A "personal drone" that crashed and burst into flames was the cause of the Kendrick Fire, a 335 acre fire in the Coconino National Forest (wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coconino_National_Forest) in northern Arizona, USA. Coconino National Forest spokesman George Jozens said that about 30 firefighters from the U.S. Forest Service and Summit Fire and Medical worked to quell the fire.
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
'Personal Drone' Crash Causes 335-Acre Wildfire in Coconino National Forest
|
Log In/Create an Account
| Top
| 40 comments
| Search Discussion
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1)
(1)
(Score: 3, Insightful) by anubi on Saturday March 10 2018, @07:18AM (31 children)
Based on what I read... it looks like pure accident. No malice, Nor negligence.
Things like that happen, whether it be drone, lightning stroke, vulture frying himself on high voltage power line, or carelessly tossed cigarette.
I consider cigarettes far greater cause for concern, but knowing how ingrained a cigarette habit is, it would be just as hard to keep people from smoking in the forest as it is to keep people from sharing a song. There is a such thing as going overboard, and that definitely qualifies.
Interesting read, but I would hardly consider it an actionable item. Yes, its possible for a drone to catch fire. Its also possible for it to go off course and kill someone. And me, driving my van, carries thousands of times more risk to the public than the drone pilot, despite how careful I try to be.
That one was newsworthy only because it is so damned unusual.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 3, Informative) by tonyPick on Saturday March 10 2018, @09:07AM (13 children)
It turns out that doesn't matter:
http://articles.latimes.com/2007/dec/02/local/me-firestart2 [latimes.com]
More reading:
http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2015/07/cause-a-forest-fire-go-to-jail.html [findlaw.com]
http://kutv.com/news/get-gephardt/people-who-accidentally-start-wildfires-hefty-face-fines-criminal-charges-records-show [kutv.com]
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Saturday March 10 2018, @09:13AM (3 children)
So whom are they going to sue for the lightning-induced fires?
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by tonyPick on Saturday March 10 2018, @09:21AM
Well clearly somebody has some Thor fanfic they're desperate to see written up :)
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 10 2018, @12:45PM
I'd love to see the preacherman's face should they drop into the church and confiscate the begging plates...
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday March 10 2018, @02:47PM
I hear Billy Connolly may know a thing or two about, as he starred in a documentary [wikipedia.org] on the theme.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Interesting) by tonyPick on Saturday March 10 2018, @09:15AM (2 children)
Replying to myself - here's a better link discussing the issue: https://www.outsideonline.com/2112901/you-could-foot-bill-next-big-wildfire [outsideonline.com]
The article goes over the reasoning behind the crackdown on this in more detail (TLDR - lots of fires and massive costs, so agencies want to recover costs where possible and act as a deterrent where not).
(Score: 4, Insightful) by wonkey_monkey on Saturday March 10 2018, @10:34AM (1 child)
I like to pride myself that isn't the main factor in what stops me killing people.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 10 2018, @12:01PM
https://xkcd.com/1958/ [xkcd.com]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by anubi on Saturday March 10 2018, @09:51AM (4 children)
If negligence were involved, I am all for it.
If I am careless with my barbeque, and set my neighbor's house ablaze, hell yes, I am responsible! I carry insurance for that sort of thing. There are accidents, and there are things like having drunk barbeque parties. Like, just what do I do if my propane tank explodes or the valve flies apart at just the wrong moment? Not likely, but its possible.
Interesting situation though... my neighbor's car ignited itself about ten years ago... right in his own garage! He had just parked it and ready to go into his house, and the thing caught fire. Thinking quickly, he shoved it into neutral and pushed it out into the street. I still have the burn marks in the pavement in front of MY house! But leaving it in front of HIS house was not an option. He has a tree there. I had no tree to ignite. In this instance, the car just burned... nothing more. But for the sake of argument, say that car set the whole friggen neighborhood on fire... who would pay?
The man who owns the car? Well, he did have insurance, but not nearly enough for this. Go after him? Really? Are all the neighbors expected to pay? My guess is that is what we pay fire insurance premiums for... accidents ... cause I know good and well that guy did not set his own car on fire just for the fun of it.
Would I want to go after a family going to see grandma but had their car engine ignite? Well, could happen... And only God knows what can happen to something like a Tesla should one of its lithium packs go... I do not mean to troll or diss Tesla... I think the whole scenario is highly unlikely, but possible.
