Judge slams Tacoma for not releasing stingray records
A judge in Washington state has excoriated the Tacoma Police Department for withholding public records pertaining to its use of cell-site simulators, also known as stingrays. Back in 2016, the American Civil Liberties Union of Washington state sued the TPD on behalf of four community leaders, arguing that the department has not adequately responded to their public records requests concerning the use of stingrays, which included asking for a blank form authorizing its use.
"The [Public Records Act] establishes a positive duty to disclose public records unless they fall within specific exemptions," Judge G. Helen Whitener wrote in her Monday opinion. "This mandates that the City, upon receiving a request for documents, must first do an adequate search and then must produce the documents requested if there is not an exemption. The PRA does not require the City to analyze the reasons why the document is requested or to determine the relevance of the documents requested even if they are blank forms. The blank form taken in context of the other forms may have meaning to the requestor, and it is not for the City to analyze its relevance. To adopt the City's interpretation of the PRA would defeat the broad mandate of the PRA to allow access to public records not covered by and exemption."
(Score: 2) by TheGratefulNet on Monday July 02 2018, @09:17PM (42 children)
to change the bad behavior.
cops get freedom to shit all over our rights and when they are called on it, they act like they are god's little angels who can do no wrong.
we're all very sick of this shit!
the system is broken. the sooner it completely collapses, the better; that way, we can finally start to fix things properly.
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
(Score: 5, Insightful) by bob_super on Monday July 02 2018, @09:23PM (2 children)
The world's track record, seen from a freedom standpoint, when it comes to "fix this after it collapsed", is pretty dismal.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @09:25PM (1 child)
Yeah I much prefer fixing the pieces. The US has a decent system overall really, just need to get some specific pain points fixed.
(Score: 2) by TheGratefulNet on Tuesday July 03 2018, @02:35AM
I don't believe a partial fix or set of fixes will work.
sadly, I fully believe a complete revolution is needed and will happen.
not that I look forward to it, but I do think that the system is unfixable and the powers are too entrenched to let any MEANINGFUL change happen.
it has to be taken from them. sorry, but its how it is. we've tried peace and its not making any real change. we have to admit that peace will not work when the powerful have too much to lose.
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
(Score: 4, Interesting) by edIII on Monday July 02 2018, @09:35PM (38 children)
It's going to happen. Forgot where I heard the statistic, but I think the majority of Americans fear a civil war within 5 years. Civil war is going to happen in the USA, and it all but inevitable at this point. Shit like this helps a civil war happening, not to prevent it.
Cops are becoming the true enemy of the people. No accountability, they shoot people in the back, no transparency, not enough oversight, and apparently the only union that can actually protect the wellfare of its members. Unfortunately, to the extreme detriment of the public.
Thank God I have a way out, and am preparing to live out my days in the South American jungle. At least I will be free, unmonitored, and unmolested by government.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday July 02 2018, @09:45PM (9 children)
How many years ago did you hear that statistic? /sarc
(Score: 5, Interesting) by edIII on Monday July 02 2018, @11:16PM (8 children)
I know you're being sarcastic, but it was this weekend. When I hear it on a normal basis from angry posts on the Internet, I don't put all that much stock into it. Then again, when I hear it from prominent pundits, journalists, and polls.....
The violence in Portland this weekend was only the beginning, and portends much, much, more violence in the future. There is no civility left, and unsurprisingly, Orange Anus isn't the leader to unite us again. He divides by his very nature, and I think doesn't even truly understand the meaning of peace anyways. He foments discord, and gives support to White Nationalists and idiots like the Proud Boys that relish the violence. For every 1 person that shows up, there are 10 that were thinking about it, and probably just a moment or two away from joining a side.
The issues that divide us are irreconcilable differences. I will never consent to concentration camps for children, where they are psychologically tortured, and apparently the other side's response is a gleeful "Womp Womp!" to the extreme pain of mothers and children. That's just one issue, and I would like to say the rest are identity politics bullshit with the "Left" that can be dismissed as crazy, but they are not.
Add enough of these differences, no hope, no movement towards civility, bad economy (it's not good for the Middle Class), and you have what foments a civil war. I wish I could remember, but there was a conservative speaker in the group saying the only other time in history that was comparable, were the 10 years before the civil war. Point being, both sides of the aisle are foaming at the mouth for it.
