Sweden will do whatever it takes, including sending in the army, to end a wave of violence that has seen a string of deadly shootings, Prime Minister Stefan Lofven said in Wednesday.
Sweden's murder rate is relatively low in international terms, but gang violence has surged in recent years and Swedes are worried that the police are unable to cope.
In 2016, the latest year for which official statistics are available, 106 people were murdered in Sweden, a country of 10 million.
But Swedish TV reported there were over 300 shootings, mostly in turf battles between gangs over drugs, protection rackets and prostitution.
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Swedish PM Does Not Rule Out Use of Army to End Gang Violence
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(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @07:37PM (60 children)
If it was racist to notice and comment on immigrant criminality before, does that mean the Swedish government is full of racists now?
(Score: 1, Funny) by aristarchus on Monday February 26 2018, @08:02PM (35 children)
Islamophobic agitprop right here on SoylentNews? Would you not prefer a nice, soothing aristarchus submission?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @08:36PM (34 children)
One that tells us a country inviting predominately fighting age male immigrants from some of the most troubled countries in the world will not end in violence because... magical unicorns? Migrant areas of Sweden are not becoming war zones because of centrists or people on the right. There are well understood socio-economic studies predicting exactly what would happen with massive low skilled migration. The far-left have denigrated anybody trying to explain as "racist" for so long, we shouldn't let them off the hook that easily. Considering deploying the army against non-white immigrants? Who are the racists now?
(Score: 1, Troll) by aristarchus on Monday February 26 2018, @08:54PM (6 children)
Oh, come now! The Swedes did not invite in the Nazis during the last war. You must be thinking of the Norwegians. Or the Bloody Brexit Brit Racist Nazi Sympathizers (BBBNRS, as we used to call them).
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @08:43AM (1 child)
Oh right, the Swedes just did business with the Nazis like nothing was happening.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @12:05PM
Another one who mixes up the the swiss and the swedes! I thought it was just me. :)
(Score: 2) by Wootery on Tuesday February 27 2018, @10:48AM (3 children)
Oh come on, you can do better than that, right? It shouldn't be hard to take the intellectual high-ground against an AC.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Wednesday February 28 2018, @09:36AM (2 children)
Was just setting the nazi bastard up for c0lo to clean his clock. Time's up, racist bastards!
(Score: 2) by Wootery on Wednesday February 28 2018, @10:32AM (1 child)
Weak sauce. Save it for reddit.
(Score: 3, Funny) by aristarchus on Wednesday February 28 2018, @10:49AM
What is a "reddit"? Is it some kind of Swedish food? Not like Lutefisk, I hope.
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @09:05PM
Replying to myself but I know Ari will appreciate this:
You'll find the Gini coefficient used extensively by the World Bank to the IMF. Here is something to understand; the successful anti-social males become relatively wealthy and then attract anti-social behaviour. It folds in on itself and we end up with places like Baltimore, Chicago and Malmo. It was inevitable in Malmo because the recent immigrants lack skills that would attract a decent wage and this mechanism is entirely irrespective of skin color.
(Score: 4, Informative) by c0lo on Monday February 26 2018, @09:52PM (22 children)
Apologies for pooping on your "Insightful" post with some reality check, but
- Crime in Sweden, Part II: Are Refugee Men Overrepresented in Swedish Crime? Mostly false [snopes.com] "Claims that newly-arrived asylum seekers are causing a crime wave in Sweden are not supported by data or local officials"
- 'Sweden has had gang problems since the '90s' [thelocal.se]
- Facts about migration, integration and crime in Sweden [government.se] - from the Sweden government.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @10:17PM (7 children)
Most of the gang members are Swedes - slow hand clap! [pewresearch.org]
Helpful explainer video [youtube.com] from a Bosnian Muslim immigrant living in Sweden.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @04:58AM (6 children)
That's an overly broad definition of a Swede. If you slice it thinner you'll find that the "gangs" and nearly all Muslim.
The rebuttal you link to comes from a Muslim himself. Try a neutral source instead. You'll get a smaller serving of taquiya that way.
