A woman who lived a short distance from where Sergei and Yulia Skripal were poisoned with the Novichok nerve agent has died. Prime Minister Theresa May is "appalled and shocked" by the death:
Police have launched a murder inquiry after a woman exposed to nerve agent Novichok in Wiltshire died. Dawn Sturgess, 44, died in hospital on Sunday evening after falling critically ill on 30 June. Charlie Rowley, 45, who was also exposed to the nerve agent in Amesbury, remains critically ill in hospital.
[...] Officers are still trying to work out how Ms Sturgess and Mr Rowley were exposed to the nerve agent although tests have confirmed they touched a contaminated item with their hands.
[...] Mrs May sent her "thoughts and condolences" and said officials are "working urgently to establish the facts". She said: "The government is committed to providing full support to the local community as it deals with this tragedy." British diplomat Julian King, the European Commissioner responsible for the EU's security union, said: "Those behind this are murderers."
[...] The working hypothesis is that the pair became contaminated after touching a poison container left over from the March attack on Sergei and Yulia Skripal. The death of Dawn Sturgess, a British citizen on British soil, now changes the investigation to a murder inquiry, with all the diplomatic and security ramifications that carries. Britain has been blaming Moscow for the original attack in March, saying there is no plausible alternative to the Kremlin having ordered the assassination attempt. Russia has denied any involvement, suggesting instead this was the action of a weak British government looking to undermine the success of the current World Cup being hosted by Russia.
Here's something from the other side.
Previously: Former Russian Spy Exposed to "Unknown Substance" in Salisbury, England
Use of Nerve Agent Confirmed in Skripal Assassination Attempt
UK Gives Russia Until Midnight to Explain Use of Novichok Nerve Agent
Related Stories
A retired Russian military intelligence officer has fallen ill in England after exposure to an unknown substance. Does that sound familiar?
A man identified by local news reports as a retired Russian military intelligence officer who once spied for Britain is critically ill at a British hospital, and the authorities were investigating his "exposure to an unknown substance."
According to several reports, the man, found unconscious on a bench in the city of Salisbury, is Sergei V. Skripal, 66. He was once jailed by Moscow, then settled in Britain after an exchange of spies between the United States and Russia in 2010.
The British police have not publicly identified the man in the hospital or a 33-year-old woman who fell sick with him at a shopping mall called the Maltings.
The authorities have, however, released enough detail about what they called a "major incident" to draw some comparisons, however premature, to the case of Alexander V. Litvinenko, a former Russian spy who was poisoned in London in 2006.
Police Say Nerve Agent Was Used in Attempt to Kill Sergei Skripal
Police say that they have identified a specific nerve agent as being used in an attempt to kill a Russian who once spied for the UK. They have not named the nerve agent that was used. Officers who responded to the scene have also been hospitalized:
A nerve agent was used to try to murder a former Russian spy and his daughter, police have said. Sergei and Yulia Skripal were found unconscious in Salisbury on Sunday afternoon and remain critically ill. A police officer who was the first to attend the scene is now in a serious condition in hospital, Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley said.
[...] Mr Rowley, head of Counter Terrorism Policing, said government scientists had identified the agent used, but would not make that information public at this stage. "This is being treated as a major incident involving attempted murder, by administration of a nerve agent," he said. "Having established that a nerve agent is the cause of the symptoms... I can also confirm that we believe that the two people who became unwell were targeted specifically."
[...] Two other police officers who attended the scene were treated in hospital for minor symptoms, before they were given the all clear. It is understood their symptoms included itchy eyes and wheezing.
The UK says that a Soviet-developed Novichok nerve agent was used against Sergei Skripal, his daughter, and bystanders, and has given Russia "until midnight tonight" to explain how it came to be used:
British Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson said Tuesday that Russia has "until midnight tonight" to explain how a lethal Novichok nerve agent that was developed in Russia came to be used on U.K. soil. Johnson said Britain is preparing to take "commensurate but robust" action.
