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posted by martyb on Friday March 02 2018, @10:29PM   Printer-friendly
from the so-now-our-cars-and-buildings-will-all-cost-more dept.

US steel and aluminium imports face big tariffs, Trump says

President Donald Trump has said he will sign off on steep tariffs on steel and aluminium imports next week, hitting producers like Canada and China.

Flanked by US metals executives at the White House, he said a 25% tariff would be slapped on steel products, and a 10% tariff would be imposed on aluminium.

Mr Trump tweeted that the US was suffering from "unfair trade".

The US imports four times more steel than it exports, and is reliant on steel from more than 100 nations.

Related: U.S. Quintuples Taxes on Chinese Cold-Rolled Flat Steel
China to Cut Steel and Coal Production
Trump Administration Finalizes 300% Import Tariff on Bombardier Jets From Canada
US Government Puts Tariffs on Imported Solar Cells, Solar Modules, and Washing Machines


Original Submission

Related Stories

U.S. Quintuples Taxes on Chinese Cold-Rolled Flat Steel 55 comments

The U.S. Commerce Department has massively increased the taxes on a particular kind of imported Chinese steel. U.S. steelmakers are separately asking the International Trade Commission to ban all Chinese steel imports:

The US has raised its import duties on Chinese steelmakers by more than five-fold after accusing them of selling their products below market prices. The taxes specifically apply to Chinese-made cold-rolled flat steel, which is used in car manufacturing, shipping containers and construction.

The US Commerce Department ruling comes amid heightened trade tensions between the two sides over several products, including chicken parts. Steel is an especially sensitive issue. US and European steel producers claim China is distorting the global market and undercutting them by dumping its excess supply abroad.


Original Submission

China to Cut Steel and Coal Production 32 comments

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-parliament-steel-coal-idUSKBN16C00H

China will cut steel capacity by 50 million tonnes and coal output by more than 150 million tonnes this year, its top economic planner said on Sunday as the world's No. 2 economy deepens efforts to tackle pollution and curb excess supply. In a work report at the opening of the annual meeting of parliament, the National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC) said it would shut or stop construction of coal-fired power plants with capacity of more than 50 million kilowatts.

The pledges are part of Beijing's years-long push to reduce the share of coal in its energy mix to cut pollution that has choked northern cities and to meet climate-change goals while streamlining unwieldy and over-supplied smoke-stack industries such as steel. Speaking at the opening of parliament on Sunday, Premier Li Keqiang reiterated the government's plan to ramp up monitoring of heavy industry and crack down on companies and officials that violate air quality rules. "Officials who do a poor job in enforcing the law, knowingly allow environmental violations, or respond inadequately to worsening air quality will be held accountable," he said. "We will make our skies blue again."

Related: U.S. Quintuples Taxes on Chinese Cold-Rolled Flat Steel
China Is Grappling With Hidden Unemployment
China's Smoggiest City Closes Schools Amid Public Anger
China: Solar Installations Up 82 Percent in 2016; Coal Usage Down Again


Original Submission

Trump Administration Finalizes 300% Import Tariff on Bombardier Jets From Canada 36 comments

The Trump administration has imposed a 300% tariff on the import of Bombardier CSeries jet airliners. Airbus and Bombardier recently announced a partnership to build the planes in Mobile, Alabama that would sidestep the tariff:

The Trump administration on Wednesday recommended steep anti-subsidy duties on Bombardier Inc's CSeries jets, setting up the next round of a fierce international trade dispute between the United States and Canada. The U.S. Commerce Department announcement to impose duties of nearly 300 percent stems from a complaint by Boeing Co that Bombardier had been unfairly and illegally subsidized by the Canadian government, allowing the planemaker to dump its newest jetliner in the U.S. market below cost.

"Today's decision validates Boeing's complaints regarding Bombardier's pricing in the United States, pricing that has harmed our workforce and U.S. industry," Boeing said in a statement on the decision, which was generally expected within the aerospace industry.

Delta Air Lines, the second largest U.S. carrier by passenger traffic, has an order for 75 of the 100-to-150 seat CSeries jets. The aircraft starts at $79.5 million, according to list prices, or some $5.9 billion for the total order, but carriers typically receive steep discounts. If imposed, the duties would more than triple the cost of a CSeries aircraft sold in the United States, based on Boeing's assertion that Delta received the planes for $20 million each, well below an estimated cost of $33 million and what Bombardier charges in Canada.

