Submitted via IRC for TheMightyBuzzard
Humans easily outperform machines when it comes to tightening and loosening screw fasteners. The future of manufacturing and recycling may depend on changing that.
In the pantheon of technologies that make our modern society possible, one of the most underappreciated and neglected is the threaded fastener, more commonly known as the screw. This technology emerged at the dawn of the industrial era, when it became possible to make metal gadgets like these on a large scale.
Today, these devices literally hold the world together. Our 21st-century lifestyles would not be possible without them, and they are likely to play an indispensable role for the foreseeable future.
Yet in a world where manufacturing techniques are increasingly automated, there is a problem. The process of screwing and unscrewing is still one in which humans outperform machines. Robotic devices have difficulty locating screws and their sockets and then manipulating screws and screwdrivers effectively.
[...] These researchers are part of a team building robots that can take apart electronic devices, like smartphones, for recycling. The project is called RecyBot, and its goal is to create a high-speed intelligent robotic system for dismantling electronics.
That's a considerable challenge, and one of the biggest headaches is unscrewing. So the team at least have this under their belt. But the same technology could be applied in a wide range of smart factories that have to assemble and disassemble components.
Source: https://www.hardocp.com/news/2018/02/13/humans_screw_much_better_than_killer_robots/
Source: Haptics of Screwing and Unscrewing for its Application in Smart Factories for Disassembly
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Friday February 16 2018, @02:16AM (15 children)
People are always over torquing, or under torquing screws. From what I see on the factory floor, the robot's only problem is picking up the screws and bolts. If they ever find the screws and bolts, they can put them where they belong, and (almost) always torque them correctly.
Even experienced mechanics and maintenance men tend to over torque fasteners. Nothing beats a good torque wrench.
Of course, the specs aren't always "right" either. A grade 8 3/8"-16 bolt is to be torqued to 35 ft-lb (lubed), according to this chart: http://www.uzengprod.com/online%20catalog/PDFs/Technical%20Data.pdf [uzengprod.com] (other charts will give you slightly differing torque values, up to about 48 ft-lb) Yet, we have books that state the torque value should be as high as 48 ft-lb. These bolts will break off as low as 45 ft-lb, although some will withstand 50 to 52 ft-lb. I can imagine a robot being set to some torque value, which is to high, and it will industriously break off thousands of screws and bolts before someone comes along to stop it.
Obviously, some common sense is needed - but then, people commonly confuse the two columns for "dry" torque, and "lubed" torque. Note that putting anti-seize on a bolt means that the bolt is lubed.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday February 16 2018, @02:22AM (1 child)
They don't need to be that good for the story to ring true, they only need to be better than the current robots.
Mind you, the story is also in the context of "robots dealing with the recycling of electronic devices in general" rather than "recycling of a certain brand/model of electronic devices"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 16 2018, @02:26AM
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(Score: 3, Informative) by MostCynical on Friday February 16 2018, @03:14AM (10 children)
Some people have mechanical empathy, and can feel when a screw is getting tight.
Some manage to learn this skill.
Some just keep twisting, until the screw just spins, forever.
With appropriate levels of youth, exuberance, supervision (none), it is possible to use a rattle gun/pneumatic wrench to effectively weld a wheel nut to a hub.
Once.
A robot will do it all day, and only be caught if the QA process includes tesing the *undo* torque, not just that the titening torque is at least the minimum.
I suspect the robots will do better when the system designers have to QA all the apprentices' work, first.
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 3, Informative) by qzm on Friday February 16 2018, @03:24AM (6 children)
That is probably why HUMANS have been using set-torque screwdrivers for manufacturing for decades.
This story is almost pure BS - or more likely based on someone who didnt actually bother to find out anything about the area they claimed to have expertise in.
People suck at torque estimation, and therefore torque limiting tools have existed for a LONG time.
http://www.flexibleassembly.com/Torque-Screwdriver-Guide [flexibleassembly.com]
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Friday February 16 2018, @03:33AM (5 children)
Oh please. Yes, these things have been around for ages, and actually have been used in some critical industries, but not all.
Just go to some random tire shop and see if they use any torque-limiting tools. Assuming you're in the US, there's a very good chance they don't. Massively overtorqued lug nuts are all too common a problem here.
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Friday February 16 2018, @04:46AM (3 children)
Rattle gun, find torque wrench, find correct socket, find torque setting for vehcle/wheel combination, set torque wrench, use torque wrench, put tools away again.
Or
Rattle gun, done.
No competition.
And you only find out *how* tight when you get a flat in the middle of nowhere.
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Friday February 16 2018, @05:03AM (2 children)
Or when another mechanic tries to take the wheel off and finds the nuts cross-threaded on the stud and has to replace the stud ($$), or worse when it causes your alloy rim to fracture.
