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posted by Fnord666 on Monday April 09 2018, @05:52AM   Printer-friendly
from the what's-next? dept.

Submitted via IRC for TheMightyBuzzard

London Mayor Sadiq Khan is cracking down on the carrying of knives in response to a spate of stabbings that pushed the city's murder rate past New York's for the "first time in modern history."

Khan deployed an additional 300 Metropolitan Police officers over the weekend to work exclusively against knife crime, urging them to be more "confident" in their authority to stop anyone suspected of carrying a weapon.

"What you will see over the course of the next few weeks and months — is what we have seen over the last few weeks and months — which is stop-and-search based on suspicion of carrying an offensive weapon going up, more arrests as a consequence of this intelligence-led stop-and-search going up and hopefully our city becoming safer," the mayor said Saturday, according to The Telegraph.

Khan also issued a warning to would-be knife carriers, saying they should think twice before bringing one out in public — whatever the reason.

"No excuses: there is never a reason to carry a knife," Khan said on Twitter. "Anyone who does will be caught, and they will feel the full force of the law."

Source: http://dailycaller.com/2018/04/08/london-murder-rate-knives/


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(1) 2
  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by c0lo on Monday April 09 2018, @05:57AM (56 children)

    by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 09 2018, @05:57AM (#664225) Journal

    Like... what? Ask cooks/chefs hire a specialized transport for their personal knives or what?

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
    • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @06:16AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @06:16AM (#664233)

      I send my knives by drone. Carrying is for plebs.

      • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @06:23AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @06:23AM (#664236)

        I send my knives by drone.

        You don't know what you miss (and almost certainly you'll be missing your knife's target, unless you use drones controlled by a strong AI).

      • (Score: 2) by Fluffeh on Monday April 09 2018, @09:57PM

        by Fluffeh (954) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 09 2018, @09:57PM (#664706) Journal

        You've just weaponized an aircraft.. I hope you have a license for that!

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Stardaemon on Monday April 09 2018, @06:28AM (9 children)

      by Stardaemon (4294) on Monday April 09 2018, @06:28AM (#664240)

      Yeah, never mind construction workers, carpenters, etc.

      Knives are primarily tools, and very useful ones at that.
      I can think of plenty of reasons why you'd carry one around that doesn't involve using it as a weapon.

      • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @06:36AM (8 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @06:36AM (#664249)

        I know. And a sword is just a long knife. Why not allow that? I'm sure we can use that for construction too.... hammer, chisel, bowie knife, machete, long sword... all in the toolkit...

        You know, I've done some construction too. And I've used a knife there too.... but then it went into my tool box, not into my pants.

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Monday April 09 2018, @06:46AM

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 09 2018, @06:46AM (#664258) Journal

          And I've used a knife there too.... but then it went into my tool box, not into my pants.

          I won't stop you being arrested in a "stop-and-search based on suspicion of carrying an offensive weapon", this one doesn't seem to require to carry it in your pants to be enforceable.

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
        • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @11:02AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @11:02AM (#664353)

          ... technically most swords are just really long daggers.

        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Monday April 09 2018, @11:33AM (4 children)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 09 2018, @11:33AM (#664363) Journal

          Can't help wondering - what else do you not carry in your pants?

          Many of us grew up with knives. There was a time when a boy was given a pocket knife, at some time deemed appropriate, by his father, or grandfather. I think I was 7 years old when I was given my first Barlow. A pocket knife sorta, kinda, like, BELONGS in a pocket! That way, you can always reach it when you need it.

          • (Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Monday April 09 2018, @03:23PM (3 children)

            by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us (6553) on Monday April 09 2018, @03:23PM (#664489) Journal

            And back in those days there were good reasons why a boy might use his pocket knife relatively frequently, just as you'd use your handkerchief or consult your wristwatch. You might carry your rifle to school, because you might be able to shoot your dinner on the way home. Times change.

            (That said, I still carry a pocket knife and wear a wristwatch. But I depend on Kleenex I can dispose of rather than carry a wristwatch.)

            --
            This sig for rent.
            • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @03:34PM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @03:34PM (#664494)

              But I depend on Kleenex I can dispose of rather than carry a wristwatch.

              Hint: Wristwatches are not intended as nose cleaning tool. :-)

            • (Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Monday April 09 2018, @03:47PM

              by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us (6553) on Monday April 09 2018, @03:47PM (#664501) Journal

              carry a handkerchief... gawd.

              --
              This sig for rent.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @02:41PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @02:41PM (#664453)

          I know. And a sword is just a long knife. Why not allow that?

          I don't see why you would not allow it. Your argument is shit.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Rivenaleem on Monday April 09 2018, @08:42AM (11 children)

      by Rivenaleem (3400) on Monday April 09 2018, @08:42AM (#664297)

      From the Article:

      Stabbings have worsened despite Britain’s already strict knife control laws. U.K. law prohibits knife sales to those under 18 and makes it illegal for anyone to carry a knife “without good reason,” unless it has a folding blade of three inches or fewer.

      So the UK already has a law in place that prohibits the carrying of knives longer than 3 inches "without good reason". Most work knives (for carpenters, electricians etc) are shorter than 3 inches (the trusty Stanley blade) and are retractable. If you were stopped and searched, you would be allowed to give an explanation as to why you are carrying anything longer.

      I teach and train martial arts and was stopped only a couple of times carrying a bag of blunt training swords and any law enforcement officer I've ever interacted with was very reasonable. Once shown that they were not a deadly weapon, once I show them my ID and my school details, they let me go on my way. No police officer has every over-reacted to a bag of swords and drawn a weapon on me or treated me with anything other than calm and respect.

      Then again, I'm not in a police state.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Monday April 09 2018, @08:51AM (5 children)

        by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 09 2018, @08:51AM (#664303) Journal

        Then again, I'm not in a police state.

        Can you please be more clear about where the above happened to you and which exactly is the police state you are referring to (or give an example, if possible many other states would qualify in your opinion)? Thanks.

        --
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by TheRaven on Monday April 09 2018, @09:09AM (1 child)

          by TheRaven (270) on Monday April 09 2018, @09:09AM (#664309) Journal
          Not the GP, but I live in the UK and used to be involved in dark-ages reenactment, and would carry an EN45 spring-steel broadsword (blunt edges) to events once or twice a week. I walked past police officers a few times and never had any issues with it. Then again, I'm a middle-class white male...
          --
          sudo mod me up
          • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @03:59PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @03:59PM (#664508)

            I also live in the UK.

            I live very very close to the place where a policeman shot some guy dead who was carrying a table leg because he thought it was a gun.
            (Should have gone to Specsavers). In a separate and allegedly unrelated incident not very far away, one armed police officer shot
            another dead at a range of about 25 feet.

            It may not be a police state, but the plod are not recruited on the basis of brain power.

        • (Score: 5, Informative) by Rivenaleem on Monday April 09 2018, @09:48AM

          by Rivenaleem (3400) on Monday April 09 2018, @09:48AM (#664322)

          I'm in Ireland. I was crossing a university campus from the car park to the sports centre (I sometimes park further away to get a little walk in before class). Sure there's a bit of exaggeration but the US really isn't that far from a Police state, and London, which is certainly a surveillance state, isn't far behind.

        • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @03:07PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @03:07PM (#664473)

          which exactly is the police state you are referring to

          Not OP, but you're blind if you can't see that the Fascist Corporations of America is the most well-known police state currently in existence. (Apologies to OP if he means a different police state.) A police state filled with chicken-shit, pants-pissing, shoot first ask questions never, roid-raging man-baby police, but still a police state.

          America: Lane of the fee, home of the terrified.

          • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday April 09 2018, @03:25PM

            by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 09 2018, @03:25PM (#664491) Journal

            Not OP, but you're blind if you can't see that the Fascist Corporations of America is the most well-known police state currently in existence.

            Whoaa, there... I didn't raised the question implying a denoal there is a police state somewhere.
            I simply asked "What was the place where police still showed common sense and which police state you are alluding to?"

            --
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @02:44PM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @02:44PM (#664456)

        If you were stopped and searched

        you would be allowed to give an explanation

        once I show them my ID

        Then again, I'm not in a police state.

        I cannot help this one, he is too far gone.

        • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @03:16PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @03:16PM (#664481)

          I cannot help this one, he is too far gone.

          That's not a police state. This is what happens in a police state:

          "Let me see your han- GUN GUN!!" *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang*

          Victim is hit twice and was carrying a cell phone...

          -----END OF POST, BELOW MITIGATES A STUPID-ASS FILTER-----

          Lame-ass filter detected. Compress this:

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          Boudin nisi sint filet mignon, adipisicing spare ribs enim. Pork loin exercitation boudin aliquip, alcatra ea cow sirloin jowl quis meatloaf jerky tempor. Enim chuck esse drumstick tongue sint jowl qui corned beef ex consectetur sunt quis. Pig boudin ullamco drumstick.

          Proident capicola sed dolore shankle. Cupidatat in exercitation commodo andouille ut. Laboris beef jowl, tail meatloaf filet mignon magna do buffalo ball tip. Voluptate ground round andouille, short loin ut buffalo pork belly ut swine corned beef. Adipisicing in ut eiusmod minim t-bone. Beef ribs short loin prosciutto pork belly strip steak landjaeger.

          Ribeye irure occaecat, venison nulla tail jowl tri-tip picanha magna alcatra doner. Strip steak culpa do ham hock dolore duis burgdoggen nulla in id cupidatat ut andouille. Mollit elit aute, andouille ham hock fatback ut. Tempor excepteur ham sausage in short ribs fatback irure pancetta velit.

          Pastrami bacon tongue cupidatat veniam anim. Fugiat alcatra esse venison, et veniam ground round incididunt eiusmod do minim bresaola chuck ribeye dolor. Aliquip pig meatloaf frankfurter. Salami pork eiusmod ut commodo ribeye nulla hamburger enim t-bone ball tip flank. Deserunt biltong voluptate, excepteur shankle meatloaf ground round ex. Exercitation in landjaeger, officia velit beef ribs pork loin sirloin culpa enim ad duis. Capicola prosciutto sirloin ut, sunt drumstick nulla laborum.

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          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @06:56PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @06:56PM (#664605)

            That's not a police state. This is what happens in a police state:

            [trimmed]

            Victim is hit twice and was carrying a cell phone...

            No, that is far from Police state buddy. I lived in a police state behind iron curtain. What you describe is quite exactly the fucking opposite.

            The video of the incident is freely available, all the Officers are under investigation. And while I cannot speak about the outcome or judge it as fair or not, in a police state you NEVER hear about the people who "disappear", especially not on TV. dumbass.

            • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @07:07PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @07:07PM (#664611)

              No, that is far from Police state buddy.

              Ah, the good old 'not as bad as' fallacy. Some police states are worse than others. I'd say any country which uses mass surveillance is automatically a police state, even if they don't yet (yes, "yet," since it's an inevitability) use that capability for mass oppression. Yes, right now they only use it to oppress whistleblowers, journalists, activists, political opponents, and other people who are critically important to a functioning democracy.

              As for matters such as this going to court, I should remind you that the courts often side with the police even when that means siding against the Constitution. Judges are often authoritarians who give insane amounts of leeway to thug officers. The mere fact that cases like this go to court does not mean we don't live in a police state; at most, it might mean that our police state is not as bad as others that have existed.

              If you can't see the police states being slowly created right under your nose, you are blind.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @07:00PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @07:00PM (#664608)

        Then again, I'm not in a police state.

        Any society which utilizes mass surveillance is necessarily a police state.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by theluggage on Monday April 09 2018, @08:47AM (11 children)

      by theluggage (1797) on Monday April 09 2018, @08:47AM (#664301)

      Like... what? Ask cooks/chefs hire a specialized transport for their personal knives or what?

      Yes, because it is totally impossible for police to distinguish between a thug with a blade tucked into the waistband of their jeans and a cook on the bus to work with their knives wrapped up in their chef's whites all safely zipped up in a rucksack. Cops love paperwork so much that they'll gladly do reams of it for the sheer joy of tormenting cooks. Meanwhile, of course cooks have to carry knives everywhere they go - just in case someone asks them to whip up an emergency steak tartare and it would be totally unreasonable to expect cooks/chefs to take reasonable precautions about carrying knives around in areas where there's a knife crime problem.

      The UK has had laws about "going equipped for a burglary" since forever, yet somehow all the locksmiths have stayed in business.

      Perhaps we should take a lesson from the USA, though - and grant everybody the constitutional right to carry a knife, but counter it by permanently arming all our police with Samurai swords and giving them carte blanche to behead anybody that looks as if they might be about to pull a knife?

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Monday April 09 2018, @08:53AM (4 children)

        by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 09 2018, @08:53AM (#664305) Journal

        Yes, because it is totally impossible for police to distinguish between a thug with a blade tucked into the waistband of their jeans and a cook on the bus to work with their knives wrapped up in their chef's whites all safely zipped up in a rucksack.

        I wasn't mocking the policemen, but rather the honorable mayor of London.

        (I actually hate when people rely on absolutes like ""No excuses: there is never a reason to carry a knife").

        I hope what I meant is clearer now.

        --
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
        • (Score: 2) by Bot on Monday April 09 2018, @02:01PM (1 child)

          by Bot (3902) on Monday April 09 2018, @02:01PM (#664414) Journal

          > I actually hate when people rely on absolutes

          People should not rely on absolutes! (this BTW is an absolute).

          --
          Account abandoned.
          • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday April 09 2018, @02:24PM

            by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 09 2018, @02:24PM (#664441) Journal

            People can rely on whatever they what, the fact that I hate it or not impose no obligations on them.
            But then again, I'm not the mayor of London (and this is another absolute)

            (large grin)

            --
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by theluggage on Monday April 09 2018, @02:24PM (1 child)

          by theluggage (1797) on Monday April 09 2018, @02:24PM (#664440)

          I wasn't mocking the policemen, but rather the honorable mayor of London.

          To be fair, he is a politician and was talking to a media who can't cope with anything longer than a 12-word soundbite. A long recital of the precise rules on how to legally convey sharp instruments from A to B would not have been appropriate for the context - and certainly would only have made it into the report if the media could misquote it in a sensational way. There's a bit of a chicken-and-egg issue between the media and politicians when it comes to conveying complexity: we tend to get the politicians our media deserve.

          • (Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Monday April 09 2018, @02:37PM

            by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 09 2018, @02:37PM (#664450) Journal

            To be fair, he is a politician and was talking to a media who can't cope with anything longer than a 12-word soundbite. A long recital of the precise rules on how to legally convey sharp instruments from A to B would not have been appropriate for the context - and certainly would only have made it into the report if the media could misquote it in a sensational way.

            Look, in Australia, this thing is as old as 1998 [sportingshooter.com.au] and it can be expressed, without prepositions or other connectives, in about 30 or so words:

            a person must not, without reasonable excuse (proof of which lies on the person), have in his or her custody a knife in a public place or a school. A 'knife' includes a knife blade, a razor blade and any other blade.

            Hardy something a news-critter can interpret or twist.

