Submitted via IRC for AndyTheAbsurd
Gone are the heady days of cashiers asking if you want your order "supersized."
Not only has the infamous upgrade gone by the wayside, but cashiers at fast-food restaurants are becoming increasingly uncommon. McDonald's started rolling out ordering kiosks at its US locations in 2015, and the chain hasn't looked back since: by 2020, most of its 14,000 locations will have kiosks installed.
Panera Bread has also committed to digital ordering. Admittedly, when I first tried it in 2015, I found it had decidedly dystopian vibes. But it ended up being a fairly pleasant and painless experience.
A recent poll conducted by Business Insider's partner MSN suggests that diners aren't big fans of automated kiosks: 78% of customers said they would be less inclined to go to a restaurant that has automated ordering kiosks.
The popular narrative is that kiosks and mobile ordering are here to take jobs and hours away from underpaid cashiers, ultimately saving companies money in the face of rising labor costs — but the data suggests that isn't true. It may be true for some, but most chains are simply reallocating labor behind the scenes. And with such a tight labor market, many chains are struggling to hire and retain customer-facing employees.
Americans don't seem too threatened by automation in general. Nationally, only 21% of responders to MSN's poll believe their job may one day be done by machines. And restaurants like automated ordering for its increased accuracy and efficiency as more chains look towards cashless options.
But for now, a question remains: are kiosks, in fact, better for customers?
Source: Business Insider
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 31 2018, @09:21PM (6 children)
What's this shit "verified" tag? What's this bullshit? And how can I get one?
(Score: 3, Funny) by takyon on Saturday March 31 2018, @09:35PM (5 children)
You have to join the alt-right. Or donate money.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 31 2018, @09:39PM (3 children)
Donate money to alt-right? How would you know if I did? What's the alt-right I have to donate money to?
(Score: 1) by tftp on Saturday March 31 2018, @10:48PM (2 children)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 01 2018, @01:30AM (1 child)
Interesting, soylentnews is inverted facebook.
(Score: 2, Funny) by tftp on Sunday April 01 2018, @01:39AM
(Score: 3, Touché) by slap on Sunday April 01 2018, @11:36AM
I pressed Alt-Right on my keyboard and nothing happened.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Snotnose on Saturday March 31 2018, @09:36PM (6 children)
Or lack of same. A year or so ago I had a 2 fer coupon and went to Mickey Dees, where I saw a kiosk. Tried to order what I wanted (you could specify bread, toppings, etc), but couldn't put anything into the cart. Kept trying, then went to the cashier. Made my order, she said "that doesn't come with that kind of bun".
Um, ok, if you say so. Never mind it was something I could select at the kiosk, but couldn't the kiosk have told me that?
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
(Score: 3, Funny) by takyon on Saturday March 31 2018, @09:39PM (2 children)
Strong coupon game gonna get fucked up by unfeeling terminals.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Snotnose on Sunday April 01 2018, @12:53AM (1 child)
Do you really think I would eat at Mickey Dee's if 1) I didn't have a coupon; and 2) the coupon was for something I might want to eat?
CSB.
Back in the 70s I worked night shift getting off at midnight. 1 of my friends went to UCSB, another lived close to where I worked. Once a month I'd get off work at Midnight, Ken would meet me at work, and we'd drive up to Santa Barbara for the weekend. Driving up we always stopped at the Mickey Dees in San Clemente (you know, the one at the bottom of the hill) to buy chocolate milkshakes. Then on to SB, where we'd roll in about 3 AM and sleep on the floor. We then had fun weekends (although being a college student myself a couple years later I'm guessing Mike was being nice when he said "yeah, love to see you guys. Come on up and show up at my dorm door at 3AM".
/ Ken got married and moved out of state 15 years ago
// Mike died of Lou Gehrig's disease 4 years ago
/// my childhood is dying around me
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday April 01 2018, @12:21PM
I used to think: how can you F-up a shake? Until McD's handed me one full of machine lube instead of shake product.
I used to think: how often can something that F-ed up happen? Until the same McD's did it again the next time I tried a shake, a month later.
Literally hundreds of Frostys later, Wendys hasn't managed to serve a cup of flavorless thick, slightly gritty goo yet.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 3, Funny) by takyon on Saturday March 31 2018, @10:11PM
How dare you try to get two premium restaurant-tier signature [mcdonalds.com] flame-broiled burgers with sriracha-infused sauce on a brioche bun for the price of one shitty cheeseburger. You absolute madman.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 01 2018, @01:45AM
Mind you that's probably why you couldn't complete the order at the kiosk. The problem still stands that the kiosk should have been able to identify that and prevent you from either selecting it or warning you that it shouldn't be selected.
