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posted by janrinok on Sunday June 24 2018, @03:53PM   Printer-friendly
from the more-whoosh dept.

'Snapdragon 1000' chip may be designed for PCs from the ground up

Qualcomm's Snapdragon 850 processor may be intended for PCs, but it's still a half step -- it's really a higher-clocked version of the same processor you'd find in your phone. The company may be more adventurous the next time, though. WinFuture says it has obtained details surrounding SDM1000 (possibly Snapdragon 1000), a previously hinted-at CPU that would be designed from the start for PCs. It would have a relatively huge design compared to most ARM designs (20mm x 15mm) and would consume a laptop-like 12W of power across the entire system-on-a-chip. It would compete directly with Intel's low-power Core processors where the existing 835 isn't really in the ballpark.

By comparison, the Snapdragon 850 has a maximum TDP of just 6.5 Watts.

A reference design for the chip includes 16 GB of LPDDR4X memory, 2 × 128 GB of UFS 2.1 internal storage, and Gigabit WLAN.

See also: Snapdragon-based Chromebook could rival always-connected PCs

Related: Windows 10 PCs Running on Qualcomm Snapdragon 835 to Arrive this Year
First ARM Snapdragon-Based Windows 10 S Systems Announced
Snapdragon 845 Announced
Qualcomm's new Snapdragon 850 processor will arrive in Windows PCs this year


Original Submission

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Windows 10 PCs Running on Qualcomm Snapdragon 835 to Arrive this Year 15 comments

http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-ultralight-pcs-based-on-arm-smartphone-chips-set-for-q4-says-qualcomm/

The ARM partnership between Microsoft and Qualcomm is notable as it expands Windows 10's existing support of x86 chips from Intel and AMD. It also looks set to overcome the constraints of Microsoft's previous ARM effort with Windows RT.

The Snapdragon 835 PCs will run full Windows 10 desktop, which has been compiled natively for Qualcomm's SoCs. They'll also run Win32 apps via an emulator, as well as universal Windows apps. Microsoft billed the forthcoming devices as a "truly mobile, power-efficient, always-connected cellular PC".


Original Submission

First ARM Snapdragon-Based Windows 10 S Systems Announced 15 comments

Microsoft Windows is back on ARM:

Just shy of a year after announcing that Windows was once again going to be available on ARM systems, the first two systems were announced today: the Asus NovaGo 2-in-1 laptop, and the HP Envy x2 tablet.

[...] The Asus laptop boasts 22 hours of battery life or 30 days of standby, along with LTE that can run at gigabit speeds. HP's tablet offers a 12.3 inch, 1920×1280 screen, 20 hours battery life or 29 days of standby, and a removable keyboard-cover and stylus. Both systems use the Snapdragon 835 processor and X16 LTE modem, with HP offering up to 8GB RAM and 256GB storage to go with it.

Lenovo is expected to announce a similar system in the coming weeks.

Also at The Verge, Engadget, and TechCrunch.

Previously: Big Changes Planned by Microsoft - Windows 10 on ARM, Laptops to Behave More Like Phones
Windows 10 PCs Running on Qualcomm Snapdragon 835 to Arrive this Year
New Windows 10 S Only Runs Software From Windows Store
Microsoft Knows Windows is Obsolete. Here's a Sneak Peek at Its Replacement.
New App Allows Win32 Software to Run on Windows 10 S
Intel Hints at Patent Fight With Microsoft and Qualcomm Over x86 Emulation


Original Submission

Snapdragon 845 Announced 6 comments

Snapdragon 845 is a newly announced Qualcomm ARM system-on-a-chip (SoC) built on a 10nm "Low Power Plus" process. It is the first SoC to implement ARM's new DynamiQ clustering scheme:

The Snapdragon 845 is a large step in terms of SoC architectures as it's the first to employ ARM's DynamiQ CPU cluster organization. Quickly explained, DynamIQ enables the various different CPU cores within an SoC to be hosted within the same cluster and cache hierarchy, as opposed to having separate discrete clusters with no shared cache between them (with coherency instead happening over an interconnect such as ARM's CCI). This major transition is probably the largest to date that we've seen in modern mobile smartphone ARM consumer SoCs.

