President Trump meets Kim Jong Un
President Trump and North Korea's Kim Jong Un will meet in just a few hours. Here's what to watch for and when, according to the White House schedule.
- 8 p.m. ET (June 11) / 8 a.m. Singapore (June 12): President Trump departs Shangri-La Hotel en route to Capella Singapore, where the two leaders will meet.
- 8:20 p.m. ET (June 11) / 8:20 a.m. Singapore (June 12): Trump arrives at Capella Singapore.
- 9 p.m. ET (June 11) / 9 a.m. Singapore (June 12): President Trump and Kim Jong Un greet each other. This is the big moment. Cameras will be there to capture their expected handshake.
- 9:15 p.m. ET (June 11) / 9:15 a.m. Singapore (June 12): President Trump and Kim Jong Un participate in a one-on-one bilateral meeting.
- 10 p.m. ET (June 11) / 10 a.m. Singapore (June 12): President Trump and Kim Jong Un participate in an expanded bilateral meeting.
- 11:30 p.m. ET (June 11) / 11:30 a.m. Singapore (June 12): President Trump and Kim Jong Un have a working lunch.
- 4 a.m. ET (June 12) / 4 p.m. Singapore: President Trump is expected to speak with reporters.
- 6:30 a.m. ET / 6:30 p.m. Singapore: President Trump departs Capella Singapore for Paya Lebar Air Base Singapore.
- 7 a.m. ET / 7 p.m. Singapore: Trump departs Paya Lebar Air Base, Singapore, en route to Andersen Air Force Base, Guam. From there, he will travel on to the United States.
Kim Jong Un tours Singapore, takes selfie ahead of summit
Trump Kim: US says N Korea negotiations making quick progress
For All His Deals, Trump Has Never Faced an Adversary Like Kim Jong-un
Kim-Trump summit rife with opportunity for US
Related Stories
Trump to Hold Second Summit With Kim Jong Un in February, U.S. Says
U.S. President Donald Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un will meet near the end of February for a second summit, despite evidence North Korea is advancing its nuclear weapons program.
The White House announced the summit and timing after Trump met Friday with Kim Yong Chol, a top aide to the North Korean leader and a former spy chief.
Trump's decision to go ahead with another in-person meeting -- further elevating Kim's global profile -- underscores the president's confidence that his personal involvement and negotiating skills can change the behavior of recalcitrant regimes in ways that traditional leverage and diplomacy, past U.S. leaders and his own emissaries could not.
Previously: President Trump Tweets about Nuclear Talks with North Korea
President Trump Set to Meet Kim Jong-un at 9 PM EDT (01:00 UTC, 9 AM Singapore)
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @12:17AM (7 children)
The left start actively start a pro-nuclearization movement to spite Trump.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Ethanol-fueled on Tuesday June 12 2018, @12:21AM
The Jews will try to shoot one or both of Kim and Trump down.
So, McDonalds and fish-head stew?
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @12:43AM
Your active prediction stammeringly predict something
(Score: 5, Insightful) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday June 12 2018, @01:50AM (3 children)
Are we still pretending US politics has a left wing?
(Score: 2, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @03:42AM (2 children)
He is the first president to have supported LGBT stuff before getting elected, and he supported it before his opponent did.
He has said that he will probably sign legislation to legalize pot.
He isn't much of a churchgoer and couldn't name a Bible verse.
He hasn't started a war. He doesn't even bomb places as much as Obama.
He had a lame excuse for avoiding the draft.
He dated a black woman.
He married an immigrant.
He had a cameo in a softcore porno.
He is from New York City.
He raised a daughter who became a Jew.
...
Well, he looks like a leftist to me. To the right we have Ben Carson and Rick Perry. The other party is socialist, like Hitler, which is unamerican so we can just dismiss them.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @03:55PM
And would you look at that, someone gave you a -1 "Troll" because how dare you have an opinion that differs from the narrative! Good job proving his point guys.
Don't worry about that fellow AC, you are triggering their cognitive Dissonance. Scott Adams would be proud. I'm not American, but I agree with what you wrote.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @06:13PM
Yup def troll, yet another person believing Trump's bullshit. He isn't a leftist or a righty, Trump is a just a greedy con artist.
I'll take the inverse from this, so all conservatives are racist jew hating bible thumpers? Don't I see that characterization reviled all the time around here?
You're confused AC and apparently you are confusing other iTards.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday June 12 2018, @05:59PM
The left start actively start a pro-nuclearization movement to spite Trump.
We don't need to. Iran's taking care of that one for us.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @12:19AM (20 children)
Find the one where he says it won't happen. Maybe he's right... still got 45 minutes!