That being said, I went into a Mcdonalds just last Monday or so for the first time in years. And there was no kiosk at this store. At least none that I could see. Ordered via the cashier. I do know some places around here have kiosks - mainly the minor stores in malls or walmart and the like, I think. But I avoid places like Mcdonalds as much as possible these days regardless of how I feel about the whole push for unemployment by companies.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday April 01 2018, @12:17PM
Depends entirely upon the human it is replacing, and the kiosk software.
Kiosk software has the potential for continuous improvement with limited regressions, humans: not so much.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 5, Insightful) by frojack on Saturday March 31 2018, @09:39PM (32 children)
I've seen these in various locations, and I make an attempt to use the kiosks just to see how easy/difficult they are to use.
As long as you leave your NFC running on the phone all the time so that your payment app works without fiddling around with that, the kiosks work well. Or they do after the third time you use them. Most of the kiosks also accept credit cards, but my NFC payment uses one-time credit card numbers and who the hell knows what is inside that kiosk card reader.
The problem is they are different in every restaurant chain. The pimply faced kid behind the counter is still faster and easier interface to manage. A known entity, that everyone knows how to navigate. And you don't have to learn Mandarin or American Sign Language just to speak to him/her.
But every kiosk visit is a learning experience; of screen selection methods, constantly updating options, and varying payment methods. And more advertising, that you have to specifically dismiss, rather than simply look away from.
Kitchens were designed for a specific number of workers and cashier stations. If the kiosks ever become popular, you can't simply hire more cooks. You have to rebuild the kitchens. They are a half-assed solution to an unclear problem at present.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday March 31 2018, @10:13PM (4 children)
Is there any way to have your "favorite orders?" Like when you're in the mood for chicken, you order the chicken sandwich combo with a single selection? Or when you know you're gonna star in a Scheiße film later that day you get the super-sized Big-Mac combo?
(Score: 2) by takyon on Saturday March 31 2018, @10:25PM (2 children)
It would be super easy to save those selections in an app. And behold, it probably does exist:
https://www.thepennyhoarder.com/food/mcdonalds-app-mobile-ordering/ [thepennyhoarder.com]
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Sunday April 01 2018, @08:48AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 01 2018, @05:01PM
it is no longer convenient and fast if I have to register my real name through multiple services in order for something to remember for me on a privacy violating leash device that gives the illusion of freedoms (tied to a credit history and travel history and call log and contact list harvesting) that I want a #3, and will pay in cash.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by fyngyrz on Saturday March 31 2018, @10:44PM
The app makes this dead easy. Start your order, scroll across your saved favorites, tap, check out.
I don't know about the kiosks. I haven't been inside a McDonalds since the app came out. I order from the truck in a parking space, they bring it right to us.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Saturday March 31 2018, @10:28PM (16 children)
In 1988 I did a drive through order at a Burger King in Miami, the person taking the order was in North Dakota - they've been testing and refining this concept forever, it's just finally reached the economic point where it's getting wider adoption.
Rising minimum wages might have kicked it off, but I'd say - rather, that stagnant minimum wages kept this day from coming sooner - and even if minimum wages stayed stagnant, it was coming soon regardless.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by khallow on Sunday April 01 2018, @03:36AM (15 children)
That's a comforting myth. I think it's rather that if a society punishes employers, then they'll go out of their way to not employ people.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 01 2018, @05:53AM (3 children)
Interesting that you consider non-starving employees a punishment for employers.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday April 01 2018, @12:46PM
Interesting how you frame it instinctively as employees starving.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday April 01 2018, @01:00PM (1 child)
You're making the unwarranted assumption that the restrictions and costs imposed on employers make for less starving employees. After all, that's the gist of a lot of minimum wage research right? But here we see the dark side which all that research ignores, namely, that there's a huge incentive for businesses to do what they can to strip employees out of their business.
But I guess if one ignores the half century of employers automating and moving parts of their business to the developing world, then one might indeed get the impression that there's no consequences to these games.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday April 01 2018, @04:32PM
(Score: 4, Informative) by FatPhil on Sunday April 01 2018, @08:53AM (9 children)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday April 01 2018, @12:48PM (8 children)
Employers want to make money, not reduce costs. And automated systems are a cost too.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday April 01 2018, @04:13PM (7 children)
Reducing costs *is* a form of making money. Who do you think you're fooling with this disingenuous bullshit? The market is not God, and your continual advocacy of effectively feeding it a stream of slow-motion human sacrifices is not doing you any favors.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Sunday April 01 2018, @04:31PM (5 children)
They can also reduce costs by reducing automation, or for that matter, not having a business at all.
Let's keep in mind also the ultimate implication of FatPhil's original assertion, that businesses will be equally willing to cut labor no matter how much the cost. Who really thinks that is true?
