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posted by chromas on Wednesday July 11 2018, @08:40AM   Printer-friendly
from the consequences-will-never-be-the-same dept.

From The Register:

India has warned Facebook-owned messaging service WhatsApp to do something about abuse of its service that has led to murders.

A July 3rd statement from the nation's Ministry of Electronics & IT says "Instances of lynching of innocent people have been noticed recently because of large number of irresponsible and explosive messages filled with rumours and provocation are being circulated on WhatsApp."

"Deep disapproval of such developments has been conveyed to the senior management of the WhatsApp and they have been advised that necessary remedial measures should be taken to prevent proliferation of these fake and at times motivated/sensational messages," the statement adds. "The Government has also directed that spread of such messages should be immediately contained through the application of appropriate technology."

The statement points out that rumours aren't WhatsApp's fault, saying the service has been "abused by some miscreants who resort to provocative messages which lead to spread of violence."

But the nation's government isn't letting the platform off easily as the statement ends as follows:

The Government has also conveyed in no uncertain terms that WhatsApp must take immediate action to end this menace and ensure that their platform is not used for such malafide activities.


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  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:16AM (10 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:16AM (#705643)

    If online social network existed a few hundred years ago in the West, you would have a surge in duels ending fatally, much more violent riots, "honor killings" etc.

    My point is that easy-going culture of contemporary West is what made social networks concept possible in first place. It is not compatible with every existing culture and every existing value system.

    Free speech, including frank opinions, slander and ridicule, can exist only where words alone are not taken seriously and given too much weight.

    We generally don't consider "I don't like you" as an equivalent to "I have intention to kill you eventually", but in some cultures showing a discontent about someone may get you on someone's "People I need to preemptively self-defend from until they are dead" list.

    • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:59AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:59AM (#705649)

      We generally don't consider "I don't like you" as an equivalent to "I have intention to kill you eventually"

      In Millennialspeak, "I literally want to kill myself" means "I am slightly upset by something I just saw on social media".

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by cubancigar11 on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:59AM (2 children)

      by cubancigar11 (330) on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:59AM (#705650) Homepage Journal

      I don't think so.

      First and foremost, people do get killed for speaking odd things in USA. In fact, in the wake of 911 people got killed for wearing turbans, and you WILL get killed for praising Osama bin Laden for example in Texas etc.c

      No the issue is the presence of a weak Indian state.

      See, a strong state is not synonymous with tyrannical state. What I mean to say is that India, for it being a very poor country, doesn't actually have enough police force. There are large swathes of land where police hasn't entered in decades. Huge population doesn't help either. Guess what has penetrated that area? 4G and WhatsApp. So when miscreants propagate some funny-little "meme" which says that "beware of foreigners they are roaming around and kidnapping children", normal people get anxious. What's abnormal is that they take matter into own hands, because they know there is no other hope for security or justice.

      This phenomenon never gets reported in the West, but the mere presence of police and the idea that judiciary will mostly correctly find innocents, well, innocent is incredibly important. In fact, the industrial revolution of Britain was predicated on the improvements in corporate law that made it is easy to hold someone responsible for breaching a contract.

      A weak or non-existent state such as India holds only one power - that it controls a huge market, and so it can flex its muscles on businessmen who want to do business there.

      • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @02:36PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @02:36PM (#705742)

        The US judiciary probably doesn't find most innocents, only about 5% of charged people actually see trial. The other 95% of the people plea bargain for lesser charges after the prosecution stacks up every possible charge in an effort to force a defendant to agree to a plea bargain. What's worse, is that you don't have a legal right to an attorney until arraignment at which point you may have already fucked yourself over. And the attorney you get doesn't need to be good, they just have to have a license to practice law.

        This whole notion that we get it right most of the time is laughable, we even have a legal term for people that plead guilty without believing that they are guilty, it's an Alford Plea.