People like him need to hate because their own sense of righteousness is all wrapped up in being anti-Trump. They can't admit that he is doing wonderful things constantly. Meanwhile, their own heroes are corrupt as fuck, hellbent on destroying our nation for their own personal gain.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by edIII on Tuesday June 12 2018, @01:01AM (15 children)
LOL. Yeah, like there are no ethically based objections to Trump! He's such a fine gentleman right! LOL
Trump is NOT doing wonderful things constantly. Fucking hardly doing much of anything except golfing and getting the taxpayers to spend lavish amounts at his businesses and properties. You want Trump to get credit where credit is due? Well there ain't fucking much. Not only that, he continually flip flops in such a fashion, that you know that NONE of his positions are well thought out. It's all political to see what he can get. The whole guns and school shootings showed that. All over the map, until the money showed up (NRA) and they explained it to him. He promised legislation, then withdrew it, then promised it, etc.
I can give him props for anything not engaging in the globalist agenda. He fought the TPP, good job. He's negotiating more for US workers in trade, possibly good job. He's going about it like a complete fucking moron, but is at least fighting them. THAT's IT. Whatever good things is this asshole doing again? I mean other than the dog whistle bullshit to make the white nationalists and other assholes feel like their winning? I'm supposed to celebrate the wonderful things he does constantly, when he acts like a fucking toddler? When stopping men rightfully protesting police brutality, with the disingenuous bullshit that it's about national patriotism? Fucking no. That's not what is fucking important right now, but to the Toddler in Chief, that's numero uno on his short list. Fucking idiot.
He's famously refused to do ANY preparations for this meeting, saying that he will "wing it". That's just plain dumb stupid arrogance. It's NOT a wonderful thing that we have a belligerent toddler dealing with a true dictator with nuclear ambitions.
No. I won't give Trump any credit here, because all he has done is threaten North Korea and engage in childish middle school behavior with "My button is bigger". Yet, you Trump fanatics equate this with Reagan effectively winning the Cold War. Trump is no Reagan, not by a long shot. That was a real dealmaking President. Please. Just what wonderful things has Trump done lately again? Hmmmm?
If anything positive happens with North Korea, I will be giving Kimmie the credit for it. Why? He's doing more right now than just leveling insults and threats. This has been the most positive interaction between North Korea and South Korea since the fucking war. To say that it is all possible, simply because of the belligerence of one orange asshole in America, is just plain ignorant.
Two things have happened recently:
1) The suspected complete loss of the North Korean nuclear testing site, further complicated by extreme sanctions, budget problems, and parts of their population starving.
2) Donnie yelled a lot on Twitter and threatened them.
Yeah, #2 really isn't all that threatening given 50+ years of the same shit going back forth, with North Korea basically sounding like Trump. The credit that Trump gets? Being in the right place and right time in history to try and take credit for North Korea and South Korea finally working out their problems.
Saying Trump had anything constructively to do with peace in Korea, is about the same as giving credit to Biff Tannon for the invention of time travel. After all, he was the asshole motivating everyone right?
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @03:08AM (5 children)
It's sad when reality itself no longer reaches the poor people afflicted with TDR. I wish you luck in getting better, but not in achieving power over others.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday June 12 2018, @06:02AM (4 children)
That's the defining symptom of all the "derangement syndromes" in the first place. If you have TDS or any of the other ones, of course reality isn't reaching you. As to the story, I have really low expectations both based on past North Korean and Chinese behavior and because it's Trump.
I'll believe it when I see it, maybe. Sure, there's potential for radical improvement in the region, but that's always been theoretically possible for the past 65 years. Didn't happen then.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Tuesday June 12 2018, @07:11AM (3 children)
Still pining for Hillary? Can you even vaguely imagine this happening on her watch?
Trump's shown yo what theoretical looks like. In spite of all the ankle biters with nothing to offer.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @07:40AM
Nobody's pining for Hillary. We're reminding you that North Korea is not trustworthy whatsoever and not to get your hopes up.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @04:40PM (1 child)
"Still pining for Hillary? Can you even vaguely imagine this happening on her watch?"
With or without every republican demanding her head for treason for even suggesting peace talks with North Korea?
(You know, the kind of things they were doing whenever this came up under Obama's watch. It's kinda hilarious how republicans will view any particular action depending ENTIRELY on whether or not it's a republican or a democrat suggesting it.)
(Score: 1) by schusselig on Tuesday June 12 2018, @08:34PM
ftfy
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @03:53AM
The real prep was that meeting between Chairman Xi and President Trump at Mar-a-lago. Trump convinced Xi that China should buy American coal instead of North Korean coal, among other things.
That right there is the dealmaking. Trump got Xi to act against North Korea. Trump deserves lots of credit for making Xi follow orders.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday June 12 2018, @02:47PM (1 child)
You say that like it's nothing. For the American middle class, or what remains of it, it's the entire game. We know Hillary would have instantly reversed her campaign promise on the matter and signed the TPP, a trade pact that was not even shown to members of Congress who were supposed to vote on it. That right there is so outrageous, so beyond the pale, that Obama, who set up that travesty, should be hanged for it.
As far as I'm concerned, Trump bought himself a lot of latitude for killing the TPP. Every other silly thing he tweets or postures on does not matter.
