Arthur T Knackerbracket has found the following story:
The ancient population of Britain was almost completely replaced by newcomers about 4,500 years ago, a study shows.
The findings mean modern Britons trace just a small fraction of their ancestry to the people who built Stonehenge.
The astonishing result comes from analysis of DNA extracted from 400 ancient remains across Europe.
The mammoth study, published in Nature, suggests the newcomers, known as Beaker people, replaced 90% of the British gene pool in a few hundred years.
Lead author Prof David Reich, from Harvard Medical School in Cambridge, US, said: "The magnitude and suddenness of the population replacement is highly unexpected."
The reasons remain unclear, but climate change, disease and ecological disaster could all have played a role.
People in Britain lived by hunting and gathering until agriculture was introduced from continental Europe about 6,000 years ago. These Neolithic farmers, who traced their origins to Anatolia (modern Turkey) built giant stone (or "megalithic") structures such as Stonehenge in Wiltshire, huge Earth mounds and sophisticated settlements such as Skara Brae in the Orkneys.
But towards the end of the Neolithic, about 4,450 years ago, a new way of life spread to Britain from Europe. People began burying their dead with stylised bell-shaped pots, copper daggers, arrowheads, stone wrist guards and distinctive perforated buttons.
Co-author Dr Carles Lalueza-Fox, from the Institute of Evolutionary Biology (IBE) in Barcelona, Spain, said the Beaker traditions probably started "as a kind of fashion" in Iberia after 5,000 years ago.
From here, the culture spread very fast by word of mouth to Central Europe. After it was adopted by people in Central Europe, it exploded in every direction - but through the movement of people.
Prof Reich told BBC News: "Archaeologists ever since the Second World War have been very sceptical about proposals of large-scale movements of people in prehistory. But what the genetics are showing - with the clearest example now in Britain at Beaker times - is that these large-scale migrations occurred, even after the spread of agriculture."
[...] The Nature study examines the Beaker phenomenon across Europe using DNA from hundreds more samples, including remains from Holland, Spain, the Czech Republic, Italy and France.
Another intriguing possibility links the Beaker people with the spread of Celtic languages. Although many linguistics experts believe Celtic spread thousands of years later, Dr Lalueza-Fox said: "In my view, the massive population turnover must be accompanied by a language replacement."
(Score: 2, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 23 2018, @11:39PM (34 children)
The Angles and Saxons replaced the Bretons. The Picts replaced whoever was in Scotland before them, and the Scots replaced the Picts. The Irish legends say they came from elsewhere and replaced whoever was there before. There is an old legend that the Bretons claimed to be descended from exiled Trojans and they replaced whoever was there. And the modern British are being replaced by Muslims.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @12:27AM (3 children)
One recent Pew report says that the Muslim population of (Western) Europe could triple by 2050—just when all those baby Muhammads are coming of age, and when the imams will “call” on them. In Germany alone, nearly 20 percent of the population could be Muslim by 2050; considering that the average Muslim man is more zealous over his way of and purpose in (Islamic) life than the average German male, 20 percent is not too little for an Islamic takeover of—or at least mass havoc in—Germany. Yet the report also finds that even “if all migration into Europe were to immediately and permanently stop” and due to significantly higher Muslim birthrates, Europe’s Muslim population will still grow significantly, to about 36 million, almost double the current population.
Not that many Western Europeans seem to care; some are even glad to see their own kind die off and be replaced by Muslims—such as Dr. Stefanie von Berg, who exulted before the German parliament: “Mrs. President, ladies and gentlemen. Our society will change. Our city will change radically. I hold that in 20, 30 years there will no longer be a [German] majority in our city. …. And I want to make it very clear, especially towards those right wingers: This is a good thing!” Meanwhile, “the head of Germany’s domestic intelligence agency is lobbying for a repeal of laws restricting security surveillance of minors under the age of 14, arguing that the country is facing grave risks from what the German media dubs ‘kindergarten jihadists.’”
https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/269364/europes-future-nightmare-baby-muhammad-jihad-raymond-ibrahim [frontpagemag.com]
(Score: 4, Informative) by beckett on Saturday February 24 2018, @12:33AM (1 child)
if you hadn’t buried the lede and just cited David Horowitz’s fromtpage mag in the first sentence you could have saved a lot of efforts on your part. tryhard trolls are cute tho
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @02:18AM
That was one of the more famous things that Kaddafi said during his vile little life.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/gaddafi-quotes-the-dead-libya-dictator-275336 [mirror.co.uk]
He will be remembered for it long after other things he said or did will have been forgotten.
You may not like to hear certain facts, but that does not change whether they are facts.
(Score: 2) by SanityCheck on Saturday February 24 2018, @07:17AM
Jesus Christ, imagine the traffic jam when all those trucks of peace take tot he road at the same time! They will bring European traffic to a stand-still! We must stop it!
(Score: 4, Informative) by Arik on Saturday February 24 2018, @12:43AM (26 children)
Nope. Simply not true. Their language, customs, and law replaced that of the Bretons in a large part of the island, yes, but you're implying biologically and nope, that's simply false. There's plenty of pre-Roman Prydish DNA in the modern "English." Which clearly speaks to a fusion, not a replacement.