Bombardier criticized the U.S. decision as out of touch, citing the Canadian planemaker's plan to team up with European Airbus to launch assembly of the CSeries from a production line in Mobile, Alabama, making it a domestic product for U.S. buyers.

Also at The Hill and CNBC.

Update: Boeing in talks with Embraer; Brazil backs jetliner alliance


Original Submission

US Government Puts Tariffs on Imported Solar Cells, Solar Modules, and Washing Machines 63 comments

Trump administration imposes tariffs on imported solar cells and modules at 30% and certain washing machines up to 50%:

This new determination sets tariffs on imported solar cells and modules at 30 percent with a gradual decrease of that tariff over the subsequent four years. In years two, three, and four, the tariff will be imposed at 25 percent, 20 percent, and 15 percent, respectively, of the value of the import. The first 2.5 gigawatts of imported solar cells imported are exempt from the tariff (but it seems that a similar provision was not made for solar modules). Though the executive branch has broad authority to impose whatever tariff it wants after the ITC finds that an industry has been harmed by imports, this tariff decision closely matches the middle-ground recommendation made by two of the four-person ITC's commissioners. Those commissioners recommended a 30-percent tariff on modules and a 30-percent tariff on imported solar cells in excess of 1GW, with declining rates after the first year.

Whirlpool shares rise after Trump tariff on washing machine imports

The new tax is expected to hit Trump's desk on Tuesday. The administration is imposing 20% tariffs on the first 1.2 million machines imported each year, and 50% on those after that. There will also be a 50% tariff on washing machine parts.

Naturally South Korea and China are upset and plan to argue their case at the WTO. From the articles I read this morning there should be a boost to US manufacturing but the gains may all be offset by the losses with people not wanting to pay more for solar. I think regardless of price people will do solar for solar's sake, but there is sure to be some impact on sales and installation jobs.

Guess I should have bought that 30% off washing machine at the Sears going out of business sale.


Original Submission

Trump Administration Plans to Impose $50-60 Billion of Tariffs on Chinese Goods 77 comments

President Trump has signed a presidential memorandum directing the U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer to draw up a list of Chinese products on which tariffs could be imposed. The list will be made public in 15 days, and tariffs will take effect after a 60-day comment period:

The US plans to impose tariffs on up to $60bn (£42.5bn) in Chinese goods and limit the country's investment in the US in retaliation for years of alleged intellectual property theft.

The White House said the actions were necessary to counter unfair competition from China's state-led economy. It said years of talks had failed to produce change. China said it was ready to retaliate with "necessary measures". Beijing also said it would "fight to the end" in any trade war with the US.

US stock markets closed lower on Thursday, as investors responded to the announcement. [...] The White House said it has a list of more than 1,000 products that could be targeted by tariffs of 25%. Businesses will have the opportunity to comment before the final list goes into effect.

Reuters portrays the action as "far removed from threats that could have ignited a global trade war". Bloomberg notes that many industry trade groups and companies are opposing the tariffs.

Also at NPR and The Hill.

Related: US Government Puts Tariffs on Imported Solar Cells, Solar Modules, and Washing Machines
Major US Solar Company Blames Job Cuts On Trump's Solar Import Tariff
U.S. Steel and Aluminum Imports to Face New Tariffs


Original Submission

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  • (Score: 1) by Revek on Friday March 02 2018, @10:32PM (18 children)

    by Revek (5022) on Friday March 02 2018, @10:32PM (#646665)

    A short term gain but a long term loss. The immediate problem will be high cost of these metals. There is not enough production capacity to take up the slack. But hey he did something.

    --
    This page was generated by a Swarm of Roaming Elephants
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @10:38PM (7 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @10:38PM (#646669)

      The Japs lied about the quality of their steel, anyway.

      • (Score: 5, Funny) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:29AM (2 children)

        by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:29AM (#646726) Homepage

        America will destroy any nation that presents a threat to its dominance, including that of its steel -- which is why we have been bombing the shit out of Damascus lately.

        • (Score: 2) by number11 on Saturday March 03 2018, @01:31AM (1 child)

          by number11 (1170) Subscriber Badge on Saturday March 03 2018, @01:31AM (#646756)

          America will destroy any nation that presents a threat to its dominance, including that of its steel -- which is why we have been bombing the shit out of Damascus lately.