I don't want to burst your bubble, but all presidents "wing it." Even the ones you think are intelligent. Why? Because they have no time or bandwidth to do anything but wing it. Everyone on earth wants him to do something for them. So after he's done with photo ops and having sit-downs with kids from the Make a Wish Foundation, there is no time to read a thousand page document painfully composed by failed Ivy League English Lit. majors at State.
Really? Kim has fed his political enemies to packs of starving dogs as a form of capital punishment. That's who you're siding with? South Korea just impeached their president, jailed her, and jailed the head of Samsung for an incredibly massive corruption scandal. That's the far-sighted regime in the South you credit?
I get that you hate Trump, but come on.
He did more than that. He sent several carrier battlegroups to surround the Korean peninsula and had the bombers do test runs from Guam. He got sanctions tightened to the maximum. He spanked and shamed China for enabling Kim. It's called brinksmanship, and is a tactic of statecraft that is as old as the hills.
When Teddy Roosevelt did that, it resulted in Panama gaining independence from Colombia and allowing the Panama Canal to be built and controlled by the US. That in turn put the US in the very solid geo-strategic position it enjoyed when WWII rolled around a couple decades later. And, it's something all school kids in America read about now as an example of how you build national strength.
But, I get it, you hate Trump so none of that matters.
It's not my preference. I like to be clear, and appreciate when people are clear and thoughtful with me. But that does not mean keeping your negotiating partners off-balance is an illegitimate tactic. It does not necessarily mean that Trump does not know what he is doing. Maybe he doesn't, and maybe he does. But we won't know until we've had time to watch the outcomes.
It is an article of faith among historians that you need at least 20 years' perspective to judge any leader's actions fairly, so why should that be true for every other leader in history, but not for Trump? Why rush to judgement in his case, but not in any other?
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday June 12 2018, @04:16PM
I agree with a lot of what you wrote, except:
Phoenix666 wants to hang a black man!
I'm not faulting him 100% for this. Most of his political enemies are elites. When Kim Jong-il died, it was assumed that Jong-un's elders would run things. He may have done what he had to do in order to survive. In fact, his survival may have depended on him completely filling the power vacuum left by his father, and remaining top dog today. The cruel method of execution can be chalked up to scaring other potential threats within the military elites.
That's not to say that Jong-un is completely rational and justified. He is still likely cruel and paranoid, as we can see from him VXing his brother, who was far from a genuine political threat (maybe some intelligence service somewhere disagrees). He is still oppressing his people. But he may be somewhat more likely to politically reform North Korea down the line if he is guaranteed a lifeline (e.g. exile to Switzerland with a plane full of cash). The best hope for this diplomatic game is that Kim Jong-un isn't exactly like his father and grandfather. He can choose to go in a different direction.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday June 12 2018, @03:04PM (1 child)
Sorry to double-respond to your post, but this was another point of yours that bears responding to. White nationalism is characterized, among other things, by anti-semitism. But I don't know that that charge really sticks to Trump. After all, his daughter converted to Judaism and his son-in-law has had a prominent role in his administration.
Further, Trump just did the most pro-Israel thing none of his predecessors dared, not even Jimmy Carter, which was to acknowledge Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Personally, I think it was a horrible move but Jews love it because Israel ueber alles.
Lastly, Trump is ripping up the agreement with Iran to curb their nuclear development, which always was the cherished and central priority of Israeli national defense (that is, Israel opposed the Iran deal because they believed Iran would cheat).
So, it's a weird thing to accuse a guy of being a white nationalist who has given Jews 1000% of their policy priorities.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by fritsd on Tuesday June 12 2018, @05:32PM
I believe that Avigdor Lieberman can be described as some kind of a "white nationalist", but I'd never call him an anti-semite, either.
So your statement depends on the premise "white nationalists are anti-semites", which I think is not always true, therefore "Trump is not a white nationalist because Trump is not an anti-semite" doesn't follow from it.
Even if he IS not an anti-semite (I agree, if your daughter becomes a jew and you keep good relations then you're not an anti-semite).
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday June 12 2018, @04:09PM (3 children)
Three things, actually. Someone recently pointed out that there was an impeachment in S. Korea. Politics in S. Korea changed as a result. I don't understand S. Korean politics, I know Jack about who is who. But, it's possible that progress toward a peaceful solution was blocked by S. Korea all along. Food for thought.
And, one more thing. You might want to wipe the foam from your mouth and chin, so that people don't think you're just another rabid Trump hater.
(Score: 2) by edIII on Tuesday June 12 2018, @08:40PM (1 child)
Your point about South Korea is noted. Somebody else pointed out China's influence.
I was just irked by the idiot lumping all dissent and negative comments against Trump in one irrational anti-Trump group. Then to top it off, started sounding like a rabid Trumpanzee, with, "Dear Leader can do no wrong. It's not wrong if Dear Leader does it.". That bullshit about doing wonderful things constantly. Uh, no. That just isn't true, and I certainly don't consider getting obsessed with Twitter and black athletes kneeling during the anthem to be worthy of a president, and evidence of a distraction from real world problems. His immaturity is a problem, and people from all sides have made comments about that in Washington. If we were to be honest.
