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posted by takyon on Wednesday July 11 2018, @03:00PM   Printer-friendly
from the there-are-no-tech-jobs dept.

The economy of the San Francisco Bay Area has grown at an annual rate of 4.3% over the last 3 years, which is nearly double that of the rest of the USA. With a "GDP" of $748B, the Bay Area would be the 18th largest economy in the world if it were a country; between the Netherlands and Switzerland. Overall employment grew by 26%, largely driven by tech jobs.


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  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @03:13PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @03:13PM (#705755)

    But how much of that "growth" is due to the overactive real estate and rental markets?

  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @03:23PM (90 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @03:23PM (#705759)

    Meanwhile, San Francisco is becoming the homeless, feces/needles on the street capital of the USA. I like parts of San Francisco but the place is becoming a literal shithole that happens to have some very nice bars. Oh, and restaurants can no longer afford to pay wait staff so there's a nice do-it-yourself attitude and plenty of permanently empty commercial space from places shutting down.

    • (Score: 0, Troll) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday July 11 2018, @03:31PM (89 children)

      by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Wednesday July 11 2018, @03:31PM (#705765) Homepage Journal

      Welcome to the fate of every city that unthinkingly votes D sooner or later. While "looking out for the little guy" sounds good on paper, handouts only arguably help today; over the long term they cause nothing but harm. If you want the poor to not be so poor, you have to help them get in a position that they can raise themselves up. You cannot affect their status long term, only they can.

      --
      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 4, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @03:42PM (9 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @03:42PM (#705773)

        While "looking out for the little guy" sounds good on paper, handouts only arguably help today; over the long term they cause nothing but harm.

        Give a man some code and he will compile for a day. Teach a man to code and he will weaken the project upon which he works as well as the overall security of the world as we know it.

        • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday July 11 2018, @04:11PM (8 children)

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Wednesday July 11 2018, @04:11PM (#705783) Homepage Journal

          You know, I'd never considered that angle. I now modify my position to explicitly exclude raising idiots to coding or any other line of work that demands intelligence.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @05:47PM (7 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @05:47PM (#705834)

            The Bar Associations prevent idiots from becoming Lawyers (stereotypes notwithstanding). Medical associations prevent idiots from become Doctors. See also Engineers.

            How can we accomplish this for coding in the absence of a professional organization?

            • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:27PM (2 children)

              by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:27PM (#705848) Homepage Journal

              How about a customer-searchable database with job satisfaction ratings? We are tech guys after all.

              --
              My rights don't end where your fear begins.
              • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:56PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:56PM (#705870)

                Um ... based on my experience the customers aren't qualified to define their own requirements, let alone determine the quality of my code.

              • (Score: 2) by jelizondo on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:25PM

                by jelizondo (653) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:25PM (#705894) Journal

                Of course we are tech guys... The best of us will simply hack the ratings... So there goes your idea.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:36PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:36PM (#705857)

              Make open source the standard, whether through legal, market, or social pressures, and get people educated about the fact that coding is akin to writing laws or designing buildings; without thoughtful design and rigorous testing it will fail in ways that may be disastrous. Start a consulting firm that will check a prospective hire's previous work and give an opinion about the whether they are up to snuff.

            • (Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Wednesday July 11 2018, @11:31PM (2 children)

              by fido_dogstoyevsky (131) <axehandleNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Wednesday July 11 2018, @11:31PM (#705981)

              The Bar Associations prevent idiots from becoming Lawyers (stereotypes notwithstanding). Medical associations prevent idiots from become Doctors. See also Engineers.

              How can we accomplish this for coding in the absence of a professional organization?

              Make "Software Engineer" a title protected by whatever your equivalent of the Institution of Engineers is called?

              --
              It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
              • (Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Wednesday July 11 2018, @11:34PM (1 child)

                by fido_dogstoyevsky (131) <axehandleNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Wednesday July 11 2018, @11:34PM (#705982)

                We need an "edit" facility.

                Forgot to add: shouldn't be too difficult as electronic and communications engineers are already recognised as such.

                --
                It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
                • (Score: 2) by canopic jug on Thursday July 12 2018, @08:26AM

                  by canopic jug (3949) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 12 2018, @08:26AM (#706130) Journal

                  Forgot to add: shouldn't be too difficult as electronic and communications engineers are already recognised as such.

                  In a perfect world it would not be difficult to bring into alignment. However, there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of poseurs dorking around with VisualBasic, DotNet, C#, Windoze, and other garbage getting in the way of forming a self-policing professional society. They are not just warm bodies, (numbers count for a lot [soylentnews.org] especially when empire building) they have about as much money as real technical people. Money equals influence. Worse, their managers being in on their scam will back them with their mass and money. More money equals more influence. So you will need a real way to deliberately and decisively cull the microsofters even before the process begins. Otherwise we end up exactly where we are now but with them even further entrenched.