My point instead is that smart changes in regulation, and imposed costs on labor will result in cheaper labor costs for businesses. At that point, they have increased incentive to both keep current employees and to hire more since there is more profit from the current employees as well as increased opportunities to profit from hiring more people.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday April 01 2018, @04:44PM (3 children)
Slavery is cheap labor too, so why don't we do that? Jesus, do you ever THINK about the implications of the shit you say?!
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Sunday April 01 2018, @05:02PM (1 child)
Because I'm about getting the most value for the employee. The problem is that employment is a trade. Put the thumb down on the scale so that it artificially favors one side and you damage the value of the trade. Slavery is an extreme push to favor employers and thus, even ignoring the destruction of human freedom, harms employment.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday April 01 2018, @06:05PM
But starvation wages, lack of benefits, and so on don't? In the name of not putting one's thumb on the scales, as you put it, you'd deregulate business entirely to the point that even slavery would be preferable as at least the slaves were housed (poorly) and fed (poorly)?
How many times do I need to say this?! The market is not God, making money is not humanity's sole purpose in life, and peoples' lives have more value that ideology, however pure. You would feed, as I said, mass amounts of slow-motion human sacrifices to your idols.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 02 2018, @02:02AM
Slavery is NOT cheap labor. It's only cheap compared to housing, feeding, AND paying other people to work your fields. Look up the adjusted cost of slave, there's a reason only the wealthy had them.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Sunday April 01 2018, @09:39PM
When companies announce massive layoffs, share prices rise. That means a lot of people think it's true, in particular, influential people.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Sunday April 01 2018, @09:34PM
Nah, only jesting, happy to see any hit-him-with-the-you're-a-dimbo-stick posts. It takes the weight off my back, and I'm not sure I want to interact too much as I think he's stalking me.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 01 2018, @03:32PM
these scum you call employers are just leechers
(Score: 5, Interesting) by fyngyrz on Saturday March 31 2018, @10:41PM (2 children)
It might be "a" problem, but I hardly think it qualifies as a serious problem. Not for folks like us, anyway, who use far more complex things on a daily basis. I mean, really, come on. It's a toddler-level exercise in menu navigation, complete with bouncing french fries.
Kiosks themselves are sort of a half-step towards a good solution, at least until they can automatically recognize you. A better solution – which McDonald's, to its credit, has already implemented – is a phone app. Which has the "automatically recognize you" thing nailed, and eliminates the entire "counter" experience.
So, as this is McDonalds we're talking about here, it turns out that I actually use the McDonalds phone app. A debit card attached to a very lean bank account of mine is stuffed away somewhere in the bowels of McDonalds, and so payment is not something I have to deal with at all, other than to juice the account once a month when I'm doing other banking anyway. Takes about 10 seconds. I might even be able to get the bank to automate it, though I've not actually explored that, as it's so easy anyway.
The app itself is brain-dead easy to navigate. You can set up favorites. Ordering is quick and easy. All I have to do is drive up to a parking space, tap the screen a couple times (really, it's that simple), and a couple minutes later some minimum wage slave comes out and hands me my order through the truck's window like a carhop of old, only sadly without the skates and short skirt. The curves are there, but often either on the wrong sex or in the wrong places – or both.
Since I created the order, it's almost always exactly right. It takes a considerable amount of human error out of the process (not all... but that's coming when they replace the food prep people, I'm sure), and, insofar as McDonalds is concerned at least, is exactly the right way to go IMHO.
No, they aren't. Problems the app solves, and a kiosk could solve, in a non-half-assed manner include:
You have missed the point of leaning into the automation. There are lots and lots of reasons to do so, and seriously, it's toddler-easy.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 01 2018, @03:30AM
When it comes to "fast" food around here, McDonalds seems to either hire the bottom rung of people or not train them at all. On a rare occasion, I stop at the store across the street from my work in the morning. I go inside if the drive-thru wraps around the building. Invariably, there is nobody manning the counter because all hands are working drive-thru only. I may be the only customer at the counter, yet I will wait and wait to be served, only to realize it would have been faster to wait in the drive-thru. And ordering from the big screen TV "menu" is impossible because the menu disappears every 30 seconds for a fucking commercial.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Sunday April 01 2018, @09:32AM
I have nothing to add, except to say that I found that absolutely hilarious.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 31 2018, @11:50PM
You mean like GoDaddy?
"Hey, you put a domain in your cart, take a look at what else you may need" ... 14 pages later ... "Your session has timed out."
(Score: 1) by tftp on Sunday April 01 2018, @04:21AM (4 children)
On the other hand, you cannot talk to him in Mandarin or Swahili or Norwegian, whereas a kiosk or an app can support that easily. Mute people will not need ASL, not that a typical pimple-faced kid would know what it is.