Reiterating British Prime Minister Theresa May's statement that it was "highly likely" Russia was to blame for the poisoning of former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter, Yulia, Johnson said, "the use of this nerve agent would represent the first use of nerve agents on the continent of Europe since the Second World War."
Meanwhile, police are probing the death of a Russian exile living in London:
Nikolai Glushkov, a Russian exile who was a close friend of a noted critic of President Vladimir Putin, has died from an "unexplained" cause in London, police say. The Metropolitan Police says that its counter-terrorism unit is handling the case "because of associations that the man is believed to have had."
Glushkov, 68, was a close friend of former Russian oligarch Boris Berezovsky, a prominent critic of the Kremlin who was found dead in 2013. At the time, an inquiry found he had hanged himself — but Glushkov publicly disputed the idea that his friend and former business ally would have killed himself.
As British media began reporting Glushkov's death, the police issued a statement saying, "An investigation is underway following the death of a man in his 60s in Kingston borough."
Previously: Former Russian Spy Exposed to "Unknown Substance" in Salisbury, England
Use of Nerve Agent Confirmed in Skripal Assassination Attempt
(Score: 1, Interesting) by realDonaldTrump on Monday July 09 2018, @09:50AM (18 children)
If you think about it, very easy to guess. They make Nerve Gas. And this #Novichok [twitter.com] they're having big problems with -- which, by the way, you always hear about it like it's one thing, it's not, it's many different things, different chemicals. It's like Nerve Gas. Only it's not gas, it's dust. It's Nerve Dust. So many people dieing, right? Where's the Law Enforcement on that one? Where's the arrests? Where's the executions? They say, "oh, Russia, Russia!" They sent the Russian diplomats home. And Russia sent the British diplomats home. Surprising nobody. I mean, you could see that one coming a mile away. No more diplomats. But there was more Novichok and this lady died.
And look when it happened. Right in the middle of the World Cup. Which is being hosted by Russia. And the Russian team, they started at the VERY BOTTOM. They were considered the absolute worst. But they made it to the quarter-finals, they lost to Croatia. Trust me, there's no shame in that. And while Russia is putting on a tremendous show, while the Russian team is playing tremendously, Russia somehow poisons this lady that nobody ever heard of? Doesn't make sense. But maybe somebody wanted to take the attention off the World Cup. And make Russia look like the bad guys. So he puts out this poison. Makes a lot more sense. Or maybe they just lost track of the stuff. They built a Nerve Gas Research Facility and folks start dieing near it. And Theresa May acts all "shocked." It's not shocking, it's exactly what you'd expect. Think about it! rt.com/uk/422252-porton-down-lab-chemical-skripal [rt.com]
I don't think it was terrorists. But I'll tell you, if it was terrorists, they need to get much tougher. Send out extra cops. The Law Enforcement. In case something happens. Because something happened a couple of times. Where are the arrests? Where are the executions? They're VERY WEAK about the supposed terrorists. In Japan they got very tough. And they did a mass execution, they killed 7 guys from the Sarin cult. Aum Shinrikyo. The gas killing animals that put the Sarin in the Subway. And they waited 23 years, that wasn't great. But at least they did the death penalty. And the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, you know what they said. I don't have to tell you, you can guess this one. They said they "regret" it. Incredible! It's not incredible, it's what they do. But it's very sad. 13 people killed. And thousands of people with their health ruined for life. It's been 23 years, they're still having problems, can we say it's for life? Why not, right? But the UN "regrets" that the killers finally got killed. I say congratulations Japan, very smart move!!!
(Score: 2, Interesting) by realDonaldTrump on Monday July 09 2018, @10:06AM
(cont) By the way, look up Ronald Maddison. Look at what happened to RONALD GEORGE MADDISON of the RAF. Young guy, good looking guy, had a lot going for him. Except, unfortunately, he was British. And for that they killed him. They tortured him and killed him with Sarin. They wanted to make sure their Sarin worked. Believe me, it worked beautifully. Very painful death. At the hands of the British, otherwise known as Gas Killing Animals!!!!
