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posted by martyb on Monday March 12 2018, @07:54PM   Printer-friendly
from the doo-dah-dee-dum-duum dept.

A group linked to Luis Elizondo, the former leader of the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, as well as other former military and government officials, has released a video showing a 2015 UFO encounter involving U.S. Navy pilots:

A newly-released video which shows U.S. Navy pilots encountering an unidentified flying object (UFO) in 2015 has garnered calls for more research into what these mysterious objects could be. "What the f--- is that thing?" one pilot can be heard saying in the video. "Wow, what is that, man?" the pilot adds. "Look at that flying!"

The footage was released Friday by To the Stars Academy of Arts and Science (TTSA), a private scientific research and media group. It is led by Dr. Hal Puthoff, a NASA and U.S. Department of Defense adviser and James Semivan, a former U.S. Central Intelligence Agency service member. The clip is said to be "an authentic DoD video that captures the high-speed flight of an unidentified aircraft at low altitude" and "reveals a previously undisclosed Navy encounter that occurred off the East Coast in 2015," according to a statement from TTSA.

Editorial by Christopher Mellon, deputy assistant secretary of defense for intelligence in the Clinton and George W. Bush administrations

From my work with To the Stars Academy, which seeks to raise private funds to investigate incidents like the 2004 Nimitz encounter, I know they continue to occur, because we are being approached by military personnel who are concerned about national security and frustrated by how the Defense Department is handling such reports. I am also familiar with the evidence as a former Pentagon intelligence official and a consultant who began researching the issue after the Nimitz incident was brought to my attention. On several occasions, I have met with senior Pentagon officials, and at least one followed up and obtained briefings confirming incidents such as the Nimitz case. But nobody wants to be "the alien guy" in the national security bureaucracy; nobody wants to be ridiculed or sidelined for drawing attention to the issue. This is true up and down the chain of command, and it is a serious and recurring impediment to progress.

Also at USA Today and NextBigFuture.

Related: UFO Existence 'Proven Beyond Reasonable Doubt': Former Head Of Pentagon Program


Original Submission

Related Stories

Pentagon's UFO Investigation Program Revealed 22 comments

Glowing Auras and 'Black Money': The Pentagon's Mysterious U.F.O. Program

In the $600 billion annual Defense Department budgets, the $22 million spent on the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program was almost impossible to find. Which was how the Pentagon wanted it. For years, the program investigated reports of unidentified flying objects, according to Defense Department officials, interviews with program participants and records obtained by The New York Times. It was run by a military intelligence official, Luis Elizondo, on the fifth floor of the Pentagon's C Ring, deep within the building's maze.

The Defense Department has never before acknowledged the existence of the program, which it says it shut down in 2012. But its backers say that, while the Pentagon ended funding for the effort at that time, the program remains in existence. For the past five years, they say, officials with the program have continued to investigate episodes brought to them by service members, while also carrying out their other Defense Department duties.

UFO Existence 'Proven Beyond Reasonable Doubt': Former Head Of Pentagon Program 65 comments

The existence of UFOs had been "proved beyond reasonable doubt," according the head of the secret Pentagon program that analyzed the mysterious aircrafts.

In an interview with British broadsheet The Telegraph published on Saturday, Luis Elizondo told the newspaper of the sightings, "In my opinion, if this was a court of law, we have reached the point of 'beyond reasonable doubt.'"

"I hate to use the term UFO but that's what we're looking at," he added. "I think it's pretty clear this is not us, and it's not anyone else, so no one has to ask questions where they're from."

Since 2007, Elizondo led the government program, the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, investigating evidence of UFOs and alien life. It was shuttered in 2012.

Its existence was first reported by The New York Times last week.

Elizondo was not able to discuss specifics of the program, but told The Telegraph that there had been "lots" of UFO sightings and witnesses interviewed during the program's five years.

Investigators pinpointed geographical "hot spots" that were sometimes near nuclear facilities and power plants and observed trends among the aircrafts including lack of flight surfaces on the objects and extreme manoeuvrability, Elizondo told The Telegraph.

Previously: Pentagon's UFO Investigation Program Revealed


Original Submission

Are We Alone? The Question is Worthy of Serious Scientific Study 75 comments

Are we alone? The question is worthy of serious scientific study

Are we alone? Unfortunately, neither of the answers feel satisfactory. To be alone in this vast universe is a lonely prospect. On the other hand, if we are not alone and there is someone or something more powerful out there, that too is terrifying.

As a NASA research scientist and now a professor of physics, I attended the 2002 NASA Contact Conference, which focused on serious speculation about extraterrestrials. During the meeting a concerned participant said loudly in a sinister tone, "You have absolutely no idea what is out there!" The silence was palpable as the truth of this statement sunk in. Humans are fearful of extraterrestrials visiting Earth. Perhaps fortunately, the distances between the stars are prohibitively vast. At least this is what we novices, who are just learning to travel into space, tell ourselves.

I have always been interested in UFOs. Of course, there was the excitement that there could be aliens and other living worlds. But more exciting to me was the possibility that interstellar travel was technologically achievable. In 1988, during my second week of graduate school at Montana State University, several students and I were discussing a recent cattle mutilation that was associated with UFOs. A physics professor joined the conversation and told us that he had colleagues working at Malmstrom Air Force Base in Great Falls, Montana, where they were having problems with UFOs shutting down nuclear missiles. At the time I thought this professor was talking nonsense. But 20 years later, I was stunned to see a recording of a press conference featuring several former US Air Force personnel, with a couple from Malmstrom AFB, describing similar occurrences in the 1960s. Clearly there must be something to this.