He's mostly bad at the moment with his bullshit, but has done some sparingly good things mostly related to trade. The rest of it, like the tax bill, is up for debate. If I take away the partisan stuff, what's left is an orange asshole embarrassing us in front of the world with his belligerent behavior. If he was a true deal maker, and master businessman, he would be more like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet than Andrew Dice Clay.
I understand from the other side (that being a Trump supporter) that Trump does not look apoplectic as he does, especially when he is accomplishing at least part of the Republican agenda. Still, there has been a lot of questionable bullshit, some outright lies. Did you really expect him to be this petulant once taking office? He's a sore winner that can't get over crowd size for fuck's sake. It's outright ego to make Mexico pay for the wall, especially when it's so outlandish that he thinks the US has that kind of unilateral power with another nation. If the US did enough bullshit, we could also be removed from the G-7.
He's done some positive things, some things we expect of a US president anyways, but he is not as wonderful as described. When it comes to this Korea situation, I'll give credit where credit is due. We'll see what his contributions are beyond yelling on Twitter.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday June 13 2018, @01:16AM
Actually - I didn't expect it, but it doesn't surprise me.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @11:10PM
Amazing!!! Something else Runaway1954 does not know! Will the shocking revelations ever cease? Doesn't stop him from posting, however. Got to keep those rubles rolling in.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday June 12 2018, @05:57PM
find that DeathMonkey comment for me ... Find the one where he says it won't happen.
Nope, wasn't me, you must be thinking about Trump: "Therefore, please let this letter serve to represent that the Singapore summit, for the good of both parties, but to the detriment of the world, will not take place." -- Donald Trump
(Score: 2) by pvanhoof on Tuesday June 12 2018, @06:03PM (2 children)
As a European who´s in a multinational team (Germans, Britons (of the kind who are not pro-Brexit), Dutch and Belgian) I can tell you that the clown show that Trump did last G7 did not come over well.
I think it´s safe to say that the US has actually lost its allies in the EU last week. People are really not amused over here.
Just saying.
But if you want to stay believing that this Trump clown isn´t harming the United States, then go right ahead.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Sulla on Tuesday June 12 2018, @06:42PM (1 child)
Then fuck Europe. If they tariff us they can't claim we are threatening our friendship by not tariffing in return. If they were friends we would have no tariffs. I think Trump and his rhetoric was too far but europe needs to stop acting like an angel.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 1) by Sulla on Wednesday June 13 2018, @12:05AM
- Europe
And when you complain about it they say you are the guilty one
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 2, Insightful) by bmimatt on Tuesday June 12 2018, @12:24AM (9 children)
I'd pay "cash money" to be a fly on the wall at these meetings (with a translator).
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday June 12 2018, @12:28AM (5 children)
Kim Jong Un's high school teacher says the North Korean leader probably knows English and just pretends not to [businessinsider.com]
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by legont on Tuesday June 12 2018, @12:47AM (3 children)
It was a public school so he likely speaks French and German; probably English and possibly Italian.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by mendax on Tuesday June 12 2018, @01:23AM (2 children)
It is said that the Un-leader speaks German and knows some English but is not fluent.
It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @01:13PM
Neither one is fluent in English.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @07:58PM
Given this picture:
https://www.newsmax.com/thewire/dennis-rodman-secret-kim-jong-un-daughter/2013/03/21/id/495743/ [newsmax.com]
It seems that Rodman and Un can speak just fine with each other. I don't know what languages Rodman speaks, it may not be English only, but I would guess it was English only (he is American).
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Wednesday June 13 2018, @03:53AM
Yeah, if you notice where Kim nods when Trump is speaking, it's evident Kim has at least some English. Maybe not a lot, but enough to understand what's being said there.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @12:42AM
It'll be a bunch of brown-nosing by Trump followed by some miniscule "progress" that gets heralded as a breakthrough only possible by Trump ad nauseum. Followed by N Korea not doing it but by then no-one who votes Trump gives a shit. We'll be too busy provoking $safe_target in order to generate front page noise... sorry, news. N Korea had its 15 minutes.
Nuclear tests probably won't resume anyway (they already did their 6 tests which puts them in the nuclear club) so it's long term stalemate.
The only hope is more resignations from Trump's team which is composed of "Libya model" types ready to right the world with military options.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @04:56AM
with all the other bugs in there, were would you find the space to land?
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @03:32PM
That reminds me of a story I've long ago read on the net, about a demonstration of the newest espionage technology against the Soviets. It was a fly equipped with espionage technology, because a fly would not raise any suspicion. In the beginning, it seemed to work perfectly.
So be careful what you wish for. ;-)
(Score: 5, Interesting) by edIII on Tuesday June 12 2018, @12:36AM (42 children)
We'll see what happens. I personally think that the NK nuclear program literally collapsed in on itself, and there might sill be some fallout from that locally. With the site collapse, severe economic sanctions stifling military budgets, and an insane bombastic leader of a foreign country threatening you, I think it made sense to North Korea to finally change tack. Considering that the fiery Orange Anus is actually hated more than their own dictator, North Korea has everything to gain by switching to "normal" behavior. Why continue to double down on a military pursuit, when it just spectacularly failed and you can get major negotiating points by acting like stopping was your own idea?