                  --
                  Money is not free speech. Elections should not be auctions.
      • (Score: 2) by Weasley on Wednesday July 11 2018, @03:49PM (48 children)

        by Weasley (6421) on Wednesday July 11 2018, @03:49PM (#705776)

        If you want the poor to not be so poor, you have to help them get in a position that they can raise themselves up.

        You mean raise yourself up because you got food stamps or welfare? What do the R's endorse that enable people to raise themselves up?

        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @04:17PM (24 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @04:17PM (#705784)

          What do the R's endorse that enable people to raise themselves up?

          Personal responsibility.

          • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @05:11PM (6 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @05:11PM (#705803)

            I tried eating personal responsibility but I got malnourished. Then I tried using it to pay for rent but that didn't work. I put it on my resume but that didn't work either.

            • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:29PM (5 children)

              by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:29PM (#705849) Homepage Journal

              Nah, you didn't have any to begin with or it would have pushed your ass out the door every single day looking for a (better) job.

              --
              My rights don't end where your fear begins.
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:59PM (3 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:59PM (#705873)

                Not everybody has the skill (or ability to learn a skill) that will land them a "better job". Also, employers are often looking for the cheapest candidate that appears to be "not unqualified" rather than the best qualified (and more expensive) candidate.

                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday July 12 2018, @02:45AM (2 children)

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 12 2018, @02:45AM (#706066) Journal

                  Not everybody has the skill (or ability to learn a skill) that will land them a "better job".

                  Well, personal responsibility is one of those skills/abilities that you have to learn.

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 12 2018, @03:35AM (1 child)

                    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 12 2018, @03:35AM (#706078)

                    Like cramming your head up your butt? Thank god they aren't mutually required, I like being responsible but not big on butts meeting faces.

                    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday July 12 2018, @04:50AM

                      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 12 2018, @04:50AM (#706103) Journal
                      Well, you have to wonder about someone who thinks personal responsibility is a pretty immutable trait like having red hair.
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:37PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:37PM (#705899)

                I tried eating personal responsibility but I got malnourished... I put it on my resume but that didn't work either.

                Maybe if he had as good reading comprehension as you did, he cud getz a jerb. Doubt it.

          • (Score: 5, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday July 11 2018, @05:30PM (11 children)

            by DeathMonkey (1380) on Wednesday July 11 2018, @05:30PM (#705823) Journal

            Personal responsibility.

            When you elect a guy who blames literally everything on everybody else then you no longer get to play that card.

            • (Score: -1, Troll) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:29PM (9 children)

              by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:29PM (#705850) Homepage Journal

              We elected Obama again? Shit, I need to quit drinking.

              --
              My rights don't end where your fear begins.
              • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:45PM (4 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:45PM (#705864)

                We elected Obama again? Shit, I need to quit drinking.

                Translation of the parent post: "I know you are but what am I?"

                Argumentation up to the thoughtful level of a five-year-old.

                • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:02PM (3 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:02PM (#705878)

                  Argumentation up to the thoughtful level of a five-year-old.

                  Would that be a five year old who has been forcibly separated from their parents, and must represent themselves in immigration court?

                  • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:41PM (1 child)

                    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:41PM (#705901)

                    Could be worse. They could have Giuliani for a lawyer.

                    • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 12 2018, @01:05AM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 12 2018, @01:05AM (#706031)

                      Something seems wrong when five year olds have to show more personal responsibility than our blame everyone but me president.

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 12 2018, @04:53AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 12 2018, @04:53AM (#706104)

                    The five year old slave? Yah I am fine with verifying that is the parent and not a smuggler. Are you ok with the 10% of child border crossings that are actually child smuggling? #stopchildslavery.

              • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:51PM (2 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:51PM (#705867)

                It sounds like you are resorting to insults and dismissing valid complaints because you have no counter retorts, but in the case you were actually serious and don't know about Trump's scapegoating and avoiding personal responsibility...

                Off the top of my head, what is Trump's explanation about...
                1) No border wall
                2) No healthcare reforms
                3) Ongoing losses of manufacturing jobs
                4) Forcible separation of children from their parents (although in his defense, he did eventually sign an executive order to stop that... eventually... kicking and screaming the whole way... never admitting it was the policy of his administration to do it in the first place...)

                I'm sure if I actually did some research, I could actually find at least 10 more examples.

                • (Score: 4, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:07PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:07PM (#705882)

                  > Off the top of my head, what is Trump's explanation about...

