com] ) and Bill Richardson was on an international advisory panel that was supposed to work with the Myanmar government on the refugee crisis and he quit just over a week ago and claimed the whole thing was a joke ( http://indianexpress.com/article/world/richardson-resigns-from-rohingya-refugee-panel-5038377/ [indianexpress.com] )

      You linked to one attack in which 9 Myanmar police were killed. I don't mean to downplay how terrible that was. In another attack later supposedly - supposedly - the Rohingya attacked and killed 12 government security personnel at the loss of 77 of their own. ( https://apnews.com/37103be49dd249af8f2e7297b599fb41/Myanmar:-25-dead-in-militant-attacks-on-police,-border-posts [apnews.com] ) And in turn 650,000 people are displaced, media trying to investigate are arrested, and we have confirmation of mass graves. I'm inclined to believe the Myanmar government is the bad guy here, and the biggest reason the Rohingya are fighting back is because they're getting wiped out anyway so they might as well take a few of their executioners with them. But do your own reading.

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @07:51AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @07:51AM (#632403)

        You are guilty if you:

        a. fail to take action against a militant group
        b. let that militant group blend in with other people
        c. tacitly approve of the actions of the militant group
        d. provide the militant group with food, shelter, and medical care

        If the government just ignores the Rohingya, the problem only grows. At some point there would be enough of them to overthrow the government. Once that happens, Buddhists die left and right. Coexistence with Muslims is only possible, somewhat, until they have enough power to genocide the infidels.

      • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @02:15PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @02:15PM (#632525)

        The Rohingya are illegal aliens just like the ones in the states. If Burma had the guts and didn't care about stupid public relations, they would send these people back to their home country. This "migration" is really invasion. The same is happening in Europe right now. If people from shithole countries want to come here, they have to leave all their cultural shit at the border. Except the food. We like their food, and some of the music, and some of their women, a little variety there is never a bad thing. We should just keep the men out. They're nothing but trouble. We don't want them bringing their wars here... oops, too late, we screwed that pooch real good in the name of appeasement, a dominant European trait that always gets them into trouble.

        Burma is a dictatorship, they should have no trouble doing the right thing in ridding themselves of this problem post haste, no matter how offensive it would be to all those SJWs out there. Appeasement and compromise will be the downfall of liberal/civil societies, and the worst of the worst will dominate the planet because people are too afraid to fight back. To stop the monster, you have to be the monster, accept it and embrace it, and let's purge the psychopaths out of the population.

        • (Score: 2) by canopic jug on Sunday February 04 2018, @05:41AM (1 child)

          by canopic jug (3949) Subscriber Badge on Sunday February 04 2018, @05:41AM (#632817) Journal

          In a more neutral world, we'd be getting articles about Myanmar being under slow-boil invasion for decades from Bangladesh. So in some ways this is a "crisis" created by social media and their attendant codes of conduct due to the requirement of said codes of conduct that users are only tolerated if their posts fall somewhere on a spectrum of vocally/violently supporting Islam or being quiet about the topic. As a result these invaders and killers are spun as the poor victims. There are only a few factors involved:

          • People resist changing their opinions, even when presented with facts
          • People form opinions even without supporting facts, and facts are few and far between on social media
          • Social media codes of conduct prohibit certain topics, regardless. This is one of them.

          And voilà, there you have a blind spot through which you can drive a convoy of trucks or at least swarms of invaders. Bangladesh supporters and Islamists know that and exploit that. Tactically it is a variant of the old method to get there first with the most soldiers. Social media's rules have created a situation where specific facts are excluded from posting thus ensuring that public opinion forms in a specific direction. Again, once an opinion is formed, it will not be dislodged by facts.

          --
          Money is not free speech. Elections should not be auctions.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 04 2018, @06:09PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 04 2018, @06:09PM (#632965)

            "Bangladesh supporters and Islamists know that..."

            You are straight up wacko.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 04 2018, @01:06AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 04 2018, @01:06AM (#632734)

      Troll, Overrated...

      See? It's the stupid cunt SJW moderators downmodding the facts that preclude anybody from having a serious, honest discussion about anything!