And even with this earliest population of hunter-gatherers, 'replaced' is a clickbait headline, not the actual conclusion of the scholarship stated in anything like a neutral manner.
In Britain as in Europe generally, the neolithic farmer population seems to have contributed more to modern populations than the hunter-gatherers that they slowly 'replaced' over many centuries, but wait a sec. More, but again, it's a mix. Agricultural societies produce higher population densities than hunter gatherers pretty nearly across the board, so this is not at all surprising, and again 'replaced' turns out to be an inappropriate, even deceptive, choice of words. There was a mixture, a fusion, no replacement.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @12:48AM (11 children)
Although Europe is not part of the Muslim world, many European authorities nevertheless seem to feel obliged to submit to Islam in more or less subtle ways. This voluntary submission appears to be unprecedented: Dhimmi, historically speaking, is the Arabic term for the conquered non-Muslim, who agrees to live as a second-rate, "tolerated" citizen, under Islamic rule, submitting to a separate, demeaning set of laws and the demands of his Islamic masters.
In Europe, submitting to the demands of Islam, in the name of "diversity" and "human rights", has also been happening voluntarily. This submission to Islam is, of course, highly ironic, as the Western concepts of "diversity" and "human rights" do not exist within the foundational texts of Islam. On the contrary, these texts denounce in the strongest – and supremacist - terms those who refuse to submit to the Islamic concept of divinity, Allah, as infidels who must either convert, pay the jizya ["protection"] tax or die.
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/11932/europe-dhimmis [gatestoneinstitute.org]
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Arik on Saturday February 24 2018, @01:21AM (10 children)
"This submission to Islam is, of course, highly ironic, as the Western concepts of "diversity" and "human rights" do not exist within the foundational texts of Islam."
Whether in the foundational text of Islam, Christianity, or Judaism, you have to work a bit to find them. Yet in all three religions, there are coherent intellectual traditions that manage it - and also anti-intellectual movements of much more recent origins that do not.
This post reminds me of a friend who is a true believer in a Christian tradition and sometimes says similar things. I won't call it hypocrisy, because I do not believe his character would allow it, but it is a very particular form of blindness. You can't possibly take a seemingly barbaric bible verse out of context and get away with it around him, he knows his tradition, he knows his text. Show him a fundamentalist christian using the bible to justify something barbaric and he not only can, he MUST, make it clear that this is just wrong, an illiterate misreading.
Now show him a takfiri making a similar argument from the Quran and he's instantly and completely certain this guy is a 'real muslim' and this is what 'real islam' teaches. I gave him a course of Sufi lectures once but he was never able to sit through more than a few seconds of it. It just couldn't possibly be 'real islam."
Not evil enough I guess.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @01:51AM (1 child)
Of course, Religions are the same! Have fun in your Muslim dominant society. I’m sure it will be just as peaceful as you predict. If it turns out to not to be the case, tell me, will you bow towards Mecca or will you show these unenlightened individuals the same videos?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Arik on Saturday February 24 2018, @02:35AM
Not at all. But there are deep currents that are shared.
The most despicable of each religion have world views that are nearly mirror images of each other.
And the most enlightened, the same.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @02:41AM (7 children)
Are you suddenly an expert on islam [thereligionofpeace.com]? Try checking up on that book of theirs. It requires the killing of non-moslems [thereligionofpeace.com]. all of them [thereligionofpeace.com]. So either they follow the koran and are moslem or they don't follow the koran and cannot be called moslem.
Wishing otherwise won't change history or the present or even the future. Magial thinking is an accusation that can be leveled against more groups than just those venerating a schizoprenic, pedofilic, brigand.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Arik on Saturday February 24 2018, @02:48AM (6 children)
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @03:09PM
Perhaps you should study more. Islam is founded on deception. Their main prophet was a pedophile. To this day they rape and murder everyone including their own. Their book can be downloaded. Read it.
I never understood why people of one religion felt the need to kill people of another religion. I understood people hating each other, disagreeing, being mean or stupid or paycho. Full on let's kill them all? No.
Now I do.
I have read the koran.
I understand why they want to kill or convert the world.
I understand why others would feel the need to kill them.
Read the first chapter, if nothing else.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Saturday February 24 2018, @07:00PM (4 children)
It's not all that modern. The violent wing of the Muslim faith has been rather dominant ever since Tamerlane wiped out the civilized branch. This isn't to say that the peaceful Muslims aren't the majority, they just haven't been dominant. This is also, of course, true of Christianity. They've been pretty dominated by the violent wing recently, and without the excuse of being violently suppressed.
Note, that just as most Muslims are peaceful, so are most Christians, and most atheists. The problem is that violent people wrap themselves in the mantle of an ideology and claim it for themselves. This is, admittedly, easier for the followers of Mohamed, as he lead an army during his lifetime, and a lot of his writings reflect that. But Christians have managed to be excessively violent without that support. The Inquisition was probably the inspiration of some of the Nazi atrocities. Of course, there've been technical improvements since the 12th century.
The problem isn't religion, either, the Communists were rather vile at time, and you could ask the American Indians about the honesty, integrity, and kindness shown but the invading citizens of a democracy. (Or the Army. President Jackson was intentionally vile.)
