from the I-wonder-who-delivers-the-parts? dept.
UPS will work with partner Workhorse, a battery-electric transportation technology company, to develop and deploy a fleet of 50 custom-built plug-in electric delivery trucks with zero emissions.
The goal is to make trucks that cost as much to buy as do traditional fuel-based delivery vehicles — even without taking into account subsidies. The Workhorse-designed vehicles will be all-electric, and are designed to run on a single charge throughout a normal delivery day and then charge back up overnight.
Workhorse says they'll have a 100-mile range, which is a good fit for in-city routes, and the trucks will first enter testing in urban areas in various parts of the U.S., including Atlanta, Dallas and LA. The test will lead to fine-tuning, which will lead to a larger fleet deployment targeting 2019.
Source: TechCrunch
Also at The Verge, Reuters and Cincinnati.com
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 25 2018, @03:36PM (2 children)
Last para of the link says:
> UPS’ goal ... as well as to hopefully reap benefits in terms of vehicle operation efficiency, and the cost of maintenance (which should be far less using all-electric trucks).
Tires are probably going to still be a large cost. Stop-start operation (UPS, mail trucks, etc) is hell on tire wear -- I've heard that the little post office trucks get less than 10K miles before the tires are worn out.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Sunday February 25 2018, @07:55PM (1 child)
Low bid tires. Poor fleet maintenance. disgruntled drivers, curb damage.
Even with all that, the number seems exceedingly low. Worse than factory tires on a cheap import.
The type of driving local delivery entails isn't that demanding. They don't have the horsepower to even spin the wheels, seldom get up to 50mph.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @02:35AM
Every car and light truck has enough brakes to lock the tires, this has little to do with engine power. The "stopping" part of start-stop operation is probably what wears the tires out so quickly. Even when it doesn't feel like the tires are slipping, there is a "tire slip ratio" created when accelerating and braking, and small parts of the tire footprint are sliding over the road. Ask around at any urban delivery fleet (like post office), the tire tread doesn't last long compared to normal automotive use.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 25 2018, @07:47PM (2 children)
Companies that use them leave me equally unimpressed.
These services will just leave stuff by your front door.
...or they will leave a note on your door that says you have to go to their depot to pick up your stuff.
Just send it to me parcel post.
My mailbox is big enough to hold most things.
...and it's a federal crime for anyone except me or the postal carrier to mess with my mailbox.
...and, BTW, if you live off the beaten path, the commercial corps will hand off the final mile to USPS anyway.
...not to mention the crappy way that commercial operations treat their personnel.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Goghit on Monday February 26 2018, @03:56AM (1 child)
Just wait until you have to ship cross border. Friends don't ship to Canadian friends using United Parcel Smashers. In the early 2000s they found they couldn't compete on price and customer service up here so they sued Canada under NAFTA for daring to have a national postal service. The tribunal eventually ruled against them but still, WTF?
Oddly enough, the US is willing to drop the Investor-State trade dispute mechanism from NAFTA, but our corporate bum-fuck Canadian politicians, despite us being the most sued country under these clauses, is arguing to keep them.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @07:54AM
Don't have any of those.
Can't think of any Canuck business with whom I have ever done business either.
Yeah, if your stuff is crossing borders, USA's Postal System shouldn't be your first choice.
That seems painfully obvious.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by frojack on Sunday February 25 2018, @07:48PM (7 children)
These trucks are going to have to have their load delivered to them in the field by other trucks.
There is no way they could start at the UPS Distribrution hub, then run out to their route, and do the entire rout,e and run back again ALL under 100 miles.
Open Google maps, search for UPS Distribution Center, ask it to show a route to your location. For me that is 71 miles ONE WAY (ymmv).
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by toddestan on Sunday February 25 2018, @08:05PM (2 children)
The UPS distribution centers I know about aren't in the middle of nowhere. Since they are talking about a limited deployment, I would imagine they are going to start with the routes that don't go far from the distribution center. Since the one I'm most familiar with is in a light industrial/office park area, with a residential neighborhood across the street from one side of it, the idea seems very doable.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Sunday February 25 2018, @10:37PM (1 child)
How far it it from the city center? Or from you for that matter?
That you can find a residential area near one, hardly justifies an entire development effort for a new truck.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by toddestan on Tuesday February 27 2018, @03:01AM
It's about 15 miles from the city center, give or take a few miles. It's also about 15 miles from me (I don't live in the city center, but another 'burb). So that's enough range to drive to the city, drive around some, and get back. That's assuming they even have to drive a route. The place I work for does enough shipping that FedEx will bring a truck 100% full of shipments only to us, drop them all off, fill the truck 100% with shipments from us, and go back to wherever they came from (I don't actually know where FedEx's distribution center is). If we switched to UPS they could do the same thing, and that's only about 30 miles - will within range.
I would guess that UPS knows what they are doing. They have a lot of trucks, and even if they can only replace 10-20% of them, it may very well be worth it if the savings are enough. Keep in mind UPS already designs their own trucks. And this effort is really just the first generation - they'll take what they learn and build a second, third, etc. generation that will be able to replace more of their fleet. It may be a very long time before 100% of UPS's trucks could be electric, but it wouldn't surprise me terribly if in 15-20 years if most of them were electric.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 25 2018, @08:28PM
Then they will not use it to deliver to you. 50 trucks? That is a small trial run for a company the size of UPS.