          Ah yes, Damascus steel. The wrath of Washington may fall on the upstarts, as soon as in the next 400 years!

          • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @02:10AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @02:10AM (#646769)

            Ah yes, Damascus steel.

            The really interesting thing, Damascus steel is actually from India.

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday March 03 2018, @02:40AM (2 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday March 03 2018, @02:40AM (#646780) Journal

        Maybe so - decades ago. When I was young, "Made in Japan" meant "cheap", in most cases. Today - not so much. Today, it's China that has a poorly trained, and inexperienced workforce. Their stuff IS cheap junk - today. In thirty years, that will change. Meanwhile - we are slipping behind. Our skilled workforce has dissolved, at least in part. Our work ethic is dissolving fast.

        We chose not to compete, and soon, we'll be unable to compete.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @04:19AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @04:19AM (#646827)

          Google it.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @09:31AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @09:31AM (#646968)

            Can't.

            Google is filtering results for that.

      • (Score: 2) by driverless on Sunday March 04 2018, @01:43PM

        by driverless (4770) on Sunday March 04 2018, @01:43PM (#647612)

        In any case it's OK for Alu, the ban onlt affects imports of aluminum, but not aluminium.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Virindi on Friday March 02 2018, @10:45PM (8 children)

      by Virindi (3484) on Friday March 02 2018, @10:45PM (#646675)

      But don't forget the reason there is not sufficient capacity now: it is all moved to China because domestic producers cannot compete with producers who pay employees nothing, have extremely unsafe working conditions, ignore environmental controls (and dump tons of garbage into the atmosphere), and have subsidized export shipping (and many such producers are flat out government owned so they can even operate at a loss if needed to drive competitors out of business).

      It is hardly a "free market", every rule is stacked against domestic producers. That they all went under is only natural.

      If you believe there should be health and safety rules, environmental rules, etc, then it is almost required that you also support leveling the playing field for those who do not have such rules. Otherwise it is just a NIBY style attitude, let the workers die and environment be destroyed somewhere else, it's not here so it's not my problem!

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by HiThere on Friday March 02 2018, @11:04PM (4 children)

        by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Friday March 02 2018, @11:04PM (#646684) Journal

        Yes. If I trusted this government, then I'd support the tariff. But I don't. I suspect it is designed to expire quickly enough that it would not be sensible to build a new steel factor in the US. It may not be high enough to make that sensible anyway, but that's a tougher call.

        That said, it's probably more sensible than subsidizing industries. So among the things Trump has done, this doesn't directly count against him in my book, because I'm not certain that it's scheduled to quickly expire. And because so many details about the implementation are uncertain. But the praise couldn't get much fainter.

        --
        Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Virindi on Friday March 02 2018, @11:11PM (3 children)

          by Virindi (3484) on Friday March 02 2018, @11:11PM (#646689)

          This brings up a good point: letting the President unilaterally declare tariffs is very stupid.

          Business needs to be able to plan, and if the playing field changes as the wind blows and rules are only valid until the next person completely reverses them, everyone is screwed. That's a recipe for a less vibrant market, and victory for the state subsidized producers elsewhere who can weather storms with the help of government coffers.

          • (Score: 2, Funny) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday March 03 2018, @01:54AM (2 children)

            by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Saturday March 03 2018, @01:54AM (#646765) Homepage

            Protectionism emerged from the great depression. It was a pretty sane strategy until we were drawn into WWII by Stan Lee. Stan, aka Stanley Martin Lieber, a known womanizer, drew America into WWII to fight for his own interests by turning a wimpy but suggestable American loser into the greatest Nazi-killing frisbee-thrower who ever lived.

            You can thank the proud Blacks of Wakanda for producing the chemical-makeup-undisclosed alloy called "vibranium" used to make Cap's legendary frisbee. African blacks enabled American expansionism, it's all their fault!

            • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday March 03 2018, @05:22AM (1 child)

              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday March 03 2018, @05:22AM (#646865) Journal

              The Vibranium hype isn't all it's cracked up to be. Stupid thing seems to eat an entire pack of AA batteries a week...

              --
              I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
              • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @05:45AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @05:45AM (#646875)

                The Vibranium hype isn't all it's cracked up to be. Stupid thing seems to eat an entire pack of AA batteries a week...

                You're holding it wrong.