            --
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @01:00PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @01:00PM (#664383)

        Remember when Rudy Giuliani started his stop and frisk program in New York. Remember how the left howled it was sooo unfair to the poor black men who were disproportionately carrying weapons and using them for robbery and murder? Now we have Saladin ordering essentially the same thing in London and the loony left is lapping it up, because, "It won't affect me, and besides those damn knives are dangerous."

        You guys are a riot.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @01:42PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @01:42PM (#664400)

          Political Right and Left are flipped in Britain and Europe in general, and beyond that require far more discussion of specific issues to categorize them in what qualifies as right or left leaning issues there.

          As far as knives go, I imagine any non-urbanite yuppie pretty much anywhere will think that many of these knife laws are dumb. The real solutions in both cases are open carry of anything longer than a 3" pocket knife. If you can see the weapon you can know whether to take a wide berth of the person carrying it, which can help civilians identify people to avoid, and law enforcement to better target people intentionally threatening the public.

      • (Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Monday April 09 2018, @01:39PM (3 children)

        by LoRdTAW (3755) on Monday April 09 2018, @01:39PM (#664398) Journal

        ...but counter it by permanently arming all our police with Samurai swords and giving them carte blanche to behead anybody that looks as if they might be about to pull a knife?

        It's called stand your ground and had been demonstratively proved in a court of law that you can shoot a man dead, claim self defence, and walk free. Plus this is America. We use guns thank you very much.

        • (Score: 2) by isostatic on Monday April 09 2018, @06:00PM (2 children)

          by isostatic (365) on Monday April 09 2018, @06:00PM (#664570) Journal

          Same in UK
          http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43676359 [bbc.co.uk]

          Although nothing as uncivilised as a blaster.

          A man arrested on suspicion of murdering a suspected burglar has been released without charge.

          Richard Osborn-Brooks discovered two intruders at his home in South Park Crescent Hither Green, south-east London, on Wednesday.

          The 78-year-old was arrested after Henry Vincent, 37, from Kent, was fatally stabbed during a struggle in the kitchen.

          (I prefer the caption on http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43639183 [bbc.co.uk] though -- http://imgur.com/qTTpPq8l.png [imgur.com] -- that's what a UK forensic tent looks like. Other call it "The Pub".

          • (Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Monday April 09 2018, @10:14PM (1 child)

            by LoRdTAW (3755) on Monday April 09 2018, @10:14PM (#664714) Journal

            I know a guy who did 4 years for manslaughter after he stabbed his mothers boyfriend to death in a struggle when he was 17. Really shameful part was he was defending his mother from the boyfriend who had stabbed her in a fight. Apparently his mother is also a piece of shit and was more upset the boyfriend died than the state threatening her child with 2nd degree murder. From what he says, he wrestled the knife away and then plunged the knife into the dude. He didn't want to kill him. He just wanted this man to stop stabbing his mother and himself so that was his reaction, tit-for-tat. Prosecution saw it as murder and fucking grand jury was like yea off to jail. Didnt help that he's Hispanic. Apparently his mother didn't help him at all as the lowlife she was, thought it was better to cry over the dead boyfriend who, by the way did I already mention that he fucking stabbed her? So yea. He almost took a plea bargain for 7 years for man 1 or 2 but his lawyer worked out a deal for 5 years with possible early parole. He did something like 2 in Rikers, four months in minimum until they realized he was in for man and then upstate somewhere for 4 years total.

            He copes by telling funny jail stories and using his brain to get a degree and now does game journalism. He travels the country and in some rare cases, the world, playing video games, conducting interviews and writing articles. He did good for a guy who was fucked over by not only the justice system but his own mother. And he's only 28 or 29.

            • (Score: 2) by isostatic on Thursday April 12 2018, @11:47AM

              by isostatic (365) on Thursday April 12 2018, @11:47AM (#665857) Journal

              So self defence isn't always a defence in the US.

    • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday April 09 2018, @11:28AM (18 children)

      by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Monday April 09 2018, @11:28AM (#664361) Homepage
      I cook in my old flat when I stay there at weekends.
      I cook in my new flat when I stay there during the week.

      I don't need to carry knives between the two places. Or pans. Or plates. Or ovens.

      Guess what - I have two sets of knives!

      And you know what, that less-than-one-in-a-million corner case that you discovered? They'll not be carrying knives even when they're transporting their knives. They'll be carrying a bag containing either a box or a cloth roll-up that contains the knives. If you cannot see the different between an immediately accessible knife and an almost inaccessible knife then please don't ever consider a career in public policy making.
      --
      Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Monday April 09 2018, @11:58AM (4 children)

        by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 09 2018, @11:58AM (#664369) Journal

        I don't need to carry knives between the two places. Or pans. Or plates. Or ovens.

        Guess what - I have two sets of knives!

        But you aren't a professional cook, are you?

        And you know what, that less-than-one-in-a-million corner case that you discovered? They'll not be carrying knives even when they're transporting their knives. They'll be carrying a bag containing either a box or a cloth roll-up that contains the knives.

        Show me where "No excuses: there is never a reason to carry a knife," makes any distinction on the way one is allowed or forbidden carry the knife and I'll retract my objection.
        'cause I'm not seeing any exception being explicitly carved for professional cooks (such as my sister, thus I know very well it's less that 1-in-a-million, there aren't only 25 professional cooks in Australia's 25 million population) all I'm seeing is a blanket "there is never a reason to carry a knife".

        --
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
        • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday April 09 2018, @02:00PM (3 children)

          by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Monday April 09 2018, @02:00PM (#664411) Homepage
          You didn't address accessibility.
          --
          Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
          • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday April 09 2018, @02:06PM (2 children)

            by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 09 2018, @02:06PM (#664421) Journal

            You didn't address accessibility.

            Because the honourable mayor of London, in his politician-specific style, didn't do it in the first place.

            --
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
            • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday April 09 2018, @09:57PM (1 child)

              by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Monday April 09 2018, @09:57PM (#664708) Homepage
              That's because the pre-existing "good reason or lawful authority" should be just a gimme, because that's what the law says. He's not changing the law, he's changing the effort behind enforcement of the present law.

              When politians say they're cracking down on drugs, are you one of the idiots who says "but caffeine's a drug too - aaaahhhhhhh!". Being able to find a way to deliberately misinterpret what was said is not clever, it's twatty.

              Kahn was talking about enforcing the law, and therefore the knives he's talking about are the knives that the law talks about, and the carrying he's talking about is the carrying that the law talks about.
              --
              Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
              • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday April 09 2018, @10:23PM

                by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 09 2018, @10:23PM (#664718) Journal

                When politians say they're cracking down on drugs, are you one of the idiots who says "but caffeine's a drug too - aaaahhhhhhh!".

                You got me completely wrong. At best in regards with the matter, you'll hear me protesting on the line of 'But beer, rum and vodka are foods'.

                (grin)

                --
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
      • (Score: 2) by Bot on Monday April 09 2018, @02:05PM (2 children)

        by Bot (3902) on Monday April 09 2018, @02:05PM (#664419) Journal

        Now that I think of it a pan would be an useful instrument against a knife carrying assailant. If it isn't banned I'd carry that for self defense.

        --
        Account abandoned.
        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday April 09 2018, @03:08PM (1 child)

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 09 2018, @03:08PM (#664475) Journal

          Now that I think of it a pan would be an useful instrument against a knife carrying assailant. If it isn't banned I'd carry that for self defense.