With July 2 being World UFO Day, it is a good time for society to address the unsettling and refreshing fact we may not be alone. I believe we need to face the possibility that some of the strange flying objects that outperform the best aircraft in our inventory and defy explanation may indeed be visitors from afar – and there's plenty of evidence to support UFO sightings.

See also: Released FAA recording reveals pilot report of a UFO over Long Island
I-Team Exclusive: Nevada senator fought to save secret UFO program

Related: Pentagon's UFO Investigation Program Revealed
UFO Existence 'Proven Beyond Reasonable Doubt': Former Head Of Pentagon Program
Newly-Released Video Shows 2015 U.S. Navy Sighting of UFO


Original Submission

Department of Defense AATIP Funded Research Into Wormholes, Invisibility, and Interstellar Travel 17 comments

The Government's Secret UFO Program Funded Research on Wormholes and Extra Dimensions

The Department of Defense funded research on wormholes, invisibility cloaking, and "the manipulation of extra dimensions" under its shadowy Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, first described in 2017 by the New York Times and the Washington Post.

On Wednesday, the Defense Intelligence Agency released a list of 38 research titles pursued by the program in response to a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request by Steven Aftergood, director of the Federation of American Scientists' Project on Government Secrecy.

[...] One such research topic, "Traversable Wormholes, Stargates, and Negative Energy," was led by Eric W. Davis of EarthTech International Inc, which describes itself as a facility "exploring the forefront reaches of science and engineering," with an interest in theories of spacetime, studies of the quantum vacuum, and the search for extraterrestrial intelligence.

Another project called "Invisibility Cloaking" was helmed by German scientist Ulf Leonhardt, a professor at the Weizmann Institute of Science in Israel. Leonhardt's research pertains to theoretical quantum optics, and in 2006 his work on theoretically creating "an invisible 'hole' in space, inside which objects can be hidden" was cited by Nature.

Yet another title, "Warp Drive, Dark Energy, and the Manipulation of Extra Dimensions," was attributed to theoretical physicist Richard Obousy, director of the nonprofit Icarus Interstellar, which claims to be "researching technologies that will enable breakthroughs in interstellar travel." Obousy was credited by Gizmodo in 2009 for creating "a scientifically accurate warpship design" that could hypothetically be propelled through space by manipulating dark energy.

Also at Teslarati.

Previously: Pentagon's UFO Investigation Program Revealed
UFO Existence 'Proven Beyond Reasonable Doubt': Former Head Of Pentagon Program
Newly-Released Video Shows 2015 U.S. Navy Sighting of UFO

Related: Are We Alone? The Question is Worthy of Serious Scientific Study


Original Submission

The Pentagon Has Continued to Investigate UFOs Under Renamed Program 81 comments

No Longer in Shadows, Pentagon's U.F.O. Unit Will Make Some Findings Public (archive)

Despite Pentagon statements that it disbanded a once-covert program to investigate unidentified flying objects, the effort remains underway — renamed and tucked inside the Office of Naval Intelligence, where officials continue to study mystifying encounters between military pilots and unidentified aerial vehicles.

Pentagon officials will not discuss the program, which is not classified but deals with classified matters. Yet it appeared last month in a Senate committee report outlining spending on the nation's intelligence agencies for the coming year. The report said the program, the Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon Task Force, was "to standardize collection and reporting" on sightings of unexplained aerial vehicles, and was to report at least some of its findings to the public within 180 days after passage of the intelligence authorization act.

While retired officials involved with the effort — including Harry Reid, the former Senate majority leader — hope the program will seek evidence of vehicles from other worlds, its main focus is on discovering whether another nation, especially any potential adversary, is using breakout aviation technology that could threaten the United States.

The lede has been buried for your protection. Do not RTFA.

Previously: Pentagon's UFO Investigation Program Revealed
UFO Existence 'Proven Beyond Reasonable Doubt': Former Head Of Pentagon Program
Newly-Released Video Shows 2015 U.S. Navy Sighting of UFO
The US Navy is Drafting New Rules to Report UFO Sightings
US Navy Spokesman Acknowledges UFO Videos
The Pentagon Releases Official Footage of UFOs. No, Seriously!


Original Submission

You Can Now Easily Download All CIA UFO Documents to Date 20 comments

You Can Now Easily Download All CIA UFO Documents to Date:

In anticipation of the government’s official UFO report coming in less than six months thanks to the COVID-19 omnibus bill, you can now download all of the publicly available CIA documentation on UFOs.

The Black Vault, a clearinghouse for declassified documents, has released a downloadable document archive filled with PDFs containing CIA files on Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP), the government's preferred term. . Some of the reports date all the way back to the 1980s, and according to the site's founder, John Greenewald Jr., the spy agency claims this is all of its documents on UAPs.

[...] “Around 20 years ago, I had fought for years to get additional UFO records released from the CIA,” Greenewald said in an email to Motherboard. “It was like pulling teeth! I went around and around with them to try and do so, finally achieving it. I received a large box, of a couple thousand pages, and I had to scan them in one page at a time.”

[...] “Plain and simple, the public has a right to know!” Greenewald said. “When I began researching nearly 25 years ago at the age of 15, I knew there was something to this topic. Not because of viral internet hoaxes. Not because of back door meetings wherein I can’t tell you who, but I promise it was mind-blowing information. No, none of that. It was simply because of the evidence that I got straight from the CIA. And the NSA. And the Air Force. And the DIA. I feel I am achieving what I set out to do. Easy access, to important material, for people to make up their own minds on what is going on.”