      • (Score: 2) by dry on Saturday March 03 2018, @03:37AM

        by dry (223) on Saturday March 03 2018, @03:37AM (#646805) Journal

        Well the USA gets 16% of its steel from Canada and we're also one of America's main exports destination for that finished steel. Going to be lots of unemployed people on both sides of the border and with Trump's lack of understanding of trade between us, things are going to get worse employment wise as quite a few States depend on trade with Canada and most of these tariffs seem not to be thought out. Things like jacking up the prices of houses due to illegal tariffs on soft wood, solar tariffs that last just long enough to fuck up American (and Canadian) industries. Steel tariffs that China can easily ride out while increasing the prices of a lot of stuff.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:23AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:23AM (#646915)

        (and dump[s] tons of garbage into [rivers that provide drinking water])

        Today's headline:
        Trump Administration Guts Safeguards for Nation's No. 2 Toxic Pollution Threat [coal ash] [earthjustice.org]

        -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

      • (Score: 1) by angelosphere on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:25PM

        by angelosphere (5088) on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:25PM (#647253)

        You are an idiot.
        Where did China get its steel manufacturing plants from?
        They bought old plants from all over the world. Especially Germany, and I'm sure many from the US, too.
        You problems are all home made: it is YOU who don't want to pay a wage a man, a family can live from
        It is you, who sold your steel plant to China and now you are wondering about the boomerang coming back?
        How retarded are you? Of you had kept your plants and would for fuck sake change your society away from 'the cheapest is the best' you would not feel the need to elect people like Trump.
        What is he going to do anyway?

        The world has changed ... since 50 years or more ... you can only bully around countries like Cuba and Venezuela, instead just leaving them in peace and let it up to their own responsibility how they evolve.

        If there are tariffs on european products in the US, the only US products I will buy in future are Macs ...

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @11:43PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @11:43PM (#646708)

      So he is doing the same thing the previous 5 presidents have done?

      If you do not see negotiation and see evil perhaps you should not speak?

  • (Score: 2) by takyon on Friday March 02 2018, @10:41PM (6 children)

    by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Friday March 02 2018, @10:41PM (#646672) Journal
    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @11:11PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @11:11PM (#646688)

      Junker is drunk again. [theguardian.com] Literally [twitter.com]

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @11:16PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @11:16PM (#646692)

      There can be a war even if your side isn't doing any fighting. We call this "losing" or "surrender".

      The trade war started about the time Nixon decided that Red China was the real China, kissing Mao's ass and telling Taiwan they weren't a country. It got much worse when we were dumb enough to grant China the trade status of Most Favored Nation, and when we let them dishonestly join the World Trade Organization.

      We've been like pacifists who agreed to a duel. We're getting slaughtered. Refusal to fight will not make the fighting stop.

      • (Score: 2, Disagree) by c0lo on Friday March 02 2018, @11:25PM

        by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Friday March 02 2018, @11:25PM (#646697) Journal

        Refusal to fight will not make the fighting stop.

        From the "When shooting yourself in the foot is fighting" saga.

        --
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @11:54PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @11:54PM (#646715)

      Too bad our bluejeans are all made in mexico and china these days. They packed up the factories long ago and moved them there. I have seen people working on machines that were built in the US and shipped from North Carolina jean factories to mexico. It is an empty gesture. Much like dick sporting goods banning the ar-15 again (like they did in 2012).

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @01:33AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @01:33AM (#646758)

      https://www.wsj.com/articles/obama-front-runs-trump-on-china-1463677249 [wsj.com]

      yep totally begun they have. /sarc

      This shit has been going on for longer than any of us have been alive. In fact the US gov used to sustain itself on tarrifs.

  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday March 02 2018, @10:44PM (22 children)

    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Friday March 02 2018, @10:44PM (#646674) Journal

    The only reason to put up a tariff is if you can produce roughly the same product at roughly the same price point domestically. If you can't, all that happens when you put up tariffs is you end up starving domestic industries that relied on those imports.

    There is a time and place for tariffs. Hitting an ally (Canada) is not one of them.

    To me, this smells like Trump has no idea about the consequences of any of this and is attempting to use this as a type of soft nuke, an economic neutron bomb that destroys assets and leaves people standing (and hungry). I'm not even sure he's put that much thought into it, honestly. What a mess...

    --
    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Virindi on Friday March 02 2018, @10:48PM (12 children)

      by Virindi (3484) on Friday March 02 2018, @10:48PM (#646676)

      Yes, tariffs on Canada make no sense at all.