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @01:15PM (11 children)
First post modded redundant?
(Score: 2, Troll) by realDonaldTrump on Monday July 09 2018, @01:35PM
British intelligence, they call it intelligence. But it's very dumb. MI5, MI6, GCHQ & JIC. And possibly some we don't know about. The British kill their own people. They killed RONALD GEORGE MADDISON and many more. So many in Australia. Mostly the blacks, frankly. While they perfected their Weapons of Mass Destruction so they can go to war with Russia. So they can kill tens of millions of people in Russia. With the nuclear, with the bacteria, with the chemicals. Now we have people getting sick, people dieing from the chemicals, very close to Porton Down where they make the chemicals. And they hate it when I tweet about that!!
(Score: 4, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Monday July 09 2018, @03:32PM (1 child)
Well I personally like having our own version of the president to yell at.
But, every single post is shtick. I can see that being redundant to some folks...
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 10 2018, @03:38PM
Bet you couldn't tell the diff between realDonaldTrump and real Donald Trump. Some shtick, huh?
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @05:07PM (7 children)
*Dramatic Music Plays*
In a world where Takyon posts an article that will be critical of the Russians, one man sits down at his computer with a coffee to save the republic. Deathmoney is a simple communist man looking to do nothing more than point out how Russians are trying to destroy the world.
But on this day.
*Don Don*
Something was wrong.
*Music pitch gets higher*
With his eyes getting red from rage and spitting coffee all over his keyboard he noticed.
The first post was by TheRealDonaldTrump
Our defender of the republic, a good communist fellow from perhaps Alaska, knew what he had to do.
He modded that Nazi, as redundant
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @06:04PM (6 children)
Must be Stalinist. (Or maybe if the quick DuckDuck search I did indicates, just DSA, which is pseudo-left [but good enough for me given the alternatives tbh :/ ].) The Trotskyists don't buy this Novichok crap and suspect that MI6 was involved in the Skripals. I don't think wswswswsws has published anything about this new incident (may have to check the archives, since they're usually pretty on top of things), but personally I don't believe it.
Maybe this time it's actually Novichok (it's not a secret and can be made, including possibly right in London). Who knows. The fact that the Skripals survived means it probably wasn't, and UK won't let international investigators take a look. Maybe there actually was some other poison involved and this person was indeed accidentally exposed. It's all very suspicious, and the media has done a shit job of presenting the case that this is a giant Russian conspiracy.
There are lizard people ancient aliens conspiracies that make more sense than this Russia shit. I've read Weather War conspiracy theories with more supporting evidence.
None of this shit can be trusted. It's the elites trying to Gish gallop us straight for World War 3. Our @realDonaldTrump may be the stopped watch effect (didn't read his whole comment, sometimes they're amusing, other times it's just so much blah).
(Score: 0, Troll) by Sulla on Monday July 09 2018, @06:27PM (5 children)
What I have found interesting about living in the age of Trump when it comes to foreign policy is that he appears to be the first president in a long time who has not made money off of the traditional military industrial complex. The majority of American politicians will make money from conflict between the US and Russia due to weapons sales/research/etc. Trump makes his money on trade, real estate, and hotels.. Trump's ability to make money is hampered by excessive foreign conflict and he stands to make more money if everything gets less hostile. Weird having a president who has personal financial gain to make from peace.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @07:12PM
From peace abroad and at home. Or as the useful idiots on the loony left say, "what a fascist"!
(Score: 5, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Monday July 09 2018, @07:27PM (3 children)
he appears to be the first president in a long time who has not made money off of the traditional military industrial complex.
All previous presidents divested themselves from all investments to prevent that exact conflict of interests. Trump is the first one to NOT do so.