That said, civilizations that see themselves as more homogeneous tend to be more supportive of their citizens. I think this is because of some built-in tribalism, but that's a guess. The correlation is an observed fact. (Of course, since the causal sequence isn't proven, there could be other observations that will disprove it...but I haven't heard of any.)
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Monday February 26 2018, @03:48PM (3 children)
Wrong, wrong, and wrong.
Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab (1703 – 1792.)
Timur was only nominally Muslim and simply used religion in a thoroughly political way and transparently cynical way. He ruled as an oriental potentate, a 'Great Khan' in conscious imitation of Genghiz, and he was viewed by such. You'll not find him listed as an Imam at all, let alone a significant one.
You should check out lettertobaghdadi.com
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Monday February 26 2018, @05:33PM (2 children)
Did you not read what I wrote? You aren't disagreeing with my point, even if you think you are.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Monday February 26 2018, @07:07PM (1 child)
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Monday February 26 2018, @11:29PM
No, I didn't make any claim about some recently founded branch of Islam, except that they aren't both peaceful and dominant.
To be certain I went back and reread my original post.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday February 24 2018, @01:57AM (13 children)
Or maybe it was just a straightforward genocide. There wouldn't have been many bodies, right?
(Score: 2) by Arik on Saturday February 24 2018, @02:15AM (12 children)
Except that's completely inconsistent with the DNA.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday February 24 2018, @05:28AM (11 children)
Inconsistent how?
My take is you don't have replacement this sudden without a die-off of some sort. Genocide is an obvious way for that to happen.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Arik on Saturday February 24 2018, @05:56AM (9 children)
In that both y and mt dna strands believed to date from that original population are still found in the current population of the island, as well as in other populations derived from it at an earlier date, a result that clearly shows that no 'replacement' ever occurred?
Yeah, that's a good starter.
"Genocide is an obvious way for that to happen."
Umm, sure, I guess, if you don't really understand what was going on, that might make some sort of sense. Well, a little bit. Kind of.
Nah, sorry, I can't take the strain of lying. That makes no sense at all, not in a realistic frame. Maybe if you think 'Game of Thrones' is realistic, you'd think it does.
Make no mistake, genocide DID occur. Our ancestors were right bastards just about every time they really got a proper chance to be. It's shocking, and scandalous, and stuff. Sorry I'm getting old and I've known this since I was 3 or 4 so I can't get worked up over it in such extreme distance.
The point is while it did occur it did not occur with anything near the free-wheeling frequency that the bad writers in style at the corner of hollywood and 9mm want you to think. And while you can say the genetic evidence is 'consistent' with some pretty nasty scenarios, it's also 'consistent' with a much less nasty readings as well.
Why automatically select the meanest thing you can possibly argue for, hrmm?
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday February 24 2018, @06:46AM (1 child)
That's not inconsistent with genocide or replacement. There have been numerous genocides since where the targets have managed in various ways to propagate their genes onward.
What bad writers? There's almost nothing written of those times. And it's not like you actually disagree.
Because that's a real possibility in this case. One population disappears right when a second population moves in.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Monday February 26 2018, @03:17PM
It doesn't. It's still present millennia later, in rather large proportions. How does that equal disappeared?
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by fritsd on Saturday February 24 2018, @11:27AM
That's a good question...
In general (excluding large gaps such as the Middle Ages) I think we can see history as a progression of technology: we have much higher technology now than in the Iron Age.
Also I believe personally that the pace accelerated after the Enlightenment, and because of the Enlightenment.
I don't believe that we can see human culture as a whole as a progression of (what to call it.. sociology??). Now in our lifetimes we *have* a charter of Human Rights, however that doesn't mean that every person on earth can expect those standards and expect to be able to complain and have their complaint redressed if they're being oppressed.
So "technology" and "culture" do NOT progress apace; high technology depends on high culture I believe: keeping the nerds and weirdos alive and thriving instead of burning them at the stake. The reverse does not apply viz. Orwell.
So there can be a common thought "in old times, peope's lives were harsh, brutish and short"; "people were much more mean to each other in old times so obviously the newcomers genocided the autochthones" but I think that does not follow (it may still be true or untrue for different cases).
Sorry that I can't articulate better what I mean.
Also, we wouldn't know what mitochondrial DNA [wikipedia.org] is, and that it inherits from your mom's ancestry only, without high technology.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Saturday February 24 2018, @07:06PM (5 children)
More to the point, before automatic weaponry genocide over a large area was a nearly impossible undertaking, requiring centralized organization. The Greeks couldn't even exterminate the Trojans. (Troy was beleaguered, not besieged.)
So genocide is quite unlikely.
OTOH, population restriction due to habitat destruction is quite plausible...and needn't even be intentional. Agricultural land practices don't work well with hunter gatherers.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday February 25 2018, @04:07PM (4 children)
They or someone else succeeded in razing the city around 1200 BC. And genocide doesn't mean one entirely succeeds.