[...] The Kryo 385 gold/performance cluster runs at up to 2.8GHz, which is a 14% frequency increase over the 2.45GHz of the Snapdragon 835's CPU core. But we also have to remember that given that the new CPU cores are likely based on A75's we should be expecting IPC gains of up to 22-34% based on use-cases, bringing the overall expected performance improvement to 25-39%. Qualcomm promises a 25-30% increase so we're not far off from ARM's projections.

The silver/efficiency cluster is running at 1.8GHz, this is clocked slightly slower than the A53's on the Snapdragon 835 however the maximum clocks of the efficiency cluster is mainly determined by where the efficiency curve of the performance cluster intersects. Nevertheless the efficiency cores promise 15% boost in performance compared to its predecessor.

The Adreno 630 GPU should provide up to 30% better performance than the Snapdragon 835's Adreno 540 at the same level of power consumption. Snapdragon 845 devices can record (encode) 2160p60 10-bit H.265 video, compared to 2160p30 for Snapdragon 835.

Also at The Verge, CNET, TechCrunch, BGR, and 9to5Google.

Previously: Qualcomm's Snapdragon 835 Detailed: 3 Billion Transistors on a 10nm Process


Original Submission

ARM Aims to Match Intel 15-Watt Laptop CPU Performance 12 comments

Arm Unveils Client CPU Performance Roadmap Through 2020 - Taking Intel Head On

Today's roadmap now publicly discloses the codenames of the next two generations of CPU cores following the A76 – Deimos and Hercules. Both future cores are based on the new A76 micro-architecture and will introduce respective evolutionary refinements and incremental updates for the Austin cores.

The A76 being a 2018 product – and we should be hearing more on the first commercial devices on 7nm towards the end of the year and coming months, Deimos is its 2019 successor aiming at more wide-spread 7nm adoption. Hercules is said to be the next iteration of the microarchitecture for 2020 products and the first 5nm implementations. This is as far as Arm is willing to project in the future for today's disclosure, as the Sophia team is working on the next big microarchitecture push, which I suspect will be the successor to Hercules in 2021.

Part of today's announcement is Arm's reiteration of the performance and power goals of the A76 against competing platforms from Intel. The measurement metric today was the performance of a SPECint2006 Speed run under Linux while complied under GCC7. The power metrics represent the whole SoC "TDP", meaning CPU, interconnect and memory controllers – essentially the active platform power much in a similar way we've been representing smartphone mobile power in recent mobile deep-dive articles.

Here a Cortex A76 based system running at up to 3GHz is said to match the single-thread performance of an Intel Core i5-7300U running at its maximum 3.5GHz turbo operating speed, all while doing it within a TDP of less than 5W, versus "15W" for the Intel system. I'm not too happy with the power presentation done here by Arm as we kind of have an apples-and-oranges comparison; the Arm estimates here are meant to represent actual power consumption under the single-threaded SPEC workload while the Intel figures are the official TDP figures of the SKU – which obviously don't directly apply to this scenario.

Also at TechCrunch.

See also: Arm Maps Out Attack on Intel Core i5
ARM's First Client PC Roadmap Makes Bold Claims, Doesn't Back Them Up
ARM says its next processors will outperform Intel laptop chips

Related: ARM Based Laptop DIY Kit Ready to Hit the Shops
First ARM Snapdragon-Based Windows 10 S Systems Announced
Laptop and Phone Convergence at CES
Snapdragon 1000 ARM SoC Could Compete With Low-Power Intel Chips in Laptops


Original Submission

Intel Reportedly "Petitioned Microsoft Heavily" to Use x86 Instead of ARM Chips in Surface Go 15 comments

Intel reportedly convinced Microsoft not to choose ARM for Surface Go

Microsoft launched its new Surface Go device earlier this month with an Intel Pentium Gold processor inside. It's been one of the main focus points for discussions around performance and mobility for this 10-inch Surface, and lots of people have wondered why Microsoft didn't opt for Qualcomm's Snapdragon processors and Windows on ARM. Paul Thurrott reports that Microsoft wanted to use an ARM processor for the Surface Go, but that Intel intervened.

