Submitted via IRC for SoyCow9228
Back in December, we reported on the Trump administration's proposed changes to tip-pooling regulations that would allow employers to pocket servers' tips as long as the employees continue to make minimum wage. That's right: Employers could take servers' tips and just dole out the minimum wage. But wait, it gets worse!
Turns out, the Department Of Labor knew how crappy this would make life for restaurant employees. This Bloomberg Law article, citing sources within the agency, reveals that the Department Of Labor knowingly buried its own data that showed restaurant workers would lose billions of dollars in gratuities under the new proposal.
Source: https://thetakeout.com/proposed-tip-pooling-law-is-so-bad-for-workers-the-gove-1822664111
(Score: 2, Troll) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday February 06 2018, @02:26PM (78 children)
I seem to remember some non-tipping shitstain arguing with me that wait staff should be paid entirely by their employers rather than getting the majority of their pay through tips. Care to rethink that now that you have actual researched numbers up in your face instead of just my anecdotal information?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by c0lo on Tuesday February 06 2018, @02:45PM (50 children)
As a person living in Australia, I see mandatory tipping as a shitty cultural tradition. Wait, that's even worse, it's not even cultural, it's socio-economical.
Listen, if it's me to bear the responsibility of paying the waiter, then I should be allowed to bring my own employee to serve me in your restaurant.
If it is you to provide this service, then carry on the whole responsibility and fucking pay your employees.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Disagree) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday February 06 2018, @02:57PM (33 children)
Work as wait staff in the US and then tell me that. Not a single competent waiter or waitress would ever take flat pay over minimal pay plus tips. It would be a huge pay cut.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by c0lo on Tuesday February 06 2018, @03:10PM (6 children)
Now, why the hell should I do that? I mean, this whole world doesn't start nor finish with US.
I didn't like my country of origin, I left for other one that I like much better. If I'd been born in US, probably I'd do the same.
Works with countries just as well as with the services provided by companies. Ubi bene, ibi patria (this is exactly how US got populated, don't try playing the patriot card on me).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2, Redundant) by DannyB on Tuesday February 06 2018, @04:38PM (5 children)
Are you saying the other 96% of the earth's population outside the US might have a different opinion?
But . . . America First! Make America
GrateGreat Again. Etc.To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Freeman on Tuesday February 06 2018, @05:39PM (4 children)
Hmm..., lets see here, most populous countries. Well there's #1 China, #2 India, and who's #3? Oh, yeah, the United States. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population [wikipedia.org]
Then you have these kinds of numbers:
"Almost half the world — over three billion people — live on less than $2.50 a day." http://www.globalissues.org/article/26/poverty-facts-and-stats [globalissues.org]
Note the areas that have serious issues with poverty. Note, China (1bil+ population) still has 20% of their population that are in serious poverty. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_percentage_of_population_living_in_poverty#/media/File:Countries_by_poverty_rate_world_bank_data.png [wikipedia.org] So, only nearly 2/3 of the population of the united states worth of people in China are making about $3 a day. That's just under $1,100 a year.
So, yeah, the United States has a big voice, because it is one of the largest and most prosperous nations on Earth. Half of the world doesn't care so much though, because they're busy trying to survive.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday February 06 2018, @07:04PM (2 children)
Most prosperous, sure.
Biggest. Yes, based on wealth. Based on land area, maybe, I don't know. But several other countries have large land areas. But definitely not biggest in terms of population. Googling US population and World population and using a sophisticated mathematical technique (eg, "division") I can determine the US is about 4.5% of the world's population and everyone else is about 95.5% of the world's population.
So that would seem to indicate that the United States "big voice" is really because of wealth.
Does that perception of wealth also consider debt? That makes me wonder if Trump is very wealthy. But we'll never see any tax returns.
Ah, there is the military. A powerful military. The most powerful. The best military. Trust me. A big, beautiful military. I promise. And we've got the best bombs.
But then, Russia has a respectable military. Maybe even China does too.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Freeman on Tuesday February 06 2018, @07:36PM (1 child)
Conveniently skipped over the second half of my post, you did.
At least 50% of the world doesn't care, because they are in abject poverty. Also, Surprise! The other 50% of the world doesn't agree on everything. So, your 4.5% of the world isn't disagreeing with 95.5% of the world.
World leaders are leaders, because they are doing something right. And / or have the biggest stick. "U.S. President Theodore Roosevelt’s foreign policy: "speak softly, and carry a big stick."" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Stick_ideology [wikipedia.org]
The American culture is much more outspoken than some other cultures and that definitely can cause problems. Just because you met one boisterous tourist, doesn't mean all Americans are like that, though.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 3, Funny) by DannyB on Tuesday February 06 2018, @09:41PM
I read it. Had nothing to say.
Trump's foreign policy: speak Bigly and carry a limp stick, in your tiny hands.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Sulla on Wednesday February 07 2018, @03:28PM
So almost half of the world lives on less than I tip a shitty waiter?
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @03:16PM
Then I guess it's OK to "pool" the tips into the job-creators pocket and pay minimum wage to the staff.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by c0lo on Tuesday February 06 2018, @03:30PM (14 children)
(ah, I almost missed it. And it's juicy, yum)
Letting aside the "they have may sympathy", why should be this my problem as a customer/patron?
