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posted by janrinok on Wednesday June 13, @07:22PM   Printer-friendly
from the unexpected-consequences dept.

"Lava from the Kilauea eruption has boiled away Hawaii's largest freshwater lake in just a matter of hours.

In a statement released on June 2, the U.S. Geological Survey explained that lava from the eruption's fissure 8 entered Green Lake and boiled its water away, sending a white plume high into the sky.

USGS tweeted that lava entered Green Lake at 10 AM local time. By 3PM, Hawaii County Fire Department confirmed that the lake had filled and that its water had evaporated." foxnews.com/science/2018/06/12/hawaii-volcano-kilauea-lava-boiled-away-big-islands-largest-freshwater-lake.html


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  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 13, @07:29PM (9 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 13, @07:29PM (#692489)

    For some reason, this bothers me:

    foxnews.com/science/

    Was there a (D) after Kilauea?

    • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 13, @07:51PM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 13, @07:51PM (#692501)

      Well, absolutely in character for the submitter, but might tell something about the editors...

      But certainly it's the ridiculous Green Lake that had the (D) - and isn't the name telling! - while the victorious Kilauea would have carried the (R), if not a TRUMP in all caps.

    • (Score: 2) by richtopia on Wednesday June 13, @09:21PM (3 children)

      by richtopia (3160) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 13, @09:21PM (#692537) Homepage Journal

      It may be a science story, but the embedded video still feels very Fox New. Big headlines in all caps and bolding point words in red. Such as:

      LAVA FROM THE FISSURE 8 STARTED FILLING THE LAKE... AND WITHIN 90 MINUTES... THE MOLTEN ROCK EVAPORATED THE ENTIRE BODY OF WATER... WHICH IS ABOUT 200 FEET DEEP.

      • (Score: 5, Funny) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday June 13, @09:47PM

        by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday June 13, @09:47PM (#692553)

        Still can't get it right, can they?

        WHICH WAS ABOUT 200 FEET DEEP.

      • (Score: 4, Informative) by Fluffeh on Wednesday June 13, @09:54PM

        by Fluffeh (954) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 13, @09:54PM (#692559) Journal

        It's a fresh story on Fox it seems, but amusingly it was covered on other sites around a week or more ago (note the date in the URL below from NPR)

        https://www.npr.org/2018/06/07/617860832/lava-from-kilauea-boils-away-freshwater-lake-in-hawaii [npr.org]

        Green Lake was gone in hours.

        Lava from Kilauea volcano spilled across highways and into Hawaii's Green Lake — a major source of freshwater on Hawaii's Big Island — and evaporated all the water, according to the U.S. Geological Survey.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14, @08:00AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14, @08:00AM (#692757)

        And Soy is SO on top of the news that the June 2nd arrives on the 11th. Whoopee, 1970 called, seems they're still on hold!

    • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Thursday June 14, @05:45PM

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday June 14, @05:45PM (#693039) Journal

      For some reason, this bothers me: foxnews.com/science/

      Fox News concedes the existence of Volcanoes because Global Warming.

      It's every other part of Geology they misinform their audience about.

  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday June 13, @08:08PM (13 children)

    by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Wednesday June 13, @08:08PM (#692508)

    I live in a city built on something like 50 volcanoes, the youngest of which is only 600 years old.

    None of them are erupting at the moment, but when I see the videos from Hawaii I feel like I ought to be more worried than I am.

    Wikipedia reassures me that the volcanic field is dormant. Whatever that means.

    • (Score: 3, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 13, @08:54PM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 13, @08:54PM (#692521)

      Of course it is dormant. You wouldn't need me to tell you if it were not: earthquakes, eruption noise and your neighbourhood flattened by lava flows are hard-to-miss signs of non-dormancy, even for the uninitiated.

      • (Score: 5, Funny) by bob_super on Wednesday June 13, @09:39PM (2 children)

        by bob_super (1357) on Wednesday June 13, @09:39PM (#692547)

        Please update wikipedia before trying to outrun the pyroclastic flows.

        • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday June 13, @09:56PM (1 child)

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday June 13, @09:56PM (#692561)

          And do not text and drive...

          • (Score: 2) by coolgopher on Thursday June 14, @01:30AM

            by coolgopher (1157) Subscriber Badge on Thursday June 14, @01:30AM (#692639)

            But make sure you also periscope/twitch/insta/whatever the view in the rear view mirror on the way out...

    • (Score: 5, Informative) by The Archon V2.0 on Wednesday June 13, @09:08PM (1 child)

      by The Archon V2.0 (3887) on Wednesday June 13, @09:08PM (#692530)

      > Wikipedia reassures me that the volcanic field is dormant. Whatever that means.

      Don't worry, I'm sure that if there's an eruption during Wikipedia's lifetime, someone will update the page once the lava's flowing through the streets.