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Friday February 16 2018, @05:12AM (1 child)
I've seen a mechanic take a torch to a rim, because the thread and the stud were both stripped.
One mechanic is another mechanic's worst nightmare (or dream, if you factor in per-hour billing)
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Friday February 16 2018, @04:13PM
(or dream, if you factor in per-hour billing)
If I were a mechanic, I'd worry about the customer blaming *me* for the previous mechanic's shoddy work, and complaining about the high cost of repair because of all the extra time and parts needed. If a shop advertises a "$150 brake service" special, and then they find out they have to replace the lug studs or even a whole hub because of some shitty tire shop worker, do they get to charge much more, and what do they do if the customer complains? (Honestly, I don't really know because I do my own brake work and most other jobs.)
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Friday February 16 2018, @06:23AM
They should be using locks, but it's probably just the robots worried about theft [gotfuturama.com].
(Score: 3, Interesting) by mechanicjay on Friday February 16 2018, @06:56PM (1 child)
Original Link for ref: https://jalopnik.com/comment-of-the-day-thats-what-happens-when-you-call-an-1796035105 [jalopnik.com]
My VMS box beat up your Windows box.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by bob_super on Friday February 16 2018, @07:31PM
"Add flour until consistency is right, then season to taste"
Some of the best recipes explicitly rely on experience of the operator.
(Score: 3, Funny) by mechanicjay on Friday February 16 2018, @07:01PM
Indeed. Torque wrenches are key where safety and reliability are in place. Not so much where it doesn't matter. Interior trim pieces, center-console, etc
I was astounded to learn that some people don't have this "mechanical empathy" as you put it. I had a helper once snap like 50% of the heads off a bunch of screws on something they were helping me put together. I asked them to please stop helping.
Them: "Well you didn't say how much to tighten them!"
Me: "I feel like, not tight enough to break is a given."
My VMS box beat up your Windows box.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by LoRdTAW on Friday February 16 2018, @03:47AM (1 child)
Then you have an incredibly bad engineering team. Any good engineer will spec the proper bolt size and grade for the job and use the SAE chart. Granted, I will agree with you about the various conflicting chart's scattered about the web. But, if I were working for a company that had to comply with standards and cover liabilities then I would purchase copies of those standards directly from SAE or whatever governing body applies to your industry. Imagine if something went wrong and the poor schmuck of an engineer has to tell management that he found the specs on a random website after a quick google search. I'd imagine you'd be fired on the spot.
And as for the robots breaking screws, again follow the spec and design everything properly and you won't have those kinds of problems. Plus, management would ensure there is some sort of automated inspection system on the assembly line that would detect and halt the machinery.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Friday February 16 2018, @07:36PM
You forgot the critical and mandatory phase of setting up any automated process: Build one. Stop. Inspect result. Adjust as needed.
The idea that someone would operate using a value that breaks thousands of screws would be laughable, if I didn't believe in the fundamental incompetence of some.
In my book, it's a "get fired" offense.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 16 2018, @03:21AM (2 children)
More automation, less paid workers... so who will use the phones, or whatever crap, robots make (and later will recycle)?
Exactly, they better start working in robots that use mobiles & cars, wear clothes and so on, or they will run out of users fast. No idea how the robots will pay for the things, but at least the things will get users.
BTW, Ford and ??? already use robots to attach wheels in the factory, without problems with nuts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imnAYcF05Yo [youtube.com] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXHMh-Qd1io [youtube.com] Same supplier (IBG), different robots to fit different assembly lines. I'm sure they will figure how to unscrew, or drill thru, screws in things that are being recycled.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Grishnakh on Friday February 16 2018, @03:31AM (1 child)
More automation, less paid workers... so who will use the phones, or whatever crap, robots make (and later will recycle)?
Simple: all the humans who now don't have to toil away at mindless, repetitive tasks that robots can do better. To make the economics work, you'll have to adopt Universal Basic Income, which can be paid for with higher taxes on the people who make more money (like all the people who own stock in the robotic factories). It doesn't have to be that much higher; once you eliminate most forms of welfare and phase out Social Security (not needed with guaranteed basic income), and all the government workers and administration needed for those programs, the extra cost of UBI won't be that high. Reducing military spending a bit and legalizing marijuana and decriminalizing other drugs (send people to rehab instead of prison if they're a problem) will also free up more money in the budget.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 16 2018, @03:43AM
UBI is simple if you only look at automation and plain people. When you take into account those other people that own the robots... things are far from simple. Otherwise those owners would be already pushing for UBI instead of buying houses in NZ.