No. No sarcasm at all here Khallow. Most people are beginning to believe it, and you're original whining about "your society collapsing" is happening around you now. Good luck, and there is no sarcasm tag at the end of this. This society is broken at the most fundamental levels, and we passed the point of return sometime ago I fear.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by frojack on Tuesday July 03 2018, @01:34AM
We see it here on SN every time you post.
We don't put any stock in it either.
Should have occurred to you that those people are seething with the same rage you are. They've lied to you for years, yet you believe them now?
In case you haven't noticed (I'm sure you refuse to believe it), but the mid course correction to the series of self serving corrupt and obsequious political administrations has already been elected. And he's going to win again in 2020. With a bigger margin. Even Michael Moore sees that.
He may not have the smooth elegance of the guy who pulled the rug over your eyes for the last 8 years, but sometimes you need a patriot instead of diplomat.
Even those people who "Ran On Rage" are seeing the light. [chicagotribune.com]
Its time for you to work on your rage. Before it kills you.
But I suspect my concern for your health will just trigger another episode. It always seems to do that.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday July 03 2018, @05:56PM (1 child)
It was Rasmussen (which uses a very questionable methodology) and it was 'only' 31%.
Poll: Almost a third of US voters think a second civil war is coming soon [usatoday.com]
So it's more like 31% of old Republicans believe this.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday July 06 2018, @11:48AM
Republicans were 32% actually. Democrats were 37%. Unaffiliated voters were at 26%.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday July 05 2018, @04:25AM (4 children)
No, just a whole lot of stupidity.
31% is a bit shy of "most". And if one actually looks at the history of civil wars rather than take a single poll out of context (would you ever have paid attention to conservative-oriented Rasmussen, if it didn't confirm your bias?), one finds a history of blood and conflict missing from the present.
You call that uncivil? You call that a bad economy (the upper classes grew more than the lower classes did)? The actual Civil War had some pretty crazy bullshit, such as a political compromise that encouraged paramilitary fighting. If you don't really want a civil war, then maybe you should pay attention what caused the previous one.
(Score: 2) by edIII on Thursday July 05 2018, @06:35PM (3 children)
Have you noticed I was doing my best to be civil with you? Perhaps I don't want one, and civility begins here. It's not stupidity at this point, and if you want to throw that around, there is plenty of it on all sides. Of course, I do realize who has been most uncivil, and I'm trying.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday July 06 2018, @12:07PM (2 children)
If you really are interested in being civil, you can do better than your best.
Psychology is a weird thing. You might think you don't want conflict, revolution, or whatnot. Yet what do we see of SN subjects that engages you? Again and again, this is where you gravitate. And how much do you think about avoiding such conflict and understanding the issues that drive those conflicts?
The oxygen for these movements could have been removed long ago with sensible immigration and economic policy. Not all differences need to be reconciled. But when differences are intentionally cultivated, you get permanent conflict.
Similarly, any sort of understanding would have helped. Too often, any sort of understanding of other peoples' agendas or interests is considered agreement with it. This sort of marginalizing behavior does more to create division than the irreconcilable differences do. Too often, I point out some issue that the other side (be it white nationalists, Islamicists, or other unpopular groups) happens to be concerned about, and a post starts with "So what you think is" and then devolves into a complete straw man.
Which, let us note, is not much [foxnews.com] of a beginning. Four people got arrested and there were multiple assaults. How does that compare to a routine sports game?
(Score: 2) by edIII on Friday July 06 2018, @07:27PM (1 child)
I will endeavour to do better, and I appreciate your comments.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday July 07 2018, @01:33AM
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @09:55PM (19 children)
The civil war rhetoric is quite new, the last month or two maybe. Perhaps more looney fringe people have been going on about it, but then again you're prepping to live in a south american jungle sooooo.... yeahhhhhh.....
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday July 02 2018, @10:06PM (10 children)
It just means someone published a book or wrote an influential op ed. Doesn't mean a thing in the absence of blood in the street.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @10:50PM (2 children)
In my original timeline, the riots began in late August this year.
Divergence can cause small changes between timelines that otherwise present larger features leading to convergence in a Stein's gate.
President Hillary Clinton will be remembered for the FEMA concentration camps. President Trump may be remembered for the ICE concentration camps. The larger features are the ruling class' attempts to resolve the inherent contradictions of the system that gave them their aristocracy. They will try anything and everything, even reducing every major city to irradiated ruins, to retain that power.
Unless
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday July 05 2018, @04:18AM (1 child)
Whatever.
it just doesn't happen that way, eh?