      And then it will be reverted as original research.

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 13, @10:43PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 13, @10:43PM (#692579)

        Hopefully it will last long enough to be cited by a news story, which can then be used a basis for re-editing the wikipedia page. ;-)

    • (Score: 3, Funny) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday June 13, @09:51PM (3 children)

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday June 13, @09:51PM (#692556)

      It's like Maui, and Mt. Saint Helens - they're dormant until they're not.

    • (Score: 2) by looorg on Wednesday June 13, @11:16PM

      by looorg (578) on Wednesday June 13, @11:16PM (#692592)

      Wikipedia reassures me that the volcanic field is dormant. Whatever that means.

      Are they not all dormant until the moment that they are not dormant anymore ... which is usually when you get a hot golden shower of lava?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14, @03:49AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14, @03:49AM (#692685)
      Just move south to Rotorua then you don't have to worry about so many ;).
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14, @08:02AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14, @08:02AM (#692758)

      Ah, Orc-Land in LOTR. 50 volcanoes would cause about $30 (real value) in cleanup of the accumulated garbage.

  • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 13, @08:16PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 13, @08:16PM (#692511)
  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Snotnose on Wednesday June 13, @08:30PM (19 children)

    by Snotnose (1623) on Wednesday June 13, @08:30PM (#692516)

    When this whole thing started with the lava getting close to it's first house one of the news droids was interviewing some guy. He said "Why doesn't the fire department come out and help us?".

    I'd love to see that news droid track this idiot down and ask "So, still think the fire department is gonna help?".

    --
    The journey of a thousand miles may begin with the first step being in a pile of doggie doo.
    • (Score: 4, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 13, @08:33PM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 13, @08:33PM (#692517)

      "Yeah, they could use their hoses to refill our lake."

      • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 13, @11:48PM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 13, @11:48PM (#692609)

        "Yeah, they could use their hoses to refill our lake."

        Actually, they probably could. Though this was the largest fresh water lake in Hawaii, there were only two fresh water lakes in Hawaii. This lake measured less than 100m X 100m.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14, @05:21AM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14, @05:21AM (#692719)

          So they call little ponds "lake" in Hawai... hmmm

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14, @02:59PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14, @02:59PM (#692946)

            So they call little ponds "lake" in Hawai... hmmm

            Maybe "lake" was the native word for "pond" and it just stuck?

            • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday June 14, @05:09PM

              by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Thursday June 14, @05:09PM (#693010)

              I think a left wing liberal conspiracy is a more likely explanation for using the word lake to refer to a pond.

    • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Wednesday June 13, @09:03PM

      by tangomargarine (667) on Wednesday June 13, @09:03PM (#692525)

      I get that you're being sarcastic about something, but what is your point?

      --
      "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 13, @09:32PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 13, @09:32PM (#692542)
      It's not entirely unheard of - Iceland managed it in the 1970s, but those were different circumstances with a very different flow rate. The BBC has an interesting article on ways people have tried diverting lava in the past: https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29136747 [bbc.com]
      • (Score: 2) by Fluffeh on Wednesday June 13, @10:00PM

        by Fluffeh (954) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 13, @10:00PM (#692563) Journal

        Most informative link in the threads on this post!

    • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 13, @09:38PM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 13, @09:38PM (#692546)

      Back around 1935 the Army dropped bombs in the volcano to try and deviate or stop the flow. Before that Pele got virgins thrown in, but that probably wouldn't work today due to a shortage. I think the best way to stop a volcano would be by throwing every SJW and Hillary fan into the caldera, and top that off with a nuke.

      • (Score: 4, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 13, @11:16PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 13, @11:16PM (#692593)

        Before that Pele got virgins thrown in, but that probably wouldn't work today due to a shortage.

        Finally! A career path for incels!! No shortage of virgins there, and Pele being a Goddess, male virgins are probably more super effective!

        • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14, @02:27AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14, @02:27AM (#692658)

          Naah. With a temper like that, she's definitely a lesbian.

      • (Score: 2) by JeanCroix on Thursday June 14, @12:49PM

        by JeanCroix (573) on Thursday June 14, @12:49PM (#692855)

        I think the best way to stop a volcano would be by throwing every SJW and Hillary fan into the caldera, and top that off with a nuke.

        You imbecile, everyone knows that Xenu tried that millions of years ago. And all that happened is that nowadays we're plagued with these pesky body thetans.

      • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday June 14, @05:10PM

        by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Thursday June 14, @05:10PM (#693011)

        A number of atomic bombs could be used to re-route the lava and improve the lives of everyone on the island.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by frojack on Wednesday June 13, @09:41PM (4 children)

      by frojack (1554) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 13, @09:41PM (#692549) Journal

      Actually, lava flows have been steered via water cooling in a number of instances.