          I warmly recommend you a colander for the purpose.
          You can carry it as a headgear specific to religious traditions under multiple country laws [dailymail.co.uk], even downunder more recently [theage.com.au]

          Even local government officials can use it (defensively) during swearing-in ceremonies [huffingtonpost.com]

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
          • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday April 09 2018, @10:01PM

            by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Monday April 09 2018, @10:01PM (#664710) Homepage
            A colander's probably superior, as it would trap the tip of the weapon, thus preventing it from slipping round the side, and giving no escape apart from a deliberate pull back.
            --
            Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
      • (Score: 2, Informative) by hemocyanin on Monday April 09 2018, @03:14PM (4 children)

        by hemocyanin (186) on Monday April 09 2018, @03:14PM (#664479) Journal

        Just make sure that if people break into either home while you are there, attack you and one of them threatens to stab you with a screwdriver, you don't run into your kitchen and grab a knife to defend yourself. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/04/suspected-burglar-dies-tussle-pensioner-78/ [telegraph.co.uk]

        The UK is fucking insane.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @04:08PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @04:08PM (#664517)

          Actually, in this case the UK was saner than the average booboo:

          The pensioner was charged, investigated, and then released without charge. The correct procedure.

          I live in East London too - most burglars round here ring the doorbell, and if there is anyone inside who answers,
          ask (probably in their own native language) "Does my mate live here?" and gets the reply "wrong address, my friend"
          and leaves, never to return.

          He does this because, if there is anyone at home, he probably owns the kind of knife usually used in the Kebab shops
          round here, and is willing to use it "in self defence".

        • (Score: 3, Touché) by isostatic on Monday April 09 2018, @06:06PM (1 child)

          by isostatic (365) on Monday April 09 2018, @06:06PM (#664572) Journal

          You turn up at someone's house, there's a dead body on the floor, the person with the bloody knife said "I did it".

          Do you

          1) Say "OK", and wave him on his way
          2) Treat him as a suspect until you verify the assailant was actually a thief
          3) Shoot him

          In the UK we go for option 2, in the US it's option 3 (if the guy with the knife has dark skin).

          The evidence was swiftly found and the man faces no action: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43676359 [bbc.co.uk]

          Now I happen to agree that arresting him, and certainly detaining this innocent man, was not right, however he should have been treated as a suspect until it was proven that it wasn't a murder (otherwise you could simply kill the tesco delivery chap as he unloads your food in your kitchen, then claim it was self defence)

        • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday April 09 2018, @09:44PM

          by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Monday April 09 2018, @09:44PM (#664700) Homepage
          Yeah, it's insane that it took only a couple of days to get that resolved completely.
          In the US he'd probably have been locked away for a couple of years or decades (depending on his pantone value), before it got "resolved", where the resolution wouldn't even include compensation for the time spent incarcerated, and might even include a bill for board and lodging.
          --
          Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by sjames on Monday April 09 2018, @08:13PM (4 children)

        by sjames (2882) on Monday April 09 2018, @08:13PM (#664645) Journal

        How did you get those knives from the store where you bought them to your home?

        Also note that chefs do NOT leave their knives at work. They are a highly personalized instrument of their craft.

        • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday April 09 2018, @09:39PM (3 children)

          by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Monday April 09 2018, @09:39PM (#664695) Homepage
          The knives in the blister-pack so tough I need an angle grinder to get them out?
          Or the knives in the elegant velvet-padded wooden presentation case with the locking clasps?
          Or the knives in the bamboo-wood block that all came packed in polystyrene inside a sealed cardboard box?

          I can honestly say that I've never met a chef that doesn't leave the knives he uses at work. And I know dozens of chefs - one of my side jobs involves dealing with chefs directly. Including Michelin starred ones. I also know musicians who leave their kit in their practice rooms or studios. I know artists who leave everything in their studios. I know jewellers who leave everything in their workshops. These people are no less attached to their craft and the personally-selected tools they use for their craft than chefs. Get over yourself.
          --
          Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
          • (Score: 2) by sjames on Monday April 09 2018, @11:31PM (2 children)

            by sjames (2882) on Monday April 09 2018, @11:31PM (#664738) Journal

            And I have seen chefs carry their knives with them when they go home, or to work. It is the mayor of London that needs to do the getting over.

            You seem angry that I pointed out reasonable exceptions to the mayor's "no exceptions". I'n not sure why.

            • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday April 09 2018, @11:57PM (1 child)

              by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Monday April 09 2018, @11:57PM (#664744) Homepage
              I would claim that clearly known in advance legal exceptions are not reasonable exceptions to a comment about illegal things, they add nothing to the conversation apart from attempting to dilute the essence of his point, which is that illegal things are illegal, and don't do illegal things, m/kay.

              He's not changing the law, merely how it's to be enforced.

              I'm not angry, I simply can't be arsed to put on a veneer of pretend politeness.
              --
              Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
              • (Score: 2) by sjames on Tuesday April 10 2018, @12:56AM

                by sjames (2882) on Tuesday April 10 2018, @12:56AM (#664759) Journal

                In the same spirit, well excuse the fuck out of me for commenting on the plain English sentence: "No excuses: there is never a reason to carry a knife," and your indication that that would also apply to carrying kitchen knives for the purpose of cooking.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by MostCynical on Monday April 09 2018, @06:05AM (13 children)

    by MostCynical (2589) on Monday April 09 2018, @06:05AM (#664229) Journal

    sharp sticks

    Then

    All sticks

    Then walking sticks
    Crutches
    Brooms
    Rakes
    Chop sticks
    Tooth picks
    Hair pins
    Coat hangers

    --
    "I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
    • (Score: 3, Informative) by Bot on Monday April 09 2018, @06:28AM (6 children)

      by Bot (3902) on Monday April 09 2018, @06:28AM (#664239) Journal

      what if the attacker has a pointed stick?

      --
      Account abandoned.
      • (Score: 2) by coolgopher on Monday April 09 2018, @06:32AM

        by coolgopher (1157) on Monday April 09 2018, @06:32AM (#664245)

        Or a blunt, rusty spoon? Won't somebody think of the children?

      • (Score: 2) by MostCynical on Monday April 09 2018, @07:18AM (3 children)

        by MostCynical (2589) on Monday April 09 2018, @07:18AM (#664270) Journal

        Damn, left bananas off my list!

        --
        "I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @08:18AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @08:18AM (#664291)

          Then don't blame me, when some homicidal maniac comes at you with a bunch of . . .

          When you're walking home tonight and some homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me!

          http://www.montypython.net/scripts/fruit.php

        • (Score: 2) by Freeman on Monday April 09 2018, @03:39PM (1 child)

          by Freeman (732) on Monday April 09 2018, @03:39PM (#664496) Journal

          Please don't forget the evils of Tea Cups. Vin Diesel showed the evils thereof.

          --
          Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @06:25PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @06:25PM (#664581)

            Do you want English anarchy? Cause they is how you get English anarchy.

      • (Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Monday April 09 2018, @03:16PM

        by hemocyanin (186) on Monday April 09 2018, @03:16PM (#664480) Journal

        Let him attack you. Seriously. See here: https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=24987&cid=664479 [soylentnews.org]

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @08:15AM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @08:15AM (#664289)

      Don't forget pens and pencils. Deadly things .. think of John Wick and The Joker.

      • (Score: 5, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @12:09PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @12:09PM (#664373)

        At the Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport, an individual later discovered to be a public school teacher was arrested by the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) while attempting to board a flight.

        In his possession they found a ruler, protractor, set square and a calculator. Authorities believe he is a member of the notorious al-Gebra movement. He is being charged with carrying weapons of math instruction.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @02:45PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @02:45PM (#664457)

          He was a Mathochist.

        • (Score: 1) by Kalas on Wednesday April 11 2018, @10:02PM

          by Kalas (4247) on Wednesday April 11 2018, @10:02PM (#665575)

          Beyond just modding that funny, I feel the need to say that you made my day with that comment.