(Score: 2) by Dr Spin on Sunday April 01 2018, @08:26AM (3 children)
In many cases in the UK, they appear not to understand English, either.
Ask for "Diet coke with no ice" and 9/10 times you get ice.
Yesterday it took four attempts to get a "cream egg McFlurry" however, I am pleased to say I was not offered any green furry egg things as a substitute.
Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
(Score: 3, Funny) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday April 01 2018, @04:15PM (1 child)
You do not like green eggs and ham?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Monday April 02 2018, @12:55AM
I do not like them Aziam!
;)
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by turgid on Monday April 02 2018, @01:21PM
I never buy anything from McDonalds but I will eat at Burger King if I'm desperate. When I ask for "without mayonnaise" they always look perplexed. I still have a mild Scottish accent. Invariably I have to ask for "no my-oh."
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 2) by bobthecimmerian on Sunday April 01 2018, @01:30PM
Relying on the person at the counter leads to a wildly inconsistent experience. Sometimes you have a veteran that can whip through my kids' insanely complex customized requests as fast as they each speak. But sometimes you have to repeat yourself four times and then when you get the printed receipt you have to go back to the counter to have them correct a few entries. So in that respect, when I first saw a fast food place with a kiosk I went straight to the kiosk.
But if you customize your orders, using the kiosk only makes sense if you visit the same restaurant all of the time. I started entering the options for our family and three minutes in I gave up. They had everything we wanted and there were no problems with the input, but navigating all the menus to remove mustard and add onions and so forth got old in a hurry.
I'm trying to teach my kids two lessons. It's not working. Lesson one: don't eat fast food. Lesson two: do yourself, the rest of your family, and the people behind us in line a favor and pick a meal that you can eat without customization. I usually walk up to the front counter and say something like "I'll take combo three with bottled water to drink."
(Score: 5, Funny) by Justin Case on Saturday March 31 2018, @09:51PM (13 children)
OK I get the complaints about inscrutable menus, useless error messages... and ain't no way I'm using my phone to pay for anything.
But.
The average food service human is slow and error prone because they Just Don't Care, or have the IQ of a turnip. I'd rather enter my order myself and get it right the first time.
Some restaurant chains (Chili's...) let you order dessert from a table-top kiosk. Much better than waiting 10 minutes for the waitress to wander by and work very hard at ignoring you. Now you just have to wait for them to bring it out. Order before you need it and you're golden.
Same with grocery stores. I can ring up and bag my own and make sure the 2 liter soda bottle isn't dropped on top of the eggs and bread. Plus the last thing I want is some fake-cheerful drone asking me if I have plans. None of your business, don't pretend you care because you don't.
And then there's the ones that pass judgment on my purchases. "Wow that's a lot of ___! Are you..."
Or "you could have saved 31 cents". Yeah, and I also just spared your life. Now pipe down.
Just shut up and take my money. Or go away and let me pay a machine that at least when it is rude, is predictably so, at least until the next software "upgrade".
(Score: 5, Touché) by frojack on Saturday March 31 2018, @10:23PM (5 children)
You make two unwarranted assumptions.
1) properly entered orders are executed flawlessly in the kitchen
2) you are less error prone than the person that does it daily.
Unless you have the personality of a porcupine, you can assure better service by varying your attitude and demeanor rather than walking in with the assumption that they don't care and are stupid. I imagine you are a joy to serve. Bad enough they have to take an entry level job in the first place but then having to deal with you must really be the highlight of their day.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by tftp on Saturday March 31 2018, @10:38PM (1 child)
The cashier has nothing to do with the kitchen. If you are not getting what you ordered, call the cook and complain. It's not like they are in another galaxy.
Yes, I am most certain that I am less error prone when I choose my lunch. And why not? Adding another human into the chain will not help in this respect, it can only add noise. The cashier is tired, I am not. The cashier does not care, does not know what I like, but I do. If I use a smartphone, I can save meals and recall them later without any chance for an error. But, seriously, a man who cannot order a sandwich for himself is probably too stupid to leave the institution - he would not know how to make a part of the wall with a shiny metal thing to go away.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Dr Spin on Sunday April 01 2018, @11:28AM
It's not like they are in another galaxy
All the evidence suggests they probably are from another galaxy.
Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Justin Case on Saturday March 31 2018, @11:16PM (1 child)
frojack, as usual, you fail with just about every sentence.
I made no such assumption. Kitchen failures will, or will not, occur completely independent of the person pushing cartoon covered buttons at the counter.
That's because I care about my order and they don't. And no, it isn't like it takes 2 years of study to master the cartoon covered buttons. The person who does it daily is no better at it than I am.