                  Those obstructing Democrats, of course. I mean, Republicans have absolute control of only all three branches of government, including both houses of Congress. You can't expect them to govern with such a thin margin!

                • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:34PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:34PM (#705896)

                  Uzzie is a troll, he just wsnts to get a rise out of people. One of the top 10 worst users on this site.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:42PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:42PM (#705903)

                Or quit being so stupid.

            • (Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:45PM

              by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:45PM (#705865) Homepage Journal

              I said to Congress, I will take the heat. I will take all the heat you want to give me and take the heat off the Democrats and the Republicans.

          • (Score: 4, Touché) by aristarchus on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:43PM (4 children)

            by aristarchus (2645) on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:43PM (#705904) Journal

            Personal responsibility.

            Allow me to translate: "white privilege". There, plausibly feasible now, isn't it?

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @08:11PM (3 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @08:11PM (#705908)

              Hold on! I was reading the submissions queue, and for a brief moment I wondered if perhaps you had seen why (including intersectional) identity politics is wrong!

              • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @08:54PM (2 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @08:54PM (#705926)

                Ah yes, cause those poor persecuted people are really drowning in privilege. Last I heard the only upside for them with "identity politics" is that it has become REALLY problematic to be a bigoted dipshit.

                I'll grant you affirmative action as a real instance of pro-minority discrimination, but that is hardly the massive amount needed to justify you "muh oppressions" people. Besides, that was discrimination trying to fix an existing problematic discrimination, so pardon me if I can't get too worked up over your self-righteousness.

                Besides, Conservatives have been doing identity politics forever. Catholics are looked down upon and had a hard time getting into office, and if you're atheist just forget it. Republicans are pretty seriously pro-white with a rabid minority that are actually KKK members/sympathizers.

                Hmmm, gee, which crowd should we be focusing on? /s

                • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @10:21PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @10:21PM (#705965)

                  Perhaps I mistook Aristarchus' post up there.

                  Besides, Conservatives have been doing identity politics forever.

                  Submission I reference [soylentnews.org].

                  I felt this was very insightful. Cynthia Levine-Rasky writing for The Conversation, The 100-year-old rallying cry of ‘white genocide’ [theconversation.com]:

                  Believing their dominance as a white “race” is threatened, along with their unearned entitlements and conferred dominance, extremist groups promote violence to achieve their desired end — a fictive nation of whiteness.

                  Their targets are not only racial, ethnic and religious minorities, but also sexual minorities and women. Why? Because power is not restricted to whiteness; it is accomplished intersectionally. In other words, whiteness wields maximum power when it intersects with masculinity and heteronormativity.

                  (Emphasis mine)

                  And as you mention, an additional intersectionality associated with power is Protestantism.

                  When one is in the working class, the intersectionality that dwarfs all others is economic class, which I do not believe is something mainstream liberals adequately recognize. I believe they are not sufficiently leftist.

                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday July 12 2018, @03:12AM

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 12 2018, @03:12AM (#706073) Journal

                  Last I heard the only upside for them with "identity politics" is that it has become REALLY problematic to be a bigoted dipshit.

                  Only if you're the wrong kind of bigoted dipshit.

        • (Score: 2, Interesting) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday July 11 2018, @04:29PM (22 children)

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Wednesday July 11 2018, @04:29PM (#705788) Homepage Journal

          Absolutely not. Food stamps and welfare are handouts that do nothing whatsoever to alleviate poverty; they only make it slightly less onerous. Welfare in particular needs to go the fuck away. Until it does, poor women aren't ever going to say "oh hell no" every single time when some guy they met at a club wants to fuck them without a rubber and this badly needs to happen in urban areas in particular. Being raised by a single parent is very nearly a statistical guarantee of future poverty.

          Beats me, I'm not a Republican. What I endorse is whatever can be done without actually spending money to get people trained for non-barely-trained-monkey jobs. Tax credits for individuals, writeoffs for businesses if they get their employees trained and/or make time available to the employees for training, that sort of thing. For that matter, give someone the whole damned year off from taxes every seven years or greater if they're below median income and pass a useful trade school that year.

          We don't need people taking unskilled positions. Illegal immigrants being paid below minimum wage have depressed the unskilled labor market so badly that you can't make a living worth a damn at unskilled jobs anymore. I mean you were always going to be relatively poor but nowadays you're going to be dirt poor.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Snow on Wednesday July 11 2018, @04:38PM (10 children)

            by Snow (1601) on Wednesday July 11 2018, @04:38PM (#705792) Journal

            Tax credits for individuals for education doesn't help when:

            1) The individual is too poor to be paying taxes anyways, so the credit is useless
            2) Doesn't have money to afford school in the first place.

            You would be better off subsidizing education much, much, much more than is currently being done.

            • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:32PM (9 children)

              by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:32PM (#705852) Homepage Journal

              You would be better off subsidizing education much, much, much more than is currently being done.

              Ha! That's a joke, right?

              When you subsidize something, you get more of it. We do not want more of the utterly worthless pile of shit that our public education system has become. Nor do we want more of what goes on in our universities. Hows about we take every last dime from the piles slated to them and pay for trade school scholarships?

              --
              My rights don't end where your fear begins.
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:42PM (3 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:42PM (#705861)

                that our public education system has become.

                No, that it always was. It was always about rote memorization, indoctrination, and creating worker drones. It was based on the Prussian system, after all.

                • (Score: 3, Interesting) by HiThere on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:56PM

                  by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:56PM (#705871) Journal

                  Not always. It used to be largely religious indoctrination and, if you were wealthy, foreign languages.

                  --
                  Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
                • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday July 12 2018, @02:38AM (1 child)

                  by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 12 2018, @02:38AM (#706059) Journal

                  Try 'operand conditioning', see what Google returns to you.

                  --
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 12 2018, @06:55PM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 12 2018, @06:55PM (#706309)

                    Did you mean operant conditioning?

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:36PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:36PM (#705897)

                Another clueless soundbite of "wisdom". Its a good rhing you were born in the 21st or youd have been stuck mucking pens. Or worse.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @11:46PM (2 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @11:46PM (#705989)

                Hey, dipshit. When you go to the hospital for treatment, do you call it "subsidizing" your life? We don't want to keep some sickly dumbass alive any longer than necessary. 'Cause if you subsidize something, you get more of it. Quit using a soundbite you heard in grade-school. It might of sounded impressive and wise when you where 16 yo but not now.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 12 2018, @03:39AM (1 child)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 12 2018, @03:39AM (#706079)

                  And one day we find out The Scuzzy Buzzy is really a pimply teenager and everything suddenly makes sense.

                  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday July 12 2018, @04:31AM

                    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Thursday July 12 2018, @04:31AM (#706096) Journal

                    He's a 40-something-year-old living in a roommate situation with his friend's ("friend's") kids and the highest pleasures in his life are fishing and pornography. He's a pimply teenager inside, if that's what you mean.

                    --
                    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
              • (Score: 3, Insightful) by canopic jug on Thursday July 12 2018, @08:34AM

                by canopic jug (3949) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 12 2018, @08:34AM (#706133) Journal

                When you subsidize something, you get more of it.

                True. One look at the US' privatized prison system tells us that. It is heavily subsidized and we get more and more prisons and prisoners in the system every year. Seriously, it costs less to send someone to college than to prison. While that would not work, something in between would. Maybe a peace time draft with no deferments or exceptions. Those that can't or won't join the military can work out double their time in something else. Part of the budget would have to be allocated to dealing with the fuckups and shitbirds. But we're doing that now anyway, just in the most expensive way possible, which is privatized prison.

                --
                Money is not free speech. Elections should not be auctions.
          • (Score: 5, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday July 11 2018, @05:32PM (3 children)

            by DeathMonkey (1380) on Wednesday July 11 2018, @05:32PM (#705825) Journal

            I think states like California should stop giving welfare to states like Oklahoma.

            • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:33PM (2 children)

              by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:33PM (#705854) Homepage Journal

              Good, we agree then.

              --
              My rights don't end where your fear begins.
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:00PM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:00PM (#705928)

                Cut off the midwest since they don't like our policies, would get some sadistic pleasure from watching uggie's state go bankrupt.

                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday July 12 2018, @03:14AM

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 12 2018, @03:14AM (#706075) Journal
                  Indeed. Please don't throw us into that briar patch.
          • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:06PM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:06PM (#705881)

            Until it does, poor women aren't ever going to say "oh hell no" every single time when some guy they met at a club wants to fuck them without a rubber and this badly needs to happen in urban areas in particular.

            Of course the well-to-do women can afford an abortion at a private clinic and don't have to spend a day on a round-trip (possibly out-of-state) just to deal with an unexpected pregnancy.

            News flash: men are just as (if not more) responsible for these "fuck them without a rubber" encounters and the resulting pregnancies.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @08:53PM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @08:53PM (#705925)

              Men aren't stuck with the baby after those one night stands though.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 12 2018, @03:33AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 12 2018, @03:33AM (#706077)

                Abortion and birth control must be provided free of charge.

                I am consistently flabbergasted by the number of women in flyover country who disagree with that.