(Score: 2) by takyon on Thursday July 05 2018, @04:25AM
You stumbled into the weird Steins;Gate [wikipedia.org]/John Titor [wikipedia.org] fan.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 5, Interesting) by hemocyanin on Monday July 02 2018, @11:11PM (2 children)
Chris Hedges has some interesting comments on how quickly things can can change:
(Score: 3, Disagree) by frojack on Tuesday July 03 2018, @02:06AM
There's been a Chris Hedges or three around every decade.
Come on for christ sake, read a little history.
Thomas Malthus ring any bells?
Aldous Huxley maybe?
Al Gore?
https://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/18/science/18tier.html [nytimes.com]
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday July 05 2018, @05:00AM
(Score: 2) by edIII on Monday July 02 2018, @11:45PM (2 children)
Actually, if you will note in my response to you, violence is here, and this was not an op-ed, but a group of people talking. Conservatives and Liberals on the panel both agreeing to that sentiment. No real push back that the idea was crazy, but seriously discussed.
Homeless person saying the world is ending is one thing, a major newspaper putting Civil War on the front of it is another. One deserves more concern.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 03 2018, @04:02PM
I've been expecting inevitable chaos for some time.
Though, realisically, a civil war may not be able to materialize. That's because we have mixed ideologies to the point that distinct groups don't really form. So you will have the neighbor v.s. neighbor chaos that will be total chaos rather than an organized war. Or maybe organization will happen, with the internet, it's possible.
It would be really nice if we could provide more independence and freedom. You might not agree with everyone else's way of living, but you're much less likely to get into a fight with someone if you don't try to force them to do what you think is the "right" thing.
That being said, corporations can exert too much power and should be treated differently. We can curtail the power of mega-corporations by enacting more fair contract consent laws, prohibiting arbitration agreements, eliminating trade secrets laws, making NDAs illegal, reducing copyright duration, restricting indemity agreements, prohibitng corporate ownership of corporations, etc.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday July 05 2018, @04:43AM
Not really. There's still high drama over a single death last year.
Not at all. The latter has no more likelihood or interest in being right than the former.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Tuesday July 03 2018, @01:45AM
Its merely the talking point of the week by the smoking ruin of the Democratic party.
When the same phrase is use on all the left media sites as if on queue, you know who got the memo.
SCOTUS says President DOES have the authority to stop immigration from certain countries. (Several Circuit court judges bitch-slapped in the process). Next talking point - Hurry!!
Lets Eliminate ICE.!!!
SCOTUS says you don't have to suppress your religion to bake a cake for Gays? Next talking point - Hurry.
Someone go kick Sanders out of a public restaurant.
Next few weeks? Character Assignation on a grand scale regardless of WHO gets Nominated.
So predictable. So ineffective. So childish.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by edIII on Monday July 02 2018, @11:42PM (7 children)
No, these are mainstream conservative, liberal, libertarian, .etc people that are saying it. Looney fringe people though still seem to get time on Fox :)
What's wrong with a South American jungle? I'm going there because of all the pluses, not the minuses. It's not indicative of insanity, but intelligent planning for retirement.
#1 is insanely valuable. We get to concentrate all of our energy expenditures into the refrigeration systems for the food, and waste none of it on heating and cooling our little houses. In fact, it's in the Japanese style where normally everything is open air.
#2 & #3 have an actual monetary value to it. Non-GMO, organic, and grown in the Andes. Thousands of dollars per month in good fruits and vegetables, and the beginnings of a kick-ass orchard. In order to afford that in the US, I would need a 6 figure salary. Down there, I can be a relative poor person on Social Security and live some rich pampered c-suite. Not to mention, the sale of the coffee and vegetables finances all of our very modest monthly costs.
#4 Definite value to that. You cannot undervalue a good and clean water supply. FFS, they charge like $15/day for water in Northern California. Every fucking bottle at least $1.99. That's for the privilege of sucking down OUR FUCKING WATER from our OWN FORESTS that Nestle apparently thinks they're entitled to plunder. So yeah, water is a very critical component.
#5 is just a plain delight.
#7 is also very nice. Being able to pay a penny for medicine you pay $100 for? Fucking Priceless :D
So, is my idea of living out the rest of my life there really that insane? Think not. Enjoy surviving in suburban America where the inflation in rent prices can be an order of magnitude greater than increases in wages :P
Ohhhh, and I will still have Internet! Hopefully, I will have enough free time at the point to help with coding Soylent with TMB :)
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 2) by bobthecimmerian on Tuesday July 03 2018, @01:07PM (4 children)
And if you get appendicitis? An abscessed tooth? Lupus? Diabetes? (Many of the people that develop adult-onset diabetes get it because of bad eating habits or a sedentary lifestyle or both, but some people just have unlucky genetics and will develop the disease no matter what they do.) Some kind of infection? Then what?
