Submitted via IRC for SoyCow9228
Those stickers on gadgets that say you'll void your warranty if they're removed? You've probably come to expect them whenever you purchase a new device. The FTC has just made clear, however, that those warranty notices are illegal when it fired off warning letters to six companies that market and sell automobiles, mobile devices and video game consoles in the US. It didn't mention which automakers and tech corporations they are, but since the list includes companies that make video game consoles, Sony and Microsoft could be two of them.
[...] Thomas B. Pahl, Acting Director of the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection, said in a statement:
"Provisions that tie warranty coverage to the use of particular products or services harm both consumers who pay more for them as well as the small businesses who offer competing products and services."
Source: https://www.engadget.com/2018/04/11/ftc-warranty-warning/
(Score: 4, Insightful) by progo on Thursday April 12 2018, @03:29PM (7 children)
Is it still a criminal offense to break into your own farm equipment, and help others do so, in order to repair them?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 12 2018, @03:43PM (6 children)
On that level, I can totally see electronics makers now using digital DRM as the new "Do not remove" tag. IE: Have it set up so that the system is able to detect when certain parts are removed, and to brick itself in the case it detects that. The Official Repair People of course will know how to repair that particular "damage" (Which bits need to be reset, etc after it's all closed up again.) On their side, the company will indicate that their warranty won't include particular "errors" unless an expensive extended warranty is purchased.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Spamalope on Thursday April 12 2018, @04:08PM (4 children)
Tesla is the car you're thinking of then. All parts with electricity are chipped, and the chips tied to a specific vehicle. Not only must you use OEM stratospherically priced parts, you must not used parts from a wreck and they can only be installed at a Tesla facility.
I bet they'd like to thank Apple for training their customers to accept this.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 12 2018, @04:18PM
Wow, didn't know that bit. This example is a great bit about why we need to regulate companies to protect consumers to at the very least have a full disclosure pamphlet about the limitations / requirements / privacy violations a product might have. Not to mention a "no leopard fighting" policy for customers looking for such info. Make it immediately available at least through a direct link printed on the packaging.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by DeathMonkey on Thursday April 12 2018, @05:24PM (2 children)
Well I'd like to see a citation for those allegations since a lot of that is explicitly prohibited by the FTC and there is a wealth of case-law saying the opposite as well.
(Score: 4, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Thursday April 12 2018, @05:28PM (1 child)
Additionally, here is a 3rd party repair shop [serviceking.com] a quick Googling found.
(Score: 2) by Spamalope on Friday April 13 2018, @12:49PM
Rich Rebuilds channel on You tube is a reasonable source for info.
If you're in a state with a right to repair law you can get (very expensively) the software to get the car going.
Once catch is that Tesla restricts parts access. Insurance companies label cars a salvage after minor damage because of that expense (dented fender/bumper cover for a totaled car). Tesla blocks any parts ordering or repair of cars that are so labeled. You can't even get the phone app. No safety recalls will be performed, you can't even buy the parts to repair a defect. (I'm not aware of any other manufacturer that does this)
(Score: 1) by Sulla on Thursday April 12 2018, @05:02PM
In all fairness it is a new patent/different subject because now its on a computer
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 3, Insightful) by bob_super on Thursday April 12 2018, @04:33PM (8 children)
I'm glad we don't sell electronics to the public, who clearly doesn't understand ESD.
Besides bargain-bin Chinese-made junk, most consumer electronics is too integrated to be repaired. Computer-like devices can get parts swapped, but that's about it. That won't prevent people from opening the box and doing more damage before they waste millions or billions with unrefurbishable RMAs.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by schusselig on Thursday April 12 2018, @04:55PM (1 child)
Companies can still claim the warranty is void if they can demonstrate that the not-official service caused the damage. An example I read somewhere was, if you take your car to a third party shop to replace a belt (or replace it yourself), and the new belt is installed incorrectly, damages from that need not be covered by the warranty, but a failure elsewhere would still be covered. Being incompetent and destroying your shit should void your warranty, opening your device to replace a broken part should not.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 12 2018, @05:05PM
But ESD damage is almost always invisible. It does not take much to fry the microscopic features on a semiconductor, and they are usually encased in epoxy making it essentially impossible to inspect after encapsulation.