                One thing to contemplate before I get modded to -1. Opposed to those women are other women who have equally strange ideas about masculinity and femininity. I read on a bumper sticker that if men became pregnant, abortion would be a sacred right, or something to that effect. That fails to appreciate how right-wing authoritarianism works on the followers. Consider our personal responsibility crowd. Consider the defense of routine male infant genital mutilation. I could easily see in that world abortion resulting in first degree murder charges; even the ctrl-left would agree with such a legal situation on the grounds of their sex-negativity.

                Some women have described it to me as, "If you don't wanna get pregnant, close your legs!" Personal responsibility!

                However, I must be cautious about extrapolating the generally held attitudes found in alt-right authoritarian followers (not to imply that ctrl-left authoritarian followers are any better). It is difficult to anticipate the position an authoritarian leader may take on any issue. In fact, as we can observe, authoritarian followers have exceptionally high thresholds for cognitive dissonance. Sometimes, authoritarian leaders may take multiple positions, even if those positions are revealed to be mutually conflicting. (Altemeyer)

                So it could very well be the case that the bumper sticker was correct (if only we had an Einstein-Rosen-Podolsky bridge to slide us over to that reality and find out), but I hope I have demonstrated a bit of reasoning to suspect that such sentiments are not correct.

          • (Score: 5, Informative) by Thexalon on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:29PM (2 children)

            by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:29PM (#705943)

            You seem to be unaware that birth rates are declining dramatically among unmarried women [cdc.gov], and a lot of those births to unmarried women are to committed couples that either can't afford or choose not to get married. And on top of that, the biggest drops are among black and Hispanic people, who are probably the people you're thinking of when you complain about "urban areas".

            Your image of an irresponsible welfare mother dragging around 5 kids or something is about 30 years out of date.

            Don't you hate it when facts get in the way of a good story?

            --
            The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
            • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 12 2018, @01:42AM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 12 2018, @01:42AM (#706043)

              Furthermore the idea that a woman will say "Oh he'll no" without a welfare state is so beyond stupid if it were true we wouldn't be needing welfare in the first place. One look at poor countries without welfare like India and China is all you need to know that population growth happens more among poor people than rich. It is like having to debunk same arguments again and again.

              • (Score: 3, Interesting) by bootsy on Thursday July 12 2018, @01:45PM

                by bootsy (3440) on Thursday July 12 2018, @01:45PM (#706193)

                It is highly correlated with female literacy which to some extent follows how much money they have. That is, the richer you are the better educated you are.
                Girls who can read are far less likely give birth to children at a young age and usually have less children in total.

          • (Score: 2) by Pav on Thursday July 12 2018, @06:15AM

            by Pav (114) on Thursday July 12 2018, @06:15AM (#706121)

            Pffffhfhffhfhfhf... This guy thinks extreme poverty leads to abstinence. From Biafra to India to the Irish potato famine I think you'll find poverty raises the birth rate, with it only trailing off again due to starvation-induced female infertility at the bitter end. If you want to get rid of the welfare state you'll get the hellhole you deserve - something like 1980's Brazil, where death squads roamed the streets executing street kids, and the wealthy (who weren't particularly wealthy) hunkered down in their compounds because the rest of the population had decided their lives didn't matter either.

      • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @04:52PM (6 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @04:52PM (#705794)

        Problem with your observation is... the rest of the world. USA is about the furthest right-wing of the major Western nations. So all the others have more liberal government.

        Part of the problem is certain States (those big on taking responsibility) hand out 1-way tickets to homeless and mentally ill people in order to get them off their books. They send them to CA. Nice job.

        https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/20/bussed-out-america-moves-homeless-people-country-study [theguardian.com]

        • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @05:15PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @05:15PM (#705809)

          certain States hand out 1-way tickets to homeless and mentally ill people in order to get them off their books. They send them to CA.

          As does Mexico.

        • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @05:22PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @05:22PM (#705815)
        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:36PM (2 children)

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:36PM (#705856) Homepage Journal

          And? Their position relative to ours does not mean ours needs to shift any more than the USSR's relative to ours did. We decide what's good for us, nobody else.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:32PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:32PM (#705945)

            And apparently the majority in the US thinks that being a 1st world ahithole is the best path....

            Dumbass bird

          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by bob_super on Thursday July 12 2018, @01:31AM

            by bob_super (1357) on Thursday July 12 2018, @01:31AM (#706041)

            Do you usually punch your friends in the face when they try to give you advice ? That's essentially what the last two R administrations have been doing.
            The D administrations preferred the approach of big smiles and nods, while making it more socially acceptable to keep fucking said friends in the ass.
            Per the international reactions, they oddly seem to prefer the latter.

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday July 12 2018, @02:54AM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 12 2018, @02:54AM (#706068) Journal

          Problem with your observation is... the rest of the world. USA is about the furthest right-wing of the major Western nations.