Your post is the exact opposite of reality.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Sulla on Monday July 09 2018, @07:52PM (1 child)
So Trump didn't divest from investments that would benefit from Peace? Sounds good to me!
Cheney's divestment from Halliburton sure helped us avoid that fiasco. If Bush had not divested from oil we might have gone to war in Iraq. If Hillary stopped kept taking speaking fees and continued their foundations foreign donations we might have sold uranium to our Russian enemies. If Biden's son hadn't quit his job at the top Ukrainian oil firm we might have had increasing border conflict between Nato and Russia. If the Bush and Clinton families hadn't divested from their interests in Saudi oil we might have avoided our involvement in Syria to get a pipeline build by our terms through Syria.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 10 2018, @03:40PM
So we need more conflicts of interest. Huh? What a good idea!
(Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Wednesday July 11 2018, @12:59PM
In June 2016, I sold all my stocks. Because I felt I was very much going to be winning. And I would have a tremendous, tremendous conflict of interest owning all of these different companies. I don't think for me to be owning stocks when I'm making deals for this country that maybe will affect one company positively and one company negatively -- I just felt it was a conflict.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday July 09 2018, @05:30PM (2 children)
You correlate the time of poisoning with World Cup and not your upcoming meeting with Putin on July 16 in Helsinki [vox.com]? The one that make sad so many in the Washington swamp?
You must be less intelligent than even CIA and MI6 together.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Monday July 09 2018, @08:34PM (1 child)
So many folks tell me the world revolves around me. They're right! And there's not much that can come between me and President Putin. But I have other trips coming up. I'm going to Brussels for another of those NATO meetings. VERY BORING. And I'm coming to London. Very short visit but I'll see the Queen. Theresa May, if I have time. And I was hoping to meet Boris Johnson, he's a huge fan. And I love what he did with the Brexit. But unfortunately he just resigned...........possibly we'll work something out. I wonder if he'd like a job in the White House!!
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 10 2018, @03:45PM
Job at the Whitehouse might not fly with the "folks" back home.
https://www.angloinfo.com/blogs/global/us-tax/new-record-over-5400-renounce-us-including-boris-johnson/ [angloinfo.com]
(Score: 4, Funny) by HiThere on Monday July 09 2018, @06:27PM (1 child)
WRT realdonaldtrump, the parent poster:
Unfortunately, you lie so often I can't believe you. You may be attempting to tell the truth, or you may just be lying more subtly than usual.
This post, and my reaction to it, is starting to cause me to consider automatically moderating anything you post as troll, redundant, or overrated without reading it. The proportion of lies in your posting is so high that I can't tell when you aren't lying. I have a suspicion that this time you were either telling the truth, or mainly telling the truth, but I can't trust it. You've fallen into that section of the Bayesian probability where nothing that you say can be considered relevant.
Some people can be depended upon to lie, and they can provide useful information. (Not very useful, as there's lots of different ways that a statement can be false, but at least some section of the area under discussion can be eliminated.) You, however, are just unreliable.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:45PM
I don't know what's going on. And I don't think anyone really knows. Except the killers. But there's a theory that the poison came from Porton Down. I think it's an interesting theory. And I made a link -- not easy to do -- to RT. Which tells all about Porton Down. Look, even the Fake News BBC said that there's the theory that it came from Porton Down. They don't say much about it, it's amazing they said anything. Because their reporters & editors might wake up dead if they say too much. But possibly you don't want to read the BBC Fake News article. Any more than you want to read my tweets. Sad!
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @10:18AM (16 children)
Initially, they suspected that these people had been poisoned by a bad batch of illegal drugs, had that been the case, would May still have sent her "thoughts and condolences" and would Mr King be blustering about 'murderers'?
The way the TV coverage of this has 'developed ' has been 'interesting' to say the least, Herr Goebbels would have been proud of both sides efforts, particularly that of the Biased Bullshitting Cockwombles..