Intel reportedly "petitioned Microsoft heavily" to use its Pentium Gold processors instead of ARM ones. It's not clear why Microsoft didn't push ahead with its ARM plans for Surface Go, but in my own experience the latest Snapdragon chips simply don't have the performance and compatibility to match Intel on laptops just yet. Microsoft has been working hard to improve this though, despite Intel's threats it would sue competitors like Qualcomm if they attempt to emulate Intel's x86 instruction set architecture.

Wintel looms large.

Previously: The Surface Go Reviews Are In, and... They're a Bit All Over the Place

Related: Intel Hints at Patent Fight With Microsoft and Qualcomm Over x86 Emulation
First ARM Snapdragon-Based Windows 10 S Systems Announced
Snapdragon 1000 ARM SoC Could Compete With Low-Power Intel Chips in Laptops
ARM Aims to Match Intel 15-Watt Laptop CPU Performance


Original Submission

Apple Reveals A12X Bionic SoC, With 10 Billion Transistors 12 comments

Apple announces A12X with a 7-core GPU, 90% better multicore performance

It's been just a few short weeks since Apple unveiled the A12 Bionic, but at an event in New York City, the Cupertino company upstaged it with a more powerful model: the A12X Bionic. It's the chip in the new iPad Pro.

Apple's A12X is similarly built on a 7-nanometer process, but bigger than the A12.

"No other tablet, laptop, or even desktop has been able to make this leap forward," John Ternus, vice president of hardware engineering, said onstage.

It has 10 billion transistors and comprises a seven-core GPU and eight-core CPU, the latter of which has four performance cores and four efficiency cores. Single-core CPU performance is up to 35 percent faster compared to last year's iPad Pro chip, and 90 percent faster in terms of multicore performance.

[...] Apple says it delivers "Xbox One S-class" graphics performance in a package that is much smaller, and claims it's faster than 92 percent of all portable PCs.

Also at Wccftech.

Related: Apple Wants to Ship More ARM Chips in Macs
Apple to Include its Own Chips Inside More Macs
Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs From 2020, Replacing Intel
Snapdragon 1000 ARM SoC Could Compete With Low-Power Intel Chips in Laptops
ARM Aims to Match Intel 15-Watt Laptop CPU Performance


Original Submission

Qualcomm Announces Snapdragon 8cx, an ARM Chip Intended for Laptops 17 comments

Qualcomm announces the Snapdragon 8cx, an 'extreme' processor for Windows laptops

The "X" stands for "extreme." That's what Qualcomm's marketing department wants you to think about the new eight-core Snapdragon 8cx.

It's a brand-new processor for always-connected Windows laptops and 2-in-1 convertible PCs, and from Qualcomm's perspective, it might seem a little extreme. Physically, it's the largest processor the company has ever made, with the most powerful CPU and GPU Qualcomm has devised yet. Qualcomm says it'll be the first 7nm chip for a PC platform, beating a struggling Intel to the punch, and the biggest performance leap for a Snapdragon ever. The company's promising "amazing battery life," and up to 2Gbps cellular connectivity.

The TDP is 7 Watts, and the chip supports up to 16GB of LPDDR4x RAM.

Previously, a "Snapdragon 1000" for laptops was said to be in the works, but with a 12 Watt TDP.

See also: Firefox running on a Qualcomm 8cx-powered PC feels surprisingly decent

Previously: First ARM Snapdragon-Based Windows 10 S Systems Announced
Snapdragon 845 Announced
ARM Aims to Match Intel 15-Watt Laptop CPU Performance
Intel Reportedly "Petitioned Microsoft Heavily" to Use x86 Instead of ARM Chips in Surface Go


Original Submission

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  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Snotnose on Sunday June 24 2018, @04:04PM (16 children)

    by Snotnose (1623) on Sunday June 24 2018, @04:04PM (#697598)

    So you went out and bought a brand new laptop with a Qualcomm chip. Good luck finding software that will run on it. The x86 may be a crappy ISA but it's entrenched. Until the ecosystem moves to something like Java we're stuck with it.

