Britain ramped up a Brexit space row with the EU on Thursday, saying it will demand repayment if it is excluded from the Galileo satellite navigation project. Newspaper reports suggested London could seek £1 billion ($1.34 billion, 1.14 billion euros) in compensation for its investment in the programme.
Brussels has said it will deny London access to Galileo's encrypted signals after Brexit, citing legal issues about sharing sensitive security information with a non-member state.
A report issued by Britain's Department for Exiting the European Union said it had "strong objections" to being frozen out of the 10-billion-euro programme and called for an "urgent resolution to the exclusion". "Should the UK's future access be restricted, the UK's past contribution to the financing of space assets should be discussed," the report said. The British report suggested it may have to reopen negotiations on the £39 billion (40-45 billion euros) Brexit "divorce bill" that was agreed in December to make up for its exclusion. It said the deal agreed then had provided for Britain's continued involvement in the Galileo programme, which has important uses in both the civilian and military fields.
[...] Britain played a major role in developing Galileo, an alternative to the US's GPS, which is expected to be fully operational in 2026. It demands continued British access to the secure signal and a right to compete for contracts. Britain is looking into developing its own, separate system if the EU maintains its position, and has also raised the question of Galileo's use of Britain's overseas territories as monitoring bases.
[...] The Times newspaper reported Thursday that the decision to block Britain was being led by a "German-backed clique" in the European Commission, and that it had caused a rift with French officials, who were reportedly unhappy with the plan. Spain, Sweden, the Netherlands and the Baltic states have also objected to denying Britain access, said the report.
(Score: 5, Funny) by turgid on Friday May 25 2018, @09:28PM (17 children)
We don't need navigation satellites in the UK. True patriots know the ley lines of the old oak trees and that all village cricket greens are on a secret hexagonal grid designed to confuse foreigners, especially Frogs and Krauts. And anyway, everything is second left past the post office and two hundred yards on near the pub.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 3, Informative) by Gaaark on Friday May 25 2018, @09:44PM (2 children)
The frogs just want to know where the cricket fields are so they have a nice open area in which to wave the white flag
:)
Here in Canada, everything is just past the beer store.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 1) by snmygos on Saturday May 26 2018, @06:45AM (1 child)
To the idiot: It is a German initiative to which the French and others were opposed.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Saturday May 26 2018, @11:31AM
Ah!
Found the frog.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2, Troll) by realDonaldTrump on Friday May 25 2018, @10:24PM (11 children)
Britain may win the money. And Britain may lose the money. But either way, the great British people are WINNERS. They exercised the sacred right of all free peoples. And voted to reassert control over their own politics, borders and economy. So they'll have a Country again. They're making Britain British again!! #BritainFirst [twitter.com]
(Score: 4, Interesting) by turgid on Friday May 25 2018, @10:31PM (10 children)
Russia first, America first, Britain first, Italy first, Turkey first! Patriotism first! Who will win? Do we have to have some sort of contest to find out?
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 2, Funny) by realDonaldTrump on Friday May 25 2018, @10:43PM (1 child)
The Mayor of London said some things about me. I think they’re very rude statements and frankly, tell him, I will remember those statements. They’re very nasty statements. He doesn’t know what I’m all about. He said I'm "ignorant" about Islam. Believe me, I know more about Islam than anybody. And I said, let’s take an I.Q. test. But he told me "no." Lightweight!!!
(Score: 2, Funny) by turgid on Friday May 25 2018, @10:47PM
Talking of mayors of London...
Q: Where does Ken Livingstone buy his Y-fronts?
A: Marxist Spencer's.
See what I did there?
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 3, Insightful) by bob_super on Friday May 25 2018, @11:22PM (1 child)
We're actively setting up the next contest, but Iran violates the rule that the US bombs countries with less than 35M people, so I'm not sure how that one will turn out. With some luck, it will spread a bit, and we can finally get another global contest.
The computer said something about the best move being not playing, but who cares about the odds when Bolton and Bibi say it's time to go?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday May 26 2018, @11:43AM
No such rule is being violated yet, let us note.
(Score: 3, Funny) by driverless on Saturday May 26 2018, @03:12AM
While the real best country in the world doesn't need to go on and on about it, we just quietly know we're best.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 26 2018, @03:42AM
YES! We can call the contest Who's the World Wide Winner (WW3) and televise it on all the major news networks 24/7. Guaranteed eyeballs! Finally once and for all we can establish which country is the greatest and right all wrongs.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 26 2018, @08:49AM
Contest, eh? We could call it... oh i don't know... WWIII
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by crafoo on Saturday May 26 2018, @11:38AM (1 child)
Good work on either not understanding the concept or wilfully lying and misrepresenting it to further your own dogmatic political views.