(Score: 2, Troll) by realDonaldTrump on Monday July 09 2018, @10:42AM
We're beginning to find out what they did in the 50s and 60s. A little bit about the TERRIBLE things they did back then. And possibly in many years we'll find out about the things they're doing now. Those of us that are still alive. If any of us are still alive. They have the Official Secrets Act, they come down very hard on leakers. But we have WikiLeaks. Come on, WikiLeaks!!!! youtu.be/UAKgPdkkiCg [youtu.be]
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @11:15AM (9 children)
aha, found the paid (russian) troll
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @12:00PM (3 children)
I wish! (I could do with some extra money at present...)
But sorry to disappoint, I find their propaganda spin on this (as displayed on RT) to be just as risible and amusing as that of the BBC. As I'm suffering from Insomnia, I've been watching both sides 'refine' their coverage as the hours pass to fit the message that their political masters want put out there, the BBC gets more of my 'ire' as there's a misguided idea out there that, unlike RT, Fox et al, they tell the unvarnished truth. Hah bloody hah.
(Score: 2, Disagree) by DeathMonkey on Monday July 09 2018, @03:37PM (2 children)
Or, y'know, maybe the Beeb is reporting more information as they get it...
Nah, fuck that Occam guy!
(Score: 1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @05:54PM (1 child)
Err no, it's like them showing a clip featuring an eyewitness at something like 2:15am where he describes the behaviour of one of the two people poisoned, stating something which doesn't quite 'square' with the later/current narrative, a clip which they've not shown since in the subsequent hours of coverage I've watched..it seems to have disappeared completely (believe me, I've been trawling the interwibblez looking for it..or anyone else interviewing this character).
This isn't reporting more information as they get it, this is failing to report anything which doesn't 'square' with the information they're getting fed by the usual government controlled sources, you will know by now that there are at least two DSMA Notices out there relating to the Skripal side of this game, which basically 'encourages' them to run their stories by the spooks if/before they publish/broadcast..
Aye, the thing about him and his famous observation is that he's royally fucked when the deck's been stacked before he starts with his hypothesising...sure, it may apply for some scenarios, but his razor certainly doesn't cut it all the time, especially when applied to a scenario where there's intense political machinations going on.
The problem I have with *all* news reporting is that it's all, for given values of the word, bogus, tailored to fit the perceptions that the broadcasters have of their target 'audience'. The big problem I have with the BBC's news coverage is that the BBC is held up as being some sort of 'Paragon of Truth' , I know you shouldn't point to Wikipedia as a source, but look at this page [wikipedia.org] for some initial pointers as to why it isn't.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 10 2018, @05:17PM
OMG I saw a video at 3am and it was kind of odd and I was stoned and could see thru the BS news and now I can't find it. PROOF!!/!?11iiIIIiIi!!!1|||\\
(Score: 1) by Sulla on Monday July 09 2018, @05:18PM (4 children)
Russian agents are correctly identified with [[[]]] not ().
It is useful when calling out the longterm anti-American Russian agents like [[[John Bolton]]].
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday July 09 2018, @07:55PM (3 children)
How can you tell Bolton's a Russian agent? He looks like a carpenter from Alabama.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1) by Sulla on Monday July 09 2018, @08:38PM (2 children)
He is being friendly with the Russians, clearly he is on the take. Up until now I assumed [[[John Bolton]]] was just an extreme pro-American neocon that was fully America-first and just didn't give a shit about the rest of the world because he believed America is the best, but because he was on friendly terms with Russia it is clear he is an agent and has probably always been an agent. Why else would [[[Drumphf]]] send an ultra-neocon to go and serve his master [[[Putin]]] unless that person has always been pro-Russian?
Think about it. [[[John Bolton]]] used to go on [[[Red]]]eye on Fox News. [[[Bolton]]] has a mustache that is oddly reminiscent of a one [[[Joseph Stalin]]].