Is it sufficent to say that the warranty is void because the customer did not take adequate precautions against ESD?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 12 2018, @04:57PM
I always cringe when I see people handling electronics with absolutely no ESD precautions whatsoever. I assumed that was the main reason for these stickers, because ESD damage very often results in intermittent problems that are difficult to detect and reproduce.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Thursday April 12 2018, @05:16PM (3 children)
There is no reason why a cellphone must have a battery with adhesive on the back (removing which requires either lots of patience or damages the screen underneath) a flimsy connector instead of the contacts that still work in camcorders of the early 90s, and an additional plastic shell kept in place by 15 little screws (another shell? I thought they wanted the stuff to be slim).
The politicians that like to legiferate on the curvature of the bananas let the abomination of unrepairable non standard equipment to be sold. Talk about saving the planet from waste.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 12 2018, @05:30PM (2 children)
No reason? Of course there is a reason, and that reason is cost. Connectors are very often the most expensive and least reliable component on a board. Market pressures mostly push consumer electronics manufacturers to minimize the per-unit cost as much as possible. Whenever you see any connector on a consumer device you can bet the designers only put it there because they had no other choice, or the alternative was more expensive. In this case, the designers will naturally choose the cheapest connector available that meets their design and production requirements.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Thursday April 12 2018, @10:44PM (1 child)
> and that reason is cost
wat
First, the tolerances in the flimsy connector are much lower than the usual contacts, so it costs more. It surely has a size advantage, but could consumer choose they would sacrifice 2 mm of battery to have an interchangeable one.
Or, what about the laptop, the led that used to tell you if the webcam was on? had its own circuit and was software operated, instead of being electrically operated. That is an increase of cost both in software maintenance and in hardware (more cables) Some here claimed it is to facilitate testing. Yet it's another reason other than cost, and after all the state sponsored malware it is easy to grasp the probable real reason.
Or, what about wireless headphones costing plus infinity (because you keep losing them)?
Have you tried audio devices of the 70s/80s? those DINs and RCAs and jacks still work perfectly. Try with a 4 year cellphone and it crackles. Try a recent male jack and it falls apart in two years of two inserts per day.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 13 2018, @01:35AM
Phone manufacturers most likely use whatever connector their battery suppliers use. The battery suppliers use whatever connector their assembler has available that meets their requirements.
Customizing the parts always costs more.
Straw man; that's not a connector.
The devices you are thinking of cost a lot more to produce than a cellphone did 4 years ago. Also note survivor bias: most people don't keep broken equipment.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 12 2018, @07:10PM
fuck off esd bullshit salesman.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 12 2018, @04:41PM (3 children)
The place that I remember seeing this kind of sticker is over one or more screws that hold the case together. In other words, if you want to unscrew the case you have to either remove the sticker, or poke a hole in it for the screwdriver/Allen-key/Torx. From memory this is most common on small electronics (calculators, etc), but I guess it could be on nearly any product that needs to be opened to be repaired.
If I'm curious about the guts of something, I usually wait until the warranty is up before opening it -- delayed gratification? The other option is to remove the label carefully so it can be replaced, often solvents like lacquer thinner can help with this.
Nice to know that the sticker doesn't mean anything anymore, but as time goes on the guts of many things have become one chip on a board, looking inside doesn't reveal anything interesting. It's still possible to fix many things by cleaning off contacts and other simple "mechanical" fixes.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Thursday April 12 2018, @05:18PM
> or poke a hole in it
well poking a hole is not removing (insert "I removed your mom" joke here), so...
Account abandoned.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 12 2018, @11:17PM (1 child)
Yes, anymore, specifically since 1975. [wikipedia.org] I.e., it didn't mean anything (and was blatantly illegal) for the past 43 years.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 13 2018, @05:50AM
I always found it funny that laws are so selectively enforced.
(Score: 4, Informative) by schusselig on Thursday April 12 2018, @04:49PM
In case anyone is interested, FTC has already had some success with this: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2015/10/ftc-approves-final-consent-order-against-bmw-north-america [ftc.gov]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by mobydisk on Thursday April 12 2018, @07:16PM
Back in the late 1990's it was really common for PCs to use these stickers. They were really just to instill fear. One of the most egregious was Packard Bell. They placed a a multi-layered silver such that when you removed the case, the layers split and one half of the sticker would say "Packard" and the other would say "Bell." It was nigh impossible to put the case back on with the sticker such that it lined-up just the way it was before. Of course, upgrading PCs was very common, and even retail stores would do those upgrades when you bought the computer. So there was no way to determine if the sticker was removed by an "authorized" repair shop or not. But this was back in the days where installing Linux voided your warranty because it meant you were a hacker.
(Score: 2) by Wootery on Friday April 13 2018, @09:45AM
So the FTC is saying it's illegal to refuse to repair simply because the customer broke a sticker. That's not the same thing as it being against the law to put stickers on your products.