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @01:21AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @01:21AM (#632288)

    In glorious future I will dance on mass grave in where will be every Soylentil.

    Create account now to insure own death.

    All you die.

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by MostCynical on Saturday February 03 2018, @01:33AM (1 child)

    by MostCynical (2589) on Saturday February 03 2018, @01:33AM (#632297) Journal

    treaty (Maori)
    Independent Nations (American Indian)
    Mistreat, kill (disease, machetes, guns) possible genocide (almost all: Kurds, Australian Aborigines, South American tribes,, African groups..)

    It seems the secret is to make sure your genocide doesn't stop, until there is no one left, and all you need to do is put a memorial or statue.

    In this case, they left witnesses.

    --
    "I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @10:40AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @10:40AM (#632462)

      If they exist, clearly there was no genocide, not until the proper UN inspectors and party functionaries have passed a new resolution on it.
      If they no longer exist, well, no one would mourn over people who don't exist.

      Either way, you're still screwed.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Saturday February 03 2018, @02:34AM (4 children)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 03 2018, @02:34AM (#632318) Journal

    When does a grave become a "mass grave"?

    The United Nations has defined a criminal mass grave as a burial site containing three or more victims of execution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_grave [wikipedia.org]

    Other definitions offer "multiple bodies", "large numbers of corpses", "multiple numbers of human corpses" - basically there is no real definition. So, the catacombs in Rome would qualify, under most of these definitions. Except, of course, for the UN definition, which requres that there be three or more victims of execution.

    Nothing to see here - just a bit of perverse curiosity. Basically, if someone wants to claim a mass grave, they are justified if there is more than one body in the grave. So, many of our own graveyards in the US qualify, since they may legally bury one coffin on top of another. Which is more morbid? "Honey, I'm taking the kids to the graveyard to see Grandpa's grave." Or, "Honey, we're going to the mass grave, want to come along?"

    • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @02:53AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @02:53AM (#632326)

      Dear darling Runaway,

      Have you picked your plot yet for when you die soon? I want to know where it is so I can shit on your grave. I plan to eat a full Mexican dinner that night.

      Your worst admirer,
      AC

      • (Score: 4, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Saturday February 03 2018, @02:57AM (1 child)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 03 2018, @02:57AM (#632327) Journal

        You take things so seriously, you'll probably stroke out before I do.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @03:09AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @03:09AM (#632330)

          Bite me. Ima live forever, bitch.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @10:53PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @10:53PM (#632704)

      >When does a grave become a "mass grave"

      i swear there must be a your mom joke here somewhere...

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @02:37AM (9 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @02:37AM (#632322)

    Here 400 people were dumped in a mass grave, and 50% of comments condone it because they were Muslim. I guess next time someone shoots a cop in your town, it's ok if they round up everyone and put a bullet in their heads.

    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @03:36AM (5 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @03:36AM (#632335)

      You're like a mouse announcing that not all cats are bad, and that cats should be tolerated or even welcomed. It's cattophobic to flee from cats. You think that mice should try to help save harmless newborn kittens.

      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Saturday February 03 2018, @12:12PM (4 children)

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 03 2018, @12:12PM (#632494) Journal

        You're like a mouse announcing that not all cats are bad, and that cats should be tolerated or even welcomed.

        And you're like a mouse announcing that other innocent mice are actually cats, and in turn using that as an excuse to rationalize doing horrible things to them. This argument is stupid. The sky isn't falling because some people have these weird beliefs. Sorry, I don't buy that Islamic cooties are so dangerous that we need to kill innocent people merely because they have these beliefs.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @05:21PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @05:21PM (#632606)

          As identified perpetrators of islam they're hardly that innocent. You know that even if you choose to ignore it.

          A second factor is that islam or not they don't have a right to invade Myanmar.

          • (Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Saturday February 03 2018, @08:44PM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 03 2018, @08:44PM (#632655) Journal

            As identified perpetrators of islam they're hardly that innocent.

            Bullshit. It's blaming the victim. They aren't the ones committing genocide.

            A second factor is that islam or not they don't have a right to invade Myanmar.