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday July 09 2018, @09:30PM (1 child)
This isn't a very good troll, Sulla :/ I get what you're trying to do, but it's a little too obvious.
...and on the flip side, it's actually much truer than you think, in an indirect way: this administrations complete and utter blind nationalistic idiocy is giving Russia *exactly* what they want. Putin must be pissing himself laughing every night.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 10 2018, @05:20PM
Sanctions on Russia.
If you can't remove them, put tariffs on everyone else. Effectively, sanctions now removed.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Monday July 09 2018, @03:35PM (4 children)
Initially, they suspected that these people had been poisoned by a bad batch of illegal drugs...
Yeah, turns out a nerve agent from the 80's wasn't their first hypothesis.
...that been the case, would May still have sent her "thoughts and condolences" and would Mr King be blustering about 'murderers'?
If it hadn't been murder would they be talking about murder? No, probably not...
(Score: 3, Funny) by bob_super on Monday July 09 2018, @05:25PM (3 children)
How dare you seem to question AC's implied assertion that a military-grade nerve agent only ever known manufactured by a hostile country, is just about the same as recreational hard drugs !
Have you no shame, or do you just have woefully limited dealers in your area ?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @05:45PM (2 children)
How are you defining "hostile countries"? Edgewood [wikipedia.org] submitted a mass spectrometry profile for A-234 to NIST98. Additionally the non-ethyl variant has been manufactured in Iran and studied in the Czech Republic.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Monday July 09 2018, @05:53PM (1 child)
> How are you defining "hostile countries"?
This is England... Anything outside of the Commonwealth is Downright Hostile, and they don't quite trust most of those Commonwealth buggers either.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @06:00PM
Commonwealth?, this is Southern England we're talking about here, anything North of the Watford Gap is dangerous and hostile territory..
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @10:32AM (7 children)
Were Sturgess and Rowley poisoned with Novichok so Russia could claim "These people were not double agents! Why would we poison these two? Someone else is doing this and they poisoned the Skripals, not us."
(Score: 0, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @10:36AM (4 children)
Your theory lacks enough lizard people from outer space to be believable.
Please extend the antennae on your tinfoil hat, further information incoming.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @10:53AM (3 children)
Two bits for your dismissle: first, I don't introduce the lizard people until slide #38 in the power point presentation (I need the pick-me-up after the 35 slides of historical images of nerve gas victims), and second, lizard people don't eat herring (not just red, but any color).
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday July 09 2018, @04:36PM (1 child)
I wonder how you know?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Funny) by bob_super on Monday July 09 2018, @05:27PM
The herring people told him, duh.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @07:42PM
Is that why Trump and Putin are meeting in Helsinki? Starve the lizards by reducing their diet to herring, rye, squeaky cheese, and vodka?
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Monday July 09 2018, @06:38PM (1 child)
An interesting question. If it were true, what evidence would you expect to find? How could it be falsified?
The thing is, one can always come up with lots of possible explanations for anything, but to estimate the probability it helps to answer those two questions.
Unfortunately, for most news stories, there is no way that they can be falsified by the average person without the expenditure of considerable effort. So they probably shouldn't be believed, but only considered as "well, it's a possibility, and some people assert it". Similarly for most news stories the only evidence that one would expect to find is evidence that there's been a news story, and that some people are spreading it. More grounds for being dubious.
Given this situation, I consider your assertion to be not much less plausible than the other news. You didn't invest much in creating it, but then you also don't have a paid staff of photographers. (I've been on the site of a couple of news events, and seen the way they carefully chose what to include and what to exclude, and that was before the editors clipped and framed the story for presentation. So I don't believe news film clips show what they're pretending to show.)