    --
    Why is tamales pronounced tamales but females is pronounced females instead of females?
    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 24 2018, @04:24PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 24 2018, @04:24PM (#697611)

      The Snapdragon line was introduced in 2007. It wouldn't have lasted that long if it couldn't run software. One device based on the Snapdragon 410 offered "support for Android, Windows 10 IoT Core, and Yocto, Debian, and Ubuntu Linux." (source [linuxgizmos.com])

      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 24 2018, @04:26PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 24 2018, @04:26PM (#697614)

        > It wouldn't have lasted that long if it couldn't run software.

        Scratch that, I forgot Itanium.

        • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday June 25 2018, @03:43PM

          But Itanium comes with the x86 emulator! And no, I don't mean the x86 copro that didn't work properly, I mean a real opcode emulator: https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1007811/intel-makes-itanium-an-x86-emulator
          --
          Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 24 2018, @04:24PM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 24 2018, @04:24PM (#697612)

      Good luck finding software that will run on it.

      People buy low-end laptops to run Chrome and Office.

      FIN.

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by KritonK on Sunday June 24 2018, @07:34PM (1 child)

        by KritonK (465) on Sunday June 24 2018, @07:34PM (#697674)

        Even a Raspberry Pi 2 is an almost decent desktop machine and a good media player. (I got one for the latter purpose, realizing the former, while setting up the machine.) With a faster processor and more memory, I can very well imagine an ARM processor being in the heart of a good Linux system.

        • (Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Sunday June 24 2018, @09:42PM

          by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Sunday June 24 2018, @09:42PM (#697733)

          I have one of the new Raspberry Pi 3's which runs at 1.2 GHZ and has 1Gb of RAM. At the moment it runs Volumio for me and does it very well, but I did install one of the Ubuntu images available, and it ran absolutely fine.

          It would be a great low-power solution for anyone wanting a basic PC.

      • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Monday June 25 2018, @07:29PM

        by bob_super (1357) on Monday June 25 2018, @07:29PM (#698308)

        Low-end laptops ?

        In both 2016 and 2017, smartphones shipments got close to 1.5 Billion. That's almost 100% ARM, and makes OP either a succesfull troll or slightly misinformed.
        That's not even counting feature phones and embedded products.
        There's a lot of software out there running on ARM cores. The x86 exclusives are shrinking to just Pro software and most AAA games.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 24 2018, @08:19PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 24 2018, @08:19PM (#697683)

      Or .NET

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 25 2018, @02:22AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 25 2018, @02:22AM (#697909)

        Until the ecosystem moves to something like Java

        Or .NET

        Bite your tongue.

        -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday June 24 2018, @09:48PM (1 child)

      by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Sunday June 24 2018, @09:48PM (#697738) Homepage

      I hate Qualcomm with a passion. Sure, they occasionally make good things, but I have always hated them for their reliance on H1-B labor even though they're smack-dab in the middle of a big city with a lot of American engineers looking for work.

      Anyway, I interviewed with them twice. Here's how they went.

      The first interview was for a hardware debugging position, so of course at least one White interviewer had to be involved in the discussion. The other two were Oriental and Indian. During that interview all of them had a strange fixation for logic analyzers. I told them no, I have never used a logic analyzer, but I have used 4-channel oscilloscopes for analyzing logic signals, sniffers with spectrum and vector network analyzers, custom test equipment, and anything else that blooped or bleeped; in both the RF and optical domains. I also reminded them that yes, I believe I am capable of quickly learning how to use a logic analyzer. At the end of the interview they told me they were looking for somebody who had experience using a logic analyzer, and that I wasn't going to cut it.