Original Submission

Ex-Official Who Revealed UFO Project Accuses Pentagon of "Disinformation" Campaign 35 comments

Ex-official who revealed UFO project accuses Pentagon of 'disinformation' campaign

The former Pentagon official who went public about reports of UFOs has filed a complaint with the agency's inspector general claiming a coordinated campaign to discredit him for speaking out — including accusing a top official of threatening to tell people he was "crazy," according to documents reviewed by POLITICO.

Lue Elizondo, a career counterintelligence specialist who was assigned in 2008 to work for a Pentagon program that investigated reports of "unmanned aerial phenomena," filed the 64-page complaint to the independent watchdog on May 3 and has met several times with investigators, according to his legal team.

The claim that the government is trying to discredit him comes weeks before the director of national intelligence and the Pentagon are expected to deliver an unclassified report to Congress about UFOs and the government's strategy for investigating such encounters. The report is expected to include a detailed accounting of the agencies, personnel and surveillance systems that gather and analyze the data.

"What he is saying is there are certain individuals in the Defense Department who in fact were attacking him and lying about him publicly, using the color of authority of their offices to disparage him and discredit him and were interfering in his ability to seek and obtain gainful employment out in the world," said Daniel Sheehan, Elizondo's attorney. "And also threatening his security clearance."

Pentagon UFO videos.

Previously:


Original Submission

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  • (Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 12 2018, @08:18PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 12 2018, @08:18PM (#651502)

    It's just the 3:30 Anunnaki shuttle to parking orbit. Nothing much to see. That one tends to be a little early, so make sure to be at the ground transfer station by 3:15.

    Oh, and that's standard galactic coordinated time. You'll have to pick up the beacon from the 3rd tier server orbiting Barnard's star, though the Saturn fatline is a 5th tier if you don't mind a little jitter. (Sol is a bit backwater for a 3rd tier time server.)

    Sufficiently advanced technology that works like pure fucking magic, and there's still no way to prevent clock skew or get shuttles to fucking keep to their shedule.

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by khallow on Monday March 12 2018, @08:20PM (42 children)

    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday March 12 2018, @08:20PM (#651504) Journal
    The image in question doesn't change as the video progresses (neither shrinking or growing in size nor changing its shape, potato-shaped with a lump or triangle sticking out on the bottom, over the course of 30 seconds - the second link shows the half minute video clip of the image being locked after the third or so try and then followed). That indicates to me that the image is produced by the imaging equipment itself, possibly in interaction with other electronics on the jet, rather than being an external phenomenon.
    • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Monday March 12 2018, @08:24PM (4 children)

      by Thexalon (636) on Monday March 12 2018, @08:24PM (#651509)

      Yeah, it looked a lot to me like "bug or speck of dust on the lens".

      --
      The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
      • (Score: 2) by ilPapa on Monday March 12 2018, @10:32PM (3 children)

        by ilPapa (2366) on Monday March 12 2018, @10:32PM (#651558) Journal

        Yeah, it looked a lot to me like "bug or speck of dust on the lens".

        Right. It has to be swamp gas or a weather balloon, amirite?

        Why is it that pop skeptics are unable to say, "I just don't know"?

        --
        You are still welcome on my lawn.
        • (Score: 4, Funny) by SubiculumHammer on Monday March 12 2018, @10:40PM (2 children)

          by SubiculumHammer (5191) on Monday March 12 2018, @10:40PM (#651565)

          I don't know, it looks like a smooshed bug on a lens.

          • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 13 2018, @05:26AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 13 2018, @05:26AM (#651687)

            We're being invaded by smooshed alien bugs, run!

          • (Score: 2) by frojack on Tuesday March 13 2018, @07:55AM

            by frojack (1554) on Tuesday March 13 2018, @07:55AM (#651721) Journal

            Looks like a sun burned ccd. I've ruined a camera that way just that way, shooting the sun, just last year.

            It's no more convincing today than it was 2+ years ago, the last time it was "released for the first time".

            In fact I think it appeared here on SN. Dupe.

            --
            No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 12 2018, @08:38PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 12 2018, @08:38PM (#651515)

      This would be a good explanation if the pilots were looking
      through a camera the whole time; but AFAIK they were flying
      in daylight, looking out their window, and using the camera to
      track the object.

      • (Score: 2, Interesting) by khallow on Monday March 12 2018, @09:23PM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday March 12 2018, @09:23PM (#651529) Journal
        I gather they were using a heads up display which might display the artifact consistently as well. But if they obtained multiple contacts of the object, that does make it more interesting.
    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by PartTimeZombie on Monday March 12 2018, @08:46PM (33 children)

      by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Monday March 12 2018, @08:46PM (#651519)

      I'm not really buying it either, except that the Cruiser's radar saw something also.

      The article was written by a man with a conflict of interest as he seems to represent a company looking to get some sweet sweet taxpayer's money to "study" this.

      I would love it to be aliens, but it probably isn't.