It's not like I should act communistic towards the waiters and share my money with them because they need it, only to let the owner of the restaurant to go capitalistic on their ass and pay them the minimum possible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 5, Insightful) by sjames on Tuesday February 06 2018, @04:04PM (4 children)
If I give a tip, it is because I believe the waitstaff served me well. It is between me and them. If the owner pockets it, it is theft as far as I'm concerned.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by c0lo on Tuesday February 06 2018, @04:32PM (1 child)
(yeah, naaah, mate! I do agree with your point, but I deliberately put it this way to emphasize the cognitive dissonance in TMB's argumentation. I know well his battle cry of "Socialism is theft" and yet in this instance he shows quite a decent understanding of waiter's positions, to the point of sacrificing the interest of him as a customer)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @05:23PM
Because wait staff are so ubiquitous that even he understands the situation. I'm waiting for his mental gymnastics routine where he defines everything in such a way that he doesn't need to budge his world view. Ironically such feats of delusion are what he accuses of anyone who went to college.
Damn ivory towers with no bearing on the real world!!! /s
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 07 2018, @04:16AM (1 child)
Which is why I am now in the habit of leaving my tips in cash. If the waitstaff want to share their tip with the owner, that is entirely up to them. If, on the other hand, they would rather not, I'm completely OK with that. Considering that Uncle Sam has put them in this rather awkward position, I'm OK with them not letting the government know about it either. That is between them and their conscience.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 07 2018, @06:23AM
The wait staff are not my employees. Tips are not "earned" in that sense of the word.
Tips are reciprocal gifts for exceeding minimal performance. Might as well tax Christmas gifts too.
A wait staff cheated of their tips will likely not present their employer in a very good light.
I am quite sure the wait staff view confiscation of tips about like a businessman sees employees walking out with silverware and dishes to sell at the swap meet.
I am not part of a wait staff, but it even pisses ME off to see wait staff taxed on TIPS.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by melikamp on Tuesday February 06 2018, @07:16PM (8 children)
It won't be. TMB really got himself into a jam on this one, he does not seem to know fuck-nothing about the restaurant industry, or else talking out of his ass on purpose.
His statement appears to ring true because in the current socio-economic environment in USA, within the service industry specifically, most wait staff and other tip junkies would lose money if they tried to advance their career in a way that removes the tips from the table. For example, a lot of them resist being made a manager, because a restaurant manager is often paid less at the end of the day than an experienced server raking up the tips. A lot of them also get the gambler's excitement from an occasional show-biz tip, and look down on positions without the roulette wheel.
But considered more carefully, TMB's opinion is horseshit. One can google [this puppy is ready for genericide] tipless restaurants and see that there's a wave, as of late, especially on the east coast, to go tipless, and the crest of this wave is at the high end, where most stellar servers actually know what they want. My wife spent most of her life in the industry, working almost every position from waitress to manager to event planner, ending her waiting career at Hungry Mother in Cambridge, where Celtics routinely brought their dates. So both statistically and anecdotally, most people can figure out that even here in USA, many (not all) excellent servers absolutely loath tips. Hungry Mother wasn't tipless, but they pooled everything, which most servers consider a blessing in a successful restaurant, because, SURPRISE! servers don't like to grovel, they don't like to be humiliated, they don't like it when some duchebag dangles a $40 tip before their nose, expecting them to flirt, or when 3 trophy hags drink $600 worth of sparkles over 4 hours and leave ZERO tip, and they POSITIVELY HATE to plan their finances without ever knowing how much money they will make.
But then, TMB is not like most people, he's got his own information sources and ways to arrive to conclusions :)
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @07:29PM (7 children)
I've often thought that TMB shows bad logic but sometimes took into account that we may just not see eye to eye.
His logic is clearly selfish in nature. He remembers his time as a tip earner and could hardly give a fuck about customer service.
The level of service that I get ordering a cup of ramen with no tip in japan is equal to the level of service that I would get at a top restaurant or hotel in the USA. Furthermore I dislike tip chasing staff, when you talk to me like a gameshow host, flirt with me, and laugh hysterically at every fucking thing I say. Yeah only EVER experienced that in tipping countries. Not to mention that flirty hosts foster an environment where customers feel entitled to sexually harass the help.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by c0lo on Tuesday February 06 2018, @08:12PM (5 children)
Say... what? Is this indeed what's expected from the "successful tip receiver" waiting staff in US?
Good God, thanks for not being subjected to such a treatment; irrespective of my order status, I'd leave the place like a rocket after the first 3 minutes. I can't stand pushy waiters interrupting me every 3 minutes to ask if I'm alright or... stuff.
You wait for me to signal you that I need your services and, if you want a tip, I'll have your attention in a very short time; a nod as "I saw you, coming ASAP" will buy you 1-2 minutes of my patience when you are engaged in some other things, but certainly not 1-2 minutes flirting with another customer.
Even the minor matter of having my glass refilled, I like my wine glass stay emptied until I'm feeling like having another one; and then I'm perfectly capable of filling it myself, as much as I think is necessary and when I think is time. If you, the waiter, insist filling it immediately after I emptied it, I'll start to think you just can't wait to see me done and be gone; guess how much I'll be willing to tip you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Interesting) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Tuesday February 06 2018, @08:44PM (2 children)
Not in my experience.
What I expect is a friendly person who smiles at me and makes me feel welcome to eat at that place. Unlike your experience, I do expect wait staff to check in with me anytime my glass is empty - I expect them to be observant and ask me if I want a refill or not. If I say no I expect them to remember that choice. I expect wait staff to check if I need anything about five minutes after food delivery (was there a condiment I needed), and anytime I try to catch their eye - which with good staff does not happen because they've already anticipated my need. I'll put down extra money if they check in after I've placed my order and before food delivery or after post-delivery check and pre-final visit before check.
I don't expect, nor want, conversation, flirtation, or anything other than a respectful attitude, pleasant demeanor, and awareness of my needs as a customer before I have to ask. I ate at Bubba Gump Shrimp Company at Navy Pier and at some point (don't remember when,) the waitress came over and played Forrest Gump trivia with us - it was interesting, but not really expected and did keep me from visiting with those I was dining with. But it was also clearly something the management expected staff to do, I believe.
