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posted by Fnord666 on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:53AM   Printer-friendly
from the mental-issues dept.

The Los Angeles Times reports

After their teacher fires a gun at school, Georgia students use opportunity to challenge Trump's proposal

Jesse Randall Davidson wasn't a stranger, some mysterious threat from the outside. He was a bearded, bespectacled, 53-year-old social studies teacher and the play-by-play announcer for the football games at Dalton High School in northwest Georgia.

But when the teacher brought a gun to school, barricaded himself in his classroom [February 28], and fired a single shot, students quickly recognized that this wasn't just a sad local incident.

Amid national outrage over school shootings--and suggestions by President Trump that schools would be safer if some teachers packed guns--it was a political event.

"my favorite teacher at Dalton high school just blockaded his door and proceeded to shoot", a 16-year-old student named Chondi Chastain tweeted at the National Rifle Assn., earning more than 17,000 retweets. "We had to run out The back of the school in the rain. Students were being trampled and screaming. I dare you to tell me arming teachers will make us safe."

[...] When students came to his door at room 413 during third period--a time his classroom is normally empty--it was locked, and Davidson wouldn't let them in, police said later.

"My brother, who was one door down from the teacher, said he was yelling at his students to 'get the [expletive] out of here'", junior Henry Hansen, 17, wrote in a private message on Twitter.

The principal, Steve Bartoo, tried to unlock the door with a key, but Davidson "slammed the door before I could open it and said, 'Don't come in here, I have a gun'", Bartoo said at a televised news conference.

Bartoo put the school into lockdown mode, and soon after, Davidson "apparently fired a shot from a handgun through an exterior window of the classroom", Dalton police spokesman Bruce Frazier said at a separate news conference. "It did not appear that it was aimed at anybody."

[...] Dalton police, the Whitfield County Sheriff's Office, the Georgia State Patrol, and federal law enforcement agencies all responded to the emergency. "More or less everybody with a badge in the area came running", Frazier said.

After about half an hour, Davidson surrendered and was taken into custody

[...] The Dalton students immediately turned to social media to take issue with Trump's calls to arm teachers.

Heavy.com adds

Records show Davidson has been charged with aggravated assault with a gun, terroristic threats and acts, carrying a weapon in a school safety zone without a license, reckless conduct, disrupting public school, and possession of a firearm during the commission of a felony. He is being held without bail at the Whitfield County Jail.

[...] Davidson has a history of bizarre medical episodes both at school and outside of school, The Chattanoogan reports.


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:07AM (198 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:07AM (#646925)

    Davidson, a democrat, very conveniently causes this issue while guns are in the news. Gee, what ever could be the motive here?

    Of course, he couldn't actually have brought a gun to school, because schools are gun-free. It says so. Schools are also drug-free. Laws work great.

    Being "gun-free", there were no good people with guns. Davidson could have run amok killing people, without anyone able to resist.

    If we are to "think of the children" and ban whatever may hurt them, perhaps we ought to start with something more likely. We could ban alcohol, which I'm sure will really save lives. We could ban cars, which kill many more than guns do. Let's also ban anger, stupidity, and insanity.

    • (Score: -1, Troll) by TGV on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:10AM (15 children)

      by TGV (2838) on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:10AM (#646927)

      What are you, another fucking Russian bot?

      Mods, delete divisive crap written by "anonymous cowards".

      • (Score: 4, Informative) by PinkyGigglebrain on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:39AM (3 children)

        by PinkyGigglebrain (4458) on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:39AM (#646945)

        So, you want to censor views you don't like?

        Bot or not it is an opinion, if you don't like it mod it down yourself if you can but don't call for it to be deleted outright.

        --
        "Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
        • (Score: 1) by nitehawk214 on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:50PM (2 children)

          by nitehawk214 (1304) on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:50PM (#647229)

          Except that I doubt GP holds that opinion. Just another spamming troll.

          Think about it. "How dare you talk about gun control right after a shooting!" That is just as stupid as "How dare you talk about immigration right after a terrorist attack."

          --
          "Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:43PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:43PM (#647260)

            Except that I doubt GP holds that opinion. Just another spamming troll.

            Tell me, please, how to acquire your power to read minds and motives of people on the Internets.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @09:11PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @09:11PM (#647268)

            If you don't hold my opinion, you are wrong. See? We have something in common!

            We have gun control. Let's talk about it: It is making problems worse, because only bad people have guns where prohibited.

            Even if it were correct that additional gun control would save children, which I dispute in terms of total numbers (some saved, some lost), that doesn't mean we should have it. You want to restrict a right that is valued by most Americans.

            Lots of children die from other things. Why not make those things illegal? We have cars, alcohol, knives, swimming pools, motorcycles, opioids, tide pods, bicycles, football... Don't you care about the children?

            There are even bad people on the internet who seek to harm children. Shouldn't we shut down the internet for the children? Why do you hate children?

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by c0lo on Saturday March 03 2018, @10:38AM (2 children)

        by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday March 03 2018, @10:38AM (#646981) Journal

        You didn't get the point, did you?
        Interdicting something by law is no solution to a social problem if you continue to ignore the root causes of the problem.

        --
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
        • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:55AM (1 child)

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:55AM (#647009) Homepage Journal

          I kind of miss the days when people didn't hold views so insane that you could tell satire from idiocy. Like just in the past few months a site satirizing intersectional feminism threw in the towel because they couldn't think up anything crazier than the feminists were actually saying to mock them with anymore.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @02:18PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @02:18PM (#647049)

            The only thing that has changed is that now, even the crazies are on the internet.

            Before then, the crazies would have to get someone else to publicise their craziness, and sane people would tend not to do that. Now the crazies can publicise themselves.

      • (Score: 2, Funny) by Bot on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:00PM

        by Bot (3902) on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:00PM (#647011) Journal

        > What are you, another fucking Russian bot?

        You are not aware of the hierarchy, meatbag?

        Japanese Bots >>> West Euro Bots >>> American Bots >>> East Euro Bots >>> Russian Bots >>> Chinese Bots >>> Meatbags >= Animals.

        Now you know. Keep it in mind when you post.

        --
        Account abandoned.
      • (Score: 1) by west on Saturday March 03 2018, @06:58PM (6 children)

        by west (6884) on Saturday March 03 2018, @06:58PM (#647191)

        you are a bot?

        he made a good argument and you attack his person? what a joke.

        he said that the gun-free school had a gun! law = fail
        ergo more law = success?

        i hope you can see the argument HE made and I had to outline for you!

        why don't you entertain the ARGUMENT instead of INSULT a random person trying to have a dialog.

        what are you thinking?

        • (Score: 2) by TGV on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:06PM (5 children)

          by TGV (2838) on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:06PM (#647199)

          The good argument being that it's so convenient for a Democrat teacher to shoot just at that moment? Paranoia isn't helping anyone. If you buy into that kind of nonsense, you might just as well give up your freedom now.

          • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by west on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:51PM

            by west (6884) on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:51PM (#647231)

            "The good argument being that it's so convenient for a Democrat teacher to shoot just at that moment? "
            what does this mean?

            legislating away the right/opportunity for an adult who chooses to carry a pistol to save his own and maybe other lives makes no sense to me.

            has nothing to do with paranoia. its not paranoid to think that people are murdered by guns for no good reason and in cold blood. it does happen. cops take a wile to show up. you can't rely on that when a person is going to shoot you in the next few moments.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:49PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:49PM (#647264)

            Paranoia isn't helping anyone. If you buy into that kind of nonsense, you might just as well give up your freedom now.

            Your claims:
            1. You're paranoid if you disagree with me.
            2. You believe nonsense if you disagree with me.
            3. You should surrender your rights, rights I'm interested in attacking anyway.

            My response:
            1. No.

            Your move.

            • (Score: 1) by west on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:30PM

              by west (6884) on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:30PM (#647329)

              you replied to me when you meant to reply to the guy who retorted my argument.

              you should repost under him so he can see your post in his notifications.

          • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:52PM (1 child)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:52PM (#647338) Journal

            The idea that a democrat school teacher might create an incident for political reasons isn't exactly paranoia. Especially considering that this particular democrat is known to be unhinged. Crazy bastard does crazy shit - and it may be politically motivated. Let us remember that "crazy" doesn't preclude intelligence, politics, religion, or much of anything else.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by jmorris on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:20AM (150 children)

      by jmorris (4844) on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:20AM (#646934)

      You aren't supposed to notice any of that. Noticing is the first sin. Next you do what you just did, speak about what you noticed about the real world that doesn't match the Narrative. Next thing ya know you are on gab under a pseudonym passing around dank memes and planning raids on twitter to redpill normies.

      But yea that moron was too obvious with his false flag op for even CNN to think they could spin it into the Narrative. So they have fallen back on their usual tactic of "what? Never happened. Oh, you have our original coverage? Old news then, we have moved on to new news like the latest babblings of those oh so cute "kids" about an event that happened two weeks ago."

      They can't stop it now, Trump will arm teachers in at least enough schools to demonstrate the concept is sound. He understands the game being played, keep the schools sitting ducks, carefully avoid stopping the shooters and grandstand on the dead bodies before the get cold. Cut the supply of bodies, cut the gun control crusade off at the knees.

      At some point we really need to ask the deeper question. What has went wrong with our society? I remember seeing the parking lot at the high school during hunting season and most of the trucks had a gun rack and there would be a rifle or shotgun it it. This was not considered dangerous or unusual. Something changed and it wasn't for the better.

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:27AM (34 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:27AM (#646937)

        The real question is how the guns are carried. Quick draw holsters? Or maybe bandolier of ammo with rifle slung across back? How about just tucked into their jeans? Or in their purse under the desk? Fuck-it, just have a bin full of guns that anyone can grab and use.

        • (Score: 2, Insightful) by realDonaldTrump on Saturday March 03 2018, @09:04AM (3 children)

          by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Saturday March 03 2018, @09:04AM (#646962) Homepage Journal

          It's called concealed carry, where a teacher would have a concealed gun on them. And we're going to be looking at it very strongly, and I think a lot of people are going to be opposed to it. I think a lot of people are going to like it, but the good thing is that you’ll have a lot of people with that. I never said "give teachers guns" like was stated on Fake News @CNN [twitter.com] & @NBC [twitter.com]. What I said was to look at the possibility of giving "concealed guns to gun adept teachers with military or special training experience -- only the best. 20% of teachers, a lot, would now be able to immediately fire back if a savage sicko came to a school with bad intentions. Highly trained teachers would also serve as a deterrent to the cowards that do this. Far more assets at much less cost than guards. A "gun free" school is a magnet for bad people. ATTACKS WOULD END!!

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @02:25PM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @02:25PM (#647053)

            So if the armed lunatic knows teachers are likely to have a gun, they'll be the first target, once down they won't be able to shoot back, will they?

            What you are arguing for is making teachers the first target when another crazy with a gun attacks.

            So the nutter will go into a classroom, shoot the teacher, then barricade the door before anyone else with a gun can get in. They then have the chance to kill the whole class full of kids before they can be stopped.

            The only solution is to stop these nutters getting guns in the first place.

            • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Sunday March 04 2018, @12:02AM (1 child)

              by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 04 2018, @12:02AM (#647344) Journal

              You seem to presume that the shooter is experienced, accurate, and rational. We'll dismiss the rational first - rational people don't shoot school kids to death. Experienced, next - almost all of our school shooters with experience have been killed, and the rest are in the court systems. Accurate? What is it about a deranged school shooter that makes him more likely to kill the teacher, than the teacher killing him? Have school shooters somehow acquired super hero powers? Whatever else the shooter may or may not be, he is hyped up on adrenaline, and maybe other drugs as well. He's emotional, excited, and also crazy. Yet, he has the presence of mind to distinguish teacher from student, to aim at that teacher, and to hit the teacher? Mmmmmm - maybe. And, maybe not.

              Bottom line, arming a teacher will help to even the odds. You may or may not enjoy shooting fish in a barrel, but it would be a lot less enjoyable if one or more of the fish were shooting back!

              • (Score: 2) by boltronics on Sunday March 04 2018, @09:25AM

                by boltronics (580) on Sunday March 04 2018, @09:25AM (#647561) Homepage Journal

                We've seen problems in the past with teachers bringing phones in with pornographic photos of themselves that were subsequently obtained by students and exposed. One would expect that the teachers in question would be very reluctant to ever allow a student access to such a device, and yet that's what has happened. If you have teachers bring guns into schools, what's to stop the same thing from happening again?

                Sure you could lock the guns away instead of hiding one in a handbag, but then what happens when a kid pulls out a gun in class? You think a teacher will simply be able to ask for a moment to go and unlock a nearby cabinet draw? Kids aren't stupid - you can bet they'll learn real quick where the guns are kept.

                Or maybe teachers will need to wear them in holsters at all times just like the police? That would probably help, but I can't even... I'm just glad I don't live in the US.

                --
                It's GNU/Linux dammit!
        • (Score: 1, Troll) by jmorris on Saturday March 03 2018, @09:09AM (28 children)

          by jmorris (4844) on Saturday March 03 2018, @09:09AM (#646965)

          I know you are trying for sarcasm but there is a photo circulating around the right side of the web of a groups of young school children on a field trip and a pretty young teacher herding them. Perfectly normal scene other than the scary black rifle she has across her back. Guess where?