I feel this is one of the reasons we pay taxes to support public firefighting on public land.
This hypothetical family had no intention whatsoever of doing what hypothetically happened. Now, if they knew they were driving a car leaking gasoline, hell yes, I would go after them. What about these adventurers that get themselves into trouble and fire off rescue missions - I would go after them for rescue costs... as they had the choice of whether or not to put themselves into a precarious spot for the sport of it. If they like to do that sort of thing, I feel they oughta have insurance for that. I admit I am fed up with having my tax monies spent to rescue rich sunzabitchez enjoying dangerous sport on the taxpayer dime.
There is some legal phrase meaning "the act is not culpable unless the mind is guilty"... "mens rea" I believe its called. That went out?
Heavens no, I do mean to fuss at you... your links are very informative and brought these questions/situations to mind, and thought I would run them up the flagpole for comment.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by tonyPick on Saturday March 10 2018, @10:29AM (2 children)
Yep, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea. [wikipedia.org]
However I believe here we're wandering into Tort [wikipedia.org] Law, which is a part of civil law where (as per wikipedia):
However I Am Not A Lawyer, and the details probably vary extensively based on jursidiction so as to how the rest of your hypothetical goes, I have no idea, outside of a quick googling which seems to suggest that "It depends":
https://www.chron.com/neighborhood/baytown-news/article/Know-Your-Rights-Neighbor-not-liable-for-damage-1841622.php [chron.com]
(I'd guess in the hypothetical the fact he deliberately moved the fire from his to your property to yours might be significant, since someone could argue that he deliberately put other peoples property at risk to save his own, but as I said IA (still) NAL. Now throw in the on-fire-car moving across state lines and through a forest and I suspect the insurance company lawyers could be arguing with each other over that one for years...)
(Score: 1) by anubi on Saturday March 10 2018, @12:36PM (1 child)
Interesting. Thanks!
At the time that car fire happened, I was not about to quibble... I was out with my garden hose trying my best to see to it that I had everything all wet down.
My biggest fear his gasoline tank was going to rupture, the ignited fuel spilling down along the curb, mess up all the other cars parked along the curb, and KaBoom once it went into the culvert and was confined in the underground street drain. I could not get his fire out with it. It was under the hood in the engine compartment, and it would come back just as soon as I took the hose off of it, but I was trying to keep everything as cool as I could by keeping everything around there wet. When the fire department arrived, they had some sort of mister thing, and it was out in seconds.
I was so relieved that his gasoline tank did not rupture.
There were puddles of aluminum in the road when they left. It had definitely got hot in that engine compartment.
If his big pine tree caught fire, we ALL would have been in big trouble. That was my big thing... keep that fire out of that pine tree. I have a eucalyptus tree nearby, and his pine tree would have certainly spread it to my eucalyptus.
If we were unsuccessful, well, I figured that's why I have been paying all those fire insurance premiums. Crap happens. Luckily, nothing happened. It was a beautiful car too... seems like it was only a week old or so. A real Bummer.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 10 2018, @03:33PM
I've had a fire start due to a poorly adjusted carburetor once - you have to smother it with a jacket or blanket, water won't work. I burned up a brand new jacket, but saved the vehicle and quite possibly our lives (we were on the freeway in the countryside when it happened, no way the fire department could have saved us).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 10 2018, @04:24PM
I suppose that depends. At least where I live, propane tanks are stamped with a certification date and are certified for 10 years after that date. Then they have to be recertified if you want to keep using them (this is not really worth it for barbecue tanks compared to just buying a new one).