        • (Score: 4, Informative) by cubancigar11 on Wednesday July 11 2018, @02:49PM

          by cubancigar11 (330) on Wednesday July 11 2018, @02:49PM (#705748) Homepage Journal

          Yes, and this is revelation you should hang on to. The actual job of Judiciary is not to get criminals, it is make sure people think that criminals will be taken care of so they can calm down and continue plowing ahead for civilization to continue. This is what I mean by strong/weak state.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @10:50AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @10:50AM (#705661)

      > but in some cultures showing a discontent about someone may get you on someone's "People I need to preemptively self-defend from until they are dead" list.

      You realize you just literally described 75 years of US foreign policy, right ?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @05:26PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @05:26PM (#705819)
        Doesn't sound too different from US cop policy too...
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @04:02PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @04:02PM (#705780)

      If online social network existed a few hundred years ago in the West, you would have a surge in duels ending fatally, much more violent riots, "honor killings" etc.

      Most definitely. What is preventing this in the West now is the assurance of swift punishment to the perpetrator if he acts on his whims.
      If a village of redheads gets exterminated in East Bumfuck, India because a blackhead said that his ricefield was cursed because of a redhead's evil eye, the onus lies on the police to enforce the peace and not for WhatsApp to get into censorship.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by bitstream on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:07PM (2 children)

      by bitstream (6144) on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:07PM (#705932) Journal

      Make devices requiring some kind of minimum IQ level and wisdom. That ought to weed out the chaff.
      Earlier this was accomplished by requiring technical skill and insight to even access electronic networks.

      As the saying goes.. If you make something easy only idiots will use it.

      • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @10:51PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @10:51PM (#705970)

        Do you want to lose all the libcon users round here? Cause that is one sure way to do iso.

        • (Score: 2) by bitstream on Thursday July 12 2018, @12:26AM

          by bitstream (6144) on Thursday July 12 2018, @12:26AM (#706011) Journal

          Some lifeforms just have to little IQ to be of any net contribution. So sometimes some purging makes sense.

  • (Score: 2, Disagree) by MostCynical on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:24AM (5 children)

    by MostCynical (2589) on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:24AM (#705645) Journal

    India tells gun manufacturers to stop producing guns that have been used to kill.

    --
    "I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
    • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:37AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:37AM (#705647)

      India tells people to stop producing people that have been used to kill.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @11:12AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @11:12AM (#705666)

        how did they stop muslims using children as suicide bombers?

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Wednesday July 11 2018, @10:14AM (1 child)

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 11 2018, @10:14AM (#705655) Journal

      FTFY, mate.
      I know you have a nickname to uphold, but you waste your time. S/N has much more qualified bullshiters than you'll ever be able to raise your level to. Better grab a XXXX or whatever you fancy. Cheers.

      The mob kicked and punched the victims and also hit them with stones and any object they could lay their hands on. A team from Pimpalner police station which arrived at the spot took the injured men to a gram panchayat office. However, more villagers gathered around the office, broke down the panchayat office’s door, assaulted the police team and clobbered the five men to death, sources said. Three policemen were said to be injured in the attack.

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
      • (Score: 4, Informative) by MostCynical on Wednesday July 11 2018, @10:51AM

        by MostCynical (2589) on Wednesday July 11 2018, @10:51AM (#705662) Journal

        Mild absurdism/logic extension overtaken by the ultimate absurd aspects of human nature (or at least mob-nature)

        Sad.

        --
        "I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @11:08AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @11:08AM (#705663)

      In other news, bullet makers in India have successfully been sued by the family members of people shot dead with their bullets</sarcasm>

  • (Score: 2) by Bill Evans on Wednesday July 11 2018, @10:12AM (2 children)

    by Bill Evans (1094) on Wednesday July 11 2018, @10:12AM (#705653) Homepage

    Malafide. Like bonafide, only different.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by AthanasiusKircher on Wednesday July 11 2018, @02:40PM (1 child)

      by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Wednesday July 11 2018, @02:40PM (#705744) Journal

      Yeah, except I'm not confident it's being used correctly here. It's almost exclusively a legal term (usually two words, mala fide), which means "in bad faith." It would be used in contexts where someone acts deceptively in a legal context, for example entering a contract that they had no intention of fulfilling.