Let's face it. That whole myth of Trump being the deal maker of all time is ridiculously self-aggrandizing behavior with no relation to reality. So far, he hasn't been a dealmaker for shit. No wall, can't deal with his own party, only knows how to threaten, etc. There really is no excuse for his inability to execute any diplomacy, unite people, etc. HE will be talking to a Swiss educated 30-something, that apparently did as well in school as Trump.
No idea how this will turn out, but I'm betting that Kimmie gets the best of him.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 4, Funny) by SomeGuy on Tuesday June 12 2018, @12:44AM
The whole time he will be sitting there playing with his Tweeter. :P
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @12:49AM (1 child)
Kimmie already won.
Look at Gadaffi, Saddam Hussain, former leaders of Arab spring states.
Then look at Kim Jong Un, al Bashir and to some extent Putin. If you don't fight us like ALL HELL, then we literally puts a pole in your ass.
Message sent loud and clear.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @08:49AM
I really can't understand why you need to punish Poland's citizens.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Ethanol-fueled on Tuesday June 12 2018, @12:55AM (16 children)
Kim Ching-Chong is in a worse position than Trump. Trumps numerous domestic enemies know they can't take him out like the impending coup against the Kim Ching-Chong will.
This is why functioning countries need alternative outlets like Breitbart. Because even if Breitbart was run deliberately by fifth-columnists, at least they can operate in the open. North-Korean media cannot dissent without being discovered and disappeared. Sure, there are a lot of folks trying to take Trump out, but Trump is a master troll. If he has to, he will use Twitter to constantly remind everybody of those things he can't go into in greater detail, such as the Debbie Wasserman-Schultz scandal with the Awan brothers. He may or may not know the whole story, but he can let others guess what is going on, and pour gasoline on the fire of the common American's distrust of Emperor Baraq Hussein Soetoro and even the Republican chickenhawks who preceeded him.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by c0lo on Tuesday June 12 2018, @01:03AM (15 children)
Disregard China at your own peril.
Bashar stayed on with Putin support (Russia need those naval bases on Mediterranean Sea).
Kim will stay on as long as Xi see him useful - which may be quite a long time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Ethanol-fueled on Tuesday June 12 2018, @01:24AM (4 children)
Disagreed. China's got their own designs, especially in the financial opportunities which come with Westernizing. I'm sure they see Kim as both a liability and opportunity just as much as America sees it as the same way.
Trump is not Hillary. He probably sees North Korea as an opportunity to open a bitchin' golf resort for his own people rather than the military industrial complex which is wasting taxpayer dollars, and maybe North Korea wants some nice tourist dollars in exchange for not executing tourists.
Besides, we all know the Kim family secretly admires American culture. They love the bad haircuts that our grade-school students had 30 years ago, and Kim I'm sure also loves McDonald's and watches Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles I and II on a regular basis. This is low-hanging fruit for Trump to pull. The question is whether or not Trump himself will ruin it with his belligerence, or whether or not warmongers like Bolton will ruin it with, erm, warmonger stuff.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday June 12 2018, @01:55AM (2 children)
Financial opportunities which value nothing in the relation with USA if US starts a tariff war - in this relation, those are more like liabilities.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday June 12 2018, @06:05AM (1 child)
Not much of a tariff war at present. We'll see if it gets past the bluster stage.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday June 12 2018, @06:32AM
Yeap, many ifs on the way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @02:03PM
Even if China hates Kim's guts they do not lose by allowing a win for Trump. Russia already has this figured out: The more incompetent our government is, the better off it is for them. China most likely did also.
If things fall apart China wins. If a deal is cut China wins.
China and Russia are long term strategic thinkers up against someone who thinks it is well considered to just "wing it." Both are already structured for win-win with no options that don't favor each of them separately.
(Score: 3, Informative) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday June 12 2018, @01:55AM (1 child)
There's not much point engaging EF, he doesn't understand and won't accept any other points of view.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday June 12 2018, @02:00AM
Rarely, granted, but now and then he does take his arguments seriously and, accepting them or not, does consider a other point of views.
Besides, he's not the only one that read those comments.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday June 12 2018, @03:45PM (7 children)
In one of the 'There will be war' books, there is a short take, called 'Make the Tigers Fight'. It points out that the Soviet instigated the war in Korea, promising support to North Korea. At about the same time, the Soviet promised support to the Chinese communists. At later points, the Soviet promised support to Ho Chi Minh, and also had something to do with stirring up the Khmer Rouge.
You are perfectly right, "Disregard China at your own peril." But, Russia has experience at playing China, and the rest of Asia, like an old worn fiddle.
I rather doubt that Russia would have Kim disposed of - but it's a possibility. More likely, Russia probably still considers Kimmie to be a useful tool.
(Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Tuesday June 12 2018, @04:14PM (6 children)
Not discounting Russia, but since then China had taken the lead, at least in Asia.