Conversely, anyone who acted the way you've described without my saying so (doesn't check in unless I ask) would have a diminished tip. I can count the number of times I haven't tipped in the last ten years on one hand - I think it is three out of
This sig for rent.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by melikamp on Tuesday February 06 2018, @11:38PM (1 child)
You people, c0lo & #6553, you are both right! Every patron has slightly different expectations about table servce, and the job of a competent server is to fulfil those expectations without sacrificing the overall quality of service for everyone else. When I took an issue with TMB's little fart-rant, it was the specific suggestion that a competent waiter won't go tipless because of a pay cut. On the contrary, competent waiters are fighting tooth-and-nail, as we type here, over some of the most desired positions in tipless restaurants in New York and elsewhere, and I am sure that at least some of them do take this pay cut with a sigh of relief.
Because you see, people, servers also have expectations (a novel idea for USA, but here we go). A competent high-end server, in particular, is a professional with 10+ years of experience in mind-reading and meeting your every food-related need, all while working on 100 other mini-projects around the floor. Servers like that take pride in their work, and they expect to be paid for their time, period, because they do a fucking great job day in and day out. If you don't like their personal style, or find that the experience is overpriced, you are free to go to a different restaurant, mmmok? So when you do come to their restaurant, they expect you to be polite, and they expect you to be buying food, booze, and table service, the end. They do not expect to be harrased, sexually or otherwise; they do not expect their pay to be held hostage over some random fantasy, or be conditioned by your mood. They are trying to serve you well, regardless of how much or little you expect, or how great or shitty you may feel that day, and they expect to be paid.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 07 2018, @11:18AM
This.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday February 07 2018, @01:40AM
Depends on the class or classlessness of the establishment. A so-called "Gentlmen's club" can be expected to float at this position - right at the top of the septic tank. More generally, no. The average diner expects good wait service, maybe a smile, a little chatting possibly. The flirty waitress doesn't last very long at a nicer restaurant, really. Hooter's would be about as high as the flirts are going to feel comfortable, for any length of time. From there, they might move on to a dive (low class bar) or a strip club.
We have some of everything. You can find the worst of the worst, in any state. And, you can find real professional wait staff in any state. It all depends on what you're looking for.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by canopic jug on Wednesday February 07 2018, @09:29AM
You wait for me to signal you that I need your services and, if you want a tip, I'll have your attention in a very short time; a nod as "I saw you, coming ASAP" will buy you 1-2 minutes of my patience when you are engaged in some other things, but certainly not 1-2 minutes flirting with another customer.
We stopped visiting one pub for a while until the American waitress went away. Unlike the local wait staff she was chatty but said nothing. Unlike the local wait staff she was never around when something was needed. However, when there was clearly no need for anything, she was constantly hovering around asking how service was. Lastly, she did not fill up the beers completely. Also, the local staff were well trained professionals, having gone to vocational school. I gather in the US it is make-it-up-as-you-go-along that is the standard.
Like many things over there, the food service industry in the US is in dire need of a rebuild. Paying proper wages, including benefits, to all staff is part of that. I don't see why as a restaurant patron I should be subsidizing the owner's dodgy practices and general stinginess. The whole thing about tipping for better service is bullshit anyway when most servers make up their mind about you before even coming to the table, creating a self-reinforcing prophesy regarding the good or bad tip they eventually get. Yes, you can game that. I have. I'd rather not, though. I'd rather just come in with my group and get the service we pay for. or just not come back next time.
Money is not free speech. Elections should not be auctions.
(Score: 1) by Sulla on Wednesday February 07 2018, @03:37PM
I have never experienced that, maybe you are just a Chad. Anymore waiters seem so terrible that I will give 10% if someone actually continues to fill up my water glass.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @03:43PM
Pay your god damn employees instead of guilt-tripping your customers, dickhead.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @06:53PM (1 child)
The point is that the system in the US is bad and should be different. The opinions of waiters in the US were developed in the context of working within the broken system. They have developed biases that are based on getting the best they can out of a bad system, rather than implementing a better system.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @09:08PM
I'd rather cost of having servers be included in the price I'm charged along with all taxes. If a waiter isn't good enough that they deserve the money, then the owner should fire them and get somebody that is.
Tips just make it hard for waiters to know how much they're going to make while putting them in a vulnerable position when customers behave badly.
It's hard to understand just how much mental effort it takes deciding how much things are going to cost, unless you've lived somewhere that the price on the menu is what you pay, no more and no less.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @07:18PM (1 child)
Not true. In the USA, the most competent waiters work at the very best restaurants where they are paid a salary and have benefits. There is no tipping at these restaurants, service is included. Restaurants like The French Laundry (Napa), Benu (SF), Alinea (Chicago), and 11 Madison Park (NYC.)
(Score: 2) by black6host on Tuesday February 06 2018, @09:27PM
The trick is to hire good employees and value the service they provide to you, their employer. That would entail good customer service. Pay them well. What we have here though, is not a situation where the employees needs are of paramount concern, and they should be because without them you have nothing, but rather a way for large businesses to make a money grab.
Well, guess what? Somebody is going to pay. We'll end up with lousy servers. Note: this does not include all cases, as pointed out above but for your average Friday's or Longhorn or whatever... Well, wait and see.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @07:19PM
The obvious thing here is that there is some pay level where you would not be taking a pay cut and I've always gotten the best service in countries with no tipping. I tip extremely well. Before I was married I considered 30% personal minimum tip.
But it's just because I don't want to have to gauge your service or see your pitiful eyes or wonder if you have kids to support so I tack on roughly 30% with the absolute minimum of thought and effort possible. The restaurants should consider it a service to eliminate concerns and worries outside of eating my meal.