      If the source quoted here means something like, "They are violating the user agreement by making threats -- which are prohibited by some EULA or whatever -- and thus their actions are mala fide," that could be correct usage. But from the excerpt, it seems like "malafide" may just be used here as a synonym for "bad" or perhaps "illegal," which it is not.

      • (Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Wednesday July 11 2018, @02:44PM

        by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Wednesday July 11 2018, @02:44PM (#705747) Journal

        I should also clarify that last sentence to say that in context, "malafide" may be being used as a sort of synonym for "fake" (as in the "fake" messages or information). Again, that's not quite the meaning (though it's closer). But it's tough to tell without further context...

  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by c0lo on Wednesday July 11 2018, @10:30AM

    by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 11 2018, @10:30AM (#705658) Journal

    who is using WhatsApp as a murder weapon? [scmp.com]

    The most dangerous of these consequences has been the rise in the lynching of innocent people because of fake news and rumours disseminated on WhatsApp.
    ...
    While Indians are used to rumours, the WhatsApp stories are particularly potent because they reach people who have come to regard their smartphone as their primary source of information, rather than newspapers or TV news. As far as they are concerned, if a video is forwarded to them on WhatsApp, it must be true.
    ...
    The Indian Express newspaper, which has been investigating the app-fuelled lynchings, has found that the false stories all follow a pattern. They are set in areas where no previous case of child lifting has been suspected and the victims are usually strangers passing through the area.
    ...If the anger is sudden and spontaneous, the fake stories are not. Clearly, people with money and skills take part in creating the fake videos. In many cases, the footage used is sourced from all over the world. It is edited, manipulated and then spliced together to suggest that it is of recent local origin.

    WaPo [washingtonpost.com]

    As India’s government weighs what to do, local authorities are left to tackle fake news as best they can, issuing warnings and employing low-tech methods such as hiring street performers to visit villages to spread public awareness. One such “rumor buster” was killed by a mob Thursday in the eastern state of Tripura.

    gizdomo [gizmodo.com.au]

    WhatsApp said it has given group administrators the ability to decide who gets to send messages within a group and has made it easier for users to distinguish when a message has been forwarded, as the false messages are often spread that way.

    The company also announced a new initiative that will provide up to $US50,000 ($67,568) to independent researchers studying how misinformation and propaganda spread across social media platforms.

    As far as any sort of automated system that can weed out the hoax messages, which seems to be what India’s government was calling for, WhatsApp kicked the can on such efforts. Instead, the company said that dealing with the messages would require a unified effort for all parties involved rather just a technological solution.

    “We believe that false news, misinformation and the spread of hoaxes are issues best tackled collectively: By government, civil society and technology companies working together,” WhatsApp said in the letter, according to BuzzFeed.

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by sjames on Wednesday July 11 2018, @12:56PM

    by sjames (2882) on Wednesday July 11 2018, @12:56PM (#705692) Journal

    Or the police could track down the people creating the fake rumors designed to get people killed. Once one or two of them go down for murder (possibly mass murder), the rest will probably stop.

    After all, Whatsapp is not an anonymous messaging system.

  • (Score: 2) by DutchUncle on Wednesday July 11 2018, @12:59PM (1 child)

    by DutchUncle (5370) on Wednesday July 11 2018, @12:59PM (#705694)

    I concur with other posters discussing "mob justice" because people don't have faith in government, or in law enforcement or justice system; but many of these stories are not about reactions to actual offenses (or even exaggerated offenses), they're lynchings for no reason beyond "the crowd is doing it". The only reason I can imagine for participating in these mob killings is "If I don't join in, the mob could turn on me next."

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @02:40PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @02:40PM (#705745)

      That's probably the main part of it. But, even in the US this kind of thing happens, just usually not to the same extent any more. It used to be fairly common in the US a hundred years ago with many thousands of people being lynched.

      It does still happen today, although not commonly, just this week a 91 year old Mexican man visiting the US was brutally beaten by a woman and several men after the woman claimed that he was trying to abduct her child.