Unlike the former USSR, China knows how to wait, and actively and "glove-handed" while at it.
But once is set in position it's nigh to impossible to move them.
Look at the South China Sea - US bussied itself with Iraq, then Afghanistan, then Libya, the Syria and haven't been paying enough attention to those artificial islands. Ooopsie!
Same goes on with Africa [pri.org], letting aside the Obock base:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @05:31PM (5 children)
Why should people in the US care about the south china sea and africa? Its not their problem. Your entire premise seems to be that the US military should be active all around the world. Why?
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday June 12 2018, @11:30PM (4 children)
The US military is actively [voanews.com] challenging [voanews.com] the Chinese in South China Sea.
And US dreamed of pushing back [defenseone.com] the presence of the Chinese base in Obock.
Maybe you have to have a word with them, tell them they shouldn't.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1) by Sulla on Wednesday June 13 2018, @12:09AM (3 children)
Many people did and the answer was Trump. Not since Carter has anyone in the executive proposed withdrawing from South Korea.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 2, Informative) by Sulla on Wednesday June 13 2018, @12:11AM (2 children)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/josh-rogin/wp/2018/06/07/trump-still-holds-jimmy-carters-view-on-withdrawing-u-s-troops-from-south-korea/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ff429869d59d [washingtonpost.com]
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 13 2018, @12:26AM (1 child)
It really looks like he might be rolling back the US MIC, starting at the very beginning... Its difficult to actually get excited after so many letdowns (basically my entire life) but wow.
(Score: 1) by Sulla on Wednesday June 13 2018, @12:31AM
I doubt anything will come of it but it is the most progress that we have seen in several decades. The fact that we are even talking about it is amazing. That key republicans and democrats are mad about the possibility makes me like the idea more.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 4, Interesting) by c0lo on Tuesday June 12 2018, @12:59AM (5 children)
Missing from your considerations: China's influence. NK does not play now any game that Chairman Xi doesn't support.
And Chairman Xi can't afford to let China's influence in the game now that Kim has such a promising hand. Of course, plausible deniability will be present.
In other news (which may have been obscured by the Trump/Kim noise recently): China/Russia nuclear $3B cooperation + $1B industrial investment fund [scmp.com]
Translation for the last quoted phrase: if US impose economic sanction on anyone dealing with Iran, China and Russia may very well decide to just ignore them.
With Trump recently annoying US allies with trade tariff wars [bbc.com], it may end of US picturing itself in a corner in regards with international influence.
Interesting times, indeed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @01:10AM (4 children)
Id guess whats goin on is pretty straightforward :
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/11/world/asia/trump-china-trade-north-korea.html [nytimes.com]
Not sure why people feel the need to come up with elaborate scenarios.
(Score: 4, Informative) by c0lo on Tuesday June 12 2018, @01:52AM (3 children)
In spite of simpleton minds, the way the world works is not that simple.
Someone said it better before: "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
I suppose he may try to apply simple solutions.
Maybe he personally will learn something, maybe he won't; in any case, for good or bad, he'll drag the entire US into it.
(China is in the position to make the USA credit rating worthless [scmp.com] - yes, it will lose most of $3T USD-debt by dumping it on the market, that's about 1/7 or 1/5 of total US national debt. I suspect China may be willing to do so if US threatens economic sanctions of comparable values, especially if the other economies are involved on a tariff war with USA).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @05:11AM
No one is disregarding china, read the Trump quote again. They are central to this whole event.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday June 12 2018, @03:08PM (1 child)
China could dump US debt, and it is a tactic that that has been enshrined in their national defense policy. But they would only do that as a prelude to actual war. Doing it in any other fashion would certainly backfire. The US has the civil society to buffer the effects. China doesn't. The US would sink into economic chaos, but the Chinese Communist Party would be literally torn apart by a billion angry Chinese peasants.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday June 12 2018, @03:29PM
The more the time passes, the more I think that the United in USA is a misnomer. But then, what do I know? Maybe you like the liberty to work as a driver for Uber and pay more taxes than the 0.1%-ers.
You mean those Chinese peasants that never lived any better along the history? Me thinks you delude yourself - it will be the population of the cities that will try to torn the party, but I'm not that convinced they'll do so [soylentnews.org]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 5, Interesting) by digitalaudiorock on Tuesday June 12 2018, @01:05AM (13 children)
Here's my take on the situation:
I think Kim Jong Un has always had one single motivation when it comes to his military power...nuclear or otherwise. That's to simply create a situation where other nations including the U.S. simply don't dare try to pull a "Sadam Hussein" on him, as it could cause the total destruction of that part of the world. Staying in power...period...end of story. Unfortunately, even just based on their non-nuclear military, he arguably accomplished that a long time ago. This motivation tells me that the odds of him disarming to any great extent...let alone anything close to "de-nuclearlization" has a probability near zero. The only thing guaranteed in these talks is the PR boost it gives Kim Jong Un and the fact that it legitimizes one of the most repressive dictatorships in the world by putting him next to POTUS more or less as equals.