Realistically, propane systems are rather low pressure and are very safe if you don't do stupid shit, but if you are using one out of certification and something goes wrong then it is probably on you.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Sunday March 11 2018, @09:58AM
So accidental causes of fire include deliberately set fires and deliberately set fires? There is a reason the word "negligence" exists in the language.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 1, Disagree) by cocaine overdose on Saturday March 10 2018, @12:53PM (15 children)
Listen here, hombre, don't you be trying to cigarette shame me. I've tossed countless cigarettes in the summers of California forests, right into the dry leaves. You know what happened? Nothing. After a few minutes, the filters would just cool down and go cold. You can even put them out with your fingers. All this propaganda from the entertainment industries. Like throwing a cigarette on a line of poured gasoline will ignite it. Are you mad? Or like that one CoD: World at War game, where in the beginning the nipponeese kamkazi watsuhbishi nagasaki lieutenant drives a cigarette into the forehead of a poor, tied-up American marine (the few, the proud, MUHREEENS), and he screams in agony. Listen here, fellow Western-inhabiting fellow. That's not how it works. Cigarettes will burn your skin if you really drive them in there, but holding it on your skin will just be kind of uncomfortable. Seriously, try it. Go out to your local petrol station and pick up some Marlboro Gold 100s and a bic lighter. Take one out and light it, I assume you know how to start a lighter. Then take a long drag until the entire thing's down to the filter. Now, put the butt on your tongue. Do you feel that? Yeah, it's like a 9 volt battery. It almost tickles. Now, go throw it in the trash. Better yet, go through it at some little shit whose mom caused the smoking ban in restaurants. Teach em what's what.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by archfeld on Saturday March 10 2018, @06:05PM (14 children)
Really...My brother has tossed away cigarettes he 'thought' were out into garbage cans at my home and TWICE they smoldered and then broke into open flames. Once nearly burning my garage down, and the second time in my kitchen where the smoke set off a fire alarm and my GF used our fire extinguisher to put out the flames. Needless to say we don't let him smoke indoors anymore.
As a former smoker for many years I can say with total certainty that only idiots still smoke. I support your right to do so but that doesn't mean I don't feel that you aren't an idiot. I don't even 'smoke' my beloved pot anymore but I've moved on to vaporizing, or getting it in the form of edibles.
Long live freedom and personal choice...
For the NSA : Explosives, guns, assassination, conspiracy, primers, detonators, initiators, main charge, nuclear charge
(Score: 1) by cocaine overdose on Saturday March 10 2018, @06:23PM (13 children)
Garbage can fires are propaganda from the "Department of Healthier State Resource Investments and Soros Fund." Everyone knows no one actually throws away a cigarette that's still not finished (except for girls, aaaah), and even then, there's been no research saying butts are hot enough to ignite other combustibles. In-fact, I can find not one study, not one reference that studies this point. You're more likely to get a face full of shrapnel from an e-vape, than getting your BK wrappers light on fire in the trash from a stray butt.
Go on, purchase an AL85 and hold your thumb on the battery cap while you drag. Your hair will catch fire sooner than a butt will cause an arson prosecution!
(Score: 2) by archfeld on Saturday March 10 2018, @06:32PM (10 children)
Propaganda or not I personally was present and witnessed the results of both of the cigarette originated fires I described above.
For the NSA : Explosives, guns, assassination, conspiracy, primers, detonators, initiators, main charge, nuclear charge
(Score: 1) by cocaine overdose on Saturday March 10 2018, @07:32PM (9 children)
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 10 2018, @08:35PM (1 child)
Styrofoam and a cig ember will start a fire. Every time I've seen a garbage can fire that was the cause.
(Score: 1) by cocaine overdose on Saturday March 10 2018, @11:36PM
(Score: 2) by archfeld on Saturday March 10 2018, @10:32PM (6 children)
Citation required ?!?! Are you fsck'n stupid ? I am my personal citation. I am not speaking of some remote event I am speaking something I personally witnessed and endured. If you don't want to believe it that is your problem Trumplestiltskin.
Here is a credible source of information regarding the phenomenon but it is unlikely that you will believe it. It is likely that you would be screaming "Fake News" as you were immolated by a fire caused by a cigarette...
https://www.nfpa.org/public-education/by-topic/top-causes-of-fire/smoking [nfpa.org]
For the NSA : Explosives, guns, assassination, conspiracy, primers, detonators, initiators, main charge, nuclear charge
(Score: 1) by cocaine overdose on Saturday March 10 2018, @11:33PM (5 children)
Hmmm. I did read your sources, while I am not satisfied with a completely biased source (National Fire Protection Association -- might as well be from 'Truth' Anti Tobacco Organization), I will concede that it is more than just a dumb fact sheet for public school children. However, your sources prove me to be correct, instead of you.
Source [nfpa.org]
If your anecdote was from a non first world country or if this was long ago, I would say there's nothing more for us to discuss. But, if this was recent, your brother may be a member of the "Arsonist Underground," and carries strong ignition cigarettes to do damage covertly. It's not my place to say this, but I recommend having a sit down, perhaps with a police officer nearby. Those AUs are "firestarters" as they like to call themselves, when in reality they're just bipolar maniacs.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Sunday March 11 2018, @11:20AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by archfeld on Sunday March 11 2018, @07:43PM (3 children)
There was never anything for us to discuss in the first place. I was present and responsible for extinguishing the fire in my garage, and my GF did the same for the second fire. If you choose to believe or disbelieve that is your choice. You can live your life in a state of total denial or not. It is not my concern. I am convinced you'd deny the truth as you burned up, but again, not my concern.
