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posted by janrinok on Thursday March 22 2018, @06:44AM   Printer-friendly
from the we're-the-good-guys,-honest dept.

The Guardian mentions that the Gold Coast council in Australia, where next month's Commonwealth Games are hosted, will use a new city WiFi service to harvest Facebook data from visitors.

The data mining, which the council says is legal and will be used to help the city market itself to tourists, relies on visitors using their Facebook accounts to log into a new high-speed WiFi service. Users who object to sharing their Facebook data can still access the free WiFi, but the speed will be much slower and downloads restricted.

The city switched on the wifi service in the tourist hubs of Surfers Paradise, Southport and Broadbeach on Tuesday, 15 days ahead of the Games opening ceremony. It spent $5m to build its own infrastructure for the Games due to concerns about the speed and rollout of the national broadband network.

A city spokeswoman insisted the council would only make "limited use" of the data it mined from tourists. She insisted data would not be shared with "other agencies" although reports about tourist activity based on the information could be made available to the tourism sector "and other sectors as appropriate".

"The most important information is about country of origin, to better understand the use by overseas tourists, who are one of the primary target groups for the service," the spokeswoman said.

"The city will be able to understand patterns of demand and use, including how many people are accessing the service, times of day and the amounts of data used. It will also be very useful for understanding numbers during events and seasonal effects."


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  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 22 2018, @07:00AM (4 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 22 2018, @07:00AM (#656502)

    Or the login page could have had 2 to 3 fields: Name, Country of Origin, Have you completed this form before? and they would have gotten the same information the summary claims they wanted without having to deal with 3rd parties.

    I don't trust them, especially since they're limiting speeds of the other people. This is a slippery slope. How long until Facebook becomes a gateway to most of the net? You don't have to mandate national/internet id numbers if service providers all decide to only allow people with Facebook or Google services to use their services.

    Her words don't matter. Where's the law/contract saying, in clear language instead of weasel words, what data is being collected and how it'll be used for how long?

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by anubi on Thursday March 22 2018, @07:15AM (2 children)

      by anubi (2828) on Thursday March 22 2018, @07:15AM (#656508) Journal

      I guess giving up yet more of your privacy is part of the price of admission.

      They can state whatever businesstalk they want. You have the option of saying NO and just avoiding the place.

      If significant people did the latter, businesses would think twice about putting in these kind of requirements, just as people think twice about showing up at a job interview unshaven and in need of a bath.

      They obviously have a "phuck-yew" attitude because "olympics!", and think people are between a rock and a hard place. If enough people found what they are doing objectionable enough to choose the next alternative ( sometimes the only winning move is not to play - How about a nice game of Chess? ), they will change.

      The powers that be *will* impose until the people say "enough", just as a child tests its parent's tolerance to find out where the boundaries are.

      --
      "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 22 2018, @10:57PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 22 2018, @10:57PM (#656905)

        If significant people did the latter

        Yet they don't, and because of that, people who don't even use these privacy-invading services (like me) are affected as well. For example, if a picture is taken of you without your permission and uploaded to Spybook, your name might be tagged and facial recognition algorithms will analyze the photo. The mass adoption of monstrous surveillance engines like Facebook allows everyone's privacy to be violated, whether they use it or not. We need real regulations that will stop these companies from collecting and selling the data in the first place, as they are harmful to privacy and democracy. It's not enough to just say 'don't use these services'; most people don't listen, so we need real solutions that take into account actual human behavior. The problem is, many governments are controlled by corporations and/or are accepting of these types of services, so good luck. Even European-style privacy laws are not enough to stop companies like Facebook.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 23 2018, @06:39AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 23 2018, @06:39AM (#657039)

          I used to get so furious about my "friends" "caring" enough about me to send me an "e-card" on my birthday using those internet card services. I know good and well my birthdate is an identity verifier that is easily used to cause a lot of problems for ME, when people create a financial obligation in my name. I am quite aware a lot of people out there are damned good at this. Then these friends would consider ME the sourpuss for getting upset about it. I would not tell anybody what my birthday was, unless I legally HAD to. All these "store promotions" that would exchange my name/birthday for a "free" something, I'd give them the wrong data just to poison the database. I had just as soon give them my social security number. Its not that I am hiding anything, its just I don't wanna be so stupid as to disclose my location to a predatory animal. I am doing nothing more wrong than a mouse hiding from a cat.

          One sore spot in me is that I seem to have no right to control distribution of data I generate, but my Congress seems to think businesses have the right to control how I use data THEY generate.

          I do not mean to imply to say *anybody* has any right whatsoever to enforce ignorance of their bad reputation. What I do want to illustrate is what an unfair playing field we create when we base our ability to employ ourselves on our ability to get permission to work, because knowledge of how to do something is not enough, someone else has already claimed "rights" to do it, therefore I cannot unless he says its OK. Can you imagine ONE plumber in town getting in cahoots with the Government so as to keep any other plumber from doing any work? Then everyone has to go underground to change out a leaky washer, hoping the rightsholder does not discover you have illegally modified your plumbing and violated his business model, which was to charge $500 for the job.