Frankly I think previous administrations of both parties understood this, and this administration...one that seems to thing it's too fucking smart to need a functional state department...doesn't.
I could be proven wrong but I doubt I will beyond some insane spin that will no doubt come out of this. I guess I'm part of those "haters and loosers" Trump's apparently ranting about tonight (just in case there were any doubts that we've put a high school child in charge of the free world).
(Score: 2, Insightful) by physicsmajor on Tuesday June 12 2018, @01:47AM (9 children)
If you think the State department has been functional as an actual agent of the United States of America, and not an influence peddling slush fund for the Clintons et al for the entirety of recent memory, I've got a few lovely bridges to sell you.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by digitalaudiorock on Tuesday June 12 2018, @02:43PM (6 children)
Everyone's jumping on the Trumpian logic that the State Department and all agencies are just useless "career bureaucrats" etc. No possible way are there actually people there who've spent their careers understanding foreign policy and it's implications etc. Who needs that when we have a fucking genius in office who doesn't need to prepare and "has a feeling" right? The end result is an administration that clearly hasn't a fucks clue what's going on the world and they prove it at every turn. But yea..."slush fund for the Clintons"...we'll go with that...whatever.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday June 12 2018, @03:21PM (2 children)
The State Department is populated by the children, relatives, and associates of the power-elite in the United States. They are there to grease the wheels of graft for self-same.
That's at the granular- to mid-level of diplomatic activity. The macro-level of diplomacy, policy direction and all that, are not determined by diplomats but by Congress and the President, who are themselves extensions of the power-elite.
And all of that is a complex of the self-interest and egos of the power-elite, which is only reified to "policy" and "strategy" for the purposes of public consumption, to continue to lull the meatbags who trudge off to their 9-to-5 jobs and stupidly pay taxes, like cattle, into thinking that somebody in the federal government knows what they're doing. They don't. None of them do.
That is reality, and it is vast and sobering.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @06:19PM (1 child)
More and more I'm thinking you've just been a long dormant sleeper account. Make a HUGE stink as a liberal then slowly walk back until you're a neo-con. You're most of the way to parroting Libertarian garbage already. Also it makes sense with your constant Clinton bashing during the election run-up.
Who knows what is really going on with so many fake personas running around the net these days, but your transition has been a weird one to observe.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @08:29PM
Ok, I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed this.
I'd like to think that Soylent is too small....
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday June 14 2018, @01:36AM (2 children)
US policy has failed to achieve it's goals for the past 60 years. Trump does something different, and suddenly we're closer to seeing the goal achieved. Trump hasn't achieved a touchdown, but he's got a first down and ten, ass opposed to 4th down and 40.
(Score: 2) by digitalaudiorock on Thursday June 14 2018, @11:53PM (1 child)
Holy crap. We most certainly are not. What's changed besides nothing? The way I see it here's where it stands:
1. There's no way Kim's ever coming close to de-nuclearization.
2. Even if he claimed he was it would almost surely be unverifiable. They've been building underground bunkers all over the country to hide all the weapons for decades.
3. His conventional weapons and massive army pose a huge threat anyway.
4. Even if none of the above were true, and the did de-nuclearize, and we opened up trade etc, all we've done is to let him use his nuclear weapons to strong arm us into giving one of the worlds worst dictators a complete pass on all of his human rights violations.
Even the BEST possible pipe dream case is huge looser for us and the world and a win win for Kim. Lucky for Trump his followers won't look past the photo-ops and will be calling for a fucking Nobel Piece prize.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday June 15 2018, @01:20AM
I seem to recall a recent past president, and a country called Cuba, in which we gave them everything they wanted, and demanded nothing in return.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday June 12 2018, @03:10PM
Thank you for point that out.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @03:11PM
So where are those bridges? Going to build some?
As a "physicsmajor" it's rather ironic how you can jump to your own predetermined conclusions without any evidence. SAD!
(Score: 2) by arslan on Tuesday June 12 2018, @03:40AM (1 child)
The only reason the U.S. haven't already pulled "Sadam Hussein" on them is because of China. Trump of course has a lot less reserve in respecting that status quo, whether deliberately or just being batshit crazy depends on your own political posture and biases.
The change in NK's posture recently is also because of China. The moment Xi consolidated his power and summoned Kim, it pretty much says China is no longer just the passive Big Brother standing behind NK - they can make (prevent other pulling a Sadam like you say on them) or break NK (China themselves pull the Sadam on NK). Whether Trump has a part in nudging Chairman Xi is anyone's guess.
Anything or nothing that happens from here on forward with respect to NK will be at the behest and interest of China. The US and rest of the world can only try to see if they can get anything out of it. If Trump is the ruthlessly smart businessman that some say he is, he probably understands this. Things are starting to change/move, which is a lot better than the stagnant stalemate talk-fest of the past decades.
Sometimes volatility is good after long periods of stagnation, it at least gives the smart an opportunity to make/get something out of it.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday June 12 2018, @03:23PM
That's an astute read of China's role.