(Score: 2) by Wootery on Tuesday February 27 2018, @03:04PM (5 children)
So, are you going to provide a source, or are you planning on criticising others' sources while expecting us to accept your assertions on faith?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @09:37PM
Yaaa, that isn't how trolls work, they just spread bullshit everywhere and hope some of it sticks.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 28 2018, @04:15AM
The state forbids such reports. Criticism of islam is not allowed even if the data backs it up. Have some anecdotes instead.
https://www.10news.one/nobody-wanted-to-help-swedish-woman-raped-by-20-migrants-eeew-youve-got-sperm-on-your-face/ [10news.one]
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4076394/Five-Afghan-teenagers-convicted-gang-raping-boy-knife-point-Sweden-NONE-deported-homeland-dangerous.html [dailymail.co.uk]
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2018/02/sweden-muslim-migrant-boy-rapes-man-at-gunpoint [jihadwatch.org]
If you don't like the English language sources above, then you can hire a Swedish to English translatoer or put pressure on the big name news sites to start covering it. They''ll need a large group for defence though as more reporters than this Australian have learned the hard way:
http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/news-and-current-affairs/60-minutes-film-crew-attacked-by-a-group-of-masked-men-in-stockholm-20160301-gn79oi.html [smh.com.au]
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2017/01/06/journalist-investigating-rape-epidemic-in-sweden-beat-up-by-migrants-speaking-arabic-n2267918 [townhall.com]
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 28 2018, @04:24AM
https://www.rt.com/news/369415-sweden-refugees-rape-afgan-boy/ [rt.com]
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/748589/Sweden-gang-rape-Afghanistan-gang [express.co.uk]
https://www.algemeiner.com/2014/08/18/swedish-woman-viciously-beaten-for-wearing-jewish-star-necklace/ [algemeiner.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 28 2018, @10:08AM
https://www.rt.com/news/379121-sweden-ambulance-attacks-nogo-zones/ [rt.com]
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/773310/Swedish-medics-military-equipment-enter-no-go-zones-Ambulance-Drivers-Union [express.co.uk]
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-10/postal-service-suspended-swedish-no-go-zone-because-its-not-safe [zerohedge.com]
https://www.rt.com/news/384410-sweden-postal-migrant-district/ [rt.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @03:10AM
If you have issue with the English translation, feel free to read the original versions linked to from the translations or pay for a translator.
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2018/02/journalist-the-swedish-government-has-betrayed-its-girls-and-women-in-appeasing-muslim-migrants [jihadwatch.org]
http://katerinamagasin.se/staten-bor-stallas-till-svars-brott-mot-istanbulkonventionen-ett-svek-mot-sveriges-flickor-och-kvinnor/ [katerinamagasin.se]
The problem is even in Germany
https://www.presseportal.de/pm/7847/3877548 [presseportal.de]
(Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @10:22PM (9 children)
Three things:
* "Are refugee men over-represented in Swedish crime" is he wrong question. The correct question is whether people of non-Swedish, and even more markedly non western-European origin are over-represented in crime statistics, to which the answer is a resounding "yes, very much so". The number of actual refugees in Sweden is relatively low, most migrants move to Sweden for economic reasons or to join a family member (often known as an "anchor") who successfully claimed asylum there. On the over-representation of certain groups of migrants you can read more in the (by now somewhat outdated but the current government does not allow more study on this subject...) study on this subject by BRÅ (Brottsförebyggande Rådet, crime prevention council) [1], suffice to say that the chance that a migrant commits a crime was 2.5 times that of a native (risen from 2.1 times in the previous study, the current number is higher but can not officially be published), for some crimes (e.g. aggravated rape) the number rises dramatically up to 25 in some cases.
t
* While Sweden had gang problems before - e.g. the turf war between Hells Angels and Bandidos - the current situation where parts of certain towns and cities are classed as "no-go zones" for police and other services is new. The scale of the gang problem is also new.
* The Swedish government is not a reliable source to go to when looking for "facts about migration, integration and crime" as they have failed in all three of those areas and do their best to hide these facts. Better information can be had from independent researchers like (economist) Tino Sanandaji [2], (researcher) Magnus Norell [3] etc.