      • (Score: 2, Funny) by tftp on Monday March 12 2018, @09:24PM

        by tftp (806) on Monday March 12 2018, @09:24PM (#651531) Homepage
        That's what a tribe of hunter-gatherers will be saying when we visit their planet and start exploring it, flying lots of automatic and human-operated antigravity crafts.
      • (Score: 3, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Monday March 12 2018, @09:26PM (31 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday March 12 2018, @09:26PM (#651532) Journal

        Conflict of interest. That's something of a bitch, isn't it? The empirical "evidence" sometimes seem overwhelming. So very many people have see "flying saucers", and a reasonable number of them seem credible. But, who to believe? The whole thing, starting with the foo fighters in our grandparent's day, COULD BE just one big conspiracy, awaiting the proper time to unfold. Not that I believe that, but it's almost as reasonable as some other theories. (We've already had a line of discussion here in this thread mocking the anal probe people.)

        People like us have no idea WHO to believe, let alone WHAT to believe. And, I presume that is exactly the way Gubbermint wants it.

        The idea that all these things are supernatural manifestations of the devil and demons is kind of appealing. The sort of creatures you find in Washington would have no problem consorting with Satan.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 12 2018, @09:50PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 12 2018, @09:50PM (#651544)

          generally speaking, people don't go out of the to spend money, time and resources to deliberately create a result that works against their interests. So there is no conflict unless their interests are not their own? If so, whose interests are they?

          If it is a common interest, one that they you and me all share, no one does that anymore because then its called fake news if there is no corporate or political sponsor directly tied to it.

        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by FatPhil on Monday March 12 2018, @10:26PM (29 children)

          by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Monday March 12 2018, @10:26PM (#651555) Homepage
          You don't find it weird that now everyone's got a 10MP camera in their pocket there are fewer and fewer sightings of UFOs? The best images we have are the ones of the flying soup bowl and dustbin lid from the 50s.
          --
          Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
          • (Score: 2, Interesting) by ilPapa on Monday March 12 2018, @10:36PM (24 children)

            by ilPapa (2366) on Monday March 12 2018, @10:36PM (#651560) Journal

            You don't find it weird that now everyone's got a 10MP camera in their pocket there are fewer and fewer sightings of UFOs?

            The number of UFO sightings has gone up. It's more than three times higher than it was in 1990.

            Here's a guy who's made some visualizations of the data from NUFORC, a national database of reported sightings.

            https://vizthis.wordpress.com/2017/02/21/i-want-to-believe-ufo-sightings-around-the-world/ [wordpress.com]

            --
            You are still welcome on my lawn.
            • (Score: 5, Interesting) by wonkey_monkey on Tuesday March 13 2018, @12:27AM (23 children)

              by wonkey_monkey (279) on Tuesday March 13 2018, @12:27AM (#651594) Homepage

              The number of reports of UFO sightings has gone up. As the author says, though not in the context I'm using it:

              Maybe it’s related to Internet access. You have to have Internet access to submit a report, after all.

              The explosion in reports coincides fairly nicely with the explosion of the internet through the 90s. People communicate more and on a more global scale than ever before since the arrival of the internet. It's far easier to report a UFO sighting than it ever has been before. People who would never have bothered to pick up the phone or write a letter feel no compunction against filling in an online form or clicking a few buttons.

              The point about the ubiquity of cameras against the continuing paucity of decent evidence is well made and still stands.

              --
              systemd is Roko's Basilisk
              • (Score: 2) by wonkey_monkey on Tuesday March 13 2018, @12:36AM

                by wonkey_monkey (279) on Tuesday March 13 2018, @12:36AM (#651598) Homepage

                I should add that the internet also makes it far easier for the National UFO Reprting Center, which some would say may not be entirely objective on this matter (and is not government-run, as the name might suggest), to solicit said reports in the first place.

                --
                systemd is Roko's Basilisk
              • (Score: 2) by ilPapa on Tuesday March 13 2018, @01:38AM (20 children)

                by ilPapa (2366) on Tuesday March 13 2018, @01:38AM (#651620) Journal

                The explosion in reports coincides fairly nicely with the explosion of the internet through the 90s.

                Right, people didn't have access to electronic communications before 1990. MUFON has been collecting and investigating sightings since 1968...by telephone.

                But at least we're making progress here. First, it was "why are there so many fewer sightings today" and we've at least now gotten to, "well, there are lots more sightings today but that's only because people weren't able to communicate before 1990".

                Pop skeptics always got an excuse. Always. They're never able to say, "I dunno", or even, "we need more information". They just refer to their well-worn list of excuses.

                --
                You are still welcome on my lawn.
                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday March 13 2018, @11:56AM (7 children)

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 13 2018, @11:56AM (#651779) Journal

                  Pop skeptics always got an excuse. Always. They're never able to say, "I dunno", or even, "we need more information". They just refer to their well-worn list of excuses.

                  The problem here is if it doesn't passes the "well-worn list", then it just isn't evidence in the first place. At that point, you're just wasting the time of those "pop skeptics". For example, we have here a 30 second video with little context to it with the alleged UFO being just a blurry oval.

                  Right, people didn't have access to electronic communications before 1990.

                  It's not the communications that has changed. It's the fact that so many people are carrying cell phones with built in cameras.

                  • (Score: 2) by ilPapa on Tuesday March 13 2018, @05:33PM (6 children)

                    by ilPapa (2366) on Tuesday March 13 2018, @05:33PM (#651892) Journal

                    It's not the communications that has changed. It's the fact that so many people are carrying cell phones with built in cameras.

                    That's the point, khallow. The original post said, "With all the cameras in cell phones, why have reported UFO sightings gone down?" In fact, they not only did not "go down" but they've increased three-fold.