I should have no responsibility to your employer other than paying the bill (Which should fucking include taxes and your wages just like much of the better world)
I should have no responsibility to you other than to not intentionally ruin your day by being a shitty customer.
Even the act of thinking about tips and taxes removes a great deal of value from my dining experience. I'd prefer not even to even hear about or see the bill until it gets over 50.
How fucking hard is it to let me enjoy some food without thinking. How is it that this is so hard for managers? Really the people running restaurants must be fucking idiots to think that I'll appreciate their level of extra customer service by sending a frantic waitstaff to my table every 5 minutes to ask if I want water or some snacks with as much fake cheer as they can muster but never consider I'd just like to know my staff is getting decent compensation without having to do math on a napkin.
(Score: 2) by insanumingenium on Tuesday February 06 2018, @07:30PM
If that were the case, why do I hear so many bitching about sub-minimum wages? Please make my day and double down on that declaration that every single person who is unhappy with the current system is incompetent.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @08:31PM
*facepalm*
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 07 2018, @03:59AM
This is a US problem. If you employ wait staff you should pay them a decent wage. The tip is meant to be an extra for exceptional service - not their only income,
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 07 2018, @10:41AM
So first you claim people who don't tip are shitstains, and then you claim that wait staff in the USA makes so much more.
If that's the case, why on earth do you give a flying fuck whether or not I tip? The staff is apparently well off anyway.
(Score: 2) by EvilSS on Tuesday February 06 2018, @03:28PM (12 children)
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Immerman on Tuesday February 06 2018, @04:12PM (6 children)
Except for the fact that repeated studies have shown that waiter performance actually has almost no impact on how much they get tipped - that's basically random. About the only thing that *does* correlate with tip amount is the patron's wealth - wealthy patron generally tip substantially lower than most.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday February 06 2018, @04:38PM (4 children)
A wealthy person knows that wealth is not accumulated by spending, on the contrary. Otherwise chances are that person won't stay wealthy for long.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @05:33PM
oh yeah, the wealthy are wealthy b/c they are soooo fucking smart. more like stingy sell-outs most of the time.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @05:36PM (1 child)
???
Really? That is the excuse you want to give rich people?
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday February 06 2018, @05:48PM
Excuse? It's just a hypothesis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by ants_in_pants on Wednesday February 07 2018, @02:50AM
A wealthy person can also afford to spend money more freely.
A wealthy person who spends too much money becomes poor, a poor person who spends too much money becomes dead.
-Love, ants_in_pants
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @06:17PM
Not quite, repeated studies have shown that tip amount is largely based on sex of the wait staff and if they draw hearts on the receipt.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by c0lo on Tuesday February 06 2018, @04:14PM (4 children)
If I'm going into a restaurant, I'm going there to have a good time. I don't see how making me taking care of your business falls on the line of "making the patron feel welcome" - I certainly see it as a hassle.
Oh, but I am tipping the waiting staff now and them, to show my real appreciation for exceptional services in case such services are provided.
Which means I don't see the waiter until the moment I actually need her and s/he's immediately there when I need it. This is why s/he is called "waiter" - from the archaic "to be in readiness for; be reserved for;" - which means s/he's waiting for me and I'm not waiting.
And if and only if that person manages to do the job to my satisfaction, then I expect this level of attention would detract her/him from other things requiring attention, so a compensation is in order. But even then it is a service rendered to me by her/him, thus the payment is between me and her/him and no other's stinking business.
Anything less is just an "as expected level of service" that I expect any decent restaurant should provide - so no tipping.
The only exception to the above (and that happens more often than not) is when the waiting staff and the owner are in the same family - I do enjoy eating in small/family businesses, 5-6 tables tops, honest good food, nothing fancy - happens sometime the cook is delivering some dishes her/himself if the others are busy with something else. Italian trattorias and Greek tavernes manage to hit the spot for me. Occasionally, it happens in country-side pubs as well. In such cases, the tip goes with the bill for the overall experience.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Interesting) by pipedwho on Tuesday February 06 2018, @09:08PM
Completely agree with this.
In Australia, the tip generally goes to more than just the wait staff, so the restaurant experience comes off more like a team effort.
It pisses me off no end when I'm in some small establishment in the USA and it feels like a union demarkation dispute will erupt if I ask the 'wrong' staff member for something because 'my' waiter was temporarily busy tending to someone else at the time. Then there's the over-the-top saccharine sweet friendliness that some put on right after bowling over a bell boy and pushing past patrons at 'not their' table to get to you and your table. Not a team effort from the restaurant, and not an overall great experience in my book. Some places do ok, but my best experiences come from places that specifically state not to tip, but then again, those places are already at the higher end of things. The worst experiences I've had were at high end places where the wait staff 'expect' a big huge tip based on a percentage of the premium prices on the menu even if you tip the minimum 15% or whatever it is they expect.
(Score: 2) by EvilSS on Tuesday February 06 2018, @09:16PM (1 child)
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday February 06 2018, @11:15PM
Like most of this world does.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday February 06 2018, @10:14PM
Yes! The best food (and service) is usually from the small mom and pop restaurants.
This one place I went to had the BEST 'spaghetti/meat' sauce with just the right amount of chili heat! They, I left tips for because I always had over-service, lol
Owner died, (wife retired) and now we got McDoo-Doos. Fecking hell.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 5, Informative) by Thexalon on Tuesday February 06 2018, @06:08PM (2 children)
The issue in the US is that tipped workers have a minimum wage that's less than half of the regular minimum wage. Restaurant owners started pulling the trick of underpaying their servers and demanding their customers make up the difference with tips back in the 1930's, and have never gone back because it would cut into their profit margins to do so and the US government didn't make them change their ways.