(Score: 3, Informative) by HiThere on Sunday February 25 2018, @06:53PM (3 children)
While I agree they destroyed the city, the city was not the population. Up until the 1900's generally over 80% of the population lived outside the cities. So they overthrew the government, destroyed the city, captured the defenders of the city, etc. That's not genocide. If you want early genocide, look at the Mongols, Huns, etc. who *did* commit genocide with less than 100% effectiveness. Yes, this sort of invalidates my earlier claim, but not really unless you show that the invaders had not only [slightly] superior weapons and tactics, but also more rapid means of transportation. Faster transport enables genocide by making it difficult to get away. Superior weapons and tactics are necessary to enable smaller groups to defeat larger groups This was much more necessary before the days of food preservation. The Persians lack of decent supply chains are (part of) why the Persians couldn't defeat the Greeks.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday February 25 2018, @11:43PM (2 children)
Not during a Bronze Age siege (beleaguer [oxforddictionaries.com] was derived from "to besiege" in Dutch BTW) , they aren't. The attackers wouldn't have the logistics or the desire to supply their army fully from home. Anything near Troy would have been looted eventually. You're not going to have the population hang around while that is going on.
Destroying the city counts just by itself as a genocide since many civilians would have died in the process. Looking at the Odyssey, Homer doesn't indicate that the city inhabitants were put to the sword, so it is possible that there would have been a good number of survivors of the genocide.
Mongols are in a class by themselves with such massacres over most of the Asian continent through to Eastern Europe. Here, genocide was a tool of subjugation not a tool of elimination. It was never meant to be 100% effective in most cases - the few survivors would carry the tales of Mongolian brutality to their fellow subjects and fear would keep the populace in line.
And perhaps you might recall writing [soylentnews.org]:
Timur took over the last khanate in the Middle East and used traditional Mongolian methods of genocide to pacify his conquests. That we can still see the brutal effects of these conquests and genocides throughout both Eastern Europe and the Middle East 600-800 years later is a demonstration of their effectiveness. For example, prior to the Mongols, Khwarezm [wikipedia.org] was a great empire centered on Turkmenistan with most of Iran, Uzbekistan, and Afghanistan contained within it. Present day, it is a backwater. The scouring by the Mongolians and Timur have destroyed a great civilization.
Similarly, Ukraine was a great kingdom of Europe (possibly, the largest at the time) prior to the coming of the Mongols and the sacking of Kiev. As a result of its collapse, when Mongolian power waned, it was Russia city states not Ukraine which was able to take advantage of the power vacuum.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by aristarchus on Monday February 26 2018, @01:52AM
The relevant epic poem here, khallow, is the P. VERGILI MARONIS AENEIDOS [thelatinlibrary.com]
(Score: 2) by Arik on Monday February 26 2018, @03:33PM
"Destroying the city counts just by itself as a genocide since many civilians would have died in the process."
The "people of the land" might not have been considered very important by the bronze age elites in their fortified city, but they were still by far the majority of the population and their perspective is a valid one to take. And you're right that they wouldn't have hung around near to the site of the siege for very long! but neither would they have retreated more than necessary, before resuming their normal livelihoods. I would read 'genocide' rather less liberally than you, however. It's genocide because civilians died? WTF? So nearly every conflict ever was genocide? Can't agree on that.
Genocide to me would imply a credible attempt by the Achæans to wipe out the Luwiya people, the 'ethnos' or tribe to which the Trojans most likely belonged, and there's no evidence of that whatsoever. It's not a war of extermination between tribes it's a war between two wealthy elites over hurt pride, and when it's done the invaders get back in their ships and head home to lick wounds and resume squabbling amongst themselves.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 25 2018, @08:21AM
khallow, take your hand out of your pant, right now, young man! You are never to jack-off in public over genocide again, do you understand! (We might have to go back to the mittens. You don't want to have to wear the mittens again, do you khallow?)
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Behindmyscreen on Saturday February 24 2018, @01:21AM
As an Atheist.....Fuck off racist fuck.
(Score: 5, Informative) by maxwell demon on Saturday February 24 2018, @10:46AM
Muslims are members of a religion, not an ethnicity. You can become Muslim without your genes changing, and you can stop being Muslim without your genes changing.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @07:25PM
You had me going until the last line. You have to go back, to whichever imageboard you crawled in from. Read a book for once in your life; Britain has always been a predominantly Muslim country.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Ethanol-fueled on Friday February 23 2018, @11:40PM (28 children)
The approach considers the view of history worldwide, from a fatalist philosophy.
There's a reason why it's called fatalism -- when you submit rather than fight, you die, or at least become subdued. You can subscribe to the "it is what it is" philosophy, the rest of us want to live and we want a higher, not lower, standard of living. To elevate yourself philosophically is to ignore reality. And we all live and die in reality.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @12:25AM (27 children)
I suggest anyone who doubts this look at the extinction of the Neanderthals - the model of an egalitarian society where the men, women and children hunted big game together. The Neanderthals were out-competed by homo-sapiens who specialized along gender roles and had the children hunt even smaller prey. As the population of avian species will dwindle and rise, it's our liberal heritage that needs to take flight. The west is the best and the fight is on against replacement migration and cuckold, globalist politicians. Worldwide economic growth has been at the expense of Western nations for too long. Population increase has been most severe in the poverty stricken countries and we are under no obligation to support it. Fight or die!
(Score: 2) by Arik on Saturday February 24 2018, @12:35AM (24 children)
Nope.