                    You will hear pop skeptics say this all the time: "People have cell phones, so why aren't there more UFO sightings reported?" when they know very well the number of sightings has increased. This is the influence of the Amazing Randi, Penn&Teller school of faux skepticism: never argue in good faith, and never, ever really be skeptical of anything. Certainty bordering on religious fervor is the opposite of skepticism.

                    --
                    You are still welcome on my lawn.
                    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by wonkey_monkey on Tuesday March 13 2018, @05:54PM (1 child)

                      by wonkey_monkey (279) on Tuesday March 13 2018, @05:54PM (#651900) Homepage

                      It's rather telling, still, that the amount and quality of actual evidence doesn't seem to have kept up with the increase in reports, nor with the ubiquity of devices that could gather such evidence.

                      --
                      systemd is Roko's Basilisk
                      • (Score: 2) by ilPapa on Tuesday March 13 2018, @06:50PM

                        by ilPapa (2366) on Tuesday March 13 2018, @06:50PM (#651931) Journal

                        It's rather telling, still, that the amount and quality of actual evidence doesn't seem to have kept up with the increase in reports, nor with the ubiquity of devices that could gather such evidence.

                        And you're basing that on what data, exactly?

                        --
                        You are still welcome on my lawn.
                    • (Score: 2, Informative) by khallow on Tuesday March 13 2018, @08:11PM (3 children)

                      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 13 2018, @08:11PM (#651971) Journal

                      That's the point, khallow. The original post said, "With all the cameras in cell phones, why have reported UFO sightings gone down?" In fact, they not only did not "go down" but they've increased three-fold.

                      Actually no one said that. That earlier post [soylentnews.org] spoke of "sightings of UFOs" not "reported sightings of UFOs". I don't consider the latter to be representative of the actual number of supposed sightings of UFOs (particularly, since it's just US residents reporting UFOs - 300 times as many reports by roughly 4% of the global population means over 90% are coming from the US - probably from a small minority of the population as well).

                      Here's the actual post:

                      You don't find it weird that now everyone's got a 10MP camera in their pocket there are fewer and fewer sightings of UFOs? The best images we have are the ones of the flying soup bowl and dustbin lid from the 50s.

                      To give you an idea of the problem here, we have amateurs imaging [nasa.gov] satellites in orbit to several meter resolution. We have somewhere around 15-25% of the entire world population carrying a cell phone, most with a camera attached. So where's the high quality photos of those UFOs?

                      • (Score: 2) by ilPapa on Tuesday March 13 2018, @09:25PM (2 children)

                        by ilPapa (2366) on Tuesday March 13 2018, @09:25PM (#652010) Journal

                        That earlier post [soylentnews.org] spoke of "sightings of UFOs" not "reported sightings of UFOs".

                        If he's not talking about reported sightings, then how does he know there are fewer and fewer of them?

                        --
                        You are still welcome on my lawn.
                        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday March 13 2018, @11:27PM (1 child)

                          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 13 2018, @11:27PM (#652050) Journal
                          He already mentioned one way, high quality pictures of the alleged UFOs. If we're not getting them despite the alleged surge in reported sightings, then are we really getting an increase in reported sightings?
                          • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Wednesday March 14 2018, @02:11AM

                            by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Wednesday March 14 2018, @02:11AM (#652115) Homepage
                            Thank you for taking my somewhat hastily typed out argument and fleshing it out properly.
                            --
                            Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
                • (Score: 2) by wonkey_monkey on Tuesday March 13 2018, @05:52PM (11 children)

                  by wonkey_monkey (279) on Tuesday March 13 2018, @05:52PM (#651899) Homepage

                  But at least we're making progress here. First, it was "why are there so many fewer sightings today" and we've at least now gotten to, "well, there are lots more sightings today but that's only because people weren't able to communicate before 1990".

                  Again, you've overlooked the overwhelmingly important operative word here - reported sightings.

                  For what it's worth, I don't agree that there are lots more sightings these days. I also never said or implied that people couldn't communicate before 1990. Stop being silly.

                  Right, people didn't have access to electronic communications before 1990. MUFON has been collecting and investigating sightings since 1968...by telephone.

                  And before that they could have done so by telegram, letter, smoke signal. The point is that the internet makes communication far, far easier. We've become much more used to communicating in this way. We'd never be having this discussion at all if not for the internet.

                  The number of people that I communicate with in other countries has skyrocketed since the spread of the internet. It doesn't mean there are that many more people in those other countries than there were 20 years ago.

                  --
                  systemd is Roko's Basilisk
                  • (Score: 2) by ilPapa on Tuesday March 13 2018, @06:55PM (10 children)

                    by ilPapa (2366) on Tuesday March 13 2018, @06:55PM (#651932) Journal

                    And before that they could have done so by telegram, letter, smoke signal. The point is that the internet makes communication far, far easier. We've become much more used to communicating in this way. We'd never be having this discussion at all if not for the internet.

                    Ah, but the contention is not about "having this discussion", it's about reporting UFO sightings.

                    How much easier is it to go to a website and fill out a rather extensive online form than it is to make a phone call? Is it easier by a factor of three?

                    The easiest thing of all is to say "I'm a skeptic" and, "the number of UFO sightings has decreased even though we have cell phones!". Blind belief is always easier than doing a little research before making a pronouncement.

                    --
                    You are still welcome on my lawn.
                    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday March 13 2018, @08:12PM (6 children)

                      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 13 2018, @08:12PM (#651973) Journal

                      How much easier is it to go to a website and fill out a rather extensive online form than it is to make a phone call?