I reserve the right to not be charming some days. A machine won't be offended.
Yes, I live to entertain the minimum wage serfs of the world. (Not.)
Aaaaand we come full circle. They won't have to deal with me if I can enter my order myself.
(Score: 3, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 01 2018, @05:58AM
> They won't have to deal with me if I can enter my order myself.
Truly, this is the best argument for kiosks so far :)
(Score: 3, Insightful) by bobthecimmerian on Sunday April 01 2018, @01:32PM
I'll add that if anyone is to blame for idiocy at a fast food restaurant, it's typically the owner. If there are buffoons working in important roles, it simply means they're not offering enough pay and benefits to attract competent staff.
(Score: 1) by tftp on Saturday March 31 2018, @10:27PM (1 child)
I would agree with that assessment. There is simply no need for a special person who pushes the same buttons that I could have pushed. Furthermore, with a simple app I can preconfigure my sandwich and order it with a single button when I am near the place. The food will be ready just in time. I feel no need to interact with the cashier. At lunch time there are always lines to order. Four or five terminals (as little as Android tablets glued to the wall) will do the job for those who do not carry smartphones.
On the subject of employment of cashiers, they can always learn to assemble sandwiches or do something else that only a human can do. Pushing buttons is not it, that's a job of a robot.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Sunday April 01 2018, @02:06AM
So you've made the case for an app.
But tfs is not about an app. It's about a kiosk for taking orders and accepting payment.
I prefer the app, nut there's only so much room on my phone for this kind of crap.
So we are stuck with kiosks.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 31 2018, @11:59PM
They aren't pretending to care. They are part of our Deep State surveillance network. Not only are they attempting to elicit information from you, but they are squeezing your produce so we can get a better understanding of your psyche.
Once again, that isn't for you. If you'll notice, the cashier says it louder than normal. That's so the microphones pick it up clearly and our transcribers can get a jump on any volume purchases you are making.
No worries - we've already updated this in your preferences file.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 01 2018, @02:27AM
The best way to prevent errors would be just to make your own Hamburgers at home. Failing that, just disguise Fast Food as your own cooking and no one will know the difference.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by vux984 on Sunday April 01 2018, @06:56AM
"The average food service human is slow and error prone because they Just Don't Care, or have the IQ of a turnip"
Depends. The guy in front of me the other day took forever, accidently cancelled repeatedly, had to start over 4 times, couldn't figure out how to navigate, and finally timed out when trying to pay... and then needed to change their order because they forgot something...
The last time I went into McDs half of the kiosks were out of order.
"Same with grocery stores. I can ring up and bag my own and make sure the 2 liter soda bottle isn't dropped on top of the eggs and bread."
A decent cashier / bagger team is 10x faster than the self checkout. Self checkout may be faster if there are 12 self checkouts, and one trainee cashier with a queue of everyone in the store over 50, but its not that self checkouts are actually better. They've just sabotaged the cashier operations to the point that the self checkouts look good by comparison.
"Just shut up and take my money. Or go away and let me pay a machine"
Yeah, until you see some mold on something in your cart that you missed, or a jug of milk springs a leak, and then its a whole fiasco, as you look around helplessly for a human to help you because the self checkout doesn't a have button for that. Meanwhile the human checkout just calls for a cleanup and a stockperson to fetch a replacement without missing a beat.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by FatPhil on Sunday April 01 2018, @09:41AM
It's spelled t-r-u-m-p
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 01 2018, @12:08PM
You sound like someone who'd be a lots of fun at a party.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Whoever on Saturday March 31 2018, @10:08PM (3 children)
What does anyone expect? The terminals reduce interaction with other humans. Of course Soylantis approve.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by fyngyrz on Saturday March 31 2018, @10:51PM (1 child)
This isn't a carhop where the "other humans" are carefully selected cuties on roller skates who gleefully wiggle their parts at you and collect tips from drooling customers for their efforts.
No, this is a wage slave dungeon with unhappy, unlovely people who don't give the south end of a northbound rat for your concerns, which inevitably shows up as lack of accuracy with which they handle your order.
It's not that I don't like people. Not at all. I don't like misery. The less of that there is, the better I like it.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Sunday April 01 2018, @01:47AM
Yes! I usually go to places where the people running the joint aren't idiots: intelligent, caring people I get along with fine. It's those idiot sheeple who can't make decisions for themselves and can't think at all that drive me nuts.
I like going where stupid levels are low and avoid places where it is high (which is why I avoid mcdees and go to places like A&W, or mom and pop places).
Too many peoples is dumb.
I don't mind people: I mind stupid.
(Stupid is:
"He my babby daddy",
"Who are you wearing?"
"I just watched Dr. Oz and he says this product is amazing...do you have it?"