Binford famously argued that they were much more rigidly segregated than any modern human population. I rather think he was probably wrong on that, but the evidence supports his position a lot better than the opposite position, which you clearly just extracted from your rectal cavity.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @12:47AM (21 children)
No, the evidence supports the fact that Neanderthals hunted together in groups [nytimes.com] and the division of labor was elsewhere. [thehumanevolutionblog.com]
I often agree with you but will not entertain arguments pulled from your rectal cavity!
(Score: 3, Informative) by Arik on Saturday February 24 2018, @01:04AM (20 children)
"Hunting large game at close range is perilous, and Neanderthal skeletons bear copious fractures. Dr. Kuhn and Dr. Stiner argue that Neanderthal women and children took part in the dangerous hunts, probably as beaters and blockers of exit routes."
See, when you get to the actual claim, you find that the clickbait headlines were just clickbait headlines, yet again.
It's not all that unusual for modern HSS women and children to "take part in dangerous hunts" in just the same relatively low risk roles.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @01:17AM (19 children)
You are splitting hairs here; Neanderthals engaged in communal hunts while homo-sapiens specialised and out-competed them. Exactly as I originally stated!
(Score: 2) by Arik on Saturday February 24 2018, @01:31AM (18 children)
"Neanderthals engaged in communal hunts while homo-sapiens specialised and out-competed them. Exactly as I originally stated!"
Drastically overgeneralizing at best. Incoherent at worst.
You don't think HSS engaged in communal hunts? Huh?
Did you even read your sources?
The picture I get, if I take them for gospel, is that HSS was LESS specialized, and therefore less reliant on communal hunting.
They may or may not be correct about that. There's often a tremendous amount of weight placed on narrow interpretations that may or may not be correct.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @01:50AM (17 children)
Garbage -- the only thing incoherent here is your argument!
You quoted this passage stating exactly what I stated and then begin arguing with me? The passage you yourself copied and pasted 100% confirms my original statement. You are arguing against your own evidence, I said no more or no less than what the statement you presented offers. WTF dude?
(Score: 2) by Arik on Saturday February 24 2018, @01:59AM (16 children)
Again, this is no different from many groups of HSS. So even if it's right it doesn't explain any difference!
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @02:08AM (15 children)
I see, so can you now tell us why mass immigration occurs only in Western nations and not in Israel? It's not like the Judea tribe expelled from Israel with their "chosen people" bullshit was the first recorded concept of a master race at a time when civilization was heading towards universalism or anything is it? Can you tell us why the majority of individuals supporting the mass immigration of sub-Saharan Africans into the West happen to be Jewish? I'm not alt-right or anything, I just have an inkling you may have the answers to these questions. Thanks in advance...
(Score: 2) by Arik on Saturday February 24 2018, @02:27AM (2 children)
Wow. You must have really had quite the singular experience, if reading my post convinced you that I am the person that can explain everything and anything.
I'm not sure the confidence is well-placed but I'll try to give you a good answer.
First off, 'mass immigration' clearly the word 'mass' is your tipoff that this might have something to do with scale. You oppose 'Western nations' and 'Israel' as opposites - Israel certainly wants to be considered a western nation, and in some ways at least it should be, but let's set that aside as well for the moment as I'm honestly not sure what all you're trying to get at. Israel has a lot less mass and thus can absorb a lot less mass, there, that's something both good and true.
But it's a mistake to think that Israel hasn't or doesn't experience mass immigration. Ask any Palestinian.
Again, I'm not really sure what you're getting at here. I've seen others here make similar remarks and I hate to read them as the worst but maybe that's what you're doing. Am I being once again accused of supporting 'my tribe' in some nefarious fashion here?
If that's what you're trying to do go ahead and spit it out, get it off your chest.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @03:04AM (1 child)
Arik, this AC has no issue with you as I often see your comments here and agree with much of what you say. It is not the case that I will not challenge Zionist arguments or that you didn't understand where the Neanderthal extinction point was heading. [knowyourmeme.com] You knew (or should have known) but argued against 'evidence' you yourself presented and I just blew it all to pieces in context of the larger picture. There is no sophistry that helps you here -- you yourself posted a snippet confirming everything I originally stated. For the record, I think the Balfour declaration was a mistake but support Israel's right to exist all the same.
We're done here -- although we're both capable of more the rabbit hole is too deep. Look forward to talking again some time though ;)
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Arik on Saturday February 24 2018, @03:36AM
"It is not the case that I will not challenge Zionist arguments or that you didn't understand where the Neanderthal extinction point was heading."
Shut it down, the goyim know? My sides, anon, my sides.
No, I swear, I did not understand where that was heading. You could say I caught the faint gestank of it but I did not properly believe it until I opened this post.
"You knew (or should have known) but argued against 'evidence' you yourself presented and I just blew it all to pieces in context of the larger picture."
Did I? That sounds really abominable. But I truly haven't the faintest idea what you're talking about. Try to be more specific?
"For the record, I think the Balfour declaration was a mistake but support Israel's right to exist all the same."
Alright anon. I guess you wanted a response? I'm not at all sure it was a good idea but it's not far enough in the past that I can easily examine it in a non-biased way and yet it is not recent enough that I can feel outrage over it. It was done by a generation before my birth, who knows exactly what they thought would result? I do not.