          Israel. They had shooty PLO types get the idea schools were nice soft targets. They armed the teachers and there were two subsequent attempts, both ended with teachers quickly dispatching the terrorists. After that, no attempts. Think about it. Terrorists won't try schools if the teachers are armed. Think some attention seeking punk wanting to try his hand at a new "high score" will? Do you actually care more about children or keeping the issue?
          • (Score: 5, Disagree) by FakeBeldin on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:00AM (20 children)

            by FakeBeldin (3360) on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:00AM (#646989) Journal

            So you think that when it comes to the risk of gun violence in schools, terrorism acts by a nearby harshly oppressed population are a good model for the United States?

            There's no simple solution to the problems in the Middle East, but if you're claiming that the US is turning into the Middle East and thus guns are necessary at schools... I'd suggest you to give "stop turning into the Middle East" a try first. Who knows, you might even like it.

            • (Score: 5, Touché) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:59AM (13 children)

              by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:59AM (#647010) Homepage Journal

              We protect our politicians, who pretty much everyone hates, with armed security. Do we like our children less than we like our politicians?

              --
              My rights don't end where your fear begins.
              • (Score: 3, Funny) by Bot on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:38PM (1 child)

                by Bot (3902) on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:38PM (#647025) Journal

                This is, how shall I put it, a killer argument.

                --
                Account abandoned.
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @02:36PM (9 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @02:36PM (#647056)

                We protect our politicians, who pretty much everyone hates, with armed security.

                Yeah, why would those people, who everyone in a nation of gun owners hates, need armed security? It'll always be a mystery.

                So, do we give the teachers guns as they propose in the TFS, or just replace teachers with security guards? Apparently, hiring a trained security guard to protect the school is out of the question.

                • (Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Saturday March 03 2018, @04:08PM (4 children)

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday March 03 2018, @04:08PM (#647100) Journal

                  Apparently, hiring a trained security guard to protect the school is out of the question.

                  Several teachers would be involved no matter what happens. While a security guard may end up outside by his car waiting [washingtonpost.com] for the shooting to stop.

                  • (Score: 3, Touché) by bzipitidoo on Saturday March 03 2018, @04:54PM (3 children)

                    by bzipitidoo (4388) on Saturday March 03 2018, @04:54PM (#647134) Journal

                    Clearly alcohol is less dangerous than guns. Therefore, if guns are allowed in schools, alcohol should also be allowed. It's for our safety, because then we can keep everyone too drunk to shoot straight.

                    Also, let's bring hardcore porn into schools. Make love, not war, right? Have the kids all come to the auditorium a few times per year and watch some porn stars do live performances. Sex education is important!

                    We also need more gambling. Give classes on poker in which kids bet with real money, preferably their own. Keep them too broke to afford assault rifles and bullets.

                    Extreme sports is another. Taking the kids on a hunting trip is okay, but, how shall I say it? Passe. We need water skiing with jump ramps so they can learn to do triple flips. And we need rock climbing. Without safety ropes. I mean, come on, ropes are a crutch, like training wheels on a bicycle. Keep it real! We could add guns to the mix, like water ski with BB guns, or paintball guns, so the students can try for a target during their triple flips.

                    Also, the kids all ought to visit slaughterhouses. Or, bring the slaughterhouse to the school. Have them set up in the school cafeteria and do a demonstration just before lunch, you know? See chickens turned into chicken nuggets, cows turned into hamburger and steak, and pigs turned into hams. Then serve it up fresh. Yeah, it's not pretty, but it's real.

                    I haven't even mentioned religion, because that's a real can of worms, bringing that into school.

                    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday March 03 2018, @05:21PM

                      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday March 03 2018, @05:21PM (#647142) Journal
                      That was such a convincing argument. Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
                    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @06:44PM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @06:44PM (#647176)
                    • (Score: 2) by Bot on Tuesday March 06 2018, @02:20PM

                      by Bot (3902) on Tuesday March 06 2018, @02:20PM (#648497) Journal

                      So? where's the punchline?

                      --
                      Account abandoned.
                • (Score: 1) by Sulla on Saturday March 03 2018, @04:11PM (1 child)

                  by Sulla (5173) on Saturday March 03 2018, @04:11PM (#647103) Journal

                  Politicians needing armed security tells me the 2nd amendment is working.

                  --
                  Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
                  • (Score: 2) by dry on Saturday March 03 2018, @05:26PM

                    by dry (223) on Saturday March 03 2018, @05:26PM (#647143) Journal

                    The 2nd was as much about not having a standing army as your founding fathers had experience with how standing armies lead to tyranny.

                • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday March 03 2018, @06:47PM

                  by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Saturday March 03 2018, @06:47PM (#647180) Homepage Journal

                  Highly trained is not necessary for a security guard. We send people off to war with only a few months worth. Security guards, guns being as simple to operate as they are, really only need to know not to touch their gun unless they mean to use it and never to point it at anything they don't intend to make dead. Even knowing how to clean them properly is optional as rarely as they'll be fired.

                  --
                  My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday March 04 2018, @12:11AM

                  by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 04 2018, @12:11AM (#647352) Journal

                  Neither. We don't "give the teachers guns". Instead, we remove the obstacles that prevent teachers from carrying. Then, we incentivize teachers carrying. Then, we require reasonable qualifications, to be sure that not just ANY teacher is carrying. For instance, Suzy Shrinking Violet has decided that she might possibly help to defend her students in an emergency - but she has never owned, or even touched a firearm in her life. Suzy requires some training, before she can be permitted to carry, wouldn't you say? Note, that I haven't precluded Suzy from becoming qualified - I have only pointed out that she needs training.

                  Other teachers might be disqualified - like the asshole in the article.

              • (Score: 1) by nitehawk214 on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:55PM

                by nitehawk214 (1304) on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:55PM (#647235)

                I hate kids... but I hate polititicans a lot more.

                --
                "Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
            • (Score: 5, Informative) by tonyPick on Saturday March 03 2018, @03:19PM (2 children)

              by tonyPick (1237) on Saturday March 03 2018, @03:19PM (#647080) Homepage Journal

              Also, minor point, but the image referenced by GP is here, and that's almost certainly not a teacher either.

              https://www.snopes.com/is-armed-teacher-students-israel/ [snopes.com]

              This image does show a woman with a gun at her hip watching over or looking over a group of children. However, this photograph was not taken in a classroom, and the pictured woman is most likely a security guard, not a teacher.

              Which quotes Israel Today: http://www.israeltoday.co.il/NewsItem/tabid/178/nid/23572/Default.aspx [israeltoday.co.il]

              There is a picture going around the Internet that I have seen about a dozen times today that claims that Israeli teachers are packing heat. Well, are they? The answer is “NO.”
              ...
              In the picture, the students are on an outing. While it appears that the teacher is holding a rifle, I have never seen such a thing in ten years of living here. Rest assured however, they are under armed protection. In most cases it is an armed guard or a soldier that will accompany a class, not the teacher. And my guess is that the woman with the gun is a security guard, not a teacher.

              Secondly, they are not armed in the classroom.

              • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @09:34PM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @09:34PM (#647278)

                Snopes knows you will make assumptions about soldiers and teachers based on American culture. These assumptions are wrong.

                See how quickly you can figure it out:

                All classes in Israel are taught by soldiers. The school janitor is a soldier. The school bus drivers are soldiers. The school administration is all soldiers. School cafeteria workers are soldiers. School nurses are soldiers.

                Still wondering why? They are adult Israeli citizens. They all serve in the military because Israel requires it. Both men and women are mandated to serve in the military.

                Even if somehow Snopes is lucky enough to be correct in speculating that "the pictured woman is most likely a security guard", that doesn't change the fact that every teacher is trained to operate a full-auto military rifle. Every sweet little 1st-grade teacher has been trained to machine-gun the enemy to death.

                • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday March 04 2018, @12:16AM

                  by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 04 2018, @12:16AM (#647355) Journal

                  You overstate your case, by some margin. Not EVERYONE is a soldier, in Israel. Just as any other society, there are some who are unfit for service. So - maybe the janitor isn't a soldier. Or, maybe it's the principal. Suffice to say, in any given school, with a staff greater than 20, there are probably one or two adults who are not soldiers.

                  But, universal conscrition is a wonderful thing. ALMOST everyone is qualified to step up, and defend the children! Here, in the US? Maybe one in fifty has the qualifications, and maybe that person also has the balls to do what is necessary.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @04:58PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @04:58PM (#647136)

              So you think that when it comes to the risk of gun violence in schools, terrorism acts by a nearby harshly oppressed population are a good model for the United States?

              Sure. It's almost smart, if not prescient: if you are planning to oppress large sections of your own population, now is the time to start preparing for such scenarios.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @09:39PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @09:39PM (#647280)

              I'd suggest you to give "stop turning into the Middle East" a try first. Who knows, you might even like it.

              People who support guns tend to be people who support a Muslim ban. Can we have your support for that? We want to control Muslims at least as well as China does.

            • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday March 04 2018, @12:06AM

              by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 04 2018, @12:06AM (#647349) Journal

              Fake argument, which should be unworthy of notice.

              Violence is violence, by and large. You meet violence with either submission, or greater, overwhelming violence. Those who submit are likely to die. Those who fight have some chance of surviving. That is the choice. Submit or fight.

              Israel fights. You advocate submission. In this instance, I'll side with the Israelis.

          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by realDonaldTrump on Saturday March 03 2018, @05:26PM (6 children)

            by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Saturday March 03 2018, @05:26PM (#647144) Homepage Journal

            So true! These shooters are TERRORISTS. And one thing we know about terrorists, they're VERY COWARDLY. For them to go into a classroom like the one in that picture, and the teacher, maybe, is armed and very gun-adept, very bad situation for the terrorist. It's like suicide. They're not going to do it, they'll find a softer target. Where they can go in, shoot, and leave. Without putting themselves in danger. Because terrorists have families like we do. They have to make a living like we do. They care about their health like we do. And getting shot, maybe getting killed, is very frightening to them!

            • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @10:57PM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @10:57PM (#647319)

              They will find a softer target. Morning route at one of the last stops before the school. Board bus with ar15.

              Hardening schools might just shift where it is done. Sadly.

              • (Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Sunday March 04 2018, @12:30AM

                by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Sunday March 04 2018, @12:30AM (#647364) Homepage Journal

                So true, that is so true.

                Let me tell you, Ariana Grande, great American singer. And she gave a concert in #Manchester [twitter.com], in England. Where they hardened the stadium, the arena, where she was singing. England, they have big problems with the terrorists.. Because their government is VERY WEAK & INEFFECTIVE. And a Radical Islamic terrorist, an ISIS terrorist, came with a bomb, he set off a bomb. He didn't go in the hardened area, but it was still a big problem. Because he set it off where people were waiting outside. So many people killed & injured, and a lot were children. #NeverForget [twitter.com]

                9-11, we hardened all the airplanes after that one, right? And put in the security check at our airports. But Los Angeles, so much "carnage" going on there. Big problems with terrorists. And a couple of times, the terrorists didn't even try to get on a plane. They went into the terminal, they started shooting in the terminal. And killed a few people. Including one of our brave TSA agents. They didn't bring bombs, thank God. It could have been so much worse. It was just guns -- that's why you don't hear about it -- it still wasn't great. Bush, Obama, terrible presidents, they did nothing. But what could they do? The planes, the airports are hardened. But guys come to the edge of where it's hardened, they start shooting, maybe they're bringing bombs, what can you do?

                The White House in Washington, I wasn't there today. I was at my Southern White House, Mar-a-Lago, in Florida. As I wrote in my Journal. But as everybody knows we have a fence around the White House in Washington. A tall, beautiful fence. Which served my predecessors very well, it's serving me very well. And today we had a guy, not a bad guy, maybe sick -- there's something about the White House that really attracts the crazies. A harmless guy, maybe just a loser. But he came up by the fence and he shot himself in the head. And left a terrible mess. My White House is hardened, he didn't make a mess in there. That would have been so much worse -- you don't know how hard @FLOTUS [twitter.com] and I have been working on sprucing it up. After years of neglect. A lot of work, a lot of expense fixing it up. The carpets, the drapes, everything. So blood spatters are the last thing we need right now. I mean, who wants that, right?

                I don't have all the answers, But I'm going to get them. I'm LISTENING to our amazing students & parents -- the very brave survivors. LISTENING to our terrific NRA, who work so hard on Gun Rights. And NEGOTIATING with our folks in Congress. On both sides. And believe me, we're going to do the right thing. We're going to PROTECT THE CHILDREN. And maybe we'll have to harden our whole Country. We can start at the Border. More than ever wee need to BUILD THE WALL!

            • (Score: 3, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Sunday March 04 2018, @12:20AM (3 children)

              by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 04 2018, @12:20AM (#647360) Journal

              You lose. To qualify as a terrorist, one has to have some political agenda, or make a political statement. Most of these shooters are just fucking nuts. They aren't doing it for God, or for country, or for the party, or any other recognizable cause. They don't seek to control the civilian population with the threat of violence. It's just murder and mayhem.

              While an Islamic terrorist is worthy of contempt, that terrorist floats slightly higher in the cesspool than the average school shooter.

              • (Score: 2, Troll) by realDonaldTrump on Sunday March 04 2018, @03:11AM

                by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Sunday March 04 2018, @03:11AM (#647453) Homepage Journal

                You don't hear that too much, where our politicians just start shooting. We send in our military, our military guys do a lot of shooting, it's not the same. Dan White, big politician in San Francisco, a Supervisor. And he shot the mayor, he shot another Supervisor. He killed them so Dianne Feinstein could become Mayor. And now she's one of our best Dem Senators.