          The "major Western nations" aren't the rest of the world and the US is quite populous in comparison to that small fraction of the world.

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by bob_super on Wednesday July 11 2018, @05:22PM (8 children)

        by bob_super (1357) on Wednesday July 11 2018, @05:22PM (#705814)

        I'm really confused by your argument ...
        What's happening in SF is pure unbridled capitalism: People with great-paying jobs are driving the prices up, and the crummy jobs are filled by people with ever-longer commutes (because domestic help living in the attic isn't in fashion anymore).
        "Poor" people protected by rent control would be instantly replaced by more tech guys, causing more long commutes for those who can afford it the least. SF, like Manhattan, is the epitome of capitalism, not some Democrat-caused Liberal dysfunction.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @05:25PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @05:25PM (#705818)

          City ordinances that prevent buildings taller than three stories isn't what I would describe as unbridled capitalism.

        • (Score: 1, Troll) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:39PM (4 children)

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:39PM (#705858) Homepage Journal

          You're looking through some industrial strength blinders if you think SF is a bastion of capitalism. Pay attention to everything not just what agrees with your preconceptions. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villany^W^W^Wsocialism and communism.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:09PM

            by bob_super (1357) on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:09PM (#705883)

            Sure, people talk and vote very very lefty.
            But they earn and spend like good capitalists.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:50PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:50PM (#705955)

            Speaking of blinders. Have you ever traveled outside your own state?

            • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday July 12 2018, @02:44AM

              by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 12 2018, @02:44AM (#706064) Journal

              He still can find catfishes there, he doesn't need to fly interstate ... yet.

              --
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
          • (Score: 2) by Whoever on Thursday July 12 2018, @06:00AM

            by Whoever (4524) on Thursday July 12 2018, @06:00AM (#706118) Journal

            You're looking through some industrial strength blinders if you think SF is a bastion of capitalism.

            Just where did all the wealth in SF come from if not capitalism?

            Please attempt to make a slight effort to be consistent when you espouse your ideology through your bombastic rants.

      • (Score: 4, Touché) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday July 11 2018, @05:27PM

        by DeathMonkey (1380) on Wednesday July 11 2018, @05:27PM (#705821) Journal

        Welcome to the fate of every city that unthinkingly votes D sooner or later.

        Their economy does really well?

        Don't worry, the R's are busy putting an end to that nonsense!

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:02PM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:02PM (#705838)

        And TMB with the stupid post of the day!

        Homeless come to SF in droves because the weather is nicer than many cities and I'm sure its quite a bit easier to beg for money.

        As for the feces problem, that is a massive failure by the city. They shut down all the public bathrooms so where else will the homeless do their business? Right between parked cars or dark alleys, fun stuff.

        Typical "fuck you got mine" attitude which specifically avoids the whole point of the programs. They help people get off the streets and get their lives back on track, so they are doing what you recommend yet you still need to trash liberal policies cause you're too narrow minded and blinded by ideology.

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:40PM (1 child)

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:40PM (#705860) Homepage Journal

          Sweety, SF is a city only for the haves and their pet bums. Everyone else is evicted.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:03PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:03PM (#705929)

            Darlin you just can't keep your reality straight can you? Must be from all that looking through the cracks of the closet door, hard to see more than a slim bit at a time.

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday July 12 2018, @02:56AM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 12 2018, @02:56AM (#706070) Journal

          Typical "fuck you got mine" attitude which specifically avoids the whole point of the programs. They help people get off the streets and get their lives back on track, so they are doing what you recommend yet you still need to trash liberal policies cause you're too narrow minded and blinded by ideology.

          Typical liberal city with a typical "fuck you got mine" attitude?

      • (Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:19PM (7 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:19PM (#705841)
        • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:43PM (5 children)

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:43PM (#705863) Homepage Journal

          Sigh, do I have to debunk things multiple times now?

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:10PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:10PM (#705884)

            Sigh, do I have to debunk things multiple times now?

            Tsk tsk. The burden of acting like an over-opinionated know-it-all douche.

          • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:03PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:03PM (#705930)

            "Generous Welfare Benefits Make People More Likelyy to Want to Work, not Less." has 1 TMB commentand "Study: Public Assistance Programs Lessen Poverty" has 0 TMB comments. We want more TMB comments.

            • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:38PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:38PM (#705951)

              We want more TMB comments.

              Speak for yourself, TYVM.

          • (Score: 5, Informative) by Thexalon on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:36PM

            by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:36PM (#705948)

            If you're going to claim you've debunked something, you need to present evidence that you're right and whatever you're debunking is wrong. So far in this discussion, you've provided no evidence whatsoever, only unsubstantiated (and frequently demonstrably untrue) statements. Ergo, you've debunked nothing.