I could easily write essays of excessive length arguing both sides of that. Let's spare the board that alphabetorium, it would serve no purpose, any reader will either not be prepared to understand, or could write the section without our help.
Quite frankly I'm skeptical of the notion that any state has a 'right to exist.' People have a right to exist. Jewish people certainly have a right to exist in Judea. Crypto-jews certainly have a right to exist in Judea as well. Doesn't bother me a bit if they talk about Jesus or Mohammed or Siddha G'tauma when they clearly mean Joshua.
Can we not occasionally make a small joke without violence in response?
The original Temple at Jerusalem was the Temple of the Stranger, of the Traveller. This is reflected very strikingly in some stories in the Torah. This was a cult of good-will, a cult of kindness to strangers, of provision to travellers. This is the tradition that I would like to see carried forward in Jerusalem.
What I want or would like to see is, unfortunately, not worth much more than a can of beans in terms of what happens to the people trying to live a life in Jerusalem in 2018.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @03:19AM
Nope. You're just a troll. And not a very good one either.
Once there was an art in trolling. You're just a hack.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @04:38AM (4 children)
Well, since you asked so nicely, I'll tell you.
We (your masters and owners) over at the International Jewish Conspiracy (IJC) have long coveted more land. In the late 1960s, we decided that land should be Europe. It's not too far from Jerusalem, has significant infrastructure and is populated by morons like you.
We determined that the best way to depopulate Europe so we could walk right in was to create "islamic" (we always belly laugh at that one during our meetings) terror groups to destabilize the middle east and north Africa, sending wave after wave of poor, frightened refugees to overwhelm European resources. We peppered those groups with highly trained, arab looking Mossad operatives to sow discontent among the refugees and the europeans, putting them at each other's throats.
That part of the plan is well under way, so we're now moving to phase III (sorry, can't let the cat out of the bag about that or our plan might move more slowly), but the end goal is for the Eurotrash and the sand niggers to kill each other off almost completely, then we'll come in and mop up.
Our evil and nefarious plan, The Jewish Master Race Real Estate Expansion Plan (JEEP for short) will leave Europe in our greedy, grasping, poison in the well, christian baby eating hands. So. Now you know. Not that there's anything you can do about it, you goy moron. BWAHAHAHAHA!! BWAHAHAHAHA! BWAHAHAHAHA!
The status report I got along with my most recent IJC dividend check says that everything is going according to plan and to schedule. Good times!
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Arik on Saturday February 24 2018, @05:26AM (3 children)
Shibboleth Sibelit. If European agencies are competent such plans would likely come to naught. An occasional partial success doesn't threaten civilization.
If European agencies are underfunded undercompetent and in fact submissive... oops.
Yeah, sorry, reality does suck at times.
But it's not my fault and blaming me for it or accusing me of dishonestly supporting malfeasance is simply wrong at best.
I can't fix a fundamentally unjust world with the snap of my fingers. I'm not Joshua. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRZ1ePEmhsk)
Just a smart guy that tries to do what he can. Don't exaggerate my power. Don't minimize my goodwill.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @06:01AM (2 children)
Are you this gullible IRL?
If so, would you like to engage in a *very* profitable business enterprise?
(Score: 2) by Arik on Saturday February 24 2018, @06:06AM
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @06:21AM
(Score: 2, Informative) by khallow on Saturday February 24 2018, @05:49AM (5 children)
First, mass immigration happens in Israel as well. Wikipedia indicates [wikipedia.org] that 20% of the Jewish population (75% of the total population) is first generation immigrants. That's 15% of the total population which is higher than the US which is 14% [pewhispanic.org] and which in turn is higher than most of the rest of the developed world.
And of course, if one takes third generation or less immigrants, that's almost the entire Jewish population. You don't have that high a rate of immigration in any other developed world country.
You're off by an order of magnitude. There are a lot of people who support immigration. They can't mostly be Jews, because there aren't that many Jews.
And really what's the big deal with Jews backing their own self-interest (they tend to be recent immigrants in the US and would favor pro-immigration policy). I don't get any more worked over them pursuing their interests than I do over any other ethnic group doing so.
And who knows? You might not be bullshitting us right now. But I can't help but notice that you're way off in your assertions. But I guess that's what happens when you pull stuff out of your ass. Sometimes you happen to get lucky and it's close enough to right, but most of the time, you're not even in the ballpark. One wonders what other stuff you've pulled out of your ass in this discussion.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @08:47AM (1 child)
Hey Khallow.
I hope you realize by now that the AC to whom you replied is either an honestly anti-semitic piece of shit with poor rhetorical skills or a troll who isn't very good at trolling.
Personally, I think he's the latter. Then again, both you and Arik did respond seriously to him, so maybe he's not so bad at it, even though I picked up on it pretty quickly.
I suppose I could be wrong, and he is just an anti-semitic piece of shit.
Either way, the result is pretty much the same.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday February 24 2018, @05:08PM
I think choice a).
At least, he can up his game.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Saturday February 24 2018, @07:17PM (2 children)
I'm still confused about what this has to do with either Neanderthals *or* the Beaker People. (As an old card-carrying member of "The Beaker People Libation Font" [a drinking group] I find this of interest.)