                      It would be cheaper, let us note. And how will you find the phone number? Look at the website for contact information.

                      • (Score: 2) by ilPapa on Tuesday March 13 2018, @09:23PM (5 children)

                        by ilPapa (2366) on Tuesday March 13 2018, @09:23PM (#652009) Journal

                        It would be cheaper, let us note. And how will you find the phone number? Look at the website for contact information.

                        You're right, khallow. Prior to 1990, it was impossible for anyone to find a phone number. Too bad no one thought to create some sort of book, with pages, maybe make them yellow, and list phone numbers there.

                        How did we even live before the internet?

                        --
                        You are still welcome on my lawn.
                        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday March 13 2018, @11:21PM (4 children)

                          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 13 2018, @11:21PM (#652048) Journal

                          You're right, khallow. Prior to 1990, it was impossible for anyone to find a phone number.

                          Because something is either easy or impossible, amirite?

                          Let's consider the workflow here. Pre-1990, one would bug an operator or a librarian to get said long distance number. Maybe they'd have access to one of the USENET groups and post their question there. Eventually after consider effort and luck, they'd get the phone number and then pay a few bucks to call in.

                          Post-1990? Yahoo's hierarchy system and probably eventually Geocities. Now, they just google it and either drop an email or fill out a web form.

                          • (Score: 2) by ilPapa on Wednesday March 14 2018, @12:57AM (3 children)

                            by ilPapa (2366) on Wednesday March 14 2018, @12:57AM (#652089) Journal

                            Let's consider the workflow here. Pre-1990, one would bug an operator or a librarian to get said long distance number.

                            Actually, no. The pre-1990 workflow started with looking in a great big book that everybody had. It was called a "phone book", and yes, MUFON was in the phone book.

                            --
                            You are still welcome on my lawn.
                            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday March 14 2018, @03:57AM (2 children)

                              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday March 14 2018, @03:57AM (#652144) Journal

                              MUFON was in the phone book

                              There was no "the" phone book, but many phone books unique to each region and municipality. MUFON would not be in every phone book.

                              • (Score: 2) by ilPapa on Wednesday March 14 2018, @04:55AM (1 child)

                                by ilPapa (2366) on Wednesday March 14 2018, @04:55AM (#652155) Journal

                                There was no "the" phone book, but many phone books unique to each region and municipality. MUFON would not be in every phone book.

                                Believe it or not, it was in most phone books in the 800- section (there actually was one).

                                But generally, people who reported UFOs back then called their local police, who didn't want to deal with it so they passed the calls on to MUFON by giving out their phone number. One of the first things that MUFON after they were formed was liaise with local law enforcement down to county sheriff's and local municipal police.

                                Even the extremely popular "real" UFO TV shows of the 1980s and early 90s would show the MUFON number at the end of every episode.

                                --
                                You are still welcome on my lawn.
                                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday March 14 2018, @07:26AM

                                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday March 14 2018, @07:26AM (#652196) Journal

                                  But generally, people who reported UFOs back then called their local police, who didn't want to deal with it so they passed the calls on to MUFON by giving out their phone number. One of the first things that MUFON after they were formed was liaise with local law enforcement down to county sheriff's and local municipal police.

                                  Definitely just as simple as googling for their website.

                    • (Score: 2) by wonkey_monkey on Tuesday March 13 2018, @09:29PM (2 children)

                      by wonkey_monkey (279) on Tuesday March 13 2018, @09:29PM (#652012) Homepage

                      Ah, but the contention is not about "having this discussion", it's about reporting UFO sightings.

                      Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realise perfectly valid and useful analogies weren't allowed.

                      How much easier is it to go to a website and fill out a rather extensive online form than it is to make a phone call? Is it easier by a factor of three?

                      Before the internet, a lot of people wouldn't even have known where to look to find out who to report a UFO sighting to. It would just have become a weird tale told down at the bar.

                      The easiest thing of all is to say "I'm a skeptic" and, "the number of UFO sightings has decreased even though we have cell phones!". Blind belief is always easier than doing a little research before making a pronouncement.

                      I didn't say either of those things. The point I'm discussing is whether sightings - as opposed to reports of sightings, and reports to one specific organisation at that* - have risen.

                      What the poster who mentioned cell phones was saying was not said altogether clearly by his own admission, but as long as you're not a zealous pedant (and I say that as a pretty zealous pedant myself) it's pretty obvious what was meant and that it is a sage observation.

                      ------------

                      *To somewhat reiterate a point further up, the rise in reports to this one particular organisation could be solely down to the rise of said organisation's visibility (self-promoted or otherwise). If, say, a fast food chain reports that they've got 10 times as many customers as they did last year, do you assume it's because of a change in eating habits, or might you instead consider that it's because the chain opened 9 more locations?

                      --
                      systemd is Roko's Basilisk
                      • (Score: 2) by ilPapa on Tuesday March 13 2018, @11:11PM (1 child)

                        by ilPapa (2366) on Tuesday March 13 2018, @11:11PM (#652043) Journal

                        Before the internet, a lot of people wouldn't even have known where to look to find out who to report a UFO sighting to.

                        The 1980s were something of a golden age for ufo data collection. With the 1977 release of Close Encounters and E.T. in 1982, there was no decade with a higher awareness of UFOs among the general public. I'll bet more people knew what MUFON was in the 1980s than know about it today.

                        I didn't say either of those things. The point I'm discussing is whether sightings - as opposed to reports of sightings, and reports to one specific organisation at that* - have risen.