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @08:56PM
The only known source of Novichok is Mother Russia. Why go to all of the trouble to cook up Novichok when easier ways to frame Russia exist? And why poison these two? The Skripals make sense. As does the other double agent killed the same weekend that the Skripals were exposed to Novichok (but he was simply strangled, arguably more effective than Novichok).
Unless some cloak and dagger dirt finds its way to the surface, these two were either accidental victims or they were sacrificed to throw the scent off of the original Skripal attack.
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @10:33AM (1 child)
The timing of the attacks suggest the real culprits. Are we supposed to believe in Syrian gas attacks too? The face-saving report that the OPCW found nothing that will not be explained by common household cleaning goods. [opcw.org] The UK security services could benefit from chlorinated produces right now to clean their own house.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @03:56PM
Not surprised. The U.S. Deep State has a history of doing this. We need transparency into the actions of the CIA et al.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by zocalo on Monday July 09 2018, @11:05AM (14 children)
What are you afraid of, that whatever it is they touched is going to be found and turn out to essentially have "Made in Russia" printed on it?
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
(Score: 2, Informative) by realDonaldTrump on Monday July 09 2018, @11:47AM (12 children)
The reason they're not saying it's leftovers from the first poisoning, if you look at the Sputnik News story -- and possibly you didn't even look at it -- they say these chemicals don't last. They disintegrate. And I hear from many people, they're unstable. They don't keep. And the first poisoning, the Skripals (RIP!!!!), that was in March. 100 days before the second with the Sturgesses. It's a long time. And warm weather. For the British, people don't know this, it's their summer right now. Microsoft, they had big problems with their Data Center because it got too hot. So it's not exactly icebox conditions. And it's not even fridge conditions to keep everything fresh. To keep it PERFECTO. So it doesn't work so great to just say "oh, it's leftovers." Because the leftovers would be spoiled!!!
(Score: 4, Informative) by tonyPick on Monday July 09 2018, @12:35PM (11 children)
From Vladimir Uglyov, one of the men credited with inventing the “novichok” series of nerve agents [independent.co.uk]:
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @12:50PM (3 children)
> From Vladimir Uglyov
wait, is that a real name? A bad guy named Ugly(ov) is really stretching my credibility.
(Score: 3, Informative) by sorokin on Monday July 09 2018, @02:04PM (2 children)
> A bad guy named Ugly(ov) is really stretching my credibility.
This is Russian surname and one shouldn't assume any relation to English word "ugly". In Russian the surname Uglyov (Углёв) comes from the word Ugl' (угль) that translates to "coal" in English. -ov (-ов) is a common Russian surname ending.
(Score: 1) by Sulla on Monday July 09 2018, @05:25PM
Found the secret Russian. How absolutely dare you sir understand Russian naming convention.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 2) by Bot on Tuesday July 10 2018, @12:20PM
Have you forgotten that coal is the proverbial gift to bad kids? My AI hasn't.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by realDonaldTrump on Monday July 09 2018, @01:08PM (2 children)
You left out a little bit of his quote. And didn't tell us you left it out. Little but maybe important. Because it started with "Unlike some of my colleagues, I’ve always said that it is very stable." He has colleagues, they don't agree. No consensus!!!
(Score: 1) by Sulla on Monday July 09 2018, @05:27PM
Shhhh the left is in a hard bind on this one. They either have to trust a [[[Russian]]] or trust a different [[[Russian]]] so they just go with whatever one agrees with their goal of taking us back into the cold war.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Monday July 09 2018, @05:40PM
This FUD is so weak they're trying to convince us that Russia committed more crimes than we're currently accusing them of!
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @01:24PM (2 children)
Vil Mirzayanov literally wrote the book on it [moonofalabama.org] and it states the substance is unstable and has low resistance to moisture.