      As in my post above, the best reason for tariffs is to make up for the increased cost of complying with safety and environmental rules......but Canada has similar ones to us. So putting a tariff on Canada is just blind protectionism.

      The tariff should only be on countries which employ slave labor, pollute like crazy, or have a government heavily paying off the industry.

      I don't know if Canadian steel is subsidized, it may be. If so it would be fair to put a tariff on it, but much less than China since Canada does still have safety and environmental standards.

      • (Score: 4, Informative) by fritsd on Friday March 02 2018, @10:53PM (5 children)

        by fritsd (4586) on Friday March 02 2018, @10:53PM (#646678) Journal

        <tinfoil_hat>
        Maybe one of Trump's buddies, another "man of the people" [theguardian.com], asked him to shake the stock market up a bit.
        </tinfoil_hat>

        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by fyngyrz on Friday March 02 2018, @11:54PM (4 children)

          by fyngyrz (6567) on Friday March 02 2018, @11:54PM (#646713) Journal

          <tinfoil_hat>

          Not a lot of tin there, really:

          1. Announce tariff X
          2. Stock prices drop in very predictable fashion
          3. Buy stock
          4. Cancel tariff plans (short term) or let tariff expire (long term)
          5. Significant monetary gain
          6. Favor returned later, indirectly and entirely under the radar
          7. Profit!
          • (Score: 4, Informative) by fyngyrz on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:11AM (3 children)

            by fyngyrz (6567) on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:11AM (#646722) Journal

            Also, this. [theguardian.com]

            "Ex-Trump adviser sold $31m in shares days before president announced steel tariffs"

            Purely a coincidence, I'm sure. [cough]

            • (Score: 3, Interesting) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:54AM (2 children)

              by GreatAuntAnesthesia (3275) on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:54AM (#646735) Journal

              Oh no, there couldn't possibly be any insider trading going on. That's just quality paranoia. Right buzz? [soylentnews.org]

              • (Score: 2) by ilPapa on Saturday March 03 2018, @01:13AM (1 child)

                by ilPapa (2366) on Saturday March 03 2018, @01:13AM (#646751) Journal

                Oh no, there couldn't possibly be any insider trading going on.

                https://youtu.be/SjbPi00k_ME [youtu.be]

                --
                You are still welcome on my lawn.
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @02:21PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @02:21PM (#647052)

                  Add into this that American credit card debt is going up and up.
                  Buying cheap foreign stuff and taking a loan out for it surely can’t help trade imbalances. Though the board of Walmart (among others) probably loves it while the charade lasts.
                  Be glad you have your social programs and good Medicare to help you in your broke old age.

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by bob_super on Friday March 02 2018, @11:09PM (4 children)

        by bob_super (1357) on Friday March 02 2018, @11:09PM (#646685)

        If you do that, I'll start my own steel plant in Canada and undermine the US manufacturers with my cheap cheap prices.
        All I need is a hangar where Chinese steel comes in one door, and one guy who stamps "Assembled in Canada" stickers before it reaches the opposite door.
        I'm looking for Cirque Du Soleil acrobats, so they can do it without stopping the trucks or containers.

        • (Score: 2) by Virindi on Friday March 02 2018, @11:13PM (1 child)

          by Virindi (3484) on Friday March 02 2018, @11:13PM (#646691)

          One would think that countries which have costly regulations on industry, would see the benefit of cooperation in this regard.

          Too bad letting people suffer on the other side of the world lines so many pockets.

          • (Score: 0, Redundant) by khallow on Saturday March 03 2018, @03:45AM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday March 03 2018, @03:45AM (#646811) Journal

            Too bad letting people suffer on the other side of the world lines so many pockets.

            No honor among thieves. And suffering is relative. Those people would suffer anyway. This way they're getting paid more for their suffering.

        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday March 03 2018, @02:57AM (1 child)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday March 03 2018, @02:57AM (#646791) Journal

          I've seen almost that exact thing, in practice. Take a load of Wisconsin cheese to California, unload it onto a dock with a conveyor belt. Workers along that belt take the 5 pound blocks of cheese out of the boxes, then put them into new boxes. The new boxes assert the cheese to be genuine California cheese. Pallets of cheese were unloaded, broken down, and put on the processing line, repacked, then loaded onto trucks waiting on the other end of the line. Individual blocks of cheese may be inside of the repackaging facility for an hour or less. The average was almost certainly less than three hours.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:42AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:42AM (#646921)

            I've seen almost that exact thing,

            Yeah, we know, Runaway. Were you wearing an onion on your belt, as was the fashion at the time?