I mean, a system where we just paid waitstaff a living wage and adjusted the prices accordingly? While also avoiding making communications majors do long division at the table? Why that would be pure madness!
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday February 06 2018, @06:28PM
I knew about the causes (and understood them**), thanks for the historical details, I wasn't aware that the "custom" is that old (and thus much harder to normalize).
** with the - maybe unnecessary - note that "understanding != acceptance"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 07 2018, @10:55AM
$2.13 vs $7.25
So, less than a third.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @02:52PM (6 children)
WTF are you going on about, something on Brietbart got you riled up this morning?
I tip every time, at least 10% even if the service is shitty, and more if its better. Its not uncommon for me to give a delivery driver a 10 dollar tip on a 25 dollar order. But yes, the employer should pay every part of their damn salary, and quit expecting me to make up the difference.
But seriously asshole, who shit in your cheerios this morning.
(Score: 3, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday February 06 2018, @03:00PM (5 children)
Show me on the doll where the mean words hurt you.
Now explain to me how your money going into the employer's hands, getting a big chunk skimmed off of it, and then going to the staff is better than it going directly from you to the staff.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Whoever on Tuesday February 06 2018, @04:06PM (1 child)
I'm confused. You voted for the administration that is doing this. This is just another example of "reducing regulations". Surely in your world view, the wait staff should just get another job where the management doesn't steal the tips?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @04:12PM
no kidding, i can't tell if he or I or you or all of us are very confused about TMB's stance on this.
he seems to be arguing for what we're saying should have happened and is coming across as aggressively ignorant of the cause of the argument. there is no argument between us. TMB, did you read the article?
you don't have to change your mindset or even view TMB. you just have to aim it at something else, because you aren't wrong except for who you are arguing with. We're trying to agree with you, don't make it that much harder to do it!
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Grishnakh on Tuesday February 06 2018, @04:21PM (1 child)
Now explain to me how your money going into the employer's hands, getting a big chunk skimmed off of it, and then going to the staff is better than it going directly from you to the staff.
I'm not sure on the particulars of this new regulation, but the employer skimming tips isn't OK in any way. I don't know how anyone could defend that unless they were some sociopathic restaurant owner.
However, there is a valid argument for tip-sharing in restaurants: the front-of-house employees get much better pay, generally, than the back-of-house employees. The servers get less than minimum wage, but they can get WAY over it at a good restaurant with tips. However, you're not just paying for good service from the waiter, your experience is greatly affected by the food from the kitchen, and maybe also how clean the table is (which is done by the busser, not the waiter), and even the person who delivers your food (who is someone other than the waiter in many places). So when you get shitty food, many people leave a poor tip, but it's not the waiter's fault, it's the cook's, but the waiter suffers for it. And when the food is fantastic, the waiter gets a big tip, but the cook gets nothing extra, just the minimum wage or slightly more that he normally gets. Tip-pooling is supposed to help with this by sharing the tips with the other workers in the chain (but not the owner!!).
Really, the whole system is broken. We need to just copy Europe (as with many things) and eliminate tipping, and have employees paid proper wages. Then, if a place is great, you go back, leave a good review, etc., and if a place is lousy, you complain, leave a bad review, don't go back, etc.
Also, this tip-pooling isn't new I think: notice that at most (non-Starbucks) coffee shops, and many counter-order restaurants, you don't give a tip to your server or barista, but instead they have a jar on the counter you can put tips into, which presumably are then shared by all the workers.
(Score: 2) by TheRaven on Monday February 12 2018, @11:48AM
sudo mod me up
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @07:34PM
It doesn't matter whose hands to what. You pay your staff good and pass the expense on to me. Don't turn me into your fucking accountant and don't make me stare into your waitresses's soulless eyes as she tries to flirt an extra buck out of me. "Any more refreshments for this handsome gentleman"
(Score: 2) by ElizabethGreene on Tuesday February 06 2018, @03:36PM
I am firmly in the camp that having a $3 per hour minimum wage for wait staff is criminal behavior. Either get rid of it entirely or make it the same as the normal minimum wage.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Tuesday February 06 2018, @04:20PM (1 child)
They're still going to get at least minimum wage either way. It's just a question of where it's coming from.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @11:28PM
The first time a restaurant owner needs to "pay extra" to cover the difference between total tips and minimum wage s/he will fire the employee. So in the end, not so much. It would be in the employee's interest to lie about cash tip amounts in order to NOT have the employer pay them to make up the difference. At least that way they would keep their job.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @04:33PM (4 children)
Surely, you tip the kitchen staff in addition to the wait staff, correct? No? You're a non-tipping shitstain as far as I'm concerned.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Tuesday February 06 2018, @06:57PM (3 children)
The kitchen staff get as least minimum wage. The waitstaff don't. While I certainly would have appreciated tips when I was working in the kitchen, it was less critical for me than the folks in the front of the house.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @11:42PM (2 children)
So if the server is making at least minimum wage, you don't need to tip them? I think you're just making excuses to not tip the people preparing your meal, cheapskate.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday February 07 2018, @02:01AM (1 child)
As has been observed elsewhere in this discussion, you are a product of a broken system. You were brought up in the broken system, so you can't understand how badly the system is broken. In a properly functioning economy, wait staff would be paid on par with any other skilled labor force, and have no need of tips. That staff would provide an excellent dining experience, without expecting an extra dollar or twenty from you.
Of course, your bill for your dinner would be substantially higher than it is now. The "tip" would be included, in the form of health insurance premiums, unemployment insurance, paid holidays, and all the other perks that skilled workers enjoy. Your typical twenty dollar meal might cost thirty dollars. Or, maybe even forty dollars. But, you could enjoy your meal, knowing that you were paying for your waitress' benefits that she has EARNED by way of providing good service.