          In my mind, Congress is in abeyance of the Pledge of Allegiance... specifically the last three words of it, which were what was pledged to in the first three words of it.

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Sarasani on Thursday March 22 2018, @07:32AM

      by Sarasani (3283) on Thursday March 22 2018, @07:32AM (#656510)

      I don't trust them

      Considering that Gold Coast City Council members are being investigated for corruption [abc.net.au], it would be safe to conclude that you're not alone in your distrust.

  • (Score: 2) by MostCynical on Thursday March 22 2018, @07:10AM (2 children)

    by MostCynical (2589) on Thursday March 22 2018, @07:10AM (#656507) Journal

    Government offers free wifi
    User gets free wifi for facebook data
    Data from facebook goes to Cambridge Analytica, and/or others
    Cambridge Analytica and/or others sell data to governments/political parties

    Round and round the internet, like a data bear..

    --
    "I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by c0lo on Thursday March 22 2018, @07:45AM

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Thursday March 22 2018, @07:45AM (#656513) Journal

      This time it behaved like a dump bear [abc.net.au]:

      Gold Coast council dumps plan to mine Facebook data from Commonwealth Games visitors using free wi-fi

      For Indians, it still looked like a drop bear [scroll.in].

      For others, it looked like a red bear in front of a bull [brisbanetimes.com.au]

      Fury over plan to mine Facebook data at Commonwealth Games
      ...
      The plan has outraged the Queensland Council for Civil Liberties, , which says privacy laws prohibit data collection unless it's necessary for council purposes.

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
    • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Thursday March 22 2018, @11:16AM

      by Gaaark (41) on Thursday March 22 2018, @11:16AM (#656553) Journal

      One click, two click, fuck you under there!

      --
      --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Sarasani on Thursday March 22 2018, @07:25AM (10 children)

    by Sarasani (3283) on Thursday March 22 2018, @07:25AM (#656509)

    The Gold Coast City Council has already backtracked on this nefarious plan [brisbanetimes.com.au]. Their stated reason for doing so:

    "Only today, the Facebook CEO has confirmed that he is investigating privacy issues to do with Facebook and how it manages people's privacy. So if Facebook cannot guarantee the security of its users, it is best council takes a cautionary approach and removes this feature from our free wi-fi. That is what we are doing right now."

    Something tells me that the council's motivation for backtracking may very well have to do with their data mining plan gaining media attention. And yes, in light of current backlash against Facebook, such a plan does not look good.

    • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 22 2018, @07:35AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 22 2018, @07:35AM (#656511)

      On ABC [abc.net.au]

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Thursday March 22 2018, @07:47AM (8 children)

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Thursday March 22 2018, @07:47AM (#656514) Journal

      I like how the motivation blames Facebook, when the guys planned to suck in then mine the data themselves.

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by MostCynical on Thursday March 22 2018, @08:55AM (7 children)

        by MostCynical (2589) on Thursday March 22 2018, @08:55AM (#656523) Journal

        Yes, but blaming facebook might make some people hink they *weren't* going to slurp up all the data.

        Also, now they have to write all sorts of sniffers and IP trace programs to put on their wifi boxes - the data just got alot more expensive, especially as they only have a few weeks to get the new stuff installed.

        --
        "I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday March 22 2018, @09:16AM (5 children)

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Thursday March 22 2018, @09:16AM (#656528) Journal

          Yes, but blaming facebook might make some people hink they *weren't* going to slurp up all the data.

          That would be the normal reaction - put a spin on it.
          However, I won't discount the possibility they actually believe what they said (as dumb as it may be) - don't forget they are political creatures and the political games aren't conducive to a deep understanding of what "data mining" and "big data" and "artificial intelligence" actually mean.

          Also, now they have to write all sorts of sniffers and IP trace programs to put on their wifi boxes...

          If they are semi-literates in IT, they may actually waste the public money in doing it - with HTTPS almost everywhere (FB and Google especially) packet sniffers will be useless.
          An HTTP proxy would be the best they could do to capture the browsing history - nothing different from what our ISP do to obey the "metadata retention" laws we have now.

           

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
          • (Score: 2) by MostCynical on Thursday March 22 2018, @09:26AM (3 children)

            by MostCynical (2589) on Thursday March 22 2018, @09:26AM (#656530) Journal

            so, is he value the facebook-limked marketing/personality insights, and/or the location/marketing opportunities to be fed into the feeds, or something else?

            If the first two, facebook is essential. If the "something else", then maybe they can still extract data (value) from "free" wifi.