My parents lived almost their whole life in a rural part of the US. But as they got into their 60s and developed age-related ailments they had to move closer to major cities for the first time in their lives in order to get decent care. My wife's parents moved to a rural area after they retired, and they're in their late 70s and doing fine. So it can work. But they've simply been lucky, there are a host of medical problems they could develop that would require hours of travel for every medical appointment.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by edIII on Tuesday July 03 2018, @05:27PM (3 children)
You mean afford medical in the future, in the USA? What are you smoking?! LOL. If I stayed up here, we would be poor as fuck, because rents keep going up faster than wages. Medical is unaffordable NOW. Anything serious happens, and BOOM, half a million in medical debt.
You make concessions. Being 15 minutes from a major hospital is one them. I would rather be free, living like a c-suite emperor in an island paradise, than a wage slave at 75 in the USA, in debt, and still requiring help with medical coverage that mandates I be poor to receive it.
The US can burn in hell.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 2) by bobthecimmerian on Tuesday July 03 2018, @07:33PM (2 children)
I can understand wanting to leave, for the reasons you state. But I would try to head to Denmark, Finland, Germany, Japan, South Korea... maybe not as beautiful as South America, but your medical options are better.
(Score: 2) by edIII on Tuesday July 03 2018, @08:00PM (1 child)
Too much money. I'm not rich as fuck, so Denmark and Finland are out. Germany isn't the place I want to be right now with all the Syrian refugee crap going on there. It's moving back towards fascism. Japan is an interesting consideration, but again, not enough money to purchase land and buildings we would want. South Korea has one hell of a shitty neighbor :)
You seem to be very concerned over medical, but the truth is, unless you're very very rich in the US, you don't get it. The poor don't get medical treatment, but just enough to get them stabilized and out the door, and back to being good production units. Or worse, back to your section 8 housing to continue sucking down benefits with no hope of ever getting better, no hope of getting off the "government tit". Believe me, I know. You get cancer? Hospice. None of this shit where they try to get you into trials, contact a friend at John Hopkins, new expensive treatments. Palliative care is all you get. The Middle Class in this country barely receive enough medical, and we are stuck in the mid 30's for which country is numero uno in health care. Poor? Might as well be on the streets in New Delhi, shitting in them.
You left out one country though quite critical to this discussion; Cuba. Cuba has an amazing medical system for a country under a double embargo. Amazing to the extent the WHO stands up for them as a medical community we can learn from. They even have a diabetes drug that saves the feet, whereas in the US, chop chop. Watch the Michael Moore documentary at the end and you see a lady get years worth of medication for the price of one treatment in the US.
For the price of one Ecuadorian passport, a trip, I can be in Cuba for medical tourism. The costs there are actually quite affordable. Cuba still is an option for me too as far as permanent residence. I can do good telco work there, and they would provide me with actual medical care. It's amazing how cheap it can get when there are not rich fuckers demanding their pound of flesh for everything, including breathing air in a fucking hospital room.
In the end, I would rather live with 19th century medical, then to live in 21st century USA. If I defect to Cuba, I get the best of all worlds. Sucking down authentic Mojitos, dancing with Cuban women, and enjoying medical care comparable to the US.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 2) by bobthecimmerian on Wednesday July 04 2018, @02:07AM
I don't want to defend the status quo for health care and health insurance costs. The situation is unforgivable. But for example my parents are in their early 60s and spent the last year and a half unemployed and on Medicaid in Pennsylvania. My mother has an autoimmune disorder that attacks lung function, and she was seen by specialists in Temple University Hospital, Thomas Jefferson University Hospital, and UPenn Hospital and they even started the preparation process for lung transplants. All while on Medicaid.
That's somewhat better than being homeless in New Delhi.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Tuesday July 03 2018, @03:44PM (1 child)
I'm no fan of our current government, but at least here they're not likely to be involved when you get kidnapped and ransomed by druglords. Or is that mostly in Central America, not South?
Remember that when you get bitten/eaten by something because you're living in the jungle...
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by edIII on Tuesday July 03 2018, @05:23PM
LOL. It's not that scary. We also have three Rottweilers on the property. Largest animal that comes around is a Puma, and I don't recall anyone saying they've seen a Jaguar. There are about 12 local people that live in the mountain valley with us. All friendly people too, and the kids love taking lemons off our trees. It's just very remote.