Citizens of each country putting the well-being of their country and their countrymen first, particularly in terms of domestic policy and law, doesn't mean immediate global confrontation. Surly you are not that naive.
(Score: 2) by turgid on Saturday May 26 2018, @12:07PM
Surely you're not this ignorant? What happened in 1914 and 1939?
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 2) by fritsd on Saturday May 26 2018, @01:20PM
Well, we had some kind of contest on Youtube to determine who was going to be second.
I think it was the brainchild of the Dutch comedian Arjen Lubach.
It even has its own wiki page! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Every_Second_Counts_(video_contest) [wikipedia.org]
Arjen Lubach video "Netherlands Second" [youtube.com].
My family has never personally been to Ponypark Slagharen, btw. It was a bit far away from where we lived and I was a bit scared of horses.
(Score: 2) by fritsd on Saturday May 26 2018, @01:06PM (1 child)
Yes. Well.
Don't try that near Ryhope Wood [wikipedia.org], or it will take you decades to get out.. and stay away from the Urscumug.
(Score: 2) by turgid on Saturday May 26 2018, @07:53PM
King Arthur will emerge from a cave and save us.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 3, Insightful) by FatPhil on Friday May 25 2018, @10:20PM (34 children)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 25 2018, @11:14PM (1 child)
"hey pay for my stuff"
"sure I will help if I can use it too"
"oh you are leaving? Well fuck you you can not have any of this stuff"
"Well I want my share"
"well fuck you!"
"Yeah see you in court for breach of contract"
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 26 2018, @03:45AM
"Read the contract"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 26 2018, @12:37AM (18 children)
Fine, there goes your divorce deal sweetheart. Also the UK populace never signed up to surrender their sovereignty to a federal superstate, they voted for a trade block. So for the length of time the EU has been dictating any UK law other than trade, we'll have a full refund.
Audit the accounts in full by Monday [fullfact.org] and we'll work out how much you owe us. Cheers!
(Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Saturday May 26 2018, @12:41AM (6 children)
A full refund of exactly what?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 26 2018, @01:12AM (2 children)
Of all the money we've paid in since the EU began dictating national law outside the bounds of what could reasonably be considered international trade. Should only take a week to deduct the rebate and the amount inwardly invested in the UK, the rest we'll take as cash the following Monday.
If the EU feel this is unfair they can invoice Mr Brown directly. A CEO doesn't grant the janitor ability to sign away a company and the people are the CEO and Mr Brown the janitor!
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 26 2018, @03:49AM (1 child)
If you were unhappy with terms for the previous 39 years, why did you continue to pay in? Every year you paid in was implicit acceptance of the terms of the prior year.
Case dismissed.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 26 2018, @12:58PM
It took almost a decade to get a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, there was no democratic mandate. Full refund, case closed.
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by fakefuck39 on Saturday May 26 2018, @03:39AM (2 children)
A full refund of cash that has been paid to other EU countries by the UK. The EU has things shared by every member. The EU also takes billions of dollars from countries that have it, such as France/Germany/UK and gives them to shitholes like Greece and Romania and Poland - free money. If you don't know this, you are 14 and belong on Reddit. This is a site for adults.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 26 2018, @05:46AM (1 child)
> If you don't know this, you are 14 and belong on Reddit. This is a site for adults.
Yes. Only a *real* adult would have a handle like "fakefuck39". That doesn't sound like a 14 year old at all.
(Score: 0) by fakefuck39 on Saturday May 26 2018, @08:06PM
Yes, real adults who are close to 40 years look at user handles on some random website as something that defines them and is important - definitely not some random thing they just type in when prompted to create a logon. I am indeed 14. The "fake" part of "fakefuck39" is social commentary on the hypocrisy of the ruling class and all the people working 9-5 in big offices and feeding the machine. The "fuck" part is showing those hypocrites the finger. 39 has nothing to do with age. 3 in Hangul is "sam" - and "sam" in Russian means "myself" - which says I am also fake and fuck my own hypocrisy that I don't notice 3. 9 in English is "nine" - which sounds like the German "nein" for "no", and that's just saying "no" to the Nazis, because I'm a jew.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 26 2018, @01:58AM (10 children)
> Also the UK populace never signed up to surrender their sovereignty to a federal superstate, they voted for a trade block.
You keep claiming this despite being unable to produce a single TV report, politcal speech or newspaper report from the 1970s supportng the claim.
why? It doesn't become true by constant repetition.