[1] https://www.bra.se/download/18.cba82f7130f475a2f1800012697/1371914727881/2005_17_brottslighet_bland_personer_fodda_sverige_och_utlandet.pdf [www.bra.se]
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tino_Sanandaji [wikipedia.org]
[3] https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus_Norell [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday February 26 2018, @11:07PM (5 children)
pdf and in Sweden, doesn't play well even with the shitty Google translate. Have something more accessible, please?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 5, Interesting) by looorg on Tuesday February 27 2018, @12:13AM (4 children)
Probably not. If you want to read about Swedish crime statistics then you more or less have to be able to read Swedish, they only really do minor summaries in English at best and it's something they only started to do very recently. Google translate is hardly helpful in these matters.
That said this is not really unknown territory as far as statistics go. The normally cited report from BRÅ in regards to over-representation in crime among and compared between the normal population and immigrants is a report from 1996 called "Invandrare och invandrares barns brottslighet" (roughly translated to immigrants and their childrens criminality) which without a doubt states the over-representation in crimes of immigrants and their children (or second generation immigrants) is massive when it comes to violent crimes. If separated out by country of origin the problem was mostly focused on people from northern Africa and the middle east. The immigrants from other parts of the world such as eastern Asia and the countries that are next to Sweden was not an issue or deviated from the normal, if anything there was a lot of countries that was under-represented compared to the main population. There was a follow up about ten years later that showed the exact same things.
No new reports have been produced after these for some fairly obvious reasons, first nothing changed for the better and secondly they where a real problem for the politicians that wanted an open border multicultural society so no new reports were ordered to be produced.. So unless shown that the trend has somehow magically gone in another different or opposite direction, which there is absolutely no evidence for, one can fairly safely assume that there is a massive over representation among certain groups of male foreigners when it comes to violent crimes in Sweden, and probably also in many other countries.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @02:10AM (3 children)
This is also true in America, though all the studies about it get suppressed! Most of the crime in North America, for that matter, is committed by immigrants or the descendants of immigrants, mostly white people from Europe. Indigenous people commit a vanishingly small number of crimes in America. The only solution is to close the boarders, build a Wall-E and deport all those violent Washita back to where they came from. It should be obvious by now that they cannot be assimilated.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday February 27 2018, @02:29AM (2 children)
http://grammarist.com/homophones/border-vs-boarder/ [grammarist.com]
So it is your position that if all of the bed and breakfasts, all hotels and motels, dormitories, and the like were to be closed down, the criminal problem would - magically disappear? Yeah, probably so. If all those boarders were left standing in the rain, many would catch pneumonia, die, and disappear after they were dropped into holes in the ground.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 28 2018, @09:44AM (1 child)
Yes! Close the boarders, and the edgings! Block off the sedge! Eliminate the liminal. Eradicate the Frontier. Mark the Telemark! Send the convicts to face the barbarians! Erase the margins! Flush the estuaries. Open the gates! Spill the liquid that divides! Merge, Runaway, merge with the "all that is", and peace will find you. If not, it was fifty bucks well spent.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday February 28 2018, @03:00PM
Ότι όλα μου ακούγονται σαν Έλληνες.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday February 26 2018, @11:58PM (2 children)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tino_Sanandaji [wikipedia.org]
So, an economic "scientist" with a hobby for social "sciences", who doesn't want to be tainted by prev research on immigration.
---
https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus_Norell [wikipedia.org]
Debate rages in Sweden over Muslim Brotherhood report [thelocal.se]
---
Excuse me, but I feel the number of grains of salt I need to take with the independent researcher cited goes well above my sodium tolerance - I'm not that young anymore.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @12:49AM
So, Swedish Nazis, then? What we may call "Quisling Meatballs"?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @01:13AM
Nothing worth losing your head over [wikipedia.org] but you can always consult crime rates in origin countries [answersafrica.com] as a proxy. Also; Colombia makes the list, hardly a ringing endorsement of Socialism given the Venezuelan exodus.
(Score: 2) by arslan on Monday February 26 2018, @10:26PM (3 children)
Ummm.. in the article in the very first link.
first this...
then this...
So yea, it is just a debate in time period - at least based on the claims of that article. The new FOBs aren't doing it, but the FOBs from a few decades ago are.