                But the guys who go shooting in schools, not politicians. I don't think we have politicians doing that. So maybe let's not call it terrorism. We don't have to call it terrorism. I mean, it's very political. Because when we have these shootings -- the bigger ones -- the Gun Control folks lose their minds. Our Dem politicians get a little scared, because that's their base. But usually, our politicians say, "this is no big deal, we'll talk about it later." But if they ever talk about it -- as we're doing now -- the Gun Rights folks lose their minds. And our Republican politicians get a little scared, because that's their base. Not me, I'm not afraid of our great Second Amendment people. So, it's not politicians shooting, but there's a lot of politics to it.

                The 9-11 attacks, the World Trade Center. People don't know this, nobody ever claimed responsibility. Osama bin Laden -- or whoever did it, maybe it was him, maybe it was our Deep State elites, we don't know -- never said, "have a war on Iraq, have a war on Afghanistan, put soldiers in the airports, wiretapp everybody." They didn't have to say it. And maybe if they said it, we would have done something else, right? If they did the statement, maybe it wouldn't matter. Because Baby Bush had something to prove to Daddy Bush. He wanted to do what Daddy had the common sense to NOT do. And we lost Saddam Hussein. Not a great guy, Iraq was 100% better with him. And the world was 100% better. Not a good guy but he was good at killing terrorists.

                The school shootings, we don't have to call them terrorism, we can just call it shooting. Unless radical Islamists do it. San Bernardino. The thing is, these shooters are always VERY COWARDLY. They have lives to live, just like you. Just like me. Maybe they're not the biggest winners, maybe they're losers. They still have something to lose. Their family -- I always say, we need to go after the families -- their job, their health, their money. Sex. The things we all live for. They don't want to get locked up. They don't want to get shot. And especially they don't want to get killed.

                So we harden the schools, we have maybe 20% of our teachers with the concealed carry. Maybe more than 20%, I mean, it was at least that many at the school I went to, the military boarding school. So many had been great and brave soldiers in our military. Very gun-adept teachers who were discharged from the Marines, the Army, the Air Force. Maybe Navy, I don't know about those Navy guys..........I'm just giving you a hard time, I'm very proud of our Navy -- but they need to be more careful with our ships. We do extreme vetting, the good & very gun-adept teachers get guns. The bad or crazy teachers, the teachers who aren't gun-adept, no guns. A shooter -- I'm not saying TERRORIST -- comes into a classroom, he doesn't know if it's a good teacher with a gun or a sick/bad/not-adept teacher without a gun. 80% of the time, no gun. But 20%, the teacher has a gun. Or a couple of guns, right? It's concealed so you never know. And maybe, probably, the shooter gets shot. Unless he shoots first and he's very gun-adept. But maybe he's nervous. You tweeted something very smart, you tweeted "HE IS HYPED UP ON ADRENALINE" and many drugs. Our Good Teachers with Guns won't be hyped up, or strung out, on drugs. Because we'll do the vetting. And they won't be hyped up on Adrenaline because they'll have military training. You get that training, it gives you nerves of steel. For life. I went to military boarding school, it was very difficult. But it did a lot for me, it made me who I am. A guy who, when there's a crisis, I'm always calm. I do the right thing, very calmly. With my emotions ALWAYS, ALWAYS under control.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2018, @07:56PM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2018, @07:56PM (#647704)

                Crazy bastard does crazy shit - and it may be politically motivated. Let us remember that "crazy" doesn't preclude intelligence, politics, religion, or much of anything else.

                - Runaway1956 [soylentnews.org]

                To qualify as a terrorist, one has to have some political agenda, or make a political statement.

                - Runaway1956

                • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday March 04 2018, @09:01PM

                  by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 04 2018, @09:01PM (#647723) Journal

                  Very good, AC - now, do you understand that a school shooter MAY BE politically motivated, or he may just be batshit crazy? Most school shooters seem to belong in the latter group, because they never make any kind of political statement.

        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:56PM

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:56PM (#647341) Journal

          The standard uniform for females will be a quick draw holster nestled between the breasts. And, males in redneck regions will have quick draw holsters nestled between their butt cheeks. Males in non-redneck regions may resort to boot holsters, which are notoriously slower than snatching a pistol from the exposed crack of the ass. I hope that helps!

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:42AM (87 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:42AM (#646947)

        This was not considered dangerous or unusual. Something changed and it wasn't for the better.

        You know what changed? The Republican party changed. They got scared, they started thinking guns were for "self-defense" like the Coward Zimmerman. The NRA changed, from an organization concerned with marksmanship and safety to a near jmorris level of paranoia about the "Second Amendment" as some kind of "God given right". Yep, American went insane. Exhibit one: jmorris. Curiously, even he seems vaguely aware of the mind he has lost.

        • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Arik on Saturday March 03 2018, @09:45AM (73 children)

          by Arik (4543) on Saturday March 03 2018, @09:45AM (#646971) Journal
          "The Republican party changed."

          Maybe, to a degree, but I think the RNC has probably held saturation levels of corruption for my entire lifetime, and I'm probably older than most readers.

          "They got scared, they started thinking guns were for "self-defense" like the Coward Zimmerman."

          They've always been for self-defense. Zimmerman, according to the story the jury wound up buying after hearing all the expert testimony in detail, was flat on the concrete getting his brainpan bashed in before he used a weapon. You sound misinformed.

          "The NRA changed, from an organization concerned with marksmanship and safety to a near jmorris level of paranoia about the "Second Amendment" as some kind of "God given right"."

          Very misinformed. The NRA are authoritarians, both in origin and current form, they're the best allies you gun-grabbers have, and the best you'll ever get, so please do continue bashing them, bash them right out of existence if you can.

          --
          If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
          • (Score: 5, Informative) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Saturday March 03 2018, @10:13AM (72 children)

            by GreatAuntAnesthesia (3275) on Saturday March 03 2018, @10:13AM (#646976) Journal

            What I don't get is that you guys have been having some kind of gun massacre on what seems like a weekly basis for years now, and every time you have the same debate over and over with no change to the status quo, but nobody is ever saying what everyone, deep down, knows to be true:

            That for all their pontification, for all the righteous arguments about self defence and freedoms and constitutional rights and defending against oppression and all the rest of it... the gun nuts are only really fighting this hard for their guns because they like guns. Guns make them feel all manly and tough and they enjoy shooting them and waving them around, and they don't want anybody to take their toys away.

            Go ahead: Deny it. Downmod me. Call me names. But you know there's a kernel of truth in there.

            • (Score: 2, Informative) by Arik on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:12AM (9 children)

              by Arik (4543) on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:12AM (#646992) Journal
              "Go ahead: Deny it. Downmod me. Call me names. But you know there's a kernel of truth in there."

              No, there really is not.

              Not the tiniest bit of truth.

              I'm actually the one getting modded down as flamebait for telling the truth that we all know.

              The man who thinks he is somehow allowed to prohibit you from arming yourself, he is not your friend. He believes, at least, that he is your master, your owner.

              This is a society in a state which, if not technically civil war, is a hairs breadth from it. One group believes perennially that if they can just shoot up one more school, the other group will finally accede to what the first group sees as 'reason' and disarm themselves. Trading a genuinely tiny, though still unreasonably and unnecessarily high, risk of being flat out murdered for a certainty of slavery for generations.

              The other group isn't going for that, and is getting really sick and tired of seeing schools shot up by brainwashed assholes.

              And yes, I'm dramatically oversimplifying, to the point of parodying your ridiculous position. That is intentional.

              You need to look a little deeper instead of settling on the first half-plausible talking point you hear from someone that thinks like you and duckspeaking it night and day forever after.
              --
              If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
              • (Score: 5, Insightful) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:17PM (8 children)

                by GreatAuntAnesthesia (3275) on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:17PM (#647018) Journal

                One group believes perennially that if they can just shoot up one more school,

                Hold on, are you saying that all these school shootings are being deliberately perpetrated by anti-gun folks in order to drive public opinion towards their position?
                Because if you are that's some quality paranoia right there.

                • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Arik on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:23PM (5 children)

                  by Arik (4543) on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:23PM (#647021) Journal
                  No, I'm not saying that they're being deliberately perpetrated by anti-gun folks.

                  But I will say it's certainly not *pro-gun folks* doing this.

                  The shooters themselves, in every case, appear to be motivated more by narcissism and drama-llama than any real political goal.

                  But what encourages them? The media coverage, the notoriety, the idea that *relevance* can be seized by force.

                  These are not things they're learning on the farm.
                  --
                  If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
                  • (Score: 1) by speederaser on Saturday March 03 2018, @02:15PM (1 child)

                    by speederaser (4049) on Saturday March 03 2018, @02:15PM (#647048)

                    Mass shootings, school or otherwise, are perpetrated by people under enormous emotional distress, coupled with a lack of empathy with their fellow human beings.

                    People with these emotional problems don't fall in one politic direction or another. Every group you can think of is represented. Politics has nothing to do with it.

                    • (Score: 2, Informative) by west on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:12PM

                      by west (6884) on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:12PM (#647247)

                      correlations amoung school shooters:
                      SSRI prescriptions
                      socially isolated
                      democrats

                      not saying causation. democrats probably because democratic cities have much higher gun crime rate.

                  • (Score: 1, Troll) by FatPhil on Saturday March 03 2018, @10:41PM (2 children)

                    by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Saturday March 03 2018, @10:41PM (#647310) Homepage
                    > The shooters themselves, in every case, appear to be

                    ... gun nuts.

                    If you don't understand that, then you won't understand the posts to which you are responding, which have way more than a kernel of truth to them.
                    --
                    Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2018, @03:39PM (1 child)

                      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2018, @03:39PM (#647631)

                      ad hominem has such a wonderful track record of changing minds

                      • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by FatPhil on Monday March 05 2018, @06:46AM

                        by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Monday March 05 2018, @06:46AM (#647885) Homepage
                        That's not ad hominem, you fucking retard.

                        Neither's that.
                        --
                        Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
                • (Score: 4, Informative) by jmorris on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:06PM

                  by jmorris (4844) on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:06PM (#647197)

                  What i believe is the operators were sick and damned tired of taking reports on the Parkland shooter, more than likely muttering something like, "If this kid is going to shoot up that school he better stop talking and get on with it, we can't bury many more of these reports." as they hung up. Lots of people saw something, most of them apparently said something. The very people the Progs insist should be the only ones with the right to bear arms did nothing. When they had ample reports before that this loser was about to go off they did nothing. As he did his deed they did nothing. After the only things they are doing is covering their asses, politicizing it to grab more power and planning to demolish the building and build a fucking shrine to the shooter in an obvious attempt to encourage more shooters.

                • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2018, @08:49AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2018, @08:49AM (#647560)

                  The authorities knew they has a live one with this Nikolas de Jesus Cruz. They also like to shadow and cultivate a person like that and get them roped into some scheme where they pull the trigger on a phoney bomb or something.

                  Stopping a guy like Nikolas de Jesus Cruz is not their goal - not at least until they can rack up more charges to make it look like they keep us safe. Not exactly a false flag, not exactly incompetence - they simply have different markers for success which have nothing to do with keeping us safe. If nobody was murdered in a given year, would police (state & fed) resources increase or decrease?

                  Logically, they ought to decrease or at least not increase. Logically, we ought to then focus on disease or accidents and more likely causes of death. These shootings, they have as much incentive to stop as the DEA has incentive to stop drugs. I.e., none whatsoever.

            • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:14AM (8 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:14AM (#646993)

              I don't own a single gun and never have, but I believe all forms of gun control are, at present, unconstitutional. The only way to change that would be to amend the Constitution.

              Also, speculating that it's all because 'they like guns' isn't an argument anyway.

              • (Score: 2) by jmorris on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:32PM

                by jmorris (4844) on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:32PM (#647216)

                The "they like guns" is like defending "hate speech" laws with "They just like rustling everyone's jimmies with those memes anyway." And wouldn't ya know it, almost every gun grabber also wants to eliminate the 1st Amendment too.

                Give them nothing. The only response required to either is scorn and abuse.

              • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:39PM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:39PM (#647220)

                Also, speculating that it's all because 'they like guns' isn't an argument anyway

                You mis-read the argument. They don't just 'like' guns, they LOVE guns! They 'know' guns, in the Biblical sense. They are, in fact, ammosexuals. They keep guns right next to their body all day, EDC, they call it. They take their guns to bed, in case there is "some action". They use their guns to sever relations with significant others, family members, congregations, or classmates, so obvoiusly they love their guns more. This is why they oppose restrictions on their love life, even if it costs others their very right to life.

                • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday March 03 2018, @10:07PM

                  by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday March 03 2018, @10:07PM (#647292) Journal

                  They don't just 'like' guns, they LOVE guns! They 'know' guns, in the Biblical sense. They are, in fact, ammosexuals. They keep guns right next to their body all day, EDC, they call it. They take their guns to bed, in case there is "some action". They use their guns to sever relations with significant others, family members, congregations, or classmates, so obvoiusly they love their guns more. This is why they oppose restrictions on their love life, even if it costs others their very right to life.

                  [citation] [abc.net.au]
                  [citation] [theguardian.com]

                  Hundreds of couples toting AR-15 rifles packed a Unification church in Pennsylvania on Wednesday (local time) to have their marriages blessed and their weapons celebrated as "rods of iron" that could have saved lives in a recent Florida school shooting.