            --
            "I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
            • (Score: 3, Interesting) by c0lo on Thursday March 22 2018, @09:47AM (2 children)

              by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Thursday March 22 2018, @09:47AM (#656532) Journal

              Some info on behaviour can be inferred from the location and the WiFI point can offer a vague idea about the location (less capability for triangulation than mobile protocols, I believe). Yes, the MAC address is useful as an ID, but capturing it doesn't require a special packet sniffer;even a consumer grade WiFI router can tell you what MACs are connected.

              The actual identity and nationality of the user can only be gathered from FB (or any site that stores enough personal info and discloses it to an App).

              --
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
              • (Score: 4, Insightful) by MostCynical on Thursday March 22 2018, @09:57AM (1 child)

                by MostCynical (2589) on Thursday March 22 2018, @09:57AM (#656537) Journal

                So, just like shopping centres and anywhere else offering "free" wifi, there is no value without the facebook login for promoted "likes" in your friends' feeds, and ads in the post-login screen, with some datamining about behaviour from facebook.

                I suspect the games organisers will offer free wifi at a bit-better-than-the-original-plan "low speed" and accept they only get ads on login/fine print screens, and the only data available depends on people giving them a real email address.

                --
                "I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
                • (Score: 2) by Sarasani on Thursday March 22 2018, @02:37PM

                  by Sarasani (3283) on Thursday March 22 2018, @02:37PM (#656608)

                  A somewhat relevant quote (albeit about facial recognition) from the book "The Aisles Have Eyes" by Joseph Turow:

                  Finally, Schuman advanced the possibility that the facial recognition process might be installed outside the physical store as well as inside: “What if [a retail] chain pushes some attractive incentives to get lots of customers and prospects to download its free mobile app? And buried in the terms and conditions is the right for the app to monitor images?” All these recognition approaches would better enable merchants to identify customers entering their store and offer them customized service and deals based on their shopping histories and the retailer’s calculation of their long-term value to the business. And while accuracy remains a problem today, Schuman said, “look for this technology to get an order of magnitude more accurate over the next couple of years.” As the technology continues to develop, he noted, “the privacy—and associated shopper backlash—risks are obvious.” Nevertheless, he contended, “shoppers (especially younger shoppers) seem to have developed an almost infinite capacity for tolerating such efforts. Make the incentive strong enough—and use the data in subtle enough ways so that you’re not forcing the customer to know how far you’ve gone—and privacy will be a trivial concern. Not saying that it should be a trivial concern, but merely our belief that it will be.” Indeed, over ten years ago retail consultant Karl Bjornson observed that the success of facial recognition systems could well depend on whether the public could be convinced to accept recognition technology as a way to secure their identity and enable them to receive special offers.

                  (Emphasis mine)

          • (Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Thursday March 22 2018, @10:04PM

            by fido_dogstoyevsky (131) <axehandleNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Thursday March 22 2018, @10:04PM (#656892)

            ...However, I won't discount the possibility they actually believe what they said (as dumb as it may be) - don't forget they are political creatures and the political games aren't conducive to a deep understanding of what "data mining" and "big data" and "artificial intelligence" actually mean...

            We ARE talking about the state that gave us the J B-P [wikipedia.org] era.

            If they are semi-literates in IT, they may actually waste the public money in doing it...

            In this case incompetence may well be as important as malice. They are political creatures and words they hear mean whatever they want them to mean.

            --
            It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 22 2018, @10:38AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 22 2018, @10:38AM (#656544)

          Write? Just get a few off the shelf or from open source

  • (Score: 1) by noneof_theabove on Thursday March 22 2018, @12:22PM (1 child)

    by noneof_theabove (6189) on Thursday March 22 2018, @12:22PM (#656564)

    Rule #1: DO NOT CONNECT with mobile data or wifi TO UNKNOWN and/or untrusted SOURCES ! !
    Rule #2: see Rule #1

    People that do not understand technology do not deserve using technology.

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by bzipitidoo on Thursday March 22 2018, @01:04PM

      by bzipitidoo (4388) on Thursday March 22 2018, @01:04PM (#656573) Journal

      No, no. Connecting is fine. Just be sure to use fake info. Sure, that violates Facebook's terms and rules, and doubtless most of the terms in the wall of text they throw up in your face when you're connecting to the "free" wifi, but so what? I especially love that by connecting, you agree to obey all the laws, as if you weren't already obliged to be lawful before you connected.

      Remember the lessons from years of pirating music and movies! Gotta push back against bad laws.

  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by DannyB on Thursday March 22 2018, @04:28PM

    by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Thursday March 22 2018, @04:28PM (#656667) Journal

    What if I've never had and never will have a Facebook account?

    What if my only use of their WiFi is to SSH to a "droplet" or "linode" establishing a SOCKS proxy, and then web surfing through that encrypted connection?

    --
    To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
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