Personally, I'm not surprised. Poverty tends to lead folks to crime especially where options for digging themselves out of the hole are limited and the only helping hand offered are from incumbent criminals. Mass immigration tends to lend itself to folks banding together or forging alliances to increase their survival resilience in an alien environment. One plus one equals two - gangs.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @02:10AM (1 child)
Key point there, "the only helping hand offered are from incumbent criminals." So are you arguing that we should provide more services to immigrants? Maybe help them succeed in their new home?
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @02:46AM
Because Sweden clearly isn’t doing enough... she was asking for it!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @03:58AM
> So yea, it is just a debate in time period - at least based on the claims of that article. The new FOBs aren't doing it, but the FOBs from a few decades ago are.
If you dig deeper, it is not the poverty. It is the islam. It is common for some political parties to try blame it on economc inequities but the violence follows even among wealthier families.
Over in the USA, look at the 911 moslems. They were all from wealthy, educated families to a man.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @01:56AM
I see we're back to the conservative circle jerk, or the not farm got spun back up. Hard to tell the difference :D
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 28 2018, @04:03AM (1 child)
> Who are the racists now?
You get fines and sometimes jail time for criticizing islam in Sweden. Therefore the English language news does not cover the real problems and the English language blogs that do are unsavory. They do nearly always link upstream to reputable Swedish sites. Hire a translator if that bothers you. Otherwise ,here's one of the earlier higher profile cases:
http://www.womenagainstshariah.com/2014//swedish-politician-fined-for-hate.html [womenagainstshariah.com]
Here's one of the low profile cases:
https://70news.wordpress.com/2017/05/14/woman-70-charged-with-hate-crime-for-facebook-post-migrants-defecate-in-streets-and-set-cars-on-fire/ [wordpress.com]
And here are two "gangs" that were eventually let free:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/02/08/alleged-gang-rape-facebook-shocks-sweden/97633012/ [usatoday.com]
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/10/sweden-muslim-migrants-gang-rape-wheelchair-bound-woman [jihadwatch.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 28 2018, @09:48AM
Well, I should hope so! Go back to your own country, you "preventing the rights of religions to discriminate" American, you! Your Rambo Jesus is an abomination, and God will fuck you up the ass, I swear. I will pray for you, and for the fucking up the ass part.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by janrinok on Monday February 26 2018, @08:05PM (17 children)
TFS doesn't say that this is racial crime, but that it is gang related. During editing, I changed the title in the submission to the same as the source material. The submission also made the same assertion that you have - that this is due to migrants. I wonder if you are the same AC that made the original submission?
One politician says “This is the new Sweden; the new, exciting dynamic, multicultural paradise that so many here in this assembly ... have fought to create for so many years,” But even he hasn't said that the crime is linked to immigrants or has a racial link. He does say that Sweden is multicultural society - which it is.
So why do you ask "does that mean the Swedish government is full of racists now?"
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @08:14PM (3 children)
One day, maybe we'll be able to figure out whether these gangs are comprised of Swedes of an ancient lineage, or "Swedes" of some other kind of lineage.
One day, Science will solve this enigma.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @08:19PM (1 child)
If the degree of correlation between immigration and crime in Sweden existed in the global warming debate, the science would be settled already.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @09:10PM
No, you'd still stick to the propaganda being shoved down your throat cause you just love that hard sweaty propaganda.
(Score: 4, Informative) by aristarchus on Monday February 26 2018, @08:41PM
Geats, you damned traitorous Frisian!
http://ebeowulf.uky.edu/ebeo4.0/CD/main.html [uky.edu]
(Score: 3, Touché) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday February 26 2018, @08:31PM (7 children)
Because, Janrinok, the lameness filter would stop his post if he said "figures, a bunch of sandn*ggers getting up to their usual shit again," with a side of "hahahaha told you fuckin' stupid libtards."
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @08:35PM
Honestly, I can't tell.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @08:42PM
And the fuck tards wonder why they got called deplorables.