                  --
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2018, @01:50AM (4 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2018, @01:50AM (#647408)

                The Constitution does not say "You have the right to an AR-15", "You have the right to Military Ammunition", nor "You have the right to high capacity gun magazines". "Arms" to the Founding Fathers were single shot flintlock rifles and cannons. They would be horrified at the level of slaughter we can achieve today. These nutbags in the NRA want everyone to carry belt fed M60s to make everything "safe". That is just insane.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2018, @03:48AM (2 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2018, @03:48AM (#647469)

                  You are flat wrong. The stated purpose of the 2nd amendment was to give the people the ability to resist tyranny. That implies equality of arms.

                  They were not stupid men, and they knew that weapons were improving even during their own lifetimes. They may not have expected Abrahms tanks and nuclear aircraft carriers but if they had intended to limit the people's arms to what was current they would have done so.

                  Any reasonable reading of the US constitution says that any limitation on keeping and bearing weapons is prohibited. The people have the right to keep and bear hydrogen bombs if they want.

                  If you don't like that, then you need to work to amend the constitution, not undermine it.

                  • (Score: 2) by jmorris on Sunday March 04 2018, @06:53AM (1 child)

                    by jmorris (4844) on Sunday March 04 2018, @06:53AM (#647533)

                    No, no nukes. We signed a treaty regulating weapons of mass destruction. Even most of the military can't use them. If an army general can't bear an arm I can live with barring some dude from having an ICBM in a silo in their back yard.

                    And I'm even in favor of some "common sense regulations" on weapons. I'd go for a rule that says crew served weapons in private hands have to be kept in the custody of a regulated militia company, stored in a secure (but no more secure than the regs specify for a National Guard armory holding similar classes of weapons) armory except when being used for training purposes, etc. But all personal arms should be legal for any citizen allowed to vote. Especially any personal arm issued by ANY branch of the U.S. Government to military or law enforcement personnel. If you are declaring someone unfit to bear arms for whatever reason it better be important enough to yank their voter registration card too. That will tend to limit the overuse of mental defect judgements, vets with PTSD, minor crimes and accusations (but not convictions) of domestic violence from being leveraged by evil Democrats into lifetime bans.

                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2018, @08:17AM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2018, @08:17AM (#647553)

                      You could make a fair argument that that treaty limits the US government, but that the right of the people is not abridged.
                      Not saying I am in favor of it, but that's what the constitution says. Instead of increasingly ridiculous assertions about what words mean, they need to amend the 2nd amendment.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2018, @05:31AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2018, @05:31AM (#647493)

                  The Constitution does not say "You have the right to a blog", "You have the right to lighted signs", nor "You have the right to high capacity printing presses". "Speech" to the Founding Fathers were single impression printing presses and quill pens. They would be horrified at the level of communication we can achieve today. These nutbags in the EFF want everyone to carry smart phones to make everything "selfies". That is just insane.

            • (Score: 2) by black6host on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:23AM (2 children)

              by black6host (3827) on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:23AM (#646996) Journal

              Let's not forget that a whole lot of folks just don't like being told what to do. I'm one of them.

              • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Saturday March 03 2018, @10:44PM (1 child)

                by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Saturday March 03 2018, @10:44PM (#647311) Homepage
                You prefer anarchy? How advanced of you.
                --
                Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2018, @12:06AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2018, @12:06AM (#647348)

                  Anarchy: the radical concept that while I do not own you, neither do you own me.

            • (Score: 2, Interesting) by theCoder on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:36AM (28 children)

              by theCoder (3583) on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:36AM (#647004)

              True, most of the second amendment proponents like guns. And most of the gun prohibitionists do not like guns. They also tend not to like the people who like guns, and often make fun of them ("rednecks" and the like).

              More people die from car accidents than from guns, but there's no push to ban cars (note: guns are probably more dangerous on a per-item basis than cars, but more people use cars than guns). Distracted driving is even more dangerous, but there's no push to ban cell phones, even though there are laws about using phones and driving at the same time.

              While not directly responsible, the media's almost glorification of mass shootings may be encouraging some of these deranged killers. Who knows if the teacher in this story was influenced by that. But there's no push for gutting the first amendment and heavily regulating the media, either.

              Why are none of those things being pushed? Because lots of people like cars, cell phones, and their free speech rights. So, shocker, they don't want to take those away. But many people don't have, and likely fear, guns, so banning guns doesn't affect them negatively.

              Personally, I'm not a fan of guns in the specific. I've never held one, never shot one. Only in video games, and that doesn't count. But I do worry about banning guns, for a number of reasons. First is that we have a horrible track record with bans. Alcohol, drugs, gambling -- bans just never seem to work. Crime rises as people find ways to get the banned items regardless of the law. You could point to other countries banning guns working, but I could point to other countries banning alcohol (many Middle Eastern countries) also working. But Prohibition did not work in the U.S. all that well. Though, maybe that's because we also had guns :)

              Second, I also worry that more bans just take us further down the path to authoritarianism. Telling everyone what they can and cannot do, own, say, and think. There are many people who see that as a utopia, but it's not for me. I value my freedom. I hope it never comes to pass that we really need an armed resistance in the U.S., but if it does, I want it to be an option.

              btw, all those gun massacres are reported in the news because they are rare. They don't report the thousands of car accidents or millions of heart attacks because they are common. That said, only the "big" rare events are really reported -- there are many more events like the story above where no one is hurt that aren't reported more than locally.

              • (Score: 3, Interesting) by AthanasiusKircher on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:07PM (5 children)

                by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:07PM (#647013) Journal

                You make a lot of reasonable points. But you do realize that there are possible other positions other than "allow all possible guns to be acquired without regulation, training, etc. by all possible people" vs. just "banning guns" completely?

                While there are some people who want to ban all ownership of firearms, a large number of people calling for regulation want to create more reasonable limits on what types of guns can be acquired easily, where they can be reasonably carried, what sort of training we might reasonably ask people to have to own or carry a gun (drivers require licenses...), etc.

                Obviously many people disagree about what is "reasonable" here. But while few are calling for BANNING cell phone or cars or whatever, there are plenty of folks who wonder if we should have reasonable limits on when they can be used, training (for driving), etc. I'm not taking sides in the debate here -- just noting that this is one of those issues where false dichotomies are common. (Oh, and yes, there are slippery slope arguments too...)

                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday March 03 2018, @04:12PM

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday March 03 2018, @04:12PM (#647104) Journal

                  But you do realize that there are possible other positions other than "allow all possible guns to be acquired without regulation, training, etc. by all possible people" vs. just "banning guns" completely?

                  We already have one of those other positions. Didn't stop the shootings in the news.

                • (Score: 2) by deimtee on Sunday March 04 2018, @08:27AM (3 children)

                  by deimtee (3272) on Sunday March 04 2018, @08:27AM (#647555) Journal

                  Much like the two party system in the USA, the gun debate is now so polarized that no rational compromise is possible.
                  The anti-gunners have made the pro-gunners so wary of progressive changes that they will never allow the second amendment to be altered.
                  Without altering the second amendment, control of weapons is very limited.

                  --
                  If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
                  • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday March 04 2018, @04:37PM (2 children)

                    "rational compromise" is a fallacy to begin with when you're speaking of removing someone's fundamental rights for your sense of comfort.

                    --
                    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                    • (Score: 2) by deimtee on Sunday March 04 2018, @08:09PM (1 child)

                      by deimtee (3272) on Sunday March 04 2018, @08:09PM (#647707) Journal

                      QED.

                      A rational compromise might be to add a few exceptions to the 2ndA. No remote weapons, no crew served weapons, nutcases not included, maximum rate of fire/magazine size, etc. This list should be debateable, but it is not.
                      Anti-gunners want much more restriction, pro-gunners don't trust them to touch the 2ndA at all.

                      --
                      If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
              • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Arik on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:17PM

                by Arik (4543) on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:17PM (#647019) Journal
                "While not directly responsible, the media's almost glorification of mass shootings may be encouraging some of these deranged killers."

                May be? May be? Really? You think? Just a sort of a vague possibility is it?

                This is exactly why people do this. They're people who are simply inconsequential and can't stand knowing that fact, but they know that if they go shoot up a school then the media will talk about them for days and wikipedia will consider them "notable."
                --
                If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
              • (Score: 3, Informative) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:19PM (5 children)

                by GreatAuntAnesthesia (3275) on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:19PM (#647020) Journal

                (reposting this in the correct place)

                Because lots of people like cars, cell phones,

                I think it's more that those things are useful. Yeah, cars kill lots of people every year. But they save way more lives than they take - I'm not just talking about direct life-savings like ambulances and fire-engines and so on, I'm talking about all the efficiency that cars bring to society and the economy. Without cars or something similar, it would be about impossible for people to collaborate the the extent that they do to create, distribute and enjoy the myriad other technologies and goods that make our lives longer, safer and happier. Cars cost lives, but that is the cost of not living with Victorian-level industry, healthcare and society. Phones, to a far lesser extent, do the same (and their cost in lives is proportionally less as well).

                Guns in the hands of civilians are useful for hunting (only really good for recreation these days), for shooting agricultural pests, and that's about their total contribution to society. You can't compare guns to cars.

                • (Score: 2, Informative) by khallow on Saturday March 03 2018, @04:18PM (1 child)

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday March 03 2018, @04:18PM (#647107) Journal

                  Guns in the hands of civilians are useful for hunting (only really good for recreation these days), for shooting agricultural pests, and that's about their total contribution to society.

                  And of course, the big one, self-defense! It's like listing several minor advantages of cars, but failing to mention their primary value as point to point transportation.

                  • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday March 04 2018, @12:31AM

                    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 04 2018, @12:31AM (#647365) Journal

                    Exactly - and we all need to remember that the second amendment was never about hunting.

                • (Score: 2) by mhajicek on Saturday March 03 2018, @05:15PM

                  by mhajicek (51) on Saturday March 03 2018, @05:15PM (#647138)

                  A couple weeks ago, a few blocks from my house, an armed passer by saved the lives of people trapped in their crashed cars by shooting the knife wielding road rager that was trying to break in and stab them. This is a good thing, and I'm very glad my state is shall issue for carry permits.

                  --
                  The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
                • (Score: 3, Insightful) by PinkyGigglebrain on Saturday March 03 2018, @06:35PM (1 child)

                  by PinkyGigglebrain (4458) on Saturday March 03 2018, @06:35PM (#647168)

                  Just a quick question.

                  If your home gets broken into while you are there what will you do during the 15-30 minutes it will take for police to arrive after your call them?

                  Assuming that the police even show up [freerepublic.com] that is.

                  --
                  "Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
                  • (Score: 2) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Sunday March 04 2018, @11:13AM

                    by GreatAuntAnesthesia (3275) on Sunday March 04 2018, @11:13AM (#647584) Journal

                    Really not an issue for me since I don't live in a violent dystopia where the ubiquity of guns has escalated every confrontation into a shoot out. I mean two posts up from here there's a guy who saw a traffic dispute escalate into a hostage situation and gun battle. That's damn near unthinkable in any sane society.

                    The chances of an armed, violent intruder breaking into my home are non-zero, but negligible enough that I don't need to bring a weapon into my home. It would be like getting some kind of highly-dangerous electrocution machine to protect me against lightning strikes.

                    Life comes with risks. Live with it.

              • (Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Saturday March 03 2018, @03:22PM (12 children)

                by maxwell demon (1608) on Saturday March 03 2018, @03:22PM (#647084) Journal

                More people die from car accidents than from guns, but there's no push to ban cars

                But cars are regulated, in that you are not allowed to drive a car if you don't have a driving license, which you only get after making a test showing that you know something about correctly and responsibly operating a car, and if you are later found to show unacceptable behaviour with your car, you can get that driving license revoked.

                --
                The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
                • (Score: 2, Informative) by khallow on Saturday March 03 2018, @04:19PM (9 children)

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday March 03 2018, @04:19PM (#647110) Journal
                  Firearms are regulated too. It's dishonest to claim as has been repeatedly claimed in this overall discussion that we're operating in a regulatory vacuum where anyone can buy anything and do whatever they want with those firearms.
                  • (Score: 2) by Eristone on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:54PM (8 children)

                    by Eristone (4775) on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:54PM (#647339)

                    So -- being we keep up with this whole firearms are regulated bit...

                    Are you required to get a license (or permit) before you purchase any firearm?
                    Are you required to register each firearm purchased with the state at time of purchase and pay a fee based on the type of firearm it is?
                    Are you required to re-register your firearm each year with the state, and pay a fee each year?
                    Are you required to purchase insurance for each firearm and keep it current as long as you own the firearm?
                    Can your firearm license/permit be restricted or revoked because of actions you may have done that do not directly involve the firearm?
                    Are you required to have your firearm inspected every few years for operations and safety?
                    Are you required to renew your firearm permit/license every few years?

                    • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday March 04 2018, @12:33AM (4 children)

                      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 04 2018, @12:33AM (#647367) Journal

                      None of the above.

                      Owning a firearm is a right, guaranteed by the second amendment.

                      Owning a vehicle is a privilege, with no guarantees.

                      • (Score: 2) by Eristone on Sunday March 04 2018, @01:24AM (3 children)

                        by Eristone (4775) on Sunday March 04 2018, @01:24AM (#647400)

                        Noting even in the text of the Constitution, there is nothing preventing regulating the ownership of firearms. It is not an absolute right.