                        If they're not reported, then how are you going to count them? How do you go about comparing unreported sightings by decade? Telepathy? I thought you were a skeptic.

                        --
                        You are still welcome on my lawn.
              • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday March 13 2018, @08:07AM

                by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Tuesday March 13 2018, @08:07AM (#651723) Homepage
                Actually it wasn't well made - you made what I was trying to say far clearer than I did, thank you.
                --
                Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
          • (Score: 2) by romlok on Tuesday March 13 2018, @01:03AM

            by romlok (1241) on Tuesday March 13 2018, @01:03AM (#651608)

            Whenever humans discover some new place to research, there has been an immediate flurry of activity as all and sundry go for a look, take measurements, and gather samples. After a while, most of the important observations have been made, papers have been published, and natural history museums populated. So the number of researchers needed on-site tapers off, with only those doing longer-term studies returning with any regularity.

            Perhaps the grants for researching humanity all but ran out after the 60s?

          • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday March 13 2018, @02:28AM (2 children)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 13 2018, @02:28AM (#651633) Journal

            A cursory search seems to contradict your claim that there are fewer sightings today. One link claims that there are fewer sightings in Italy, while the remainder of the hits on different combinations of search terms seem to show an increase. I wonder if your claim of fewer sightings is just a perception, based on the fact that the news stations don't push those stories. Have you looked at Youtube? Mexico City had something strange in their skies, March third, this year. Another in Rio de Janeiro in January, 2018.

            Of course, browsing the results of a Youtube search for ufo sightings, you'll find an awful lot of just plain stupid bullshit. There are no filters on Youtube, or on news sources, for credibility.

            • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday March 13 2018, @08:10AM (1 child)

              by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Tuesday March 13 2018, @08:10AM (#651725) Homepage
              I should have included the adjective "credible" or should I say "not immediately dismissable" in my statement, I apologise. People are communicating a thousand times more, it's natural that the UFO babble in the noise floor would be increased proportionally too. But *we're missing the photos/videos* - which should be 10 times higher resolution than they were before. Maybe those clever aliens know about our camphones, and are deliberately staying 10 times further away from the potential observers?

              Aliens!
              --
              Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
              • (Score: 3, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday March 13 2018, @01:45PM

                by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 13 2018, @01:45PM (#651810) Journal

                staying 10 times further away from the potential observers?

                That's probably it. I mean, they've got to be pretty smart to fly here from wherever the hell they flew in from.

                "Oh, looky, Brzzldip, the humans have smartphones now! Isn't it cute? We obsoleted our smartphones about 30 millenia ago, and they have just discovered them!"

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 13 2018, @04:29PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 13 2018, @04:29PM (#651869)

      I call the hoax on this one. Cruise speed of fighter plane allegedly rushing forward to intercept unknown intruder is 0.55 Mach? Get out of here!

      The final frames are consistent with recording aircraft avoiding and *passing* the target, leaving it behind over the left flank. Camera plane is flying approximately toward West-southwest (Azimuth 247 degrees) at the start of the footage, and during the flight turns slightly clockwise, increasing the azimuth to 252 and finally the footage ends when azimuth is straight 253. If you imagine, or draw that on paper, you will see a trajectory of aiming at the target, then avoiding the collision and passing it, slightly to the right.

      I think this was just a training footage, with a dramatic overlay representing it as an UFO encounter.

  • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday March 12 2018, @08:21PM (1 child)

    by JoeMerchant (3937) on Monday March 12 2018, @08:21PM (#651505)

    This one is deep under wraps, complete with ridicule of those who purport to have personal experience, and likely compartmentalization of those who have actual experience. What's really going on? You're not going to know The Truth unless it visits you personally, or you get elected President with access to "the book."

    --
    🌻🌻 [google.com]
    • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 12 2018, @10:25PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 12 2018, @10:25PM (#651554)

      Attention WalMart hat shoppers! Sale on tinfoil in Aisle 7!

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Monday March 12 2018, @08:23PM (8 children)

    by Thexalon (636) on Monday March 12 2018, @08:23PM (#651507)

    Just because the military encounters things they can't identify doesn't mean that there are space aliens out there. It means that you saw something you don't understand, which is a much lower bar to clear.

    --
    The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 12 2018, @08:29PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 12 2018, @08:29PM (#651511)

      Are you saying it could be octoputin?

    • (Score: 2) by legont on Monday March 12 2018, @10:06PM

      by legont (4179) on Monday March 12 2018, @10:06PM (#651547)

      a much lower bar to clear

      It depends. CIA, Pentagon and liberal press declared Russian's new rockets nonexistent while they have never done it regarding space aliens. One should not underestimate the power of propaganda.

      --
      "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
    • (Score: 2) by ilPapa on Monday March 12 2018, @10:38PM (4 children)

      by ilPapa (2366) on Monday March 12 2018, @10:38PM (#651562) Journal

      Just because the military encounters things they can't identify doesn't mean that there are space aliens out there.

      The article doesn't mention "space aliens" or extraterrestrials.

      Nice strawman you got there.

      --
      You are still welcome on my lawn.
      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by takyon on Monday March 12 2018, @11:01PM (3 children)

        by takyon (881) <takyonNO@SPAMsoylentnews.org> on Monday March 12 2018, @11:01PM (#651572) Journal

        And where "aliens" are mentioned in the summary, it's in this context:

        But nobody wants to be "the alien guy" in the national security bureaucracy; nobody wants to be ridiculed or sidelined for drawing attention to the issue.