            What invasion? Words mean things.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 04 2018, @12:23AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 04 2018, @12:23AM (#632723)

          Yeah. we should totally ignore the people whos main belief is 'kill all infidels because our holy book says so'.

          I'm sure that won't be a problem ever.

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday February 04 2018, @04:34AM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday February 04 2018, @04:34AM (#632792) Journal

            Yeah. we should totally ignore the people whos main belief is 'kill all infidels because our holy book says so'.

            As has been noted before, Judaism and Christianity has that in their holy books too to a degree. Yet we survive with those religions every day, including living with some pretty extreme cults. There are ways that work to make that happen, such as holding religions and their believers to fair and democratic law. Despite the protests in this current discussion to the contrary, there is nothing magic about Islam. It's just another belief system. We already can absorb their cultures just like many others.

            Here, people are getting murdered for their beliefs, not their actions, and despite the libel to the contrary, the vast majority of them are innocent. That should be wrong in your book.

            What I think is particularly stupid about your position is that if your country adopted this approach of murdering people for their beliefs, there's a really good chance you would be among the first to die - even by your compatriots who would no doubt find your baying for blood politically inconvenient at times.

    • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @06:07AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @06:07AM (#632388)

      You piss off nobel peace prize winner lead Buddhists to the point of genocide. Myanmar is far from a freedom loving country but they had to have done something worse than shoot a few cops.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @11:34AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @11:34AM (#632482)

      Here 400 people were dumped in a mass grave, and 50% of comments condone it because they were Muslim. I guess next time someone shoots a cop in your town, it's ok if they round up everyone and put a bullet in their heads.

      My sympathies are in direct proportion to the propensity of people to follow the morally repugnant ideology of a murderous 7th Century psychopath. Wouldn't care if the cops removed MS13 either.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @05:06PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @05:06PM (#632592)

      is unfortunately all that is needed.

  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by cubancigar11 on Saturday February 03 2018, @05:51AM (10 children)

    by cubancigar11 (330) on Saturday February 03 2018, @05:51AM (#632382) Homepage Journal

    Being familiar with that part of the world, the problem is slightly more complicated than "Mooslems" and "Buddhists".


    So basically all over the world wherever Islam went it's domination was complete. Just like Christianity, Islam helped establish a common identity and create a sense of nationalism among its adherents. Any non-believers (just like in Christianity), were systematically driven out from all the "shared" resources. The whole notion of Nation is basically an umbrella concept to hold other identities such as shared religion, shared language, shared norms and mores etc.

    But India became a problem for Islam because India already had a notion of shared identity through its religion Hinduism. The thing about Hinduism is that its definition is so loose, anyone can start calling himself a Hindu and there is no way anyone can prove it otherwise. So Islam had a big trouble in dominating India. Through sheer perseverance and due to the fact Afghanistan has always been sparsely populated, it was quite successful. As it reached Pakistan, it met huge resistance through hardened fighters of that area called Rajputs. To cut long story short, the Muslims rulers, over generations, finally decided that it is simply easier to stop converting their subjects into Islam if they want to continue to rule. They made peace and alliances with Hindu rulers and basically maintained a lavish lifestyle by only focusing on taxes and maintenance of army. This is the advent of Mughal empire.

    Muslims clerics hated this progress that can best be described as 'church-state separation' for Muslim rulers of India. The more moderate voices of Islam (such as Sufis) got room, though. They went around and converted the poor Hindus, untouchables, and lower castes. It was a social upliftment for these poor people, but they still carry, to this day, the burden of their origin. In short, what happened was that Islam in India unknowingly imported casteism.

    So when British came, they dug all this history and then taught it to their bureaucrats. Now Britain is tiny tiny small country with a population that can be run over with a horde of horses, so they hired loyal-to-the-crown Indians for bureaucratic positions.

    Fast-forward to 1947, when British were leaving, they basically handed over all this shit to their bureaucrats. These bureaucrats fashioned themselves as the original rulers of India. For Muslims, that meant "carrying-on the torch of Islamic conversion" and purging the moderate voices. For that the British carved out Pakistan (and later, Bangladesh). This is what is happening there. For the rest of the India, moderate voice of Hindus won over the hardliners and Nehru fashioned himself as a British crown instead of any pre-British-Raj era Hindu ruler. So you see India has democracy, for certain definition of democracy. That's all the history of ruling class.