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by dw861 on Saturday March 03 2018, @03:20AM

        by dw861 (1561) Subscriber Badge on Saturday March 03 2018, @03:20AM (#646798) Journal

        To put a tariff on Canadian steel and aluminium is insane. Yes, Canada is the number one supplier of both aluminium and steel to the US.

        Canada also buys a fantastic amount of American-produced steel, resulting in a $2 Billion surplus in steel trade for the USA.

        Some of that "Canadian" aluminium is produced in Canada by the American company Alcoa.

        There used to be a common North American market in these commodities, and a shared auto sector. Perhaps this is the beginning of the end for NAFTA after all.

        http://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/canada-to-fire-back-if-hit-with-u-s-steel-and-aluminum-tariffs [financialpost.com]

    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday March 02 2018, @10:58PM (4 children)

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Friday March 02 2018, @10:58PM (#646680) Journal

      Number of jobs in steel and aluminium - under 300k in 1990, at about 130k now.
      Number of jobs in manufacturing that uses steel and aluminium (and who will pay more on their input) - over 4M today, about the same level in 1990.

      Source [bloomberg.com] citing U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

      Last time it happened (same source):

      Steel tariffs work! That is, when President George W. Bush levied tariffs of 8 percent to 30 percent on steel imports in March 2002, it did seem to have a detectable positive impact on steel industry employment.
      For about a year after the tariff was imposed, steel industry employment stopped falling. Yay! Then the decline resumed amid a brewing global trade battle. Bush lifted the tariffs in December 2003. A few months after that, steel industry employment stopped falling again. So ... maybe tariffs don't work so well.

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
      • (Score: 0, Troll) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday March 03 2018, @01:07AM (3 children)

        by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Saturday March 03 2018, @01:07AM (#646743) Homepage

        Fuckhuge construction uses rebar, I-beams and all other kinds of steel. Joe-shit the ragman who wants a new swimming pool or a new concrete pad uses rebar. Trump has an infrastructure bill coming.

        " B-b-but what about national debt and becoming bankrupt? "

        Then our creditors had better shut their fat stinkin' mouths or else we'll blow them up.

        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday March 03 2018, @03:20AM (2 children)

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday March 03 2018, @03:20AM (#646797) Journal

          Then our creditors had better shut their fat stinkin' mouths or else we'll blow them up.

          You know that the creditors can shut their purse up. Sure, go ahead, print worthless paper.

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
          • (Score: 3, Touché) by deimtee on Saturday March 03 2018, @04:56AM (1 child)

            by deimtee (3272) on Saturday March 03 2018, @04:56AM (#646848) Journal

            Somebody* should tell Trump that while they sold the right to print money to the private bankers who own the Federal Reserve, he still retains the power to mint coin and that there is no limit on the face value of coins. He can mint a hundred coins with a face value of a trillion dollars each and pay off the debt if he wants.

            (*'somebody' here means an anarchist who wants to watch as the world burns, set to the music of screaming economists.)

            --
            If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
            • (Score: 2) by fritsd on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:37PM

              by fritsd (4586) on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:37PM (#647024) Journal

              He can mint a hundred coins with a face value of a trillion dollars each and pay off the debt if he wants.

              Well.. I can imagine Trump agrees with the first half of your proposal, at least... is that good enough?

              I had this picture in my mind: Trump goes swimming [wikipedia.org]

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday March 03 2018, @02:52AM

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday March 03 2018, @02:52AM (#646786) Journal

      The only reason to put up a tariff

      is to protect against unfair trade practices, such as dumping.

      https://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/20/china-steel-overcapacity-war.html [cnbc.com]

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by RamiK on Saturday March 03 2018, @04:55AM (1 child)

      by RamiK (1813) on Saturday March 03 2018, @04:55AM (#646846)

      Canada (and China) do subsidize their heavy industries compared to the US since they offer social programs. If all the low-income workers don't need to over-pay for medical insurance, utilities and housing since the money is coming off taxes from other industries and - Cthulhu forbids - the rich, then that's a significant subsidy for an entire (lower) class of industries and people. That is, not just steel, but every low-paying production job aiming at exports outside the States is handicapped by the lack of a national health insurance, affordable housing programs, regulated / nationalized utilities and so on...