      Efforts to reduce damage caused by the force of the lava flow have been made several times, notably in the form of the construction of dikes or ramparts. The protection measures at Heimaey are undoubtedly the most extensive that have ever been used in a volcanic eruption. The chief reliance was upon cooling by water. This method has been tried previously on a small scale in Hawaii in about 1960, where the spraying was done directly on the lava margin and was considered to have produced results [Editor's Note: Bolt and others, 1977; Blong, 1984; Macdonald and others, 1986]. Perhaps an experiment of this kind was also [said to be] undertaken at Mt. Etna (on Sicily, Italy) a few years ago.

      https://pubs.usgs.gov/of/1997/of97-724/lavacool.html [usgs.gov]

      More detailed information about an Iceland water cooling project:
      https://pubs.usgs.gov/of/1997/of97-724/methods.html [usgs.gov]

      Water flows necessary to actually cool the lava leading edge enough to form a steering dike takes a while to set up, huge pumps and you need to do it on the right type of terrain, to steer the flow, not try to stop it. How would civil authorities decide to sacrifice one subdivision in favor of another?

      Hawaii is kind of fatalistic with regard to lava flows. Its easier to just get out of the way, and it might cost less in the end.

      --
      No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
      • (Score: 4, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday June 13, @10:06PM

        by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday June 13, @10:06PM (#692567)

        Usually, when you do clever things to alter nature: dams, levees, causeways, channels, etc. there are unexpected prices to pay later (unpleasant ecosystem development, more dramatic flooding when it comes, accelerated erosion, etc.), and maintaining the clever structure can quickly cost more than building it in the first place. Getting clever with lava flows is like asking Pele to teach you a lesson.

      • (Score: 2) by cubancigar11 on Thursday June 14, @05:24AM (2 children)

        by cubancigar11 (330) Subscriber Badge on Thursday June 14, @05:24AM (#692723) Homepage Journal

        I going to patent an idea right now: Use all the plastic garbage USA dumps in the ocean to build a wall around lava to divert its flow. There will never be shortage of plastic and ocean will get clean. The only downside is all the poisonous fumes but how are you going to avoid it during a volcano anyway?

        • (Score: 2) by frojack on Thursday June 14, @03:44PM (1 child)

          by frojack (1554) Subscriber Badge on Thursday June 14, @03:44PM (#692967) Journal

          The US does not dump plastic or garbage in the Ocean. So file your patent claims in south east Asia.
          And do a little research maybe.

          --
          No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
          • (Score: 2) by cubancigar11 on Thursday June 14, @06:37PM

            by cubancigar11 (330) Subscriber Badge on Thursday June 14, @06:37PM (#693097) Homepage Journal

            Fine man we get the garbage from wherever. Patented ideas are country agnostic because ideas are country agnostic. Way to miss the meat for the skin.

    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday June 13, @10:00PM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday June 13, @10:00PM (#692562)

      Well, RDT summed it up for that crew, this is in their unexpected-consequences dept.

      OTOH, the fire dept. could have pitched in a hand first getting people evacuated, and second maybe helping to save some property if there wasn't any risk to life and limb in doing so.

  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 13, @08:35PM (10 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 13, @08:35PM (#692518)

    Anyone see anything about this lakes volume? I can't find it anywhere.

    Of course wikipedia lists it as a "former lake" already. But the pictures it has of it don't make it appear very large.

    • (Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Wednesday June 13, @08:53PM (8 children)

      by AthanasiusKircher (5291) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 13, @08:53PM (#692520) Journal

      Yeah, I think this was a pretty small lake. Wikipedia claims it was 200 feet deep, and numerous news sources have repeated that, but state data files [hawaii.gov] from Hawaii say its maximum depth is only 20 feet, with a surface area of 2 acres.

      (Just wondering aloud -- does no one do anything like fact-checking anymore, or just accept whatever BS Wikipedia serves up? Of course, this was the first official state data file I could find, so it may not necessarily be accurate -- but 200 feet deep vs. 20 feet is a huge difference.)

      That's a pretty small lake. May have been important (as not many freshwater lakes in Hawaii) but sounds tiny as bodies of water go.

      • (Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Wednesday June 13, @09:09PM

        by AthanasiusKircher (5291) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 13, @09:09PM (#692531) Journal

        Found this [bishopmuseum.org] survey of Hawaiian lakes, which includes a detailed map of the lake with depth indicated on page 6, indicating maximum depth between 6 and 7 meters (about 20 feet).

        Perhaps all the "200 feet deep" sources might be fake news.

      • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday June 13, @09:44PM (3 children)

        by bob_super (1357) on Wednesday June 13, @09:44PM (#692551)

        > That's a pretty small lake. May have been important (as not many freshwater lakes in Hawaii) but sounds tiny as bodies of water go.