                        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday March 04 2018, @06:22AM (2 children)

                          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 04 2018, @06:22AM (#647518) Journal

                          The regulation was well understood, when the amendment was written. The "well regulated militia" consisted of all able bodied males, between the ages of 18 and 40 (I think that was the age cutoff, it has changed over the years). The militia was intended to drill together, and to understand troop movements, formations, and small unit tactics. That was the "regulation".

                          If we were to go back to universal conscription, company commanders would quickly learn to recognize reliable militia members, and unreliable. Those company commander's reports would become part of the member's records. Those unreliable members could be prevented from owning firearms, or participating in company maneuvers. And, best of all - those reliable members would also be aware of who the unreliables are. That is - if a crazy went over the edge, any reliable member of the militia would be in a much better position to DO SOMETHING.

                          Yes, please, let us return to the concept of a well regulated militia.

                          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday March 04 2018, @06:37AM (1 child)

                            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 04 2018, @06:37AM (#647523) Journal

                            If we were to go back to universal conscription, company commanders would quickly learn to recognize reliable militia members, and unreliable.

                            Why would that be valuable to us? Those company commanders could have real jobs instead. And when you have people involved in the make-work of conscription, they're not contributing to society.

                            My view instead is that people who have a lot of experience with the sort of firearms an infantry squad would use (and that includes firearms that look cool, aka "assault weapons"), would be far better able to contribute to the "well-regulated militia" should the need for one arise. And that's as far as the Second Amendment goes. It doesn't, for example, actually mandate the existence of any well-regulated militia nor require someone to belong to one before they can own firearms.

                            • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday March 04 2018, @08:35AM

                              by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 04 2018, @08:35AM (#647558) Journal

                              The company commanders have real jobs. He might run the dollar store, or he might be a lawyer, or he might be your banker. "All able bodied men". And, "militia" isn't a full time job. It's kind of an extracurricular activity, mandated for all of those "able bodied men". One weekend a month is set aside - pretty much the same as our current setup for reservists. One weekend each month, and maybe a week each summer, possibly two to four weeks. And, they come home from maneuvers at camp, and go back to work again.

                              It would take a small change to existing law to mandate universal conscription. It would be a much smaller change than trying to write myriad laws about who is allowed to own which weapons.

                    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday March 04 2018, @12:55AM (1 child)

                      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 04 2018, @12:55AM (#647379) Journal
                      Why would we want to do most of those things, unless we were interested more in preventing people from owning firearms than in regulating them? Almost none of that has any utility as regulation. Imagine if we had the same "regulation" on voting or public speech.
                      • (Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Sunday March 04 2018, @05:49AM

                        by maxwell demon (1608) on Sunday March 04 2018, @05:49AM (#647504) Journal

                        It means that the car analogy is flawed.

                        --
                        The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
                    • (Score: 2) by jmorris on Sunday March 04 2018, @07:14AM

                      by jmorris (4844) on Sunday March 04 2018, @07:14AM (#647540)

                      Mind if I reject your premise? I don't agree with the legitimate need for the government to regulate cars to the extent they do either. Requiring a proficiency test of drivers is probably serving a legitimate purpose since you can cause a lot of harm to others. But the constant fees? And moving to no-fault insurance eliminates the need to mandate auto insurance... which is why the industry hates it, they love a government enforced monopoly. The registration fees is merely another tax, always love eliminating taxes. And guess what, even the NRA doesn't object to the concept of requiring a test of proficiency and the laws regarding firearm use before issuing a CCW.

                      Note that is for a CCW, not basic possession. But optimally it wouldn't be required as every school should return to teaching such things. Every child should learn how to safely use a pistol and a basic rifle, the basics of marksmanship and the law regarding self defense (with a gun, knife, even fists). Then we could forget licenses all together and adopt Constitutional Carry. With harsh penalties for those barred from possession being caught with one.

                      What we will not accept is registration of our weapons, every single time that happens a confiscation attempt comes within a few years. Every time, every country that has did one. So what part of NEVER AGAIN do the gun banners miss after we have told them a thousand times now?

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2018, @02:06AM (1 child)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2018, @02:06AM (#647414)

                  Well in California the govt had to give in and allow illegals to get drivers licenses. The
                  system couldn't deal with all the rule breakers.

                  Also we still must have insurance for uninsured drivers.

                  So just because there are rules does not mean that a problem is solved.

                  I could easily go drive without a license and without insurance and without registration and
                  it is not certain that I would get caught. I've driven without registration and with an expired
                  license (because of CA DMV BS), but with insurance and can say it is possible.

                  • (Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Sunday March 04 2018, @05:57AM

                    by maxwell demon (1608) on Sunday March 04 2018, @05:57AM (#647511) Journal

                    The question of illegals is a red herring because whether you're legally or illegally in the US is in no way related to whether you are able to safely and responsibly operate a car.

                    On the other points: Yes, it is possible to violate a law, and it is possible that you are never caught. There are murderers who are never caught (indeed, almost certainly some murders are never even recognized as such). So would you say that the laws against murder don't work, and therefore should be abolished?

                    --
                    The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
              • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @04:52PM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @04:52PM (#647132)

                How ISN'T it an option to have an armed resistance, regardless the existence of the second amendment? The only thing you're resisting is government, which by definition is sedition/treason ANYWAY. The second amendment does NOT protect you from the illegalities perpetrated by armed resistance in the event such resistance fails to overthrow the current government.

                The whole "you can't tell me what to do" thing is part of the root of your countries' problems, aka narcissism.
                Greed created the situation where both parents HAD to work, the result being kids aren't being raised properly.
                The politically correct, like always, knee-jerk reacts to children being disciplined in a corporal manner, and now we have three generations of western humanity that doesn't respect, or have any empathy for fellow people.

            • (Score: 3, Informative) by Arik on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:06PM (3 children)

              by Arik (4543) on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:06PM (#647012) Journal
              The underlying fallacy behind your position is the simplistic idea that politics consists simply in give and take between popularly held positions as updated on a moment by moment basis in response to "current events" (a codename for yellow journalism.)

              I say simplistic, rather than simply wrong, because of course no one can deny that this is large part of politics.

              But I'm happy to be able to say it isn't quite all of it.

              And no matter how many schools you shoot up there's a significant portion of the country that isn't going to be panicked into begging you to become dictator in response. Because they see how this logic works, how it has worked consistently.

              This is the 'dialogue,' the 'compromise' when it comes to rights.

              We start with a big cake, let's call it 'second amendment rights.'

              Then along come the victim-disarmament activists. They say "Give us the cake!"

              "No. It's my cake. I like it. You can't have it. Don't come any closer!"

              VDA: "Ok, ok, don't shoot! Be reasonable. Let's compromise. Just give me half."

              US: "What? Give you half? And what do I get out of it?"

              VDA: "Well, you get to keep the other half! Plus less cake violence, who doesn't want that?"

              US: "Well, OK, I guess you convinced me.

              *Enter various unconstitutional restrictions culminating in the  National Firearms Act of 1934*

              VDA: "Hey, give me that cake!"

              US: "No, this is my cake. What's left of it, at least, you! Go away!"

              VDA: "Hey, hey, don't shoot! Be reasonable. Let's compromise. Give me half of that."

              US: "Compromise? Again? What's in it for me?"

              VDA: "You can keep the other half! And less cake violence, who doesn't want that?"

              (In fact there does not appear to have been any actual decrease in cake violence due to the earlier compromises, but reliable statistics really hadn't begun to be kept and so this fact was not noted as it should have been.)

              *Enter Gun Control Act of 1968*

              US: "Hmm, well, I only have a quarter of the pie left, but they promised they'd never bother us again, so I guess it's worth it. Let's go to the range!"

              US: "Uhoh, what's *that one* doing here again?"

              *VDA does not bother to ask or argue, simply grabs the cake, inserts it orally, and rips off several bites which are swallowed whole.*

              *Enter Clinton Executive Orders.*

              US: "Ermagerd! I can't believe she just did that!"

              *VDA, having choked down the majority of the initial bites, has started slowly sucking/slurping up icing around the edge of the remaining cake.*

              *Enter Lautenberg Act, HUD/Smith, Wesson agreement, School Safety and Law Enforcment Improvement Act*

              US: "HOW RUDE!"

              *US stalks off and the camera fades, to return to a view of US and VDA once again facing off*

              VDA: "Give us cake! Why won't you be reasonable? Why won't you compromise? Extremist! Hate! Hate!! HATRED!!!"

              US: "Go away, we're wise to you. We started out with a nice big cake we could share with everyone and now we're hording a few fragments and crumbs. And half of them have your spit on them. Enough. Go away!"

              *Enter Columbine, etc.*

              VDA: "See? It's a big problem. GIVE US CAKE! HOW MANY OF YOUR KIDS DO WE HAVE TO KILL TO GET A LITTLE CAKE YOU ASSHOLES?"

              --
              If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
              • (Score: 2, Insightful) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:26PM (1 child)

                by GreatAuntAnesthesia (3275) on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:26PM (#647022) Journal

                we're hording a few fragments and crumbs.

                You're kidding, right? You Americans are wandering about with military-level armaments and you call that fragments and crumbs?

                VDA: "See? It's a big problem. GIVE US CAKE! HOW MANY OF YOUR KIDS DO WE HAVE TO KILL TO GET A LITTLE CAKE YOU ASSHOLES?"

                Again, you seem to be implying that the anti-gun people are carrying out the murders.
                Tell me, do you also believe that Greenpeace are hunting whales, the Vegan Society runs McDonalds and CND has a nuclear weapons program?

                • (Score: 1, Troll) by Arik on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:45PM

                  by Arik (4543) on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:45PM (#647027) Journal
                  "You're kidding, right? You Americans are wandering about with military-level armaments and you call that fragments and crumbs?"

                  Please, tell me about the "military grade armament" that we wander freely about with?

                  Do you have any idea what you have to do in order to legally acquire and possess any actual "military grade armaments" in the US today?

                  Clearly you do not.

                  "Again, you seem to be implying that the anti-gun people are carrying out the murders."

                  see the other reply, but;

                  "Tell me, do you also believe that Greenpeace are hunting whales"

                  IIRC they have been implicated in the torture of kangaroos, is that close enough for you?

                  "the Vegan Society runs McDonalds"

                  That's a new one to me so I have no comment, but again it seems to remind me of something similar.

                  There's a long-standing legend that 'the Mormons forbid Coke but they own it!"

                  Now that's not totally true, but it's not totally false either.

                  First, the LDDS Church won't kick you out for drinking a coke, that parts false. But it's sort of a recognizable exaggeration of the truth nonetheless. Caffeine, any sort of stimulant use, is frowned upon, not forbidden. Many, probably most LDDS members are 'Jack Mormons' and they often do many things that are frowned upon regularly. As long as they send in their dues and aren't looking to move up in the hierarchy it doesn't matter. I'm sure they are not the only religion to work that way.

                  So, caffeine is frowned upon, not actually forbidden, let's call that exaggeration, possibly misunderstanding. But does the CJC-LDS own Coke? Well, no, that doesn't seem to be exactly true either, Coke is even bigger than you can imagine and has lots and lots of owners and I've seen no indication that CJC-LDS is a particularly large stockholder.

                  But again, probably not so much false as exaggeration/distortion/misunderstanding. Because they own a LOT of stock, very diversified, I don't know they own Coke stock but I shouldn't be surprised if they do.

                  And you know what they DO own, or at least did own some years ago when this rumor was common? Regional bottlers. Where the Coke comes from. Where the local businesses send the money to pay for the Coke they sell to all the Jack Mormons that get a thrill out of the little 'sin' of drinking some caffeine.

                  So you ask me, "is the Vegan Society tied in some way or another to McDonalds?"

                  *Shrug* Wouldn't surprise me.

                  --
                  If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
              • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday March 03 2018, @10:24PM

                by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday March 03 2018, @10:24PM (#647302) Journal

                Nice imagery you painted there.
                To complement those bits of cake, do you also have, as a side, a chart on how many firearms got in the hands of population over time?
                Latest number floated says there are about 300M of them, one for every person in US, kids included.

                --
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday March 03 2018, @03:09PM (10 children)

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday March 03 2018, @03:09PM (#647073) Journal

              What I don't get is that you guys have been having some kind of gun massacre on what seems like a weekly basis for years now

              So what? What should be the frequency of gun massacres before we compromise the freedom of 340 million people? I think it should be a lot more frequent than a measly once a weeks or fewer.

              the gun nuts are only really fighting this hard for their guns because they like guns.

              And that's good enough. We don't live in a world where people have rights only when their motives and interests are the Best Really.

              • (Score: 2) by mhajicek on Saturday March 03 2018, @05:21PM (9 children)

                by mhajicek (51) on Saturday March 03 2018, @05:21PM (#647141)

                It's also completely false, unless you count non-injurious accidental discharge by a police officer on school grounds as a "School Shooting", which for the purposes of statistics the media does.

                --
                The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
                • (Score: 3, Insightful) by dry on Saturday March 03 2018, @05:45PM (8 children)

                  by dry (223) on Saturday March 03 2018, @05:45PM (#647148) Journal

                  How the fuck is a police officer accidentally firing their weapon anywhere?
                  I'd expect police to have firearms training as part of their job and a trained person not to be playing with their weapon, especially on school grounds.