      As for the tariffs, then as it is now: Smoot–Hawley Tariff Act [wikipedia.org].

      --
      compiling...
      • (Score: 2) by dry on Sunday March 04 2018, @04:43AM

        by dry (223) on Sunday March 04 2018, @04:43AM (#647478) Journal

        On the other hand, the US subsidizes its industries and workers with low taxes and a dollar kept high through various means such as pegging the world price of oil to the US$. Then there's things like the subsidized gasoline, a CDN$1.40 a litre (close to $4US a US gallon) locally here. Not to mention housing, groceries and most other stuff that America subsides through borrowing a trillion+ a year. When our government borrows US$100,000,000,000 a year instead of CDN$18,000,000,000 (multiply by 70% to convert) to subsidize our people and industries we can talk about unfair subsidies.

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @10:08AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @10:08AM (#646974)

      This has less to do with metal trade policy than putting a shot across China's bow in general.

      Sailing aircraft carriers around Asian waters and bloviating at the UN will never deter or coerce the mercantillist behemoth that is China.

      The one and only threat to China is internal social unrest. Upsetting their shaky economic apple cart is sound strategy.

      Xi is putting Machiavelli and Colbert to shame right now. Unimpeded, this will not change.

      Oh, and Russia? We need them. Not as a manufactured public threat or political whipping boy, but as a powerful regional counterpoise. The Russians, for all their public talk of "partnerships" with Beijing, are watching their own backs. Moscow always hedges it's bets, and Putin is nobody's fool, least of all Washington's or Beijing's.

      Trump's team, in this particular case, may be smarter than they look.

  • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @11:00PM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @11:00PM (#646681)

    And it sucks that nobody will look beyond the democrats, so that's what we're stuck with to keep the chairs warm while we get around to looking for people who accept the job in congress as a public service. In the meantime, nobody is talking about social security. I wonder if all those Trump supporters and the weak in the knees democrats know how badly they are jeopardizing it.

    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by HiThere on Friday March 02 2018, @11:13PM (2 children)

      by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Friday March 02 2018, @11:13PM (#646690) Journal

      The reason nobody will look beyond the Democrats for an alternative is that there is a design problem in the US electoral system that blatantly favors a two party system. It's call plurality win. If a majority were required to win the problem wouldn't exist, but we might well have lots of elections with no winner at all. Two solutions to this problem are Instant Runoff Voting (IRV) and Condorcet voting. Condorcet is slightly better on a theoretical basis, but IRV is so much easier to explain that it's the only alternative in use anywhere. (Please note, IRV *only* solves a part of the problem, and at the cost of increasing information overload. But it does allow viable third parties, as opposed to "see, we're so tolerant" third parties that don't actually have a chance, and actually tend to swing the election in the other direction.)

      Note: This design problem probably wasn't intentional, but if the founders had considered carefully, they would have been in favor of it. They did not trust the electoral masses, and wanted to restrict both the candidates and the voters to people they would approve of. (Well, most of them. There were those, like Patrick Henry and Thomas Paine, who disagreed. Possibly also Thomas Jefferson, though that's less certain.)

      --
      Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2018, @12:33AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2018, @12:33AM (#647366)

        Condorcet is slightly better on a theoretical basis, but IRV is so much easier to explain that it's the only alternative in use anywhere.

        Condorcet is used by the Debian project.

        (yeah, I know, you meant any nation)

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 05 2018, @08:45AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 05 2018, @08:45AM (#647908)

        Our primary system is as good as anything out there. The Europeans are no better off. Rule by "consensus" does not work. Without an irresistible force, nothing can get done. It just becomes a bureaucrat's paradise. They will bicker themselves right into World War 3 the moment we withdraw our troops.

        Regardless, the system is irrelevant when the voters are disinterested and ignorant by choice. The real danger comes from them. They push the button, they pull the trigger. And right now, they are attacking everything that holds us together.

  • (Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @11:32PM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @11:32PM (#646702)

    To destabilize the American Economy is part of Putin's grand plan, and his lackey is following it. Komrade Trump has proof of his effect on the economy.

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @11:52PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @11:52PM (#646712)

      And Obama is from kenya. /sarc

      This is what you sound like. You just do not realize the Hillary campaign came up with both of these memes.