        That's still a lot of water to boil off in less than 5 hours. Maybe I should move there, the kids will get their pasta a whole lot faster than with my not-really-puny gas range.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 13, @10:18PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 13, @10:18PM (#692573)

          Maybe I should move there, the kids will get their pasta a whole lot faster than with my not-really-puny gas range.

          I think you mean your Puna lava range.

        • (Score: 4, Interesting) by AthanasiusKircher on Wednesday June 13, @11:24PM (1 child)

          by AthanasiusKircher (5291) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 13, @11:24PM (#692596) Journal

          That's still a lot of water to boil off in less than 5 hours.

          True. With a back-of-envelope calculation, I think it probably would require somewhere around 4.5 gigawatts of power over those 5 hours to evaporate water at that rate. (Someone else can check the math, but I think it's around that magnitude.)

          Of course, on the other hand, the volume of the lake was probably only on the order of a million cubic feet. Meanwhile, the current eruption has produced something like 4 billion cubic feet of lava... And a cubic foot of lava could roughly evaporate a cubic foot of water as it cools, so this lake is a tiny fraction of the heat energy produced in the eruption.

          • (Score: 3, Funny) by JeanCroix on Thursday June 14, @12:55PM

            by JeanCroix (573) on Thursday June 14, @12:55PM (#692859)

            With a back-of-envelope calculation, I think it probably would require somewhere around 4.5 gigawatts of power over those 5 hours to evaporate water at that rate.

            Wow, that's enough power for three trips to 1985!

      • (Score: 4, Interesting) by FatPhil on Wednesday June 13, @10:01PM (1 child)

        by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Wednesday June 13, @10:01PM (#692564) Homepage
        Well, the wikipedia bullshit injection is this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Green_Lake_%28Hawaii%29&diff=844640234&oldid=844639879
        As added by "Sounder Bruce" who self-identifies as "I am Bruce Englehardt, board member of Cascadia Wikimedians User Group. I primarily edit articles about the Puget Sound region and Washington, with an emphasis on transportation and the built environment."
        As someone who seems to do many dozens of edits a day, sometimes up to a hundred, he seems to satisfy the stereotype of "those who do many dozens of wikipedia edits, sometimes up to a hundred, a day are actually useless cunts" that a group of data scientists concluded (albeit with slightly different words) a few years ago.

        Well done, Bruce Englehardt - pat yourself on the back, you're now officially a flag-waving member of the "I am part of the problem" club.
        --
        Life is a precious commodity. A wise investor would get rid of it when it has the highest value.
        • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday June 13, @10:09PM

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday June 13, @10:09PM (#692569)

          What Bruce forgot to mention was that the 200' deep point in the lake was in a lava tube 6' wide, which silted over in the 1950s.... (also fake news...)

      • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday June 13, @10:02PM

        by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday June 13, @10:02PM (#692565)

        Shield volcanoes generally don't make big scooped out shapes that hold water (other in the caldera).

        does no one do anything like fact-checking anymore

        Not when the checked facts are less sensational than the easy to find ones.

    • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday June 14, @05:12PM

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Thursday June 14, @05:12PM (#693012)

      Anyone see anything about this lakes volume? I can't find it anywhere.

      Most lakes are quiet. Probably this one was also.

  • (Score: 1) by Sulla on Wednesday June 13, @08:55PM (3 children)

    by Sulla (5173) on Wednesday June 13, @08:55PM (#692523) Journal

    Were there any species of plant/animal that were unique to this body of water?

    --
    "I'd rather take a political risk for peace rather than risk peace in pursuit of politics" - President Donald J. Trump
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 13, @11:02PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 13, @11:02PM (#692584)

      Yes, the Green Lake pickerel. RIP

    • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Thursday June 14, @01:06AM (1 child)

      by Gaaark (41) Subscriber Badge on Thursday June 14, @01:06AM (#692634) Homepage Journal

      That was my thought: was there something there that RAIN couldn't replace.

      Hoping someone there was collecting animals both male and female in some kind of big wooden ship in order to replace the loss.

      --
      --- That's not flying: that's... falling... with more luck than I have. ---
      • (Score: 4, Funny) by Sulla on Thursday June 14, @01:49AM

        by Sulla (5173) on Thursday June 14, @01:49AM (#692650) Journal

        Unsure if big wooden ship is best option given the circumstances.

        --
        "I'd rather take a political risk for peace rather than risk peace in pursuit of politics" - President Donald J. Trump
  • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 13, @09:35PM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 13, @09:35PM (#692544)

    It would be expensive but not too difficult to remove the solified lava and volcanic ash.

    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday June 13, @10:12PM (1 child)

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday June 13, @10:12PM (#692571)

      Sort of like building up Florida's coastal developments to keep pace with rising sea level... yeah, that's going to go well.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14, @03:59AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14, @03:59AM (#692688)

        Import a few dykes from Holland, stick a finger in them and feel the rainbow love

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