    • (Score: 2) by Zinho on Monday April 09 2018, @02:14PM

      by Zinho (759) on Monday April 09 2018, @02:14PM (#664428)

      sharp sticks

      Then

      All sticks

      Then walking sticks

      You laugh, but: Shillelagh [wikipedia.org]

      Given the history between England and Ireland, I'm surprised Irish walking sticks aren't already illegal in London.

      --
      "Space Exploration is not endless circles in low earth orbit." -Buzz Aldrin
    • (Score: 2) by acid andy on Monday April 09 2018, @04:07PM

      by acid andy (1683) on Monday April 09 2018, @04:07PM (#664516) Homepage Journal

      Yes all eating implements including forks and spoons after upticks in spoon related violence. After that everyone's fists will have to be wrapped in huge cotton wool boxing gloves, then their entire bodies wrapped in the stuff, then their teeth behind muzzles and their hands tied behind their back whenever they want to go out in public. All eating and drinking will be done by bending forward and sucking through a collapsible cardboard straw (with blunted edges to avoid paper cuts). Oh and no gatherings of more than two people will then be allowed (one if male). Each person must carry 1000 miniature body mounted cameras that record them constantly at 950 frames per second at hundreds of different angles and scales, right down to the molecular level. All audio will also be recorded at frequencies ranging from 1 cycle per age-of-universe to 1 cycle per Planck time. All this captured data will be constantly uploaded to all IPv6 IP addresses, except the Russian ones obviously.

      --
      If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Bot on Monday April 09 2018, @06:22AM (68 children)

    by Bot (3902) on Monday April 09 2018, @06:22AM (#664234) Journal

    It's as if reducing a complex problem on a single parameter and acting blindly on it didn't solve the problem, as theory and practice taught us infinite times.

    Let's be serious. The people in charge have their plan and arms reduction is part of it. It came from the nazi right in the 30s, now it comes from the left, this just proves the color of the flag does not matter.
    Banning guns SURELY resulted in less deaths. You know what would give us even less deaths? A checkpoint on every street corner, a ban on all communication that does not flow from a centralized server. The same system that caused the havoc of modern society is eager to offer us a solution, and threaten chaos should meatbags not accept it.

    Also, it's interesting to witness the moderation of moderate Islam. Sadiq khan has already spoken against too revealing females in advertising posters IIRC.

    --
    Account abandoned.
    • (Score: -1, Troll) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday April 09 2018, @06:29AM (67 children)

      Um... Nazis were leftists.

      --
      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @06:39AM (20 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @06:39AM (#664252)

        Um... Nazis were leftists.

        I guess only for the current Nazis called "Trumpsters"?? In the real world, Nazis are what we call "extreme far right".

        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by FakeBeldin on Monday April 09 2018, @07:43AM (10 children)

          by FakeBeldin (3360) on Monday April 09 2018, @07:43AM (#664280) Journal

          Oh, I'm sure TMB can find something they did in the political spectrum that does not fit the "right" category, ergo it must fit the "left" category.

          There are more aspects to politics than can be graded on a two-point scale.

          • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday April 09 2018, @11:44AM (8 children)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 09 2018, @11:44AM (#664365) Journal

            While you guys are poking fun at TMB, the Nazis gained power by appealing to the SOCIALIST Nationalists. Like socialists everywhere, they wore that kid-glove of socialism until they had power, then they showed their iron fist of power.

            Hitler and Stalin were so very much alike, in so many ways.

            • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @12:33PM (7 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @12:33PM (#664378)

              "Hitler and Stalin were so very much alike, in so many ways."

              No they weren't. Stalin murdered over 40 Million Russian civilians. Hitler murdered 0.0 Million Germans. Big difference.

              • (Score: 4, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Monday April 09 2018, @01:17PM (5 children)

                by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 09 2018, @01:17PM (#664389) Journal

                Actually, the majority of those killed by Stalin were not Russians. Let's see - there were Armenians, Azerbaijani, Belarussians, Estonians, Georgians, Kazakhstani, Kyrgystans, Latvians, Lithuanians, Moldovans, Tajikstani, Turkmenistani, Ukrainians, and Uzbekstani - and those are just the official members of the USSR, not counting the client nations. https://www.thoughtco.com/what-was-the-ussr-1434459 [thoughtco.com]

                More here - http://www.wisegeek.org/which-countries-were-part-of-the-soviet-union.htm [wisegeek.org]

                Sattelite nations included Poland, East German, Czechoslovakia, Hungry, Romania, Bulgaria and Yugoslavia.

                It may also interest you to know that Stalin was not a Russian at all. Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili 18 December 1878 Gori, Tiflis Governorate, Caucasus Viceroyalty, Russian Empire Note the "empire" portion of that birthplace - he wasn't born "Russian", any more than a Jew was born a Roman.

                Now, you've made me kinda curious. Did Stalin kill as many Georgians, proportionately, as he killed other people? Or, did he go easy on his kin?

                As for Hitler - he killed a fair number of his fellow Germans. Have you forgotten Jews, Gypsies, political opponents, homosexuals, mental deficients, and probably more that I can't think of at the moment? I really fail to see your "big difference". Maybe you can explain it better.

                • (Score: 2) by Bot on Monday April 09 2018, @02:09PM (2 children)

                  by Bot (3902) on Monday April 09 2018, @02:09PM (#664423) Journal

                  Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin was Georgian.

                  --
                  Account abandoned.
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @06:57PM (1 child)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @06:57PM (#664606)

                  Those living under Stalin's rule were (loosely) called Russian. One cannot go into individual nationalities and geographical areas and cities.

                  http://www.ibtimes.com/how-many-people-did-joseph-stalin-kill-1111789 [ibtimes.com]

                  Your whitewashing of history is not going well although you tried.

                  "he killed a fair number of his fellow Germans"

                  Please link me to reliable sources for the above. Real history, as opposed to propaganda and court history. Your accusations are serious, so the evidence better be real good and reliable.

                  And going back to your original statement: "Hitler and Stalin were so very much alike, in so many ways."

                  Please enumerate those many ways that Hitler and Stalin were alike. Stalin was hated and feared during his rule. Hitler was loved and respected very much during his brief period of leadership. Hitler was one of the greatest men who ever lived.

                  • (Score: 2) by Bot on Monday April 09 2018, @11:47PM

                    by Bot (3902) on Monday April 09 2018, @11:47PM (#664742) Journal

                    Please enumerate those many ways that Hitler and Stalin were alike.
                    1. moustaches
                    2. too little military training
                    3. slight personality disorders

                    --
                    Account abandoned.
              • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Monday April 09 2018, @07:05PM

                by tangomargarine (667) on Monday April 09 2018, @07:05PM (#664609)

                No they weren't. Stalin murdered over 40 Million Russian civilians. Hitler murdered 0.0 Million Germans. Big difference.

                So we're defining Jews as non-Germans?

                --
                "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
          • (Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Monday April 09 2018, @12:20PM

            by PiMuNu (3823) on Monday April 09 2018, @12:20PM (#664377)

            I think they were economically socialist weren't they? I mean, massive government spending on huge military requires high taxation; implicit in total war is extreme repression of civil liberties (rationing, curfew, etc) which I think is rather Big government/socialist in outlook. Many independent factories/merchant ships/etc were commandeered for the war effort, and I believe this was done on a non-financial basis. The British, for example, had similar sort of systems in place. This is all rather socialist/communist.

            They may have promoted an economically right-wing rhetoric. I have never really dug into the econmical, philosophical and ethical background to the nazis (Nietzsche etc I guess). I'm just saying in practice they were Big government.

            It all rather depends what you mean by right-wing of course.