Tipping is a sexist and racist thing, designed to keep certain classes of people in their places. Dependent, and subservient.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 07 2018, @04:45AM
but that the part of tipping that I like , that relation of dominance
(Score: 2) by edIII on Tuesday February 06 2018, @05:09PM (3 children)
Well, they should all quit and go on strike, and by strike, I mean the kind we haven't seen in 100 years. That's just me though.
Fuck the greedy employers as usual. I never tip off my card, and I always *hand deliver* the tip to my waiter. That way they can discreetly palm it and hide it in their pockets or something.
Seriously, fuck these employers. Did they think I was actually tipping them? That I was grateful for their overly expensive and caustic existence within the meat grinder? Why I would tip these fucking hell bound monsters more than what my meal cost? The deserve nothing but fire.
I tip not because I'm appreciative of good service. I tip because I realize that's the only way my server survives. It's ME that has make up the difference between a living wage and what those shitstains in management wage-steal from them.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 3, Informative) by NotSanguine on Tuesday February 06 2018, @10:36PM (1 child)
I always tip in cash as well *because* I know that servers are paid far less *because* they get tips.
And once you put the tip on a credit/debit card, you need to rely on the restaurant owner doing the honest thing and passing those tips along to the people they are already underpaying. That's a recipe for theft of wages (which is what tips are considered and how they are taxed).
What's more, IIUC servers are assessed taxes that assume they are making (including tips) at least the federal (or local if that's higher) minimum wage. When restaurant owners steal the tips from their employees, they are penalized twice -- once when they don't get their tips and again when they're assessed taxes on those same tips.
Pay people a living wage and this is no longer an issue.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Marand on Tuesday February 06 2018, @11:46PM
If this law sticks, doing that is probably going to become the norm for most. Hell, it's better to do that now, but most people don't. Restaurants make it super easy to put that tip on your card for a reason: if the tips collected don't add up to (non-waitstaff) minimum wage, the employer has to pay that difference, otherwise they only have to pay something like $2.50/hr. Meaning that it's in the server's best interest to take cash tips and withhold them, forcing the employer to pay something closer to a real minimum wage. It's not in the employer's interest to do that, of course, so it makes credit tipping as painless as possible to encourage it over cash, so that the customer ends up paying the employee instead.
Lately I've been doing some bartending for fun (it can be rough when it's busy, but still interesting work) and some extra cash, and frankly it's amazing how fucked up the service industry is with regard to shit like this. Luckily, I'm not having to deal with most of it, because it's a seasonal place that can't keep employees during off-season if it adheres to the idiotic wage rules, so I actually get paid a proper wage and any tips are just extra. Basically, it's how the position should be paid, and it cuts down on a lot (but not all, because some people get greedy) of the petty bullshit other people are complaining about. Do the job well because you're being paid to, and the tips are a nice bonus on top.
Of course, if tipping weren't a custom here, I'd have demanded even more pay for the job, because without it they still wouldn't be paying me enough to tolerate some of the bullshit the service industry deals with regularly. Even with tips, I've kicked people out for being complete cunts because I have enough self-respect that I'm not going to tolerate bullshit from someone regardless of tip potential. Most people are cool, but a small percentage treat employees at any job like shit because the employee can't just walk away, insult them, or hit them without risk of losing their job.
They're shitty to everybody, but it seems like they take it even farther with waitstaff, trying to use tips as a bribe to tolerate them being jackasses, and I think that behaviour will keep tipping around in the US even if the minimum wage shenanigans ever gets fixed. Even if most people are nice, it only takes a couple jerks to ruin someone's day, so tipping gives you an incentive to shrug it off and not let it affect your work. That's more of a problem for waitstaff, though; you don't get nearly as many surly people when you're supplying alcohol and some random chitchat. :)
---
Kind of off-topic from the rest of this comment, but not worth making a new comment for:
Something else I realised with this job is that even without the minimum wage bullshit, tipping works out in the employer's favour because it encourages up-selling in a similar way to commission in sales jobs. You make more tips if you can figure out what a customer wants and sell them on it, which also leads to the employer making more money on sold goods. Maybe instead of tipping directly the industry should move toward a commission style of pay, which is essentially what it's currently emulating.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday February 06 2018, @11:48PM
I hope we can agree that not all restaurateurs are equally contemptible. I've eaten in many places that were pleasing in every sense of the word. I've met wait staff who loved their bosses. Granted, there are at least ten hell holes (without even considering fast food dumps) and incompetent managers for every place like I've described - but there are some really great restaurants, and restaurant managers. You've got to find them, though.
(Score: 4, Informative) by bradley13 on Tuesday February 06 2018, @05:10PM (2 children)
Where I live (Switzerland), tipping is entirely optional, because restaurants actually pay their employees a real wage. So, instead of being left to the vagaries of random customers, they actually earn a living like anyone: being paid by their employer to do their job. Tips here play the role they should: an extra reward for exceptional service.
Why does the US allow an exception to your employment laws specifically for gastronomy? This makes no sense. It allows restaurants to treat their staff like dirt. There's almost no cost to a restaurant for mismanaging staff. And - even under current law, there are plenty of restaurants where the tips don't always make their way to the wait staff (tips put on credit cards, or paid to a central cashier, for example).
Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @05:37PM
it was probably a concession to get min wage laws passed in the first place.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Thexalon on Tuesday February 06 2018, @07:11PM
Read all about it [motherjones.com]
The summary: The exception to the minimum wage was created to allow the Pullman Company to engage in the racist practice of hiring black porters for no wage at all beyond whatever tips the white customers riding the rails deigned to give them. It took strikes and other labor actions to convince Congress to create a minimum wage for tipped workers at all, that was about half of what untipped workers got but still much better than nothing, and the ratio between tipped and untipped workers was kept roughly steady for several decades. Then in the mid-1990's, Herman Cain's lobbying on behalf of the National Restaurant Association convinced Newt Gingrich to decouple those two numbers, and tipped workers haven't seen a raise since.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Tuesday February 06 2018, @08:09PM (1 child)
It is not tipping if it is mandatory.
OTO(mechanical)H it is not tipping if the employer pockets it.
Getting paid by tipping was a mistake IMHO, but now that it is a tradition, keep it unless there are very good reasons not to (meatbags running out of money for instance).
Account abandoned.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 07 2018, @01:15AM
If the only argument for something is "tradition", it means there is nothing beneficial about the practise.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday February 06 2018, @10:17PM
Man, you REALLY know how to get a conversation started, don't you! :)
(Looks down at devastation below).
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday February 06 2018, @11:40PM
Sorry, Buzzard, but I have to agree with c0lo on this. Tipping is a sick cultural thing, that was introduced to the US by a bunch of corrupt bastards in Washington. This isn't something that evolved naturally, it was introduced by legislators who had been bought and paid for.
When the first minimum wage was being considered, farmers, ranchers, and the various food processing stages all rebelled. Their claim was that minimum wage should only apply to skilled workers, and not to people who work with food, no matter what stage of processing that food might be in. (Think about that one - seriously. They OBJECTED to the idea of skillful people handling their food?) They rebelled against the concept of a minimum wage, and they bribed congress critters to make an exception. And, it was WRONG!
When people defend tipping today, they are inadvertantly defending all of those corrupt cocksuckers who defined exemptions from the minimum wage laws. Those exemptions were sexist, racist, and classist - and they haven't changed any over the years.
Tipping was wrong when it was concieved of, it has been implemented in a crappy way, and today, gubbermint is making excuses to steal the money that hard working people within those industries make.
Our culture sucks. That's really all there is to the issue of tipping.
(Score: 2) by Wootery on Wednesday February 07 2018, @09:55AM
You've got the US-centric blinders fitted a little tight there, TMB. Mind that they don't chafe.
Here in the UK, or in the Netherlands, or various other countries in Europe, there's no expectation to tip, because waiters are paid a reasonable wage. That the USA can't sort this out doesn't prove that no society ever could.
Of course, what really matters is the actual take-home pay for the staff, not the ratio of wage to tips, but the squishy liberal in me doesn't like the idea of a waiter going hungry because of a slow day at work.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @02:33PM (6 children)
Even when paying with a card, I try as hard as I can to leave the tip in cash. It's a freakin' gift from me to the wait staff, not something for the owner or government to have any opinions about.
Yeah, the "market" could sort things out if shit gets bad enough. In related news, wild boars have also been spotted on approach to the landing strip, a jet engine firmly tucked under each wing...
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday February 06 2018, @03:04PM
I'd call it payment for services rendered rather than a gift but, yeah, not reporting all of your tips is a time honored way of giving the greedy bastards in DC the finger.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by nitehawk214 on Tuesday February 06 2018, @03:49PM
I tip extra when tipping on the card. I don't often carry much cash, so I just pay out enough to make it worthwhile.
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @03:55PM
That's a relief. At least they're not right-wingers or left-wingers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @06:48PM
oh yeah, and if you're the government and want it taxed, make the owner pay it out as salary, on the books. Anything I'm giving in cash, directly to the waiter, is underground economy, and that's where it rightfully belongs!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @09:34PM (1 child)
I *used* to do this, and have since stopped. I ran into multiple restaurants that assumed I had paid no tip, and added one to my credit card charge after I had signed the receipt. I challenged each with the restaurant involved and my card company. While the charges were reversed, it was a PITA, and not worth my time. I even tried to write "tip on table", and STILL had a restaurant add a tip to my charge after I left.
The entire tipping process is broken. Do away with it and pay wait staff a real wage and charge customers prices needed to keep the business running.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 07 2018, @01:20AM
How were they able to add an additional charge? Did you give them your card's PIN or something?
...
(Score: 2, Funny) by realDonaldTrump on Tuesday February 06 2018, @02:35PM (5 children)
Our big companies and corporations are SHOWERING their workers with bonuses. This is a phenomenon that nobody even thought of, and now it is the rage. The absolute RAGE. That’s because of what we did. Who wants just the tips, when all that gold is coming down?
(Score: 5, Touché) by c0lo on Tuesday February 06 2018, @02:47PM (2 children)
Showering and gold. Gold and shower.
Mmm... I think I see what you did here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by OrugTor on Tuesday February 06 2018, @03:54PM (1 child)
I think he's confusing gold shower with cold shower. Which is what metaphorically lower-paid workers get as a bonus.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @04:01PM
No. He is making reference to the Russian hookers golden showers Trump has enjoyed.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday February 06 2018, @11:55PM (1 child)
Oh, FFS - you've been modded "funny", but I don't think you meant that post as a joke. Walmart is giving everyone a raise to $11.00? That's "showering" people with money? Scroll back up to the comment alluding to golden showers. $11.00 is chump change. Not even chump change. Some chump on the street following around after some hooker or drug pusher makes a lot more than that. A couple, each of whom makes $11.00/hr and works two or three jobs each, trying to get in a 40 hour work week, are just keeping their heads slightly above the poverty level. Add a kid or two - fuck.
(Score: 2, Funny) by ewk on Wednesday February 07 2018, @10:05AM
" Add a kid or two - fuck."
Generally it's the other way around... :-)
I don't always react, but when I do, I do it on SoylentNews
(Score: 5, Informative) by fadrian on Tuesday February 06 2018, @03:13PM (1 child)
Anyone who thinks that this administration has any consideration for workers is about as sane as our resident stable genius.