CAUSE YOU'RE AMERICA'S ISIS CONSERVATIVE DICKBAG!!! Literally the people most likely to kill me for my beliefs and not someone from the Middle East. /rant
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @02:55AM (4 children)
Ahhh, so that's the trick. It's alright to call them "migrants", but we have to leave out the sand niggers, brown skins, Muslim, and any other identifiers that might help us to figure out who the hell is raping and killing Swedes. Multiculturalism is good, but we may not identify which cultures contribute to multiculturalism. Got it. The alt-right will thank you for establishing the proper rules for discussing lawless motherfuckers who intend to destroy a nation.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday February 27 2018, @03:15AM (2 children)
There's not a hell of a lot of difference between the two groups, you know. That's the irony: the alt-right aren't as a rule opposed to theocracy, they just want it to be THEIR version of Abrahamic theocracy, not those brown peoples' version.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @09:53AM (1 child)
Could we just drop all RWNJs of any color onto some faraway island and let them duke their hatred out there?
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday February 27 2018, @08:25PM
Would heaven it were possible.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @04:31PM
I feel like the Russian trolls are here trying to shift the narrative on their favor by sheer spam.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @04:07AM
> TFS doesn't say that this is racial crime, but that it is gang related. During editing, I changed the title in the submission
That is not right. Re-read the original submission's title [soylentnews.org]. The blame was clearly apportioned to a violent, supremecist political movement that has taken hold no mention of immigrants or race was made or implied because islam is not a race [thereligionofpeace.com] nor are all immigrants moslem settlers or colonist.s
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 28 2018, @09:49AM (3 children)
Anti-rape pants, janrinok, anti-rape pants. Need we say more?
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Wednesday February 28 2018, @10:09AM (2 children)
Of course I am anti rape - aren't you? However, if that is not what you were saying, could you try writing it in a more adult style and I will try to understand the point you are making.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 28 2018, @10:44AM (1 child)
Subtle references never work with janrinok! Swedish migrant massacre in Bowling Green! The American Carnage! Do you not recall, some not too long ago, our eds fed us a fine article on how anti-rape pants were all the rage in places now infested with over-sexed refugees? And in places frequented by the alt-right? Do you not recall? Maybe I dreamed it. One day on SoylentNews just seems to blend into the next, unless, of course, there is a refreshing, and not at all clickbaity, aristarchus submission!
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Wednesday February 28 2018, @12:25PM
(Score: 3, Informative) by fritsd on Monday February 26 2018, @08:51PM (2 children)
The article says:
The Sverigedemokraterna [wikipedia.org] are not in government (yet?). So, no, you can only say that the Sverigedemokraterna political party is full of racists now.
And I don't think that that is news. What else are Neo-Nazis going to vote for and become member of, in the Swedish political spectrum [blogspot.se]??
(the blue blåsippa flower at the top means SD).
Mind you, I don't know if you can say that the SD are Neo-Nazis. Probably not.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @10:34PM
SD are most certainly not neo-nazis, nor any other kind of nazis. When the party was founded there were people from the scene involved which has led to this stamp being applied by opponents. Those opponents tend to ignore the fact that the Social Democratic party actually sympathised with the nazis in WWII, that this party was leading in founding a racial-biological research lab to try to keep Sweden "racially clean", that the newspaper "Aftonbladet" supported the nazis during the war and many more of such salacious details.
If you want to place the Sweden Democrats in the traditional left-right scale they end up somewhere to the left of the middle related to their economic and most of their social policies, to the right of the middle where it concerns migration issues. Their political program is in large lines comparable to that of the Social Democratic party in the 50's and 60's in that they want to (re)build a welfare state based on high taxation where the benefits go to Swedish citizens. This last part, their insistence on Swedish taxpayers' money primarily being used to provide services to Swedish citizens is what separates them from other high-taxation parties like the Social Democrats, Communists (they call themselves "Vänsterpartiet" since the demise of the Soviet Union, their policies however have not changed markedly since so it is logical to keep on using their old moniker when referring to them), Greens, 'Center' and 'Liberals' (both 'Liberalerna' as well as 'nya Moderaterna' can be included here).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @04:34AM
> Mind you, I don't know if you can say that the SD are Neo-Nazis. Probably not.
No. They are just racist as hell. They are not Nazis because the Nazis were national socialists and the SD are very devoutly neoliberal, taking Thatcherism up a few notches.