Jersey Shore
)
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 01 2018, @01:03AM
damn skippy. and no machine ever spit in the food, either.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by ledow on Saturday March 31 2018, @10:17PM (13 children)
I know someone who orders Coke without ice at McDonald's. Literally, it's easier to NOT involve a human in that, despite the fact that they have to add the ice.
Plus, it's quicker, easier and I can spend all the time I want browsing without holding up others. And often, it's so quick that I zip past three sets of people trying to decide what to order even though they got there before me.
I have been saying for years that I can't understand why EVERY restaurant isn't already onboard. McDonald's is fast-food, yes, but look... it works.
How much easier would it be to browse a menu of a touchscreen in the middle of the table, find out about allergies (hey, just record that you're gluten-intolerant and it'll refuse to let you order anything with it in!), order drinks the SECOND you sit down (I have spent 20 minutes waiting for the first order, let alone the actual main course order), split the bill, etc. if you just have a touchscreen. Hell, give EVERYONE a screen under their plate (behind heat-proof glass, obviously). Now I don't have to wait for Fred to order that complicated shite he wants, and I can get in two starters instead. And I can pre-order dessert.
There's a place for humans, sure, but the ordering thing is far too prone to error. Even in those stuffy restaurants where the waiters don't write down your order but just memorise it. Have them bring dishes, wipe tables, take away plates, smile and ask it's okay. But take away the 5% of their job that is ordering which takes up 25% of the customers time trying to get their attention, explain what they want, correct it, send it back, etc.
Sure, there are some people who can't manage those things yet. But do you honestly think that in 20 years time there will be LESS people able to do everything they want on a touchscreen, and wanting to do so?
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Saturday March 31 2018, @10:34PM (4 children)
Where is this McDonald's that the employees still prepare the beverages? Soda fountains have been self-serve at fast food around here for decades.
Local Chilis restaurants have had auto-waiters on the tables for a few years now. You can order, pay, etc. or just summon the human with them: weak magic, the human is still slow to appear, as is the food. What they are brilliant at is taking your money and getting your worthless (now that you're not ordering anything else) butt out of the seat so a new customer can come in. The humans still seat you and greet you and strongly imply that they deserve an 18% or higher gratuity for their service, but the little touchscreen thingy is another way to communicate with the kitchen and wait staff instead of having to flag down "your" server.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Saturday March 31 2018, @10:55PM (3 children)
Our McDonalds uses a robot to make sodas. There's no self-serve. I enter what I want in the app, and inside the store, the right size cup drops, a conveyor device rotates the cup to the ice (if desired), drops the ice, then to the right nozzle, the cup is filled, and the employee has the monumental task of slapping a lid on it and putting a straw into the bag.
As far as I'm concerned, they're on exactly the right track.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Sunday April 01 2018, @02:29AM (2 children)
The meme around here in the 1980s was that the cup cost more than the soda, so why not let the customers bloat themselves on sugar water as much as they want when they pay $1.49 for a $0.10 cup, straw and lid? By the 1990s, self-serve soda was pervasive. The few customers who drank large amounts of syrup were completely offset by the reduction in labor cost of having the customers serve themselves. Customer satisfaction also increased quite a bit: free refills when you want them.
Now, there's the drive-thru beverage situation, and when I worked fast food we had a fair number of customers (maybe 2% of the drive-thru traffic) who would order drinks only - seemed pretty insane to me to pay $1.50 for a cup and straw with ice and soda in it when chilled 12oz cans were selling for $0.50 from machines, or $0.25 from the grocery, but... there were regulars who did drive through for drinks only.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by toddestan on Monday April 02 2018, @02:16AM (1 child)
I guess it makes some sense to get your drink that way. The price isn't all that different from a beverage from a convenience store that has fountains, and you don't even have to leave your car.
Also, I haven't seen 12oz cans in machine for $0.50 for a long time now. If you find a machine that sells cans, the going price is $1. Most machines now sell 20oz bottles for $1.50.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday April 02 2018, @03:24AM
Last time I worked fast food was 1985... soda prices have done weird things since then, they're up ~2x in machines and grocery stores, but not as much in restaurants.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by frojack on Saturday March 31 2018, @10:39PM (6 children)
Great for McDonald's, but every restaurant doesn't serve bog standard dishes and you eat at the same place every day.
I'd hate this to be everywhere. I'd like to ask a question about a meal, have it changed up perhaps. get that dressing on the side, find out if I can have Halibut instead of Cod , get an opinion of A is better than B, decide to share a dish with the wife, or find out how long the house Merlow has been opened.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Saturday March 31 2018, @10:55PM
If you limit that kind of ordering to fast food, "fast casual" (Chipotle, Panera Bread, etc.) and anything under or possibly including "Macaroni Grill" type places, that would probably cover a lot of ground still leave plenty of fancy restaurants you could go to staffed by real humans. Not to mention buffets.