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by qzm on Monday April 09 2018, @07:47AM (6 children)

          by qzm (3260) on Monday April 09 2018, @07:47AM (#664281)

          The NAZI party was a solidly centralist party with plenty of left wind policy included.
          They were however a populist totalitarian party, using strong identity politics to separate people in to groups.
          These days they would sit quite fare to the left of the democratic party.

          • (Score: 2, Insightful) by GDX on Monday April 09 2018, @09:00AM (5 children)

            by GDX (1950) on Monday April 09 2018, @09:00AM (#664307)

            I didn't find practically nothing that the NAZI party did that wasn't done by the left in their time, even lot of thing that the people tell that are right wing are actually part of what the left do, even more on that time. Some self proclaimed left independentist movements of today if you analyze their actual behavior their are basically doing the same that the nazis did only with a some minimal differences. For me the approach to socialism of the nazis where a pragmatic one while the communist is a idealist one.

            • (Score: 3, Interesting) by c0lo on Monday April 09 2018, @09:28AM (4 children)

              by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 09 2018, @09:28AM (#664317) Journal

              For me the approach to socialism of the nazis where a pragmatic one while the communist is a idealist one.

              Are you sure that's what it is for you? If positive, you aren't very discerning.
              Killing the untermensch and paying the military industry (Krupp, IG Carbon, Messerschmitt, Topf & Söhne [wikipedia.org], etc) qualify as 'pragmatic socialism' to you?

              --
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @01:38PM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @01:38PM (#664397)

                It was IG Farben [wikipedia.org] not IG Carbon (maybe you confused it with Union Carbide).

                • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday April 09 2018, @02:03PM

                  by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 09 2018, @02:03PM (#664417) Journal

                  Yes. I blame the shitty auto-correct on my mobile (good pastime on the train commute, shit like this can happen though).

                  --
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
              • (Score: 1) by GDX on Monday April 09 2018, @02:03PM (1 child)

                by GDX (1950) on Monday April 09 2018, @02:03PM (#664415)

                But the minorities where also killed by the Russia communists, the Chinese communist under the cultural revolution, the Khmer Rouge... and about paying the military industry, the communist also did it but in a different way after all under the Nazi ideology is that the private companies where under the will and interest of the country (party to be more exact), basically even if your company was private if the government told you to make firearms you had the obligation to do it and can't oppose that decision.

                • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday April 09 2018, @02:21PM

                  by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 09 2018, @02:21PM (#664435) Journal

                  But the minorities where also killed by the Russia communists, the Chinese communist under the cultural revolution, the Khmer Rouge...

                  And the fact that the Nazi and the communist and Mussolini did the same, make a left from all of them?
                  Walk a bit down this line and you'll end in making Richard I a leftist because he taxed hard his nobility to support his crusades, was anti-semitics [wikipedia.org] and killed arabs during the crusades.

                  Rather than regarding his kingdom as a responsibility requiring his presence as ruler, he has been perceived as preferring to use it merely as a source of revenue to support his armies
                  ...
                  When a rumour spread that Richard had ordered all Jews to be killed, the people of London attacked the Jewish population.[54] Many Jewish homes were burned down, and several Jews were forcibly baptised.

                  ---

                  Watch out, you may finish in making even Trump a leftie: after all he promised infrastructure spending (to be paid from tax-pyers pocket) and a beautiful big wall to be paid by others... if this is not socialism by the TMB's definition, I don't know what else is
                  (large grin)

                  --
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @02:58PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @02:58PM (#664468)
          Based on actual policies, Hitler was actually just barely right of center. But he was an extreme fascist, far north on the political spectrum. Today it's fashionable to make everything bi-polar left/right on the spectrum, but I think people often neglect the fascist/liberal poles.

          I blame the schools.
          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday April 09 2018, @04:28PM

            Indeed on the north/south axis. What really chaps my ass is that all the major groups on both ends of the left/right axis in western civilization currently sit pretty damned far north towards authoritarianism, just with different professed reasons as to why.

            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 5, Funny) by c0lo on Monday April 09 2018, @06:40AM (18 children)

        by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 09 2018, @06:40AM (#664253) Journal

        Um... Nazis were leftists.

        Only by name.
        Believing this would very very like believing you can fly only because you call yourself a buzzard.

        --
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
        • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday April 09 2018, @06:49AM (6 children)

          What exactly are you comparing them to that leads you to think they are anything but the left? Certainly not the modern left. They're less than twenty years from putting on actual jackboots of their own. Not even the left of the WWII adjacent decades because the left then was chock full of other "socialist" dictators.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 3, Touché) by c0lo on Monday April 09 2018, @08:40AM

            by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 09 2018, @08:40AM (#664296) Journal

            What exactly are you comparing them to that leads you to think they are anything but the left?

            You made the claim that they were left.
            If you didn't made the claim based on the name they assumed for themselves (that was my assumption), then please provide the evidence for your claim.

            --
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
          • (Score: 5, Informative) by TheRaven on Monday April 09 2018, @09:12AM (4 children)

            by TheRaven (270) on Monday April 09 2018, @09:12AM (#664311) Journal

            What exactly are you comparing them to that leads you to think they are anything but the left?

            How about the fact that they declared communists to be their enemies? The fact that they were in favour of private ownership of the means of production? The fact that they believed that some people were sub-human based on their ethnicity or sexuality?

            Or do you also think that the Democratic Republic of Congo is democratic?

            --
            sudo mod me up
            • (Score: 4, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday April 09 2018, @01:40PM (3 children)

              How about the fact that they declared communists to be their enemies?

              They declared everyone and their dog to be their enemies. Communists were not special in this.

              The fact that they were in favour of private ownership of the means of production?

              <sarcasm>Yes, you can tell this by how they never nationalized anything. Good little capitalists, they were.</sarcasm>

              The fact that they believed that some people were sub-human based on their ethnicity or sexuality?

              So do modern leftists. They're in fact the vast majority of people who care about ethnicity or sexuality at all. They're currently just hating on anyone who's white, male, or heterosexual which is perfectly okay by their logic just as hating Jews and such was perfectly okay by Nazi logic.

              --
              My rights don't end where your fear begins.
              • (Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Monday April 09 2018, @08:18PM (2 children)

                by cmdrklarg (5048) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 09 2018, @08:18PM (#664646)

                They're in fact the vast majority of people who care about ethnicity or sexuality at all.

                Methinks that left-right has very little to do with prejudice (other than what group is being pre-judged). Prejudice is inherently human behavior that comes directly from our reptilian brains. Some people are just less adept at suppressing that impulse. Plenty of those on both sides of left-right.

                --
                The world is full of kings and queens who blind your eyes and steal your dreams.
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @09:32PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @09:32PM (#664692)

                  Prejudice is inherently human behavior that comes directly from our reptilian brains. Some people are just less adept at suppressing that impulse.

                  It sounds like you are admitting to being a reptilian who psychically induces prejudice in humans, but are deflecting any blame or responsibility by saying it is only taking advantage of an innate ability. Ie you aren't making any humans do anything, just giving them an impulse. This is where conspiracies come from.

                • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday April 09 2018, @09:50PM

                  Normally I'd agree with you but the left has been cultivating prejudice as a political weapon for several decades now. The right is happy to take advantage of naturally occurring prejudice but it doesn't really put any effort into creating it.

                  --
                  My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @06:51AM (5 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @06:51AM (#664262)

          >Mandate sane work hour
          >Construct Autobahn to ensure workers can take their off days on vacations
          >Ensure that Corps benefit the Volk first
          >Control prices of food so farmers can work sustainably
          >Loaning money to start families and then forgiving them
          >not socialist at all

          K.