      The DNC ran a terrible candidate who thought 'love trumps hate' was a good slogan and handing out handing out pink little 'woman cards' was a good idea. She bought that run with Saudi oil money. Think about the previous elections. There were usually at least a dozen people running. Yet only 2 with a surprise 3rd one suddenly in the middle. That is not normal. You want to blame Trump for rigging things; look to the DNC. Look at what they did to Sanders. The fix was in. Do you honestly think with that much power and money on the line this was their first rodeo? That they magically stopped doing it on election day? 'Russia' is a meme designed to keep you engaged and primed for whichever puppet they want to put in front of you. Just like the words 'fake news' are designed to let you dismiss whatever you do not like. You are being manipulated and are LETTING it happen. Trump may be an ass, but Hillary is rotten to the core.

    • (Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Saturday March 03 2018, @03:06AM

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday March 03 2018, @03:06AM (#646792) Journal

      You're confusing China and Russia. http://freebeacon.com/national-security/chinas-secret-strategy-exposed/ [freebeacon.com]

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @06:30AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @06:30AM (#646901)

      Is Trump also doing Putin's bidding when he expands US oil production? That extra oil is going to cause lower prices and hurt Russia in a big way.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @11:35PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @11:35PM (#646705)

    the price of foil headgear is a conspiracy!

  • (Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Friday March 02 2018, @11:54PM (8 children)

    by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Friday March 02 2018, @11:54PM (#646714) Homepage Journal

    Surely you must agree that the biggest cost center in candy manufacturing is the sugar.

    All those candy factories up and moved to Canada.

    I drink Mexican Coca-Cola - sweetened with real sugar - because I regard high-fructose corn syrup as a tool of the Devil.

    --
    Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday March 02 2018, @11:59PM (7 children)

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Friday March 02 2018, @11:59PM (#646717) Journal

      I drink Mexican Coca-Cola

      But... is the can made from American aluminium or not?... (grin)

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
      • (Score: 4, Informative) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:35AM (6 children)

        by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:35AM (#646729) Homepage

        Mexican Coke as bought by Americans is always in old-skool glass bottles. There may be concerns of lead or asbestos in the bottlecap but Americans are civilized enough to know to wipe the mouthpiece of every glass bottle after opening.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @03:44AM (5 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @03:44AM (#646810)

          its 2017. you're still drinking sodie-pop? no wonder your country is going downhill.

          • (Score: 0, Troll) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday March 03 2018, @04:34AM (4 children)

            by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Saturday March 03 2018, @04:34AM (#646837) Homepage

            Suck my dick, faggot.

            • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:46AM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:46AM (#646922)

              Done, and done. Now what, Eth?

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @10:11AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @10:11AM (#646975)

                Swallow.

            • (Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:47AM (1 child)

              by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:47AM (#646923) Homepage Journal

              I'll even give you a reacharound when I buttfuck you.

              --
              Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @10:14AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @10:14AM (#646977)

                Did you break up with Aristarchus, or are you planning a 3-way?

  • (Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:27AM

    by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:27AM (#646938) Homepage Journal

    Our country has tremendous problems. We're a serious debtor nation. Our National Debt is, what, 19, 20 trillion dollars? Under Obama, the National Debt grew by more than $1 trillion per year. We paid it down by $102 billion in my first 7 months. The media didn't report that. We're going to pay it all off over a period of 8 years. By lowering taxes -- we did the biggest Tax Cut in history. And by renegotiating all of our deals, the big trade deals that we’re doing so badly on. Tariffs are a HUGE part of that.

    And we're cutting back on so much WASTEFUL SPENDING. From weather forecasters to furniture to jet fighters. So our government is much less expensive to run.

    In my book The Art of the Comeback I tell how I survived the Great Depression of 1990. And how I thrived after it. Believe me, America's making a comeback. Big league.

  • (Score: 2) by srobert on Saturday March 03 2018, @06:15PM

    by srobert (4803) on Saturday March 03 2018, @06:15PM (#647162)

    It's topsy turvy when Democrats are championing trade agreements, while a Republican president talks abut implementing tariffs. I think dynamic tariffs which can encourage fair labor and environmental practices should have been incorporated into U.S. trade agreements from the start. But I don't have much confidence in Donald Trump to do any of it correctly. I've thought him to be a rather stupid man ever since I read his book, "The Art of the Deal". Like a stop clock, he can be right twice a day.

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