They are now one of the major parties in size because they are the sole party to address Islam in any meaningful way. However, they are not allowed to go after Islam directly. Since it is absolutely forbidden in Sweden to publicly criticize or even question Islam, on pain of fines and jail, they go after «immigrants» in general because that is actually allowed. It's a vile move but allowed so they do it and it is just bait to get people to sign on to their extreme neoliberalism.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @10:33PM
oh heaven's no, it's "gang violence". not "immigrant violence".
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @12:16AM (1 child)
Ah, the Liberal Nirvana (the Scandinavian countries) has caught alight has it? Toughen up and do the right thing (pun intended).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 28 2018, @03:53AM
Sweden has been far right in its economic and social policies since the 1990s. Get your talking points straight you alt-right troll.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @08:04PM (40 children)
It seems like that's an important question.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by janrinok on Monday February 26 2018, @08:10PM (37 children)
Why? It is totally irrelevant to the story, which is about the fact that some doubt the police's ability to cope with the high level of crime and might need reinforcing with Military Aid to the Civil Power (MACP). MACP is something that many countries consider including the US and most of Europe. For example, after any terrorist attack the military is often put on the streets to supplement the police force. Why should the fact that Sweden is considering the same mean we have to know who is in the gangs?
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @08:15PM (6 children)
That makes a pretty big difference on tolerance of the use of military force against the peoples involved.
If many of them are illegal immigrants then they would fall into either of the first two groups, which while still maybe frowned upon depending on laws in Sweden, probably would be endorsed by the people. The latter however should be heavily condemned by everyone, since it sets a bad precedent towards using the military against civilians in other circumstances, like protest against government overreach, or during riots when actual citizens voices are no longer being heard.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @08:48PM (3 children)
I would condemn it, unfortunately you now have criminal gangs using hand grenades [wikipedia.org] (a weapon of war). The Swedish police cannot deal with this so the government need to secure their borders* and seek international approval and oversight before deploying troops. Unfortunately, there's no way to stop the violence from escalating.
* The weapons are being imported from the Balkans but yes against more people exhibiting the same behaviour too.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @10:14PM (2 children)
Says the cowardly Anonymous Coward racist twit, who is formenting violence as hard as he can get it.
(Score: 2) by Mykl on Tuesday February 27 2018, @01:58AM (1 child)
AC calls out AC for being AC.
I re-read GP's post very carefully after your accusation. They make the point that these weapons are coming in from outside of the country (the Balkans in particular), but make no claim about the racial makeup of the gangs who are buying the weapons. Their statement about closing the borders seems, to me, to be about stopping the flow of weapons rather than people. On the face of it, there is no evidence of racism in the post (perhaps there is a bit of gang-ism).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 28 2018, @10:04AM
The AC said nothing about race, just about the other AC saying the violence was inevitable, which means, oh third AC (or Mkyl), we will just have to say it is all your fault when they come and kill all the men, the women, the children, the dogs and cats, the hamsters (Remember Pebbles!! [mercurynews.com]), the goldfish, and the cockroaches with their "hyperbaric weapons systems" which they will claim are legal under the laws of war, but it will not make any difference for you, oh intervening AC! All will die! None will be Spared! Vikings do not take yougurt! [youtube.com] It's not yogurt! In the face!
(Score: 3, Informative) by bob_super on Monday February 26 2018, @09:33PM (1 child)
The Swedes are presented with a situation that they hope to be temporary, so they use a resource that's available to deal with it.
European countries don't have gun-toting cops at every street corner. They also don't have gung-ho brainwashed military nutjobs (exceptions happen) who only know their weapon as a way to handle problems.
So you put the People serving in the military, and already on the payroll, in the street to protect the People and dissuade or stop some bad guys.
That is not your "tolerance of the use of military force" threat. It's more humans on the ground assisting the cops.
In a similar vein, when some nutjob attacked a military group patrolling in a Paris airport, that was treated as a police matter, and handled by civilian procedures and justice system.
But you're apparently one of those many paranoids who will never believe that the people are not just always on the cusp of being oppressed by big bad government.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @02:49AM
So the police in the UK aren’t carrying guns now? Educate yourself.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @08:21PM (14 children)
See Posse Comitatus Act [wikipedia.org]
American governance is extremely leery of the Federal Government; after all, the American Revolution was fought to free the colonies from a far-off, centralized military power that had little respect for representing citizens.