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday February 25 2018, @12:20AM (1 child)
I'm not similarly confused. It's off topic.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 25 2018, @08:27AM
khallow is often confused by things he knows he should be against, but as a doctrinaire ideologue, he feels he must support, even though his mother is appalled. Call your mom, khallow.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @02:28AM (1 child)
> Binford famously argued that they were much more rigidly segregated than any modern human population.
That was likely the case as the bone structures show, on the rare occasions that bones are available. Density, thickening, and microfractures all combine to tell how the body moved and what kind of labor it did base on where the are. Where the tendons attach give solid indications of muscle strength and mass as well.
So yes of course the prehistoric women were strong as hell compared even to modern athletes. But the bone records suggest that there was quite rigid separation of labor.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/11/strong-women-did-lot-heavy-lifting-ancient-farming-societies [sciencemag.org]
The men were even more so. Some research on mens bones showed even how they took the impact, presumably from spearing large, strong game animals with handheld spears. Activities like throwing spears appear to go back to neaderthal days:
https://www.livescience.com/48272-neanderthal-arm-bones.html [livescience.com]
But since archeology isn't just data but interpretation of incomplete data, it is a lot of guesswork.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Saturday February 24 2018, @07:25PM
I'd be surprised if this weren't so. I was certainly true among H.Sapiens. The men took to risky jobs, because the tribe could better afford losing men than women. And everyone helped as best they could. When you're living near the edge, this is important. Neither Neanderthals nor H.Sap were far enough from the species where those who couldn't contribute were either left or eaten. (I'm not sure if the evidence says which.) But both were far enough to support the crippled and elderly except when things got really tight.
Also, If I understand the evidence correctly, Neanderthal women had hips that were less adapted to childbirth than those of H.Sap women. This may have caused them to be more agile, but it would mean that protecting them from other dangers was more important.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Saturday February 24 2018, @10:51AM (1 child)
I'm not sure you can really consider them extinct, given that their genes are in us up to this day.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Saturday February 24 2018, @07:35PM
An interesting point is that while the Neanderthal genes are with us (and who knows how many, since most genes were identical between the two (three?) species, the Neanderthal mitochondria don't appear to be. (If they are, I haven't heard any evidence.)
My reading on that was that it was generally fatal for a Neanderthal woman to bear a child with a Cro-Magnon head. So those mitochondria tended to disappear when populations blended. I'm not sure how widely Devonian genes have spread. As far as I know they've only been definitely identified in Tibet, but IIUC there's also the argument that some features of the immune system that are widely spread come from them.
So perhaps its really a good question how accurate it is to consider them separate species. OTOH, we don't know how often cross-breeds could successfully propagate, so perhaps they are. Or perhaps humans were at that time a ring species, and as we became more mobile the gene pools merged.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 0, Troll) by realDonaldTrump on Friday February 23 2018, @11:49PM (2 children)
Not just in the UK. It's happening in America, it's called the WHITE GENOCIDE. Big reason why we need the Wall!!!!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @12:30AM (1 child)
Modern Britons "Culturally Enriched" By Newcomers
/edge
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @12:39AM
Mainly they "culturally enrich" themselves. [google.co.uk]
(Score: 5, Interesting) by legont on Friday February 23 2018, @11:54PM (2 children)
The original Britons were blacks https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/feb/07/first-modern-britons-dark-black-skin-cheddar-man-dna-analysis-reveals [theguardian.com]
They were "replaced". What else is new?
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @12:35AM
Nothing [youtube.com] except you're a cheese chomping shirt-lifter!
(Score: 2) by Weasley on Saturday February 24 2018, @05:00AM
You are mistaken. The first Britons were Neanderthals.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by turgid on Saturday February 24 2018, @12:02AM (1 child)
WE VOATID LEEEEEV!!!! ENGERLUND FOR VA INGURLISH!!!! FARRIDGE 4 KING?!!!!!
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 5, Funny) by Thexalon on Saturday February 24 2018, @12:12AM
The thing is, the new Beaker culture has a very different language which sounds something like this:
"Meep, meeeep, meep meep meeeeeeeeeeeep! MEEEEEP!"
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by frojack on Saturday February 24 2018, @12:02AM (1 child)
Maybe the Beaker were just better looking, sexier, whatever. Married up all the girls, seduced all the guys.
Maybe the previous residents were too inbred (sort of a british thing still, isn't it?).
In the absence of historical evidence of wars and conflict, few hundred years is sufficient time for simple assimilation by better genes.
Today we watch the Browning of America, and nobody is blaming that on Climate Change or ecological disaster, not even Ethanol Fueled.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @12:50AM
Only things that Dems don't like get blamed on climate change. They are ok with browning (so am I).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @12:17AM
Now we know how the Brits got their distinctive looks and, possibly, the bad teeth. They got it from the Newcomers [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @12:31AM (1 child)
They say "climate change, disease and ecological disaster could all have played a role", hmmm?
That would be a negligible role for sure. Credibility goes out the window when you blame every random thing on climate change. You're putting down nonsensical keywords in a desperate bid for funding.
More realistically: they brought better crops, better military technology (those copper daggers?), and a better ability to organize a massive campaign of genocide. Language, race, and religion would act to keep the group distinct and thus enable a prolonged effort to wipe out the previous group.
Can the researchers not admit that? Would it be taboo, possibly because it is suggestive of a population replacement happening in the modern world?