    Bangladesh is still having an internal power struggle between hardliner Muslims who think they are superior as they are descendants of original Muslims invaders, and the people who identify as native Muslims. The poor class has become basically a football that gets labeled as per convenience and kicked around everywhere. This has caused massive immigration to India over many decades that was tacitly supported by communist governments in neighboring Indian states, as well as Burma which was going through civil upheaval.

    That upheaval has ended, though. Recently, India has gotten a new Prime Minister [youtube.com] who panders to the hardliner Hindus and is totally against Muslim immigration. Since India has always supported Aung San Suu Kyi [wikipedia.org] over military rule of Burma, together they are creating a stronger "nation" - and that means kicking out the "foreigners". So the poor Muslims who had run away from Bangladesh, and suddenly finding the "foreign" lands even more hostile.

    TL;DR Religion is only very peripherally related to all this ethnic cleansing.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @07:11AM (9 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @07:11AM (#632397)

      Two bugbears driving this problem that neither mainstream media nor social media are willing to touch are overpopulation and climate change.

      Climate change is not a big deal -- yet. However, Bangladesh will be washed away under water withing a few decades and everyone there will swarm into neighboring countries, not just the kicked-around underclass now known as Rohingya Brand (tm) moslems. I'm not sure of a sensible solution. The likely an primitive solution would be to move troops and ammo to the borders of India and set up towers with overlapping fields of fire.

      Overpopulation is already a big deal here and now. Both the original, hard-liner moslem invaders and the kicked-around Rohingya Brand (tm) moslems have enormous numbers of children. It's one of the larger reasons why they are pressured out of Bangladesh and come into India and Myanmar as illegal squatters, armed insurgents, and violent militants. Bangladeshis have been illegally entering Myanmar for decades. Just because Bangladesh is completely unwilling to control its population growth does not give it any right whatsoever to annex Myanmar.

      The news just barely mentions this, but has nevertheless has covered it for decades. Myanmar has every right to the integrity of its own borders. Social media does not want to touch that fact. However, once the insurgents became successfully rebranded in social media as Rohingya Brand (tm) moslems, the history and context are thrown out. You have to stop and think where that is coming from and who controls which narratives are approved on social media. Saudi, Qatar, and the others have been investing heavily in both mainstream media and social media. They have already been getting their money's worth by keeping discourse on-message...

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @08:11AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @08:11AM (#632409)

        Climate change is not a big deal -- yet. However, Bangladesh will be washed away under water withing a few decades...

        No it won't. Real planet Earth is a bit more complicated than the oversimplification they use for scaremongering.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Bengal#Rivers [wikipedia.org]
        "The Padma–Meghna-Jamuna rivers deposit nearly 1000 million tons of sediment every year."
        Which is about 700 cubic kilometers; enough to cover 18000 square km with a meter-thick layer. Or alternately, to raise the whole of Bangladeshi 147,610 sq.km 12 cm per year.
        https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bangladesh-clmate-land-idUSKCN0R90U220150909 [reuters.com]

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @08:54AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @08:54AM (#632425)

          That billion tons is only about 0.3 cubic kilometres, and only 2 mm per year per the entirety of Bangladesh. Still, enough to raise the coastal areas faster than the ocean level rises.

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by cubancigar11 on Saturday February 03 2018, @09:59AM

        by cubancigar11 (330) on Saturday February 03 2018, @09:59AM (#632444) Homepage Journal

        Overpopulation is a well studied problem. Government has got nothing to do with it. Of course, tyranny can achieve anything, but Bangladesh is not China, neither are India or Burma - all three are suffering from population control.