I'd say it's signaling the start of the next phase of China's quest for world domination.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Wednesday June 13 2018, @04:08AM
Maybe, maybe not. I'm guessing the Trump-Kim negotiation went something like this:
Trump: If you denuke, we'll help with your economic development. NK could be even greater than SK! And we'll make sure no one attacks you.
Kim: Sounds good! where do I sign?
Especially since Kim's body language indicates he views Trump as a mentor.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by sjames on Tuesday June 12 2018, @07:10AM
I learned everything I needed to know about trump many many years ago. The bottom had just fallen out of junk bonds. I walked past a bookstore and saw a stack of Trump's "The Art of the Deal" marked 90% off.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday June 12 2018, @02:55PM
You've assessed the context for the talks correctly. Kim is turning lemons into lemonade (as far as he can).
Trump could be too, though. He wouldn't be the first president to use foreign affairs to generate the political capital he needs to get the domestic agenda he wants enacted; if he can cast himself as the guy who faced down Kim and his nuclear program, he will have minted himself political coin to do just that.
We don't know if Kim will get the better of Trump. It seems to me he's facing a lose-lose proposition. If he opens NK up, he'll be deposed. If he remains intransigent with a nuclear program that is defunct, as you have pointed out, he'll get clobbered even harder.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @01:16AM (7 children)
Why is this on the front page? Nothing is happening! It's not news for nerds!
(Score: 3, Insightful) by takyon on Tuesday June 12 2018, @01:22AM
No handshake? No meeting? No problem!
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Tuesday June 12 2018, @01:26AM (3 children)
Found the tech angle!
http://www.newsweek.com/what-dennis-rodman-doing-donald-trumps-meeting-kim-jong-un-potcoin-sponsors-971229 [newsweek.com]
http://fortune.com/2018/06/07/dennis-rodman-potcoin-cryptocurrency-north-korea-summit/ [fortune.com]
http://www.economicsgazette.com/potcoin-pot-up-to-0-089823-marketcap-at-19771263.html [economicsgazette.com]
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Tuesday June 12 2018, @01:33AM (2 children)
I always like what you have to say, but of course "pot" was going to be involved somehow.
Trump is guaranteed reelection if he federally legalizes pot before the next election. Will he do it? Probably not. But we all can dream...
(Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Tuesday June 12 2018, @01:55AM
Hey, it's not my fault that Kim Jong's BFF is hocking cryptoweed.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @04:48AM
I'd love it, just to see the rationalization of the other side when they oppose it.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by janrinok on Tuesday June 12 2018, @08:14AM (1 child)
"News for Nerds" - er, that is the other site. Look at the top of this page, it says "SoylentNews is People".
About a hour or so ago at the time of my reply, Trump and Un signed a 'document'. Nothing has been revealed about the content of that document yet, but it will be in a few hours time. Things are happening, you are just unaware of the world about you.
Because, whatever you might think of the politics behind this meeting, this is a very unusual event. We do cover such stories from time to time. We also give you permission to skip any stories that you don't like and wait for the next one to come along. Even better, get off your butt and submit something!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @11:18PM
I lost all respect for NPR when they cracked and started covering OJ Simpson. SoylentNews seems to have reached the same level of feckless complicity.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday June 12 2018, @02:09AM (4 children)
"I'll tell you when they're out." - referring to the reporters who were being whisked away.
https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/1006348830357557248 [twitter.com]
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @03:26AM (2 children)
What Trump and his staff really wanted -- was some sleep. By going to Singapore he's put himself at a big disadvantage in terms of jet lag. If you haven't been 12 hours out, it can be really debilitating. Took me a good week to begin to feel normal and not fall asleep at odd times (odd to the locals in S. Korea). And then I had to go home...
(Score: 2) by suburbanitemediocrity on Tuesday June 12 2018, @04:52AM (1 child)
Going from East to West is no problem, I've never even noticed. Coming back is the problem.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @05:47AM
Easy-peasy - go home traveling westwards.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday June 12 2018, @04:12AM
...when everyone except the translators are out [sbs.com.au]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @07:39AM (3 children)
Here's my theory.
Who benefits from Trump continuing to "rock the boat"?
I'm betting Russia and/or China have already spelled it out to N.Korea and done their part to make kissing Trump's butt palatable.
N.Korea will get something from the U.S. of course... if only to make the deal look legitimate.
Heck, the Koreas might even reunify. If the U.S. alliances weaken Korea will practically be a province of China anyways.
Just in theory.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @08:47AM (1 child)
Is a reunified Korea weaker? The South has to deal with 25 million poor, hungry people, but gains undeveloped land and resources and doesn't have to do nuke drills anymore. The Northerners will be destined for low paying work. For starters, they are 1-3 inches shorter and technologically illiterate. With double the population and all of the wealth, the South would make the rules.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 12 2018, @03:44PM
Depends. Will they reunite under the Southern or the Northern government?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday June 12 2018, @10:26AM
Very doubtful. China gains a lot of leverage over South Korea, if it's divided from North Korea. Two small provinces absorb better than one big one.