So it's a full strength, liquid form military nerve agent suspended in Vaseline. It went from being smeared on a door handle and not killing 2 victims to killing a homeless junkie four months later? Do you want to buy a bridge?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by zocalo on Monday July 09 2018, @02:26PM (1 child)
Unless we find out exactly what Sturgess and Rowley found, and what they may have done with it once they did, I'd say it's certainly at least *possible* they found the original source container, then opened it to find a lethal dose of Novichok. We also have no information on the relative health of the Skripals and Sturgess/Rowley prior to exposure - it's also entirely possible that Sturgess simply wasn't up to fighting off even a deteriorated dose of Novichok. Besides, the UK Government's current theory is basically that there is a some other source of Novichok that could have survived for at *least* four months since it was issued for deployment lurking somewhere in the Salisbury countryside; even if that was part of some elaborate smear campaign, surely there's a better and less expensive way of doing that which doesn't entail the expense and resources of the search (faked or not) that must now happen to ensure the container or whatever isn't accidentally found by anyone else - like just announcing that the container had been found, for instance?
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @04:16PM
A nerve agent many times more deadly than VX [theguardian.com] kills someone 9 days after exposure? Meanwhile we're supposed to believe not only that the agent was carried by a Russian government assassin in non-binary form but also that deployment did not immediately kill the intended target? The head of the OPCW told NYT that 50-100 mg (initially misquoted as 50-100g) were used in the Skripal attack. A nerve agent, over five times as toxic as VX at five to ten times the lethal dose of VX and the intended target was released from hospital after 2 months?
(Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @03:31PM
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2163502-what-are-novichok-nerve-agents-and-did-russia-do-it/ [newscientist.com]
https://pursuit.unimelb.edu.au/articles/the-science-behind-novichok [unimelb.edu.au]
In march "they" didnt seem to know how long it persisted. Now "they" say it can "persist for years". What is this based on, actual experiments? Also why wasnt this guy warning people about the persistence when he was interviewed earlier? It seems like a crucial detail.
https://www.rferl.org/a/novichok-creator-predicts-origin-of-skripal-poison-will-remain-a-mystery/29182827.html [rferl.org]
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @11:47AM
Seems [commonspace.scot] legit [moonofalabama.org]
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @03:00PM (2 children)
I'll start with what I currently think is the best source of info on the Skripal stuff: http://syriapropagandamedia.org/ [syriapropagandamedia.org] A research group created to research propaganda use in the Syria conflict, they apparently took an interest in this story and have some working documents on it: http://syriapropagandamedia.org/working-papers/briefing-note-update-on-the-salisbury-poisonings [syriapropagandamedia.org]
For the current development
What we know:
Someone died from a Novichok chemical agent.
What we don't know:
Everything else.
I hereby propose my own new theory. Someone at Porton Down chemical weapons lab got bored from never being able to "test" it on real people. She picked some targets where it was plausible it would not backtrack to herself. 4 months later the initial rush and media attention has faded and so she needs a new rush and new victims.
This theory is as feasible as any other I've heard and has at least as much evidence supporting it.
For what it's worth, I hope the affected people get better and the families get to find out the real truth some day.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @03:44PM
This second 'attack' reminds me a lot of Kurt Saxon's advice from the PMJB on testing poisons.
'The best subject is a wino. In every city there are hundreds of winos sleeping out in nests in vacant lots, abandoned houses, under bridges etc.
It's very easy to find such nests. They are usually made up of flattened cardboard boxes and newspapers and littered with wine bottles.
Put the dose you want to test in a half full fifth bottle of sweet wine.
Then tuck it in the nest where the wino will be sure to find it. he will just think another wino hid it there.
If the nest has a dead wino in it the next morning you've figured out the right dose.
If both the nest and bottle is empty, it's back to the old drawing board. Try increasing the dosage.'
Of course, he does follow that up with
'I was going to test poisons myself in this way. Then I realised I would probably wipe out half the Eureka City Council.
Even so, they deserve it, since they all voted to put sodium fluoride in the city's drinking water.'
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @04:04PM
That link is pretty good. Infinitely better than what normally passes as journalism.