(Score: 3, Informative) by janrinok on Monday February 26 2018, @08:49PM (4 children)
So in the US the National Guard are not used to help during regional disasters? That is MACP, it doesn't seem to be too outlawed there. Any time that military personnel are used at the behest of local or regional government in any task other than war fighting, it is usually under MACP. I suspect if you look closely you will see that it happens quite often in the US.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @08:54PM (1 child)
Please, read the whole linked article for a pretty good picture.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Wednesday February 28 2018, @05:47AM
One political party in Sweden has 'linked public concern' with the issue with immigration. The populist party are anti-immigration, and so they will try to link any of Sweden's problems to immigration whenever they can, It does not make it so. There is no proven correlation between these particular crimes and the immigrants, although there are lots of other crimes that can be easily and justifiably linked to them. The problems that are causing concern are "drugs, protection rackets and prostitution", all of which existed before the current influx of immigrants.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by frojack on Monday February 26 2018, @09:09PM (1 child)
In spite of the name, the National guard is under State Government control when deployed as a police force in the US.
Perhaps that's a distinction with out a difference in your mind.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Tuesday February 27 2018, @01:52AM
Actually. I think that, in this case, it is a distinction without a difference.
IIUC, Sweden does *not* have a federal system like the US. As such, any National Guard analog in Sweden would have to be controlled by a central entity, since there is no Federal/state government separation in Sweden, as there is in the US.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Monday February 26 2018, @08:53PM (4 children)
Wrong. America routinely use military servicepeople in a police capacity. If you'd like to see it today, go take a trip to New York City. You'll most likely see armed troops in BDUs in the Port Authority Bus Terminal and in the weird shopping mall next to the 9/11 memorial and Freedom Tower.
The Posse Comitatus Act doesn't apply, because these troops are National Guard troops ordered by the state governor. But being state-deployed instead of federally doesn't somehow make them not military troops.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @08:58PM (3 children)
Not only are the National Guard units of a State sourced from citizens of that State, but also the Governor of the State is the one who deploys and ultimately commands them.
It's not that the military is helping the States via the National Guard, but rather that the States are helping the military via the National Guard—that's why the National Guard units are considered to be part of the the "reserve components" of the military.
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Monday February 26 2018, @09:03PM (2 children)
Yes, the Governor commands them.... and then allows direct Federal control of them when FEMA assumes command of a situation under Title 32, again at the Governor's request. Not to mention Defense Support of Civilian Activities, where Federal troops may provide support roles as well. https://training.fema.gov/emiweb/is/is75/student%20manual/student%20manual.pdf [fema.gov]
This sig for rent.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @09:05PM (1 child)
I'm not sure what your point is.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Wednesday February 28 2018, @10:46AM
I am not sure there is a point.
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Monday February 26 2018, @08:59PM (1 child)
Which doesn't apply at all to the National Guard in supporting state law enforcement at the Governor's request. It is usually only common to have units actually on patrol during natural disasters; usually the support they provide either provides intelligence or relieves sworn law enforcement of non-enforcement duties so they can focus on enforcement.
And five minutes of research shows that half of Sweden's military is a "home guard" which is not unlike the Guard and Reserve - though not necessarily in command and control.
As for our country.... Wait for another school shooting or two - eventually we'll have National Guard troops in our schools I'm sure.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @09:09PM
Your comment and the necessary reply have both already appeared in this thread. Your comment is redundant.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Monday February 26 2018, @10:58PM (1 child)
Which of course in no way applies here, because Sweden isn't the USA.
That said, I'm not convinced the US response to bad guys with military firepower has been much better. If your problem is "criminal gang with enough weaponry to outgun your police forces", which seems like the least-bad choice:
A. Use your military when necessary to fight these gangs?
B. Turn your cops into military-like units (SWAT, the cops with tanks and APCs, etc)?
C. Allow gangs with sufficient firepower to function basically unmolested by the authorities?
I'm pretty sure option C isn't what anybody wants. Option A, while bad, at least offers the possibility that the army will come in, do a specific job, and head back to base, and the bureaucratic negotiating involved each time they do that means they won't be called in unless they really are needed. Option B, by contrast, means those souped-up cops are there to stay, and if they don't have anything to do they'll find something to do.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @01:01AM
Gordon Lightfoot's "Black Day in July", about the Detroit riots and imposition of martial law:
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @08:26PM (1 child)
A nation state does not define a people's values; rather, a people's values define a nation state.