The real world doesn't care about your fantasies.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 26 2018, @02:06AM (5 children)
Are you mentally ill? The 1975 vote was on membership of the EC, a trade block. [wikipedia.org] The local psychiatric ward may be amenable to your retardation, I am not!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 26 2018, @02:26AM (3 children)
Your lack of understandng of wrtten engilsh indicates a poor level of educaton.
The vote was on EEC membershp. Nowhere was a trade block mentioned.
that fantasy only turned up much later.
As you struggle so much with basic english (sorry if you normaly speak something else) I'll make it easy for you.
Just point to a newpaper article or TV report from the time which talks about the EEC being only a trading block.
No one has been able to do this so far. These reports ony exist in the constantly repeated fantasies. (alongside the banana bending stories)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 26 2018, @06:49AM
Excuse me! THAT is exactly what the EEC was, a trade block and nothing else
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Saturday May 26 2018, @06:51AM (1 child)
I'm afraid it is your lack of understanding that is showing. There was no EEC (European Economic Community) at the time the UK joined. It was called the "United Kingdom European Communities membership referendum, 1975" [wikipedia.org].
The expansion into federalism occurred later and was never put to a vote. The UK refused to join the Economic Community and has kept its own currency rather that shift to the euro which is controlled mainly by France and Germany. Some of the reasons that the UK voted to leave the EU (European Union) - albeit narrowly - are that we could no longer kick convicted foreign terrorists out of the UK because the European Court decided that such action wasn't fair, and other EU laws were created that ran counter to the UK's own laws. None of this was ever put to the vote of the UK population. The European Communities has morphed into an organisation that has considerably more influence than the original trade block that it started out as and was never envisaged at the time of the referendum to join. A further frustration was watching UK money being paid to bail out other countries that could not get their own house in order and who fail at any attempt at fiscal management.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 26 2018, @05:05PM
> we could no longer kick convicted foreign terrorists out of the UK because the European Court decided that such action wasn't fair, and other EU laws were created that ran counter to the UK's own laws.
It is like laying whack-a-mole.
As has repeately been pointed out, that decision by the court of Human Rights not by the EEC court. Why do you continue to confuse the two? can't you prove your case without resortng to fantasies?
> None of this was ever put to the vote of the UK population.
Except by the UK parliment containing MPs voted for by the UK populaton.
Your fantasy is really easy to point out this time. Or can you point to any evidence that the UK MPs weren't voted in by the UK electorate.
> The European Communities has morphed into an organisation that has considerably more influence than the original trade block that it started out as and was never envisaged at the time of the referendum to join
Again, please pont to a singe instance of such a claim being made at the time of the original referendum. No-one has ever been able to do that. Put up or shut up.
> A further frustration was watching UK money being paid to bail out other countries that could not get their own house in order and who fail at any attempt at fiscal management.
You are talkng about the UK which was being bailed out by the IMF and was an economic basket case, unable to produce anything anyone wanted to buy. The UK which had to apply to join the EEC to find someone to trade with?
Perhaps you have confused the film and comic book UK with that of the UK in the real world?
(Score: 2) by UncleSlacky on Saturday May 26 2018, @02:49PM
The very first item on this list of the EEC's aims from the government's own leaflet in 1975 is "to bring together the people of Europe":
https://digital.library.lse.ac.uk/objects/lse:div796mek/view/largepage [lse.ac.uk]
You can't say you weren't told.
(Score: 2) by deimtee on Saturday May 26 2018, @02:59AM (3 children)
Bolding added.
The media, advertising industry, popular opinion, and just simply peoples' general behavior, would tend to indicate that you are wrong. Constant repetition does make it true.
If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 26 2018, @03:57AM (1 child)
Also, someone should cold-call 1000 Brexit voters and see if any of them spontaneously utter the words "EC" or "trading block". Versus the number who mention "NHS" and "jobs". Britain is going to get a net gain of jobs back in the form of seasonal strawberry picking at the expense of its professional workforce. The NHS line was a sad joke by (conservative) Boris Johnson, who will gut it and privatize in favor of US style insurance = higher price, lower outcomes.
(Score: 2) by fritsd on Saturday May 26 2018, @01:11PM
In fact, they've got a Tory minister of Health, Jeremy Hunt, who wrote a book about "how to dismantle the NHS".