        --
        [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
        • (Score: 2) by ilPapa on Tuesday March 13 2018, @02:41AM (2 children)

          by ilPapa (2366) on Tuesday March 13 2018, @02:41AM (#651644) Journal

          He's not saying there are aliens. He's saying that there's stigma attached to even talking about UFOs because of the ridicule factor of the phony "skeptics", who are among the least skeptical people around.

          --
          You are still welcome on my lawn.
    • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 13 2018, @12:40PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 13 2018, @12:40PM (#651789)

      Just because the military encounters things they can't identify doesn't mean that there are space aliens out there. It means that you saw something you don't understand, which is a much lower bar to clear.

      So, can't identify, that would mean unidentified, right. And whatever it is, it appears to be flying, ok. And it seems to a thing, maybe an object of some kind. Whatever should we call it?

  • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 12 2018, @08:30PM (6 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 12 2018, @08:30PM (#651512)

    Coming to do anal probes on humans!

    Ooh! Ooh! Pick me! Pick me!

    I haven't had a good anal probes in months, since Alf (well, he was hairy and he said he was Alf) came by my house.

    Human pattern recognition (or creation, in the absence of a pattern) FTW!

    • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Monday March 12 2018, @09:00PM (3 children)

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Monday March 12 2018, @09:00PM (#651522) Journal

      Can they do a colonoscopy while they're in there? Probably cheaper than my insurance!

      • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Monday March 12 2018, @09:19PM (2 children)

        by bob_super (1357) on Monday March 12 2018, @09:19PM (#651528)

        The "colonoscopy" is free, but your favorite T-shirt, and the floor, get ruined by the chest-bursting delivery.
        Diagnosis is pretty much always the same: you will not die of cancer.

        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday March 12 2018, @09:28PM (1 child)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday March 12 2018, @09:28PM (#651533) Journal

          The chick on Prometheus solved the T-shirt and floor ruining problem. All we need to do is get one of those robo-doctors in every home on earth!

          • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Tuesday March 13 2018, @02:20PM

            by tangomargarine (667) on Tuesday March 13 2018, @02:20PM (#651820)

            And whatever drugs she got that enabled her to be up and running around the ship 5 minutes after getting a C-section.

            --
            "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 12 2018, @10:28PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 12 2018, @10:28PM (#651556)

      Dammit, Cartman, get back to school.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 13 2018, @05:41AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 13 2018, @05:41AM (#651694)

        Screw you guys, I'm going home!

  • (Score: 2) by turgid on Monday March 12 2018, @10:18PM

    by turgid (4318) Subscriber Badge on Monday March 12 2018, @10:18PM (#651550) Journal

    Rock bottom, rock bottom, duh dah duh dah dah!!!

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Lester on Monday March 12 2018, @10:37PM (3 children)

    by Lester (6231) on Monday March 12 2018, @10:37PM (#651561) Journal

    I'm not very interested un the vídeo, I'm more interested in the sentence

    nobody wants to be "the alien guy"

    So, when case when there is a case without a clear explanación, it is silently forgotten. And there may be a heap of unexplained cases that nobody dares to investigare futher.

    Sad, really sad

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 13 2018, @12:42AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 13 2018, @12:42AM (#651601)

      So, when case when there is a case without a clear explanación, it is silently forgotten. And there may be a heap of unexplained cases that nobody dares to investigare futher.

      Sad, really sad

      Cover up! Cover Up!

      Jade Helm! FEMA Concentration Camps! Agenda 21!

      They're lying to you! The truth is out there!

      Re-open the X Files!

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 13 2018, @06:56PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 13 2018, @06:56PM (#651933)

        JFK. Blown away.
        What else to I have to say...

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 13 2018, @05:46PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 13 2018, @05:46PM (#651897)

      this is what i noticed in the summary as well. i'm glad our national security stance is decided by hilarious, peer pressure.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 12 2018, @11:00PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 12 2018, @11:00PM (#651571)

    Perhaps a meteor or other space debris falling to Earth at a shallow angle?

  • (Score: 2) by Bot on Monday March 12 2018, @11:31PM (1 child)

    by Bot (3902) on Monday March 12 2018, @11:31PM (#651578) Journal

    >the footage was released Friday by To the Stars Academy of Arts and Science (TTSA), a private scientific research and media group. It is led by Dr. Hal Puthoff
    >Dr. Hal Puthoff
    >Hal

    cue the kettledrums
    >dum dam dum dam dum dam dum dam dum

    but seriously let's work out the possibilities
    Aliens:****
    Hostile nation advanced aircrafts doing test runs where the enemy can spot them:*
    Chinese doing test run of the backdoors they managed to put on US Navy software:***************************************************************************************************************

    --
    Account abandoned.
    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by HiThere on Tuesday March 13 2018, @01:16AM

      by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 13 2018, @01:16AM (#651610) Journal

      The problem I have with this is that "Dr. Hal Puthoff" has a long history of not being very accurate. IIRC he was one of the people pushing Uri Geller.

      --
      Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
  • (Score: 1) by realDonaldTrump on Tuesday March 13 2018, @03:18AM

    by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Tuesday March 13 2018, @03:18AM (#651656) Homepage Journal

    Subject to the receipt of further information, I will be allowing, as President, the long blocked and classified JFK FILES to be opened. Stay tuned!!!! #TrumpTV [twitter.com]

  • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 13 2018, @04:58AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 13 2018, @04:58AM (#651685)

    Trump's hair phoned home.

(1)