            --
            The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
          • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:44PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:44PM (#705953)

            Lazy bastard, you almost never provide citations of any sort, just hot air.

            Plus seems only fair how frequently you repeat points that people have soundly refuted.

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday July 12 2018, @03:10AM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 12 2018, @03:10AM (#706072) Journal
          Notice that the first study doesn't actually "beg to differ". "Wanting to work" is not the same as having the life skills to work and a job.

          And the second study ignores that public assistance programs increase poverty as well as decrease it. For example, public pension schemes transfer wealth from young to old. So while the elderly are wealthier, the young are poorer. US Social Security is a classic example. Perhaps you're even one of the "millennials" complaining about how expensive everything is or how poor you are? Well, guess what public assistance programs helped make that happen. It's quite the list.
      • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:53PM

        by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 11 2018, @06:53PM (#705868) Journal

        This is due to a Supreme Court decision back in the last century which decided that local jurisdictions could not have a residency requirement for benefits. Any place that tries to be generous now faces the entire country showing up. I think they did this on purpose to cause a race to the bottom.

        --
        Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
  • (Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Wednesday July 11 2018, @03:33PM (1 child)

    by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Wednesday July 11 2018, @03:33PM (#705767) Homepage Journal

    Tremendous growth in our Silicon Valley & S.F. Because of me. And our LOYAL Republicans in Congress. We did the BIGGEST TAX CUT in history. Beautiful signature by me on that one. We gave back $48 billion to Apple already -- big bonuses for everybody at Apple -- and there's much much more to come. Apple is making $350 billion in investments in the USA. Because of me.

    Tremendous progress. But, Californians, you can really make the Silicon Valley & S.F. economy EXPLODE INCREDIBLY with your vote in November. Vote JOHN H. COX for Governor. Vote for our beautiful California Republicans in your Legislature. High Tax, High Crime and crime breeding Dems are dragging down the California economy. Republicans will CUT TAXES and get VERY TOUGH on Crime!

    And Vote YES on the Calif. Three States Initiative. The 3 Californias initiative, very smart idea. And badly failing High Crime areas -- otherwise known as L.A. -- are dragging down the S.V. & S.F. economy. Split California, let the failing parts fail completely. And let the high soaring parts soar much much higher!!!

  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @03:48PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @03:48PM (#705774)

    The diversity of the Bay Area economy should hopefully lead to more resilience in the next downturn

    More delusion from a bankrupt city that thinks enlarging it's tax base through mass-immigration is going to cover over $10 billion deficit in health and pension liabilities. Residents of the shithole [rt.com] need to lay off the jenkem [wikipedia.org]

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by NewNic on Wednesday July 11 2018, @05:28PM (7 children)

    by NewNic (6420) on Wednesday July 11 2018, @05:28PM (#705822) Journal

    This article is the perfect example.

    News reports: SF Bay Area Economy is doing great.

    SoylentNews posters: SF Bay Area is bankrupt.

    The only way that many posters here can justify their regressive ideology is to deny reality. Deny that the liberal policies of CA actually create more wealth, while their authoritarian right-wing policies ("personal responsibility") drive people into poverty.

    Classic!

    --
    lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by takyon on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:01PM

      by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:01PM (#705877) Journal

      Most of the posters talked about the homeless problem, which is real and obvious. The strong economic growth is in part a cause of the chronic homelessness due to high rents:

      Homelessness in the San Francisco Bay Area [wikipedia.org]

      The number of the individuals in poverty in the San Francisco Bay Area grew from 573,333 (8.6%) in 2000 to 668,876 (9.7%) in 2006-2010. While poverty rates vary greatly across the SF Bay area, in 2015, the Silicon Valley Institute for Regional Studies published that the poverty rate was 11.3%, having a slight downward trend from 12%, however, it was still above the historical average rate of 9%.

      Street cleaners shed new light on San Francisco homeless problem [abc7news.com]

      San Francisco wants custody of chronic homeless [abc7news.com]

      Citywide measure to end, prevent homelessness gathers 28K signatures in San Francisco [ktvu.com]

      And what do you know, the AC poster who said the city is "bankrupt" is right about SF having billions in debt:

      Report: San Francisco is $16,400 in Debt for Every Taxpayer [truthinaccounting.org] (2016)

      https://www.statedatalab.org/state_data_and_comparisons/city/sanfrancisco [statedatalab.org] (2018)

      Is the site the joke, or are you the joke?