(1) underfund in the NHS for many years
(2) "oh dear what is this? our NHS has declined so much we might as well put the critter out of its misery and organize something new alongside neoliberal economic lines"
(3) profit.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 27 2018, @04:14PM
Thank God. For a minute there I thought it was my eyes.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by khallow on Saturday May 26 2018, @04:48AM (10 children)
They didn't walk out of the ESA which is a separate organization from the EU. The EU already shared Galileo technology with non-EU members like Switzerland [galileognss.eu], Ukraine [upi.com], and Israel [timesofisrael.com]. Only one of those countries is even a member of the ESA.
I doubt any of those countries contributed as much as the UK did.
I don't know and don't care who really is at fault here. But the narrative that the EU has to completely cut off the UK from a lot of stuff (including a number of things that they don't cut off other non-EU countries from) because of Brexit is just a rather transparent rationalization for bullying. Sure, that bullying just might work either to keep the UK in the EU or to keep other countries from leaving, but it's a dubious, hypocritical thing to come out of a union which was supposed to be voluntary.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 26 2018, @06:36AM (2 children)
> I don't know and don't care who really is at fault here. But the narrative that the EU has to completely cut off the UK from a lot of stuff (including a number of things that they don't cut off other non-EU countries from) because of Brexit is just a rather transparent rationalization for bullying.
Exactly. The Brexiteers claim the EU is bullying the UK by excludng the UK from the core Galileo functons only available to EU members. The UK is getting demoted to an associate member, like Israel, Canada and other non-EU members involved in galileo. That the UK is being treated as a non-EU country seems to be a complete surprise to brexiteers.
They have sugested using Intelectual Property legislaton to stop the EU using UK IP used in galileo, convenitenly forgetting that the court to rule on IP differences between countries has been rejected as infringng on UK sovereignty by the same brexiteers.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday May 26 2018, @11:37AM
Is that what is going on? Looks to me like the Brexiteers are claiming something different [ft.com]:
That would be along the lines of my first post on this.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday May 26 2018, @11:41AM
Is that what is going on? Looks to me like the Brexiteers are claiming something different [ft.com]:
That would be along the lines of my first post on this.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Saturday May 26 2018, @09:10AM (5 children)
(Explanation for the observers of this sub-thread - the Galileo logo's almost entirely a tilted version of the EU logo.)
[* only in the way that Romneycare's an Obama thing, the pre-EU EC first proposed it, but it didn't fly.]
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday May 26 2018, @11:38AM (4 children)
Again, it's an ESA project with support by a number of non-EU countries. So no, I'm not buying it.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Sunday May 27 2018, @10:59AM (3 children)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday May 28 2018, @12:09AM (2 children)
Because I "kinda know" that is irrelevant. If the EU wanted it to be an EU-only effort, then they shouldn't have done it through the ESA or be so inclusive with non-EU (and even non-ESA) members.
Like a lot of political conflict games, the EU could have chosen ways that didn't hurt the UK and were low public profile. But that might not discourage other countries from leaving the EU. Here, the UK has proven itself to be a trustworthy ally that funded a fair portion of the development of the Galileo system. They don't deserve to be treated like crap just because of a political conflict.
But they are. This illustrates the nasty side of the EU, namely, that it's a roach motel (that is, the lethal trap for roaches that baits and kills them) that one can readily enter, but is very hard to leave.
br. And let us keep in mind that overall this whole conflict happened because of the EU's rather dumb, promiscuous stance towards immigration (particularly from outside the EU) that ignored the wishes of a large portion of the EU population. Where is the democracy in that?
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday May 28 2018, @11:34AM (1 child)
They didn't, so they didn't. None of which changes the fact that the EU acted as the EU, and the UK's involvement was as part of the EU. If they EU change that, then they need to renegotiate their position.
Your clue-resistance is approaching legendary levels.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday May 28 2018, @01:24PM
Well, you happen to be wrong here. So what's the point of your posting?
Irrelevant since the ESA was the agency actually doing Galileo.
(Score: 2) by crafoo on Saturday May 26 2018, @11:42AM
I really hope that the UK can start working to reverse some of the damage that the EU did to their country. A full house cleaning is certainly in order.
(Score: 1, Troll) by janrinok on Saturday May 26 2018, @06:35AM (1 child)
I understand your point, but there has already been an agreement that the UK could continue to take part in the project. It is a German-led initiative that is now trying to renege on that agreement, in order to improve opportunities for their own tech industry. France, Spain and several others have stated that they do not agree with the German position, especially as an agreement has already been reached.
(Score: 1) by loonycyborg on Saturday May 26 2018, @07:47AM
Maybe if they don't agree with this they should vote with their feet and leave the Fourth Reich? Cause Germany definitely shouldn't be in position to make such decisions unilaterally if it's European Union.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 26 2018, @05:27AM
Shouldn't be a too complex concept.