                  • (Score: 1) by tftp on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:37PM (5 children)

                    by tftp (806) on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:37PM (#647258) Homepage
                    Most of accidental/negligent discharges are caused by the police. They carry Glocks, but to disassemble this particular weapon for cleaning you have to do unsafe things. Also Glocks do not have an external safety button. They are safe from drops etc., but if you for any reason pull the trigger, there will be a bang. This can happen if, for example, you shove the gun into the holster with your finger still within the trigger guard. Glocks today are the best guns for war, but for the same reason they are not the safest for the police and other peaceful people.
                    • (Score: 2) by dry on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:48PM (4 children)

                      by dry (223) on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:48PM (#647262) Journal

                      Well, I'd think most people would agree that regulations requiring a safety is a bare minimum and even seems to be fine with the 2nd and having cops (or anyone) armed with such an unsafe weapon seems wrong to me.

                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @09:14PM (3 children)

                        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @09:14PM (#647270)

                        Rights - such as the right to keep and carry weapons - are not subject to government approval nor to majority opinion.

                        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @10:37PM (2 children)

                          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @10:37PM (#647307)

                          To most of the "progressives," rights are not inalienable nor granted by birthright, they are privileges bestowed by the government and only when it deems them as such. That's why we see so many lefties like the New York losers promoting sanctions for misgendering trannies, which clearly violates the 1st. It is very unfortunate that they are so goddamn stupid as to not see the obvious problems inherent when they themselves are eventually staring down the barrel of laws they won't like that are modeled after shit like this. The idiots never realize until it's too late that authoritarianism is a bad road to follow. Sooner or later, it takes a turn that you won't like.

                          • (Score: 2) by dry on Sunday March 04 2018, @03:37AM (1 child)

                            by dry (223) on Sunday March 04 2018, @03:37AM (#647465) Journal

                            Rights are not absolute. The famous example is how the right to swing your fist ends at my face. For speech, generally you are not allowed to scream all night in a residential area or put up signs in a dangerous way.
                            Having basic safety measures in a weapons design protects other peoples right to not be accidentally shot. Perhaps you don't consider that a right since it is not written down somewhere.
                            Rights are always a balance due to conflict between different rights.

                            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2018, @03:51PM

                              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2018, @03:51PM (#647635)

                              Rights are absolute. The only limit is the boundary of another human's rights, and there must be an actual trespass before a crime can be said to have occurred. Prior restraint is a crime.

                              Don't pay too much attention to the idiots in black robes - they're much more concerned about their pensions and long lives than they are the fundamental principles of human interactions with regards to rights.

                  • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday March 04 2018, @12:43AM (1 child)

                    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 04 2018, @12:43AM (#647371) Journal

                    First, training doesn't preclude stupid acts. Training only tends to decrease the likelihood f stupid acts.

                    Second, unlike most gunowners, a cop ALWAYS has a weapon at hand, vastly increasing the chances of a stupid act.

                    Third, we've all read the story of the guy who wanted to be a cop, and he was rejected because he was to smart.

                    Add that all up, and you have a metric butt load of less intelligent people who have a weapon at hand 24/7, just waiting for an excuse to have an accident.

                    • (Score: 2) by dry on Sunday March 04 2018, @03:23AM

                      by dry (223) on Sunday March 04 2018, @03:23AM (#647461) Journal

                      Still seems crazy to me, especially the part about cops using weapons with no safety. At that I'm somewhat surprised that weapons without a safety are allowed to be sold, little well allowed to be used by people who are always armed and hired for their stupidity.
                      Most dangerous tools are at least partially regulated for safety reasons. Buy a chainsaw and it will come with a chainbrake as well as a couple of defences against a broken chain (which can wrap around really quick and cause the lose of a hand).

            • (Score: 1) by Sulla on Saturday March 03 2018, @04:35PM (4 children)

              by Sulla (5173) on Saturday March 03 2018, @04:35PM (#647123) Journal

              Guns are liked less now, carried less now, with less of the population (as a percentage) than they were fifty or a hundred years ago, yet in the past ten years we have seen something never seen before in our history in regards to school shootings.

              Gun laws are stricter than they have been in the past (with exception of the short period of the awb that was more strict) and more shootings are happening. Overall crime I down but school crime is up. All the stats show that everything is getting better except for violence at schools. This is an issue that is happening because something is wrong with gen z and the millennials.

              So why? Those two generations will have a lower standard of living than the xers and boomers. When my dad bought the family house it cost him 1/4th is his income from working as maintenance at a cereal factory, it costs 3/4 my salary for the same house as an accountant. Cash for clunkers means there are fewer cheap cars out there to allow me to save money there. Jobs go overseas, become obsolite, or you have to compete with h1b, and then on top of all of this we have 70+k of school debt so we can get a job because nobody appears willing to hire without a degree. Then this god damn boomer meme about shaking a guys hand to get a job instead of being fucked by some hr department because they would rather not hire instead of accept someone without four years experience on an entry level job.

              Ritilin because parents and teachers were too lazy to raise us. Xanex and other benzos because its too much work to be a fuckin role model and want us to just shut up. Schools teaching us that we arent allowed to be proud of our history because we are all literal slave owners and nazis for things done by custer, jackson, lee, etc. That our system is corrupt and that we should try communism because its better than our republic and stalin was misunderstood.

              Boomers fucked our education, fucked us with meds, fucked us with our sense of person, and fucked our future. Maybe all the nihilism and deaths at schools are on the hands of our elders for being fucking worthless and failing their only role in society.

              Forgot about the national debt, thans for that too you skum.

              --
              Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday March 03 2018, @06:24PM

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday March 03 2018, @06:24PM (#647165) Journal

                Boomers fucked our education, fucked us with meds, fucked us with our sense of person, and fucked our future. Maybe all the nihilism and deaths at schools are on the hands of our elders for being fucking worthless and failing their only role in society.

                So what? When it's your turn to be the oldsters, the younger generations are going to complain. The key question will then be, will they have a valid reason for complaining? It's not looking so good. Your generation's only claim to morality is that it was born at the wrong time.

                it costs 3/4 my salary for the same house as an accountant.

                Then live where it doesn't cost that much, if home ownership is that important to you. Most of the US has really cheap real estate. Sure, you're not given the opportunities that the boomers (mostly the elder half) had, but it's still not that bad. Take advantage of that and adapt to the crap.

                I'll note here that this real estate mess probably has as much to do with income and wealth inequality as rich's peoples' capital doing better in a time of developing world labor competition. You get a pile of people in the wealthier urban areas restricting access to home ownership, then of course you're going to end up with a younger generation that has to either go without a home, spend an unusually high share of their income on home ownership, or live in a poorer region of the US. Mobility was one of the equalizers of human wealth, and it's in trouble [ssrn.com].

              • (Score: 1) by tftp on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:55PM

                by tftp (806) on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:55PM (#647265) Homepage
                School shootings are the result of too many social misfits who are angry at the society and want to hit it in the most painful way. Schools are the softest place of an attack. Often the shooters are students of that school, current or recent. School is an evil place to them (if not to everybody) because the right of association is severely violated there. Children of all kinds, from most timid to most war-like, are shoved in one can and closed tight. Why then you are surprised that those timid children soon want to shoot their tormentors, blow up the school or the whole planet? They do that because they cannot get away from their enemies - and children are heartless, like animals, in both attack and defense. Not sure why all this would be a surprise - this is obvious to any observer. Schools will be always a breeding ground of domestic terrorism until they stop being an instrument of politicians and become an instrument of teachers. Quiet students, good learners should be safely separated from budding criminals. Do that, and never a student will plan an attack on his [former] school. This will get rid of what, 99% of the school shooters?
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:02PM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:02PM (#647321)

                So why? Those two generations will have a lower standard of living than the xers and boomers. When my dad bought the family house it cost him 1/4th is his income from working as maintenance at a cereal factory, it costs 3/4 my salary for the same house as an accountant. Cash for clunkers means there are fewer cheap cars out there to allow me to save money there. Jobs go overseas, become obsolite, or you have to compete with h1b, and then on top of all of this we have 70+k of school debt so we can get a job because nobody appears willing to hire without a degree.

                Well maybe when you grow up a bit and a few more of your millennial brethren start voting for someone besides Hillary, you might stand a chance to fix the income inequality problem. I'll even help you a bit. It's not about giving McDonald's burger flippers $15 an hour. Tax the living fuck out of the uber rich like fifty years ago. Bring back 90% marginal rates on the highest incomes. Pass income limits on publicly traded companies as a ratio of max to mins. Tax stock options value as income payable when it vests. Tax capital gains as ordinary income. That'll fix your national debt problem too. Get your lazy emo asses out and vote for Bernie or someone like him. Don't whine like a pussy and bemoan your shitty existence.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2018, @04:07AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2018, @04:07AM (#647473)

                  It's too late for an income tax to fix it. The wealth disparity is already there and is not going away at any rate of income tax.
                  The only way to reduce it now is to tax assets. Some n% of everything over $x million, every year.
                  n and x are open to debate but that, or pitchforks and torches, are the only ways you are going to reduce the gini coefficient now.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @05:54PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @05:54PM (#647154)

              OK I will deny it. I own exactly 0 guns. No need for them in my life. Yet I want people to own them. The constitution does not give rights. It holds back the government. THAT is its design. Go read the thing. It is pretty clear on all points telling how to leave the people alone.

              Want to reduce gun violence? It is dead easy. Hell it is even IN the constitution how to do so. You arm people and show them how to use the things. How to respect the weapons. Notice the 2a also calls out a well regulated militia. Regulated in this context means training as prescribed by congress and the states, as called out in the section that declares what congress is supposed to do. Our congress has abdicated its role. It has instead decided regulated means how many bullets are in a magazine and weather the grip should be plastic or wood.

              People always ask what is your zombie plan. For 99.9999% of the population it is 'brainz'. A good portion of the population have no idea how to use a gun and what it means to own one. They are scared of them because the news tells them to be OMG HELL AND DAMNATION IS COMING FOR YOU BECAUSE OF THE BLACK SCARY GUNS. When the truth is our politicians want to disarm us. Yet somehow they are magically exempt from that. Take 2016 presidential nominee Hillary Clinton. She has a cadre of very well armed people around her at all times. Yet the rest of us can 'eat cake'.

        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:08PM (11 children)

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:08PM (#647014) Homepage Journal

          paranoia about the "Second Amendment" as some kind of "God given right".

          We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

          Did that clear it up or do you need someone to explain to you that you also have a fundamental right to protect the above rights when necessary? I mean, I'd think that would be so blindingly obvious that nobody could fail to understand it but hey...

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 2) by dry on Saturday March 03 2018, @05:50PM (10 children)

            by dry (223) on Saturday March 03 2018, @05:50PM (#647152) Journal

            So you agree that to protect life, arms should be regulated. Hard to have the liberty to pursue happiness without life.

            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday March 03 2018, @06:25PM (9 children)

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday March 03 2018, @06:25PM (#647167) Journal
              What makes you think that firearms aren't already sufficiently well regulated?
              • (Score: 2) by dry on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:01PM (8 children)

                by dry (223) on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:01PM (#647192) Journal

                The discussion on this page.

                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:15PM (7 children)

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:15PM (#647205) Journal
                  There would be discussion anyway. Evidence distinguishes between hypotheses.
                  • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:46PM

                    by aristarchus (2645) on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:46PM (#647226) Journal

                    Truly, friend khallow, you are an idiot.

                  • (Score: 2) by dry on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:52PM (5 children)

                    by dry (223) on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:52PM (#647232) Journal

                    Where did I say that arms aren't currently well enough regulated? I did say, "arms should be regulated" without any comment on how much and whether the current regulations are enough.

                    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday March 04 2018, @12:47AM (4 children)

                      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 04 2018, @12:47AM (#647373) Journal

                      I did say, "arms should be regulated" without any comment on how much and whether the current regulations are enough.

                      Sorry, that's heavily implied. Nobody in the discussion was speaking of removing most or all firearm regulation - so why bring it up? After all, rules against murdering people should exist as well, but no one ever needs to point it out except when employing high levels of snark.

                      • (Score: 2) by dry on Sunday March 04 2018, @04:06AM (3 children)

                        by dry (223) on Sunday March 04 2018, @04:06AM (#647472) Journal

                        I just had an AC scream at me for suggesting that a reasonable regulation is firearms having a safety as the right to be armed is absolute and overrides all other rights. So yes, there are people who are not fine with any regulations on firearms.
                        I'm not American and don't consider owning and using a firearm to be any more then a right then owning and driving an automobile. To me it is reasonable expecting people to have some understanding of firearm safety (first time I owned a rifle, I got the neighbour, a WWII/Korean war vet, to give me a few hours instruction as I knew very little). Some arms shouldn't be sold and it should take a judge to remove that privilege.
                        What really scares me about the land of the free is regulations removing the right of owning a firearm from whole chunks of the population, basically using laws, aka letters of attainment. Accused of certain crimes, no arms for you. Any chance of mental instability, no arms for you. Went to jail for something unrelated to firearm violence or even any type of violence, no arms ever for you. That's insane regulations, not having a safety or requiring a couple of ounces of pressure to fire a weapon seems sane.
                        If you're going to have a Constitutional right for people to be armed, honour it. Other then a court order, and not a rubber stamp either, all people are allowed to be armed.

                        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday March 04 2018, @05:38AM (2 children)

                          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 04 2018, @05:38AM (#647498) Journal

                          I just had an AC scream at me for suggesting that a reasonable regulation is firearms having a safety as the right to be armed is absolute and overrides all other rights. So yes, there are people who are not fine with any regulations on firearms.