        There is this problem people keep overlooking. Humans in all overpopulated areas of the world aren't suddenly having more than average children, you know! They are having exactly the same of number of children as allowed by biology over billions of years. There is no 'extra' fucking around going on, no matter what meme-lords say. And there is no reason why anyone can ask them to have less fucking than the rich people. Overpopulation happens because of decreasing death rate, which in turn happens due to advent of medicinal science, especially because of anti-biotics. Study says that it takes 3 generations from a decrease of death rate (which increases population) to self-regulated family control (which stabilizes population). That is the minimum.

        Further complication is that family control is directly proportional to economic stability. So now you need to control both the doctors and businessmen to achieve a stable population. Guess what, it took The West 300 years to do that. China did that in decades because simply a very good planning and a will to achieve lofty goals at the cost of human life. India still doesn't have economy under control, but its population has been tapering lately.

        So you are right in a way that Bangladeshi government is at fault, but it is not because of their unwillingness, but rather incompetence.

      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday February 03 2018, @12:37PM (5 children)

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 03 2018, @12:37PM (#632501) Journal

        Just because Bangladesh is completely unwilling to control its population growth does not give it any right whatsoever to annex Myanmar.

        Bullshit [google.com]. Bangladesh's population growth rate has dropped to 1.1% which is actually below the global population growth rate right now. It used to be over 2.8% in the 1970s and 1980s.

        What other excuses are you going to come up with for murdering innocent people?

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @03:10PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @03:10PM (#632544)

          Khallow, you're always the liar. Bangladesh's population is still growing [worldometers.info] and has been since record keeping started. Only the excessive birthrate has reduced. How far are you going to bend reality to advance the cause of illegal squatters, armed insurgents, and violent militants just to cause the deaths of innocent Burmese?

          Burma has every right to the integrity of its own borders and nothing you can write gives Bangladesh any right to annex Burma.

          What was done in the past to Bangladesh and Afghanistan is now happening to Burma. Except now social media is here to back the invaders.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @05:11PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @05:11PM (#632595)

            He just said the growth rate is 1.1%.

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday February 03 2018, @09:11PM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 03 2018, @09:11PM (#632668) Journal

            Khallow, you're always the liar. Bangladesh's population is still growing and has been since record keeping started.

            As the AC replier noted, I didn't say any different. 1.1% is greater than 0%. I can't help but notice what passes for a thought process here. I said something you disagreed with, therefore I must be lying. Well truth is an absolute defense against bullshit accusations of lying, buttercup. Read the posts next time. Don't waste my time with your bullshit.

            Only the excessive birthrate has reduced.

            And that's what's important here. That great reduction in population growth addresses the very complaint of the previous AC poster. Bangladesh is well on track to reach 0% growth, perhaps in half a century, maybe less.

            Burma has every right to the integrity of its own borders and nothing you can write gives Bangladesh any right to annex Burma.

            No, they don't. Murdering thousands of people crosses that line. And Bangladesh isn't trying to annex anyone.

            What was done in the past to Bangladesh and Afghanistan is now happening to Burma. Except now social media is here to back the invaders.

            These murders go the wrong way for your little fairy tale.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @03:20PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03 2018, @03:20PM (#632547)

          Rohingya Brand (tm) moslem squatters, insurgents, and militants have very large families sometimes up to 20 [aljazeera.com]. No matter how you slice it, that is part of the problem.

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday February 03 2018, @09:15PM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 03 2018, @09:15PM (#632671) Journal

            Rohingya Brand (tm) moslem squatters, insurgents, and militants have very large families sometimes up to 20. No matter how you slice it, that is part of the problem.

            Interesting how you can't just call them people. Anyway, let's draw your attention to this quote from your linked story:

            Bangladesh is planning to introduce voluntary sterilisation of Rohingya refugees, nearly a million of whom have been staying in overcrowded camps in Cox's Bazar district near Myanmar border.

            Pintu Kanti Bhattacharjee, who heads the family planning service in the district of Cox's Bazar, said on Saturday that there was little awareness of birth control among the Rohingya.

            "The whole community has been deliberately left behind," Bhattacharjee added, citing a lack of education in Myanmar, where the Rohingya are viewed as illegal inhabitants and denied access to most services.

            Notice that Bangladesh manned up and introduced birth control technology and education to these refugees while Myanmar deliberately made the problem worse.

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