      The second interview went much worse. It was for a less-prestigious position. 15 minutes before the interview I got a call from an Asian lady asking if I was looking for a job (at another company for a totally different type of position) and I said that of course I was. After declining the offer I went into my interview and was greeted by an Asian lady who sounded exactly like the Asian lady who had called me minutes earlier. The other two interviewers were Indian, and asked me a variety of questions regarding my resume. The Oriental woman looked ridiculously disinterested in being there in the first place, as if somebody told her to be there for female diversity reasons and would much rather have been fucking off on the internet. I explained that I did programming for the Kinect but decided not to continue because the Kinect was a discontinued product. The Indian said, "Oh, so you unplugged it from your TV and that is why you didn't want to program it?" The other Indian, who clearly knew better English, visibly facepalmed. The interview ended with the dumber Indian telling me, "well, it seems from your resume that you are overqualified for this position." Then why the fuck did you invite me in to interview for this position in the first place given that my resume was the first thing you saw before you ever met me?!

      Both experiences have given me even more of a seething hatred of not only Indians, but Qualcomm. I wonder how much more efficient they'd be if they just hired American engineers and shelled out the extra 10K a year each for the quality and language proficiency boost. Indians, like other immigrants, are nepotist cancers which should never be allowed to hold a cultural majority in your American or European organizations. You could say that I'm just salty because I wasn't hired. No, I interviewed for a lot of places throughout the years and wasn't hired, my ego can survive something like that. What I am angry about is that it's obvious that they blatantly wasted my fucking time. There is a shit-ton of better-paying work around here with less incompetent people running the show, so don't treat my like I should be begging for an interview with your fucks. Go fuck yourselves, and a good bath with some soap wouldn't hurt either.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 24 2018, @09:55PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 24 2018, @09:55PM (#697745)

        Long-winded stupidity is still stupid.

    • (Score: 2) by ledow on Sunday June 24 2018, @11:24PM

      by ledow (5567) on Sunday June 24 2018, @11:24PM (#697799) Homepage

      You mean like Android, Dalvik, Chromebook....

      Use case, mainstream OS with millions of apps, cross-platform VM and a device you can buy in the shop now and sells millions that "only runs Chrome".

    • (Score: 3, Funny) by realDonaldTrump on Sunday June 24 2018, @11:41PM

      by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Sunday June 24 2018, @11:41PM (#697809) Homepage Journal

      I hear a lot about JavaScript. It works on computer and it works on phone. And it make the websites look INCREDIBLE!!!

    • (Score: 2) by bobthecimmerian on Monday June 25 2018, @03:47PM

      by bobthecimmerian (6834) on Monday June 25 2018, @03:47PM (#698164)

      According to https://www.anandtech.com/show/10889/microsoft-and-qualcomm-bring-windows-10-to-snapdragon-processors [anandtech.com] some of the Qualcomm processors will have some kind of x86 emulation. So you might be able to run your copy of Planescape: Torment on your new machine.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 25 2018, @05:21PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 25 2018, @05:21PM (#698210)

      ARM chips are pretty good these days, although GPU support is pretty shitty if you care about being FOSS at all. libhybris means you can use all the hardware with the blobby Android drivers, and aarch64 is 1st tier on quite a few distros. The main thing missing from most ARM boards is ECC (very necessary if you're running off of SD or eMMC) and memory support/capacity/bandwidth. More expandability would be nice too - a good bare bones board with a couple PCI slots and a real SATA or M.2 port would be nice. They're fast and cheap enough CPU-wise that there aren't any issues using them as a budget replacement for traditional "box" computers and all those cores really give them an edge over the low-power intel chips.

    • (Score: 2) by toddestan on Tuesday June 26 2018, @01:25AM

      by toddestan (4982) on Tuesday June 26 2018, @01:25AM (#698512)

      You can download and install ARM-based Linux distributions that are just about as complete as their x86 counterparts. In other words, just about any package for whatever open source application you might want to install for is available. It's really only a problem if you need to run closed source software, especially if it involves Windows.

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