That is all.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday February 06 2018, @10:26PM
And in the end, every conversation has either Hitler or Gaaark in it!
NIIIICE Gaaarkwin!!!! :)
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Virindi on Tuesday February 06 2018, @03:30PM (17 children)
Why should it be illegal for an employer to have any tip policy they please?
Would implementing a "shared pool" system not cause good waitstaff to head to employers who do not have such a system, leaving the greedy owner with the worst employees?
If ensuring fair compensation only occurs because the government mandates it, then employees are already screwed. In that case, the root imbalance that gives the employers too much bargaining power is what should be addressed, rather than some piecemeal case by case regulation.
A better piecemeal idea (if you must) towards this might be mandatory notification. When you go into a restaurant, they would have to tell you that tips do not go to your waiter....since leading you to believe the waiter is getting the tip and then taking it is essentially fraudulent.
Honestly, this seems like it should be the case anyway. The 'free market' works best when people have information, so if you want the 'market' to help solve your problems you need to prevent people from gaming it by intentionally keeping their behavior hidden.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by nitehawk214 on Tuesday February 06 2018, @03:56PM (4 children)
Then the employer just fires anyone that taddles on them for stealing tips. Your invisible hand of the market only jacks off the owners while fisting the workers. (how's that for a free market analogy?)
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 1) by redneckmother on Tuesday February 06 2018, @04:27PM (2 children)
I loved the analogy. May I quote you?
Mas cerveza por favor.
(Score: 1) by nitehawk214 on Tuesday February 06 2018, @05:22PM (1 child)
Sure, but I can't possibly be the first person to think of it.
There are a lot of dirty minds on the internet.
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 1, Redundant) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday February 06 2018, @11:59PM
Please, say it isn't so! You made that up, didn't you? :^)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @05:42PM
nobody said anything about taddling to some "authority". he said FREE! that means you leave like a free person would do, not whine to some Grand Overseer slug.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by sjames on Tuesday February 06 2018, @04:10PM (8 children)
Because a tip is something I choose to give to the waiter/waitress personally. I didn't give it to the restaurant, it's owner, or anyone else there. It is MY money to give or not to anyone I choose. If the person I want to tip isn't allowed to keep it, it will stay in my pocket or I'll give it to them under the table.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @06:19PM (1 child)
Correction: a tip is something you're socially pressured into giving to the waiter/waitress because people in your country are OK with the employer not paying the staff a living wage.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @11:02PM
Thank you for your opinion, Mr. Pink [youtube.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @07:32PM (5 children)
but at many places its not just the waitress that dips into that money--the bus boy, the cook, other waitstaff... all get a part of that.
there are places that the tip goes right to the waitperson, but many others divide that up among the people responsible to make the food get it to the table and ensure your needs are met when the wait person is waiting on other people, so you don't have to wait for the waiter--like for the person that often refills the water. there is no water waiter!
You are allowed to do as you want with the money, sure, but just remember it doesnt always get split up the way you might expect unless you specifically hand it to the wait person and say this is for them.
(Score: 2) by NewNic on Tuesday February 06 2018, @08:32PM (3 children)
I have never really understood this mentality.
I interact with the wait staff at a restaurant, but really, it's the kitchen staff that ensure my meal is tasty and not full of salmonella or other bacteria. It's the kitchen staff that are most important for my enjoyment of a meal.
Why tip the wait staff when the kitchen staff cooked a stellar meal?
lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @10:00PM
The waitstaff are paid 3 dollars an hour and the kitchen staff 9? That's a damn good reason right there, jackhole.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 07 2018, @04:19AM (1 child)
Because all the others in the US get the 'full' minimum wage - wait staff don't.
(Score: 2) by NewNic on Thursday February 08 2018, @01:35AM
Where I live the wait staff get full minimum wage.
lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday February 07 2018, @12:06AM
Uhhhh - not in my experience. I grew up in Pennsylvania. Labor law, at that time, defined "cook" duties as being separate and distinct from any other duties in a restaurant. And, cooks made better than minimum wage, even in a fast food dump. In real restaurants, cooks were actually paid pretty well. Not great, but pretty well. Cooks never got any part of any tips - period. Bus staff? Mmmmm - wait staff often times considered it a promotion to get a bus job. Bus staff wasn't paid as well as a cook, naturally enough, but they were paid better than waiters/witresses. Restaurants without separate bus staff are bussed by the wait staff, of course.
I think it fair to say that if you intended a tip to go to the wait staff, you could safely leave that money on the table, and the waiter would get it. At least, up until the time that the IRS determined that the manager/owner should collect all the tips and share/tax them "equally".
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Tuesday February 06 2018, @04:18PM
Why should I not be able to give a gift without someone else stealing it?
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @04:58PM (1 child)
"Why should it be illegal for an employer to have any tip policy they please?"
Fine, so long as it is absolutely clear what that policy is and waiters are both allowed and required to explain the tipping policy when you sit down. Because I'm sure if people are told "Good evening sir, typically a tip of 20% is expected. Additionally the owner pockets all the tips and just pays us minimum wage." you'll see far fewer actual tips being left. Policies like that would normally never be advertised, and I wouldn't be surprised if owners would fire any waiter/waitress revealing it to customers.
I expect tips I do leave to be retained by the waiter or pooled among the staff. If the owner is stealing it (Let's not mince words. That's exactly what's happening.) then you had better believe I won't be bothering to leave a tip, and the owner would be lucky if I even step foot in the restaurant if any pressure whatsoever is made to give a tip in those situations.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @05:45PM
and that's called theft by fraud and is actually in the legitimate purview of government to prosecute.