      Lesson there is never trust a woman in a situation like this. Call 911 and let the police sort things out, do not go around beating the crap out of people because of something that you heard, civilized countries are supposed to be better than that. And same goes for India, it's supposed to be civilized enough not to engage in this sort of mob vigilante " justice."

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by inertnet on Wednesday July 11 2018, @01:26PM (2 children)

    by inertnet (4071) on Wednesday July 11 2018, @01:26PM (#705707) Journal

    I don't see how WhatsApp could do what they ask.

    But WhatsApp could probably easily find out where those messages originated. It certainly would help if creators of mob inciting messages would be held responsible.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @05:09PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @05:09PM (#705802)

      It doesn't matter that it's not rationally possible for WhatsApp to implement the proposal.

      This is a part of the big push for censorship by Western oligarchs. The idea of "fake news" is also a part of that push. That push is the only reason we're hearing about it.

      The elites know that the working class is beginning to organize, first in many countries, and then eventually the working class will see the logic of organizing internationally. I cannot say whether this will actually result in Trotskyist (wswswsws/International Committee of the Fourth International) goal being met, but the workers are beginning to fight back against the theft of wealth by the elites. The only way the working class can be contained is if pervasive censorship, not unlike in China, is implemented in Western countries.

      The strategy being pursued includes articles like this one that are designed partly to put Westerners into a white savior mindset (see comments above), though mostly it is similar to the coverage in the mainstream media, particularly Washington Post and New York Times, demonizing the alt-right as the sole target of the censorship. (Don't get me wrong. I saw a picture earlier today taken at the NATO conference and I was laughing my ass off--when I get home I think I'll add the caption "So ronery." Trump is a disgrace. That does not mean that Clinton would not have been dangerous.) The only major difference I can find between what Trump is doing with tariffs and what TPP/TTIP/TISA would have done is that Trump is alienating the EU whereas TPP/TTIP/TISA would have created closer ties to the EU.

      Trump is being held up as the ultimate scare tactic to make us fall in line and support the censorship of "fake news."

      So we are meant to be sorely afraid of "fake news," rumors and hearsay. What is fake news? Common Dreams. wswswswswsws. Alternet. Many anti-capitalist and left-wing oppositional viewpoints. If internet censorship akin to China's happens, how else might the working class organize, which at that point might include some of our Second Amendment People (maybe, probably... it could be the case that the R team's complete ineffectiveness against Trump in the primaries was because the elites are hoping that they can keep our Second Amendment People stuck in the right-wing authoritarian follower mindset, unable to question anything their designated right-wing authoritarian leader says... disclaimers... I'm a Second Amendment Person... the ctrl-left is also a right-wing authoritarian movement)? Well, the working class would have to turn to rumors and hearsay, forms of organization that can happen without an electronic global communications network.

      What's interesting about India is that there seems to be a growing Trotskyist movement in Tamil Nadu [wikipedia.org] (a state in southern India, on the east coast), which wswswswswsws covers every now and then.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:21PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:21PM (#705939)

        exactly! this is just propaganda for censorship and control of the infonet and netizens. when i hear some government parasite claiming "innocents are being killed from fake news" i hear "some scumbags are finally getting what they deserve and the government is trying to prevent it" because "who's next, government officials? ohh the horror!"

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by tangomargarine on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:15PM (1 child)

    by tangomargarine (667) on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:15PM (#705887)

    People need to take themselves a hell of a lot less seriously.

    "Instances of lynching of innocent people have been noticed recently because of large number of irresponsible and explosive messages filled with rumours and provocation are being circulated on WhatsApp."

    Seeing that this is India we're talking about, I'm assuming this is because somebody's religious or cultural heritage was talked about in a less-than-respectful way.

    This is 2018. We're supposed to be past the whole "start a war because that guy across the river insulted our queen" thing.

    --
    "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 12 2018, @05:04PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 12 2018, @05:04PM (#706272)

      Well the US started a war over tea. TEA!

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