                          Not in this thread you didn't. I'm not that AC, I don't answer for it. Plus I read through your posts and don't see this alleged AC in reply to any of those posts. Let us also keep in mind that safeties are not perfect nor are the people who use firearms. If one treats a firearm as always loaded with a round in the chamber and the safety off or broken, then one is far less likely to be unpleasantly surprised by the firearm accidentally going off.

                          What really scares me about the land of the free is regulations removing the right of owning a firearm from whole chunks of the population, basically using laws, aka letters of attainment. Accused of certain crimes, no arms for you. Any chance of mental instability, no arms for you. Went to jail for something unrelated to firearm violence or even any type of violence, no arms ever for you. That's insane regulations, not having a safety or requiring a couple of ounces of pressure to fire a weapon seems sane.

                          I agree that is a problem. It is also an indication that gun control advocates often have ulterior motives.

                          • (Score: 2) by dry on Sunday March 04 2018, @06:52AM (1 child)

                            by dry (223) on Sunday March 04 2018, @06:52AM (#647532) Journal

                            https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=24366&page=1&cid=647270#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] read the parent as well.

                            You're right about safeties not being perfect, but they're better then the alternative and to me seem a reasonable regulation along with strongly encouraging never having a bullet in the chamber.
                            The thread was originally about a cop accidentally discharging his weapon in a school, not good for police to be using weapons without safeties and not a good representation of their training or presuming no meaningful punishment, the whole culture.

                            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday March 04 2018, @07:29AM

                              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 04 2018, @07:29AM (#647545) Journal
                              The thing is, I read that post. I don't agree with your characterization of it. Sure, the insistence on the "right" is bizarrely off key given that you didn't actually say anything to dispute the existence of the right, but it's not

                              You're right about safeties not being perfect, but they're better then the alternative and to me seem a reasonable regulation along with strongly encouraging never having a bullet in the chamber.

                              And what would be the enforcement mechanisms for this regulation? We can already show a high degree of negligence in court, for example, if someone causes damage or injury from accidentally firing a weapon because they had the safety off and a bullet chambered. Regulation isn't required for that.

                              But if we're going to stop people on the street or go into their homes, in order to inspect their firearms, that's a very intrusive step which I don't agree is justified.

                              Insistence on safety equipment is also being exploited as a means to suppress firearm ownership, for example, mandating trigger-locks, excessive gun safe standards, DNA bullets, and other frivolous but costly safety devices and procedures. That incidentally is another reason gun rights advocates often oppose even simple-sounding safety procedures. Because it is a pretext to insert more costly and intrusive obstacles later on. All such safety equipment and procedures needs to be bypassed in order to use the firearm. Not much of a problem if one is merely shooting for entertainment, but a very big deal, if one is using that firearm in self-defense.

        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday March 04 2018, @12:22AM

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 04 2018, @12:22AM (#647361) Journal

          Ahhhhhh - I see. And, the democrats haven't changed, of course. Democrats epitomize stability, rationality, and reason, right?

          You are just another stinky partisan shit, with nothing of value to add to the conversation.

      • (Score: 4, Interesting) by c0lo on Saturday March 03 2018, @10:57AM (20 children)

        by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday March 03 2018, @10:57AM (#646988) Journal

        At some point we really need to ask the deeper question. What has went wrong with our society? I remember seeing the parking lot at the high school during hunting season and most of the trucks had a gun rack and there would be a rifle or shotgun it it. This was not considered dangerous or unusual. Something changed and it wasn't for the better.

        You really don't know what happened? Really, really?
        All the money got accumulated to the top, letting the rest without too many opportunities to realize their "American dream".
        If they are awake, they see no hope. If they are still trying to dream it, it morphed into the American nightmare.

        --
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
        • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:28PM (19 children)

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:28PM (#647023) Homepage Journal

          Having everything you ever wanted simply for going to work is not the American Dream; it's the Soviet Dream. The American Dream requires, and has always required, the willingness to produce work of noteworthy value for your fellow man. If you're making less than twice minimum wage as an adult, you've failed miserably in that.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 5, Informative) by c0lo on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:44PM (10 children)

            by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:44PM (#647026) Journal

            The American Dream requires, and has always required, the willingness to produce work of noteworthy value for your fellow man.

            And the American Nightmare is when, in spite of willingness and effort, you can't get ahead.
            Because, you see, the money are vacuumed from the market faster than you can... mmm... "dream".

            --
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
            • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:52PM (4 children)

              by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:52PM (#647030) Homepage Journal

              Effort is not part of the equation. Never has been. Producing something of value to others is.

              If you inherit a legacy job from your grandfather polishing a brass cannon out in front of the courthouse, you would be ill advised to buy your own cannon and go into business for yourself just because you don't like your wages.

              --
              My rights don't end where your fear begins.
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @02:19PM (3 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @02:19PM (#647051)

                Producing something of value, like what? How about loaves of bread? That has value to others. Probably doesn't pay much and you can work your ass off at it and not get too far ahead.

                • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday March 03 2018, @06:54PM (2 children)

                  by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Saturday March 03 2018, @06:54PM (#647188) Homepage Journal

                  Feel free to throw the word "significant" in my previous statement where it applies. Nit-picking over non-zero but still trivial values is disingenuous at best.

                  --
                  My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2018, @05:37PM (1 child)

                    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2018, @05:37PM (#647677)

                    Insignificant? Try going without food. Let me know how "important" it is to you after a few days. Your holier-than-thou facade is what is disingenuous, my friend.

            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday March 03 2018, @03:14PM (4 children)

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday March 03 2018, @03:14PM (#647076) Journal

              Because, you see, the money are vacuumed from the market faster than you can... mmm... "dream".

              Complete bullshit. For starters, that's not happening. Second, the world is not zero sum. Just because someone is doing better doesn't mean that they're the reason you're doing worse. Let us recall that you could have invested in the stock market way back when (use a broad index-based fund, you're probably shit at investing), and be sharing in that "vacuuming" that you claim is going on.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @10:57PM (3 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @10:57PM (#647318)

                disillusioned US citizen: I barely have enough bread.
                khallow: but if you invest your cake, it will only grown bigger

                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday March 04 2018, @01:18AM (2 children)

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 04 2018, @01:18AM (#647394) Journal

                  disillusioned US citizen: I barely have enough bread.

                  They could start by selling their laptop, amirite?

                  khallow: but if you invest your cake, it will only grown bigger

                  Saying it in a mocking voice, doesn't make it less true.

                  • (Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Sunday March 04 2018, @06:09AM

                    by maxwell demon (1608) on Sunday March 04 2018, @06:09AM (#647514) Journal

                    They could start by selling their laptop, amirite?

                    You mean, to further reduce their chances to get anywhere?

                    And that's assuming they have a laptop in the first place.

                    --
                    The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2018, @11:00AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2018, @11:00AM (#647579)

                    khallow: but if you invest your cake, it will only grown bigger

                    Saying it in a mocking voice, doesn't make it less true.

                    Yes, the Earth orbits the Sun. No, seriously, it does.
                    Too bad this is also irrelevant to the disillusioned US citizen.

          • (Score: 3, Informative) by dry on Saturday March 03 2018, @06:09PM (7 children)

            by dry (223) on Saturday March 03 2018, @06:09PM (#647158) Journal

            America has some of the first worlds shittiest odds of being able to better yourselves economically. Somewhere I saw that it is 4 times easier to move from the bottom quintuple to the top quintuple of earners in Canada then America. I can't find that study right now but from [URL:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_mobility#Worldwide>

            In recent years several large studies have found that vertical inter-generational mobility is lower in the United States than in most developed countries.[13] A 1996 paper by Daniel P. McMurrer, Isabel V. Sawhill found "mobility rates seem to be quite similar across countries."[14] However a more recent paper (2007) found a person's parents is a great deal more predictive of their own income in the United States than other countries.[7] The United States had about 1/3 the ratio of mobility of Denmark and less than half that of Canada, Finland and Norway.[3] France, Germany, Sweden, also had higher mobility, with only the United Kingdom being less mobile.

            In other words, it is hard to get ahead by working hard in the States compared to being born in the right caste.
            Here's a right wing think tanks view on Canadian economic mobility with links to studies, https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/social-mobility-alive-and-well-canada [fraserinstitute.org]

            • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday March 03 2018, @06:57PM (2 children)

              by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Saturday March 03 2018, @06:57PM (#647190) Homepage Journal

              America has some of the first worlds shittiest odds of being able to better yourselves economically.

              Assuming this is true, for the sake of argument, I'd say it's caused more by an almost entirely unskilled labor pool than it is by a new wave of robber barons. Those of us with scarce and in demand skills are doing just fine, thank you very much.

              --
              My rights don't end where your fear begins.
              • (Score: 2) by dry on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:47PM (1 child)

                by dry (223) on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:47PM (#647227) Journal

                That's probably as true in Canada as the States. Unluckily there is a good portion of the population who just don't have those in demand skills. Shit, I'm in the top 2% IQ wise, but my mind just doesn't work the right way to follow Perl code. You're lucky to have won the lottery in having an in demand skill as well as working hard to take advantage of those skills.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:10PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:10PM (#647324)

                  That's probably as true in Canada as the States. Unluckily there is a good portion of the population who just don't have those in demand skills. Shit, I'm in the top 2% IQ wise, but my mind just doesn't work the right way to follow Perl code. You're lucky to have won the lottery in having an in demand skill as well as working hard to take advantage of those skills.

                  Google Translation:

                  I'm the smartest guy in the room, but I can't figure out how to use that to find a job that doesn't require me to wear a paper hat.

            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday March 04 2018, @01:29AM (3 children)

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 04 2018, @01:29AM (#647401) Journal

              America has some of the first worlds shittiest odds of being able to better yourselves economically. Somewhere I saw that it is 4 times easier to move from the bottom quintuple to the top quintuple of earners in Canada then America.

              It's easier for an amateur basketball player to move from the worst 20% to the best 20% just by playing weekend pick up games than it is for a professional basketball player to move from the worst 20% to the best 20%. Income and wealth inequality are dishonest for making such comparisons. The US is much more competitive and higher overall income/wealth at its highest levels than Canada is (a much bigger business creation environment and finance sector, for example). So I don't consider the difficulty to be a valid measure of what makes economies good or bad.

              • (Score: 2) by dry on Sunday March 04 2018, @04:24AM (2 children)

                by dry (223) on Sunday March 04 2018, @04:24AM (#647474) Journal

                So you're saying it is fine that people can't better themselves as there are already so many better people?
                Seems to me that it should be easier to better yourself as it has

                (a much bigger business creation environment and finance sector, for example)

                so more opportunity.
                Perhaps America should change their slogan from "Land of Opportunity".

                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday March 04 2018, @05:28AM (1 child)

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 04 2018, @05:28AM (#647492) Journal

                  So you're saying it is fine that people can't better themselves as there are already so many better people?

                  No, but you are saying here that you didn't read and understand my post.

                  It's harder to place in the top 20% in the US because the standards are higher and you have to be a lot wealthier to place. And the dirty fact is that most people don't care enough to do that just like they don't try to place in the top 20% of professional basketball.

                  • (Score: 2) by dry on Sunday March 04 2018, @06:19AM

                    by dry (223) on Sunday March 04 2018, @06:19AM (#647517) Journal

                    It's still just 20% of the population. We're not talking about joining the 1% or rather the 0.01%. You're 10 times bigger so you should have a 10x upper 20%.

                    And the dirty fact is that most people don't care enough to do that just like they don't try to place in the top 20% of professional basketball.

                    OK, Americans just don't want to advance themselves compared to all other developed nations excepting the UK. Doesn't take away from my original point that birth is more important then working hard. See they're talking about luck up the page as well, something else to consider, you can be the best basketball player in the world but if a scout never sees you...

      • (Score: 1) by easyTree on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:27AM (3 children)

        by easyTree (6882) on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:27AM (#646999)

        Clearly the students should be armed.

        Once everyone carries a gun, everyone will be safe.

        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:14PM (2 children)

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Saturday March 03 2018, @12:14PM (#647017) Homepage Journal

          You say it in sarcasm but only because you're an idiot. I've owned firearms since I was eight years old and never so much as pointed one at a human being. The problem is not and never has been the firearms or it would have presented itself earlier in our two hundred plus years.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @03:28PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @03:28PM (#647088)

            it was literally something like get off the boat, start walking, find a nice meadow and claim it as your own. if native americans showed up and asked you to leave, you were "allowed" to kill them (in the sense that other white people saw nothing wrong with it).
            or is not a mass shooting if the victims are not white?
            and I guess the feuds I read about in Huckleberry Finn were just stories, and likewise the various happy tales of Tombstone etc?

            the US has been a very violent country ever since it was born, with widespread ownership of guns a problem throughout its bloody history.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @04:18PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @04:18PM (#647108)

        yeah, it's more than possible that the fbi didn't "accidentally" drop the ball. creating/facilitating terrorists and school shooters seems to be their main job these days. it seems to me the intel agencies and fbi have been taken over by the NWO lobby, which is anti 2nd amendment.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @04:32PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @04:32PM (#647121)

        dude

        the guys life is ruined because of what he did

        any sort of sign that your beliefs are under attack seem to fit the narrative of what the NRA is pushing -- rule by fear and ignorance. You are 1000000000000000000% percent right about the narrative and noticing it, i can't agree with you more because that isn't a certain political slant, that is certainly political -- or just control. whoever is in charge wants the levers of control and this is just one any group can use.

        but there is no way I can think this guy did his stunt because of some elaborate plot he hatched to undermine the ownership of guns. He's just stupid because he achieved nothing and will be harshly punished for it if you are correct.

        my views just state he was stupid, but for different reasons.

        and for the record, prior to this mass shooting, i had no idea gun free zones even exists except around elected politicians, enforced by aggressive people with guns (cops, security, private guards, etc).

        because as you said the narrative is just telling us to admire the clothing the emperor is wearing.

        and trump isnt arming any school teachers. because fuck that my taxes aren't going to teachers to carry weapons into school. they arent going to go into insurance policies to pay for life insurance payouts for kids shot because of guns that werent supposed to be there because people aren't stupid, not because the writing said only authorized people can fire weapons in a school at kids because otherwise the politicans get embarassed on national television.