I tried to look for some stats on the size of restaurant industry ($799 billion in 2017?) vs. fast food places, and found these hot trends [npd.com]:
You decide whether they are talking about the restaurant industry as a whole. Previous link says full service restaurant visits declined by 2%, while fast food sales are growing [nrn.com]: "Taco Bell (4 percent), McDonald’s (3.9 percent in the U.S.), Wendy’s (3.2 percent) and Burger King (3 percent)".
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1) by tftp on Saturday March 31 2018, @11:06PM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 01 2018, @12:02AM
I hate to be the one to break this to you, but you're not going to be able to get that level of service at McDonalds. You'll have to go to Der Wienerschnitzel (and not the drive-thru).
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Sunday April 01 2018, @10:32AM (2 children)
really?
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 01 2018, @05:05PM
definitely classy, must be a midwestern chicago vintage?
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Monday April 02 2018, @12:56AM
Merlin's Muggle brother?
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 4, Interesting) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Sunday April 01 2018, @07:16AM
Perhaps you're familiar with "iPad Restaurants"? DuckDuckGo, don't fail me now... you have a choice of many different Point Of Sale vendors [duckduckgo.com].
I patronized one at an airport not long ago because I liked the look of their kitchen, which was right in the middle of the dining area.
Each seat at the counter had its own iPad. The tables just had two, one for each side.
I puzzled over my iPad for a little while when a live human turned up next to me. "Would you like me to help you order?" she professionally inquired. "I think I got it." Then my debit card was declined.
She started to cry.
"It's cool, I have another." That card worked.
Later that night I got a call on my iPhone asking whether I really intended to pay for a restaurant meal in Boston, given that I live in Washington State. I tapped the "1" button on my iToy; after that my card worked fine.
Oddly, my credit union's automated security bot had no problem with my using my business debit card in Boston, given that I live in Washington State.
I ordered the very cheapest item on the menu, but I must say those live humans cooking their live-human hearts out in the middle of the dining area did a fabulous job.
As I sat there I was treated to display advertising on that iPad, one of which is found at every counter seat. (The tables just have two.)
I could select the advertising by tapping buttons, some of which were in color. Some of the ads but not all of them were in color as well. During my meal I learned all about a really high-tech matress vendor. I don't like the matress I have now, perhaps I'll order one of their SKUs.
But if I didn't tap any of the buttons for a while, the ads played on their own.
I'll never patronize a place like that again.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by RamiK on Saturday March 31 2018, @10:59PM (7 children)
1. Yes.
2. It's not replacing the cashier's job. It's replacing fractions of human labor along with every other fast-food innovation. Between automated vending machines, robotic* food preparation and smart shelves and cameras for remote warehouse inventory management, there's a job or two you can cut in almost every restaurant in very near future.
Though I doubt there's enough money in food services to justify this much automation until other more heavy industries get the basic industrial research developed for food services to adapt to their own needs.
*No not a burger flipping robot. More like a miniature cookie factory you throw fresh ingredients in and get a prepared, warm, paper wrapped meals out of.
compiling...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by takyon on Saturday March 31 2018, @11:04PM (3 children)
Hey, let's not forget these things [coca-colacompany.com].
You want Peach Sprite? It's yours, fatty!
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by RamiK on Saturday March 31 2018, @11:19PM
I'll have a dragon pancake [youtube.com] to go please along with that Peach Sprite.
compiling...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by SomeGuy on Sunday April 01 2018, @12:49AM (1 child)
A new suxbys near me has one of those things, and it is horrible as shit. Ok, sure, mix an an almost infinite number of flavors, fancy, but who really needs that? Spend I don't recall how long just futzing with it to find a normal beverage type, but you are forced to use a greasy ass touch screen that has been molested by who knows how many disease infested rats-on-two-legs. Oh, I guess the idea is you are supposed to download some "app", oh you have to buy a $$$ cell phone first, and set preferences through the web or something where they can track the living dicks out of you.
A regular dispenser is quicker since there are fewer choices (boo hoo), and somewhat more sanitary since only the cup touches the lever. Although fast food restaurants have never been known for their sanitation.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Gaaark on Sunday April 01 2018, @01:59AM
Yeah, there is usually a lag on those touch screens or you're not touching hard enough: so is it lag, or did I not touch hard enough? So touch it again and it goes past the screen you wanted to another screen. So you go back. Then you touch again, but this time you're waiting for the lag when you didn't actually touch hard enough (or in the correct way): so while you wait for lag, it's waiting for touch.....