When you change the people, you change the nation state.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @08:35PM
Go soak yer head, it's looking a bit dry and puffy.
(Score: 2, Flamebait) by frojack on Monday February 26 2018, @09:25PM (6 children)
Not at all irrelevant!
Sweden went from a peaceful civil society of very few local sub cultures to a dangerous country full of unemployable middle eastern immagrents invited in by their government over the objections of the citizens. What an astounding turnabout in just three or four years.
It is an arrestable offense to denegrate the refugees. So now they call them gangs.
The country feels so imperiled it contemplates calling out the army.
And you think you can hand wave it away as irrelevant?
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Monday February 26 2018, @10:01PM (5 children)
'Sweden has had gang problems since the '90s' [thelocal.se]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @10:42PM (1 child)
People used to think that a $5 trillion national debt was a serious problem in the 1990s; now, the national U.S. debt is $20 trillion—the 90s don't look so bad...
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday February 26 2018, @10:54PM
Of course they are comparable, having the same nature (as opposed to apples to oranges).
If you have something to say otherwise, by all means table it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @04:22AM (2 children)
> 'Sweden has had gang problems since the '90s'
Scratch the surface and you will find that is when you see moslem settlers [thereligionofpeace.com] establlishing territories inside the borders of Sweden. Frojack is right about how Sweden has changed but is only commenting on the second tipping point not the first. Already those areas were dangerous by the turn of the century but they were fewer in number and you could at least visit them during the day without being in a very large group.
Even the post office which has delivered to every address in the nation since the the 17th century has been forced to stop delivering inside the moslem colonies. It is just too dangerous for both staff and equipment.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @04:36PM (1 child)
Trolly troll troll go away
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 28 2018, @09:58AM
Just because the facts [soylentnews.org] rub you [jewishmag.com] the wrong way does not mean that everyone else is trolling.
http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index.php/item.532/paramedics-in-sweden-now-demands-military-equipment.html [speisa.com]
(Score: 2) by unauthorized on Monday February 26 2018, @09:45PM
Because maybe, just maybe there are certain policies which lead to the rise of crime that, if addressed, will reverse the trend of one of the formerly most peaceful societies in the world now considers military interventions to deal with rampant criminality.
You know, treating the disease rather than treating the symptoms and ignoring the underlying causes which make it progress in the first place.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @10:36PM (3 children)
because you goofy bastard. people are sick of the covering up of the goddamn rapes and shit these stupid monkeys are committing. why are you running interference for propagandists who enable rapists?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @10:55PM (2 children)
Infowars devotee?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @01:03AM (1 child)
I have been putting something in their drinking water, and directing chem-trails over their general position for two weeks now. It is rewarding to see the results of your work, especially when you work for the government.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @02:03AM
Ya I bet! Stopping cavities is def good work, and those contrails do stop some of the solar rays from warming the earth too far. I applaud you sir for fighting the good fight.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @03:03AM
Seriously? Really, seriously? Here, you have the opportunity to identify where the crime wave arises, and who the perpetrators are - but you say that it is irrelevant? And, you probably insist that everyone else keep their eyes wide shut. Immigrants/invaders from shithole countries are pretty easy to identify.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Monday February 26 2018, @08:20PM
Probably some sort of Viking. The good news for Sweden is that the won't need to upgrade their Caroleans to Great War Infantry because the "march" promotion enables them to heal each turn.
To be fair, Sweden has researched Artillery so these barbarians shouldn't be much of a problem.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @04:46AM
> Who are in these gangs? It seems like that's an important question.
The press in different European countries use different euphemisms. In France it is "youths" and in Denmark it is "underprivileged" and in Sweden it is "gangs" and you get the idea. They all refer to islam. There is even an islamist party [jihadwatch.org] in Swedish politics. It is just not allowed to name islam. Hence the code word "gang" being used awkwardly.
Even the Feminist Initiative party is trying to exploit the situation by blaming all men, each and every one, instead of islam for the rapes and asaults beause it helps their attempts at power even if at the expense of their nation.