For the NSA : Explosives, guns, assassination, conspiracy, primers, detonators, initiators, main charge, nuclear charge
(Score: 1) by cocaine overdose on Sunday March 11 2018, @08:38PM (2 children)
(Score: 2) by archfeld on Sunday March 11 2018, @08:56PM (1 child)
How would that address the issue in question ? A human body is in no way shape or form close to a trash can full of potentially flammable stuff. You've gone beyond reaching to just proving what a corn hole you are to everyone else...
For the NSA : Explosives, guns, assassination, conspiracy, primers, detonators, initiators, main charge, nuclear charge
(Score: 1) by cocaine overdose on Monday March 12 2018, @09:17AM
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Sunday March 11 2018, @10:06AM (1 child)
And I too have seen bins asmoulder, do you think it's the packs of gummi bears that are to blame for that? I'm sure Phillip Morris would support you on that one, given their history.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 1) by cocaine overdose on Sunday March 11 2018, @10:30AM
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 10 2018, @03:17PM
Cigarettes wouldn't be a concern if people would just field strip their butts and be careful about the hots. If you can't responsibly manage your waste, you shouldn't smoke at all. I used to have a pack a day habit, it's not that hard to not burn shit down.
(Score: 2) by archfeld on Saturday March 10 2018, @07:20AM (4 children)
It was not a no fly zone, the drone wasn't smoking. Smokey the bear knows sometimes shit happens. Nice to know the cause I guess, but it certainly wasn't intentional or even the result of negligence, just an accident.
For the NSA : Explosives, guns, assassination, conspiracy, primers, detonators, initiators, main charge, nuclear charge
(Score: 2) by takyon on Saturday March 10 2018, @07:49AM
We should create a new Interagency Task Force Agency that combines the duties of the U.S. Forest Service [npr.org] and the Federal Aviation Administration [aopa.org]. It will be located in Denver, Colorado for easy access to cannabis and gigabit internet [ispprovidersinmyarea.com] for teleworking (goofing off).
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1) by Captival on Saturday March 10 2018, @07:57AM (1 child)
Total Bullshit. I am outraged. How dare you ascribe laissez faire to Smokey the Bear? Smokey the Bear would rape you for even thinking about it. He doesn't fuck around with the forest. We all saw The Revenant with Leonardo DiCaprio. That was Smokey's grandpa.
(Score: 2) by archfeld on Saturday March 10 2018, @05:52PM
LOL, If Smokey the Bear dared to show his brown self in Arizona they would have his furry ass deported so fast he'd not know what was happening. Once in Mexico he'd be seized by a cartel and forced to act as a drug mule hiking over the border to deliver bundles of Meth into Texas, where he would be shot and mounted on a wall within 20 minutes.
For the NSA : Explosives, guns, assassination, conspiracy, primers, detonators, initiators, main charge, nuclear charge
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 10 2018, @09:58AM
Sure wish I could turn my patio into a "no fly zone" so I could enjoy my barbeque without constantly swatting the things.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by maxwell demon on Saturday March 10 2018, @09:10AM (2 children)
This actually raises a question: Should a crashed drone be able to cause a fire? That is, is this an unavoidable risk of drone flying, or is it the fault of the manufacturer to make a drone that catches fire so easily?
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 5, Informative) by tonyPick on Saturday March 10 2018, @09:31AM
Batteries, especially the LiPo packs you'll see in drones (high density, low weight, cheap) are made of fairly nasty chemicals that react very badly with each other, and the protection circuitry you'll see on them is there to attempt to minimise spontaneous explosions/overtemp/chemical fires that will result when charging, discharging or just sitting in a room (OK not quite that bad, but nastier than most people are aware of).
Assuming the drone crashed and the cell was punctured on impact then it's a definite "will catch fire" situation.
(Score: 1) by anubi on Saturday March 10 2018, @10:05AM
If we are gonna go after the drone manufacturer for this, why aren't we going after Microsoft and whoever did this JavaScript thing for all these "wildfires" in our computer networks?
I am not talking freak occurrence. I am talking about stuff everyone knows is well known for having this kind of problem. But use it anyway.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]