      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
    • (Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:04PM

      by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:04PM (#705880) Homepage Journal

      I think Governor Brown does a very poor job running California. I call it High Tax, High Crime California. But it's also High Poverty California. They have the highest taxes in the United States. And they have the highest Poverty Rate, according to my Census Bureau. HIGHEST PERCENTAGE IN POVERTY. The absolute highest. Even when you take into account the Cost of Living. Very expensive to live in California. Believe me, I know. I have a beautiful house in Beverly Hills. And beautiful golf course in Palos Verdes, Trump National Los Angeles. The place is totally out of control. And the poorest of all -- biggest biggest percent in poverty -- is the Illegals. Jerry Brown and California are not looking for safety and security along their very porous Border. He cannot come to terms for the National Guard to patrol and protect the Border. The high crime rate will only get higher. You have sanctuary cities where you have criminals living in the sanctuary cities. Much wanted Wall in San Diego already started! foxnews.com/opinion/2017/09/21/liberal-california-fails-at-fighting-poverty-conservative-texas-succeeds.html [foxnews.com] breitbart.com/california/2017/09/14/california-continues-to-lead-america-in-poverty [breitbart.com]

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:14PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:14PM (#705886)

      It's complicated... that applies here as well. Case in point: Cancer causes people to use cell phones [xkcd.com]

      It's equally plausible that being an affluent area attracts more ambitious people, which in turn causes more affluence. A byproduct of this is more progressive politics which ironically is actually holding back a potentially even more successful economy there. (I don't think that's what's happening, but it is very possible.)

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by HiThere on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:19PM (1 child)

      by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:19PM (#705890) Journal

      Sorry, but the SF area has lots of problems. There are multiple reasons, but one of them is the high price of, well, everything, but especially places to live. SF is so expensive that the teachers and police, etc., live in outlying areas, and the commute jams are horrible. (You need to commute from a long way off to get decent prices. Some people spend half as much time commuting as at work. Perhaps more.)

      Now this is partially geography. But only partially. It's partially rapid expansion. Much of the city being built on landfill, and thus not having good foundations for buildings is another fraction. And lots of housing that dates back to they days when there wasn't electricity and piped acetylene was used for lighting is another part of it. (I'm not sure what gas they used locally, but the fixtures can often be seen, rewired to hold electric wires...poorly.) And its partially the climate, never too hot and never too cold.

      So a lot of the city is made up of substandard housing, and the rest of it is new, and both are excessively expensive. (They aren't making any more land, and what's there is expensive, even the plots with substandard housing on them.)

      Now saying "substandard" is probably giving you the wrong idea. Much of it is still quite good...in a early 20th century sort of way. But those houses were put up when transportation was expensive, so they are jammed together in really small lots often with not enough space between them to insert a piece of paper. That's where the surviving "middle class" live. Others live in Victorian mansions that have been subdivided into many apartments. These have larger rooms, but they're apartments, with minimal kitchens, etc. And *expensive*. Then there are the places that haven't been maintained. This is where the poor live. Eventually they'll either be torn down to put up something modern (and expensive) or refurbished into something cheaper (but still expensive). The current residents will then be out on the street. This has already happened to many.

      Very few of these people, either the rich, the middle class, or the indigent, are natives of the area. Rising prices has caused most of those to leave. Some of the indigent have been there a long time, because they couldn't afford to leave, but more have come in from elsewhere. And the laws are so designed that local cities cannot give preference to residents. (Thanks to a vile Supreme Court decision...possibly the worse since Santa Clara County vs. Union Pacific, 1886.)

      --
      Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
      • (Score: 4, Interesting) by bitstream on Thursday July 12 2018, @01:07AM

        by bitstream (6144) on Thursday July 12 2018, @01:07AM (#706032) Journal

        Perhaps the real heading should be "The richest of San Francisco does really well and all the rest be damned" ? ;-)
        Looks good on the charts at least until the distribution is visualized.

        The crowded real estate market also boggles me. Wouldn't there be a point in which it would be cost effective to just select another spot for having offices and housing and move there collectively? or is it inertia and investment capital that prevents this? Or there's simply people preventing this to make a buck?

        The area indeed seems chaotic.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:27PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @07:27PM (#705895)

      SF Bay Area is bankrupt. [rstreet.org]

      The only way that many posters here can justify their regressive ideology is to deny reality. Deny that the liberal policies of CA actually create more wealth, while their authoritarian right-wing policies ("personal responsibility") drive people into poverty.

      The combination of high taxes, excessive regulations and crappy social conditions conspire to hollow out a local economy. High property prices...

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:52PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 11 2018, @09:52PM (#705957)

        Yet for some reason people keep wanting to go there! Only recently have the prices gotten high enough to prevent the influx. SF itself has also been changing its character so it has less and less cultural draw outside of tech, but still it is one of the most desirable locations. Is your envy peaking through or what? Maybe just simple ignorance?

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