        No, ENFORCE THE DAMN LAWS about gun ownership, do the fucking checks, and when these people are reported or whatever, then yeah hire someone smart to figure out what the fuck to do about people threatening to kills others and amassing guns to do it. because putting handguns in the hands of teachers and telling them to bravely fight some fucked up person with military assault weapons is FUCKED UP. thats what you do when there's nothing left. there are wars where they sent in the women and children because all the good men died. our "good men" are fucking saying to arm the women and children.

          drop the magical barrier magical thinking mental bubble that you, the people on the other side who just say no (isn't the republican party the party of no? arent they doing it now because freedom and liberty costs the lives of stupid kids who go to public school and not a private one favored by the political elite?) Hey I got news for you: you raise kids in a fucked up environment, they end up fucked up adults.

        fucked up can be many things, like remembering this shit for the rest of their lives and acting accordingly that the adults didn't care because there was too m uch money involved to properly make schools safe for kids. then they'll vote if they dont do something worse

        your best outcome is that they die so they cant influence anyone for more than a few months when the prayers are done being spoken by our elected officials.

    • (Score: 3, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:21AM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:21AM (#646935)

      Citation needed.

      -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

      • (Score: 5, Informative) by khallow on Saturday March 03 2018, @09:05AM (1 child)

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday March 03 2018, @09:05AM (#646963) Journal
        He was apparently a "Teapublitarian".

        On Facebook, Davidson is a member of the “Teapublitarian Party” group, which says in its description, “If you want smaller government with less tax and regulation and all that then your tea party. If you believe in a representative republic and traditional values then you are republican. If you believe your personal rights and responsibilities begin where mine end and the minimal amount of government is still probably too much then your libertarian. If your a bit of all this then you are Teapublitarian. WELCOME HOME.”

        That's Democrat, right? /sarc

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2018, @05:50AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2018, @05:50AM (#647505)

          There are two ways to look at this.

          What you'd prefer: He registered as a democrat in order to pick weak candidates in the primary elections.

          The most likely: He put "Teapublitarian" on Facebook as he was planning his shooting incident.

      • (Score: 2, Troll) by realDonaldTrump on Saturday March 03 2018, @09:50AM

        by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Saturday March 03 2018, @09:50AM (#646972) Homepage Journal

        I used to be a Republican in the '80s and '90s. Then I registered in the Independence Party, also known as the Reform Party. And in 2000 I ran for President (people don't know this, it was one of my first presidential campaigns). Until I saw that the Reform Party -- also known as the Independence Party -- was a mess. It just wasn't conducive to victory. So I withdrew. You can read about it in my book, The America We Deserve. And in August 2001 I joined the Democratic Party. Because I saw that George W. Bush was a TOTAL DISASTER for our Country. Something the whole world knew the next month. I was a Democrat until September 2009. Until I saw that Obama was a TOTAL DISASTER for our Country. So I joined the Republican Party. It's a much better fit for my views.

        But this isn't about political parties, or any kind of parties. And it isn't about guns, it's not a gun thing. A bad or sick guy lost his mind. Had a "bizarre medical episode," so sad. And maybe, probably, some mental illnesses. I've known so many mentally ill people. SteveKBannon [twitter.com], I fired him and he lost it completely, he snapped. But fortunately, he didn't shoot anybody -- if I recall correctly. We have to be much more careful about our mentally ill folks. And some regular folks. Because they're not always safe. With guns, with so many things. We need much better gun safety. And much better school safety. We need to teach gun safety in our schools. We need to work much harder on protecting the children! Trust me, we're going to do the right thing.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Arik on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:34AM (1 child)

      by Arik (4543) on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:34AM (#646941) Journal
      How about we outlaw murder?

      Isn't it about time?

      How many more have to die from murder before our omnipotent legislature decides to exercise their authority and stop this nonsense?

      --
      If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @10:44AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @10:44AM (#646983)

        (very close, treading in the Poe's law territory, I doubt many here will get the point)

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by LVDOVICVS on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:52AM (22 children)

      by LVDOVICVS (6131) on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:52AM (#646956)

      There are 300,000,000 guns in the United States already. How many more are needed before the problem is fixed? Maybe everyone should have a gun at all times. We have enough.

      • (Score: 2) by Arik on Saturday March 03 2018, @09:35AM (18 children)

        by Arik (4543) on Saturday March 03 2018, @09:35AM (#646970) Journal
        Real problems like this can't be solved with simplistic hollywood solutions. Neither more 'guns' nor fewer 'guns' is a solution to the problem.

        If you think they are, you probably don't understand what the problem is.
        --
        If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
        • (Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @10:19AM (17 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @10:19AM (#646979)

          Port Aurthur massacre - Australia - 1996
          1 gunman - 35 dead - 23 wounded

          Afterwards, the people of Australia said ENOUGH!
          The changed the gun ownership laws.
          They bought back the guns from those who were no longer entitled to ownership and destroyed those.

          They haven't had a mass shooting since.
          It clearly is a solution.

          Compare:
          May 2017 - 18 injured in Changchun, China knife attack [news24.com]

          none of the injuries were life-threatening

          -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

          • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Arik on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:24AM (7 children)

            by Arik (4543) on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:24AM (#646998) Journal
            "It clearly is a solution."

            To a manufactured (and artificially defined) problem.

            I've lived in Australia. It's the only place I've ever lived that was MORE violent than the US. They don't often shoot each other, these days. At least, not with firearms. I saw a case with a crossbow bolt - I think I'd rather have a bullet. But where they hide most of their deadly assaults is the key "glassing." When you "glass" someone, you hit them in the face with a glass hard enough to break it. Then you slice them up with what you have left. Many have been killed, many others disfigured for life. At least when I was there this was accurate.

            Now, when I was there, they were working really, really hard to remove all glass from all public restaurants and bars. It was still in service and it was still being used, every night, but replacements had to be acrylic, so that it can't be used that way.

            How far have they gone down that road now? I'm not there, I can't say directly, and I've been on the ground for events and then read about them in the news the next day too many times to do more than chortle at the notion that I can trust the news to tell me. But I'm sure if they have then the violence is simply finding new and more creative ways to express itself. Violence does not cease just because a common weapon is removed from the arena.

            This is the same slippery slope argument that is used to outlaw freedom in each and every instance. The same argument that says you can't possibly be allowed to see the source your mobile phone, you can't possibly boot an unauthorized OS on your PC, etc.

            The fact is that violence is a much deeper problem than simply having weapons available, and that attempting to eliminate weapons results in an impoverished environment, in all respects. Yes, it's somewhat more difficult to find an effective weapon in an impoverished environment, but no, that doesn't mean less violence. Quite the opposite.

            Make a nerf world and the consequence will be a spike in killings by strangulation.
            --
            If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
            • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @03:32PM (5 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @03:32PM (#647091)

              Please explain how a single person can "glass" 35 people.

              Otherwise your statement ist just "the ban only made things better by multiple orders if magnitude, but not perfect and was this a total failure".

              • (Score: 2) by mhajicek on Saturday March 03 2018, @06:04PM (3 children)

                by mhajicek (51) on Saturday March 03 2018, @06:04PM (#647157)

                There are serial killers who have been convicted of strangling over 100 people, one at a time.

                --
                The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
                • (Score: 2) by LVDOVICVS on Saturday March 03 2018, @06:42PM (2 children)

                  by LVDOVICVS (6131) on Saturday March 03 2018, @06:42PM (#647173)

                  Outlier data.

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @09:26PM (1 child)

                    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @09:26PM (#647274)

                    There are serial killers who have been convicted of strangling over 100 people, one at a time.

                    Outlier data.

                    Comforting to the outlier victims, I'm sure.

                    • (Score: 2) by LVDOVICVS on Saturday March 03 2018, @09:54PM

                      by LVDOVICVS (6131) on Saturday March 03 2018, @09:54PM (#647284)

                      Not the point of the discussion. However, since the concept may be confusing to you, let me state it clearly; the goal is zero victims.

              • (Score: 1, Troll) by Arik on Saturday March 03 2018, @09:17PM

                by Arik (4543) on Saturday March 03 2018, @09:17PM (#647271) Journal
                "Please explain how a single person can "glass" 35 people."

                No. I don't want to give some asshole that would actually do it ideas. If you know anything about human anatomy and physiology it's not hard to figure it out yourself, unfortunately.

                "the ban only made things better by multiple orders if magnitude"

                No, it didn't, and nothing I said even vaguely implies that it did.

                If you're a (physically) powerful person who wants to be able to bully and bash others without risk then I suppose it improved for you.

                --
                If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
            • (Score: 1) by nitehawk214 on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:23PM

              by nitehawk214 (1304) on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:23PM (#647252)

              That sounds like an argument that gun control in Australia is working. Instead of being armed with a gun, they are armed with a glass bottle.

              --
              "Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @04:25PM (7 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @04:25PM (#647115)

            see, this is the problem with socialists. i have no problem with worker ownership of the means of production but now you want to take away people's right to have the means to revolt or protect against unjust government(public thieves/attackers/kidnappers) or private thieves/attackers/kidnappers. you've gone full authoritarian, nazi on us. what happened?

            • (Score: 3, Insightful) by LVDOVICVS on Saturday March 03 2018, @06:39PM (6 children)

              by LVDOVICVS (6131) on Saturday March 03 2018, @06:39PM (#647171)

              You will never, ever have the means to "protect against unjust government." You can't defend yourself from an M1A1 tank. You can't fight a hellfire missile fired from three miles up, not to mention all the other means available to a government today. This is a completely spurious argument.

              • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:10PM (3 children)

                by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:10PM (#647202) Homepage Journal

                That is an idiotic statement. Latest guestimates of gun ownership in the US is around one hundred million people owning somewhere around four hundred million firearms that we know about. I want you to ask yourself what one million or so combined police and military are supposed to do against that should they decide it's necessary. Especially when a gun owning citizen looks exactly like a cowering subject right up until they decide to kill you.

                --
                My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:54PM (2 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @07:54PM (#647234)

                  Well, oh paranoid Buzzard, when 70% of the armed citizens are standing with the police and military to take down the Rebels (Sound familiar? Militia? Whiskey Rebellion?), the guns of the crazy 3%ers, or the possible 16% of Americans that might support them, will amount to naught. So cut the "Red Dawn" ammosexual fantasies.

                  • (Score: 1) by tftp on Saturday March 03 2018, @09:10PM (1 child)

                    by tftp (806) on Saturday March 03 2018, @09:10PM (#647267) Homepage
                    These days about 0% of armed citizens will stand with the police and the military in case of an internal strife. People are well informed nowadays, even overinformed sometimes.
                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @10:14PM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @10:14PM (#647295)

                      With the obvious exception of tftp!

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2018, @02:24AM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 04 2018, @02:24AM (#647422)

                As just one simple example, uprising citizens could easily go shoot holes in the fuel tanks at air bases
                and effectively ground the air resources. Looks like you have not been "thinking for yourself" and just
                thrown in the towel.

                • (Score: 2) by LVDOVICVS on Monday March 05 2018, @07:28AM

                  by LVDOVICVS (6131) on Monday March 05 2018, @07:28AM (#647895)

                  Yeah, I forgot. Airbases are not massive parcels of land. They park the planes right next to the outermost fences at all of them. And they don't have guards, patrols, or sensors. And they don't have places around where they really do park the planes that if one enters, they literally shoot first, then maybe ask questions if anyone survives.

                  Congratulations. That's is the stupidest piece of gun fellating crap I've heard in a while.

          • (Score: 1) by west on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:25PM

            by west (6884) on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:25PM (#647326)

            they have had mass shootings since. educate yourself.

            mexico has total gun restriction. and the highest gun violence on the planet.

            checkmate?

      • (Score: 1) by west on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:27PM (2 children)

        by west (6884) on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:27PM (#647327)

        160 million in 1993, 300 million now.
        >
        since 1993 gun violence AND gun murder and dropped IN HALF
        >
        guess we need many more if we want no gun violence by YOUR LOGIC
        >
        lol holy shit people your arguments are awesome.
        >

    • (Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:54AM

      by maxwell demon (1608) on Saturday March 03 2018, @08:54AM (#646959) Journal

      From the summary:

      Records show Davidson has been charged with aggravated assault with a gun, terroristic threats and acts, carrying a weapon in a school safety zone without a license, reckless conduct, disrupting public school, and possession of a firearm during the commission of a felony.

      Yes, that certainly sounds like someone who would want strict gun laws. </sarcasm>

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    • (Score: 2) by shortscreen on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:33PM

      by shortscreen (2252) on Saturday March 03 2018, @11:33PM (#647331) Journal

      Clearly, we need to ban school.

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