I like the older dispensers with the little button on the sprite (if I recall correctly) dispenser that gives you just soda water. No sugar, lots of bubbles. Nice, cleans the palate.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 3, Interesting) by tftp on Sunday April 01 2018, @12:34AM (2 children)
First, the cost of human labor keeps growing, and the cost of a robot goes down. Second, some places like Silicon Valley are so expensive, that the nearest cheap cashier lives 100 miles away and cannot afford a job. Establishments that have to pay big bucks to a cashier will be very eager to replace him with a machine. Food making and distribution will remain a very important job up to the technological singularity. The high volume is guaranteed, even small savings will be important.
(Score: 3, Informative) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Sunday April 01 2018, @07:18AM (1 child)
Compare the $3.20 an hour I made pumping gas in 1982 to the what is it? $7.25 I think. The Federal Minimum Wage.
Adjusted for inflation I earned far more from 1982's minimum wage than today's gas station attendants receive.
Even a $15.00 minimum wage won't quite set it right.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday April 01 2018, @04:07PM
(Score: 3, Informative) by leftover on Saturday March 31 2018, @11:23PM
Go to any of the chains long enough and you will find that you have just purchased lunch for the seemingly disinterested schlub behind the counter. It is usually not worth your time to go back and fix it. The last time I did it was because this larcenous prick had hopped onto someone else's unlocked terminal. That annoyed me enough to make sure the manager knew exactly what was done.
Bent, folded, spindled, and mutilated.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by mendax on Saturday March 31 2018, @11:48PM (1 child)
I am a self-serve kiosk idiot. I tried using one once at a McDonalds and found it incredibly frustrating. The interface was incomprehensible. Since then I've ordered only from a human being. It it simply less stressful even if it takes a bit longer to get my food because of it.
It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
(Score: 1) by tftp on Sunday April 01 2018, @12:39AM
(Score: 5, Funny) by SomeGuy on Sunday April 01 2018, @12:29AM
Carl's Jr. Computer: Enjoy your EXTRA BIG ASS FRIES!
Woman at Carl's Jr.: You didn't give me no fries, I got an empty box.
Carl's Jr. Computer: Would you like another EXTRA BIG ASS FRIES?
Woman at Carl's Jr.: I said I didn't get any!
Carl's Jr. Computer: Thank you! Your account has been charged. Your balance is zero. Please come back when you can afford to make a purchase.
Woman at Carl's Jr.: What? Oh no, NO!
[She hits the machine. An alarm goes off, and a sign appears on the computer saying "WARNING! Carl's Jr. Frowns Upon Vandalism"]
Carl's Jr. Computer: I'm sorry you're having trouble. I'm sorry you're having trouble.
Woman at Carl's Jr.: Come on! My kids are starvin'!
Carl's Jr. Computer: [the woman kicks the computer, and it sprays a fast-acting tranquilizer in her face] This should help you calm down. Please come back when you can afford to make a purchase. Your kids are starving. Carl's Jr. believes no child should go hungry. You are an unfit mother. Your children will be placed in the custody of Carl's Jr. Carl's Jr... "Fuck You, I'm Eating."
[Joe approaches the computer]
Carl's Jr. Computer: Welcome to Carl's Jr. Would you like to try our EXTRA BIG ASS TACO? Now with more MOLECULES!
(Score: 4, Funny) by archfeld on Sunday April 01 2018, @01:36AM
They are when I want to say order 89 big macs and then leave the 'resturaunt'. People seem to question things like that but not the faithful robot.
For the NSA : Explosives, guns, assassination, conspiracy, primers, detonators, initiators, main charge, nuclear charge
(Score: 3, Interesting) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Sunday April 01 2018, @06:58AM
If I can't give a live human a reason to have a job, I shall take my business elsewhere.
At the downtown Portland AT&T store:
"I'd like to pay my phone bill."
"OK. Just put your card in the kiosk."
"I want to pay cash."
He pointed to the cash registers. "If you pay cash there is a fifteen dollar fee."
"I just rode twenty miles on the bus so you would have a job."
The next time I went to the AT&T store the kiosks would accept cash, but the cash registers still demanded a fifteen dollar fee.
Now I have T-Mobile.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 4, Funny) by pkrasimirov on Sunday April 01 2018, @07:05AM
The machine can never replace the man.
-- old cannibal proverb.
(Score: 2) by darkfeline on Tuesday April 03 2018, @04:35AM
Japan (and other countries) has had these for decades. There's a ticket machine where you insert money and press a button for your order and you get a ticket. You hand the ticket to the chef.
Zero technological complexity, simple user interface. The amount of tickets in the machine correspond to the store's stock, so you can't order something and be told "sorry we're out". American fast food is a disgrace honestly, other countries have had faster, more delicious food for ages.
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