          • (Score: 5, Informative) by c0lo on Monday April 09 2018, @08:47AM (2 children)

            by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 09 2018, @08:47AM (#664300) Journal

            But excluding the "Untermensch", right?
            How this makes them "left" (which doesn't discriminate when it comes to welfare) and not just "extreme nationalistic, kill the others and redistribute to yours"?
            Or... do you think that they redistributed the wealth of Krupp or of the IG Farben conglomerate?

            --
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 10 2018, @12:19AM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 10 2018, @12:19AM (#664750)

              The left did it with purging traitors and installing party functionaries, what is your point?

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @03:55PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @03:55PM (#664506)

            Construct Autobahn to ensure workers can take their off days on vacations

            The true reason for the Autobahn was to enable efficient transport of military equipment towards the border, in preparation of the war they were already planning. Of course that wasn't what they told the people.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 10 2018, @12:16AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 10 2018, @12:16AM (#664747)

              Did you know industrialization also allows production of military hardware?

        • (Score: 4, Informative) by FatPhil on Monday April 09 2018, @11:54AM (4 children)

          by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Monday April 09 2018, @11:54AM (#664368) Homepage
          Barely even by name. The "National Socialism" from their name is a one word phrase that cannot simply be split into its two component words that are then interpreted independently.

          Hitler did, however use the single word "socialism" many times to describe himself, but it's clear that this was art of a more populist rhetoric "we must overthrow the elite ruling class, smash the system". This rhetoric, whilst recognisably having a lot in common with socialist rhetoric, is actually the identical rhetoric used by all the downtrodden no matter the politics of the ruling class or what they want to replace it with. SUch statementas actually carry almost no real information. Most revealing is that when giving an explanation of "socialism" Hitler basically described simply nationalism, having nothing in common with anything Marxist. "Whoever is prepared to make the national cause his own to such an extent that he knows no higher ideal than the welfare of the nation; whoever has understood our great national anthem, “Deutschland ueber Alles,” to mean that nothing in the wide world surpasses in his eyes this Germany, people and land — that man is a Socialist." Erm, sorry Addy, nope. So the waters on this matter were already muddied beyond clarification by the early 20s.

          So people who call the Nazi's socialist are just doing what Hitler did.
          --
          Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @03:08PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @03:08PM (#664474)

            Whaaat? TMB is a hypictite who secretly wants to be Hitler? I'm shocked! Appalled!!

          • (Score: 2) by quacking duck on Monday April 09 2018, @03:14PM (1 child)

            by quacking duck (1395) on Monday April 09 2018, @03:14PM (#664478)

            Good analysis. If America's alt-right think Hitler and the Nazis were at all socialist in practice, then they in fact voted in a dirty socialist in 2016.

            • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday April 09 2018, @09:46PM

              by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Monday April 09 2018, @09:46PM (#664702) Homepage
              Sigh... I'm kinda disappointed nobody detected my deliberate Godwinning in the final sentence. :-)
              --
              Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
      • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @06:44AM (5 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @06:44AM (#664256)

        Nazi are of course far right extremists, and even American "liberals" are right of center.
        America doesn't really have a left wing, but it soon will as Americans become increasingly class conscious, and turn against their media.

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday April 09 2018, @06:50AM (2 children)

          Yes, class warfare is precisely what every country needs. How else are the politicos supposed to control us if they can't serve us up a convenient enemy to hate instead of them?

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @07:26AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @07:26AM (#664273)

            If only you had some class, Minty Frombart! At least some class, even a low class! Middle class? But then, there is nonesuch in Oklahoma, and Tennessee is nothing but low. So sad, too bad. May I recommend your local Community College, once again? You might acquire some knowledge, and hence some class. Or, you can stay the red-neck noodling fisher-person you claim to be, and watch your own country go down in flames, lies, perfidy, and stock-market crashes. And you think you will survive this? Oh, TMB, we are in this together, and you are going down with the rest of us. And your one little "symbolic, never been fired" assault weapon will count for naught. We are coming for your capital gains, Chuck!!!

          • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @01:01PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @01:01PM (#664385)

            Yes, institutionalized oppression and obscene levels of inequality are precisely what every country needs...

            The problem is not that the politicos control us, but that the extremely wealthy exert undue influence over the politicians and the rest of us as well.

            Why is slavery never called class warfare, only attempts by the victims to end it?

        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @06:59AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @06:59AM (#664264)

          They're already turning against the media, except they're labeled alt-right, nazis, deplorables and conspiracy theorists. Their class consciousness is apparently racial politics if you believe the media. I hope you get what you wish for :)

          • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @07:07AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @07:07AM (#664269)

            Death to all elites. Regardless of political labels they apply to themselves, or are applied by others.
            Kill. Them. All.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Monday April 09 2018, @07:19AM (13 children)

        by aristarchus (2645) on Monday April 09 2018, @07:19AM (#664271) Journal

        For a coder, you are so fucking ignorant, TMB. No wonder you perma-banned Ethanol_fueled. You censorer, you!

        • (Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Monday April 09 2018, @08:59AM (12 children)

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 09 2018, @08:59AM (#664306) Journal

          No wonder you perma-banned Ethanol_fueled

          [Citation needed]
          No, I'm not confrontational, I'm genuinely curios about the details of a ban on eth.

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
          • (Score: 3, Informative) by aristarchus on Monday April 09 2018, @09:17AM (11 children)

            by aristarchus (2645) on Monday April 09 2018, @09:17AM (#664313) Journal

            Right now, see archfeld's journal, https://soylentnews.org/~archfeld/journal/ [soylentnews.org] for what is left. Only half-seriously pointing a finger at the mighty buss, since none of the eds seem to know what is going on. Check IRC, #Editorial, as usual. Curious, don't you think?

            • (Score: 3, Interesting) by c0lo on Monday April 09 2018, @09:53AM (10 children)

              by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 09 2018, @09:53AM (#664324) Journal

              Check IRC, #Editorial, as usual.

              I must admit, that would be far from the usual for me. This is why my thanks for the linky.

              Curious, don't you think?

              Intriguing, yes.
              In particular, the fact that the IP of an anonymous poster may be used for permabaning, which means it is somehow recorded.
              Does it mean S/N can provide the usian agencies with a log of past activity originated from an IP if requested?

              --
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
              • (Score: 3, Informative) by aristarchus on Monday April 09 2018, @09:59AM (7 children)

                by aristarchus (2645) on Monday April 09 2018, @09:59AM (#664328) Journal

                And here I was just wondering why Auzzies would need a chainsaw to cut up their steaks, unless the 'Roo is really that tough? Yes, I too have been IP banned. So much for anonymity and cowardice on the high seas of free speech at SoylentNews. All you have to do, apparently, is spam mod The Moulting Buzzard, and you, too, could be ip banned! Fun for all ages.

                • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday April 09 2018, @12:06PM (1 child)

                  by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 09 2018, @12:06PM (#664372) Journal

                  And here I was just wondering why Auzzies would need a chainsaw to cut up their steaks, unless the 'Roo is really that tough?

                  Naah, it's the size of the steak - a knife just isn't large enough to cut through it and, if it is it (that's a knife, remember?), it's too much effort, you'll be exhausted before getting through the 24 stubs in a slab of beer you have to have before dessert.

                  Yes, I too have been IP banned.

                  TMB: Is S/N able to offer to any agency requesting it (with a mandate) the collection of all messages originated from any IP?

                  --
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
                  • (Score: 4, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday April 09 2018, @01:48PM

                    No. We'd have to build a rainbow table for the salt + every possible IP address we hash together and then store for a maximum of two weeks. It allows us to do adminy tasks based on IP address without being able to find out what that address actually is.