Using your same thought experiment. Take that same distribution center how many businesses and homes are in say a 25 mill radius of that hub? That is that much less fuel they need to buy.
From my location there are 4 hubs within 30 miles of my house (I am in the middle of them). That covers about 3 million people.
100 does seem quite low. They should make the battery pack larger. A day truck LTL runner will probably hit somewhere between 250-500 miles in one day. For UPS I would suspect the delivery trucks have a much lower mileage as the drivers also have to stop frequently and load/unload.
This is along the lines of 'what if we'. Companies this size run trials like this all the time. I would be very very surprised if this is their first time running electric trucks. It is more along the lines of what is the logistics of electricity. What happens if they break down. etc etc etc.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @02:40AM
14 miles one way from UPS distribution center to my house in an outer ring suburb (medium sized metro area).
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Monday February 26 2018, @03:26AM (1 child)
Not everyone lives in suburban/rural areas.
Here are a few examples:
Millions live and work within a 50 mile radius of this UPS distribution center [google.com]
At least a million people live/work within a 50 mile radius of this UPS distribution center [google.com].
At least 5% of the US population lives or works within 50 miles of this UPS distribution center [google.com].
What's more, those are not the only UPS distribution hubs in those areas. As such, a vehicle with a 100 mile range seems perfectly reasonable for those areas, IMHO.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @04:22AM
Obviously, UPS doesn't know where their vehicles go. No, sir. The company that saves in all kind of ways from planning their routes has no idea at all about when the trucks will run out of electricity.
Soylentils don't read the article, not even the summary saying "the trucks will first enter testing in urban areas in various parts of the U.S., including Atlanta, Dallas and LA." UPS must know where the trucks already fit and probably already know how much savings to expect. They just want to confirm them.
But no, Soylentils know UPS is going to use them for long routes and fail.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 25 2018, @10:12PM (10 children)
They are late to the game.
Streetscooter, founded by now-privatized Germa Post, has developed these: https://www.streetscooter.eu/en/ [streetscooter.eu]
Not only post offices are using them, they are also selling to city-based plumbers, carpenters, painters. They love them. Those vans are hot stuff right now.
They are so successful that Streetscooter is now building a second factory and also introducing new, smaller options as well, e.g. delivery trikes.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Sunday February 25 2018, @10:41PM
Not even half large enough for the average US route trucks in the US.
Maybe good enough for Joe Plumber.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Sunday February 25 2018, @11:31PM (5 children)
European cities have population density, as well as a different cultural imperative around smaller vehicles.
It seems, from reading soylent and elsewhere, that many/most/lots of Americans believe: 1. They will need to drive 500 miles at the drop of a hat, despite not driving more than 50miles a day in the last few years; 2. Bigger is better. F100? No: F350, for a single occupant commute! (2a, anyone in a smaller vehicle is an eco-terrorist, wimp, gay, and/or a target) and 3. Any company attempting to improve efficiency, reduce costs, or make things better is only allowed to do it if they don't threaten points 1 or 2.
No one got this upset when couriers started using GPS or bar codes on packages, or computerized inventory and package tracking. This one additional piece of technology seems to cause far more angst.
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @12:52AM
UPS needs a delivery truck that's big enough for all the packages they want to deliver in one run. Their desire for a big truck is based on economics, not cultural norms. Sure they could use a bunch of small trucks instead of a big one. But that would be more expensive.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @02:44AM (3 children)
> Americans believe: 1. They will need to drive 500 miles at the drop of a hat
We did something close to 400 miles yesterday to attend a lecture and also drop off 17 boxes of donations to a specialized library. I'll be doing the same thing a few more times this year.
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Monday February 26 2018, @02:52AM (2 children)
You win today's "I'm exceptional!" award.
https://itstillruns.com/far-americans-drive-work-average-7446397.html [itstillruns.com]
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @07:17AM (1 child)
My average miles per day is low but I make much longer trips a few times a year.
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Tuesday February 27 2018, @09:11AM
Most people don't manage EV maximum range in over two weeks. The half under the average, even longer.
Many households have two, or more vehicles. One of them could be an EV (likely most, but the tpruck isn't there, yet)
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @01:04AM
The biggest truck they have is this:
https://www.streetscooter.eu/en/work-l [streetscooter.eu]
Limited to 85kph or 52 mph and 960kg or 2116 lbs. With a whopping range of 130k or 80 miles.
This might work fine for the post office, but not an actual parcel delivery truck. Heck I remember getting V8 car engines shipped via fed ex when I worked at a dealership. A 4.6l Ford V8 weighs about 500 lbs. These trucks couldn't cut the mustard.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @02:48AM (1 child)
Who can afford one of these? What do trades-people charge in Europe??
46350 Euro equals 57081 US Dollar -- that's about double the cost of a US tradesman van (no windows or seats).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @04:20AM
That price is for the biggest van and includes taxes. Probably those can be removed if bought for working. In some countries they allow 50% or 100% depending in things like kind of vehicle, proof of usage or visible logos. So the price could easily be ~20% lower.