(Score: 2) by Dr Spin on Saturday February 24 2018, @09:17AM
More realistically: they brought various diseases the natives had no immunity to. So far, the evidence suggests measles and plague.
Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @12:37AM (11 children)
The trolls and "White Nationalists" [knowyourmeme.com] are out in force on this posting.
You go, girls! And don't forget to starch your brown shirts [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 5, Insightful) by AthanasiusKircher on Saturday February 24 2018, @12:46AM (10 children)
Indeed. It's crap like this that makes me take week-long breaks (or longer) from reading SoylentNews sometimes. And no, it's not that my "precious little snowflake" brain can't handle other views. I'm happy to read actual coherent thoughts, even those I vehemently disagree with. I just don't really care to read a bunch of BS trolling about racism, climate change, etc., rather than informative or insightful comments about an article.
I was excited to see a comment number so high on a story only posted an hour ago... thinking people might actually be making interesting comments about history or archaeology. Alas...
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @01:43AM (1 child)
Any time the comment count goes up rapidly, it's all trolling.
(Score: 3, Funny) by aristarchus on Saturday February 24 2018, @02:42AM
Not quite all of it is trolling, some of it is rolling menhirs to the jobsite, before the racist trolls even show up.
(Score: 2) by Whoever on Saturday February 24 2018, @03:34AM
I was somewhat surprised at how overt the racism and xenophobia is in this post. Even for Soylentnews, it's over the top.
I should not be surprised at the xenophobia: probably most of the GOP and Libertarian supporters here rarely get out of their mothers' basements and have rarely been out of their county, let alone out of the country.
(Score: 2, Disagree) by Whoever on Saturday February 24 2018, @03:39AM (6 children)
Incidentally, I can't find a thread where TMB was owned and his hypocrisy was made plain for all to see.
Is he deleting discussions from the database?
(Score: 2) by takyon on Saturday February 24 2018, @08:04AM (1 child)
Is this an accusation with zero evidence (disguised as posing a question) made in order to smear a hard-working admin and cover up your own incompetence in not bookmarking the thread or being able to effectively use a site search?
Wow, I should use question marks more often! :-)
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by Whoever on Saturday February 24 2018, @10:36PM
Apparently I owe TMB an apology. Some more searching and I was able to find the thread that I thought had gone missing.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday February 24 2018, @03:40PM (3 children)
"Owned" is probably in the eye of the beholder.
(Score: 3, Informative) by aristarchus on Sunday February 25 2018, @08:32AM (2 children)
Ah, this is why both you, Oh Less Than Mighty Runaway, and The Mangy Broussard, are both still here! You are incapable of sensing when you have been "Powned". Everyone else can see it, even takyon, who did not refute the assertion of "Ownededness", but only the accusation of face-saving deletions. Which I have to say, SoylentNews, whatever its other flaws, does not do. So, you are owned again, Runaway. Too bad you cannot see it. So come at me again, bro! This would be fun, if it were not so pathetic. Poor Runaway.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday February 25 2018, @08:49AM (1 child)
Come at you? Really? And, what? You'll make more pathetic noises about your age, experience, and wisdom? I think I'll go sort my socks into pairs - arguing with you is just dull.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Sunday February 25 2018, @09:25AM
Kind of the conclusion I was trying to lead you to, so that you would shut up and stop embarrassing yourself by exposing your lack of knowledge and reasoning skills. Glad we finally agree on something.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @01:12AM (2 children)
So the newcomers had pots and brewed some beer. Back in those days, a girl only needed a few swigs before she'd spread her legs.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @01:31AM (1 child)
Not much has changed, eh?
(Score: 3, Funny) by MostCynical on Saturday February 24 2018, @04:16AM
Apparently not.
http://www.nerdware.org/doc/essexgirls.html [nerdware.org]
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 3, Funny) by idiot_king on Saturday February 24 2018, @01:34AM
So the British Empire was indeed a dish served very, very cold then, I suppose?
(Still doesn't make the Empire okay from an ethical standpoint- just funny in retrospect.)
(Score: 3, Interesting) by deimtee on Saturday February 24 2018, @02:21AM (5 children)
If only 10% of the current gene pool came from the original inhabitants, I think it would be interesting to know the % of X and Y genes that came through.
I would guess that the the higher the difference between X and Y the more likely it is that the takeover was violent.
If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @05:47AM (4 children)
Or the newcomers were mainly men. They could have just met some locals and started mating like rabbits. Somehow they displaced the natives. It doesn't mean they killed them.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @07:09AM (3 children)
Given an average carryover of 10% of genes :
A biblical scenario of 'kill all the men rape all the women' would result in Y being almost zero. X being almost 15%.
A completely non-hostile, move in and interbreed scenario should have X and Y at 10%, same as the rest of the genome.
A group composed solely of men is called an army. It is not going to peacably displace the local men.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @07:49AM (2 children)
But what if it was an army of Amazons? You know, like Xena the Social Justice Warrior Princess? With free shipping if you sign up for Prime? Then they could have almost completely replaced the original inhabitants. Right?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @11:35PM (1 child)
In that case, X% should be about 5 and Y% almost 100.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 25 2018, @09:26AM
You mean, like, Wyoming?