                    --
                    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @03:12PM (4 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @03:12PM (#664476)

                  TMB stated this before, IPs are stored as hashes but with a little effort he could dig in the db and find out each poster's IP address. SN is not the surveillance free platform you think. Better than some I'm sure, but given the extreme views of some here it feels a little more like a honey pot.

                  • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday April 09 2018, @04:46PM (3 children)

                    s/a little/considerable/

                    Building and searching a rainbow table that includes every IPv4 address is no trivial task. If you're using an IPv6 address, it's simply not possible and never will be. Even with all physically possible storage improvements, you'd need a storage device nearly as large as the moon just to hold the table. Searching it would take calculating capacity and power consumption beyond belief.

                    --
                    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @06:29PM (2 children)

                      by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @06:29PM (#664587)

                      Nice backpedaling, I'm glad we only have to take your unassailable WORD for it.

                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @09:07PM

                        by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @09:07PM (#664677)

                        You know, you can read the source...

                      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday April 09 2018, @09:54PM

                        Read the source and do the math. If you really want to make sure, join the staff and verify it for yourself. We've never turned anyone away who was willing to save us a bit of effort.

                        --
                        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
              • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Monday April 09 2018, @06:40PM (1 child)

                by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 09 2018, @06:40PM (#664594) Journal

                Does it mean S/N can provide the usian agencies with a log of past activity originated from an IP if requested?

                No - we have a one-way hash of the IP address. So we can tell when posts come from the same source, but we cannot tell where that source is. Now, if some idiots use the same IP for their UID and when posting as AC it doesn't take much to link the two together. But we have nothing to give to anyone that demands to see any activity from a specific IP.

                Furthermore, if some want to post as AC using some of the popular VPNs, and that VPN is also being used to spam or flood the site, then they will also be blocked if we pull the plug on that VPN, either permanently or temporarily. Your anonymity comes at a price - for you.

                Next, if EF is still posting to his journals complaining about being 'permabanned' then he must be a bit slow on the uptake - how can he be posting on the site if, as he claims, he is banned from posting to the site? The truth is that he is not, and never was, banned from the site. But he was probably using an IP that was also being used by something that we had to protect the site against. That is why the editors were discussing the claim by EF that he had been banned - his claim is rubbish.

                And finally, when Ari starts stirring it all up you can almost guarantee that his is talking out of his ass again. I fully expect to receive accusations that we are all alt-right supporters simply because the vast majority of his submissions get rejected.

                • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday April 09 2018, @09:57PM

                  That sounds like alt-right talk to me, mister. Get the torches and pitchforks!

                  Seriously though, it was a coding fuck-up on my part that will be fixed soon. He got modded Spam twice while I was out of state which was then reversed properly on his account karma but not on the ipid karma.

                  --
                  My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 3, Informative) by Bot on Monday April 09 2018, @07:59AM (5 children)

        by Bot (3902) on Monday April 09 2018, @07:59AM (#664286) Journal

        The right is nationalist, the left is mondialist. Modern nations are result of masonic activity, so in the end they are faces of the same medal. They each get parts of the real agenda and implement them. Gun control is in the agenda obviously. The other things they implement (social justice, economic freedom) get reversed as soon as the other side rises to power. Two dogs, one bunch of sheep.

        --
        Account abandoned.
        • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday April 09 2018, @09:34PM (4 children)

          by Phoenix666 (552) on Monday April 09 2018, @09:34PM (#664694) Journal

          Modern nations are result of masonic activity, so in the end they are faces of the same medal. They each get parts of the real agenda and implement them. Gun control is in the agenda obviously.

          I don't know how you figure that. The United States was definitely founded by Masons on masonic principles, but then most people reckon freedom of speech, press, etc. and democracy to be good things. There have also been famous masons at work in other countries, like Simon de Bolivar and Garibaldi. But they are far from the driving force in "modern nations."

          There is no "agenda," either, because Masons truly come from all walks of life, religions, races, and creeds. In fact you are expressly forbidden from discussing religion or politics of any kind with other Masons because those subjects are inherently divisive; nothing can get you drummed out of the fraternity faster than talking about those things in lodge. So, even if Masons did talk about religion or politics they would never fashion an agenda because they'd never agree on what the agenda should be.

          (That is something I like about Freemasons, though, is that they are all iconoclasts, free thinkers. Group think is anathema to them. That's refreshing in an era filled with dull, hackneyed political tropes.)

          I've been a mason for about 20 years and have been Master of my lodge in NYC, which is one of the two wealthiest and strongest lodges in New York; I know all the secrets and have travelled pretty widely, so I say that with confidence. If Masons were in control of world affairs the way you suppose, I would know.

          Further, I've been shooting with my brothers, so I can also firmly refute your claim that Masons want to ban guns.

          --
          Washington DC delenda est.
          • (Score: 2) by Bot on Monday April 09 2018, @11:32PM (3 children)

            by Bot (3902) on Monday April 09 2018, @11:32PM (#664739) Journal

            > phoenix666
            > phoenix
            > 666
            > rebirth of strict humanism (giving the 666 the most favorable meaning ofc)
            > a mason

            Holy Apron, Batman, I am surprised.

            > Garibaldi
            He too, but what about Carboneria and the much revered "outsider" Mazzini? And the upside down star of Casa Savoia, those guys who unify Italy absorbing the public debt of annexed territories (they knew who the real master is, already)?.

            > There is no agenda.
            If no one else ranks above you, I can believe you no probs.

            > Further, I've been shooting with my brothers, so I can also firmly refute your claim that Masons want to ban guns.
            What if the brothers are more equal than the others?

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            Account abandoned.
            • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday April 10 2018, @12:33AM (2 children)

              by Phoenix666 (552) on Tuesday April 10 2018, @12:33AM (#664753) Journal

              Numerology is popular with some masons. I don't care too much, myself. The phoenix is the symbol of my alma mater. The 666 i don't remember why i chose it, because it was my /. Handle and i created that long, long ago.

              Nobody ranks above me in the Craft. Once you're a Master Mason you're equal to every other Master Mason. There are other appendant bodies like the York Rite, Scottish Rite, and Royal Arch, but those radiate out horizontally from Master Mason. A Master Mason is entitled to all the secrets in the Craft.

              As such there's no concept of "more equal than others." We have heads of state visit our lodge (Gabon, Cameroon, and one other i forget) and they come in like regular Brothers and meet on the level. We only learned they were heads of state much later by happenstance when members of our lodge were travelling in those places and looked them up.

               

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              Washington DC delenda est.
              • (Score: 2) by Bot on Tuesday April 10 2018, @08:34AM (1 child)

                by Bot (3902) on Tuesday April 10 2018, @08:34AM (#664863) Journal

                So the club is frequented by politicians, yet you don't organize punitive expeditions on them when they fuck up (twice a day on average). You are a strange kind.

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                Account abandoned.
                • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday April 10 2018, @10:59AM

                  by Phoenix666 (552) on Tuesday April 10 2018, @10:59AM (#664883) Journal

                  The Master of the lodge two years after me was an escalator repairman. The guy after him was a photographer. My lodge has Catholics, Protestants, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, a Baha'i, a Druze from Lebanon, and even a couple Pagans from one sort of witchcraft or other in it. They really come from all walks of life and backgrounds and i would never have met them otherwise. The politicians were infrequent, but the notable part was that through masonry they were all on the level (equal) and none of the worldly title or position mattered. In fact when the guy from Gabon visited the Master of the lodge at the time was a retired NYC detective.

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                  Washington DC delenda est.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @03:59PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @03:59PM (#664509)

        No matter how many times you claim that, you'll still be wrong slugger.

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