Basically, I agree with you. But I doubt any of us are robot owners.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Grishnakh on Friday February 16 2018, @03:22AM
A big part of the problem with screws is the shitty heads on them, namely the old slotted head, and also the Phillips head. The slotted one gets reamed out pretty easily, and the screwdriver slips out very easily. Phillips ones are even worse for getting cammed out, though better for not slipping out. Honestly, both these stupid old standards should be banned for new products. We have far, FAR better things available now: Torx and Robinson (square) for starters, and even Allen head (internal hex) is a huge improvement.
If you use a good screw head in your product, robotic assembly shouldn't be a big problem, and should be better than humans since the robot can use a built-in torque gauge to get it torqued exactly right every time, unlike the human who, if he's American, will just refuse to use a torque wrench at all because he thinks he knows better. (Workers in tire shops are especially notorious for this.)
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Arik on Friday February 16 2018, @03:31AM (6 children)
Really, really awkward sentence, reads like written by a committee, it speaks out of both sides of the mouth.
As the second clause implies, the first clause is simply incorrect. Screws have been known and used since the bronze age, ~4-5 millenia. The industrial age did not bring screws, it simply made them much less expensive, which resulted in wider use.
Formerly, screws were mostly found in expensive, high status items. Sometimes they were even used where they didn't make a lot of practical sense, precisely because their use conveyed the message that the owner of the object was quite well off, to be able to use them. They are quite time-consuming to make by hand.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 4, Funny) by chromas on Friday February 16 2018, @04:33AM
It was probably written by a screw robot. Not to be confused with a screwbot.
(Score: 2) by Dr Spin on Friday February 16 2018, @10:15AM (3 children)
This technology emerged at the dawn of the industrial era, when it became possible to make metal gadgets like these on a large scale.
History: Null points.
Screws made of metal and wood have been known since biblical times, and probably before that.
However, as a spin off while working on Charles Babbages's computing engines, Joseph Whitworth came up with the idea of a standard thread
(known as the "Whitworth thread" for obvious reasons), and, combined with Babbage's concept of tolerances, and the inventions of the
Vernier calliper, and Micrometer screw gauge (both also spin-offs from Babbages's work) made it possible for people to buy screws and
know they would fit the nut they were intended for (or vice versa). Obviously, the screw cutting lathe as we know it was also coming into
widespread use at this time.
This was roughly the 1860's - NOT the "dawn of the industrial age" - roughly the 1760's.
Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Friday February 16 2018, @03:06PM (2 children)
Pedantry alert:
If it meshes with a nut, then it's a bolt, not a screw. Screws either cut their own threads, or less commonly mesh with threads cut into one of the components themselves.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Grishnakh on Friday February 16 2018, @04:22PM
Sorry, no. Look up "machine screw [wikipedia.org]": these also work with nuts (but also with tapped holes). And bolts are frequently used with tapped holes: just look at any modern engine. These are frequently called "lug bolts" or "head bolts". The Wikipedia article notes that there's a disagreement between common usage and the "Machinery's Handbook". This is further complicated by the fact that the US government has its own definitions, because, stupidly, there are differing tariffs for screws and bolts.
The best course of action is to ignore the authoritative standards (because they generally have stupid motives) and go with common usage. English language is defined by common usage, not by elitists as in French. (In English, the academic elitists merely document common usage; see the Oxford English Dictionary, and attempt to encourage some standardization (with style guides), though not always successfully.)
(Score: 2) by deimtee on Saturday February 17 2018, @12:55AM
That's one definition. There is the alternative : if it is driven by a screwdriver, it is a screw. If it is driven by a spanner it is a bolt.
Here's another, slightly more technical: if the male and female threads have the same profile it is a bolt, if they are unequal it is a screw.
There's lots of room for argument. :)
If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by donkeyhotay on Friday February 16 2018, @03:39PM
Good observation. It would have made more sense if it had said, "This technology ballooned at the dawn of the industrial era..."
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 16 2018, @04:33AM
I've had this in my personal queue for several days but didn't get it submitted.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Funny) by donkeyhotay on Friday February 16 2018, @03:35PM (1 child)
That's all very interesting. Something I just always took for granted and seemed natural actually has a lot of subtle algorithms behind it. I worked with a guy in the Navy who never seemed to get the hang of it. We marveled how this guy could manage to strip the heads off screws (what the article terms "cam outs"), whether screwing or unscrewing. He also had a frequent problem with cross-threading. Seemed to have no feel for it. I noticed that the article never addressed this. It seems like you often have to slowly feel for possible cross threading before you speed up the process and complete the screwing job. Then there's telling the difference between a cross-thread and just a temporary "blockage", that is to say, some screws might be hard to get in initially, but get easier if you keep turning.
There is certainly a lot that goes into screwing, if you think about it. I suppose that is true of all types of screwing ;-)
(Score: 3, Funny) by mechanicjay on Friday February 16 2018, @07:15PM
Sometimes, when the situation is desperate the phrase, "Cross threads are better than no threads!" has been uttered.
My VMS box beat up your Windows box.