One of the locals, that's a family friend too, lives with us. Certified nurse, and we are a small substation for medical. So if I got bit, I would walk a couple hundred feet, sit down on a bench, and wait to be treated :)
Honestly, I'm more worried about mountain lions in Northern California.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @10:36PM
Why do you think so? Any war requires:
This is a partial list of requirements for a war that can be called a war. (Say, the fight is one-sided, then it lasts a day, then the goals are achieved.) How many of those requirements are met today?
(Score: 5, Interesting) by crafoo on Monday July 02 2018, @10:39PM (2 children)
[quote]but I think the majority of Americans fear a civil war within 5 years.[/quote]
Nope. Not going to happen. The last generation or two capable of free thought and self-sufficiency will die off in impotent, isolated rage. Everyone else has been breed and raised to accept debt-slavery, submit to authority, and obey without question.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @11:16PM
There is also the trick that capable and self-sufficient people in the USA often raise in the ranks and no longer fume at the *. Even if not, they are free to move elsewhere, they will be ok there just by definition.
(Score: 2) by bobthecimmerian on Tuesday July 03 2018, @01:17PM
The new generation has plenty of impotent, isolated rage. Hence the school shootings, incel attacks, and marked increases in suicides and drug overdose deaths.
But I'm not ready to go to war. Maybe I should be, but I'm not. Instead, I'm getting involved. I'm in my 40s, and for my whole life to this point the extent of my participation in politics and policy was voting in general elections. Now I'm getting my hands dirty - registering with a party so I can vote in a primary election (my state is one of the ones that require that), attending protests, calling my representatives, volunteering at events and fundraising. And while I spent the last fifteen years aware that the clothes I bought were made by kids in Bangladesh, Amazon and Walmart treat their employees like dogs, and so forth, now I'm actually changing my shopping habits. And by itself all that means exactly nothing. But sitting around feeling powerless and angry is exactly what the people who benefit from the status quo want. If we all get off our asses - whether to vote, shop differently, or go to war... then the situation will change. At the least, I'll die knowing that I tried instead of wondering what I could have done.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @11:10PM (2 children)
Majority of Americans believe in an all powerful imaginary friend and that their government is hiding little green men.
Civil wars happen when the upper class's interests diverge to the point of no return. If Trump actually went and canceled the F-35 or NASA big-rocket-whatever-its called-program, Lockheed and investors would have cooked a civil war. But a few wage-slaves getting boot-stamped by the state is nothing new or particularly aggravating to the wealthy.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by bob_super on Monday July 02 2018, @11:23PM (1 child)
On one hand, revolutions happen when enough people have nothing to lose. Panem & circenses is currently working, with a critical mass of people still buying the "it would be worse for you" narrative.
On the other hand, as the white majority is feeling more and more emboldened to push back the rights, and degrade the life, of minorities, $bad_stuff could start happening. Let's not forget that the security forces, military or security guards (less for the cops) tend to be a place where minorities find employment...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 03 2018, @07:28AM
Nope. That's just an unsupported quantitative measure. Rome and the Greek cities had a huge free-citizen to slave ratio and rebellions weren't common enough to upset the system. The French revolution was instigated by a few rich folks that felt threatened by the nobility. The American revolution and civil war followed the French example both in format and circumstances. What needs to happen for a revolution is that someone in power will have nothing to lose AND that's there enough mid-lower classes individuals that are willing to fight under that someone.
And that's doubly so for modernity with standing armies and whatnot. Nowadays, you REALLY can't rebel unless you have not just a token upper class figure in your ranks, but a whole faction of upper class rebels. Otherwise, getting generals and logistics just isn't going to happen.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 03 2018, @08:42AM
At least for a short while. The fauna there is pretty hungry, like, all the time.
(Score: 4, Funny) by rylyeh on Tuesday July 03 2018, @04:12AM (1 child)
The idea of a civil war requires that most people in the country are capable of hard work! Discuss? 💩
"a vast crenulate shell wherein rode the grey and awful form of primal Nodens, Lord of the Great Abyss."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 03 2018, @08:44AM
Rioting? Not that much.
(Score: 2) by rylyeh on Tuesday July 03 2018, @04:19AM
I'd like to see the vermicious knids make this absurdity about war come true! Perhaps the Sky Hooks will save you! Vote!
"a vast crenulate shell wherein rode the grey and awful form of primal Nodens, Lord of the Great Abyss."